#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2015-09-22

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stephg(also store updates aren't deletetable from the homescreen10:32
stephgmy internets go wibble, ignore me10:33
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lainwir3d:o12:07
lainwir3dmail for the tablet received12:07
TMavicaTest12:08
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ggabriellainwir3d: really? more detail?12:09
lainwir3dggabriel: wait12:09
lainwir3di'm completing the details12:09
lainwir3di want it FIRST ! :P12:09
ggabriellainwir3d: go for it, then tell us :)12:10
lainwir3dhehe12:10
lainwir3di'm hesitating for the powerbank usb12:10
lainwir3dhow much does that cost usually ? it's at 35,50$12:11
lainwir3d2xusb travel charger at 18.50$12:11
tbrtends to depend on capacity and brand12:11
lainwir3dinsmat screen protector at 18.50$12:11
lainwir3d"Insmat 9000 mAh Power Bank" 35.50$12:11
lainwir3dseems to be a 39€ usually. And on jolla store at 31€12:12
* tbr is not a good reference for those things, builds his powerbanks himself and stuff12:13
tbrand used some kits that were nice and cheap without cells, as I had a lot of spare cells from old laptop packs12:13
lainwir3dusb charger is 2xUSB 3.112:14
lainwir3dnice, i'm taking one12:14
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tbrthe tablet isn't 3.1 nor type C, so no fast charging :/12:14
lardmanI see a comment by Juhani: https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-differences-old-new-hardware/12:14
coderusis fast charging depends on usb type? o_O12:15
lainwir3dtax for tablet + latsu + mapbagrag is 61$ USD12:15
ggabriellainwir3d: which country are you from if you don't mind saying?12:16
lainwir3dfrance12:16
ggabrielok, not bad12:16
lainwir3di'm hesitating on the insmat screen protector...12:16
ggabrielcongratulations on being part of the testing team :)12:16
ggabrieldon't you have a case?12:16
ggabrielwhy screen protector if you have a case?12:17
lainwir3ddon't know. Paranoïa ?12:17
lainwir3dlol12:17
ggabrieljust a piece of kit12:17
mekluaww yeah12:17
coderusneed tempered glass for tablet12:17
ggabrielthere will be other tablets12:17
meklutaxes paid12:17
lainwir3dtesting team ? You mean the first people to get it ? :P12:17
meklunow we'll wait12:17
ggabriellainwir3d: yup, _apparently_ they were going to start with a small subset12:17
ggabrielto test that everything works12:17
ggabrielthen they'll unleash the hounds12:18
lainwir3dhuuuuh. I hope that everything works then or I'm screwed.12:18
entildurr hurr, what's this with suddenly having to pay extra tax on the tablet?12:18
ggabriellainwir3d: the idea is that they'll have the capacity to deal with you if you have a problem. if you paid already, mission accomplished i'd say12:18
pp_it was communicated from the start, price doesn't include VAT12:18
ggabrielentil: read the campaign12:18
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entilok12:18
ggabrielit's been said from day 112:18
lainwir3dwell, i'm taking the screen protector just in case, i'll not be cheeky for 18$ after all that i paid lol12:19
ggabriellainwir3d: lol12:19
entilactually I don't care about or mind paying, it's just the why12:19
entilmaybe that's also in the campaign12:19
ggabrielentil: tl;dr you didn't pay tax when you contributed12:19
pp_your government is greedy12:19
mekluit's hauled from asia12:19
lainwir3dand more money to jolla isn't entirely bad12:19
ggabrieland you have to pay tax12:19
mekluand tax rates vary12:19
ggabrieland you also have to die12:19
mekluyadda yadda12:19
ggabrielthose 2 things, you can't avoid12:19
pp_and the tablet is shipped from asia (you're paying jolla hong kong, not jolla oy, I believe)12:20
ggabrielpp_: that's unconfirmed though12:20
entiloh yeah, I probably expected to pay taxes when it hit customs or something, not online like this12:20
ggabriellainwir3d: did you pay .fr tax?12:20
ggabrielentil: those are different :) vat != import taxes12:20
ggabrielso you still may have to pay more12:20
lainwir3dno, vat is just written for the moment on the shopping cart page12:21
ggabrielbut what's the %age?12:22
lardmannew blog post :)12:22
* tbr expects this to be import-vat equivalent12:23
ggabrielpp_: you may be right wrt shipped from hk directly12:24
ggabrielor maybe not, now that i read on12:24
lainwir3ddifficult to evaluate tablet taxes 'cause of all the accesories i'm taking12:24
lainwir3d$75.50 of taxes12:25
lainwir3dat checking out12:25
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lainwir3dincluding tablet + screen protector + usb charger + power bank12:26
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_inte_My tablet is shippig :-)12:27
lardmanIn France you pay VAT + import duty?12:27
* lardman thinks the UK will only be VAT12:27
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_inte_49$ VAT for case and tablet grr12:27
_inte_strangly it was something like 61 before I changed my address12:28
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ggabrieluk should be the same as .fr12:28
ggabrielso, .fi vat really12:28
lainwir3dok. Finished12:28
ggabrielassuming they are delievered from .fi12:28
ggabriellainwir3d: \o/12:28
Helleggabriel: not anymore12:28
ggabrielnow, up to 10 days12:29
ggabrielworking days*12:29
ggabrielHelle: huh?12:29
Helleggabriel: the new EU e-commerce regulations went into effect12:29
ggabrielHelle: interesting... source?12:29
entilhaha that one12:29
_inte_my order number is 14000000XX12:29
Hellewhich mean that VAT is now payable in the country of the person buying it and at that amount12:29
entilthe business killer12:29
_inte_does that mean im within the first 100 group?12:29
entilyou need to know the country of the buyer and that country's vat percent12:29
Helleah, looks like they may be able to dodge it12:30
ggabrielsurely you need to implement all this in each country12:30
ggabrielbut share a link if you have one12:30
lardman_inte_: I wonder if I should contact Jolla to say I mis-spelled my address, quoting my order #... ;)12:31
ggabrieldon't get me wrong, i want to pay uk tax :)12:31
ggabriellardman: you only need to try 9 times ;)12:31
Hellehttp://www.webretailer.com/lean-commerce/european-ecommerce-vat/12:31
_inte_lardman: depends pretty much on how worse you misspelled it and how well you know you postman :-)12:31
Hellenote, it is a marketing blurby post12:31
Hellecan't find something non-blurby right now12:31
lardman_inte_: :)12:31
Hellebecause I am busy beating up a coder12:31
FireFlyPoor coder12:32
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HelleFireFly: then he shouldn't write a library I can remove 80% of the code from, keep the API compatible and run just as fast12:32
pp_hmpf, nooo mail yet, paypal receipt is Nov 19 09:19:22 :P12:33
lainwir3dgot my confirmation mail12:34
lainwir3dso happy12:34
_inte_lainwir3d: jey!12:34
lainwir3dNow I hope I won't have too much trouble from being one of the first12:35
_inte_well12:35
_inte_should be fine12:35
_inte_i got my phone in 2013 and it was ok12:36
* lardman wonders what the per-order-week totals are, to project when one is likely to receive an invite12:36
pp_mine needed magic duct tape eventually12:36
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lainwir3dhehe, mine needed it too12:40
lainwir3dbought too much accessories >_> I don't know when to stop when it's about jolla12:41
lainwir3d"If your shipping address is in the European Union, Norway or Switzerland, taxes and customs fees will be calculated at checkout and they will be payable at the time of placing the order."12:42
lainwir3dSo yeah, no more taxes for me it seems12:42
tadzik hmm, I'm pretty sure my "Humble Bundle" app is starting in the background even though it's not allowed to12:42
lainwir3d"For customers in the USA, Australia, Hong Kong, Canada, India or Russia: you will be required to pay applicable local tax and customs fees once the parcel reaches the destination country. "12:42
tadzikI haven't started it in the last month or so, but I do get bi-weekly notifications faom it12:43
tbrthat might be the google push notification framework though12:44
tadzikargh12:44
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ggabrielHelle: that article is in line with my understanding12:45
ggabrieli doubt jolla exceeded any country's threshold :)12:46
Helleggabriel: I wouldn't be surprised, but yeah they may be able to stay under it12:47
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_inte_pp_: no sim card slot in the tablet, so this issue shouldnt appear :)12:47
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ggabriellol, i've just tested that my email works, just in case12:49
ggabrieli'm like a teenager expecting a text from someone special12:50
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pp_it could be in your spam folder too!12:50
ggabrieldon't have one :)12:51
lainwir3dhehe12:51
lainwir3dnow it can take up to 10 days apparently before shipping.12:52
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lainwir3dWe'll see when someone gets the first "shipping email"12:52
ggabriel10 working days12:52
lainwir3dyeah, working days. Even worse.12:52
ggabrielat least it isn't soon12:52
ggabrieland it says "up to"12:52
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lainwir3d:)12:53
ggabrieli see boxes in the photo too12:54
ggabrielso not sure any more hw tweaks are outstanding12:54
ggabrielunless they are empty boxen12:54
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pp_heh, phones are now sold with SFOS 2.0 "may take 10-20 days for dispatch"13:00
lainwir3dI hope buying accessories won't delay the shipping lol :P13:00
_inte_Mine should be delivered before 6th of october13:05
_inte_lainwir3d: wich date did they give for you shipment?13:05
lainwir3dis it written somewhere ?13:05
lainwir3dmust have missed it13:05
lainwir3dit's written 10working days before dispatch, and 5~7 for shipping so before 13th of october I guess, but I have no clearer dates13:08
pp_heh, don't those boxes say "Manufactured 10 2015" in the picture?13:08
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lainwir3dpp_: are you actually suggesting that they have a working time machine ?13:09
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_inte_Were all of you who received the invitation now in the first sailors perk?13:15
_inte_Some first sailors appear to have not received an invitation yet, according to tjc13:16
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RaYmAnthat custom thing is puzzling..Does it mean they import all the tablets into EU, pay taxes and ship them from there?13:20
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chem|stRaYmAn: you can presign imports, we do it for close to everything imported from non-eu13:29
RaYmAnchem|st: you mean like the eBay prepaid import tax programme?13:30
chem|stalike, that works different as it is an ebay service the resellers use13:31
TheBootroo|homehum13:31
chem|stthey ship to a company that reships13:31
chem|stthat company does the presign13:31
TheBootroo|homewhat about Aigo X86 tablet ? it looks to be the EXACT same look and specs as jolla tablet !!!  Who copied who ?13:32
TheBootroo|homehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umUOfIBX9HA13:32
chem|stTheBootroo|home: specs? nope not even close13:32
chem|stTheBootroo|home: it is a reference design it seems13:32
chem|staigo isn't the first to show up13:32
TheBootroo|homechem|st: aigo copied Jolla design  and changed colors ?13:32
chem|stbut slightly different specs13:33
RaYmAnI'm not familiar with presigning, but I've seen a lot of cases with prepaid taxes, where the local tax agency charged tax anyways, meaning double tax. (mainly they refused to believe it was paid/never got any money)13:33
chem|stRaYmAn: bad shipping company13:33
TheBootroo|homechem|st: everything is identical : same shape, same position of camera, same buttons on the side...13:33
chem|stRaYmAn: and you have a receipt where you already paid taxes, don't you?13:33
TheBootroo|homechinese are strong when it comes to clone something13:34
RaYmAnchem|st: it's the national post service that has done it.13:34
chem|stTheBootroo|home: which part of reference design didn't you understand?13:34
TheBootroo|homebut i really hope jolla didn't use some premade intel tablet case13:34
chem|stRaYmAn: they do what they get charged with13:34
TheBootroo|homechem|st: 'reference' can mean Aigo use jolla as a reference, or jolla & aigo used intel reference platform13:35
chem|stTheBootroo|home: the other device we spotted in (iirc) korea is just the same looks but plastic backcover, and the specs are 1/2 of Jolla13:35
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TheBootroo|homechem|st: so it's a clone13:36
TheBootroo|homejust like they used to clone ipad, iphone, and any other sucessful device13:36
chem|stI don't know who owns the design, but by the looks it is not Jolla13:36
TheBootroo|homeif it's the case, it's good news for jolla, it means it's seen as a good design13:36
chem|stthat's true13:37
TheBootroo|homei'm trying to get clear about it, be jolla tablet website says "designed in finland"13:37
TheBootroo|homeso if design is not from jolla, it's not designed in finland anymore13:37
chem|stif it is a genuine design, Jolla is gonna do something about it13:38
chem|stTheBootroo|home: maybe it is designed in finland, just not by jolla13:38
TheBootroo|homechem|st: or maybe it's just generic chinese stuff customized in finland13:40
TheBootroo|homejust like some tomato salsa is named "made in italia" but it's just chinese tomato that were put in a can by italian people13:42
TheBootroo|homeanyway jolla won't be doing HW for long13:42
TheBootroo|homethat at least is clear for anyone13:42
RaYmAnwasn't it pretty clear that was the case from the beginning? I thought it was. The hardware was OEM design with some hw decisions made by jolla and then they focus on what they do best: Software.13:42
_inte_Hope they come up with a new phone shortly13:42
TheBootroo|homejolla will focus on sailfish only13:42
_inte_hw seems a bit limited13:42
_inte_in terms of ram13:42
TheBootroo|home_inte_: they probably won't13:42
_inte_cpu power13:43
_inte_...13:43
_inte_they have to13:43
TheBootroo|homethey will more likely work hard on adapting sailfish on more and more android flaships13:43
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_inte_or they need a partner13:43
_inte_they should maybe talk to nokia for a collaboration13:43
_inte_for instance13:43
TheBootroo|homeand try to make some big manufacturer create a phone will sailfish instead of android13:43
_inte_i like the phone but i need some more power13:43
TheBootroo|home_inte_: nokia is doomed13:44
chem|stTheBootroo|home: you misunderstood, they branch out hardware into a new company, most probably to split investors and protect the core (SFOS) from companies interested in HW13:44
_inte_nokia is just next door, so why not nock there?13:44
_inte_chem|st: but isnt that new company focusing on encrypted/secure devices?13:44
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chem|st_inte_: I'd bet that they are working close together and the reason why there is no Jolla2 is that Nokia is releasing their first new flagship on 2016-01-01 with SFOS13:45
TheBootroo|homeRaYmAn: at the begining, by OEM i understood "premade PCB", not the full tablet (i really thought that the rounded design was jolla-made)13:45
TheBootroo|homechem|st: sources ?13:46
chem|st_inte_: 3 companies but one isn't Jolla... SSH+Jolla is a joint venture to create SFsecure13:46
Raimchem|st: just *after* christmas would probably be the worst time to announce a new device...13:46
TheBootroo|homei wouldn't be surprised if nokia would output one more android non-sense13:46
chem|stTheBootroo|home: for what?13:46
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TheBootroo|homeNokia HW + Jolla SW would be perfect, but it's really NOT gonna happen13:47
chem|stTheBootroo|home: which part of "I'd bet" didn't you understand13:47
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TheBootroo|homestop dreaming alive y'all Nokia fans13:47
TheBootroo|home(i'm part of it, but i stopped dreaming)13:47
HelleTheBootroo|home: unless the Finnish goverment makes it so :P13:47
chem|stRaim: they are not allowed to earlier13:48
Nicd-what does the government have to do with iT?13:48
TheBootroo|homei had N95, 5800XM, N97mini, N900, N950, and now Jolla13:48
PeperJohnnyNokia cannot announce a new phone before 2016 because of contracts with microsoft13:48
_inte_who cares about christmas13:48
chem|stand that :)13:48
TheBootroo|homenokia was bought any stolen by µsoft, and after this they did android tablet13:48
Raimchem|st: I know. my guess is Nokia will announce something at MWC in February.13:48
_inte_was just a coincidence i received my jolla around christmas 2013 :)13:48
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_inte_probably the only phone i bought around christmas13:49
_inte_anyways13:49
TheBootroo|homeif they would do SFOS phone i would definitely buy it, but i reall don't count on it13:49
_inte_gtg13:49
_inte_lets hope for new hardware!13:49
_inte_bye13:49
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chem|stTheBootroo|home: they were not dumb at all, they sold all the old garbage to µsoft and licensed them everything else, with a non-compete till 201613:50
TheBootroo|homechem|st: yeah but now nokia doesn't have research center anymore13:50
TheBootroo|home(except  for cellular technologies)13:51
TheBootroo|homeall people designing phones re gone13:51
TheBootroo|home*are13:51
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TheBootroo|homei don't see how they would create a phone now, except by sub-contracting with some chinese company, which would probably create an android platform13:52
TheBootroo|homebut then again, let's wait and see13:52
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chem|stTheBootroo|home: lets do another mindless guess, how about Jolla Mobile being a Nokia Jolla joint-venture13:52
tbreveryone uses ODMs nowadays, even Nokia did while they were still doing phones13:53
TheBootroo|homechem|st: that wouldn't be a good news for jolla13:53
PeperJohnnyAnd to put the cherry on this guess. Marc dillon left because he didn't want to go back to Nokia or work with them^^13:53
SfietKonstantinWchem|st: I don't expect this I guess13:54
TheBootroo|homeµsoft now have trojans in nokia headquarters13:54
SfietKonstantinWJolla cut the ropes with nokia13:54
SfietKonstantinWTheBootroo|home: they are gone13:54
TheBootroo|homeso if jolla merges with jolla, µsoft will just kill it13:54
TheBootroo|homeso if jolla merges with nokia13:54
chem|stPeperJohnny: another guess, he is the actual glue in between and people like marc, valerio and others that are in misterious relations to Jolla now are gonna popup as Jolla Mobile CEO CCO COO and so on13:55
SfietKonstantinWand thanks for using the only distinctive key on the french keyboard, => µ <=13:55
chem|stSfietKonstantinW: wishful thinking, I'd love to have Nokia hardware with Jolla software, actually I want a N900 like device with Jolla software...13:56
SfietKonstantinWchem|st: only blackberry is making sliders these days :(13:56
TheBootroo|home+113:56
chem|stSfietKonstantinW: or a BB passport with SFOS13:57
TheBootroo|homenokia flagship with mini hdmi video out, sliding kbd, pureview apn, and undestructible case13:57
TheBootroo|homeand SFOS 2.x on it13:57
SfietKonstantinWchem|st: BB passeport is a nice HW13:57
tbrare we in wishful thinking again?13:57
SfietKonstantinWtoo bad it's locked as hell13:57
TheBootroo|homeeven 650€ i would buy it (i bought N9 that price)13:57
PeperJohnnytbr: never left :D13:57
SfietKonstantinW(and too bad they are still using Qt4)13:58
TheBootroo|homeSfietKonstantinW: rly ?13:58
TheBootroo|homeafter all thi time ?13:58
chem|stI want a hardware keyboard... it is just the same with cars and phones now as it was with TVs and Displays 10 years ago... industry decides what people have to want...13:58
SfietKonstantinWTheBootroo|home: well pureview went to MS I guess, and undestructible cases went to MS too13:58
TheBootroo|homeSfietKonstantinW: fffffuuuuuuuuuu13:58
SfietKonstantinWbut +1 for hdmi out, hw kbd13:58
* SfietKonstantinW don't care about camera13:58
PeperJohnnychem|st: they always do13:59
TheBootroo|homethat's what i was sayin : nokia nowadays is just castrated13:59
TheBootroo|home80% of their interesting stuff is now in Lumia13:59
SfietKonstantinWTheBootroo|home: their cascades thing is based on Qt 4, the Qt 5 port has been removed from upstream :/13:59
TheBootroo|homeand thus won't be in hypotetical Nokia Jolla Mobile13:59
SfietKonstantinWIMO, if you want to have hw innovation, see chinese odms13:59
chem|stPeperJohnny: but I do not want a limousine just as much as I do not want 16:9 displays just as I do not want touch only devices14:00
TheBootroo|homeSfietKonstantinW: yeah, dreaming awake of an Oppo or Meizu with SFOS14:00
PeperJohnnychem|st: me neither, but apparently we're not to decide :/14:00
SfietKonstantinWI want the tablet ...14:01
TheBootroo|homealso want the Nokia Clear Black display for legibility in sunlight and really dark black pixels14:02
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PeperJohnnyWell if we had the same modular design for smartphones like for pcs, everything would look a lot better imho14:03
SfietKonstantinWPeperJohnny: sadly we are still waiting for project Ara to deliver something14:04
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SfietKonstantinWHAHA, got my mail14:05
PeperJohnnyyep it get's postponed and postponed14:05
SfietKonstantinWit was filtered to my TJC folder14:05
PeperJohnnycongrats14:05
SfietKonstantinW:/14:06
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* BBerry24 is using a BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps running Android 2.3.3 (2.1.0.147)14:43
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chem|stBBerry24: on ported devices?14:50
chem|stSfietKonstantinW: I want a bugatti ...14:51
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BBerry24@14:53
BBerry24@chem   on,,one  blackberryplaybook14:54
chem|stok you just been referrencing... and that it still is 2.3.3...14:55
chem|stso we can actually be glad to have 4.2 runtime14:56
Smarit also works :P14:56
chem|sthehe14:56
BBerry24what.ABOUT5.015:03
SmarI wanna sf 3 ~15:03
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BBerry24playbook isnicenote15:05
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attahWhy is it that the jolla store is always full of weird brokenness?15:54
ggabrielworked fine for me today...15:55
attahIt works.. it's just a pita to guess the bugs that you have to work around15:55
attahIt requires a phone number.. but it can't be in a "shipping address", it has to be in the regular address15:56
ggabrielworks fine=no bugs15:56
attah:P15:56
ggabrieloh, you mean shop.jolla.com15:56
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attahah, yes.. sorry for abiguity15:56
ggabriel123456789015:56
ggabrielthat one works15:56
attahi prefer to receive my stuff though ;)15:56
ggabrielyou won't receive it by phone ;)15:57
attahthe shipping company might call15:57
ggabrielloll15:57
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ggabrielsorry, had to laugh a bit15:57
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attahwhy?15:58
ggabrielesp if it continues to be fedex15:58
attahthey work fine for me (and call)15:58
ggabrielbecause they normally gently touch your door with their fingertips, wait 10ns, leave a "sorry, couldn't reach you" slip15:58
ggabrielthey must like you :)15:58
attahhaha.. they can't even get in that far where i live15:58
attahalthough to be fair that's only because i live close to work15:59
ggabrieltablet should fit the letter slot though15:59
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attahas i said.. they can't get that far here16:00
attahit's just the regular mail that has the code16:00
ggabrieloic16:00
attahand as always there is no option to provide it, but still they are pissed that you don't16:00
attahwell, not fedex.. they call16:01
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zebbiz_piMy Jolla phone is here!16:14
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zebbiz_piBut why can I only download update 11 and not 16?16:15
Coolgeekyou have to do through progressive update16:16
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v2pxI wish I had the money for a new phone. My Jolla died a month ago and now I'm lost in the dumbphone world. And can't even use mobile internet with my new, soon to be shipped tablet :(16:24
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zebbiz_piCoolgeek: Yeah, I had to get 11 first, then 1616:30
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FireFlyv2px: :\ died how?16:43
v2pxI dropped it16:43
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sea-gullhello! During the buying procedure I noticed that there's a discount for the jolla phone, does anybody know how to get it?17:04
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pp_hmpf, indiegogo has me listed as "united states" and my email vas "unverified"17:22
pp_fixed but hopefully nothing to do with me missing any invite :D17:23
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zebbiz_piHow is the IRC app?17:28
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v2pxI liked it17:30
zebbiz_piRIP v2px's Jolla :'(17:33
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zebbiz_piAnyone know how to set the camera to rotate but not the rest of the system?20:40
phlixii htink this does not make sense, since its a physical sensor...20:44
phlixi..but maybe i get you wrong20:44
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zebbiz_piphlixi: On my old phone I could turn off auto-rotate, but the pictures taken with the camera would still be affected by the way I held my phone20:46
zebbiz_piWhen I turn off auto-rotate with the Jolla, everything is in portrait mode20:47
zebbiz_piEven the camera when I hold it in landscape20:47
zebbiz_piphlixi: Do you get my problem?20:50
zebbiz_piYoutube works fine, that rotates correctly20:52
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zebbiz_piwait20:53
zebbiz_pino it doesn't20:54
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phlixizebbiz_pi: ok, makes more sense now, but you could still mean two different things: 1.) the UI of the camera app to rotate (while everything else should not rotate) or 2.) the format how the pictures taken are saved21:48
phlixifor 1.) there might be a patch on openrepos, for 2.) i have no idea....21:49
phlixi(actually i have no idea regarding 1.) as well, but there are some patches to make apps rotate...)21:49
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