#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-09-23

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tbrchem|st: how can I reach that jiit guy on tjc and poke some sense into him?09:06
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tbrchem|st: you know what, forget it, if that's how moderators approach moderators, I have better things to do than waste my time on tjc.09:11
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narchiewhen can I pay VAT?09:13
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tbrgo to the store, buy something. you'll be paying VAT for it.09:16
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chem|sttbr: ?10:06
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chem|stnarchie: depending on your country you will need to take care of toll and taxes your own10:08
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chem|sttbr: about the duplicate thread stuff?10:11
chem|stfirst come first serve10:11
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chem|stand in all the noise about the RePhone parts have been released at seeedstudio10:23
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tbrchem|st: moderator decisions stand. another mod should NEVER publicly fuck around with that. It destroys the public image and trust.10:52
tbrchem|st: but hey, now you're alone with that guy and you can deal with his fallout. I'll just ignore things.10:52
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chem|sttbr: he is the bugzilla guy, so not a general moderator, and as always, jolla staff outranks us11:19
chem|stI had the same with another sailor, and I do not quiet understand why you are that upset about it11:20
chem|sttbr: and to be precise, it was always a first come first serve policy in closing duplicates, if you do not want to pick the fight with users, let sailors do11:21
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tbrchem|st: if he is a sailor then this is even more a problem, as he is not marked as such11:25
tbrI say let the sailors chocke on it then11:26
chem|styes please let them11:27
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chem|stjolla lets them decide if they like to share that they are jolla or not11:28
Scelt_nyt toimii11:28
Scelt_hikka?11:28
* tbr ponders to delete his tjc account11:28
Scelt_sorry, quick fingers and wrong channel11:28
chem|sttbr: and still, I do not understand why you are so fed by this, relax!11:29
tbrchem|st: I got upset as I made a decision as moderator, marked it and explained it. Then some under cover jolla moderator comes along ignores it and overrides it.11:30
tbrI find it laughable11:30
tbrand I don't give a fark11:30
tbrit just shows that there is no basis for trusting each other11:31
MoritzJTsorry for chiming in that abruptly. Do I hear right, that Jolla employees are not forced to reveal they are on TJC?11:33
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MoritzJTain't that problematic from a legal pov anyway?11:33
tbr*shrug* not my problem anymore11:34
MoritzJTguess so11:34
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chem|stMoritzJT: why should it be problematic?11:36
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chem|sttbr: and btw he is shown as jolla*moderator to me...11:38
MoritzJTchem|st: am not sure, it was an ongoing topic for Nokia support discussions, in the end employees were not allowed as normal members. What they said had to reflect Nokia :/11:38
chem|stMoritzJT: that is company policy11:39
MoritzJTchem|st: I thought they were forced from outside, but if that's the case all seems ok11:39
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chem|stjolla is way more liberal than nokia11:41
chem|stand what gov should force them to such thing, most govs do not even know about the internet ;)11:41
playforvoicesTo me I'm happy that Jolla continues the Nokia idea of a Linux based OS on Smartphones.11:42
playforvoicesI'm not sure what you means with liberal?11:43
MoritzJTI was not supporting such a policy just to clear things up!11:43
chem|sthttps://www.google.com/search?q=liberal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-811:43
MoritzJTyou missed the conv11:43
MoritzJTlol11:43
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tbrchem|st: the profile doesn't show the jolla logo to me *shrug*11:44
chem|stlmc11:44
playforvoices*fg* thank you for the lesson in google politics, I think Jolla isn't liberal in that way.11:44
chem|sttbr: you are right, the profile does not show the logo, people does11:46
chem|sttbr: I think it is only the two of us not Jolla, so expect any moderator or admin be jolla11:46
chem|stplayforvoices: they broke with the traditional nokia top down hirarchy, maybe I have to rephrase, they are way more liberated11:47
chem|stunconventional11:48
playforvoicesok, I understand now what you are meaning. I agree with you11:48
tbrthey turned it around so much, that even though employees would comment on things nothing would be a commitment and a common catch phrase was "There is no jolla the company" (to make a statement on sthg) so essentially nothing was ever committed to11:50
tbrsometimes during the community meetings someone would confirm that they were empowered to make a committed statement11:50
tbrbut I haven't seen that in a long time11:50
ggabrielthe roadmap tag was kind of a commitment, wasn't it?11:51
chem|stggabriel: the tracked by jolla states are11:53
chem|stand we had lots of official answers by sailors wearing a jolla tag11:54
chem|ston feature requests as well as on bugs11:54
ggabrieli guess an official answer may or may not be a commitment11:55
ggabrielotoh, commitments are hard to make as it only takes the investors to roll back the commitment11:55
chem|stthey evolve slowly on what they share though, hope that changes with releasing more stuff to the open11:55
ggabrielso *shrug*11:55
chem|stggabriel: you are hardlining, I mean they post statements, and they post stuff on blog that is as much as a commitment to me as a company can actually do, making promises they do not know if they can keep looks bad in the end11:57
ggabrielok, semantics then11:57
chem|styeah11:57
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chem|stI'd love to know more about the inner workings but in the end, who cares, I want to read about roadmaps as they happen and explode to tjc in the same second11:58
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phdeswerggabriel: as a sailor I can say it is sometimes hard to know what to say. Especially if you agree and want some change or extra feature but often we don't know if or when it can be done (especially if it is out of your area of responsability).12:40
phdeswerIt is trying to avoid making false promises often.12:40
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ggabrieli totally understand. i'm a consultant so similar situation when it comes to the product i'm an expert at and i don't control12:41
ggabrieli should have said "expert" ;)12:41
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MoritzJTHi! Someone familiar with f2fs? Trying to change the UUID of a partition with f2fs, can't find a way...13:06
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taaemhttps://www.fairphone.com/2015/09/23/opening-up-fairphone-to-the-community-open-source-fairphone-2/ \o/14:22
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ggabriel"We’re shipping with Fairphone OS, a unique Fairphone flavor of Android™ 5.1 (Lollipop)"14:25
ggabrielyaap14:25
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ggabrielfull open source, all the tools and the binary blobs14:25
ggabrielok, I want people to bash fairphone the same way jolla was bashed wrt open sourcery14:26
ggabrielbinary blob != open source14:26
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Yanielopen sorcery14:26
fennekkithe blobs are almost definitely drivers, tho14:26
Yanielyes?14:26
fennekkicomplaints abt Jolla seemed to be more about the stuff that differentiates it from Just Nemo/Mer being closed, IIRC?14:26
Yanielanyway has fairphone actually delivered anything yet?14:27
ggabrielfennekki: there were 2 types: silica and lower level stuff that qualcomm doesn't want you to share14:27
Yanielfennekki: plenty of people have been complaining about the driver blobs too14:27
fennekkifuck qualcomm tbh14:27
Yaniel^14:27
ggabriellol14:27
fennekkibut that's not really a jolla-specific issue14:27
Yanielbut yeah the silica part is an issue14:27
ggabrielno, but there were a lot of complaints14:27
fennekkiI don't really know what in particular any of these companies have to lose from releasing drivers for their devices in source form14:28
fennekkicheaper interoperable copies, maybe=14:28
fennekki?*14:28
fennekkibut then again, I don't know why they couldn't do that without the driver source14:28
ninnnufennekki: Fear of "you're breaking muh patents", which is part of the reason why AMD and NVidia keep their GPU-drivers closed.14:30
fennekkiI've heard radeon is already quite good, though14:30
fennekkiI mean, the open-source driver14:30
ninnnuBut it's not the same as the closed one14:33
fennekkimm, yeah14:33
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ggabrielnot sure how fairphone os is different to cyanogenmod either15:01
ggabrielnot sure it deserves the "os" bit either :)15:01
wysiwtfyou mean like replicant? :p15:03
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walokraI heard that there's nice new game in Store, Falldown :)15:04
ggabrielwysiwtf: i guess i'm just randomly hating :P15:05
Liekeyes, falldown is pretty fun15:06
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wysiwtfooh15:07
wysiwtffirst table invites are out i read15:08
wysiwtfnow it can only a matter of years \o/15:08
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zebbiz_piAnyone have an ETA on sailfishOS 2.0?15:38
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coderusmonth after jolla tablet ships?15:39
coderusafaik it will be shipped with 1.1.9.28 only15:40
pdanek2Hello15:40
zebbiz_piIsn't bjrntrsket 16?15:40
zebbiz_pi1.1.1615:40
pdanek2as a part of sailfish roadmap, there was researching selinux use on sailfish15:40
cb400fmost of 2.0 is in 1.1.9 right? ... surely they can't keep 1.1.9 in early access for another 6 weeks or so? ;-)15:40
zebbiz_pihi, pdanek215:40
pdanek2what was the outcome?15:41
cb400fthat would be mean15:41
pdanek2will sailfish get selinux anytime soon?15:41
coderuscb400f: who knows15:41
coderuspdanek2: dint seen any updates for next releases15:42
pp_Soon (tm) after non-EA 1.1.9, I guess15:43
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zebbiz_piOh, I'm mixing my version numbers15:43
nh1402when force touch becomes mainstream, (currently only found on the mate s), doing a hard swipe should provide further functionality such as switching between open apps, opening the shutdown, reboot menu15:44
pdanek2it will become mainstream, sooner or later15:45
nh1402probably in 201715:47
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nh1402I don't see many phones being introduced with it next year15:47
nh1402at  least not from the big 415:48
nh1402(Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC)15:48
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pp_Microsoft! (they'd probably need to rewrite the kernel tho)15:49
coderusyou can easily know pressed area value with 2012 (or even earlier) touchscreens hardware. jolla screen have such values also.15:50
coderusthis can do same thing as "force touch"15:51
nh1402pressed area is where on the screen you're pressing15:52
nh1402force touch also include how much pressure is being applied.15:52
coderusarea is how fat your finger15:52
coderuscoordinates is where  you're pressing15:53
coderusso with small calibration at the first start you can use this to simulate force touch15:53
nh1402i suppose, but people have different sized fingers, if you're simulating force touch, people with chubby fingers might always detect it as a hard press15:54
nh1402its like some chinese phones come with iris scanners, when you could do iris recognition with a normal camera.15:54
coderussure, thats why calibration needed15:54
coderuscan be calibrated on the fly also15:54
nh1402well we could implement a simulated force touch with the functionality until the force touch hardware is found in all/most phones15:56
nh1402or at least experiment with it and see how reliable it is.15:56
nh1402I don't think it would be that reliable.16:00
pdanek2why no news about intex device yet?16:00
nh1402is there another big phone event coming up where they could officially announce some phones?16:01
coderusnh1402: well why not. with continuos calibrating we can always know size of area while normal press16:06
nh1402they haven't announced any phones yet, but there are a few months left in the year ;)16:07
nh1402continous calibration will get annoying for users.16:07
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nh1402continuous*16:08
nh1402coderus: I'm not arguing with you, I thought of that too, but I don't think it'll catch on, now since there is hardware that will get it right every time.16:10
nh1402people would just complain.16:12
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coderusnobody talking about production16:12
coderusjust for fun :)16:12
nh1402coderus: how would you like to help bring android apps to Sailfish to ported devices/open source effort16:14
coderusif apps are opensource16:15
nh1402I'm talking more about an android app compatibilty layer, like alien dalvik but free, and open source.16:17
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coderusi know nothing aout android :)16:22
coderusabout*16:23
nh1402how about opengl/opengles16:23
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nh1402I think krnlyng and I can agree we need someone who knows about opengl/opengles more than they know about android.16:25
nh1402at least for krnlyng's android emulator renderer method.16:25
krnlyngwell some android knowledge is probably required16:26
krnlyngbut i think for the most part its egl/gles knowledge16:26
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nh1402coderus: what do you say, are you up for it?16:42
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coderusnh1402: no17:28
nh1402fair enough17:30
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r0kk3rzits a popular enough idea, so im sure people will join if you just keep working on it17:36
r0kk3rzthe porters guys might be able to help you with egl/gles type stuff17:38
nh1402we've asked around quite a bit, some are either not interested or don't have time.17:47
r0kk3rztime is always the big one17:47
r0kk3rzthis is for shashlik? or something else17:48
pdanek2what's up with sailfish secure?17:49
pdanek2;17:49
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pdanek2seems no news since announcement17:49
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r0kk3rzthats classified17:50
pdanek2why?17:51
pdanek2intellectual property?17:51
pdanek2or NDA with SSH?17:52
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pdanek2is it still a thing?17:54
pdanek2should people hope for something in 2016?17:55
nh1402this isn't for shashlik, a number of different possible methods.17:55
r0kk3rznh1402: anything i can look at?17:56
r0kk3rzpdanek2: was a joke, sailfish insecure is still a bit of a joke compared to market leaders, let alone in the business marker17:57
r0kk3rz*market17:57
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pdanek2I agree18:00
the_mgtstill, I'd like to have file encryption, because I want to store my ssh and vpn keys on the device18:02
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the_mgttyping passwords with 32+ characters is a pita without a fullsize keyboard18:03
r0kk3rzyeah18:03
r0kk3rztbh thats something you can most likely cook up yourself18:03
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r0kk3rzbut i think jollas a bit tied when it comes to filesystem features thanks to btrfs18:03
r0kk3rzmaybe some better stuff coming with tablet and ext4/llvm18:04
pdanek2Do you think SSH Communications even cares about Jolla?18:05
pdanek2they promised cooperation on sailfish secure, but it's probably very low interest for them18:05
r0kk3rzi can see why having proper linux phones is strategically useful for them18:08
nh1402r0kk3rz: how are you with egl and gles18:08
r0kk3rzsince, linux security is their area of expertise18:08
r0kk3rznh1402: non-existant, ive never touched either18:08
nh1402how about android graphics side, hwcomposer, gralloc, surfaceflinger18:09
the_mgtfull on device encrpytion and optional encryption of every communication channel would be nice18:09
r0kk3rznh1402: not really touched any of that either18:10
the_mgtencrypted normal voice calls and standard sms/mms would be nice18:10
nh1402how about the android boot system and related android services18:10
r0kk3rzthe_mgt: there was some random dudes working on encrypted voice calls18:11
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pp_not random, it's the trevoc people!18:13
r0kk3rznh1402: i dont really have any experience doing anything that would be particularly useful to you18:13
r0kk3rznh1402: but if you have a work-in-progress somewhere i can look at, and try and get my head around some of it, maybe18:13
the_mgtr0kk3rz: any link or something?18:14
nh1402r0kk3rz: well there is a chroot android rom with a renderer you could look at. The renderer is linked to the rom via tcp but it renders garbage, even though the correct texture is passed over.18:15
nh1402krnlyng: link him ;)18:15
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nh1402r0kk3rz: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9563118:17
r0kk3rzthe_mgt: https://twitter.com/PasiPatama/status/630236791258398720 , im not familiar with the company Trevoc, finnish i think18:18
the_mgtnice, thanks18:20
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grneti cant install facebook messenger from warehouse said miss purple facebook19:23
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grnetFile './mw/armv7hl/telepathy-haze-0.8.0-1.1.5.armv7hl.rpm' not found on medium19:26
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coderuspkcon refresh?19:50
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grneti think i must install this20:17
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grnethttps://openrepos.net/tags/telepathy-haze20:17
grnetpurple fb20:17
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