#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-09-30

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SHIHUAmorning,02:51
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SHIHUAi hate the interface that we get/miss a phone02:53
SHIHUAi am often wrong. .02:53
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SHIHUAnow i received too many  messages.but i can just one by one.02:55
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the_mgthttps://together.jolla.com/question/108599/11928-alarming-oom-behavior-killing-apps/ so others are experiencing similar stuff as I am. Only that sometimes all my apps including the covers are closed08:15
the_mgtI cleaned my battery contacts earlier today, will see if it is better now08:15
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the_mgt(contacts on the phone and on the battery, both of them. also post it under the battery)08:16
Temppu-Temethe_mgt: earlier OOM killer problems were the reason i switched from Jolla :/08:17
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Smaronly platform I’ve had problems with oom killer is iOS :P08:19
the_mgtTemppu-Teme: it was fine until the latest update. there was a short period after some early access update, but it got fixed when it was a proper release08:20
the_mgtSmar: at least they try to hide it in a charming way on ios08:21
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Smarthe_mgt: how so?08:27
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the_mgtSmar: in the "tab view", where you see all your open apps, it looks as if they are still open. the tablet doesnt close all apps and pretends they were never open in the first place08:31
Smarandroid does same08:31
Smarbut I never considered those to say it’s ”open”08:31
Smarit’s just list of apps you’ve recently used08:31
Smareven knowing how to close an app from that is not that intuitive :P08:32
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the_mgtSmar: I am talking about this view were you can close apps by pushing them to the top of the screen. I guess you are, too08:34
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Smaryes08:34
the_mgtthe thing is, ios is gesture based in a lot of places and it feels wrong, but this view is about right and works just fine08:35
Smardunno, it took some time to realize how it worked for me08:35
Smarand many people I know don’t even know about it08:35
Smarbefore it was a topic08:35
the_mgtI probably read about it somewhere. I use it to close the umpteen gaming apps my son has recently played08:35
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Smarhehe08:35
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the_mgtthe big difference is probably that I view the ipad as a toy and a leisure device, I have no important email accounts configured, etc. so i don't feel "insulted" by the behavior of the device. while my jolla is my primamry phone with 6 email accounts, etc and it drives me nuts when it is not working properly08:37
ggabrielthe_mgt: just don't take it too personal :)08:38
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Temppu-Temegotta love the word 'umpteen', only ever saw it used by Jeff Atwood :)08:42
Yanielreally? I've seen it all over08:42
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Temppu-Tememaybe i don't go through enough semi-formal english content :D08:44
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Smarthe_mgt: yeah, I got mine by free, mostly use smartgo books with it :P08:54
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Smar(only program that’s only for iOS, sadly)08:54
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ggabrielok, browsing tjc is a bit sad... more people want the UI to be more android/ios like09:52
ggabrieland even more people support that :S09:52
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ggabrielin the meantime, ios copied smart cover actions in the crappiest possible way, and fanbois are excited about it :P09:57
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lainwir3dggabriel: you're joking right ? Apple copied it ?09:59
lainwir3dDamn, they never stop.09:59
ggabrielyou can now tap on certain "apps" and a menu appears with actions10:00
ggabriele.g., send an sms10:00
ggabrielso, it isn't as good as sfos, but it's roughly the same concept10:00
ggabrielnot limited to 2 actions10:00
Stskeepssimpsons did it10:00
lainwir3d:-/10:00
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Smaralso, there’s been some keyboard-tries on new releases again :P10:04
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HelleI want the SFOS to be either where it is now, or degenerate to the state of Maemo on the N900, but uh, yeah, iOS is bad and Android is close to unusable garbage UI wise10:05
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ggabrielyeah, fanbois are really excited about how you can now long press somewhere and you can use gestures on a grayed keyboard to navigate with the cursor10:05
ggabrielreally handy.10:05
Helleshe says, typing this on an Android tablet convertible10:05
HelleI mean Android has it's uses and it's not unusable, but it's UI is not a selling point10:05
Hellenor is it's Operating System design, why can't an Android phone emulate a Bluetooth keyboard..... (the answer is, Google is lazy)10:06
ggabrielHelle: but neither can ios10:06
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ggabrielthat's why all these "apps" need wifi to connect to cameras and so on10:06
ggabrieland that has become a standard now10:07
Helleggabriel: ugh10:07
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Helleggabriel: I mean I use an old Sony Ericsson phone as a remote control with Bluetooth keyboard and mouse support10:07
ggabrielso, you buy a fancy camera with wifi not because the camera can do cool things, but because bluetooth can't be used to communicate with phones. ah well10:07
Helleand when I say old, I mean 7 years old or so10:07
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ggabrieli have no idea how you pulled that off :P10:08
Helleggabriel: oh, Android can do all sorts of fancy things over Bluetooth, it just can't do it using the standard profiles10:08
ggabrielI suspect that bluetooth is quite inaccessible from an "app" perspective10:08
ggabrielinteresting10:08
ggabrielso maybe it's steve jobs's fault then, not so much larry page's10:08
Helleggabriel: on the old SE, it was just a basic application pre-installed on the phone and you can load custom profiles on it (tar.gz files with XML and PNG in them to define them)10:08
ggabrieloic10:09
Helleggabriel: well, on Android you still can't make it play Bluetooth HID, or Bluetooth SPP10:09
Helleofcourse since Android 3 moved to Bluez (instead of a custom bluetooth stack), if you root an Android device, you can play HID client just fine, but just not via any official API10:10
ggabrielwell, of course, if you root the device you can do many things :)10:11
* ggabriel remembers when ios used to come with a terminal ootb10:11
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Helleggabriel: more that, this is just a case of Google refusing to expose the API that internally exists10:12
Hellethe same one I actually use on SailfishOS to create this functionality10:12
ggabrielall of this makes me very sad10:14
Helleyes it does10:14
* ggabriel going back to his c-6410:14
Helleit is why I am not a big fan of closed source software10:14
Hellewe keeep regressing in functionality10:15
Hellelike my N900 /had/ embedded Skype support, but as it's closed source and a closed protocol, on my Jolla phone, I am stuck with a dedicated, battery draining app10:15
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Hellethe UI middleware being closed on SFOS is probably the best compromise I've seen10:17
Helleas well, it's actually very little code to interact with, yet has a huge effect on the uniquejness10:18
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phlixi_in the meantime one could implement skype (at least text based chat), since one could now use the webinterface, right? (yeah, of course, skype is still evil^^)10:28
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intehello11:17
intewhat do you people think about my idea I pointed out here: https://together.jolla.com/question/113005/feature-request-bring-back-the-old-style-events-screen-gesture/11:18
Bysmyyris something happened past 2 weeks exept update to all(I was travelling)11:18
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inteBysmyyr Registrationd for tablet shipment have started11:21
inteapart from that...11:21
inteNope.11:21
Bysmyyrah yeah, I filled that already11:21
inteSF2.0 still sucks :)11:21
inte+111:22
inteme too :)11:22
inteIs coderus around?11:22
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inteWould it be possible to fix the screen arrangement in SF2.0 through patchmanager patch?11:23
coderussure11:24
BysmyyrI have not updated yet, I did not wanted to do it before trip and I come back yesterday11:24
intecool11:24
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coderuswhat you want to change?11:24
inteYou will have a virtually completely different phone afterwards :)11:24
intehttps://together.jolla.com/question/113005/feature-request-bring-back-the-old-style-events-screen-gesture/11:24
intelike accessing events like in 1.711:25
inteand access carousel frim events, not from home11:25
inteincluding fixing cover actions :)11:25
coderuswell, no. i like sfos2.011:26
inteuh11:26
coderusi can point you in doing so, but i wont do it myself11:26
intesad :)11:26
inteok i might come back to you11:26
coderuseventsview is always accessible by swipe from left11:26
inteim on my phone right now11:26
inteyes i know but i tend to always swipe to the wring side since i change hands pretty often:)11:27
coderusyou need to teach11:27
coderusgive it a while11:27
Tofecoderus: from inside an app? I don't have that behavior here11:27
intetofe in settings11:28
inteactivate quick access11:28
Tofeok11:28
coderusTofe: go to settings - gestures and enable quick access events11:28
Tofeah, much better :)11:28
TofeI saw this setting when I upgraded, but didn't activate it, dunno why11:29
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interegarding the oom behavior11:37
inteis that a configuration issue?11:38
intelike, could i edit some settings to stop it killing apps that early?11:38
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intelike a threshold or sth?11:38
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inteit's not really multitasking when apps are frequently closed while in background IMHO11:39
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TemeVinte: it can be configured, there was some instructions in tmo iirc11:41
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intecool ill check that11:49
inteprobably kernel parameter or sth11:49
chem|stnumber of pages iirc11:50
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Helleugh, still no e-mail, getting a little annoyinh17:02
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r0kk3rzwell thats a bit weird17:17
r0kk3rzthe lockscreen acts differently depending on whether the device is locked or not17:17
coderuswhat you mean? :)17:18
r0kk3rzif not locked, you get the big fade in and animated elements17:18
r0kk3rzbut if its locked, it has no fade in and no arrows17:18
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coderushow do you access lockscreen if phone is not locked? :)17:19
r0kk3rzcoderus: single tap power button to put into standby, single press again to activate17:19
r0kk3rzfrom unlocked home17:19
r0kk3rzthen do the same, but double press power button to standby17:20
coderussorry i have doublepress activating flashlight17:20
coderusso can't test :)17:20
r0kk3rzoh fair enough17:20
coderusbut original doublepress is designed to fast unlock17:21
r0kk3rzdouble press to lock, not unlock17:21
r0kk3rzsingle press to unlock17:21
coderusno idea what doublepress to lock does17:21
r0kk3rzdouble press when unlocked cancels the lock wait timer17:22
r0kk3rzso the phone is instantly locked and requires pin17:22
r0kk3rzmmm, i think is bug, only seems to happen sometimes17:23
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kimmolias expected17:31
the_mgthm, tripple press for flash light would be nice17:37
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the_mgtor long press17:37
the_mgtand a flashlight app that always works, the current one needs unlocking in order to use ot properly17:38
coderustriple action is not supported by mce17:38
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the_mgtcoderus: then they should implement it17:39
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r0kk3rzand quadruple press17:51
r0kk3rzand sos morse code press17:51
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coderusyeah17:57
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the_mgtr0kk3rz: that would be superb18:13
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narchiecan I pay vat18:25
narchieI would also like to pay 200% vat, for the excellent service18:25
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narchiewhere can I send? optimaservice18:26
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baumuhm quick question: untill now swiping from the top of the screen did turn the screen off, how can this be done now?21:34
stephgbaum: swipe then tap, or the power button21:36
stephgI think I read somewhere that it may be reverted in a future version, or there's a patch for it21:36
stephgcan't remember now21:36
baumgood to know thanks21:36
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baumwell, i'm sure some parts of the new UI could be improved :)21:37
stephgthere's always room for improvement in everything!21:37
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baumjust wondering, do you actually use the notifiaction-view on a regulare base?21:38
baum*regular21:39
stephgbaum: me? you mean the swipe left (or right) one?21:39
baumyep21:39
stephgI guess I do21:40
stephgonly to look at, I rarely 'click through'21:40
baumi see, kinda wondering about the big focuse on it, i used mine about two times in the last halfe year21:41
stephgI guess it depends which apps you use; I have a couple of different email accounts and a bunch of android apps that have notifications21:42
stephgso that's what I see21:42
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baumhmmm i see, makes sense21:42
stephganyway, bedtime, gnight all21:44
baumnight :)21:44
stephgniight baum :D21:44
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_inte_hello someone still awake?22:12
* baum probably22:13
_inte_great22:13
_inte_regarding the oom killer22:13
_inte_according to http://lwn.net/Articles/317814/22:13
_inte_score is set in /proc/pid/oom_score22:14
_inte_however, how do i set it22:14
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_inte_the pid is frequently changing22:14
baumyour pid shouldn't change during runtime?22:15
_inte_sorry in oom_adj22:16
_inte_it is, try it yourself: ps aux|grep oom22:16
_inte_whups22:17
_inte_its too late22:17
_inte_my fault22:17
_inte_so, the pids refer to the processes running22:18
_inte_and oom_adj need to be adjusted for each to save the corresponding process from the mighty oom22:19
_inte_cant i somehow set a default value for each process22:20
_inte_or would it help to increase the nice for the processes?22:20
baumuhm, i'm sorry but i got no idea22:21
_inte_ok thx dont worry22:22
baumhowever, since it isn't a sailfish specific question i'm sure you could ask at #debian or any other distro, there should be a way more people than here22:23
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Liekeis this what you're looking for? https://together.jolla.com/question/73432/discussion-oom-killer-fine-tuning-overcommit_ratio-value/22:25
_inte_Lieke: great i think so!22:25
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_inte_is there somebody still running 1.1.7.x?22:27
_inte_and could do a "cat /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_ratio"22:27
_inte_?22:27
_inte_I'm just curious what the setting was in the former releases22:27
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_inte_I only wonder if this setting will survive a reboot22:28
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ninnnu1.1.7.28 here, overcommit_ratio is 5022:30
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_inte_oh ok thanks22:32
_inte_i only wonder why 1.1.9 oom is so much more aggressive22:32
_inte_maybe the system consumes more ram now22:32
_inte_I put it to 75 now and will see what happens22:33
_inte_ok got my first lag now :)22:34
_inte_hey but my apps are still open!22:35
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coderusafte each update someone says its more agressive :D22:39
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