#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-10-14

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SHIHUAhello02:10
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SHIHUAhow to buy tablet in China02:14
SHIHUAit just arrive to HK02:15
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lainwir3dhi07:59
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ksjif I break things while playing with openrepos software, will a "restore factory settings" really restore everything back to a working setup?09:15
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tbrthere is no certainty, but likely09:16
tbras package installation is run as root and that allows a package to possibly nuke your device into oblivion09:16
ksjthanks. I'm thinking of installing cryptsetup to setup luks containers on the sd card09:17
ksjanyone using it?09:17
tbrI personally prefer auditable packages from OBS09:17
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tbrthere I can inspect the sources and check the hash of the source archive etc09:17
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ksjsorry, what's OBS?09:28
lainwir3dBuilt system used for mer I think09:29
lainwir3dbuild*09:29
lainwir3dhttps://build.merproject.org/09:29
lainwir3d"open build service)09:29
lainwir3d"09:29
ksjahh ok, cool. thanks09:30
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ksjregretting installing cryptsetup from openrepos now...09:30
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lainwir3dNearly finished porting my apps to the tablet09:38
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lainwir3dRPNCalc : http://whisky-in-the.glass/?attachment_id=215&lang=en09:38
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lainwir3dParrot Zik Manager : http://whisky-in-the.glass/?attachment_id=216&lang=en09:38
tadzikhmm, RPN calc looks like it's actually using an infix notation, not RPN :)09:40
lainwir3dreally ?09:41
lainwir3dwell, it's not09:41
lainwir3dlol09:41
tadzikheh09:41
tadzikI expected to see 29 pi * 4050 / sin in place of sin(29*pi/4050) :)09:42
tadzikunless I misunderstand something09:42
lainwir3dhmm09:42
lainwir3dwell sympy write this notation automatically09:42
lainwir3dbut i did enter 29 *ENTER* pi *multiply* 4050 *divide* *sin*09:43
tadzikah, I see09:43
lainwir3dit's just the resulting displaying that you're seeing09:43
lainwir3dbut no brackets have been entered :P09:44
lainwir3dActually, it's in my TODO list to display a beautiful LaTeX style mathematical expression09:44
lainwir3dinstead of this parenthesis mess09:44
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mdxth_+1 for beautiful LaTeX10:29
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intehello11:51
intewhy has activesync been replaced with sailfisheas on the tablet?11:51
Stskeepsnewer impl11:52
inteI cant connect to my openXchange account from my tablet, while it works fine on the phone :(11:52
Stskeepsfile a bug11:52
intei even copied the accounts.db from my phone to the tablet and it doesnt work11:52
intedid: https://together.jolla.com/question/115211/tablet-adding-openxchange-accounts-failes-while-working-on-phone-why-has-activesync-been-replaced-with-sailfisheas/11:52
intewhat is sailfisheas, and why does it replace activesync?11:54
Stskeepstld;r the old impl was licensed; this one is own impl11:54
Stskeepslicensed and limited, too11:55
tbrit still worked better than any other mail protocol in the mail client11:55
Stskeepsnod11:55
Stskeepscouldn't have continued with old impl, so11:56
inteso they replaced the licensed one whith one that doesnt work11:56
inteso, why is the licensed version still available on the phone?11:57
tbrinte: with one that has new "features"11:57
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intetbr: haha, not a bug, a feature!11:57
tbrinte: likely a per product licensing agreement11:57
inteso jolla is out of money?11:57
the_mgtbut but but licensed stuff is evil!11:57
Stskeepsinte: no.11:57
intesure11:58
the_mgtwe dont want licensed stuff on the tablet11:58
tbrinte: more likely the old Nokia ActiveSync implementation disappeared in the woes of microsoft/nokia/foo deals11:58
intewell but make sure the unlicensed stuff works11:58
taaemexcept alien dalvik11:58
intetaaem: ++11:58
* tbr doesn't mind licensed stuff, as long as it's open source11:58
tbryou know those are not mutually exclusive11:58
inteim fine with my unlicensed kde kontact exchange client which works fine11:58
intetbr: true11:59
the_mgtinte: the activesync part is one thing why I did not get the whole "please dont use crowdfoudned money on exFat" whining11:59
tbrthough, considering how commercial exchange is, I guess they'll consider the implementation a strategic asset11:59
intethe_mgt: yeah didnt get that either11:59
intebut dont mind anyways12:00
tbralso I'm rather sure the new implementation still requires a license from microsoft (like the previous one).12:00
intewell but it doesnt work!12:00
the_mgtfor the sake of human rights, exchange should be banned. no admin deserves to be tortured with adminstering exchange servers12:00
tbrfor there are many license12:00
intethe_mgt: openxchange is pretty and uses the same protocol12:01
intehowever, cant connect to the openxchange server offered from my provider12:01
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tbras usual, new software, new bugs and features12:02
the_mgtinte: there are so many nice groupwares out there, openxchange still is a pita to install12:02
inteif openxchange is open, and the "new" salfisheas is open as well, i would suggest to make it work12:02
intethe_mgt: kolab is also cool12:02
inteits more kdeish12:02
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tbrinte: well, you have a device, you can check if there is a source package for it in the repositories12:02
intehowever, there is really no need to install the genuine exchange by microsoft12:02
the_mgtthe need for exchange rises because outlook is installed first12:03
inteapart from the fact that exchange server are getting more and more expensive, since microsoft wants to pull smaller companies in the cloud12:03
the_mgtblessed are those, that chose not to follow this evil path. and installed tb or something else in the first place12:03
Milo-so.. estimates on which contributor numbers have already received an invitation for the second batch?12:04
* tbr guesses: 012:04
Milo-co-worker with order number 210-229 just got his invitation12:04
JvD_i just got invite12:04
inteInstalliert     buteo-sync-plugins-sailfisheas-0.0.2-10.3.3.jolla.i486  Buteo plugins for Exchange ActiveSync12:04
inteInstalliert     qmf-eas-plugin-0.0.14-10.7.2.jolla.i486         Exchange ActiveSync plugin for QMF12:04
Milo-that bastard12:04
lainwir3d:o12:04
JvD_and payed my taxes12:05
Milo-hate that guy12:05
intetbr: thats all for sailfisheas12:05
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inteim quite surprised the tablet feels somewhat laggy from time to time12:05
Stskeepsfixes coming for that12:06
intewould have expected to be much more fluent12:06
inteeven the oom is killing everything as on the phone12:06
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the_mgtjammern auf hohem niveau, again? :P12:06
intelike, if you have the browser open with several tabs, all apps in background are closed12:06
the_mgtwhat is "several"12:07
the_mgt?12:07
intethe_mgt: like 4 tabs12:07
intebigger pages12:07
intewith javascript on it12:07
intethat e.g. settings in background would close12:07
Milo-Stskeeps please confirm that the new batch finishes the first indiegogo pledge batch.. 1000 devices.12:07
intethe browser need some work at least12:08
intei guess its somewhat a memory hole12:08
StskeepsMilo-: oh god, i'm so not a person to confirm anything12:08
StskeepsMilo-: i drink too much, as a start12:08
Milo-shame :p12:08
Stskeeps:P12:08
inteand its crashing pretty often12:08
Milo-that first 200 device batch was such a wet towel for everyone who ordered within the first 100012:08
* Yaniel redesigns own webpage to be more mobile and tablet friendly12:08
lainwir3dhmmm12:08
lainwir3dyeah the OOMKiller is quite easy to offend on the tablet12:09
inteYaniel: + :)12:09
lainwir3dI wouldn't actually be surprised if he managed to commit suicide12:09
intelainwir3d: hehe12:09
lainwir3deven playing videos sometimes trigger it12:09
intelainwir3d: its really surprising since the tablet has far better hardware than the phone, it sometimes feels more laggy12:10
tbrmaybe it comes with a side serving of "memory leeks" (sic!)12:10
intehowever, sf2.0 is somewhat useable on the tablet since the tablet is that big and one needs both hands anyways12:10
inteim still waiting for warehouse being available for x8612:11
lainwir3dinte: yeah, but as Stskeeps said, there is an update coming for the performance problem12:11
lainwir3dbut I noticed that too12:11
lainwir3dThere is a thread I believe TJC12:12
lainwir3din12:12
mornfallinte: it also has far more pixels to push12:13
lainwir3dhere : https://together.jolla.com/question/114861/jolla-tablet-lagging/12:13
lainwir3dwith an answer12:13
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PaulePanterHi. I am in Germany with O2/Telefonica on the Jolla phone.16:10
PaulePanterI often receive SMS messages twice. Is that a known problem?16:10
PaulePanter(and other mobile operating systems just work around by not showing them?)16:11
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SiddePaulePanter: seems that some people atleast experiences this16:13
Siddehttps://together.jolla.com/question/22782/bug-phone-receive-same-sms-many-times/16:13
PaulePanterSidde: Thanks. It’s still present in the latest release.16:17
SiddePaulePanter: if you make some noise in here to the right people someone might know more. a few employees of Jolla are here16:18
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PatchoulyaHello everyone!16:30
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noumeHi Patchoulya16:31
PatchoulyaSo, guys, with my Jolla Phone I can`t connect to Wi-Fi which protected via 801.2x protocol. Is this software or hardware problem? And does it have any solutions?16:33
PatchoulyaDo you know something about it?16:33
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Patchoulya>So, guys, with my Jolla Phone I can`t connect to Wi-Fi which protected via 801.2x protocol. Is this software or hardware problem? And does it have any solutions?16:56
PatchoulyaBump16:56
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coderusPatchoulya: probably you can find answer in tjc16:56
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Patchoulyacoderus: what is tjc?16:57
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cb400fhttp://together.jolla.com16:58
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Patchoulyathx16:58
eugenioPatchoulya, https://together.jolla.com/question/315/how-to-wpa-8021x-enterprise-eduroam-others-gui-wifi-support-needed-workaround/16:59
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coderusPatchoulya: its main place to ask questions17:03
coderussailfish browser have it in default bookmarks :)17:04
Patchoulyacoderus, eugenio thx guys, u r the best17:04
Patchoulyacoderus: I prefer the "Web Pirate"17:04
eugenio:)17:06
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Nicd-Patchoulya: don't "bump" in IRC and don't repeat yourself17:14
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tanghusJeez, I keep on getting annoyed over the missing swipe-to-close gesture :(18:05
Lieke_you can enable swipe to close in the settings18:06
tanghusLieke_: Sry, I meant swipe-to-lock. Swipe-to-close was the first thing I reenabled.18:07
Lieke_yeah, i feel you18:08
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chem|sttanghus: will take a while but I actually manage to use it blindly now18:12
chem|stas the menu does pull in always no matter how far you pull18:12
tanghuschem|st: I probably will too, but it's not in my muscle memory yet18:13
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chem|sttanghus: yeah I felt that pain... but still, on tablet it does feel very odd18:14
tanghuschem|st: Really? I thought it would be better suited for the tablet18:14
chem|st1.1.9 on tablet feels like 1.0 on phone18:14
chem|sttanghus: actually not18:14
tanghusHmm18:15
chem|stbecause of the size you barely grab it in a way you can build muscle memory18:15
chem|stalso the buttons being on the other side and upside down helps a lot with doing it wrong... I increase volume instead of locking it18:16
tanghusYeah, I can imagine that now you say it.18:16
chem|stpeople say "it is a tablet UI now18:16
chem|st"18:16
chem|stbut they actually miss that it works way better on the phone than on the tablet18:17
tanghusIf they could make it act like https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/qml-sailfishsilica-sailfish-silica-pulldownmenu.html/#quickSelect-prop18:17
chem|steveryhting is just scaled up it seems18:17
chem|stkbd in landscape is aweful to use18:17
tanghusSo a phone UI on a tablet and a tablet UI on a phone - just great ;)18:18
chem|sttanghus: I do not see it as a tablet UI18:18
chem|stmost of the stuff people complain about are left overs for me18:18
chem|stlike they did want to push it to the phone but not everything is working yet18:19
tanghuschem|st: The horizontal swipe to unlock is imo18:19
chem|styeah, just pull the launcher!18:19
friesehei guys, do any of you use a smartwatch together with sailfish os? i'm wondering which platform would be the best supported. the pebble looks nice sw-side, though there are so many nice android wear-watches, but that doesn't seem to be that sailfish-compatible...18:19
chem|stit is meh on the tab too18:20
chem|stfriese: new BLE watches will probably not work yet18:20
chem|stfriese: I fancy a Moto360.2 or a LG Urban18:21
chem|st'an'18:21
chem|stotoh, sailfish-wear to counter android-wear would be awesome...18:22
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friesemost important thing for me is solid notification syncing - pebble seems to work but if i read around in forums there also seem to be many issues still18:22
chem|standroid+BT has issues afaik18:23
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chem|stbut there is a native service for pebble iirc18:23
frieseright now im using an standalone smartwatch with it's own cell modem which is working nice, but its very heavy & big and the battery only lasts 1-2 days18:23
frieseyup, thats what i mean18:24
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chem|sthmm 1-2 days? Some 2014 smartwatches barely get to the second day :)18:25
friesealso i don't really fancy running android all the time, only need that very seldomly and battery life improved massively since shutting it down18:25
friesewell if i'm using it a lot i can get it empty in under 2 hours ;)18:25
chem|stfriese: ah some apps lock android in a limbo state, sound left on and stuff, that is what drains the battery18:25
friesebut that's only if wifi, bt, gps are activated and screen brightness is up -> so not really day-to-day use ;)18:26
chem|stI'd really like to get rid of android completely, s00n!18:26
chem|stfriese: well good luck, maybe find a place where you can test stuff before you buy one18:27
chem|stand please report back if you find anything useful ;)18:27
friesechem|st:yeah, those were already gone, ist mostly all these google-services running in the background (yeah, i've got play store installed...)18:27
friesewell, i'm sure to do that18:27
friesesadly i'm living in a very rural area, and theres nobody i know which actually has a pebble18:28
sakustarcan someone explain why people buy smartwatches18:29
friesetoo lazy to pull my phone out every time i get an notification - mostly ;)18:30
SQUelchersakustar: or tablets..18:30
TemeVsakustar: why people biy smat phones18:30
TemeV*buy18:30
TemeV*smart18:30
TemeVI can almost type18:30
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sakustarsmartphones i understand.. but the clocks seem like a waste :(18:31
TemeVwell, then don't buy one18:32
sakustarbut i want to want one!18:32
kimmolino. you don't.18:33
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sakustarmy current watch is too complex for me already18:33
kimmolithis is not the gadget you are looking for.18:33
sakustar:D18:33
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sakustari only bought a tablet since it had a core i5 inside18:34
friesehumm, some days i do indeed leave my smartwatch at home and use a good old-fashioned casio "regular"-watch (and sometimes i get so crazy i even leave my smartphone at home, though thats mostly by accident ;)18:34
sakustarstill its mainly used for placing cups on so i dont mess the desk :(18:34
kimmolimy watch has 2 buttons, one dial, which can be pulled to two levels, 5 pointers, and no batteries.18:35
sakustarno batteries? does it work with magic18:35
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sakustari broke my watch and am forced to cope with a 'wrist computer' (suunto whatever with too many buttons)18:38
sakustarwatch should not need a 400 page manual :-(18:38
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Patchoulyahttp://i.imgur.com/CJPr64b.png18:42
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r0kk3rzive been thinking there needs to be more smart bands than smart watches21:41
r0kk3rzas really i dont need a screen, just vibrate on alert really21:41
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kimmolii'm waiting for my Kairos T-band21:47
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pdanekIntex21:52
pdanekwhere are youuu21:52
pdaneksledges: here?21:55
pdanekkimmoli: What is Kairos OS based on?21:56
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kimmolipropably some microcontroller stuff, proprietary iirc21:57
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r0kk3rzkimmoli: screen or no screen?21:57
kimmoliOD21:59
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r0kk3rzlooks the goods anyway22:01
r0kk3rzhave fun getting it working with sailfish22:01
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pdanekI need sledges22:15
pdanekto tell me if I should preorder Fairphone or not :D22:15
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r0kk3rzpdanek: the early bird version is gone22:21
r0kk3rzso theres actually nothing to gain from ordering before an announcement22:21
r0kk3rzim wondering whether they are holding the announcement for SLUSH22:22
r0kk3rzbecause its been a few weeks since the thing in london22:22
pdanekr0kk3rz:  but do you actually think it will be better than upcoming intex devices?22:23
r0kk3rzno idea22:24
r0kk3rz'better' is a bit of a subjective term22:24
r0kk3rzeither you buy into what fairphone are trying to do, or you dont22:24
pdanekI didn't buy into it22:25
r0kk3rzthe design of it is totally experimental, nobody has released a phone built like that22:25
pdanekI just care about hardware22:25
pdanekI don't care about being modular or being "fair" too much22:25
r0kk3rzits bound to have issues down the line, due to its pogopin everywhere approach22:25
pdanekright22:26
r0kk3rzcompared to the usual fully integrated device approach anyway22:26
pdanekfully integrated is fine for me22:26
pdanekjust want high spec22:26
pdanek1GB ram is absolutely totally not enough22:26
pdanekmy apps are getting killed every few minutes22:26
pdanekI worry even 2GB won't be enough for my multitasking on Jolla22:27
r0kk3rzwith 2gb you can reserve half of it for zram22:27
pdanekI would like at least Qualcomm 6xx series with 3GB ram Intex22:27
r0kk3rzwhich will give you 1gb main ram with 2gb ramswap22:27
pdanek2GB not enough22:28
pdanekI thought it is22:28
pdanekbut with android daemon in background now, it's not22:28
r0kk3rz2gb should be plenty22:28
r0kk3rz1gb is a little bit tight22:28
pdanekI usually run in background (most of the time):22:29
pdanekandroid apps: viber, line, skype, telegram, gmail22:29
pdaneksailfish apps: youtube player, settings, browser, dialer, messages22:29
pdanekthat itself fills 2GB easily22:30
pdanekI would imagine 3GB to be sufficient22:30
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r0kk3rz4 messaging apps? yeah ok22:31
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pdanekI didn't add hangouts22:32
pdanekand irc22:32
pdanek:D22:32
pdanekit's a lot22:32
pdanekwith 1GB, my sailfish youtube app gets killed every time I minimize it22:33
pdanekthat's why I love sailfish, multitasking22:33
pdanekbut I need memory for that22:33
noumeMaybe they should be fixing the memory leaks? Can't remember having so many oom situations and apps getting killed like just after the 1.1.9.28 upgrade22:33
pdanekperhaps22:33
pdanekI didn't either22:33
noumei mean having an audio player killed while opening a text file is just rdiculous22:34
noumeThere's some discussion going on at TJC. But 2 or more GB RAM would be nice in the Jolla phone 2.0 ;)22:36
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pdanekhttp://intex.in/intex-sailfish-os/images/b3-phone.png22:46
pdanekIs this real Intex?22:46
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the_mgtpdanek: looks interesting23:09
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