#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2015-10-15

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coderusPaulePanter: liiks like a CGI05:37
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pp_yay, I get to pay taxes, finally!05:58
pp_order #370, interesting to see how big this batch was :-)06:04
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armine was #258, and it's in front of me on my desk now06:06
ar(got it yesterday)06:06
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kidWhere does one find the ordernumber?06:54
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pp_email "Jolla Shop: confirmation for your order #1400000370"06:58
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pp_(the first #14 is most likely "finland vs. eu vs. russia vs. us")06:59
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kidah, but I only have such an e-mail for the Jolla phone. Maybe I wont get it before I have completed the order for the tablet in the Jolla shop.07:03
* kid is part of First Sailors, but have not received an invitation yet…07:04
*** electrolux_off is now known as electrolux07:04
tanghusWeird. 1. I have all sounds off. 2. The vibrator (or what it's called) has always been very subtle - like a fly landing. I read somewhere that shaking the phone coul loosen the vibrator, so I tried that. It doesn't vibrate better, but it turned sound on for IM msgs...07:04
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* tbr wonders if he was that late in queue... the email is from 9:17z 07:14
tbrwhere is my damn invitation *grumble*07:14
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Stskeepstbr: what size of emmc?07:17
pp_this was enough to get the invite yesterday: From service@intl.paypal.com  Wed Nov 19 11:19:25 201407:17
tbrStskeeps: 3207:18
* tbr didn't bother to splash for the upgrade07:19
pp_yah, you were two minutes before me, I got the upgrade :-)07:20
tbrso much for "strictly in order" !@)#$07:20
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TemeVStskeeps: so ones with 64GB are shipping first?07:21
StskeepsTemeV: i don't know, to be honest07:21
TemeVit just seems that way to me :)07:21
TemeVIf I'd known that I would have upgraded! (propably)07:22
StskeepsTemeV: my duties rely on getting the damn things working, tablet was on my desk first day of it's product lives07:22
tbrif that's true, then I will have few choice words for the hypocrites and their "strictly in order of contribution"07:22
TemeVStskeeps: yes, of course07:22
tbrway to go, you didn't give us more money, here, screw you, no tablet for you until everyone who paid for the upgrade gets his07:23
TemeVtbr: well I got the invitation but not the tablet yet so at least some 32GB ones should be shipping07:23
StskeepsTemeV: you're 32gb?07:24
TemeVyes07:24
tbrhrm07:24
Stskeepsmy logic would have been that one batch would be one type of pcb, personally07:24
Stskeepsbut i reaaaaly don't know07:25
fluxsoo, some folks have already received theirs'? is it awesome?07:25
Armadillosome already received it last week I think07:26
tbrStskeeps: it would at least explain me missing out on the 0 wave07:26
Stskeepstbr: i should really go on a factory visit at some point07:26
TemeVtbr: you might have missed the first wave just because you were too late :)07:27
tbrTemeV: I checked and someone with a later mail timestamp got in07:27
TemeVoh07:27
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tbrto be clear. I don't mind if I missed 0 wave because of the emmc. I'll get pissed if I miss 1st wave due to that07:29
TemeVoh the first tablets are "0 wave". Well I guess emmc doesn't affect because I'm in the 0 wave with 32GB07:31
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StskeepsTemeV: but you first got invitation now?07:32
pp_tho I guess making igg contribution and actually paying with paypal are separate things07:33
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TemeVStskeeps: I got the invitation with the first ones and paid my taxes like three weeks ago.07:39
Stskeepshmm07:39
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lpotterI'm still waiting as well07:47
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TemeVIt's not like I'm in a hurry to get it (anymore, it would have been nice to carry it instead of a laptop on my vacation)07:52
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chem|stTemeV: check your spamfolder, my shipping notice was sitting there for 3 days until I noticed08:02
chem|stTemeV: or are you from an exotic country (exotic like in snailmail and import exotic)08:02
entilhow many people are there in a wave?08:03
entilor shipments or whatever08:03
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lainwir3do/08:07
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chem|stentil: afaik first was a couple of undead... then is is going to be more and more until all are served08:25
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entilundead :D08:53
entila friend of mine's just wondering where his is, but he's not exactly sure on how many orderd before him08:53
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entilso he doesn't know which wave he's in08:53
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TemeVchem|st: good tip, but no spam from Jolla :/ I'm from Finland which is quite exotic, but should be familiar grounds for Jolla :)09:11
TemeVI always forget to check the spam folder when waiting for some email09:11
TemeVI should change away from gmail though, the spam filter is awful09:12
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narchiejolla tablet10:45
narchiemay201510:45
narchiejolla VAT10:45
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narchiedoes jolla tablet also have battery service included?10:49
narchiecan I send it to optima already, it's not dying yet but I want that feature back10:50
narchieor what is it today, funnymobi or something10:50
AciidshillOS10:51
narchiesoon10:52
Nicd-narchie: maybe you should go if you have nothing to say except stupid trolling10:55
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Aciidwhich comes first tax return or jolla tablet?10:57
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narchiewell10:58
narchieatleast10:58
narchieI got confirmation10:58
narchiefor tax return already10:58
narchieso10:58
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Lieke_i put narchie on the ignore list months ago, feels good11:01
Azogtax return? how can i get this?11:01
Nicd-Azog: first you need to pay taxes. then you need to pay too much of them11:03
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Azogah, that is general taxes, not taxes for the tablet11:05
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TemeVLieke_: not a bad idea, I have to consider that11:06
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fluxgah, there is this one weekly event that I have already removed everywhere.. but it still alarms me every thursday. and the more annoying thing is that if I close or acknowledge it, it comes back. maybe immediately, maybe after a while.11:12
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flux->reboot11:15
flux(journalctl didn't show anything interesting)11:16
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*** inte_away is now known as inte12:10
intehello12:10
intemy phone battery is dead12:10
intedid anybody tried these already: http://m.ebay.de/itm/PolarCell-Akku-Jolla-Phone-JP-1301-22B50-Accu-Batterie-Battery-Acku-Sailfish-1-/371429134496?nav=SEARCH12:11
intetry12:11
intehas anybody tried12:11
inte:)12:11
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coderusmany peoples tried12:12
coderusthis is just htc desire 310 battery12:12
rengelpitää olla rusinoita12:12
rengeloho väärä12:12
intejeah saw that12:12
intebut is it ok in the jolla?12:13
coderussearch in tmo and tjc for reports12:13
coderusthere are many12:13
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intedid and found nothing in tjc12:13
coderusin short: yes its okk12:13
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intebut well not so easy to find sth in tjc12:14
Armadilloth tjc search is crap12:14
Armadillo*the12:14
coderushttps://www.google.ru/search?q=together+jolla+htc+310+battery12:14
intecoderus ok thx i think ill give it a try12:14
coderusArmadillo: yeah, almost unusable12:14
intehaha ok through google nice:)12:14
coderuseven quick search options while you typing is more correct, than results after pressing enter :D12:15
Armadilloyou can search on Google an add the site parameter, e.g.: +site:together.jolla.com12:15
coderusArmadillo: sure, ut i'm lazy :D12:15
Armadillo:D12:15
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andybransoni've been reading a few of those lately, as my battery's getting a bit poor12:16
andybransonthere was a great study on one of the blogs, and i think the polarcell came out top12:16
intecool thx12:16
inteill go for the polarcell then12:16
andybransonbut none of them have a temperature sensor that the jolla can use12:16
noumeinte: I have recently bought a genuine HTC Desire 310 battery and it works a treat, the battery life is not much different from the original Jolla, even seems to be slightly better.12:17
andybransonso thermal cutoff doesn't work, which stops the battery exploding if it gets too hto12:17
andybransonthat's quite unlikely, but be aware of the risk12:17
andybransonsome folks said that a lot of these aftermarket batteries have fake temperature sensors in them in the first place though12:18
intei guess i can live with that risk12:18
andybransonso you're not really risking much extra12:18
inteits getting winter anyways:)12:18
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inteyeah12:19
intejust kidding for the winter remark;)12:19
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andybransonhere's the article. this guy went above and beyond the call of duty on this one:12:21
andybransonhttp://reviewjolla.blogspot.ch/2015/09/test-compatible-batteries-for-jolla.html12:21
andybransonthat polarcell isn't made for jolla though. you might be able to find the same one cheaper elsewhere, but labelled as a desire 310 replacement.12:22
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kimmolistay away from the "gold"12:22
noumeuhm, after having cracked open around 80 laptop battery packs not even all of those do have working thermistors in them and even if they do, they won't help much if the cell is already in a thermal runaway condition. If you want to play safe you could swap the electronics from the dead Jolla batery with the newly bough DEsire 310 ones12:22
intewhatever. just clicked on "buy" already and i dont feel in the mood for endless searching :)12:23
andybransonthat doesn't sound like playing safe to me :)12:23
noumeTo someone like me who has around 20 years of experience in electronics it does ;)12:23
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noumeThe lipo cell itself appears to be quite similar, only the protection PCB is obviously different12:24
noumeAnd i can confirm that the Jolla phone does not display the temperature with the HTC battery inserted12:24
noumeSo if you do use one, take extra care12:25
andybransoncan i use a hammer for that? :D12:25
inteebay website doesnt work with jolla12:25
intecant select the method for payment12:26
noumeThat somehow reminds me of photonvids on youtube xD He alwas uses a hammer when he doesn't get the result he was aiming for ;)12:26
noumeinte: Have you trieb webpirate instead?12:26
inteno not yet12:27
intejust wanted to mention another bug:)12:27
noumeThe review is wuite insightful, thanks for that andybranson12:28
andybransonyou're welcome. has anyone tried the x-longer one? it wasn't covered by that test.12:30
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henkhey, I installed the "warehouse" app store and some apps from it. Is there any way to uninstall all apps installed using it? or phrased differently: uninstall all packages not belonging to the core distri or installed using the official app store?14:01
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Yanielto the system there is no difference between warehouse apps and official apps14:06
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Raimhenk: you could get a list with 'zypper packages -i |grep openrepos'14:09
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henkYaniel: Yeah, but the jolla store seems to be able to list the apps installed from the jolla store, while listing the installed packages in warehouse seems to list all installed packages. I was hoping I could somehow use these lists to filter …14:10
henkRaim: I’ll try that, thanks14:10
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henkRaim: hm, I get »bash: zypper: command not found«14:13
henkas root14:13
Raimhenk: hm, then I must have installed it manually.14:17
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henkzypper is not in the jolla store, so to be able to uninstall all unofficial software I would need to install unofficial software? (:14:20
Stskeepspkcon?14:21
Stskeeps:P14:21
henkStskeeps: No idea what that is, will take a look, thanks14:22
Raimit's not in the store, but it's in official repos14:22
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henkRaim: hmm, official repos? Not heard about that either yet, where can I find info about those?14:23
chem|stRaim: and then someone does zypper dist-upgrade and wonders why his phone is bricked14:23
Stskeepspkcon is a command for controlling packagekit which controls libzypp14:23
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chem|sthenk: there is only one additional repo, has all the usually unnecessary CLI tools and stuff (mer)14:24
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henkhrm, 'pkcon get-details SirenSong-Media-Player' says 'More than one package matches:' and lists 4 versions, with one being 'installed' and the other three being available from an openrepos repo. I guess I can deduce from that where an installed package comes from.14:27
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henkhttp://pastie.org/10483661 shows my 'pkcon repo-list'. The 'openrepos-*' repos are obviously not official. Are all others official?14:28
Stskeepsssu lr gives a good hint14:29
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henkStskeeps: indeed, thanks14:30
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henkIs ssu an abbreviation? What does it mean?14:32
henkor what is it part of?14:32
tbrIIRC sthg like secure software update14:33
henkreason I’m asking: want to find docs for it14:33
eugenioseamless software update14:33
tbrlook around maemo, that's where the concept originally came from. the jolla implementation doesn't have much in common though14:34
henkah, I see14:34
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henkRaim, Stskeeps, chem|st, eugenio, tbr: Thank you very much for the infos (: I have enough to read and tinker some more now. I’ll try to report back when I find a solution or be back with more questions (; have a nice one14:35
eugeniohave fun :)14:36
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Hellewell, shit, my phone's speaker mode speaker broke15:54
Helle(only noticed now as it's normally on vibrate or I use headphones15:55
StskeepsHelle: contact care15:55
HelleStskeeps: I know, just being annoyed right now15:55
Helleso venting a little15:55
Stskeepsnod15:55
Stskeepshardware is hard15:55
lainwir3d:15:56
lainwir3d:o15:56
Stskeepslainwir3d: any more trouble with the display?15:57
Helleit's a silly problem as it, now that I think of it, probably broke 3 weeks ago15:58
HelleI just use the speaker mode that little15:58
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PaulePanterHi. My touch pad does not work anymore. The buttons can turn it on and off and the volumes keys work, but I am unable to slide.16:28
PaulePanterThat’s the first time this happens. Any ideas besides restarting it?16:28
r0kk3rzPaulePanter: triple press the power button16:29
r0kk3rzwill override the prox sensor16:29
r0kk3rzif thats the problem anyway16:29
r0kk3rzbut its happened to be a few times, restarting fixed it16:30
PaulePanterThanks, but that didn’t help.16:30
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PaulePanterr0kk3rz: Restarting indeed fixed it. :(16:34
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rigoHi all, does anybody know about a native jolla client for telegram? https://telegram.org/17:12
rigoIt would be interesting to have one as this is a very privacy friendly application17:12
eugeniothere is sailorgram17:13
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Hellebecause you know, you really can trust Russians writing closed source software17:13
eugenioand jollagram, but AFAIK it's abandoned17:13
eugeniorigo, https://openrepos.net/content/dax/sailorgram17:13
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rigothanks eugenio17:13
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baumby chance anyone is aware of an cli-desktop client for sailfish?17:21
baum(or any other client which supports vi shortcuts)17:21
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TemeVrigo: just remember, telegram is basically no more secure than whatsapp and the encyption is not strong17:36
* Stskeeps uses ricochet17:36
TemeVOtherwise Telegram is nice service17:37
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rigohm, no more secure than Whatsapp?17:37
r0kk3rzStskeeps: special doesnt seem to be targetting the mass market with ricochet though17:37
r0kk3rzmore specific super secret cases like journalists and such17:38
rigoStskeeps: URI for ricochet?17:38
Stskeepsrigo: https://ricochet.im/17:38
Stskeepsnot a telegram client17:38
* rigo has still N9 but all others around me have jolla17:38
r0kk3rzrigo: whatsapp uses the textsecure protocol these days17:38
r0kk3rzwell, textsecure encryption i should say17:39
rigor0kk3rz: but is subject to FISA17:39
rigothe issue is not insufficient encryption, the issue is a legal entity in the US17:39
r0kk3rzwell its supposed to be encrypted end to end17:39
r0kk3rzso whatsapp doesnt know the contents of the message to give to the NSA regardless of secret orders17:40
rigobut what's the fuzz about whatsapp then?17:40
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* rigo has no time for such toys17:40
r0kk3rzthat said, they could get ordered to backdoor it, since there are no thirdparty servers17:40
rigoah17:41
r0kk3rzsame thing with telegram really, only one entity controls the servers17:41
r0kk3rzexcept instead of the NSA, its the russian authorities17:41
rigothey don't read english :-o17:42
r0kk3rzim sure they can manage17:42
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Stskeepstelegram isn't russian authorities17:42
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Stskeepsit should be pretty clear by the history around the founder and VK17:42
* baum uses tox17:42
rigohm, I see some need for interoperability between those services. IRC still works :)17:43
r0kk3rzStskeeps: i was unaware of specific history, only that VK was basically the ruski facebook17:43
rigoTelegram servers are spread worldwide for security and speed.17:43
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Durov17:43
baumrigo: so are tox servers :P17:44
baum*nodes17:44
taaemLet's all use IRC for everything and be happy :-D17:45
r0kk3rzStskeeps: very well then, good on him for standing up to them17:45
Stskeepsirc is shit for security unless you trust the server owner17:46
Stskeepsall messages are readable by the servers that relay your messages17:46
r0kk3rzand these channels publish public logs, so...17:46
rigoyes, but if you have a private server, it's pretty cool. We have a nice private server in W3C :)17:47
Stskeepsrigo: what do you run of sw, ooi?17:47
taaembut most people still use whatsapp....17:48
taaemsadly they don't care about smaller OSs17:49
Stskeepswe should as humans just be able to communicate person to person directly17:49
Stskeepsthrough digital enhancements17:49
Stskeeps:P17:49
rigoStskeeps: I frankly don't know as I'm none of the W3C IRC gods17:49
Stskeepsrigo: hehe, ok17:49
rigoand the welcome message doesn't tell17:49
Stskeepsrigo: my history is doing irc daemon software, one of the first to include ssl/tls17:50
Stskeepsand encrypting network links, etc17:50
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rigoah, ngircd17:50
rigoyes, all encrypted and only private channels &&17:50
* baum thinking of it, i should start using irc & OTR17:50
rigobaum, I use OTR with jabber17:50
rigook folks, thanks so much, dinner time now17:51
r0kk3rzpoor jabber seems to be going by the wayside a little bit17:51
baumpfff jabber....what happened to the good old p2p?17:52
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* Stskeeps never liked jabber17:53
* baum didn't actually meet that many people who use whatsapp, most of the time the question is: do you have email?17:54
r0kk3rzbaum: loads of people use whatsapp17:54
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baumr0kk3rz: out of my head i only know 317:55
baumguess my people are stuck a few decades behind17:55
r0kk3rzaside from a couple of features, i dont really see the big deal17:56
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r0kk3rzbut i guess its the first 'instant messenger' to take off after sms, so it has critical mass17:57
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r0kk3rzmobile instant messenger i mean17:57
baumto each it's own i guess :)17:58
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taaemFor me like everybody uses Whatsapp, nearly all my Contacts on my phone which are quite many ...17:58
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baumtaaem: maybe it's time to question the people you hang out with? =P17:59
SmarI wish people used something else than whatsapp —.—18:00
taaembaum: haha maybe but at my school you need whatsapp otherwise you would miss so much :/18:00
baumtaaem: alright, what would you miss?18:00
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r0kk3rzbaum: school drama obviously, but perhaps thats a feature18:01
taaembaum: when my class is meeting somewhere, homework, free lessons, and for meeting with other people18:01
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baumr0kk3rz: probably, i just wanted to let him figure it out on his own :)18:02
baumtaaem: means your school forces you to use whatsapp in order to be able to attend the lectures?18:02
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r0kk3rzsounds horrible18:03
baumyep18:04
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baumtaaem: plus you are implying that other people wouldn't bother to meet you if you wouldn't have whatsapp18:04
baumwhich leaves the question wether you actually want to meet these people :)18:04
taaembaum: not official but under the students its always that you write on whatsapp18:04
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* Stskeeps stands by that we should just be able to communicate directly person to person using digital brain enhancements, with no middlemen18:05
Stskeeps:P18:05
Stskeepsthis messenger split of populace is insane :)18:05
taaemand for making up time to meet its just comfortable because everybody has it18:05
taaemStskeeps: thats of course another story :D18:05
taaembut if you would want that...18:05
baumnow this implys that you wouldn't bother to meet people who don't have it =18:05
baum=/18:05
r0kk3rzStskeeps: that sounds oppressive, not entirely sure i like the idea of letting people randomly project their thoughts into my head at will18:06
eugeniohad the same experience as taaem18:06
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eugeniofortunately now as I finished high school I can drop Whatsapp completely once one of the Telegram clients matures enough18:07
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taaemI am still wondering what SoluMachines will announce in the next hours...18:08
* baum got the impression that certain parts of society are way too much dependend on IMs18:08
taaembaum: kinda true18:08
eugeniothey are18:08
r0kk3rzcommunication makes a lot of things easier though18:09
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r0kk3rztaaem: i still think its going to be skynet18:10
baumr0kk3rz: meeting in the pub and drinking wisky makes the communication easier =P18:10
r0kk3rzbaum: yes, and you use IM to get your friends to the pub18:10
Tegujust don't bother to meet anyone so there's no need to communicate18:10
r0kk3rzbaum: and also to abuse the ones who dont turn up18:11
baumr0kk3rz: most of the time i just talk with people directly, like: let's meet tomorrow 7o'clock in the park18:12
baumdone - no IM required18:12
taaembaum: you call them?18:12
Siddedrinks, whisky! who's buying? when can i show up?18:13
taaemand then there is snapchat :-D18:13
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baumtaaem: i usually run into them, if not i call them/they call me18:13
r0kk3rzbaum: younger people seem to be quite flaky these days, and will bail at the last moment if there isnt a 'yes we're still doing this' text or something18:13
r0kk3rzthe idea that you can make plans in advance and keep them seems to be lost18:14
baumoh, and did i already mention that i got a doorbell? :P18:14
taaemdoorbells are so old school :P18:15
r0kk3rzbaum: its also hard for me to ring the doorbell of my friends back home in australia18:15
r0kk3rzjust sayin18:15
baumr0kk3rz: well in this case drinking wisky together might just be as hard18:15
r0kk3rzthis is also true18:16
r0kk3rztimezones kinda ruin that a bit18:16
* baum is living in his very own timezone =P18:17
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baumanyways, back to OCaml :)18:18
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