#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2015-10-17

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Teemuhttp://www.iltasanomat.fi/digi/art-1444972404275.html06:08
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Nicd-maybe that's better for #jollasuomi07:29
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intemoin09:34
Nicd-inte: no mitä mies?09:34
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inte:)09:37
zebbiz_piMy camera won't start09:39
inteNicd-: vielä?09:39
zebbiz_piAnyone else had this problem?09:39
Nicd-inte: niin että miten menee?09:39
Stskeepszebbiz_pi: not sailpi, i presume..09:39
zebbiz_piStskeeps: Raspberry Pi09:40
zebbiz_pissh from my laptop09:40
zebbiz_piBut I'm talking about the camera on my jolla phone09:40
inteNicd-: erittäin hyvä, minulla on hauskaa minun Jolla Tablet :)09:40
Stskeepszebbiz_pi: version?09:40
zebbiz_pia second reboot fixed it09:41
zebbiz_piodd...09:41
intewell, google translate is giving me a hard time :)09:41
zebbiz_piStskeeps: latest according to the phones09:41
zebbiz_pi1.1.9.2809:41
inteNicd-: is "moin" actually finish as well?09:41
Temppu-Temeit's not, "moi" = "hi"09:42
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inteTemppu-Teme: ah09:42
Nicd-inte: Finnish*09:42
intemoin is (northern)german with actually the same meaning09:42
inteNicd-: ah, sure sorry :)09:43
Nicd-you should have replied with "I don't know Finnish, sorry" and I would have replied with "that's funny, I don't know German either"09:43
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inteHehe didnt Google translate perform good? :)09:44
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nanderHmm, where is the change/create ambience option in the latest sailfish version10:02
nanderI can't find the button10:02
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Nicd-nander: settings -> system -> ambience to modify them10:03
Nicd-to create a new one go to a photo in the gallery and choose "Create ambience" from the pulldown menu10:04
Nicd-just like before10:04
nanderOk, thankw10:04
nanderThanks*10:04
nanderIt seems my sound is muted, apart from the ambience, is that possible?10:05
nanderBy the way, is there a way to make swipe down kill application instead of change application?10:06
Nicd-yes, in the gesture settings10:07
Nicd-quick close10:07
Nicd-you should go through all the settings to see what is new :P10:08
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inteactivesync is broken on the tablet10:10
intei wonder when it will be fixed10:10
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intejust send my eas logs to some jolla guy10:10
intenice reply on tjc: https://together.jolla.com/question/115211/tablet-adding-openxchange-accounts-failes-while-working-on-phone-why-has-activesync-been-replaced-with-sailfisheas/10:11
intethx jolla10:11
intenander: if you hit the volume button by mistake it will mute your sound now10:11
intenander: there is (of course) a fix for it on OR :)10:11
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lainwir3dand you have two sound settings : ringtone and "media"10:12
lainwir3don the tablet you can change "media" volume with a 3 fingers vertical slide10:12
intenander: as there is for the cover actions (pulldownswupe), and for the quick lock gesture10:12
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intenander: OR is mandatory when using 2.0 on the phone10:12
inteon the tablet it performs quite good, though10:12
Nicd-inte: I don't use any patches from OR on my phone. don't act like it's mandatory10:13
lainwir3dNicd-: +110:14
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inteNicd-: well, you know I dont like the loss of coveractions and gestures as the vast majority of jolla users, as you can see in the polls i made at OR.10:23
inteEspecially the coveractions are missing now10:24
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Nicd-inte: don't act like it's mandatory. I know a few Jolla users and none of them have patches. you have conducted a bad poll with bad answer choices and a very small sample size10:25
inteand, since they made these shortcut option for the eventsscreen - i would really like to have events available (optionally, via shortcut) from either the bottom or the top, since having it on one side is always confusing when changing hands often, like the "push app away" gesture has different functions depending on the hand you use10:25
inteNicd-: i made another one, only for the cover actions10:26
Nicd-I don't mind people saying *they* think it's bad but I do mind people claiming everyone thinks it's bad10:26
intethat one has a even smaller sample size, but was clear pro coveractions10:26
Nicd-an even smaller sample size makes it even more irrelevant10:26
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intethe other one, actually saying bring back EVERYTHING as it was before, is 50/5010:26
Nicd-100% of the Jolla users in my home think 2.0 is fine10:27
intewhich means it could be up to 200 users, given the fact that everybody hast one down- and one upvote10:27
inte200 users is not too small10:27
inteespecially since there are only maybe  not even 50000 jollas around10:27
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intei guess10:27
inteNicd-: for my home, 100% think its fine for the tablet but crap on the phone10:28
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inteso, give it 50% of the jolla users dislike the new interface on the phone10:29
inteis it really worh not improving it?10:29
Stskeepsworth asking how many of the users are typically against change10:29
Stskeeps:P10:29
Nicd-inte: your tiny sample sizes are completely irrelevant, you have no standing to be making claims like "patches are mandatory for 2.0". it's just unnecessary flamebait. stick to your own opinion and stop acting like you speak for all of us10:31
inteI would say - it is not only me complaining about the new interface.10:31
intejolla must not ignore that10:31
intethis ignorance is deadly10:31
Nicd-what jolla should and shouldn't do is a wholly different matter10:32
inteeven microsoft was listening to their users, regarding e.g. the startmenu10:32
Stskeepsinte: there's a big difference between listening to somebody and doing everything they say..10:32
inteor nokia/wp, when they reintroduced bt sharing withouth necessary thirdparty apps10:32
intesure10:32
intei agree with all that10:32
intehowever, jolla claims its peopole powered10:33
tbrStskeeps: there is also a significant difference between dialog and not responding to people at all10:33
Stskeepstbr: that's true10:33
intewhy dont the invite they users to an official poll?10:33
intelike for the gestures and coverswipes?10:33
tbrresistance to change is mostly born out of lack of communication10:33
Stskeepsinte: because a poll can't possibly capture all the nuances of a problem10:33
intewell, then a questionaire10:34
Stskeepstbr: GNOME.. ? :)10:34
Stskeepser, gnome310:34
tbrStskeeps: sailfish totally needs some hot-corners!10:34
Stskeepsinte: questionaire is probably a bit saner as that can give more free form answers to people why it doesn't fit to them10:35
inteyou can ask sth. like "woud you want to have the option to have coverswipes back, instead of the buttons?"10:35
Stskeepswell, you're rigging the game with that10:35
inteStskeeps: you can weight the answers10:35
intelike, total agree, agree...10:35
inteto make it accessible for statistics10:35
Stskeepsthen again, this is cognitive science, it's about how people approach the device ux10:36
AardStskeeps: I've been using gnome3 to describe jollas ui development process for a very long way now. it's exactly the same "we know what's best for you, and no, making it configurable will just confuse stupid you"10:36
tbrwhat doesn't help either is that there are probably many decision influencing factors that are NOT visible to users and NEVER will be10:36
inteAard: haha exactely. Im with KDE :)10:36
Stskeepstbr: such as the level of serotonin in designer blood10:37
Stskeeps:P10:37
inteim only saying jolla is somewhat not people-powered regarding these decisions10:37
tbrStskeeps: I'm not sure if it's the serotonin level...10:37
inteim feeling like jolla stole something from my phone10:37
intelike those gestures i was used to for almost 2 years10:37
inteand, why dont make it configureable?10:38
Aardinte: I'm still with 1.1.7, my wife tried the new ui, and after two days threatened to destroy the phone, so I downgraded her to 1.1.7 as well10:38
intewouldnt hurt anyone10:38
inteAard: considiering downgrading as well, but im somewhat too lazy10:38
inte:)10:38
inteAard: and i have the tablet already, and i would probably feel sad missing all the gestures i have on the phone on the tablet, since that is not downgradeable :(10:39
Aardif you're just just at 1.1.9 it should be painfree, not much changed there10:39
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r0kk3rzpresumably the UI will change a bit over the coming releases though?10:49
r0kk3rzthere are areas where it could adapt a bit depending on the device its on10:49
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lainwir3dA bit more config options would be welcome true. But honestly if there isn't I like "2.0" as it is, without any patches.10:57
lainwir3dand for the cover actions thing, I think it's more a matter of people hating change than real dislike10:58
lainwir3dI have undoubtely quite big hands compared to most people I meet, and I have no trouble hitting those buttons10:59
kimmoliimo: i dont mind them to be buttons instead of swipes, just bring two actions back to jolla own apps...10:59
r0kk3rzim thinking not so much config options, but things that change depending on the device screen size, and maybe capabillities as well11:01
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r0kk3rzeg. having pinned apps to the home screen is not so important on a tablet sized device with no GSM capabillity than on a phone sized device where you want quick access to call menus and such11:02
r0kk3rzStskeeps: something i thought about: Is it possible to have the camera app always in memory like the phone call app? or would it take up too much space11:07
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intelainwir3d: i was hitting the buttons all the time until i installed pull-down-covers from OR11:15
intei really dont get the point why they had to go11:15
inteneither do i get why they removed the second coveraction from the tiles, and, when they did, why they removed the "reload" button from the browser instead of the newtab button11:16
intei never used the newtab while i was frequently using reload11:16
intee.g. to check the internet connection w/o having to maximize the browser11:17
r0kk3rzinte: sounds like a workaround for a bug though, rather than good design11:18
r0kk3rzyou shouldnt need to check connection when you have connection status icon11:18
lainwir3d+111:19
Aardr0kk3rz: valid point is that different people use different actions,  so it should be configurable, at least via some advanced settings11:25
r0kk3rzAard: yeah for cover actions i can agree with that, its simple enough to define in settings11:25
r0kk3rzin my music player you can configure which screen gets shown first, to deal with personal preferences on how best to organise music11:27
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r0kk3rzinte: https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-browser/issues/435 << i raised an issue for you11:49
inteAard: +112:02
inter0kk3rz: oh, I wrote a bug-report already: https://together.jolla.com/question/108631/bug-cover-action-reload-missing-for-webbrowser/12:03
r0kk3rzsailfish browser is open source, so adding issue on github is easier to track12:03
inteyeah12:03
intedidnt you point me to the source where it was initially remove?12:04
inted12:04
r0kk3rzyeah12:04
inteso it should be easy to reimplement I hope12:04
r0kk3rzlooks like it would be easy as to add in a setting12:04
intethey should just bring it back12:05
intei dont see the point in allowing only one coveraction anyways12:05
* inte watching soccer12:08
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intedamned12:58
intethey drew for no reason12:58
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arHow can i get a version of ssh/ssh-keygen that supports ed25519 on jolla and/or jolla tablet? other than building my own packages for openssh13:11
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intear: I don't think openrepos is available for the tablet already13:16
intecompiling by yourself isnt to complex though13:16
inteyou can maybe ask at tmo as well, maybe someone already made a rpm13:17
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r0kk3rzi wouldnt install something like that from openrepos anyway...13:43
r0kk3rzar, build yourself on merobs13:43
r0kk3rzar, although, does this suit your needs? https://build.merproject.org/package/show/mer-core:devel/openssh13:44
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r0kk3rzor tigeli seems to be building a newer version: https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:tigeli/openssh13:46
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arr0kk3rz: yeah, i guess the tigeli's version might be new enough13:54
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Shihua_QGstreamerPlayerSession::processBusMessage:1302 - Warning: "received more decoded frames 1 than provided 014:10
Shihua_why14:10
Shihua_?14:10
Shihua_my sdk show this14:10
Shihua_i use qmedia14:10
Shihua_qmediaplayer14:10
Shihua_but, i get the music from the net14:10
Shihua_setSource(http.......)14:11
Shihua_but,it show this to me.14:11
Shihua_somebody can tell me why ?14:12
Shihua_thanks very much.14:12
Shihua_why will show this?14:13
Shihua_can somebody explain to me? thanks!!!!!!14:13
Nicd-please be patient14:14
Nicd-you should ask #sailfishos for development questions. provide the details and _wait_14:14
Shihua_but the music is ok.it can play.but it warning .14:16
Shihua_i can not get the duration time.14:16
Shihua_i have debugged it two week14:16
Shihua_i don't know why will this...14:17
Nicd-as I said, use #sailfishos for development questions14:18
Shihua_thanks.14:19
Shihua_i make me so bad.14:19
Shihua_sorry14:19
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tigeliar: the new openssh should come in the update after next update, for some reason the mer-obs is not yet able to build i586 againts the sailfish_latest16:25
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sqozzhi everyone! Does someone know how the jolla store handles the builds for x86 (for the tablet)?16:41
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sqozzcan the dev decide, if his app is only for the phone or the tablet or both?16:41
sqozzbecause i'm missing YTPlayer and some other apps for my tablet :(16:42
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artigeli: the one from your repos seems to work ok16:58
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r0kk3rzSfiet_Konstantin, have you compiled twablet for x86 yet?17:07
Sfiet_Konstantinr0kk3rz: you have to find it :P17:07
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kimmoliseems to work17:10
r0kk3rzSfiet_Konstantin, is that a "dont be lazy and compile it yourself" type of suggestion?17:10
Sfiet_Konstantinno17:10
Sfiet_Konstantinr0kk3rz: find on build.merproject.org17:10
r0kk3rzah its on obs :)17:10
noumetigeli: Glad to see you here. if just read up on the oom issue and thought i'd ask before submitting another syslog of an extreme oom situation to your mail address.17:11
noume*i've17:11
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coderussqozz: you missing main point: apps are not universal17:19
coderusphone and tablet have different cpu architecture and apps should be recompiled17:20
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Sfiet_Konstantincoderus: technically, QML only apps are universal17:34
Sfiet_Konstantinbut they are pretty limited17:34
r0kk3rzSfiet_Konstantin, couldnt python apps be universal?17:36
Sfiet_Konstantinr0kk3rz: yes they are17:37
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