#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-11-04

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temmi_hooso okay i finally got bored of not updating and took a look into why no updates09:00
temmi_hooturns out my jolla has completely forgotten my accounts09:01
temmi_hoomaybe it's because of the perfect filesystem or something else09:01
temmi_hooin some secret and nonintuitive way i've still received email from gmail account even though the account settings tell me there is no username and password09:02
tbryes, accounts-sso is that way. it will randomly shredder some part of your authentication data09:06
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tbryet still some other part will remain and work, just to spite and confuse you09:06
entilI was not logged into owncloud when I restarted the phone, wonder if there's a setting somewhere to remember my password09:07
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temmi_hoowhat is accounts-sso?09:10
temmi_hoodunno what really happened in the technical details under the hood09:10
temmi_hooi'm not a sailfish programmer and would rather not be, i just like the ui design principles and can tolerate some amount of notworkingness09:11
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Shihua_Is there something about jolla2?09:12
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cb400fprolly need the dust to settle for the Intex, tablet and company split (software and hardware), before anything major happens09:14
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Shihua_Wouldn't  have jolla2?09:15
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cb400fit'll be up to the new hardware company to create future Jolla devices. And they'd better have a new product ready by the time my Jolla breaks down ;-)09:18
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cb400fsince it's unclear if the intex will be good build quality, accessible and usable in europe etc.09:19
Shihua_er,ok. I can just wait.= . =09:19
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caitlinboh wow, a V2 is being offered to my jolla hole. this is vexing for two reasons, i was promised a v2 in the box, which is why they delayed shipment (just politics, laid here for the “lol, what scamps” vote) and the other being upgrade terror.10:24
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caitlinbit’s enjoyably nerve wracking, having a jolla :D10:25
Stskeepsgood10:25
* ggabriel wonders what a jolla hole is10:25
caitlinb“phone”10:25
caitlinball things are holes10:25
caitlinbusb holes, etherweb holes10:25
caitlinbinterholes10:25
caitlinbdoor holes10:25
ggabrielcaitlinb: so you bought a phone recently?10:25
caitlinbit’s a versatile concept10:25
caitlinbyeh, last month or so10:26
ggabrieli think i'm getting your drift10:26
ggabrieloh, cool, so they are delivering then10:26
caitlinbthat’s why i’m so “buh” and “squee” at the same time10:26
* cb400f checks for updates10:26
caitlinbyeh, they were showing in and out of stock semi randomly, and when i ordered there was a delay of maybe a month10:26
ggabrielyeah, for the 2.0 reason10:26
caitlinbthey emailed to say “you can have one in two weeks, it will have V2 on it, sorry for wait"10:26
caitlinbyeh, but it didn’t have 2.0 when it arrived10:27
caitlinbthey probably found one in a cupboard and posted it10:27
cb400fv2 is two phase rocket10:27
caitlinbor it’s a recon ot some shit10:27
cb400fwe're all still waiting for the final bits... at least us non-early access folks10:27
Stskeepscb400f: 2.0.0 full came out now afaik10:27
Stskeepsfor non-aerly access10:28
cb400fupdate available!!1!10:28
ggabrieli updated yesterday (GA) without a glitch10:28
ggabrieland i have to say i like the settings thingy in the events view10:28
ggabrielit lacks a bit of versatibility (spelling? is that even a word?)10:29
Smarany updates over early access version?10:29
ggabrielbut i like it10:29
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Smarversatility?10:29
ggabrielSmar: probably10:29
entilannoying detail, but I had to allow untrusted software on my tablet, because extra search engines are not welcome in the browser, but there are none available in the store10:29
ggabrielwell, that's life10:30
entilprobably not worth spamming tjc10:30
ggabrielnot really10:30
ggabrielor maybe ask for it to be made official in the store, that's a fair request10:30
Smarentil: you could do ultra-quick-qtwebkit-browser ;)10:30
entilSmar: I don't know what that is10:30
Smarentil: QWebView10:30
ggabrielqtwebkit kept crashing lipstick in the previous version10:30
entilSmar: oh, you mean like write my own?10:31
entilthat'd be the worst zfg-driven project ever10:31
Smarentil: yeap10:31
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Smarentil: well, it’s ultra quick unless you want some funny features :D10:31
entiland I doubt I should ask about this on tjc, because I'm sure the sailors have better things to do than ping coderus and ask him to submit his rpm from openrepos to store qa10:31
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ggabrielentil: nah, nothing is worthless, at worst it can be in the backlog10:32
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Yanielfwiw they would rather write their own patch10:32
entilYaniel: there was a closed github issue saying that there will be no patch10:32
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cb400fggabriel: how do you add settings thingies to events?11:24
cb400fhmm.. this 3 megs update I installed wasn't 2.0.0.10.. I'll do the full update now, sorry11:26
ggabrielcb400f: settings -> events11:26
ggabriel(I think)11:26
cb400fprolly so, I guess I can find it, once I actually install the correct update11:26
ggabrielwhat you can add is predefined though "a la" android11:27
ggabriel:)11:27
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coderusentil: oh, enabling untrusted software is something bad for you? :D11:45
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cb400fyep, actually installing 2.0 did help a lot11:52
* cb400f likes11:52
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caitlinbdo you get emoji in 2.0? or is there something i need to install to get rid of all the little rectangles with crosses in them in tweetian?11:59
caitlinbi could try and fix them now, but no point if i’ll get them in 2.011:59
cb400fI don't use twitter, but I don't get emojis in text messages still12:01
stephgcaitlinb: you'll need to install the emoji charsets from openrepos12:01
cb400fdidn't see any mention of that in the announcement either, so didn't expect any change12:01
cb400fwhy o why isn't that submitted to Jolla Market?12:03
caitlinbhttps://openrepos.net/content/penguin/emoji-keyboard that?12:09
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stephgcaitlinb: yeah I think the fonts come with that12:16
caitlinbcan’t find the fonts alone :/12:17
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phlixiHi, according to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Platforms/Android without Google Playstore I should get my Firefox from http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mobile/releases/latest-beta/ (if I can choose, i take the Beta over the release...) there is a dir "android-api-9" and "android-api-11", which one should i choose for the Jolla? I know that I do not want "android-x86" nor "source" :-)12:26
Stskeepsyou can for sure take -11 or above12:28
Stskeeps-11 is 4.0.3, runtime is at 4.1.2 on phone12:28
phlixithanks12:29
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merlin1991so now that I'm on 2.x and the feeds are back, any chance of telling the facebook feed "i've read that"12:44
merlin1991it's boring to scroll down all the way to twitter all the time12:44
chem|stmerlin1991: longtap X?12:45
merlin1991they came back after I did that ...12:46
merlin1991+ it's not exactly convenient compared to how other notfiications go away ...12:47
merlin1991ah wait12:48
merlin1991I think I had it backwards12:48
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Tofenext meeting delayed _again_...14:08
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TofeFrom a communication point of view, it really looks like Jolla doesn't want to address about that open-source planning topic. Which doesn't even need to be a discussion, a simple statement is mostly what is expected.14:16
ggabrielTofe: a simple statement can be "not now", but then most people will be unhappy with it, so if the delay is because of that then I think it's a good thing that they're thinking about it14:17
ggabrielofc the delay could be for other reasons14:17
Tofe"not now" isn't incompatible with a planning, even a rough one14:19
ggabrielI guess I mean "not now" over and out14:19
ggabrielchances are that it's going to be "not now" but ideally you want a kind of roadmap14:19
TemeVIt has been "not now" for a few years now, I don't see it would have changed recently14:20
TofeThey recently said they had plans about it14:20
TofeOtherwise that topic wouldn't even have been proposed for a meeting, I think14:21
ggabrielwell, the community has been asking for this for a while now14:21
ggabrieland jolla made some comments earlier this year, so it's expected14:21
ggabrieli'm assuming that dealing with tablet delays trumps dealing with open source planning though14:22
TemeVI think their plan has always been to open source "when the time is right"14:22
ggabrieltrue14:22
fluxI hope the time is before they are bankrupt :P14:22
Tofenope, they also associated 2.0 with more open-sourcing, this is a change14:22
tadzikthey, or the hype train did?14:23
Yanielor before people are too angry to care14:23
ggabrieli remember what Tofe mentioned14:23
StskeepsTofe: things don't always go like in the movies14:23
Stskeepswe're still working very hard on the topic but when there's other fires, bandwidth goes to the fire14:23
Stskeepscompany bandwidth, that is14:24
TofeStskeeps: I'd have said "like in the original plans", but sure14:26
Stskeepsthere's good things going on, such as now that our GPL compliance is 95% automated, the mer-nemo merge is looking really good, despite gitlab making it difficult14:27
Stskeepsand well, 2.0 out14:27
TofeWell, that kind of simple sentences is what was missing the last couple of months. That the topic isn't forgotten. That other things got more prioritized. I may seem quite useless, but it's not14:27
Tofeit*14:28
Stskeepsalso another silly problem that the meetings are at a time when i really can't be at a computer, as i'm taking care of my son at that time :)14:28
Stskeepsand i'm one of the only person who's an authority on this topic in jolla14:28
Stskeepsopen source can't be dealt with with prepared statements :)14:28
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Tofe:)14:29
ggabrielTofe: I think you're too nice... I expect a lot of people to get pissed off if you tell them "we're still working on it, just hang on" and will say silly things like "just commit everything to github and leave it there"14:29
ggabrielStskeeps: looking after your son? surely you mean training your son to take over... :)14:30
Tofeggabriel: well, I know it doesn't work like that :)14:31
Tofeggabriel: that sounded lke star wars :)14:32
ggabrielhehe14:32
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tbrggabriel / Tofe - many people have simply lost patience and left with a *fliptable.jpeg* or "fuck this intransparent shit". so jolla playing surprised again and again and stalling the hell out of this is pretty meaningless at this point.14:46
tbrI for one merely am here, on the sidelines, watching the train run.14:46
jonwilStskeeps: Its great to see a company where GPL compliance isn't something that only happens after a few project maintainers (kernel devs, busybox devs, whoever else) start throwing some weight (and threats of legal action) around and even then only happens begrudgingly14:46
Stskeepsjonwil: well, tbr has been a good help to push my ass into gear though, we haven't been angles in that area14:47
tbrStskeeps: excuse my french, but then it's your fucking job to make sure that a meeting would be scheduled to a) a time when you're not traveling b) generally available14:47
ggabrielbest if we speak in english then.....14:48
Stskeepstbr: anything after 4pm polish is impossible for me, which is also when people are generally available.14:48
tbrjonwil: the first few gpl releases were me snail-mailing jolla and receiving a DVD in return, after repeated prodding14:48
tbrStskeeps: don't tell that to me. I have long given up on the farce that those meetings are. Tell it to the jolla representatives running the show for those meetings.14:49
* Stskeeps sighs14:49
ggabrieltbr: do you remember how the time for those meetings was agreed?14:50
tbrggabriel: it's always at the end of the meeting14:50
ggabrielno, i mean initially14:50
ggabrielthe first meetings14:50
ggabrielemails must still be available14:50
ggabrieland the time was set for most people14:51
tbrggabriel: I should know. I organized the first few, sort of. I think it was a general consensus and then discussion and agreement during first meeting.14:51
* jonwil will never understand why getting embedded vendors ( to comply with open source licenses is so hard14:51
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* Stskeeps needs to head off14:51
tbrggabriel: we also tried _back_ _then_ to be very inclusive and accomodate various timezones14:51
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ggabrielok, so you do remember14:51
ggabrieland yet, some people couldn't make it14:51
ggabrielso it's ok if some individuals can't make it and you won't reschedule a meeting just for one14:52
tbrjonwil: because lawyers14:52
tbrggabriel: in this case it's about Stskeeps being the *official* and *empowered* representative of Jolla the company to be speaking on their behalf and discussing a topic. If he can't attend, that's kind of a problem.14:53
ggabrieltbr: 2 solutions: 1. make "ad hoc" meeting with a sensible quorum; 2. make the communication process longer by proxying information to Stskeeps14:54
ggabrielmayb ethere are more solutions14:54
ggabrielbut they're easy to discuss in the meeting itself14:54
tbrggabriel: I'm the wrong person to discuss this with. I'm a mere bystander who sometimes feels compelled to make snarky and harsh comments.14:54
ggabrielgot it14:55
ggabrieli'm just throwing ideas also, but don't attend the meetings14:55
tbrthere are many ways to discuss a different meeting time14:55
tbrthere is the TJC item, the mailing list and several IRC channels14:55
tbrthe fact that jolla the company can't be arsed to care enough about their community might just have something to do with this14:56
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jonwiltbr: I think the whole situation surrounding the Samsung ExFAT driver is the perfect example of why open source license compliance is hard even for the biggest and best companies. Samsung was caught between a rock and a hard place on this (or rather the GPL license of the kernel code they modified and the NDAs from Microsoft surrounding the ExFAT filesystem)15:06
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cehteh.. and disabling usb storage device support on their device, who needs exfat then15:19
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cehtehbtw since the n900 days i am wondering if one could build a 'virtual' fat server, acting like a usb storage device with a fat filesystem, but is just a software layer to access any other underlying filesystem15:22
cehteh→ MTP sucks hard, even more than fat15:22
ggabrielwell, it's just software (tm)15:22
ggabrieland that idea has been mentioned ages ago in tjc15:22
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cehtehanyone working on that?15:23
ggabrielsshfs is far simpler though15:23
ggabrielnot that i know of15:23
cehtehyeah i'd go for sshfs as well15:23
cehtehbut would be nice to have some easy univeral interface at usb speeds15:24
ggabrieli don't think many people use the phone as a mass storage device anyway, and the ones who do are tech savvy enough to use sshfs15:24
cehtehmtp is like someone .. mhm .. apes? .. well .. lets say some accident15:24
cehtehits pita everywhere15:25
ggabrielit isn't easy15:25
ggabrielremember the n9?15:25
cehtehnever had one15:25
ggabrielright15:25
ggabrielyou could use mass storage, but it required /home/something to be vfat and also some applications didn't work while connected to usb15:26
ggabrielso that was pretty awful too15:26
cehtehmtp is just a can of worms .. overengineered and still lacking the most simple things15:26
ggabrielyup, sshfs ftw15:26
cehtehyeah15:26
cehtehor rsync15:26
ggabrielbtw, you can use sshfs over usb iirc15:28
tbror run NFS or samba15:28
tbrI built some ancient samba once, for kicks, it worked just fine15:29
cehtehsshfs over usb needs usb networking setup which is somewhat pita too .. PPP or what do you use there?15:30
ggabrielcehteh: that's correct, I think I used it once and worked just fine15:31
ggabrieldidn't use pp15:31
ggabriel+p15:31
ggabrieljust usbnet15:31
ggabrielifconfig -a returns usb0 and voila (with the right kernel module)15:31
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HtheBtigeli: seems like TeamViewer problems has been solved with the newest version of TeamViewer19:37
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coderusHtheB: for me it crashing with "Critical error" after some minutes of usage19:45
HtheBcoderus: Which version of TeamViewer do you have?19:46
HtheB(and What OS are you on)19:46
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coderuslatest from play store19:50
coderusno idea which is it19:51
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coderusconnected to win1019:51
HtheBno no i mean the client19:51
HtheBerrr server&19:51
HtheBBeta 11?>19:52
coderusno idea what you asking about19:52
coderusand why19:52
HtheBbecause I try to trace what the problem might be19:53
HtheBI have TV Beta 11 installed, and it works fine for me19:53
* HtheB tries to connect again, but longer19:53
coderus11.0.419919:55
coderuson pc 11.0.5071419:57
HtheBOk im trying out now to see if it crashes when using it longer20:01
HtheB(typing from jolla right now using TV)20:01
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HtheB10 Minutes now, Still no crash whatsoever20:11
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HtheBcoderus: Might be some problem withbthe server I guess, I Still haven't encountered a crash yet20:23
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