#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2015-11-05

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AciidWhich comes first Tax Returns or Jolla Tablet?00:59
Aciidokey lets see are you guys in the seasons spirits01:03
AciidWhich comes first Santaclaus or Jolla Tablet?01:03
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keithzgI'm hoping for congruity; if my Jolla Tablet showed up on Christmas Eve that'd be kindof perfect ;)02:04
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ShadowJKoh it's november already03:41
ShadowJKI didn't realize03:41
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MikaelaJolla has secret agreement with Santa Claus that he will deliver the tablets06:53
StskeepsMikaela: only if you believe in him!06:54
Mikaelamost of tablets get undelivered then :O06:54
Stskeeps and you see the hidden truth we can't say in blog posts.. :p06:55
pp_see rare exports06:55
kimmoliStskeeps has already been trained?06:56
tbrrare exports in this context is kinda, weird...06:56
pp_jolla tablets are rare exports :D06:57
Stskeepsi should really watch that06:57
tbrStskeeps: totally, awesome movie06:57
pp_it's as difficult to get one packaged as it is to get a santa claus trained & exported06:57
tbrand first you need to kill the boss06:58
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pp_even more the short film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7xbeiZf5I :-)06:59
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phlixithe twitter account in "accounts" in the jolla, feeds into the "events" view, but nothing else, right?09:53
fennekkimm.09:54
fennekkiI wonder if it's possible to access accounts from apps they weren't, well, intended for09:54
fennekkisuch as using email accounts from something else than the default mail app09:54
Hellephlixi: you can post to that account from things like the camera app09:54
phlixiah, ok09:55
phlixithanks09:55
phlixiwell, i am using twitter in read only mode, kind of like rss for some stuff... i never actually do there much, thus i probably remove the account,09:55
tadzikhm, I wonder how tricky would it be to put a possibly-anonymous imgur account tehre09:55
phlixiits only cluttering "events"09:56
Helletadzik: the API is documented09:56
Stskeepstadzik: waiting for ipfs sharing plugin09:56
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tadzikStskeeps: ooh09:57
tadzikHelle: oh, is it harbour-allowed?09:57
tadzikI've only seen accounts in warehouse thus far09:57
Helletadzik: it's documented, but I don't think harbour allowed09:58
Helletadzik: there is a difference09:58
tadzikyeah, that's why I asked :)09:58
HelleI haven't checked yet myself09:58
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ruskieso how long will my order for the tablet be In Picking10:48
ruskiesince did the checkout for igg contributors on the 18th10:49
Yanielprobably not as long as mine will be Unconfirmed10:49
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cb400fruskie: some people on facebook claimed there's a delay particularly with the 32 gig tablets, dunno what amount of storage you ordered11:39
* cb400f has a theory that the chinese manufacturers are delaying things, cuz a random person from Finland said "hello" to Dalai Lama11:40
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tbrthere is a google spreadsheet that looks suspiciously like at least the first micro-batch didn't ship any 64GB models11:41
tbrerr 32GB11:41
ruskie64gb in my case11:41
ruskiedo have the lastucase as well so maybe that's the delay11:42
ggabrieli think jolla confirmed there was an issue with the 32gb tablets and they are a priority11:42
ggabriel(in twitter)11:42
ggabrielor by email, can't remember11:42
tbrhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qS0DE4oOf7qPYjwUAaL-rjoPcqu6hHQRJOdspQ4_Hgc/edit?usp=sharing11:43
tbrggabriel: they did? link?11:43
Stskeepsi think i recall something like that too but i don't recall where11:44
cb400fI wonder if they're holding up shipping until they have the full batch ready. Don't think I heard of anyone from the second wave receiving anything yet11:44
tbrI don't see that in the twitter feed11:45
ggabrieltbr: someone in tmo got an email from jolla. that's what my brain recalls. it is sadly in a thread with hundreds of posts about philosophy, life and the tablet delay11:46
tbrcb400f: a hand full of people11:46
ggabrielyou have to believe that that someone got a genuine email too11:46
ggabrielso it's all hearsay11:46
* Stskeeps has tmo blocked on his machine in working hours, to prevent heart attacks11:46
* tbr can say 100% that he did not receive such an email11:47
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Stskeepstbr: i vaguely recall a drunken moment reading a post that seemed to have come from care11:47
tbrjust goes to show /again/ how much they value their customers and how efficiently they share information, not…11:48
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tbrright now I'd very much prefer my money back, in full11:49
tbrbut that's not going to happen11:49
cb400fit's a tricky situation. Maybe it wouldn't help things if they sent out information saying how much the manufacturer sucks11:49
cb400fon a weekly basis11:49
tbrcb400f: that's again probably blanketed by a pile of NDA and political issues11:50
cb400fI assume the bulk of issues are with the manufacturer at this point11:50
tbrI'm not so sure. keep in mind, they are a startup that's FAR from profitable.11:50
the_mgtgiven enough time of constant delays, even detailed information gets boring and does not help anymore11:50
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tbrcb400f: contract manufacturers are known to withhold shipment if they feel that there is a financial risk. not saying that this is the case here. just saying that it's one of many possibilities.11:52
pp_paypal dispute time!11:55
pp_everyone loses11:55
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rigothere are nice ex-nokia factories all over Europe to start over making our own11:58
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tadziksooo.. I ran fsck.vfat on my sdcard on a jolla, and it said "FATs differ but appear to be intact. Use which FAT ?"12:28
tadzikdoes it sound familiar to anyone?12:28
tadzik....FATs differ?12:28
Stskeepstadzik: O_o12:28
Stskeepsfile allocation tables12:28
tadzikright, but.. 2 fats?12:29
tadzikit means something like "there's two different sets of inodes for the data you have there?"12:29
stephgtadzik: well there's a backup one isn't there?12:30
tadzikstephg: it seems like that; I don't really know how fat looks inside12:31
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tadzikI guess I'll just recover what I can and format it12:33
stephgtadzik: photorec will get everything12:33
pp_take copy of image (you can probably ssh it over to somewhere with space)12:34
SQUelcherafaik there is a FAT at the beginning and end of the file system12:34
tadzikyeah, and the memory of looking through that stuff makes me hope that I wasn't actually keeping anything important on that sdcard :)12:34
pp_and run fsck on that12:34
pp_gives you a chance of running chkdsk if all else fails12:34
tadzikwell, the default camera pics and videos are on main memory, right?12:35
ggabrieltadzik: yes12:35
tadzik. o O ( hello mkfs my old friend )12:35
ggabrielnever use fat again :P12:36
ggabrielaltho some sd cards are just crap12:36
tadzikI see that I have a backup of some vacations pictures there, but only one of the backups :)12:36
tadzikggabriel: I expect that the card itself is faulty, yeah12:36
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tadzikrpi was... "taking care" of it earlier12:37
Stskeepsif you want to kill sd cards, boards are a great way to do it12:37
tadzik:)12:38
Stskeepsi recall killing 7 sd cards with an early beagleboard12:38
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Devaux1Huhu :)14:00
Devaux1I wonder where the config-File for Cal/CardDAV is14:00
ggabrielyou mean the account?14:00
Devaux1Yes14:01
ggabrielDevaux1: /home/nemo/.cache/msyncd/sync14:04
ggabrielyou get access as root tho14:04
Devaux1In .cache?14:04
ggabrielaye14:04
Devaux1ggabriel: Thank you :)14:05
Devaux1And why .cache?14:05
ggabriellife would be too easy otherwise ;-) in other words: I don't know14:05
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Devaux1Hmm14:07
Devaux1But there are no server, account nor folder-settings :(14:07
phlixiif I wanted to have my sd card mounted to /media/sdcard/card instead of /media/sdcard/xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx I probably have to manipulate /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh - or is there a more "correct" way?14:08
phlixiunfortunately this gets reversed every few updates (actually not on every update)14:08
Devaux1Maybe there is a udev-rule14:08
ggabrielDevaux1: that was where it used to be anyway, it may have changed. I think chriadam knows heaps more than me on this one14:10
Devaux1Then I will wait :)14:11
Devaux1Thank you :)14:11
phlixiI have no idea what an "udev-rule" could be, I probably just replace all "$MNT/${UUID}" in /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh with "$MNT/card"14:11
ggabrielphlixi: you may break tracker like that14:12
ggabrielif you ever remove your sd card, or swap it with another one14:12
ggabrielnot a major thing, you just rebuild the index and that's it14:12
phlixii do not intend to remove the card at all14:12
phlixii havent removed it the last 2 years either14:12
phlixionce it is broken, i guess it is the same as if the mound hadnt been changed14:13
phlixiits broken then anyways14:13
ggabrieli'd probably look at mounting it elsewhere, in addition to /media/sdcad/uuid14:13
ggabrielbut then there'd be the tracker issue with duplications14:13
ggabrielso i don't know14:13
phlixiand for now i do not plan to upgrade it (i do not think there are faster cards, and more than 64gb, i do not need^^)14:13
* ggabriel embraces uuid's14:13
Devaux1phlixi: If it's always the same card with the same UUID, you can make a Symlink14:14
phlixiso far i never had issues with tracker14:14
ggabrielphlixi: you must be the only one :P14:14
phlixiwell, probably i just didnt take notes of it, since all "media" i use, are within gpodder anyways14:15
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phlixi(and those should be on the sd card ^^)14:15
phlixialso i see that there is stuff in /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh to wait for the tracker14:16
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phlixiunfurtunately i am not capable of creating a link :(14:30
phlixiif i try this: [nemo@Jolla ~]$ link /media/sdcard/xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx /media/sdcard/card14:30
phlixii get this: link: cannot create link `/media/sdcard/card' to `/media/sdcard/xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx': Invalid cross-device link14:30
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Devaux1devel-su?14:32
Hellealso you need to create a symlink, ln -s14:32
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phlixiok, i did14:38
phlixiln -s /media/sdcard/xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx /media/sdcard/card14:38
phlixi...and now it seems to work as expected :-)14:39
phlixithanks! :-)14:39
phlixiactually without devel-su14:39
phlixiwell, maybe i am not so happy with it14:41
phlixiwhen navigating , i end up in the f*cking /media/sdcard/xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx14:41
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Hellephlixi: well, with devel-su you could also do a mount --bind, but you need to do that every time you boot14:42
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phlixiI probably just replace all "$MNT/${UUID}" in /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh with "$MNT/card"14:43
phlixii need to redo that every second update, thats better than every boot :D14:43
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phlixi(i suffer from those "random rebooots")14:43
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newcupsomeone suffered from random reboots, turns out a dead original battery was the culprit, a new battery (HTC Desire 310 as originals are hard to find) fixed the issue15:27
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tbryeah, I've noticed on one of my phones that the battery seems to have degraded, which leads to spontaneous shutdowns (I've cleaned the terminals, obviously)15:29
the_mgtI combined cleaning the terminals with putting a piece of paper below and behind the battery15:34
the_mgtthat did it for me15:34
* kimmoli lubricates15:34
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phlixijust stumbled upon http://www.amazon.de/dp/B015F9UZRS/ says "Passend für: HTC Desire 310, D310N. Jolla Phone (JP-1301)." which means "fits for Jolla" :-)15:44
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tadzik:o15:46
ggabrielsooo, if your jolla breaks then amazon pays the bill?15:47
ggabrielor it doesn't work that way in germany?15:48
ggabriel(very cheap though...)15:48
the_mgtin germany, we believe in the concepts of enlightenment, sapere aude, etc15:49
the_mgtif you do something utterly stupid and your device breaks, we dont call the cops or cry for a judge15:50
the_mgtand while "buying a 3rd party battery" is not utterly stupid, amazon will likely shrug it off15:50
ggabrielwell, but if you buy teh battery, fit it in your jolla as per the product description, and the jolla breaks because the battery is faulty or doesn't really fit the jolla, can you call the cops?15:50
ggabrielactually, this product looks more like marketplace15:51
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the_mgtggabriel: you could try, but I doubt that you will win anything15:54
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ggabrielyup, i guess it's a long shot15:54
phlixii had a battery from the same brand as replacement in my n90015:55
phlixiif you buy the battery from amazon (or marketplace, no differnece in law) and the battery destroys your jolla, easiest thing probably is to just buy a new jolla15:56
phlixii am sure the battery provider will limit refunds to the price o the battery, thus it does not make sense to invest anything in fighting with the merchant15:57
phlixinad warranty for the jolla is gone anyway (if you are one of "the first one"s) :-)15:58
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caitlinbwhat’s the battery fear? i’ve missed all the handwave, why won’t any old 310 batter fit the jolla?16:17
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caitlinbhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/HTC-DESIRE-ORIGINAL-BATTERY-MODEL/dp/B00WN6SNV2/16:18
tbrcaitlinb: it's the irrational fear of people who don't know the faintest thing about electronics16:20
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* tbr looks at his nexus4 that happily works with an old nokia BL-4D transplanted into its guts16:20
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caitlinbthat simple?16:24
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caitlinbthe only battery that’s actually gone wonky on me was the genuine nokia one that came with an n95 iirc16:24
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tbrcaitlinb: I removed the original cell, salvaged its protection circuitry and connector. Ripped the connector and protection circuit of a BL-4D. Smoldered both things together, plugged it in, works.16:25
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tbr...off a BL-4D16:26
caitlinbseems legit16:26
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caitlinbit’s just some chemistry, logic and terminals16:26
tbrit helps to have a general understanding of things, a multimeter and a soldering-iron16:27
the_mgtI guess there is not so much fear by the users, but fear of Jolla oy to state "yes, you can use that htc battery"16:27
the_mgtif they state that, they might be liable if it explodes in your pocket or kills your jolla16:27
tbryeah, jolla won't ever state that publicly16:28
tbrjust as they won't ever publicly admit that the oxidation problem between battery and phone is a manufacturing defect16:29
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tbrprobably coming from somewhere down the chain, their ODM or one of its suppliers16:29
the_mgtpersonally, I prefer not to buy the cheapest battery. AA and AAA cells from the cheapest makers have died on me too often. or didn't hold their load long enough16:30
the_mgtI do not believe in the oxidation problem, that sounds like an internet myth to me. I'd like to see some pictures, preferably some proof with measurement of resistance or whatnot16:31
Stskeepsthe htc replacement battery doesn't have temperature measurement afaik16:31
Stskeepswhich, since i may want to have more children, is enough for me not to touch it16:32
Stskeepsor was that one of the others?16:32
the_mgtthis sounds like another myth to me. why would a large company like htc not include that while a small company on a budget like jolla would include one?16:32
the_mgtas if htc had an interest in frying your testes16:33
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Stskeepsthe_mgt: well, somebody took apart one of them i think16:33
Stskeepsmay not have been the htc one16:33
tbrthe_mgt: it's not a myth, we showed several times that while the urban myth of padding up the battery didn't work, cleaning the contact surfaces did work every time. As for visual proof, you'd need to get an affected phone/battery and put them under an electron microscope or such16:33
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Stskeepsyeah, i don't think it's a myth either for same reason16:34
Stskeepsbbl16:34
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the_mgttbr: what's the theory behind why it oxydates? wrong mixture of metals used on battery and connectors? some liquids condensating on the contacts?16:36
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tbrthe_mgt: there are probably several possibilities, most likely it's that the alloys on both sides are slightly different, and maybe with some ambient moisture also in the mix, start to build up oxides16:40
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tbrwhy the padding thing seems to help sometimes is because people need to reinsert the battery several times and adjust things. this provides slight abrasive cleaning of both surfaces16:41
the_mgtthat's why I call the whole process a myth16:41
tbrso the simplest quick fix would be to reinsert and wiggle the battery 20 times16:41
tbr*shrug* if you have a better theory, come forward16:42
the_mgtwhen my phone first had power/rebooting issues, it usually was enough to remove the battery for a short while. like with rebooting a dsl modem/router, take off the plug until all capacitors are fully unloaded16:43
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tbrI didn't say that this was the _only_ reason for such problems.16:43
the_mgtit still became more annoying, so eventually I put a paper under the battery16:44
tbrISTR that there was some PMIC related problem too16:44
the_mgtand voila the problem was solved. until recently16:44
the_mgtwhat never worked out for me was cleaning the contacts16:44
tbrwell, how did you clean them?16:45
the_mgtwindow cleaner or gasoline or ethanol16:45
the_mgtmakes no difference16:45
the_mgt"white spirit" is the translation16:46
tbrI do not think that those are very effective, if at all at removing a metal oxide layer16:46
the_mgtwhat would you recommend?16:47
tbrthere are professional oxide remover fluids, but I personally just gently move a metal object over the surfaces of both sides16:48
tbrslight scratches are ok and expected16:48
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tbrI know kimmoli got himself some of that fluid as he also does a lot of electronics work and it worked very well for him16:49
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the_mgtlike on the old potentiometers :)16:50
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tbryes, that sort of fluid would likely work16:52
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Stskeepzmoo bobsummerwill17:23
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M-bobsummerwillStskeepz - Greetings!    Trying out http://vector.im and Matrix Console on Android right now.   Been starting to lurk in IRC for the last week or so.    Believe it or not, I've never really used IRC until starting to get involved with Sailfish.17:30
Stskeepzhmm, why am i stskeepz.. :)17:30
Stskeepzbbr17:30
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M-bobsummerwillI didn't come from that IRC world.17:31
Stskeepsand good ;)17:31
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noumeHai!20:58
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Mikaelahau20:59
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AL13N_jolla_hmm, I got the 2.0 update twice?21:20
AL13N_jolla_should i do it?21:21
r0kk3rzdo it!21:23
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r0kk3rzor not21:23
r0kk3rzwhatever really, its up to you21:23
raa700_i double dare you to do it21:23
AL13N_jolla_very funny21:26
AL13N_jolla_maybe it was only partial, maybe i git enospace on btrfs21:27
AL13N_jolla_maybe most btrfs blocks are allocated, it shouldn't hurt to do a balance, right?21:29
AL13N_jolla_cool, the balance freed up sone blocks.21:33
Ezkoi just got a 3MB update a couple of days ago21:33
Ezkoor yesterday21:34
Ezkorecently anyway21:34
AL13N_jolla_me too21:34
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eugeniosure it wasn't 1.1.9.30?21:34
AL13N_jolla_but after that was done, i got the 2.021:34
Ezkowot21:35
Ezkoi haven't gotten one after that21:35
Ezkoafter 1.1.9.30 i mean21:35
eugeniorecheck :)21:35
AL13N_jolla_and now that i did that 250MB21:35
Ezkonope21:35
AL13N_jolla_i get another one for 2.0.0.1021:35
eugeniothat's strange21:36
Ezkoi don't have the dev update things selected21:36
AL13N_jolla_eugenio: maybe i had enospace issues on btrfs, since most blocks are allocated, ans i assume making backup needs more metadata21:37
AL13N_jolla_i have no dev updates either21:37
Ezkohmm21:37
eugenio2.0.0.10 is now available for everyone, you should get the update notification21:37
Ezkowell whatever21:37
eugenioAL13N_jolla_, hm I would try to update again21:38
Ezkoah searched for updates and got it21:38
eugenio:D21:38
AL13N_jolla_eugenio: I'll just do that one twice then couldn't hurt21:38
eugeniogood luck :)21:38
AL13N_jolla_since the balance freed up blocks, should work21:39
AL13N_jolla_still downloading, though21:40
Ezkodownloading the update now21:40
AL13N_jolla_now that 1.021:42
AL13N_jolla_now that 2.0 is out, I'm hoping for speedy delivery of invitation for tablet.21:43
AL13N_jolla_I assume the new tablets ship with 2.0?21:44
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eugenioit may be, but I don't think that the not availability of 2.0.0 was the thing that prevented the tablet (invitation) delivery :P21:46
AL13N_jolla_probably not...21:49
Ezkotime to install21:50
AL13N_jolla_at least I'm pretty sure I'll get it, unlike some other kickstarted projects.21:50
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r0kk3rzAL13N_jolla_: yeah that wasnt holding up the tablet, its all on the manufacturing side21:54
r0kk3rzafaik tablets will arrive with 1.1.9.28 installed21:55
AL13N_jolla_ok21:55
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AL13N_jolla_well, i knew I wasn't going to be the first one.21:56
AL13N_jolla_i paid 10$ extra21:56
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AL13N_jolla_still it's a 64G upgrade, so. ..21:57
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Sfiet_Konstantinbeyazi: hello21:58
beyazihello21:58
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