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pdanek | Where do you see Jolla in 2 years? | 01:23 |
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HtheB | pdanek: not | 01:38 |
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Aciid | pdanek: bankrupt | 01:55 |
pdanek | So you think Intex won't sell enough? | 02:04 |
Aciid | i think it's a joke | 02:06 |
Aciid | jolla has become a better betrayal than nokia | 02:06 |
Aciid | getting russians and chinese involved 5/5 | 02:07 |
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lpotter | no, nokia was ultimate betrayal. This is just a hickup in the life of a startup | 06:30 |
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locusf | yup | 07:04 |
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tiwake | alright | 07:32 |
tiwake | any suggestions for reflashing an N900? | 07:32 |
Stskeeps | download firmware image, flash? | 07:33 |
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tiwake | :P | 07:33 |
tiwake | are contacts stored on the sim card? | 07:36 |
Stskeeps | not usually | 07:37 |
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tiwake | alright | 08:01 |
tiwake | contacts backed up :3 | 08:01 |
tiwake | now I just need to reflash it | 08:02 |
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ggabriel | thanks cehteh locusf and coderus for dd advice | 12:12 |
cehteh | morning :D | 12:12 |
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cehteh | and i'd still use rsync not dd :D | 12:12 |
ggabriel | cehteh: yeah, I know, I know | 12:12 |
ggabriel | it's just the faff and also never had issues with btrfs so don't mind copying that over and uuid and whatnot | 12:13 |
cehteh | oh .. i managed to crash/slow down/ENOMEM btrfs a lot in my hardcore tests on a server | 12:13 |
cehteh | i do not trust it full and it has a horrible reputation about fragmenting a lot, while defragmenting would wear the flash storage | 12:14 |
cehteh | it is *somewhat* useable, but i wont stretch it | 12:14 |
ggabriel | clearly jolla people think the same since the tablet is ext4 | 12:15 |
cehteh | why not f2fs | 12:16 |
ggabriel | never tried that | 12:16 |
cehteh | i was wondering back in time that jolla choosen btrfs for the phone | 12:16 |
ggabriel | but there is a tendency of sticking to the fs's that are more "native"/more tested for the type of *nix | 12:16 |
ggabriel | btrfs is the future in linux, apparently | 12:16 |
cehteh | if it ever does waht it promises it would be really nice, i am eagerly wait for that | 12:17 |
cehteh | yeah | 12:17 |
ggabriel | _apparently_ one of the devs of ext4 said kind of that | 12:17 |
cehteh | but for now it hasnt my complete trust | 12:17 |
ggabriel | same, at least for proper use | 12:17 |
cehteh | hey on my servers, btrfs raid6 .. just plug in new drive or remove a old drive of almost any size, rebalance, done | 12:18 |
cehteh | would be really cool | 12:18 |
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cehteh | but as long it has a risk of loosing data, fragments, slowing down .. and no full disk encryption, not there yet | 12:18 |
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ggabriel | full disk encryption used to be a planned feature for btrfs | 12:20 |
ggabriel | but they descoped it in favour of luke skywalker | 12:20 |
ggabriel | i mean luks :P | 12:20 |
cehteh | anyway .. with rsyncing to a prime brtfs, maybe mounted with nocow for the rsync, you'll get some more sane image | 12:20 |
cehteh | problem is with raid (btrfs as storage manager), then you have to setup luks on every partiton | 12:21 |
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locusf | luks is theoretically possible | 12:22 |
cehteh | which woul have some performance impact, for raid 6 for example you have to encrypt 3 times as much data and read/decrypt the blocks from every disk | 12:22 |
locusf | you just need a ui to input passphrase | 12:22 |
cehteh | you mean for the jolla? | 12:22 |
locusf | then add luks modules to kernel initrd | 12:22 |
locusf | yeah | 12:22 |
cehteh | ah i am speaking about btrfs + encryption | 12:23 |
locusf | ah sorry :) | 12:23 |
cehteh | i am planning to do something to luks the sd-card | 12:23 |
cehteh | would be nice if the unlocking gui from the jolla stores a hash of the lockcode somewhere safely | 12:24 |
cehteh | then one can use it to unlock the luks and drop the hash | 12:24 |
cehteh | within the boot process | 12:24 |
cehteh | i havent digged that deep into the system yet, but the unlocking stuff is closed source or? | 12:24 |
ggabriel | luks has a perf impact, yes, if your cpu is cool re encryption algorithms, you're generally ok and it only taxes 15-20% on heavy IO | 12:24 |
ggabriel | i only have luks on the phone for a file | 12:25 |
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ggabriel | the rest is non essential really | 12:25 |
cehteh | luks itself has not that much performance impact | 12:25 |
cehteh | if you have enough ram and have to crypt the data only once, after that its cached ... fine | 12:25 |
ggabriel | surely it should be encrypted in the cache :P | 12:25 |
ggabriel | otherwise disaster | 12:25 |
cehteh | but if you have some multipied luks for each raid drive, then it starts to get ugly | 12:26 |
cehteh | cache -> pagecache its not encrypted | 12:26 |
cehteh | you read from a filesystem, filesystem returns already unencrypted data which eventually gets pagecached | 12:27 |
cehteh | but you ought to encrypt your swap!!! | 12:27 |
cehteh | that would be the next thing on the jolla | 12:27 |
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Milo- | Meh, Lassila announced tablet shipments will be halted until further notice. I guess that's the end of that. | 12:43 |
ggabriel | lassila? is that .fi media? | 12:43 |
Milo- | Juhani Lassila | 12:43 |
tbr | in helsinkin sanomat | 12:43 |
tbr | but that matches the interview saarnio gave to techcrunch | 12:44 |
Milo- | chief of communications | 12:44 |
tbr | tablet shipments depend on successful funding round | 12:44 |
ggabriel | fwiw, I'm expecting it to fail, only luck can help at this stage | 12:44 |
Stskeeps | a chapter 11 usually means that shit stops, at least for a little bit, to get the dust settling.. | 12:44 |
tbr | https://www.reddit.com/r/Jolla/ - first two items | 12:44 |
ggabriel | challenge is that financing is not just to finish off with the tablet, but also for future | 12:46 |
ggabriel | I wonder how much money they're needing for the next 18 months | 12:46 |
tbr | ack | 12:46 |
Stskeeps | it's at looking like no xmas lunch this year | 12:46 |
Stskeeps | :P | 12:46 |
Stskeeps | +least | 12:46 |
locusf | http://www.merproject.org/donations | 12:47 |
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locusf | to at least keeping the middleware infrastructure alive | 12:48 |
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cehteh | Stskeeps: where you at the linux audio conference in colonge in 2008? | 12:55 |
Stskeeps | no | 12:56 |
Stskeeps | never been to cologne | 12:56 |
cehteh | ok | 12:56 |
svuorela | they have famous water there. | 12:58 |
cehteh | i just met one one thee then nokia guys who worked on pulseaudio, forgot his name, wondered if it was Stskeeps | 12:59 |
Stskeeps | there's a couple of those | 12:59 |
cehteh | (where you even at nokia back the time?) | 12:59 |
cehteh | yeah sure | 12:59 |
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inte | so, is jolla merging back into nokia, eventually? | 13:13 |
Stskeeps | wat | 13:13 |
inte | heared recently they were in financial issues | 13:13 |
Stskeeps | yeah, but that's a bit of a leap :) | 13:13 |
inte | well... | 13:13 |
inte | is there someone else to step in? | 13:13 |
tbr | Stskeeps: you have to admit it would fit previous insanity in the nokia context ;) | 13:13 |
svuorela | I'm not sure if it will happen before HEL freezes over | 13:14 |
inte | I only wonder if they will still ship the tablets, and if not, if my tablet will rather gain worth or be somewhat useless :) | 13:14 |
tbr | inte: 12:44:48< tbr> https://www.reddit.com/r/Jolla/ - first two items | 13:14 |
inte | what is this reddit thing at all? | 13:15 |
inte | i read about that a couple of time but i find it somewhat ugly and useless | 13:15 |
svuorela | inte: a place where people can meet and circlejerk. | 13:15 |
svuorela | kind of like irc, but with more web. | 13:16 |
inte | mh | 13:16 |
inte | well ok i rather use irc then :) | 13:16 |
inte | tablet shipments frozen, eh? | 13:16 |
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ggabriel | ah, only 10mil they need | 13:18 |
ggabriel | to think that for some people that's an evening in vegas | 13:19 |
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inte | so, they will rather not ship any more tablet i dare | 13:20 |
inte | however will they pay back backers then? | 13:20 |
ggabriel | not until successful round | 13:20 |
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inte | i have a friend who paid but didnt get his tablet yet | 13:21 |
* cehteh wonders if jolla could be transfered into a cooperative where the community members can buy in :D | 13:21 | |
ggabriel | let's speak frankly: when a company goes bankrupt, customers are the lowest level creditors | 13:21 |
inte | and, should i keep mine or can i get a nice price on ebay? :) | 13:21 |
inte | well but in this case its indiegogo who takes care of the money right? | 13:21 |
ggabriel | erm.... | 13:21 |
ggabriel | no? | 13:21 |
Yaniel | svuorela: I think Helsinki is frozen already | 13:22 |
ggabriel | igg charged its commission, job done | 13:22 |
inte | i thought yes | 13:22 |
ggabriel | igg just put jolla and people together (no multiple puns intended) | 13:22 |
inte | but if a campaign is not successfull money is usually paid back | 13:22 |
ggabriel | do you have a source for that? i don't recall reading that in t&c | 13:22 |
ggabriel | who would be crazy enough to insure that anyway | 13:22 |
inte | isnt that how usually these crowdfunding stuff works? | 13:23 |
ggabriel | no, it's at risk | 13:23 |
inte | mh | 13:23 |
inte | ok i dont care i have my tablet :) | 13:23 |
Yaniel | no, afaik usually it is all or nothing | 13:23 |
ggabriel | suggest you read carefuly before your next crowdsourced investment] | 13:23 |
Yaniel | if the campaign fails, backers get their money back | 13:23 |
Yaniel | where failing means not meeting the goal within the time limit | 13:24 |
inte | then its good i didnt order another phone three days ago when they were offered for 169€ | 13:24 |
Yaniel | not actually delivering the end product | 13:24 |
Yaniel | *not actually failing to deliver | 13:24 |
ggabriel | inte: why? I ordered one and I have it | 13:24 |
ggabriel | they are still delivering phones | 13:24 |
Yaniel | except igg has this flexible funding option | 13:24 |
inte | oh ok | 13:24 |
Yaniel | where the goal does not matter | 13:24 |
inte | cool then i will order a phone as soon as they cost 169€ again! | 13:25 |
inte | :) | 13:25 |
ggabriel | inte: they're 199 now | 13:25 |
inte | or, if someone has a code... | 13:25 |
inte | yeah too expensive at the moment | 13:25 |
ggabriel | i can't think of a similar phone at a better price | 13:25 |
ggabriel | well, there's no other phone that has tohkbd so... | 13:25 |
inte | so i could start a campaign for, say, a ferrari like car at indiego, and aim at a price of 25000€ and put the goal at 500000€ | 13:26 |
inte | so when the campaing is successful, i could transfer the money into bitcoins and disappear? | 13:26 |
inte | crazy | 13:26 |
ninnnu | Yes. | 13:26 |
inte | i was actually thinking about a nexus 5 as well since it could run the plasma mobile beta and im curious how that feels... | 13:27 |
ggabriel | well, what Yaniel works with either insurance or igg not releasing the money until you meet the goal | 13:27 |
ggabriel | people speak well of the nexus 5 for some reason | 13:27 |
ninnnu | While that hasn't ever happened (AFAIK), this isn't the first (or last) time a Kickstarter/IGG-project has failed to deliver | 13:27 |
ggabriel | really bad call quality, really bad reception | 13:27 |
ggabriel | but hey, maybe that's not important | 13:27 |
ggabriel | ninnnu: or any start up for that matter; in fact, most fail | 13:28 |
cehteh | what gone wrong with the tablett anyway, there first batch was shipped and worked somewhat? | 13:29 |
cehteh | it isnt that it was scam or technologically infeasible | 13:29 |
ggabriel | well, we don't know, that's what people are asking jolla to clarify | 13:29 |
ggabriel | they probably need some more money than expected | 13:30 |
tbr | my guess is that they can't pay their supplier | 13:30 |
cehteh | damnit they should be more open, this sux | 13:30 |
ggabriel | i bet they can't | 13:30 |
ggabriel | nda's and such | 13:30 |
cehteh | meanwhile i really hope jolla will be buyed out by someone with a more open thinking | 13:30 |
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cehteh | as i saied ,, cant we convince redhat to go into phone business? | 13:31 |
ggabriel | one of the reasons why funding didn't succeed yet is the stake the investors want, mind | 13:31 |
ggabriel | could be the stake* | 13:31 |
cehteh | yeah imo a wron approach... rally with all the big guys | 13:31 |
ggabriel | there's no wrong approach, copmanies need money to run | 13:32 |
ggabriel | that's logical | 13:32 |
inte | probably they cannot pay their supplier and thats why their supplier started selling the jolla tablet hardware as cheap android version | 13:32 |
cehteh | yes, but better less but solid than high risk | 13:32 |
inte | i think jolla should have rather come out with a second phone than with a tablet | 13:33 |
tbr | inte: that would be even harder. certifying a modem is hard | 13:33 |
ggabriel | phones are hard indeed | 13:34 |
inte | i personally only bought a tablet since i like jolla but havent used it after i opened it and played around with it | 13:34 |
cehteh | me and a friend ordered phones recently. i got one produced at 1/14 he got one prduced at 1/13 .. few days ago, i bet they have stockpiles of phones manufactured | 13:34 |
inte | tbr: well they neednt sell to us | 13:34 |
inte | only europ like for the first one | 13:34 |
tbr | inte: come again? | 13:34 |
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inte | certifying a modem to one region is easier than certifiying it to the world | 13:35 |
cehteh | i wont buy anything from any company just because i like that company | 13:35 |
inte | i guess thats why jolla didnt sell the phone in us | 13:35 |
cehteh | if the tablet isnt sustainable by its usefulness then its a failure | 13:35 |
inte | well i thought i could use it for e.g. webbrowsing while watching tv | 13:35 |
ggabriel | well, that depends on how much money means to you | 13:35 |
ggabriel | i did contribute to the tablet because i like the cause | 13:35 |
inte | turned out i barely watch tv :) | 13:36 |
ggabriel | inte: lol re tv comment | 13:36 |
inte | hehe :) | 13:36 |
inte | ok need to go sorry daughter is waiting have a nice sunday | 13:36 |
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cehteh | if I (or we, community) could buy into the company and get something back (being heared and voting which is really acknolweged) i would consider it | 13:37 |
cehteh | but just giving them money to play with is somewhat pointless | 13:37 |
cehteh | they burned already a lot | 13:37 |
ggabriel | cehteh: just do the math :) | 13:37 |
ggabriel | igg raised >2mil | 13:37 |
ggabriel | they need 10mil | 13:37 |
ggabriel | not enough community | 13:37 |
cehteh | yes .. thats because they handled the community not well enough | 13:38 |
ggabriel | nah | 13:38 |
ggabriel | if there were enough people, investors wouldn't be so picky | 13:38 |
cehteh | there are not enough people because they didnt approach the community open enough. I know a lot linux hackers, everyone likes jolla but they didnt buy the phone because they heared so much complaints | 13:39 |
ggabriel | i bet the main reason was the price | 13:39 |
cehteh | they could sell 10 times more phones and have a 10 times biggier community by that if they handled them better | 13:40 |
cehteh | price now is really cheap | 13:40 |
ggabriel | uhm... dd din't work | 13:40 |
cehteh | ok it started a bit on the expensive side, and i wouldnt have buyed it for 400eur | 13:40 |
cehteh | haha | 13:40 |
cehteh | i saied rsync :DDDDD | 13:41 |
ggabriel | problem is lock code | 13:41 |
ggabriel | should have dd'd without one | 13:41 |
ggabriel | ok, attempt #1 failed | 13:41 |
cehteh | the lock code is on a special partition, dunno if that even dongled/encrypted with some hardware id | 13:41 |
cehteh | i wont touch that, exclude that from any transfers | 13:42 |
cehteh | set the lockcode on the new device | 13:42 |
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ggabriel | yeah, will do that | 13:42 |
ggabriel | it just takes time to do this | 13:42 |
ggabriel | and i want to go climbing :P | 13:42 |
cehteh | a complete clone might be impossible because IMEI and other hardware id's are different | 13:43 |
ggabriel | nah, there are RO partitions too | 13:43 |
cehteh | i bet some ugly things happen when you just copy everything blindly | 13:43 |
ggabriel | but lock code was half expected anyway | 13:43 |
cehteh | yes | 13:43 |
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ggabriel | lock code is stored in at least 2 places | 13:43 |
cehteh | its hashed, but i dont know how the hashing works | 13:44 |
ggabriel | or at least the flag is | 13:44 |
cehteh | i would consider to use the imei as part of the hashing | 13:44 |
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cehteh | if its truely secure, then this parts should be all documented and open source :D | 13:44 |
ggabriel | nothing is truly secure | 13:46 |
cehteh | truely as in "state of the art" ... | 13:47 |
cehteh | well since the data isnt encrypted one could desolder the emmc and read all data | 13:48 |
ggabriel | aye | 13:48 |
ggabriel | my data is not that expensive :P | 13:48 |
cehteh | well since the data isnt encrypted one could desolder the emmc and read all data? | 13:48 |
cehteh | err | 13:48 |
cehteh | is the usb storage locked when the device is locked | 13:49 |
ggabriel | there's no usb storage | 13:49 |
cehteh | mtp? | 13:49 |
cehteh | i only set it to 'charge only' so i never tried | 13:49 |
ggabriel | yes, and that's locked as you can't select usb mode with lock on | 13:49 |
cehteh | ok | 13:49 |
cehteh | well 'expensive data' is argueable | 13:50 |
ggabriel | otoh, most people have their info in google and facebook, password is [name of pet]123 | 13:50 |
ggabriel | so who would solder stuff :P | 13:50 |
cehteh | if only someone gets onto your email credentials he may for example hack your bank account or redirect amazon shipments or whatever | 13:50 |
ggabriel | "what do you mean you use different passwords for different websites?" :P | 13:51 |
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cehteh | or even more you prolly have some other 'password reminders' stored in your email or at least someone can trigger "forgotten password" to your email | 13:51 |
cehteh | even if they are all different when your email account is compromised a lot of your accounts are toast | 13:52 |
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cehteh | i would also like to use my phone to log into servers if there is anything, but that needs the phone to be reasonable secure | 13:57 |
cehteh | (ssh) | 13:57 |
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pdanek | Should I move to Android or wait? | 15:37 |
cos- | if author of warehouse is here, the search function is quite broken | 15:38 |
cos- | search for "sailor" -> no results, "sailorgram" -> finds the app | 15:38 |
Hartzi | basil is not here | 15:38 |
pdanek | If you would have to get Android phone. | 15:40 |
pdanek | Absolutely must, no other choice. | 15:40 |
pdanek | Would it be something with Cyanogen? | 15:40 |
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* Stskeeps 'd buy fairphone, since they're good guys. | 15:41 | |
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pdanek | hmm | 15:42 |
pdanek | Stskeeps: What about Puzzlephone? | 15:42 |
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Stskeeps | doesn't exist yet | 15:42 |
pdanek | it will | 15:43 |
svuorela | pdanek: just like the jolla tablet? :) | 15:43 |
pdanek | and it seems to have far greater funding | 15:43 |
pdanek | :D | 15:43 |
pdanek | Jolla tablet must ship | 15:43 |
pdanek | legally they must ship it right? | 15:44 |
pdanek | if not, they would have to call bankrupt | 15:44 |
Nicd- | bankruptcy is a realistic possibility here I would say | 15:44 |
svuorela | isn't that kind of what they have done ? | 15:44 |
Nicd- | but I don't think they have to ship any indiegogo tablets | 15:44 |
Nicd- | different for the ones sold from their own store though | 15:44 |
pdanek | Nicd-: Do you really think bankruptcy is real? | 15:45 |
Nicd- | yes | 15:45 |
pdanek | What about the big plans? Sailfish Secure, russian government using Sailfish etc.? | 15:45 |
Nicd- | it is the only outcome if they don't get financing | 15:45 |
Nicd- | so my understanding is that it's up to external forces | 15:46 |
Nicd- | as for puzzlephone... they haven't even got $100k in over two weeks. sure hope they have some other funding :P | 15:46 |
pdanek | Isn't Sailfish too valuable for companies out there to let it die? | 15:46 |
Nicd- | apparently not | 15:46 |
pdanek | Nicd: puzzlephone has millions from some EU funding | 15:47 |
Nicd- | you have to consider jolla had tens of millions | 15:47 |
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cb400f | it _has_ to be financially sound to fund Jolla.. at least to sell tablets and until the Intex is released | 15:50 |
* cb400f will break down and cry otherwise | 15:50 | |
cb400f | don't suppose the Intex delay is related to Jolla financial concerns.. but I guess it could be :-| | 15:52 |
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Nicd- | intex cancelling the whole deal would not surprise me | 15:54 |
Nicd- | or selling very little with no marketing | 15:54 |
Nicd- | like the N9 was | 15:54 |
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cb400f | seems you can't bank on the linux community putting their money where their mouth is.. except a few tens of thousands... apparently the rest are a bunch of mindless, shortsighted, opportunistic crackpots | 16:01 |
Stskeeps | cb400f: even ubuntu touch didn't sell more than what most guessed is 25k | 16:01 |
Nicd- | cb400f: you can't really say that. sailfish is not a good user experience for many people | 16:02 |
Nicd- | especially if you think of the US where you are stuck with 2G | 16:02 |
Stskeeps | (which is why we don't sell it there) | 16:02 |
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Nicd- | personally I'm a huge fan of jolla and sailfish and it was really hard to deal with all the problems and lack of ecosystem even for me | 16:04 |
cb400f | so people could buy it as a toy or secondary phone if for some reason it doesn't fulfill their needs initially... clearly if people can't bother to support it, something like this would happen | 16:06 |
cb400f | only other smartphone I ever had was the N9, and generally the Jolla has ran circles around the N9 from day one when I bought it in januar 2014 | 16:06 |
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Nicd- | many people don't have enough money to just throw it around like that | 16:06 |
Nicd- | I sure don't | 16:06 |
cb400f | and now with 2.0 and alien dalvik much improved, it's awesome | 16:07 |
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cb400f | alot of these western european people will burn that kind of money on a friday night out on the town | 16:07 |
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cb400f | .. or a visit to the supermarket | 16:08 |
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cb400f | when they could support the coolest thing since sliced bread instead | 16:10 |
Stskeeps | from destruction comes creation | 16:11 |
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svuorela | ...how large a kickstarter campain to convince people to opensource silica, lipstick and friends? :) | 16:11 |
Stskeeps | svuorela: heh, i'm actually not sure | 16:12 |
cb400f | hopefully Stskeeps has "stolen" the whole thing on a usb stick and is prepared to set up shop on St. Helena | 16:12 |
Stskeeps | cb400f: or on path to doing something even crazier | 16:13 |
Stskeeps | :P | 16:13 |
cb400f | I hope that doesn't mean going after investors with an assault rifle ;-) | 16:15 |
Nicd- | why would you do that? | 16:15 |
Nicd- | they are the people that already gave their money | 16:15 |
Stskeeps | cb400f: ah, no, i'm not a violent person | 16:15 |
Stskeeps | :P | 16:15 |
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cb400f | right, better target the people who sat on their wallets thinking they could have their cake and eat it too... of course they might forever be punished by having to use Android, iOS or Windows Phone | 16:16 |
cb400f | so I guess they'll get what they deserve | 16:17 |
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* cb400f is listening to The Show Must Go On by Queen on Innuendo [Amarok] | 16:19 | |
svuorela | I guess I should update my secondary jolla while infrastructure is up | 16:19 |
* Stskeeps is watching 'the man in the high castle' | 16:19 | |
Nicd- | in harbour, "Estimated hours for approval": N/A :P | 16:20 |
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M4rtinK | http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-jolla.html | 18:04 |
M4rtinK | ^^ I guess the worries about unsold Jolla1 inventory might have been wrong | 18:05 |
M4rtinK | at least if the Jolla e-shop is properly linked to the inventory :) | 18:05 |
cehteh | uhm .. i still have a device return pending here and need to get money back for it | 18:06 |
cehteh | shall i keep it? | 18:06 |
Nicd- | M4rtinK: I think they just don't want new orders | 18:07 |
Nicd- | what with the company being in debt restructuring and all | 18:07 |
cehteh | i thought they need every cent they can get hold off | 18:08 |
M4rtinK | yeah, does not make sense to cut-off yet another income source | 18:08 |
Nicd- | but logistics and shipping and all that cost money | 18:08 |
M4rtinK | well | 18:08 |
Nicd- | possibly more than the few phone sales bring in | 18:08 |
cehteh | if the phone doesnt generate profit, what else? | 18:09 |
M4rtinK | I would kinda expect this to be handled by separate company anyway | 18:09 |
M4rtinK | shouldn't be that expensive to keep running | 18:09 |
M4rtinK | or even just designating like 2/3 people to handle it | 18:09 |
cehteh | they even have all stocked devices in finland ahd ship from there, not from china | 18:10 |
cehteh | well .. its possibly all my fault :D ... whenever i buy something with propietary bits it gets down the drain | 18:11 |
cehteh | n900 ... | 18:11 |
cehteh | hey even the only apple device i ever buyed ... apple newton was discontinued soon after | 18:12 |
cehteh | maybe i should buy an iphone and watch apple going bankrupt :D | 18:12 |
pesasa | cehteh: You should think closely, what you will buy next. | 18:12 |
pesasa | Exactly | 18:13 |
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Sfiet_Konstantin | damn | 18:36 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | wanted to buy a new phone | 18:36 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | too late :( | 18:36 |
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M4rtinK | Sfiet_Konstantin: well, some say it might just need to be restocked in the e-shop | 18:39 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | let's see | 18:39 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | they said that buying more jollas will help | 18:39 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | and anyway, I want a new one | 18:39 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | even if Jolla might end dissapearing | 18:39 |
Stskeeps | Sfiet_Konstantin: it seems like it was effective | 18:40 |
Stskeeps | :P | 18:40 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | Stskeeps: ? | 18:40 |
Stskeeps | if we're out of stock, may very well be we're | 18:40 |
Stskeeps | :P | 18:40 |
Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 18:40 |
Stskeeps | let's see | 18:40 |
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cehteh | Sfiet_Konstantin: i have a new phone here, unopened, delived on friday, should be returned to jolla | 18:45 |
M4rtinK | cehteh: you can sell it to Sfiet_Konstantin :) | 18:46 |
cehteh | yeah | 18:46 |
cehteh | i just written a email to jolla support, asking about postponing the return | 18:46 |
cehteh | i fear if i send it back *now* i might not get my money back, then i rather stay with a phone | 18:46 |
M4rtinK | why are you returning it anyway ? | 18:55 |
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Moo-Crumpus | for my taste jolla has just treated me. How do you feel??? | 19:26 |
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Stskeeps | Moo-Crumpus: sorry, that sentence made no sense? | 19:26 |
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Moo-Crumpus | cheated me? | 19:27 |
Nicd- | who cheated you? | 19:28 |
Moo-Crumpus | selling a tablet and not having it, offering something that you don't have? | 19:29 |
jayki | that's crowdfuning :D | 19:29 |
Stskeeps | Moo-Crumpus: first off, look at crowd funding and how it's done, it's not a sale, you contribute something to a cause and select a perk | 19:29 |
Moo-Crumpus | no, that was their shop. | 19:30 |
Moo-Crumpus | i did no crowdfunding. | 19:30 |
Stskeeps | it was never in shop.jolla.com as a loose item, that i am fairly sure of | 19:30 |
Stskeeps | ah, well i might be wrong | 19:31 |
* Stskeeps goes back to watching gogol bordello concert | 19:31 | |
Moo-Crumpus | no, it was. still have my ticket. | 19:31 |
cehteh | payed for it? | 19:31 |
Moo-Crumpus | yeah. | 19:31 |
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Nicd- | Moo-Crumpus: it's not really cheating if they run out of money and go into debt restructuring | 19:32 |
Nicd- | it would be cheating if they did have money and still did not send it | 19:32 |
cehteh | .. and make a looooong vacation on hawaii | 19:33 |
Moo-Crumpus | yes it is. you have somethibg to sell and offer it. ore you have nothing and offer it. | 19:33 |
cehteh | but i am pretty sure no one there is happy right now | 19:33 |
Stskeeps | http://shop.jolla.com/preorder_shop_en/pre-orders-delivery/ | 19:33 |
Moo-Crumpus | and sell it. | 19:33 |
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Nicd- | Moo-Crumpus: wasn't it a pre-order? | 19:34 |
Nicd- | that would mean they don't have it yet | 19:34 |
Moo-Crumpus | that would not mean we'll burn your money, so...? | 19:35 |
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Nicd- | not much they can do about not having any money though | 19:37 |
cehteh | i think most people are a bit angry with the current situation, the phones are fine, sfos is nice and mostly ok (with few issues) .. they are *almost* there to have a really great product but still didnt made profit and trying to reach for the high hanging fruit and maybe failed | 19:37 |
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Moo-Crumpus | i think they knew they are burning money. how can they still offer stuff in the shop, while there is no water left to navigate. | 19:41 |
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tbr | I don't think they knew that the situation would unfold like this | 19:41 |
tbr | also it's a start-up, they are notoriously short on money | 19:41 |
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Moo-Crumpus | sorry, my jolla just quit :) | 19:44 |
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Moo-Crumpus | so you are - somehow- sorry but you think those things happen like rain and sunshine. | 19:46 |
Nicd- | 2015-11-22T21:41:44+0200 < tbr> I don't think they knew that the situation would unfold like this | 19:48 |
Nicd- | 2015-11-22T21:41:58+0200 < tbr> also it's a start-up, they are notoriously short on money | 19:48 |
Nicd- | I agree with tbr, they said they were in the middle of a financing round but it just didn't go through (yet) | 19:49 |
Nicd- | so back then they assumed it would work out and they would be able to send the tablets normally | 19:49 |
Aciid | doesn | 19:52 |
Aciid | sorry | 19:52 |
Aciid | doesn't china mail have something like free airmail for export? | 19:52 |
Aciid | i'd digg that for mine, | 19:52 |
Moo-Crumpus | i am doing book keeping for my hometown. we do reports every month. you can see what happens, if not in case of bad luck. but what kind if bad luck should have happened. | 19:52 |
Nicd- | Moo-Crumpus: how many new hardware products has your hometown launched? | 19:54 |
Moo-Crumpus | we do every year, new kindergardens, schools, houses, | 19:55 |
Moo-Crumpus | calculate cash flow is no secret. | 19:55 |
Nicd- | I'd like to order your tablet | 19:55 |
Nicd- | does it come with your own OS? | 19:56 |
HarhaanJohtaja | well jolla is a startup that needs money from investors and if the investor do't give money when you need i | 19:57 |
Moo-Crumpus | pay me. i will tell jolla they shall guve it to you. and even sailfish is not my os, it is jollasm's. and yes, we run our kindergardens with our own is... | 19:58 |
HarhaanJohtaja | it this happens | 19:58 |
Moo-Crumpus | so they had a plan that failed. | 19:58 |
Moo-Crumpus | ore still have one, god only knows. | 20:00 |
Acce | in god they trust, I hope not | 20:01 |
tbr | maybe in the FSM | 20:01 |
Moo-Crumpus | neither me. fsm? | 20:02 |
tbr | FlyingSpaghettiMonster | 20:02 |
Aciid | HarhaanJohtaja: jolla has both chinese and russian investors and it also has some Tekes money. | 20:02 |
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Aciid | if these instruments cant fund jolla anymore then it's a game over | 20:02 |
tbr | jolla has been holding on to most of their controling shares for quite long | 20:03 |
Moo-Crumpus | yes, gambling is over | 20:03 |
tbr | so they probably still have something to offer investors, the question is what the valuation will be | 20:03 |
Moo-Crumpus | the question is, will it fit my needs and wishes. i am in doubt. | 20:04 |
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tbr | You are a mere creditor, as you have given jolla money and not received something in return | 20:05 |
tbr | if jolla should enter liquidation you can make your claim and try to get your money back | 20:06 |
Stskeeps | tbr: i think that applies to 'chapter 11' too though | 20:06 |
Moo-Crumpus | does not help me in any way, i will be one of many creditors and will get 0,001% back | 20:07 |
tbr | Stskeeps: that's misleeding "chapter 11" refers to US law, which jolla is not subject to | 20:07 |
Stskeeps | tbr: yes | 20:07 |
Stskeeps | tbr: i don't want to use the finnish word as i can't spell it | 20:07 |
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Moo-Crumpus | :) | 20:07 |
Aciid | I love how all the foreigners are rambling about class action lawsuits against jolla | 20:07 |
tbr | Stskeeps: the word you are looking for is debt restructuring | 20:07 |
Stskeeps | ok, debt restructuring | 20:07 |
Stskeeps | yes | 20:07 |
tbr | Aciid: most of them probably haven't realized, that they gave money to jolla hong kong, not jolla finland | 20:08 |
Aciid | jolla can just pull the plug and go bankrupcy if they feel like shit will go down. theres no cash to be paid anyways | 20:08 |
tbr | which would be another fun twist | 20:08 |
Moo-Crumpus | haircutt? | 20:08 |
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Moo-Crumpus | i have to leave. thank you for cure of souls. allways have good wind out there. | 20:11 |
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cehteh | on the phone, the first 4 apps in the list are fast-starter which are visible when no tasks are displayed on sfos2 ... can you make this list permanent? didnt the older sfos did it that way? | 20:21 |
Nicd- | it did and no you can't (without patches) | 20:22 |
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Nicd- | dunno if there is a patch for it | 20:22 |
ortylp | Stskeeps: I just got the news about restructuring at Jolla. Thanks for all the ideas and work you have done for the project. I hope you will find some spare time to follow and inspire the community at whatever is going to happen with maemo/meego/mer+sailfish ;) | 20:22 |
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Stskeeps | ortylp: well, besides all the chaos i'm also my own master, or at least soon | 20:23 |
Stskeeps | :P | 20:23 |
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ShaggyInc | hi | 20:23 |
ShaggyInc | is it possible to switch my jolla to Nemo or Plasma Active, now that Jolla ltd. is in debt? | 20:24 |
cos- | is nemo in any kind of usable state yet? | 20:29 |
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pdanek | Stskeeps: why you will be soon your own mater? | 20:29 |
Stskeeps | pdanek: own company :) | 20:30 |
Aciid | consulting is the best that a man can get | 20:32 |
Aciid | except for gilette blades ofcause | 20:32 |
Stskeeps | meh, just grow a beard | 20:32 |
Stskeeps | :P | 20:32 |
pdanek | Stskeeps: so even you're losing hope? | 20:32 |
Stskeeps | pdanek: nah, this is a move i've been planning for a long time, had to do it now due to accounting reasons | 20:33 |
pdanek | Stskeeps: are you contractor in Jolla now? | 20:33 |
ShaggyInc | cos-: I'd be fine with knowing I could switch to any alternative os by the time jolla shuts down (if ever). All nemo&plasma active stuff I've seen is for the N9* | 20:34 |
Stskeeps | pdanek: well, soon | 20:34 |
pdanek | ah right | 20:34 |
pdanek | ShaggyInc: not much out there yet, Tizen has low end devices so far, but high-end devices are coming... Ubuntu Touch is alright, but lacks Android support, KDE Plasma Mobile the same and very buggy... | 20:35 |
pdanek | Sailfish is most usable out of alternative Linuxes out there | 20:35 |
cos- | ShaggyInc: i don't think it would be easy. also the phone is old hw so i don't think there is much interest in working on it. | 20:36 |
pdanek | So at this moment, if I have to switch, it would probably be Android phone with Cyanogenmod or something | 20:36 |
pdanek | Android has one big advantage over Sailfish | 20:36 |
pdanek | you can make it relatively secure in comparison to Sailfish | 20:36 |
* kimmoli secures himself between sheets. gn. | 20:37 | |
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ShaggyInc | cos-: but its newer than the N9*... | 20:56 |
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pavi | I still have hopes on jolla for its limited resources, it did try a lot and even achieve a lot. OTH , sailfish ports on other hardwares,angry birds launcher:P | 20:58 |
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SkyFall | Hello~ | 21:26 |
Stskeeps | hello helo | 21:26 |
SkyFall | Dunno if jolla ships to whole Europe or just selected countries. Would like to order it to Poland. | 21:27 |
Stskeeps | SkyFall: i think the device is currently out of stock at the site but normally it ships to whole EU | 21:27 |
Stskeeps | +norway and switzerland | 21:27 |
SkyFall | Okay. Now I need to think if I prefer exploring sailfish os or buying motorola's smartwatch... that's hard >< | 21:28 |
Stskeeps | at least the sony smartwatch sw3 is quite hackable | 21:28 |
Stskeeps | :P | 21:28 |
cehteh | if smartwatch i woulg go for pebble | 21:28 |
cehteh | but i dont like wristwatches | 21:29 |
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SkyFall | Would buy Moto 360, it is quite nice.... buuuut closed comm stack, not hackable :P | 21:30 |
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Nicd- | SkyFall: you should know Jolla is currently in debt restructuring | 21:32 |
SkyFall | But... well... probably going to buy jolla, don't want to mess with porting SFOS to my Z2 unless I get backup phone. | 21:32 |
SkyFall | Nicd- I'm currently not well informed about jolla and sailfish, so forgive me this. | 21:33 |
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Nicd- | SkyFall: the company has currently run out of money and is trying to restructure to settle its debts. it is also seeking external financing to be able to continue operations | 21:34 |
Nicd- | you may want to take this into consideration as the future is currently unclear | 21:35 |
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SkyFall | Meh. Hope they don't close.. that would be huge loss to me. | 21:35 |
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* Stskeeps hums along to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8 | 21:41 | |
Stskeeps | SkyFall: where in poland, out of curiousity? | 21:41 |
SkyFall | PÅ‚ock | 21:42 |
Stskeeps | ah, warsaw here | 21:42 |
SkyFall | That's near :3 | 21:43 |
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cehteh | SkyFall: btw, i got a 2nd jlla phone shipped on friday i dont need and wanted to return, but with the "out of stock" and debt restructuring i may reconsider sending it back, maybe i can sell it somehow else, ask me next days when you are still interested | 21:47 |
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cehteh | unopened package | 21:47 |
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SkyFall | Unfortunatelly don't have enough money atm... so bad jolla ran out of money, hope they come back quickly :< | 21:48 |
cehteh | i hope so too | 21:48 |
SkyFall | Where did they post that info? on blog there is nothing about it | 21:48 |
Stskeeps | SkyFall: https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 21:49 |
Stskeeps | should be november 20, wonder why the CDN is acting up again | 21:49 |
SkyFall | BTW, do you know TOHKBD is still produced? Asking from curiousity. | 21:51 |
cehteh | nope | 21:51 |
ced117 | oh, so there is really no more stock in the jolla shop :o | 21:52 |
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pavi | TJC really has some pissed off tablet backers. Hope they get tablets soon atleast for the sake of Jollas reputation and trust | 21:53 |
M4rtinK | yeah, while I think many community members would not mind loosing their tablet pledge | 21:55 |
M4rtinK | I'm really afraid about the fallout from the remaining 10000 possibly quite angry people | 21:56 |
SkyFall | It is kind of surprising they had so much money from that tablet founding and now they run into debts. | 21:56 |
M4rtinK | its not that much | 21:56 |
M4rtinK | at least compared to Jolla-the-company budget estimates | 21:56 |
HarhaanJohtaja | it is something like 2-3 months of costs | 21:56 |
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M4rtinK | at most | 21:56 |
pavi | SkyFall: It depends on if the money for tablet is used only for tablet. These are all internal issues we would never know about | 21:56 |
M4rtinK | also there is the issue of future software maintenance | 21:58 |
M4rtinK | if for example the tablets were shipped but the company went under | 21:58 |
SkyFall | Losing jolla would suck anyway, if they fall, I will probably have no alternative to android. | 21:59 |
M4rtinK | for that reason I hope things to eventually turn for the better, even if it might cause substantial delays | 21:59 |
tiwake | M4rtinK: jolla and AMD | 22:02 |
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pavi | SkyFall: Dont worry much , I am pretty sure sailfish os will be a success in Intex India release | 22:02 |
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pavi | But they should release it fast . Before the market is gone and every person has already a smart phone and ntex would be an addon | 22:03 |
tiwake | M4rtinK: I really don't want to see either die, for the sake of keeping my data as my own | 22:03 |
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pavi | As of now not every one has a smart phone in India and they are just getting money to buy one. So Intex has a chance | 22:03 |
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tiwake | did Intex launch their sailfishOS based phone yet? | 22:04 |
ced117 | nop | 22:04 |
tiwake | when? | 22:05 |
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ced117 | good question | 22:05 |
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tiwake | the download links seem to be broken... http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5 | 22:41 |
pavi | tiwake: As of now we dont hear anything from Jolla but the blog reqiev site says early 2016 http://reviewjolla.blogspot.de/2015/10/news-sailfish-india-launch-set-to-2016.html | 22:42 |
pavi | *review | 22:42 |
pavi | I really loved the BRICS idea , the sad thing is even before we got a device out we have this debt restructuring issue and tablet mess ! | 22:43 |
pavi | Actually Intex was supposed to launch by nov or dec the last quarter of 2015 , Is the delay from Jolla or Intex , no one knows ?? | 22:44 |
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tiwake | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ is down | 22:47 |
tiwake | herm | 22:47 |
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pavi | Nokia and its URL's :P Remember all maemo , meego and lastly Qt URL went broke :D | 22:48 |
tiwake | I know | 22:48 |
tiwake | that does not change the fact that I have to reflash my N900 | 22:48 |
tiwake | not sure where to get what I need to do that | 22:50 |
pavi | tiwake: I have an N900 with battery going broke , no way to charge it thanks to the USB issue and also the famous sim not being recognised. Dunno what to do with it. | 22:50 |
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tiwake | pavi: donno... mine seems to work fine, hardware wise | 22:52 |
pavi | tiwake: you might be the few lucky ones, be careful with the USB though | 22:52 |
tiwake | I have been ;) | 22:52 |
tiwake | http://maemo-flasher.software.informer.com/3.5/ | 22:53 |
tiwake | hmm | 22:54 |
Lieke_ | tiwake: i found this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1427962&postcount=25 | 22:54 |
pavi | tiwake: so you are running Nemo on it ? How is it ? able to run any of these sailfish os apps on it ? | 22:54 |
tiwake | Lieke_: ooo thanks, will sift through that | 22:54 |
tiwake | pavi: donno what nemo is, and I havent installed any programs on it in a couple years (one of the reasons why I need to reflash it) | 22:55 |
pavi | tiwake: Nemo runs on N900 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rp32sOiNNQ | 22:56 |
pavi | Nemo is a full fledged OS which is open source and has MER as its base. Sailfishos also has mer as its base https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo | 22:58 |
tiwake | enh | 22:58 |
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tiwake | what happened was I installed the dev build http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU | 23:00 |
tiwake | but had some early software sources being used for some programs | 23:00 |
tiwake | it kinda borked some things, but made other things work better | 23:01 |
tiwake | so gonna reflash and try again, only with stable :P | 23:02 |
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pavi | tiwake: the last I knew which was 2 years back CSSU wasnt so recommended as the devs moved on to jolla or cyanogenmod | 23:05 |
tiwake | and nemo is more suggested? | 23:07 |
tiwake | or a new phone? heh | 23:07 |
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pavi | nemo runs kind of ok but wont replace maemo | 23:09 |
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tiwake | then it won't do me any good | 23:10 |
pavi | you can try it out | 23:10 |
tiwake | don't have an internal memory card | 23:11 |
tiwake | nor does my maemo work very well anymore | 23:11 |
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pavi | ask in #maemo there are still people there | 23:12 |
tiwake | just gonna reflash maemo for now | 23:13 |
tiwake | maybe get my cellphone more usable for a while longer | 23:14 |
tiwake | until I can buy a more modern sailfishOS based phone | 23:14 |
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pavi | tiwake: come to channel #maemo , you can ask some interesting ppl there ;) | 23:16 |
tiwake | pff, fine | 23:17 |
tiwake | lol | 23:17 |
pavi | tiwake: also that channel is awake unlike this one :P | 23:17 |
pdanek | guys | 23:20 |
pdanek | I need Sailfish to be big! | 23:20 |
pdanek | Sailfish phones everywhere | 23:20 |
pdanek | apps everywhere | 23:20 |
pdanek | what should I do | 23:20 |
phlixi_ | buy jolla | 23:21 |
phlixi_ | (the company) | 23:21 |
phlixi_ | or two jollas | 23:22 |
phlixi_ | (well, you guessed it, ttwo companies) | 23:22 |
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pavi | pdanek: as of now wait(); | 23:30 |
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