#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-11-25

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ArtVandalaeI'd be interested/excited to see what Jolla could do with 1 more year of funding. They've achieved a hell of a lot in the last 2-307:37
StskeepsArtVandalae: well, i guess a xmas party would be appropiate07:39
Stskeeps:P07:39
tortoisedoc:D07:39
tortoisedocits christmas soon, after all07:39
tortoisedocStskeeps : is it known which investor pulled out in nov?07:40
Stskeepstortoisedoc: you know i'm not supposed to talk about that kind of stuff07:41
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tortoisedocStskeeps: actually, no, i didnt:P07:41
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pp_typically they're all sorts of funds which have strategies and they buy/sell based on "does not fit into our portfolio"07:48
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tortoisedocpp_ : I see; so it's a matter of fitting into their portfolio rather than the endresult08:34
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pp_usually... I'd guess some chinese fund (the russians have so many problems now :-) )08:36
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pp_the managers of the fund basically gather x companies of which all but 1-2 fail (and they get profit in y years by selling their shares to the next investor who needs that in their portfolio)08:38
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tortoisedocpp_ : I guess finnish funds are not viable?08:38
tortoisedoclike tekes & co08:38
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pp_tekes is govt money, they give out loans (but only a few million most likely) and subsidies08:39
pp_banks do have some small company funds, but again, investments have to be within the rules of the fund. I think something like "Danske invest" had 1.5% of jolla at some point08:40
pp_but at this point I think something like 20% is needed08:40
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Nicd-tortoisedoc: tekes has already funded jolla a lot, they will probably not give out any more08:41
tortoisedocthat'd be 20% of 50 m right?08:41
tortoisedocNicd- : aren't govt funds supposed to support non-viable businesses?08:42
tortoisedoc:)08:42
lainwir3do/08:42
tortoisedoc\o08:42
Nicd-tortoisedoc: no, it is to support research and development08:42
tiwaketortoisedoc: only if its in a flood zone08:43
tortoisedochuh08:43
pp_50-100Mish (and these numbers are pretty much coming from my arse ;) )08:43
tortoisedocJolla : move to a flood zone quickly :P08:43
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tiwakehehe08:43
tiwakethe servers need to be flooded twice a year08:43
tortoisedocshould be easy with the current weather situation in finland08:43
tortoisedocdo pipe bursts count as floods?08:44
tiwakenot really, needs to be a land zoning08:44
tortoisedocokay, so a full pipeline burst at least08:44
tiwakeso FEMA can swoop in and save the day08:45
tortoisedocpp_ : 20% of 100M is half the funding raised so far; 10M not enough? :P08:45
tiwakeFEMA works in different countries, right?08:45
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tortoisedoctiwake : what's FEMA?08:46
tiwakeUSA's... uh, I'm going to call it wealth redistribution method08:47
tiwakeone of the main ones anyway08:47
tortoisedocah08:47
tortoisedocso USA's tekes08:47
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tortoisedocit is weird for the investor to pull out after such a short timeframe08:48
tiwakeI think its supposed to be for natural disasters, for largish areas, like tornado in a city or major flooding or something... but its used a lot more than that08:48
tortoisedocone could think they would understand it takes a longer period to profit08:48
tiwaketortoisedoc: yeah, it takes time to build a customer base... lol08:50
tiwakekind of a lot of time08:50
tortoisedoctiwake : that's not the point here; it was known it would not be an instant success08:50
tortoisedoc:)08:50
tiwakeah08:51
tortoisedoc(apart of the fact of it being a bit overhyped in the beginning if you allow my 2c :P )(08:51
tiwakethats good, cause such things hardly ever are08:51
tortoisedocyea :(08:52
tiwakewhat is the processor in the jolla phone08:54
tortoisedocist krait08:55
tortoisedocis *It krait08:55
tortoisedoc800?08:55
tortoisedoc(snapdragon)08:55
tiwake"Qualcomm Dual Core 1.4GHz"08:55
tortoisedoclols08:56
tiwakegoogle does not know what processor that is08:56
tortoisedocbs what i said08:56
tortoisedochttp://www.gsmarena.com/jolla_jolla-5457.php08:56
tortoisedocsnapdragon 40008:56
tiwakeah ok08:56
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tiwakeI'm comparing the nexus 5 with jolla phone08:59
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tiwakecause I want a cellphone with sailfishOS on it :P09:01
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coderusMust have! https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/powermenu-209:04
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tiwakeI think I might just get a used nexus 5 and try to put sailfishOS on it09:05
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birdzhangcoderus: wonderful09:06
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tortoisedoccoderus : cool09:06
coderusnow please i waht to go to sleep09:06
coderuscoding all the night :D09:06
tortoisedoccoderus : go to sleep now!09:08
birdzhang:smooch:09:08
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anYcwas there any statement from jolla if the sfos updates will be delayed due to the recent events?10:18
Nicd-not directly10:18
Nicd-but it is implied that yes10:18
tbrI wouldn't expect any software rollouts any time soon10:19
anYcsad, thanks10:20
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pp_wonder how many parts already lost their sailor :/ rpm changelog vs. linkedin may tell10:24
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tortoisedocis this correct; half of the staff on forced leave10:51
tortoisedocnot half layd off + the rest on forced leave?10:51
ggabrieltemporary leave10:51
tortoisedocggabriel still forced it is10:52
Nicd-tortoisedoc: the information so far has been that "around" half will be put on temporary leave10:52
ggabrielit's still forced, yes; but the term is temporary in .fi10:52
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Nicd-no more info than that10:52
Stskeepssome left on own regard for various reasons, about 50% temporarily laid off, but sufficient to keep the ship afloat for now still around10:52
tortoisedocok10:53
tortoisedocthanks Stskeeps as always :)10:53
tortoisedocStskeeps is being the lighthouse in the storm it seems10:53
Stskeepsnah, others are10:53
Nicd-ggabriel: actually the directly translated term here is "vacationating" or something like that :D "lomautus" ("loma" == "vacation/holiday")10:53
tortoisedocwell, from our perspective at least :P10:53
SceltI feel that the one and only Jolla-to-community-communicator leaves the building (or the ship) when Stskeeps leaves Jolla10:53
ggabrielwell, the info is in the blog/pr in fairness10:53
ggabrielNicd-: ok, was talking about the temporary bit :P I think it's a interesting concept10:54
ggabrielthat's unfair to cybette, Scelt :P10:54
Stskeepscybette had her last day too, though10:54
ggabrielshe's still posting stuff tho10:54
StskeepsScelt: sit down and have a beer with juhani lassila at some point10:54
ggabrielfrom the raft10:54
Sceltggabriel: you can't change what a man feels. My main spot in here, in IRC, and Stskeeps is here with us10:55
Stskeepsnod10:55
tortoisedocso theoretically10:55
tortoisedocas Stskeeps has already left jolla10:56
tortoisedocdoes that imply we have no communicator left10:56
Stskeepsi have 5 days left of work and will probably contract a while after that10:56
tortoisedocbut Stskeeps is still communicating :O10:56
* tortoisedoc confused10:56
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ggabrielyou can still be part of the community without working for jolla10:56
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tortoisedocggabriel : sure sure, but <Scelt> "when Stskeeps leaves Jolla"10:57
ggabrielI suppose it depends what kind of information you are after10:58
tbrnnnnngh, trying so hard not to say more negative things about communications so far than this sentence implies10:58
ggabrielwe'll miss Stskeeps's direction, for sure10:58
Sceltdown to earth10:58
tbrbasically it will get worse10:58
Stskeepswell, depending on some people's perspective i've just been a liar and a scammer so far, so well, :)10:59
Stskeepslet' see10:59
ggabrielhaha, yeah10:59
SfietKonstantinW:/10:59
tortoisedocdamn damn damn me for bringing it up :/10:59
* Stskeeps ponders going to fetch some food10:59
* tortoisedoc tbr shush you10:59
Stskeepsnah, tbr is probably right10:59
tbrStskeeps: don't forget the beer10:59
tortoisedoctbr +111:00
tortoisedocactually11:00
ggabrieleverything will get worse, not just comms11:00
tortoisedocits wednesday11:00
tortoisedocshould get some too :D11:00
ggabrielharbour, service and so on11:00
Stskeepsit's a really tight situation and communication has to be very careful not to keel the ship over even more; especially with creditors having a lot of power over company11:00
ggabrielsetting one's expectations right is the first step11:00
MMxfood. Good plan.11:00
tortoisedocggabriel : only IF11:00
MMxcanteen opens in 15min...11:00
tortoisedocMMx : canteen?11:00
MMxcafeteria, whatever11:01
ggabrieli could get food now (I'm startving) but  must wait 30 mins (11 in the morning is too early :P )11:01
tortoisedocah :D11:01
SfietKonstantinWtortoisedoc: food repository11:01
tbrnp: star wars cantina11:01
MMx$foodplace11:01
Stskeepsmeanwhile http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/11/kickstarter-learned-of-zano-collapse-through-a-bare-bones-project-update/ is a chilling tale11:01
MMxtbr: jepp. something like that.11:01
tortoisedoctbr : yeah cantin, like the next one in the series will be :/11:01
Stskeeps"Reeves also passed along an e-mail sent to backers from Gary Stones, the liquidator hired to formally end the company and repay any creditors. Stones warned that any money that Kickstarter backers spent "are not debts owed by the company nor are they equity investments."11:01
StskeepsAs such, Stones concluded: "Without remotely being inconsiderate, any Kickstarter ‘backers’ that attempt to gain access at the creditors’ meeting on December 4, 2015 will be refused entry.""11:01
tbrhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPf-MRKITg (if your local MAFIAA censorship permits)11:02
ggabrielwell, but isn't that how ks works?11:02
tortoisedocStskeeps : well that had to happen11:02
leinirit absolutely is, yup11:02
leinirbut many kickstarter backers don't understand this... which is sad, but not really surprising11:03
Stskeepswhile in a debt restructuring situation it may actually be possible to get a refund in exchange for company goodwill -> bigger value; not saying that'd happen11:03
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ggabrielsouth park's apple centipede :) (read the friendly t&c's)11:03
ggabrielStskeeps: well, but once beancounters take over, forget about goodwill and so on11:04
tortoisedocggabriel : awesome episode11:04
tortoisedoc"why cant it read" :D11:04
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Stskeepsggabriel: let's not assume that beancounters don't understand that the value of an asset is diminished when there's a huge amount of pissed off supporters that will haunt every instance of the asset anywhere..11:04
Stskeepsand it coming up in every press article etc11:04
ggabrieluhm... depends on the laws I suppose11:05
Stskeepssure, they can ignore it, but is it best for asset? :P11:05
tbrStskeeps: don't forget that as long as the relation of jolla hkg is not fully understood there is no direct relation between the IGG campaign and jolla oy11:05
Stskeepstbr: yes11:05
tbrdoes anyone know the status of jolla hkg?11:05
Stskeepstbr: not dead11:05
tbrk11:06
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Stskeepsbut since it's a subsidiary of jolla oy, i'd presume it is comparable situation11:06
Stskeeps(i think that's the case, at least, i haven't exactly seen the ownership situation)11:06
Stskeepssubsidiary might even be the wrong term11:06
Stskeepsbut yes, indiegogo campaign is with jolla hkg; preorders on shop.jolla.com is a different matter11:07
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Stskeepswhat i more wonder if these kind of cases will lead to crowdfunding cases that are decentralized and trustless11:09
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Stskeepsand observeable every step of the way, by nature11:09
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dirkvlStskeeps: I see a lot of decentralised crowdfunding lately11:20
dirkvlin holland a lot11:20
dirkvlfriends of mine did it with electric bike (Spaac)11:21
dirkvlguys with beach restaurant that wanted to expand11:21
dirkvlthink it makes it a lot more personal than being on the huge list of projects on ks or igg11:22
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RaYmAnStskeeps: curiously, the only thing that indicates it's not Jolla oy, is that location is set as "Hong kong". Everywhere else indicates it's the same jolla company.11:27
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ggabrielgame for lunchtime: xkcd.com11:28
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StskeepsRaYmAn: yes11:37
StskeepsRaYmAn: it says 'bank account country: hong kong', in details as well11:38
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StskeepsRaYmAn: it was also from practical POV, payments went from there, shipping starts there, etc11:38
Stskeepsand well, the fact that finland doesn't allow donations or crowdfunding11:38
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pdanekAre tablets still made and sold by Jolla or the separate hardware division/company?11:55
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yestoallhi everyone, can someone explain to me why in Linux the SDK gets stuck at generating keys during installation?11:56
yestoalli just don't get it.11:57
Stskeepsyestoall: lack of entropy?11:57
Helle_a very real issue11:57
Helle_virtual machine ?11:57
yestoallit's on a macbook air, ubuntu 15.1011:57
Stskeepsubuntu 15.10 running in a VM?11:57
yestoallin 15.10 the wlan driver is no longer listed under prorpietary drivers, so i thought it might work finally, but it doesn't11:58
yestoallno, on metal11:58
Helle_yestoall: then just give it some mouse input :)11:59
yestoallwell that's fine, but should it completely lock up the computer anyway? :-)12:00
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yestoallsheezzz... it is always failing at the stage where it installs the emulator12:26
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cybetteggabriel: thanks :) several sailors do help communicate through various channels so it wasn't just me. it's certainly not a one man/woman job..14:08
cybettebut yeah, maybe i'll start to have more time to post stuff esp. as myself when i don't have all the jolla channels to worry about :)14:08
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Nicd-you leaving too, cybette?14:09
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cybetteNicd-: left on monday14:09
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Nicd-oh14:12
Nicd-thanks for all you did!14:12
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cybetteNicd-: it was my honor and pleasure. and i'm still around in the community :)14:13
cybettehttps://diasp.eu/posts/3744790 this sums things up14:13
the_mgtwhoa, that's hard. thanks from me, too14:13
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cybettebut for now i have to meet a friend for coffee :) bbl14:14
cybettethe_mgt: cheers!14:14
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pdanekDoes the layoffs mean that in next few months, Sailfish development will rapidly slow down?16:22
pdanekAnd current roadmap won't be followed?16:22
Stskeepsi think it's safe to say a lot of things will likely change, depending on money and talent availability16:23
ggabrielpdanek: I'd assume "yes" to both questions16:23
pdanekBecause smartphone world moves fast.16:24
pdanekSailfish might be capable to compete with Android now, but not in 1 year if development gets stuck.16:24
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laxtloIf intex dont release sailfishos phone's the game is over.16:25
pdanekEven if they do?\16:26
pdanekIt's like releasing N9.16:26
pdanekWith zero OS development, it will be first and last phone released.16:26
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laxtloMeaby16:27
Stskeepsah, don't underestimate the possibility of deus ex machina situations16:27
kimmolimeanwhile http://hashbang.gr/breaking-the-4th-wall-with-minecraft/16:28
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M4rtinK_phone_also if the dual-licensing deal comes through I thing it can help move things forward at least a bit16:30
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M4rtinK_phone_I'm sure at least some longstand non-critical-but-annoying bugs would be fixed fairly quickly16:32
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M4rtinK_phone_possibly some of the more popular feature requests too16:32
M4rtinK_phone_other than that it is indeed guesswork as you of course can't manage a communit - at least in the classical sense16:34
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tiwakedual licensing would be nice16:36
pdanekTizen supports Android apps too, oh... I didn't know.16:37
Stskeepspdanek: poorly16:37
pdanekStskeeps: Jolla has better support?16:37
Stskeepsmuch16:38
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pdanekThen Blackberry support must be even better I'd say.16:43
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cehtehhttp://xkcd.com/1110/   finally some killer app for the tablet :D17:05
dirkvlwe need native heavenly tetris17:09
TemeVcehteh: how does this new one work on tablet? http://xkcd.com/1608/17:15
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ggabrieldef doesn't work on the qt or native browser on the phone :P17:15
cehtehdunno i dont have a tablet :D17:15
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TemeVggabriel: :/17:16
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Lucky_lukefacebook lite give us an app :-p17:16
TemeVbut could somebody still tell me why I'm obsessed on collecting those coins?17:16
Lucky_lukenot so good as friends buy17:16
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cehtehwhat is 'statefs'  it seems to hog my cpu and device is quite warm17:37
Stskeepsdeztructor's invention ^17:38
cehtehrebooting :D17:39
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deztructorcehteh: if you can debug, you can try to install oprofile and detect what issue do you have, also journal could be helpful17:42
AciidHA688532on November 24, 2015 at 6:44 pm17:42
AciidKyllä tuon nyt saatana saattais kertoa suomen kielelläkin, ei kaikki osaa englantia.17:42
Aciidyall need to help this guy17:42
cehtehdeztructor: i just rebooted17:42
deztructorcehteh: if you reproduce the issue and need help, ping me17:43
deztructors/reporduce/will reproduce/17:43
cehtehok17:43
cehtehwell i have no idea why it got stuck17:43
* deztructor is curious17:44
cehtehstarted lighthouse, saied the process ran at high cpu constantly and 'situations' took some considerably cpu too  .. temperature at 67°C .. rebooted17:44
cehtehnext time i may look closer17:44
cehtehcharging on USB btw17:45
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deztructorok, ping me if you'll see it17:46
cehtehi hope i never see that again :D17:46
cehtehanyone else reported similar issues?17:46
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TofeAh, sailors, you can't have an IRC chat meeting *and* move office location at the same time? Tsss17:48
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Acceisn't that what smartphones are for? you can IRC while on the move :)18:10
StskeepsTofe: if you have to lift shit you can't type18:11
Stskeeps:P18:11
kjetilho"OK, Jolla, enter in fingerterm: s-t-s tab Oh yeah?"18:12
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sjnkjetilho: hey, you're here! :)18:13
* sjn didn't know kjetilho had a Jolla too18:13
kjetilhounfortunately, my Jolla is in a drawer, pending resurrection/reinstall18:14
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sjnaw18:14
* sjn is a little sad that he still gets surprised when he meets people with a Jolla phone18:15
sjnthey're so far between eachother, it's almost like meeting a new secret club member every time18:16
deztructorcehteh: I am not sure I heard about such issues but who knows, so, at least, it should not be frequent :) while still it bothers me if such thing could happen18:17
sjnmaybe that should have been a hint about Jolla's economic situation. :-\18:17
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kidsjn: mine is till very much alive, sjn :)18:22
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phlixi_i think it happend exactly one time, that i located a "random stranger" using a jolla (also one time some one using a pre n900 maemo device)18:25
phlixi_of course i do not count hackerspace, meeting friends etc ;-)18:25
phlixi_and i am using public transport A LOT... and everyone is staring at some smart display (ok, not everyone)18:26
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phlixi_shocking how much of the those play those little bubble games18:27
dirkvldid you went like https://media.giphy.com/media/iyMWq8tPfNeiA/giphy.gif ?18:27
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dirkvli never saw one in the wild18:30
dirkvl´this is a jolla, but you have never heard of that´18:30
dirkvlgenerally, people in holland dont give a flying fish about phones18:31
PeperJohnnyI saw two people with n900 and one with a n9 but no jollas so far18:31
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PeperJohnnytwo of these people are it collegues18:31
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cehtehplaying webradio, my phone loosing the wlan connection quite frequently is that a known problem?18:47
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cb400fnever had that... I do listen to a few podcasts on my beloved Jolla when doing the dishes18:55
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merlin1991cehteh: bt enabled?19:09
cehtehnop19:10
merlin1991Well so much for my guess :)19:10
cehtehmaybe its my network connection then19:12
AmadeusXNetcehteh: Tried removing the WiFi key and pair it again?19:15
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cehtehwhat shall that fix?19:16
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cehtehwell i am now tryin disabling the torrent server :D19:16
cehtehmaybe that caused it19:17
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AmadeusXNet:)19:18
twaapoa19:19
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cehtehok i think that fixed it20:06
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