#jollamobile log for Monday, 2015-12-21

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lainwir3do/06:34
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fluxdoes anyone know of a thin ~jolla-sized external battery?08:39
fluxI was thinking such a thing might be nice if added some magnets compatible with the tohkbd back cover08:39
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MikaelaCheck TJC,  some phone  model was08:44
kimmoliflux: http://techreplies.com/sonys-new-super-thin-external-usb-battery.html08:49
kimmolisomething like that? it is little bit wider than phone08:49
fluxjolla is 131 x 68 x 9.9, that thing is 130.6 x 70.4 x 12.9, pretty darn exact fit!08:51
fluxonly thing missing is a super-short usb cable to connect it :)08:51
fluxnot sure if one can actually buy that battery, though :-)08:52
kimmolihttp://usbfever.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=232008:52
fluxnooo, I must go shorter!08:53
coderussolder08:53
flux..but that's pretty nice08:53
fluxI guess it would be reasonable to try shortening that cable08:53
fluxand not mind shorting that 7000mAh+ battery in your pocket.. ;)08:53
kimmoli20cm is not super-short08:54
kimmolibut it has angled connectors08:54
kimmolior tear apart the battery-pack and add pogopins to connect to tohkbd-toh charging input08:55
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fluxaccording to my quick ebay review, 10 cm cables with both connectors angled are pretty much non-existant :/08:57
fluxwell, I can worry about it when that battery is actually available :)08:58
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kimmolihttp://www.dhgate.com/product/hight-quality-gift-ultra-thin-usb-battery/161698018.html09:01
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kimmolithere are these "10000mAh" options then09:01
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fluxfree shipping to finland via ups? :-o09:07
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fluxbut it's going to be 8 mm narrower than jolla, so the magnets might not work well09:09
fluxoops I mean shorter09:09
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fluxwidth is fine, but only one set of the magnets get proper contact?09:09
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kimmoli3d print some holder?09:34
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fluxthat's certainly an option, but on the other hand it would be wasting space that could be used for battery09:37
fluxbatter than nothing I guess :)09:37
fluxin particular given the price of the battery.. though almost certainly it is less than rated size :)09:38
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sledgesggabriel: thanks for asking, yes, safe and sound, enjoying countryside piece'n'quiet:))09:38
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phlixi_oit has to be something really silly, but i am not able to cennect via putty12:41
phlixi_o...at the same time no problem with filezilla to connect to Jolla via SFTP12:42
phlixi_oany ideas what this might cause?12:43
Wntphlixi_o: what is your error when trying to connect with putty?12:44
phlixi_ono error, just takes forever12:45
Wntyuo use the same ip & port as with filezilla? on the same machine?12:45
phlixi_oin filezilla i do not use ip, but just "Jolla" (without the quotes) as hostname, no port, thus i guess default is used (22)12:46
Wntdo you have some software firewall which might prevent putty from making outbound connections?12:46
phlixi_oi can connect to other machines just fine with putty12:47
phlixi_oi havent used it for a while, but had saved connections and they worked a few months back...12:47
Wntcheck your jolla's ip-address from the settings -> developer mode ->12:47
phlixi_osame result12:47
Wntand use that as the server address in putty?12:47
phlixi_oalready tried ip instead of hostname, because hostname "Jolla" gets converted to "Jolla.fritz.box" (also tried "Jolla.")12:48
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Wnttry running Putty with command line parameter -v so you can see more datails what it is doing before it hangs http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/0.58/htmldoc/Chapter3.html#using-cmdline-v12:50
phlixi_owhen you said "What error message?" I started a new try, and it is still just blinking cursor (thats 5 minutes now...) i think usually this should already give an error like "does not respond" or similar12:50
phlixi_oyeah, thats a good ida12:50
phlixi_oidea12:50
phlixi_o...could have come up myself to start it via CLI and more verbose..12:51
phlixi_ono cygwin on this machine just s*cks...12:53
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coderusi'm using MobaXTerm instead of putty these days13:03
phlixi_oif it is some sort of problem with piutty, i probably install cygwin as on the other machines...13:04
phlixi_obut thats weird, it was working when i configured it, now it does not anymore...13:05
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lainwir3dmy mms don't work anymore :-(13:19
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sledgeslainwir3d: mms logger installed?13:24
lainwir3dnope, looking at the daemon traces13:25
coderusphlixi_o: mobaxterm have cygwin inside :D13:25
coderuskind of13:25
lainwir3dsledges:  seems like the end url terminates in 40413:25
lainwir3d404 error I mean13:25
lainwir3dseems like an operator problem13:25
sledgeslainwir3d: try another phoen13:25
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lainwir3ddon't have one for the moment :-/13:26
lainwir3dI'll keep looking up13:26
phlixi_ocoderus: the screenshots look nice, but do not think i will pay 50 bucks for that, i only need a commanline no RDP etc (already have tools for that)13:28
coderusphlixi_o: there is free version13:29
coderusbucks for something like more than 3 tabs i think13:29
coderusand i have a crack for it :D13:29
phlixi_o...also i think "Remove unwanted games, screensaver or tools" either means the free version comes with malware (of course they will call it "premium extras or whatever", or that it has some kind of malware remover tool or whatever (what shouldnt be part of such remote-thingy-hub) thus i consider it beeing "shady software"13:30
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phlixi_o...or at least bloatware13:32
phlixi_obut thanks for the suggestion, much appreciated :-)13:32
coderusphlixi_o: "games" comes with cygwin installation :D there is packages manager for it.13:34
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lainwir3dwell, works again13:40
lainwir3ddon't know what i've done13:40
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pdanekI need Intex.16:58
pdanekWhy is it taking so long.16:58
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phlixi_osuch impatientness17:07
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Yanieldoes XMPP on sfos support StartTLS?18:24
cehtehisnt starttls the default in xmpp?18:30
cehtehat least it works for me18:32
cehtehserver only listends at 5222 .. so i guess thats starttls18:33
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Yanielhmm...18:36
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fluxI ~copy-pasted mpris support to vlc-remote, now it can be controlled from my pebble!19:54
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coderusyes pbble can control mpris supported players20:01
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pdanekcoderus, flux: Are you talking about Pebble Classic?20:21
pdanekIs it still worth buying? Or outdated watch?20:22
Hellepdanek: it's still worth it actually for many reasons20:25
fluxpdanek, I have Pebble Steel and it's nice20:25
HelleI own the Pebble Time (and pondering a Pebble Time Round sometime during the year for a cuter watch)20:25
pdanekhmmm20:25
Hellebut most major apps I use work fine on the original20:25
Hellethe main limitation is that the OS is a bit weird, I think they still only allow 8 apps installed at once20:26
fluxI don't think it's just weirdness for weirdness sake, because the MCU has very puny resources20:26
fluxie. flash20:26
flux..but they could probably have allocated in a more dynamic fashion20:26
Helleflux: the Pebble Time also has a limited # of apps installed, but when you select an app that is uninstalled on the watch and it downloads it on the fly20:27
fluxbut on the other hand it was just last friday at a bar when a colleague's LG did not show time by mine did.. ;-) (ie. out of battery)20:27
Helleeven with the OS update, the original Pebble still doesn't do that appaerently20:27
fluxhelle, I don't think the original pebble still has the new os? or has it been released now?20:27
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Helleflux: it's just been released20:27
fluxoh, nice20:28
Helleflux: the Pebble watches are the only ones I'd consider for battery life reasons alone20:28
pdanekPebble Time round in all black looks nice20:28
fluxwell, regardless I guess the Jolla app won't have such a great v3 support for some time20:28
pdanekbut I think Sailfish support on Pebble Time isn't top notch20:28
Helleit isn't20:28
pdanekfor full support I need pebble classic20:28
fluxfor full..ish ;-)20:28
HelleI have my watch paired to my tablet unless I am travelling20:28
Helleso yeah20:29
HelleI might look at fixing some stuff20:29
HelleI really like my red and black one (actually I am not a huge fan of the availible round ones, gold isn't quite my colour.... and others are more masculin)20:29
Helle(which is also the issue with the regular Time)20:30
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sobukusMeh, just realised that the Jolla doesn't read an UDF sd card.23:10
sobukusThis filesystem is about the only choice that has files > 4GiB and some kind of portability between machines (especially by avoiding ownership/permissions).23:11
noumehaven't tried that yet but btrfs, ext2/3/4, exfat, vfat, fat works23:11
noumemaybe even NTFS23:11
sobukusNeed files > 4 GiB. And about ext2: What UID should own the files? Was it 1000 for nemo?23:12
noumemom23:12
noumei'll look it up23:12
noumeAccording to /etc/passwd the UID is 10000023:13
sobukusOh, wow.23:15
sobukusWell, giving the filesystem mode 1777 should be a start to allow the Jolla to write to it.23:15
noumebtrfs has some quirks as the Jolla can only work with low versions of btrfs23:16
sobukusIt's funny that the device indeed jumped on btrfs so early. You wouldn't think that a high-performance large-scale filesystem is needed for a smartphone.23:17
sobukusnoume: Wait … exfat is supported? So Jolla paid MS for a license?23:17
noumeAnd it is completely unnecessary23:17
noumesobukus: You'll need to install some third party utils but from then on it works23:18
noumeSo no official support23:18
noumeas far as i have seen, the JOlla phone uses none of the killer features of btrfs that ext4 could not do23:19
sobukusHm, before I install exfat, I'd rather just install the udf driver, which should be part of the kernel.23:19
sobukusI could mount it via root shell if the mount scripts don't get it yet … and even that looks like something trivial to fix.23:20
noumeWhy are you trying to use UDF? If i'm not mistaken, UDF is a WORM filesystem...23:20
sobukusNope.23:20
sobukusUDF is also designed for DVD-RAM, it's read/write, can do large files, needs no permissions (ownership optional, methinks).23:21
sobukusIt's supported in various operating systems since a long time.23:21
noumeCan it do permissions?23:21
sobukusI think it can, but actually I don't want it to.23:22
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sobukushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format23:22
noumeI still can't see a reason for using it23:22
noumeMaybe large file support and compatibility with Windows23:23
cehtehif it would be better supported only23:24
sobukusThose two and exactly the point of having _no_ permissions.23:24
sobukusFor a sdcard that I swap between devices, file permissons are a nuisance.23:24
sobukusI don't have user 100000 on my other machines.23:24
noumeok, fair point. But you still have rsync, UMS, sshfs and scp on the Jolla phone. All of which are supported by Windows23:25
sobukusWell, I don't actually have to copy data to windows machines on a regular basis, it just feels wrong to format removable small-scale storage with full-blown UNIX filesystems.23:26
noumeor free(ware) third party software23:26
noumeBut it still makes sense23:26
sobukusAnd having differing UID on my laptop vs. the Jolla is inconvenient … the user restrictions of the file system make no sense there.23:26
noumeany unix filesystem is better than vfat23:27
noumeit's faster and has less overhead23:27
phlixi_except even your fridge probably can read and write fat23:27
phlixi_speed is probably always bad on micro sd23:28
noumeThat only matters if you ever plan to swap your storage SD card between your phone and your fridge23:28
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noumethere are tf cards that can read and write in excess of 60MBytes/s23:28
noumethat's not what i'd consider slow23:29
* phlixi_ never takes the sd out of the phone...23:29
phlixi_thats what wlan is made for :D23:29
sobukusWell, I do swap between phone and laptop. With ext2/3/4 I'll have to mess with permissons as root user …23:29
noumei'm purely using scp and rsync for that23:29
sobukusVia developer mode?23:29
noumeyes23:30
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phlixi_yes23:30
noumeyou could also uses SMB/Samba for that as well23:30
phlixi_or even mtp *g*23:30
noumethat's the more Windows'ish way to do it23:30
sobukusThe transfer via USB MTP is a pain under Linux.23:30
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noumeGod forbid, not MTP, no!23:30
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phlixi_its is unusable on windows too23:31
noumeit works quite well but it is painfully slow23:31
phlixi_to be fair never tried it on the jolla, but on several nexus, that was allways hell23:31
noumethere are so many different MTP versions out there and not all of them are supported by every Windows version23:31
noumeit appears to work better on linux with libmtp thatn with Windows prior to Win723:31
coderuskernel patches seems to be required for udf support?23:31
noumeyou could always use fuse23:32
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sobukuscoderus: A normal Linux has UDF as standard filesystem in kernel. I would be surprised if there would be hackery needed for the Jolla kernel, unless somebody intentionally wanted to make it hard …23:34
noumeif the kernel does not have support, you could still compile your own?23:34
noumeThat'S not a very good option, i know23:35
sobukusI'd need the kernel sources, are they available easily? just building a module shouldn't even be too hard on the device itself.23:36
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noumeit would take quite a lot of time i guess23:39
sobukusI built kernels on laptops slower than the Jolla;-)23:39
sobukusBut well, I'm trying ext2 for now.23:40
noumeand if there are any blobs involved you'll need an appropriate kernel version23:40
sobukusUDF is as open as it gets, no blobs.23:40
noumecross compiling to ARM is quite slow but if you have another more beefy device with the same ARM architecture, that might be a better option23:40
sobukusI'm really wondering why it is not used more.23:40
noumeYou would have to compile EVERYTHING, not just the UDF support23:41
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noumeuhm, maybe because UDF has no killer features and it is not that popular23:49
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sobukusnoume: Eh, it's not popular because it is not that popular?23:52
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sobukusCan't argue with that logic;-)23:52
noumeit is not used more because not too many people know about it23:52
noumethat's what i wanted to say23:53
sobukusWell, it is still strange, because it would be good to replace FAT for external media.23:53
sobukusIt's royalty-free, it can do large files. That's a killer feature.23:53
noumeand so does almost any modern filesystem used in UNIX-like operating systems23:55
noumethe only downside is: No Windows support23:56
sobukusAnd nuisance between machines because of non-matching UIDs.23:57
noumeThat'S what ACLs are for23:58
noumeor maybe you could make your filesystems UID-agnostic, if that's possible23:58
noumeext2 maybe?23:58

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