#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2016-01-21

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Stskeepswell, that's evil: http://lwn.net/Articles/672637/rss05:44
wmarone_yup05:48
lpotterthey never have been about community anyway05:50
wmarone_nope05:51
wmarone_and they were always tone deaf with Zemlin's presentations05:51
wmarone_go to Meego event, talk about Android...05:51
Stskeepsotoh they did get me a free trip to SF to hear the good word about tizen05:53
Stskeeps:P05:53
wmarone_haha05:53
lpotterwmarone_:  I had forgotten about that05:54
Stskeepsmonday mourning with meego05:56
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sharixIs ther something like dbus-send Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei on SfOS?09:33
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chem|stsharix: why not just read it?10:15
chem|stsharix: and what do you need the imei for?10:15
sharixchem|st: don't know how. I'm completele d-bus unaware :-(10:15
chem|stsharix: you do not need dbus to get the imei... you can just read it from /sys10:16
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sharixchem|st: Wanted to chich system get's which IMEI. aliendalvik reads the real one. I'm not amused10:16
sharixs/ chich / check which /10:17
chem|stboth get the one in /sys I guess10:17
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sharixchem|st: I'm looking for a way to control what they read!10:18
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chem|stgood luck with that10:18
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chem|stStskeeps: following LF info/news for a couple of years clearly shows that we need an alternative, it is like a government fed by lobyists10:21
tbrLF was always a bunch of big-corp sock puppets10:23
tbrthe only decent thing is, that they pay Linus and a couple of people10:24
chem|sttbr: while I knew that steering wise, the last couple of years it looks more and more like they smoothen paths to prevent any company but the ones already established from raising in the linux world10:26
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sharixchem|st: Haven't found the tree, find /sys -type f -perm +400 -exec sh -c "/bin/cat {} | grep 547953" \; 2>/dev/null hasn't helped. Do you know the name?11:04
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sharixchem|st: Ok, much simpler, 'find /sys -type f -iname "*imei*"' has helped ;-)11:17
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chem|stsharix: that simple yes ;)11:30
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sharixchem|st: Is there any sysfs tools enabling symlinking?11:42
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chem|stsharix: not my domain11:50
Nicd-tbr: I think this was the funniest thing I've seen related to the linux foundation: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1kv1t4/linux_foundation_suggests_abusing_bitbuckets_free/11:52
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tbrNicd-: well that blog/publishing thing is mostly a load of crap anyway12:15
tbralso as they don't get much content, they keep pushing really outdated write ups through their social media bullhorns12:15
tbrI think I saw some articles announced 3-4 times12:16
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chem|stanyone with osmand installed reading me? what does data storage folder read to you in settings?12:18
SiddeNicd-: not so much linux foundation as the author of that tutorial12:19
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tbrNicd-: LF hired someone new to do that social media and editing job about 1.5 years ago and boy did their quality go down12:30
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mikehgentrychem|ist: /home/nemo/android_storage12:42
mikehgentryon OsmAnd~, which I think I got from FDroid, but it's built from the upstream project so even if it's a slightly different version I reckon that's right.12:43
mikehgentry* chem|st: (sorry. can't type. Not enoguh ccoffe]12:48
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chem|stmikehgentry: ta12:56
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chem|stI am looking into where the extSdCard is...12:57
chem|stI'd guess it be some env variable set to /media/sdcard but it isn't (have to admit I have no idea about androids workings)12:59
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mikehgentryAndroid's filesystem is a total trainwreck, so have fun ;) Afraid I don't really understand what you're looking for, but I do have an actual Android tablet sitting here if it helps and you can clarify.13:01
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chem|stmikehgentry: where the uSD is "provided"13:06
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chem|stjust installed total commander as I knew that this shows like everything, no extSdCard available13:06
chem|stat least not on the phone13:06
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chem|stwill check tablet tonight13:06
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mikehgentryThe thing that's confusing is that there seems to be a concept of a 'virtual sd card' in the Android standard filesystem hierarchy. And there's a total mess of symlinks so lots of things appear in multiple places. But if you mean "where does an actual physical SD card appear on a real Android tablet" I can figure that out pretty easily...13:07
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chem|stmikehgentry: no need, it seems it is not in the changelog13:10
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mikehgentryOK, well it's on /storage/extSdCard on my Samsung Note (Kit Kat). Of course there's no guarantee that's standard (TouchWizz changes a few things fairly deeply compared to upstream, including some SD card handling stuff), but it's a reasonable guess...13:13
chem|stmikehgentry: same for 4.2.2 Gtab 213:14
chem|stit can also be just in /mnt but there is no /mnt on Jolla13:14
chem|stand no /storage of course13:14
chem|stbut if I read it correctly, it is all just settting an env variable13:15
chem|stas we have access to the uSD, just apps that only access SD-Card and extSD-Card or something cannot access it13:15
mikehgentryWell 'printenv' says "SECONDARY_STORAGE=/storage/extSdCard"13:19
mikehgentryAre you just trying to get OsmAnd to use the SD card? Because on ModRana I just symlinked it, though I'm sure you've thought of that...13:26
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chem|stmikehgentry: no I am looking into a bugreport that says uSD not working on android13:33
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mikehgentryOK. Well this is definitely above my knowledge grade, but there are a few other storage related environment variables, so I can report those if it helps...13:34
TeguI don't know but some apps say that you'd need at least android 4.4 in order to use uSD13:34
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chem|stTegu: my android 4.2.2 has ext sd just fine...13:35
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chem|stbut that was samsung.. well can be different with generic android13:36
mikehgentrychem|ist: I believe Samsung deviated from upstream at some point. Google removed app access to SD cards (too confusing for users), Samsung stuck with it. That might be the difference.13:36
chem|stmikehgentry: where do you chroot to to get that printenv?13:37
Teguchem|st: I don't have Android so cannot say. but e.g. Here apparently needs 4.4 to save maps on SD card. not sure13:37
mikehgentryI didn't - I'm just using "Terminal Emulator for Android" by Jack Palevich13:38
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chem|stmikehgentry: installing one now13:42
chem|stmikehgentry: external storage is set to /home/nemo/android_storage13:44
mikehgentryIn case it wasn't clear, that printenv came from my tablet, not Alien Dalvik on my phone.13:48
chem|stmikehgentry: ok13:48
mikehgentryBut I think maybe 'external storage' is the emulated SD card. 'Secondary storage' being the real one. Confused? You will be...13:49
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chem|stmikehgentry: there is no secondary storage14:22
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chem|stsimply not working is the answer at hand atm14:22
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Bysmyyrhttp://yle.fi/uutiset/vilauttiko_nokia_uutta_puhelintaan__mainosvideo_herattaa_epailyn_pikaisesta_paluusta_kannykkamarkkinoille/861388914:33
Bysmyyrsorry in finnish, but use translate14:33
Bysmyyrorigin http://uk.businessinsider.com/nokia-potentially-leaks-c1-smartphone-and-tablet-in-youtube-video-2016-1?r=US&IR=T14:34
stephgwhatever happened to the N114:34
Stskeepsa boring android tablet even without here maps14:35
stephgno I know, I just don't remember hearing much about it after the launch fanfare...14:35
Stskeepsyou mean deafening awkward silence?14:36
Stskeeps:P14:36
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stephgI do believe that's exactly what I mean :D14:37
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Stskeepsrigo: http://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2016/01/21/l-assemblee-vote-la-disposition-pour-un-systeme-d-exploitation-souverain_4851279_4408996.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1453382674 is a bit ambigious, did it get rejected, or not?15:09
TofeStskeeps: it's just a first draft of proposal15:10
Tofevery likely to be rejected even without being read15:11
Tofe(at least the OS part)15:11
Stskeepsmeh, where's the bravery :P15:12
Stskeepsrussia, china, can do it15:12
Stskeeps:P15:12
Tofeoh wait, the article is about sevral things at once -- let me re-read it15:12
chem|ststephg: if Nokia does not present a smartphone on MWC they are a pretty dead company consumer wise15:13
Stskeepschem|st: i hope they have a shred of dignity left and announces something beyond the smartphone15:14
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chem|stbeyond?15:14
Stskeepsyeah15:14
chem|stlike?15:15
Stskeepsthey need to disrupt, not just me-too15:15
Stskeepsi have no idea what they could come up with, that wouldn't be fun15:15
chem|stah yeah sure15:15
TofeStskeeps: ok, the law proposal is about "the government will propose a draft for a national opensource OS", and that has been indeed adopted, to my big surprise15:15
StskeepsTofe: excellent, trips to france15:15
Stskeeps:P15:15
chem|stStskeeps: they need to be like, we have this smartphone with this new linux OS that will shred android and apple into pieces, it is based on Mer and we are looking fwd to work together with SSH and Jolla as manufacturer15:16
chem|st:P15:16
TofeStskeeps: Yes, I was very pessimistic about this vote, and I'm glad it turned out so -- the lobbying was quite intense, it seems15:17
StskeepsTofe: makes you wonder who's behind it15:17
Stskeepsthere's usually no lobbying without companies or projects15:17
Tofeyep15:17
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chem|st"national" is doomed to fail15:17
Stskeepschem|st: it's really ironic when russian and the chinese understand they can't build things on their own but understand the need for independent OS, with country-specific characteristics15:18
chem|stfor a country like france15:18
Stskeepswell, national can make sense at times15:18
Stskeepsi'd just wish the EU would get behind it15:18
TofeMS has done quite a big job there, but APRIL as well (a french association defensing free software, pretty well known here)15:18
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chem|stStskeeps: not for france15:19
StskeepsTofe: hmm, http://www.numerama.com/politique/138290-des-deputes-veulent-un-os-souverain-made-in-france.html15:19
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TofeWell, seems they did a little shortcut here :p15:20
chem|stFrance just pretends to be a major player as it is a huge country but they would line up just behind Greece without EU subsidizing15:20
Stskeepsah, 201015:20
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Tofechem|st: a french OS doesn't make sense anyway, it's not realistic at all. I think they'll write yet another draft proposal, which will quickly be forgotten by the next government.15:24
StskeepsTofe: think ahead 20 years where most of your so-called free speech happens through only american companies' servers and UIs..15:25
Stskeeps:P15:25
Stskeepsit kind of makes sense to some degree but needs a whole lot more crazy15:25
TofeEncouraging free software for administration and public stuff is a good thing though15:25
Tofe(even, a necessary and logical thing to do)15:26
TofeStskeeps: no need to go as far as that, it's almost already the case15:26
chem|stTofe: yes15:27
TofeIt's maybe one of the rare proposals where noone has been demonstrating against, this year :p15:28
chem|stTofe: it is already the case15:28
dr_gogeta86independent isn't maistream nowadays ... or big or besquare ... thanks startus.....15:30
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dr_gogeta86Stskeeps, i hope isn't this ... http://www.androidiani.com/news/nokia-il-nuovo-smartphone-si-mostra-in-alcune-foto-27601515:32
TofeWell, still, apart from this naïve OS thing (just contribute to Debian, guys...), the rest of the proposal is quite good. If it ever has a follow-up.15:33
mikehgentrySeems to fit the bill: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends15:37
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rigoStskeeps: oh, this is just french balderdash to translate into "la grande nation" is not dependent on the US15:52
rigoStskeeps: which is what they need in times of starting election campaigns15:53
StskeepsTofe: yes, :P15:53
ggabrielofc they don't depend on the US, they depend on China, like everyone else :P15:54
rigoso they have been criticized as clueless and do like the dutch and support some real software projects like openssl and stuff15:54
rigoggabriel: jolla with open hardware could work for public procurement :)15:55
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BergkatzeGreetings, everybody.17:08
Stskeepsgreetings17:09
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chem|stStskeeps: seems nokia is going LTE-TV, not really disturbing news17:38
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MikaelaDoes Jolla support passpoint? Together says nothing.19:54
r0kk3rzMikaela: what is passpoint?19:55
Stskeepssame question19:56
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sjnhttp://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-certified-passpoint # Passpoint?19:59
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MikaelaWhat sjn said20:02
Stskeepsmm i guess not20:03
MikaelaI will open a thread then20:07
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Mikaelahttps://together.jolla.com/question/127350/support-wi-fi-certified-passport/20:11
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tbrtypo. passpoint, not passport?20:14
Mikaelayes, fixed20:14
pdanekguys20:16
pdanekwhat's better, to live near London or near Bormingham?20:16
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pdanekin terms of options20:16
pdanekBirmingham*20:16
pdanekBir. would be cheaper, but I guess much less to do than in London?20:16
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ramsesHD-Bormingham sounds boring. ;-)20:18
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mikehgentryOne thing you've got to consider with London is time spent commuting / travelling. It can eat your free time so much you don't end up doing all the things you thought you'd do. I know people who live on opposite sides of London and barely see each other, though they'd like to.20:21
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rigolondon is awfully expensive.20:26
rigoI lived on the french riviera. People where flying in from there to London cause it was cheaper20:26
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rigobut if you're alone and want to live on 9sqm, London is more interesting20:27
DrainBamaged1Birmingham has a lot going for it20:27
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DrainBamaged1Used to be a concrete jungle, but they sorted that20:28
DrainBamaged1Personally I'da be up Birmingham faster than I would be London area20:28
DrainBamaged1And as rigo says, London is just so expensive20:28
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nh1402but London has the Crystal Maze20:35
DrainBamagedYou mean palace, surely?20:36
nh1402nope, Crystal Maze20:36
chem|stDrainBamaged: while birmingham is nice, not living in the UK is even nicer20:36
rigo! :)20:36
merbot`rigo: Error: ":)" is not a valid command.20:36
rigounfortunately20:37
nh1402https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrDUdOgpNsI20:37
DrainBamagedI've only ever lived here20:37
rigoshould I try #!/bin/bash now?20:37
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DrainBamagedGosh, I've not seen that since I was a child20:38
DrainBamagedThat is still _on_?20:38
chem|stpdanek: if those are the only options, I'd go for birmingham20:38
DrainBamagedWow...20:38
nh1402it's not still on20:39
DrainBamagedSo a random comeback?20:39
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nh1402some of the guys behind it, started a crowd funding campaign to recreate it somewhere in London for people to go and actually go do the puzzles and stuff20:40
nh1402the funding target was met, and I think it might either be opening later this year, if it hasn't opened already20:40
mikehgentryScrew that, I want in-real-life Knightmare :)20:41
DrainBamagedWell, fair enough. I'd forgotten all about the show to be honest20:41
DrainBamagedAll came flooding back when you showed me the Youtube link...20:42
nh1402I'm assuming you're on the website booking tickets20:42
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DrainBamagedYou would assume incorrectly20:42
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r0kk3rzin aus we had a similar thing called a*mazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYPgVQCClwc20:45
r0kk3rznot sure we ever got the crystal maze20:45
nh1402ah 15 seconds in and I now hate that show20:47
pdanekDrainBamaged: by asking that, I didn't mean money20:47
nh1402particularly of the word said at the 15 second mark20:47
pdanekobviously the money I would get in London would be higher20:47
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pdanekjust asking for city comparison20:47
nh1402do you plan to live in or near London20:48
r0kk3rznh1402: sorry, we call a different thing football in aus20:48
r0kk3rzpdanek: would need to be a lot higher, london is very expensive, and you dont get much for it20:49
nh1402what do you call "football" in Australia?20:49
r0kk3rznh1402: australian rules football, of course20:50
r0kk3rzwe have our own20:50
pdanekr0kk3rz: £1500 more per month is enough?20:50
r0kk3rzalthough we abbreviate it to 'footy', because y'know, australia20:50
pdanekto make the living standard same as Birmingham20:50
Pebbyr0kk3rz: is this more like... american football or spanish football?20:50
pdanek1500 after tax20:51
nh1402and if you plan to live outside London, you should also consider the travel time to and from London to work, and then £3,500 a year for a season ticket20:51
r0kk3rzpdanek: is that extra? not sure what brummyland is like but in london that will get you a room in a share house20:51
pdanekextra yes20:52
pdanekversus birmingham20:52
r0kk3rzPebby: not sure about spanish football, but its not really like american football20:53
r0kk3rzPebby: most similar to gaelic football if anything20:53
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r0kk3rzpdanek: might end up more or less equivalent tbh, im not a londoner so I cant really comment so much20:54
r0kk3rzjust a lot of my friends are, and tell me what things cost20:54
nh1402speaking of moving around, how long does it take to get to your respective workplaces?, takes me about 15 minutes.20:55
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r0kk3rzcost isnt the only thing, is the job a good one? and do you want to live in london for another reason?20:56
Pebbyr0kk3rz: well I learned something today that lead to some time on wikipedia, thanks. :)20:57
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r0kk3rzPebby: its a brutal game played by overpaid bogans, but its footy20:58
nh1402r0kk3rz: but they are holding the ball, a lot20:58
Pebbyr0kk3rz: speaking as an American, I am used to those words20:58
r0kk3rzPebby: yes i imagine you are :)20:59
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Pebbyyes, we must pay them so much because I would not want to suffer massive head injuries20:59
Pebbyour money is paying them to do it for our amusement20:59
r0kk3rzfwiw a great many australian rugby players go over to the US to play your football, because of the big dollars21:00
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Pebbythat's the american way... bigger is better!21:01
nh1402don't they have a world series that's only played in that same one country?21:02
r0kk3rzworld series baseball!21:02
Pebbyof course.. the world is invited to join our great nation at any point the world wishes21:02
r0kk3rzPebby: are the japanese included in the world series? they love them some baseball21:02
Pebbyconsider it our humble invitation. It's all we know besides sending weapons and soldiers to your country. We are somewhat simplistic.21:03
nh1402Formula 1 is a world series21:03
mikehgentrySnooker feels pretty provincial sometimes...21:03
Pebbyr0kk3rz: I'm sure we could use another state in our United States.. Japan can join, they just need to fix the flag for us.21:03
nh1402races all over the world, people coming from all over the world to the different races to watch it21:03
r0kk3rznh1402: agreed, same with motogp and wsbk21:04
Pebbywe are pretty good at naming the beauty pageants too... miss america, miss universe (I've yet to see a competitor from mars but, well, they're invited)21:05
r0kk3rzmiss solar system doesnt have quite the same ring to it21:06
r0kk3rzdo they ever have contestants that are married? so it would be Mrs Universe21:07
Pebbythey must.. we really need to fix some of our semantic errors or else a married person could never win21:08
Pebbyalthough I believe miss is technically inclusive of married folk (i.e. when addressing someone, miss is the blanket term)21:09
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louisdkI can't install this patch on 2.0.1.7: https://openrepos.net/content/virgi/patch-three-fingers-volume-control - See newest comment on page.22:03
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chem|stlol22:51
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cehtehyeah he left .. but the other sound-control patch works and adds the 3 finger gesture23:00
cehtehcall recorder doesnt work anymore since 2.0.123:00
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HtheBcoderus: will you update the launcher patch?23:01
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M-bobsummerwillRE:   World Series includes the Toronto Blue Jays, who are the single Canadian team in with all the American ones.   So it is at least technically International.   Ahem.23:08
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chem|stM-bobsummerwill: wohoo can wear my '92 Js tshirt watching them23:39
chem|stcehteh: early-access is also for devs to catch up with changes until release...23:40
cehtehyep sure23:45
cehtehmost things work, quite some things fixed, and i feel like they do even better power management now23:46
cehtehbut thats just a feel, i havent logged it23:46
cehtehfinally android can use the sdcard .. but i just moved all stuff to the card 1 week ago using your 'receipe' ... haha23:47
cehtehnot going to reformat that again23:47
cehteh(while encrypted f2fs maybe someday)23:48
chem|stthe uSD extSdCard export is not yet available but uSD is bindmounted yes23:51
chem|stand that external SD and my poison are two different things app-data that you cannot cahnge location for will always be in /data/media23:52
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