#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2016-03-22

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mornfall500dpi is complete fubar00:10
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the_mgtI'd rather see more competition on the "smart" aspect of smartphones than purely technological pissing contests00:18
mornfallwell, a 500ppi display is anti-technology, the only difference it delivers is reduced battery life00:18
mornfallwell, unless you want to seriously use it for cardboard VR I guess :-)00:19
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the_mgtI am not convinced that this VR hype is more solid than the 3d hype in cinemas and television or gaming00:20
mornfallprobably no, and cardboard with a phone is not really a viable platform either way :)00:20
mornfallon the other hand, aren't android phones routinely around 500ppi these days?00:21
the_mgtif these personal devices are tracking my data 24/7, why can't they better adapt to my behavior/needs. that's where i want to see progress00:21
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mornfallyeah, it's amazing how the smartphone still doesn't have a "remind me when I get home" knob00:23
Yanielhasn't the iphone had that for years00:24
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mornfallindeed, since iphone 4 it seems00:27
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Yanielbasically since siri00:29
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mornfallyeah, but siri is history now isn't it?00:29
Yanielhuh?00:30
mornfallI'd be also curious to know if the reminders work without GPS...00:30
Yaniellast I saw siri was on the livestream form apple's pr event today00:31
the_mgtgps can be replaced with wifi00:31
Yanielit's a big thing on the apple tv it seems00:31
the_mgtmy macbook knows where i am surprisingly well. frighteningly well...00:31
mornfallthe_mgt: as in, the phone does that by itself? or you mean possible in principle?00:31
mornfallah, that's good then :-)00:32
mornfallsailfish is pretty clueless in this respect :|00:32
the_mgtin principle and in practice. apple seems to pay the same guys as google for "wifi to gps" mapping00:32
mornfallwifi to location you mean :)00:32
the_mgtyes00:33
mornfallso I guess apple *is* getting things right, more or less00:33
mornfallit's just the walled garden thing00:33
the_mgtthat depends on your point of view00:33
Yanielfrom a convenience point of view, yes they are doing a lot of things damn well00:34
the_mgtit frightens me a bit, how well people know where certain wifi aps are positioned00:34
Yaniel(user convenience)00:34
mornfallthe_mgt: it's public knowledge, anyone with a car and a lot of patience (and some fairly inexpensive gear) can make a map00:34
the_mgtlike, at the university, all ap's broadcast the eduroam ssid. but my macbook knows in whicih building i am00:35
mornfallbecause the maps are based on BSSIDs00:35
the_mgti know00:35
the_mgtI guess iphone and android users are mapping for free for the companies00:35
mornfallthat too00:35
mornfallbut this is the type of data that benefits everyone and hurts noone00:36
mornfallwell, unless you used to make a living by selling that data at a premium I gues :P00:36
mornfallguess*00:36
the_mgtor until somebody finds out where you live just because they know your most favoured wifi00:37
the_mgtin windows10, there is some setting that lets "people in your contact list/vincinity know about your wireless settings". i have no clue what it is in detail, but it is enabled by default00:38
mornfalland they learn that how?00:38
the_mgti guess it should make it easier to let your friends use your wifi00:38
Yanielthe description was "share your wifi passwords with friends on social media"00:38
the_mgtthey could find/steal/lookup/hack your phone, mornfall.00:39
YanielIIRC00:39
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mornfallthe_mgt: right, and if they do that, the obvious way to find where you live is look at which wifi you use and look at a wifi map :-)00:39
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the_mgt"ah, look, i hacked a random guy in germany, he is locked in to wifi xyc. let me browse the wifi2location database"00:39
Yanieldoes one have access to wifi stuffs via javascript in the browser?00:39
mornfall(as opposed to asking the phone where it is)00:40
Yanielbecause then all you need is a bit of XSS on reddit or wherever00:40
mornfallthe browser, again, has a direct API for asking where you are00:40
the_mgtmornfall: not just phones, any wifi enabled device. some people even switch off gps for battery saving reasons00:41
Yanielbut the user can deny the browser that request00:41
Yanielwhereas denying it access to wifi is difficult00:41
the_mgtright00:41
Yanielalso usually you are prompted about gps access00:41
Yanielnot so with wifi00:42
mornfallalso, ever heard of geoip? :)00:42
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the_mgtare you trolling or what?00:42
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the_mgtgeoip locates me in the hannover area. that is a bit wider area than the actual street and housenumber00:43
Yanielmaybe there should be separate network and network-meta access00:43
mornfallyou are proposing elaborate schemes to steal location data in scenarios where it's readily available00:43
the_mgtit even shows where in the house i am, it is that acurate00:43
the_mgtno, you are mentioning data that could be turned of or be denied or is too vague. while the thing you use to connect to the internet gives you a position which is acurate at a range of about 10-50m00:45
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mornfallif someone hacks your phone, they can get your location data even if the bssid->location database is top secret00:46
the_mgtif you are paranoid enough, you could configure your ap to change mac adress/ssid/bssid on a daily basis00:46
the_mgtphone, notebook, fridge, gaming console. they all connect to wifi. but go ahead, keep being smug00:47
Yanielwhat would even qualify as "hacking your phone"00:49
Yanielwriting an app that phones home and trick the user into installing it?00:49
Yanielexploiting a XSS vulnerability in some website to get what you want from the web browser without the user ever noticing anything?00:50
mornfalldepends on the permissions it can get, I guess00:50
mornfallXSS is not quite enough (it can get your IP address, but wifi settings are probably about the same as location data... if they can get them, there'll be a prompt)00:51
YanielI mean on android you can just send them a properly crafted MMS00:51
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YanielI do hope so but am not sure00:51
mornfallof course, an IP address can get you a long way if you sit on a database (public geoip services suck, but that doesn't mean that's the best it can do)00:51
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mornfallone breach at comcast or att and you have a map right down to the apartment number00:52
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mornfallfor a very sizable chunk of population00:53
mornfallit's even easier with institutions, they'll probably tell you right in the PTR record :-)00:54
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mornfallso if you are paranoid, you should be using tor and blocking web-based trackers instead of worrying about the bssid of the connected AP leaking and divulging your location00:57
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the_mgtthe thing is, the more you shield your internet usage/browser, the more unique it becomes. the easier it is to track. if you are paranoid, you should probably ask a friend to mail you a printout01:05
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nick2000hello.12:33
nick2000i'm having problems charging my jolla.12:33
r0kk3rznick2000: you're probably better off opening a jolla zendesk ticket12:34
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nick2000..where12:36
SQUelchersee topic12:37
nick2000i found the site, but where i do "opening a jolla zendesk ticket"?12:38
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r0kk3rznick2000: top right?12:40
nick2000found it!12:40
nick2000-12:42
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EyeAJolla14:34
EyeA)0!1@14:34
EyeA)0h14:34
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HtheBguys, how can I enable exFAT support on Jolla?16:02
HtheBI've already installed some packages that are available on openrepos, but I couldn't get it to work somehow?16:02
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the_mgtlast thing I read is, exfat-nofuse is broken on the latest early testers update, HtheB16:04
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HtheBthe_mgt: neh, got it working now16:08
HtheBhad to make a label16:08
HtheBanother question though:L16:08
HtheBis there a way to store the pictures on the SD Card?16:08
HtheBI couln't find this :/16:08
coderusцрфе нщг ьут ЭыещкуЭ,16:09
coderuspfff16:09
coderuswht you men "store"?16:09
HtheBsave it when taking a picture16:09
HtheBinto SD Card instead of internal16:10
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phlixi_owell, i have no clue, but i guess things that could work could be making the folder where the pictes get saved a link to a folder on the sd card, or mounting the sdcard into the folder where the picures get saved...16:14
phlixi_o...not sure whether those a good ideas, not if this is possible with fat16:14
HtheBwhy isn't such a 'default' function not available on the phone? :/16:16
HtheBMy old Nokia 6230 could do this...16:16
the_mgtbecause you have to ensure, that it always works?16:16
the_mgtor else the users will hate you16:16
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coderusHtheB: because of trillion supported (possibly) filesystems, not just fat16:17
the_mgtthe camera of my son is not able to really reliably store pictures on the sdcard... and that is a Nikon16:17
phlixi_oHtheB: as with 1000 other "standard features" even the standard things need time to implement...16:18
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HtheBok, I do hope that it will be available later on though :(16:18
HtheBany idea how I can add a directory to the tracker?16:18
HtheBAll I can see is to EXCLUDE, but not INCLUDE16:18
coderusHtheB: tracker...16:18
phlixi_othis is what i always refer to when isay ios/android are more mature, al those little standard features are missing in jolla :(16:18
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the_mgtphlixi_o: ios possibly skipped the sdcard thing entirely in order to avoid being called unreliable16:19
HtheBcoderus: I want to show the pictures on the gallery that I've receveid from WhatsApp16:19
phlixi_oHtheB: if sailfish in a far away fure gets two figures percent marketshare, they will add those standard features... until then, i bet they will all never will be implemented, there is always 100 more pressing things16:19
the_mgtand nobody expected android to use sdcards reliably in the beginning, i'd say16:20
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phlixi_othe_mgt i wont argue about that. besides that, there are 100 other things where this applies. and for sdcards, its a design desicion not to have sdcards on apple, not a lack of resources to implement it16:21
the_mgtHtheB: you have to wait for tracker to index them? dunno if it searches in android vm, though16:22
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HtheBthe_mgt tracker looks only at android_storage/Pictures16:22
phlixi_ofor me tracker seems to take everythign where i not explicitly say it shouldnt16:22
the_mgtphlixi_o: yep, but it is also a design decision to only support things that you think work reliably. my last nokia phone refused to accept cheap 32gb cards16:23
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coderusthe_mgt: "android vm" folder is /home/nemo/android_storage16:24
phlixi_oits not a design decision to not support savong pictures to sd on jolla. ots lack of resources to implement stuff16:24
phlixi_oas with everything16:24
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HtheBphlixi_o: I guess so :(16:24
coderusphlixi_o: i ope new peoples will start helping with features soon :)16:24
coderushope*16:25
HtheBcoderus: any idea how I can edit the tracker locations?16:25
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coderussoon sailfish will be better :)16:25
coderusHtheB: not me, sorry16:25
HtheBanyone else?16:25
phlixi_othe point i wanted to make, do not wait for that to change, if that would work, then the highsted voted thing would be implemented by now (copy&paste in browser) for example16:25
HtheBcoderus' patch works, so I dont know why they still haven't added that into the browser though16:26
r0kk3rzcoderus: that remains to be seen, who knows how many people will contribute if sfos is open source16:26
coderusphlixi_o: fire your designers and get 10 new ones :D16:26
phlixi_oput a file called ".nomedia" in the folder16:26
coderusHtheB: things changed in 2.0 and there is no more same way to do text selection16:26
HtheBphlixi_o, thats to EXCLUDE :)16:26
HtheBi want to INCLUDE16:26
phlixi_oeverything else should beincluded16:26
coderusand i'm not using most of sailfish native stuff, using android apps instead16:26
HtheBnot at all...16:26
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HtheBphlixi_o: Whatsapp media are NOT included16:29
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HtheBlike I said, only some default folders, like Pictures, Downloads, and so on, are tracked16:29
r0kk3rzthe sdcard is indexed at least16:31
LiekeHtheB: https://together.jolla.com/question/5935/how-to-blacklist-directories-from-being-indexed-by-tracker/?answer=56730#post-id-56730 like this?16:32
HtheBisn't that blacklisting?16:32
Liekelook at the linked answer16:32
HtheBoh16:32
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HtheBLieke: Or add directory to be indexed recursively << what does this mean16:32
Liekethat the directory including subdirectories will be indexed16:33
HtheBah16:33
HtheBhttps://openrepos.net/content/virgi/patch-tracker-path-settings16:33
phlixi_o# gsettings set org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-single-directories "['$HOME', '/my/other/directory']"16:33
HtheBseems like there is a patch for that16:33
HtheBJolla should TM that line....16:34
HtheB"There is a patch for that"16:34
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HtheBThis describes Sailfish OS https://i.imgflip.com/qm0g0.jpg16:34
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HtheBugh, seems like the patch does not work :(16:41
fennekkihumm16:41
HtheBPatch shows 3 options, pressing on the options does not do anything :(16:47
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HtheBf*ck, now nothing is shown anymore in my gallery at all :(16:54
HtheBany way to reset everythign back to default without factory reset?16:54
HtheB:(17:01
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r0kk3rzHtheB: go read tracker documentation and find out where its config lives17:36
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cehtehdoh .. my jolla doesnt connect/register to the mobile network anymore, rebooted 2 times still nothing18:40
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StskeepsSIM slot issue or network issue?18:44
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cehtehreinserted the sim, rebooted .. nothing18:49
Stskeeps /system/bin/logcat -b radio ?18:50
cehtehmy wife has the same telephone company, her phone is connected18:50
cehtehmoment i try18:50
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cehtehwhat should that report?18:52
cehteh /system/bin/logcat -b radio  ?18:52
cehtehno output, hanging/waiting here18:52
Stskeepsas root?18:52
cehtehno user :D18:52
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cehtehok reports a lot ...18:56
cehtehwhat shall i look for?18:57
Stskeepsdunno, but airplane mode on/off should be a good starting point18:57
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cehtehthat fixed it .. wtf (i mean airplane mode was off, i had to turn it on and off ... then it reconnected)18:58
cehtehwtf bug is that :D18:59
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Stskeepsnetworks are really crazy creatures18:59
cehtehbut it kept some state over reboots19:00
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HtheBIs it possible for the Android apps to see the microSD card?19:42
the_mgtthere is a howto on tjc, afaik19:43
HtheBI've seen one, but it needs to mount after every reboot19:44
HtheBI can't ask my dad to do that :P19:44
HtheBafter every reboot19:44
HtheBsome automatic process would be nice though19:44
coderus"to see" no19:45
coderusyou cn reformat sdcard and mount android to it19:45
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HtheBcoderus: hmmm re-format into?19:45
coderusand it will store /data on sdcard, but not /sdcard itself19:45
coderusHtheB: read tjc19:45
HtheBbut would that be seen as external_sd?19:46
coderusno19:49
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HtheBok, and that is what I want19:50
HtheBsome Android apps can store stuff to External SD19:51
HtheBbut if it's not visible...19:51
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phlixiHtheB as i understand it acts like internal space20:00
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phlixiHtheB: https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/20:00
phlixibut if you plan to remove the sd card often and read it with cardreadrer on windows etc... then i dont think ithis is a good idea20:01
phlixi(what other reason might you have had to ask using exfat earlier^^)20:01
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HtheBphlixi: yeah20:33
phlixii highly recommend remote accessing (e.g. via wlan) instead of fiddling with the card all the time, but hey, do what you want :D20:33
coderusbuy second sdcard or whatever20:38
coderuswhy the hell you want to eject sdcard from phone?20:38
phlixiinstead one shoul glue them in to prevent the card slipping out accidentially :D20:39
phlixithe arguemnt usuall is "i want to copy one gazillion files on it, and thats super duper mega fast on my pc, but endlessly slow via wlan20:44
coderusonce a month, so you cn just shut down your phone while doing that20:46
phlixistill stupid imho^^20:47
HtheBOk20:50
HtheBI've done a symlink for the Camera20:50
HtheBworks fine20:50
phlixi:)20:50
HtheBI wanted to do the same for WhatsApp20:50
HtheBbut I get the follwoing error:20:50
HtheBln: creating symbolic link `/home/nemo/android_storage/WhatsApp': Function not implemented20:50
HtheBandroid_storage is fat32 I assume20:51
HtheBis it possible to symlink it somehow?20:51
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masquemaybe a bind mount could work21:02
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HtheBmasque: bind mount?21:11
masquehttps://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/198590/what-is-a-bind-mount21:11
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masquehttps://serverfault.com/questions/613179/how-do-i-do-mount-bind-in-etc-fstab21:13
HtheBmount -o bind /some/where /else/where21:13
HtheBsomething like that?21:14
masqueI don't know if changes in /etc/fstab will survive after a reboot21:14
HtheBaha21:14
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masquemount --bind /bind/this /to/that should do21:15
HtheBlet me tell you the use case21:15
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HtheBand if this bind method would actually be usefull for me or not21:15
masque(I don't know bout fstab, because I never tried it with my jolla)21:16
HtheBI want to move WhatsApp folder to the external SDcard, so every pic/video that I receive will directly be on my microDS21:16
HtheBmicroSD*21:16
phlixiand whats the point of having the stuff on the card?21:17
HtheB....21:17
HtheBto not have it on my phone and fill it's space?21:17
phlixithats what the space is there for, to fill it21:17
masquejust try it. it could work.21:17
HtheBphlixi: stop trollin21:18
Liekei don't think the btrfs on the jolla is meant to be filled :P21:18
phlixii am not trolling21:18
masquefirst try with the command and if it works, try to make it permanent in fstab21:18
HtheBif I dont want the pictures to be saved on my phone, then there is no reason that it should stay there21:18
HtheBWhen I remove the card, i dont want to have any pics on the phone left ;)21:18
HtheBmasque: ok21:19
phlixii still think its silly, to think of the sd card as something like a floppy...21:19
HtheBmasque: does the WhatsApp folder to be exist?21:19
HtheBphlixi: thats your opinion then21:19
HtheBwait and see if you want to move to something else, or something happened to your phone21:20
HtheBand you've loose everything21:20
HtheBthen you'll be reminding this conversation :)21:20
phlixithats what backups are for, the sdcard is not a backup, if you screw your system, chances are that stuff on your card is gone also21:20
phlixiagain, its not a floppy21:21
phlixi^^21:21
HtheB if you screw your system, chances are that stuff on your card is gone also <<< errr what?21:21
phlixisee above link i posted for "share space with android"21:21
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phlixii just wanted to understand the motivation of having the stuff on the card. i told you its useless, if you insist that this is a good idea, go ahead...21:22
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HtheBitll be useless if fckn jolla was more then 16GB21:22
masqueyou should first copy your folder to the destination directory on the sdcard, then try to mount the destination directory over the original folder. in that way the original content is not yet overwritten nor deleted. if it works, try with fstab. if it works also after a reboot (which I don't know... maybe it could not work because the sdcard takes some seconds to be mounted), you could unmount the bind,21:23
phlixi[2016-03-22 21:00:35] <phlixi> HtheB: https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/21:23
masquedelete the original content and then mount the bind again21:23
masquejust... be careful :)21:23
phlixi...thats how you make it behave as not like 16gb,21:23
HtheBmasque: alright21:23
phlixiits stop thinking of it like a flopyy, instead you share the space21:23
HtheBI rather think it's a removable media ;)21:24
phlixiwell, go ahead... have fun21:24
HtheBthanks21:24
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HtheBmasque: ok, so now I've done the command21:28
HtheBmasque: ok, it works...21:31
HtheBBUT21:31
HtheBit has now on both places21:31
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masqueyou can access it from both path, but the data is loaded only from one place21:34
masqueis kind of like a link21:35
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HtheBok21:37
phliximasque you should repost the link to stackoverflow again, it wasnt read...21:37
HtheBseems to work great then21:37
phlixiits literally the first line there21:37
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dv_hi. I have the impression that there are connectivity problems with the jolla phone. I have been told by various people that sometimes, instant messaging does not seem to work well with my phone21:58
dv_in whatsapp, people tell me i dont seem to receive the message sometimes. in sailorgram, I sometimes am not informed of messages that I actually received21:59
dv_about the only thing that really runs reliably are SMS21:59
dv_in the whatsapp case, restarting android helps. in the sailorgram case, I have to restart the phone. is there a way to force the phone to keep connections open?22:01
Raimdid you allow WhatsApp to run in the background?22:01
Raimalso, in general, there are still no push notifications on SailfishOS22:02
HtheBmasque: I've got a question22:03
HtheBhow can I add it to the fstab?22:03
HtheBbecause there are 2 things that I came across thanks to CepiPerez22:03
dv_Raim: I think so. I noticed that sometimes I do get whatsapp messages, but only very late. also, whatsapp behaves nicely just after I restarted android.22:03
HtheBfirst one: android_storage needs to be mounted first22:03
Raimdv_: see https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203442828#422:03
HtheBsecond: SD Card needs to be mounted as well...22:04
dv_Raim: if however I keep it running, and after half an hour or so, I for example try to look at the profile pictures of the contacts, I've noticed that it never refreshes to the high-res picture22:04
dv_s/refreshes/changes/22:04
dv_Raim: yeah, they are enabled. it seems these things are still buggy. its latest whatsapp from aptoide btw.22:06
masqueHtheB: these are specific to jolla, so I can't answer it because I didn't try it yet on my own22:07
masqueyou can add it to fstab using an editor (vi, nano or whatever) as root. or appending it with an echo "your string to append" >> your_file ... just remember that if you do something wrong to your fstab, you could end with a system unable to boot!22:10
masqueso... think about it very carefully and be prepared to the worst22:11
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HtheBmasque: im trying to add the "mount --bind /media/sdcard/0123-4567/WhatsApp /data/media/WhatsApp" into a file23:07
HtheBbut i dont know which file is the best way to do so23:07
HtheB(when booting the phone or starting dalvik after a stop)23:08
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masqueyou could try to create a systemd service unit that starts after the ssd is mounted and before aliendalvik.service is loaded23:12
masqueif you have a pc with a linux distro with systemd as init, you could do some experiments23:13
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M4rtinKor just pin up a VM with a systemd using distro23:25
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