#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2016-03-31

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Guest63653reset ended up with sfos v 2.0.0.10, all apps were there, photos also, only contacts, messages, native accounts were missing.. android was untouched... all works so .. seems okay for me05:13
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Pawky"And then when the N9 died, #harmattan fell silent, luckily #jollamobile, the new chat in town was there to take over, and everybody chatted at their best.... Nowadays, its getting just as silent as the other... is this a sign?" :-/11:42
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Armadilloas long as there are no new devices available, yes...11:46
TofePawky: well, we have no idea is being worked on anyway, and most of the problem discussions end up with "it's already logged in TJC since a year", so, yes, it's silent.11:47
Tofe+what11:47
pp_¨´11:48
Pawkyisnt there anything to leak what so ever, in classic apple style?11:50
Armadillothe soon(TM) thing all of us heard at least a thousand times?11:52
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TofeMost of the interesting news lately was on the community ports, afaik11:53
Pawkyconsidering?11:54
TofeFairphone2, for instance11:54
PawkyBut i cannot imagine, jolla will start to sell another company's hardware, right?11:55
r0kk3rzjolla wont sell any hardware anymore11:55
Sailorthey sell only the OS11:56
ggabrielyup, jolla mobile is set to sell hw11:56
Pawkyis that official?11:56
ggabrielthey only need investors11:56
ggabrielPawky: check the press releases..11:56
Pawkywell, i know about these... not that they stopped for sure though11:56
Armadillowell the splitted into a software and a hardware division11:56
r0kk3rzggabriel: im sure their 'hw division' is quietly killed11:56
Armadillobut the hardware division seems to be wuite dead11:56
Armadillo*quite11:56
PawkyThen there is no jolla anymore...11:57
ggabrielr0kk3rz: well, it's all about money... give them a few millions and a hw division will appear11:57
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ggabrielPawky: huh? who do you think has been making sfos all this time?11:57
Pawkyit just another tizen, neomobile lalala os...11:57
r0kk3rzggabriel: few millions? nah maybe few 100 millions11:57
ggabrielr0kk3rz: sure, depending how far you want to go competing11:58
r0kk3rzeven then i expect not11:58
r0kk3rzos licensing is the game plan, so we will see how that works out11:58
PawkyTo my knowledge no other phone maker has jumped the bandwagon to use Sailfish OS, though many has been "interested"...11:58
TofeI don't understand why they don't push hard for an official association with Fairphone, to sell official SW support + dalvik.11:58
ggabrielPawky: intex?11:59
Pawkyr0kk3rz: I assume just as all the others..11:59
PawkyThey need hardware to push as well.. even though it might be OEM..11:59
r0kk3rzTofe: theres no need to 'push hard', both companies are interested in that idea11:59
Pawkydoes Intex also have the dalvik part?12:00
ggabrielPawky: yup12:00
ggabrielto my knowledge, it's the first official licensee12:00
r0kk3rzPawky: look up the intex aqua fish, proper sailfish phone out of the box12:00
Pawkyhow many sold? :-)12:00
r0kk3rznone yet12:00
ggabrieland the market target is very different to EU I'm afraid12:00
ggabrielEU has proven to not be interested enough, so it's only logical they'll go and find luck elsewhere12:01
Tofer0kk3rz: "push hard" in the sense of "make it happen before the device reaches EOL"12:01
PawkySo, they go Nokia and want to get a big market shares in the developing countries etc?12:01
ggabrielhaving said that, there is hope with fairphone and maybe this other security phone12:01
r0kk3rzTofe: the FP2 is intended to have a lifespan of 5 years, still a long way off EOL12:02
Sailortouringphone12:02
ggabrielPawky: any better ideas? you have money you are interested to invest? :)12:02
Sailorbut it's also a silent thing at the moment12:02
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ggabrielSailor: thanks12:02
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PawkySailor: Yes I have ideas, I wouldnt invest in the current company though..12:03
Tofer0kk3rz: yes, but people and medias are talking about it these months; in 2017 it will just be something some geeks like us remember, nothing more12:03
ggabrielPawky: then you get no phone :)12:03
SailorPawky: same here, that's why I also wanted my money for the tablet back ... If they would communicate more what they are doing. Or trying to achieve. They could have kept my money.12:03
PawkyI do bleive Jollas fan base is something to cherrish..12:03
r0kk3rzTofe: i expect we will see it in maybe 3-6 months, or not at all12:04
PawkySailor: very true indeed12:04
ggabrielPawky: really? I think the fanbase is there because there are no other options out there12:04
PawkyI even thought about just bying another jolla phone for it... but then again.. its getting aged..12:04
ggabrielbut otoh, if we could have a lot of other options, the situation would be drastically different12:04
Pawkyggabriel: Thats not true..12:04
ggabrielwhat would you buy? I'm very unhappy with ios/android12:05
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r0kk3rzid probably get an ubuntu phone12:05
Pawkyggabriel: Well.. of course there isnt much to buy... but there are alternatives..12:05
ggabrielr0kk3rz: ok, so suppose there is ubuntu, what else is out there?12:05
eugeniowindows phone12:05
ggabrielPawky: I'm waiting to hear those alternatives12:05
eugenio:)12:06
ggabrieleugenio: :)12:06
r0kk3rzggabriel: how many alternatives do you need?12:06
ggabrielnever tried it, so can't say much, but doesn't come with a terminal :P12:06
Pawkyin the end, there is always an option to create ones own android derivative... done right12:06
ggabrielr0kk3rz: to have a healthier/more standards driven market? suppose 10 options?12:06
ggabrielor maybe 20?12:06
the_mgtyou do not even have 20 options on desktop market...12:07
ggabrielmore or less evenly distributed too, not 99% market to 2 leaders and 18 others trying to survive12:07
r0kk3rzggabriel: then you also have plasma mobile, luneos, nemomobile12:07
Pawkywell.. If i am not wrong, one could get Salfish running on other hardware, right?12:07
r0kk3rzggabriel: asteroidos if you include smartwatches12:07
ggabrielthe_mgt: yeah, desktop is not very healthy either12:07
PawkyThere are a few.. but as I wrote, not something to swap ones Jolla for..12:08
the_mgtggabriel: I mean you have like aleph0 different linux distros, but that does not imply quality12:08
PawkyJolla really has to get a grip around their fan base, before its to late.12:08
r0kk3rzPawky: what fan base? its gone already12:08
ggabrielthe_mgt: I get your point, however, the desktop market is better at following certain standards than the embedded device market12:09
Pawkyr0kk3rz: No, i do not believe so12:09
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Sailorhttps://www.facebook.com/turingroboticindustries/?fref=ts12:09
ggabrieltbh, if my jolla breaks, I'd buy another jolla :P12:09
Sailorseems to be delayed12:09
ggabrielbut no other phone has hw kbd and my jolla does, so that's a massive reason to stay with it as I use it extensively12:10
r0kk3rzSailor: no really, wow such surprise :P12:10
Sailor:D12:10
Sailor*wait for the announcement in April*12:10
the_mgtggabriel: hm, maybe. I think the real problem is drivers/kernel modules. for every OS. seems to be still rather cumbersome to write some, if there were more modules for the main linux kernel, adopting distros for phones would follow12:10
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Pawkyhmm... that Intex Aqua Fish looks interesting :-D12:10
Stskeepsit's a lovely device12:11
Pawkybut, hey... LOOK... I got the chat chatting again :-D12:11
ggabrielthe_mgt: true, but it gets worse... if you want to write a brand new OS, some things should follow certain standards. I heard ACPI is a mess on desktop and so on. open drivers help porting12:11
Pawkyso, we fans are here... you see :-)12:11
r0kk3rzPawky: yep all 5 of us12:11
PawkyLOL12:11
ggabrielPawky: well, I'm just a customer really ;) I like sfos12:11
the_mgtggabriel: I guess most OS/distros are good at hiding the crappiness of hardware. windows really shines there, that is why they took over12:12
SailorI really like the OS and I would support Jolla. If they would talk to us ...12:12
Pawkyso.. whatever open source OS ever trying to win the phone market, will die due to proprietary issues?... :-(12:13
ggabrielPawky: hopefully not thanks to libhybris12:13
Pawkyhow mature is libhybris?12:14
ggabrielthe jolla phone and the tablet run thanks to it. is that mature enough?12:15
ggabrielmore than gmail, at any rate12:15
ggabrielbut then gmail is alpha :P12:15
Pawkyyes, i presume it is..12:16
Pawkybut.. for chirst sake, its just for jolla to take intex phones, rebrand them Jolla and start selling in Europe with sailfish os.. :-)12:16
Armadilloin the comments on facebook Touringphone btw. mentioned May as a possible release date12:17
ggabrielPawky: you are very enthusiastic but you don't seem to appreciate how complex selling a phone is12:17
ggabrieljolla shared a lot of that complexity via PR and blog, a lot more than any other competitor has done to date, so re-reading those should give you some clue12:18
Pawkywell... it all depends12:18
LarstiQPawky: Jolla might not have the rights to do that12:18
PawkyLarstiQ: Thats's the deal they should sign12:19
Pawkyor could sign.. would be a better statement12:19
ggabrielI doubt jolla had the upper hand, this being their first licensee12:19
ggabrielbut even if they had the right, they'd need to reapply for a number of things12:20
Pawkyggabriel: I believe I have read most of them. Well.. I presume Intex doesnt have the Jolla user base yet, and Jolla could sell to them a branded phone12:20
ggabrieleven thinking about it is a faff12:20
Pawkyeverybody happy12:20
Pawkyreapply?12:21
ggabrielso, they have to reapply for certification12:21
ggabrielindia != EU12:21
Pawkythats true..12:21
ggabrielvery different indeed12:21
ggabrielthere are loads of indians in the UK though, I'm sure I'll see an intex phone ;)12:21
Pawkybut it depends upon what hardware the phones use12:21
ggabrielI did see a jolla phone purchased in india last year12:21
ggabrielerm... not really... you have to reapply anyway12:22
Pawkytransmission license?12:22
ggabriela lot of android phones out there are a copy of the nexus with different casing/etc12:22
Pawkyexactly12:22
ggabrielPawky: change the bluetooth stack, you have to reapply; it isn't even hw related12:23
ggabrieleverybody needs to reapply12:23
Pawkytrue..12:23
ggabrielhow will they make money otherwise? ;)12:23
Pawkysucks.. all those licenses.. it will kill any invention in the end12:23
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JollaSailor_Simohi guys13:26
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stephgPSA SFOS FOSS meeting about to start in #mer-meeting14:26
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Yaniellol quasarmx crashes trying to scan my sdcard14:59
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coderusYaniel: which build?15:51
Yanielr126715:51
Yanielafter like 20 retries it seems to have succeeded15:52
Yanielbut the total songs count is 35 less than mpd reports on my desktop  (and the music dirs are synced with syncthing)15:53
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coderusYaniel: 1281 is latest for people who bought pro :P16:00
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Yanielhuh, it claims no newer version available16:06
Yaniellooks like I'll have to reinstall it manually16:06
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Yanielactually there is a r1300 beta16:08
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coderusoh true, 2.1 is released with 1300 build number :)16:12
Yanielnope, no stable build since 126716:12
coderusall builds are stable for me :D16:13
Yanielwell stable as in non-beta16:13
coderus:P16:13
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frieseGood evening dirkvl18:11
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dirkvlhelloooo18:12
friesewhats up?18:12
dirkvlwaiting untill it is no longer possible to postpone doing administration18:13
dirkvlyou? :p18:13
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friesewaiting for news about my jolla tablet, care said i should get a shipping notification "this week"...18:14
narchieso18:14
narchie4 weeks gone18:14
narchiewhere is tablet money?18:14
narchiealthough18:14
narchieI shouldn't be surprised18:14
narchieor expecting anything at this point18:14
friesealso waiting for my fairphone, that should be coming next month...18:14
Aciidnot even the first half received :<18:15
Aciidare these guys using pro-countor :DDD18:15
narchieperhaps Klarna bill18:15
narchiewould be suitable18:15
narchie2,5eur/month18:15
Aciidjoo tästeteepäi kaikki laskul18:16
Aciidsit lykätää nii pitkää kunnes tulee rojut18:16
Aciidvittu saatana mitä paskaa iha ku ois kehitysmaa18:16
Aciidsuomi18:16
narchiei apologize18:16
Aciidpistäkee ne helvetin embedded devit pihalle jos ne o nii kalliita kai sitä intiasta sais servicenä jo18:16
Aciidtai tyylii fiverrista?18:16
Stskeepsit takes a while to move the refund in coins to everybody18:16
narchie1. sign in to paypal18:17
narchie2. send money18:17
narchiethough I suspect the flow is18:18
narchie1. sit on hermannmiller for 4 weeks18:18
Aciidfinitestatemachine18:18
narchie2. sign in to paypal18:18
narchie3. sit on hermannmiller18:18
Aciidsit on kamppi startbucks18:18
narchie4. pay sometime18:18
Aciid2 ) go to kamppi metroasema, buy some blow18:18
Aciid3 ) do some blow on kickstarter money @ kamppi stadin snadit18:18
Aciid4 ) repeat18:19
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OS-19023anyway you put it, im still expecting a full refund18:20
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friesewell, so far for free opinion i guess ;)18:20
Stskeepsnah, nothing to do with free opinion, they've been warned before; naturally people should get their refunds18:21
friesethough i guess you should say that the whole "sign in to paypal, send money" has to be repeated a few thousand times...18:22
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friesealso probably better i haven't gotten that far to learning finish yet18:22
hello123nice18:22
OS-19023you should, theres more to startupscene in finnish dialect that you expect18:22
Stskeepsnot to mention the "transfer money to paypal to be sent off in piles"18:22
OS-19023Stskeeps ok ill stop meme'ing, sorry for what preceeded earlier18:23
Stskeepsw/o paypal becoming their usual monster18:23
frieseand in between all that money sending don't forget to send the remaining tablets, been waiting some time for that :)18:23
OS-19023ive just been hurt so badly like in a bad relationship, you think you were the first ones to take her virginity. you offer the littlefinger it takes your whole arm18:24
StskeepsOS-19023: er.. okay then18:24
* Stskeeps offers OS-19023 a hug?18:24
OS-19023finnish proverb18:24
* OS-19023 accepts18:24
Stskeepsthat said, if jolla had taken all the refunds and invested them into ether about the time refund programme was planned, people would have been a lot happier for the refunds18:25
friesewow, finish people and hugging?18:25
Stskeeps:P18:25
Stskeepsi'm not finnish18:25
Stskeepsi can stand close to people at bus stops18:25
Stskeeps:P18:25
OS-19023how about those unbans now, ill promise to shut it18:25
StskeepsOS-19023: if you're one of the people that got banned, you're now also ban evading on top of it, which isn't exactly a sign of good character18:26
OS-19023cough this is my offensive security handle, i just came here to say im sorry .18:26
Stskeepsoffensive security handle?18:26
Stskeepsnow i'm curious18:26
Stskeeps:P18:26
OS-19023https://www.offensive-security.com/18:27
Stskeepsokay then, which one were you?18:27
OS-19023Aciid18:27
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OS-19023wont happen again ;_; sorry sempai18:27
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friesehumm, looking at that website "i know some of these words" :)18:27
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Stskeepsunbanned, but seriously guys, people are working really hard to get the (partial) refunds to you and the tablets18:27
Stskeepsit's a unforgiving job18:28
Stskeepswe've all been working quite hard to make the tablets and fought really hard to get things working, including going several months without salary; so it's really best effort at this point18:28
Aciidunderstandably a huge effort. but yes theres money at stake also at the lower levels when you fund something, sometimes it feels big when you need that few extra euros yourself when you are promised to get it.18:28
Stskeepsyes18:29
Aciidso for the sake of it lets all hang on and try to be excellent to each other from now on18:29
Aciidsurely this all ends somehow sometime18:29
Aciidand im not even comparing irc to something like kickstarter comment section which is utterly cancerous18:30
Aciidthis is all just thoughtflow compared to that18:30
Stskeepsdid you ever see youtube comments or what newspapers have in their online comment sections?18:30
Stskeepsirc is damn civilized compared18:30
Stskeeps:P18:30
AciidI try to ignore those18:30
frieseafter all, i think it's incredible how long jolla has managed to stay floating, tbh i thought that ship would sink even before the first jolla phone was delivered, guess they proved me wrong there ;)18:30
Stskeepsfriese: i'm still utterly amazed we managed to re-do most of our ui infrastructure, change hw and still ship18:31
Stskeepsin 6 months18:31
Stskeepsit was really close18:31
Aciidim quite sure theres investors keeping it from going bankrupt. what what you value something that is not succesfull 3 years later? its still a startup18:31
Aciidweve all trusted a whole lot on something we belieed that could have become something that beats all odds18:32
frieseyeah, must've been a hell of an adventure, maybe even worth a documentary someday, "the little guys that stood up to the big guys" kinda18:32
Stskeepsfriese: well, maybe RIOT-E 2.0 ..18:32
Aciidriot-on18:32
Stskeepser, ye18:32
Aciid!18:32
Stskeepssorry :)18:32
Aciiddidnt mean to correct you, was more like a verb18:32
Aciidbut speaking truthfuly eversince marc left i've had this feeling that things are not going to get any better. feels like meego all over again18:33
frieseyeah, marc always was the face of the whole operation to me, not to diminish the efforts of the whole team ofc.18:36
frieseanyways, what happend to marc? haven't heard about him for a while18:37
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Stskeepsfriese: now ceo of asmo solutions i think18:46
frieseah right, i remember, that "dont burn my house down"-charger, right?18:46
Stskeepssomething like that18:48
StskeepsAciid: well, admittedly it was the biggest 'oh shit' moment so far; but well, company's alive18:49
Stskeepsfriese: there's also a very big difference between a face in public and the factual people pushing the company forward.. jolla was more of a startup with many startups in each, people that pioneered their areas inside jolla18:51
Stskeepsattracted talent, grew the capabilities, etc18:52
Stskeepsin each=in it18:52
Stskeepsfriese: if you lose the spokesman, the government doesn't fall apart18:52
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frieseyeah, thats true, the government would still have capable people pushing forward just like jolla, but thats kinda like an... ant colony or someting like that? you don't see the accomplishments of each ant but rather the whole pile mushed together18:54
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Stskeepsnod18:55
frieseokay, i'm really bad at comparisons ;)18:55
Stskeepsand sometimes the best thing a founder or ceo or whichever is just not stand in the way18:55
Stskeeps:P18:55
Stskeeps+can do18:55
frieseyeah, though for stuff like marketing & sales it's nice to have a popular spokesperson and not a hundred different voices all shouting in different directions18:56
Stskeepsit'd be utterly terrifying if a whole company idolized one particular person and would fall apart without that person18:57
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friesethats the issue i hear most often about jolla, bad information politics, though maybe thats just cause it's the best for the company itself to not promise to much stuff it can't hold in the end so instead the just fall silent since at a startup like jolla i guess very few things are 100% definite18:58
Stskeepsthe initial hype about jolla was just crazy, too, though18:58
nh1402Stkeeps: I wonder how you feel about Apple then18:58
friesewell, another person has to step up, like at appl18:59
friesealso, i should type faster ;)18:59
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nh1402haven't met an Apple employee before so can't say that they idolise one person, but being Apple they might do.19:00
friesewell, not so much about the employees (from what i heard some even feared jobs), it's more the public perception19:00
nh1402if they can release a laptop with one port, and a phone without a headphone port then it certainly sounds like they do19:00
nh1402I say one port, because you can't plug a usb hub into an audio jack19:01
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r0kk3rzStskeeps: marc has that rockstar personality though, he can just say stuff and people will instantly believe it which is a powerful kind of person to have on your side19:55
Stskeepssure19:55
r0kk3rzim sure Antti is a fine CEO dude, but he pales in comparison speaking at SLUSH19:56
Stskeepswell, finnish people and public speaking.. :)19:56
r0kk3rzfor sure there is a cultural aspect there as well19:56
Stskeepsfor whatever i do next i should get john mcafee19:56
Stskeeps:P19:56
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r0kk3rzoh yeah20:02
r0kk3rzthat would be amazing20:02
nh1402r0kk3rz: speaking of Rockstar apparently they're terrible employers20:05
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r0kk3rznh1402: the game studio? or general rockstar people?20:10
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nh1402r0kk3rz: the game studio20:48
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Nokiusr0kk3rz: I saw him life and he is a great speaker21:12
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r0kk3rzNokius: who antti?21:30
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Nokiusr0kk3rz: yes21:31
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Nokiussorry it's live and life21:31
r0kk3rzheh yeah that can be a tricky one21:33
r0kk3rzive only seen the SLUSH video for antti, so maybe im being too harsh on him21:33
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