#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2016-10-30

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pdanek1Hello guys,18:23
pdanek1Microsoft announced new cheap line of VR devices for PCs18:23
pdanek1perhaps some middle ground between Vive/Oculus and mobile VRs18:23
pdanek1Which VR you think will truly drive the market and have most of money put in? Mobile VR?18:24
pdanek1Because PC's are kind of dying right?18:24
pdanek1And #2, is Jolla already working on some form of VR support?18:25
RiotelaI understood you-know-who is working on it (Turing Mobile Industries)18:27
RiotelaI just realised it's TMI which is also Too Much Information :O18:28
kimmoliisn't it TRI ? Turing Robotics ?18:29
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RiotelaOh, that explains show realizing. Who is MI or where did I take it?18:30
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YanielToiMinimI?18:34
r0kk3rzpdanek1: im not convinced PCs are dying, they just became 'good enough'18:34
r0kk3rzand then VR came along and suddenly they arent anymore18:34
pdanek1r0kk3rz: you look at it from European + US point of view, where having PC is a norm18:42
pdanek1but the real potential and huge market of people raises in South America, Africa and Asia18:42
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Yanielyes?18:44
r0kk3rzpdanek1: and? theres quite a large amount of things people do on PCs that is not really practical on another form factor18:45
Yanieljust because half of the world doesn't use PCs doesn't mean the PC is dead18:45
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pdanekTest test18:46
r0kk3rzdesigners, planners, engineers, programmers, creatives, doctors, everyone uses PCs for loads of things18:46
pdanekDid I miss message before?18:46
pdanekI just see "designers, planners, engineers, programmers, creatives, doctors, everyone uses PCs for loads of things"18:46
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pdanekr0kk3rz: yes, I don't say PCs will be gone, I discussed which platform will dominate VR market and I still think it will be 80% mobile VR and somewhere around 10% will be PC VR and another 10% consoles VR18:47
pdanekif not more than 80%18:47
r0kk3rzim not sure mobile is good enough18:48
pdanekit isn't now18:48
r0kk3rzbut you might be right, its not so much about what is best but what people have18:48
pdanekbut phones were kind of getting too powerful and nobody needed the power, who wants to play 3D games on 5 inch display18:48
pdaneknow there is finally huge reason for getting faster cpus and gpus in phones18:49
r0kk3rzif you dont have a pc, slapping down $1000 for a good gaming pc is megabux18:49
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pdanekmy girlfriend's family in Vietnam, they just have one older laptop at home used for web browsing or some work18:50
pdanekbut most of them have smartphones and tablets, mostly expensive iphones or samsungs, despite their low wages18:50
pdanekand that's how it looks in most of emerging markets18:50
pdanekI only tried GearVR and it was quite impressive already... now what will be 2 years ahead18:52
pdanekhtc vive and oculus is fine for gamers who have high end gaming PCs, that will be "enough market" to drive their development and sales18:52
pdanekbut mobile VR will skyrocket IMO18:53
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Yanielmaybe, but it'll suck18:53
Yanielfor a long time18:53
pdanekthat's why I wonder whether Jolla already has that, at least on drawing board18:53
pdanekplanned*18:54
pdanekbecause Jolla is now just playing catch up game18:54
r0kk3rzi doubt it18:54
r0kk3rzand i dont really see what they would bring to the VR game that isnt already being brung18:55
pdaneknono... I mean support of existing Daydream VR on Jolla  etc.18:55
pdanekbut perhaps that won't be so difficult to implement when the times comes?18:55
r0kk3rzthat would be up to myriad i think18:56
pdanekbecause I don't know how good the AlienDalvik is right now, if it develops at all18:56
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pdaneksupport for VulkanAPI in Jolla for example18:56
tango_I wish aliendalvik was replaced with a fully open source dalvik VM 8-/18:57
YanielI wish aliendalvik was replaced with native apps18:57
pdanekI think it's safe to say at this point, that Jolla's only chance to survive is keep supporting Android apps and keep improving the support18:58
pdaneknative apps dream has died18:58
pdanekand Myriad, isn't the only customer using Alien Dalvik being Jolla?18:58
pdanekor anyone else uses it?18:58
tango_it would be nice if there was an sdk that allowed Qt apps for SailfishOS to be compiled for android as well18:59
pdanekI wonder whether there is any development in AlienDalvik still18:59
pdanekor they just keep it alive18:59
pdanekhmm18:59
r0kk3rzpdanek: why has the 'native apps' dream died?19:00
Yanielwell, you do kind of have a point with the death of native apps19:01
YanielI mean look at atom: we don't even get native text editors19:01
Yanieland that's on desktop19:01
pdanekr0kk3rz: because even Windows Phone's biggest weakness is lack of native apps and they're 100x bigger than Jolla19:02
pdanekIf anyone activately developed native apps after released of Jolla, that effort in community seems to be 10% of what we had before19:02
tango_the market is too small and with basically no ROI19:03
r0kk3rztango_: im not convinced theres much ROI in any apps anywhere19:03
tango_r0kk3rz: for most apps, that's true19:03
r0kk3rzbut sure, lots of early supporters of jolla have left19:04
tango_but then again most apps don't even need to exist in the first place, or are stupid clones of each other19:04
pdanekI think Jolla needs to become another android with cool gestures19:04
pdanekmeaning that the support for android apps will be radically improved19:04
tango_and that's on any market (ios, android or windows phone)19:04
pdanekand android buttons: home, back and menu, would be somehow inteligently replaced by gestures19:04
pdanekJolla needs to become -> Sailfish needs to become*19:05
tango_pdanek: meh, I still have a preference for native apps where possible19:05
pdanektango: you alone are not going to keep the company alive :)19:05
tango_and as I said, this would be possible if it was possible to 'write once'  and then have the app compile both as a sailfish os app and a Qt on Android app19:05
r0kk3rztango_: its not far from it actually19:06
r0kk3rztheres some tools to do that19:06
pdanekwow, first time I see that video (wait for the second part with CEO talking): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYiWAcv5ogQ19:07
r0kk3rzhopefully we will see some more cross ports once we get on qt5.6, same as ubuntu touch is moving to19:07
tango_(how does maps.me do ios+android+windows?)19:08
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mornfalltango_: your write once claim is as bogus as it always was...19:36
mornfallthe apps never fit, not with java, not with qt, not with myriad other "write once" technologies19:36
mornfalloh, html5 of course19:37
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phlixi_html actually works pretty good, its just really bad implemented usually19:37
phlixi_sadly19:37
mornfall...19:38
mornfallit's good, but it's bad, yeah19:38
mornfallmakes sense... also, html apps look out of place everywhere19:38
phlixi_that bad execution, because there is nothing an html app has to look like, it can look like anything19:39
mornfallso you write dozen versions of your app to make it fit... whooosh there goes write once19:40
phlixi_well, i dont buy the "write once" stuff as well... but in theory its just another stylesheet19:40
mornfallyeah, because buttons can be replaced with swipes in a stylesheet19:40
phlixi_dispolay19:41
phlixi_oops19:41
phlixi_display:none19:41
phlixi_gestures can be done in js19:42
phlixi_google hammer19:42
phlixi_^^19:42
Yanielcongrats, you just broke the layout of your entire app19:42
Yanielnot that anyone cares, but it just became a little bit more horrible19:42
mornfallphlixi_: yeah, no.19:42
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pdanekWhat happened to Yotaphone? I thought they were successful, I would have expected Yotaphone 3 by now.20:28
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coderuspdanek: well...20:41
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pdanek2coderus: hey21:06
pdanek2did I miss some reply? :D21:06
coderusnope21:06
pdanek2coderus: Do you know some Yotaphone guys?21:06
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pdanek2they went surprisingly quiet21:07
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coderusyotaphone 2 was not successful21:08
coderusthey dropeed price a lot to sell at least something21:08
pdanekcoderus: oh really, I thought it was21:08
pdanekis there any other Russian OEM that is successful with smartphones?21:08
pdanekI mean successful outside Russia21:09
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cehtehthe idea with the oled display is nice21:23
cehteherr epaper21:23
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coderushm, Highscreen?21:26
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schoppenhauerHi. Whats the easiest way to install mosh on sailfishos?23:39
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