Thursday, 2020-04-02

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*** Jaymzz changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday Apr 2nd 2020 at 08:00 UTC. Topics can be created here: - Tasks are written and followed here:"07:24
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*** Jaymzz changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday Apr 2nd 2020 at 08:00 UTC. Topics can be created here:"07:37
JaymzzStarting the meeting in 10 minutes (experiencing some connection issues)08:01
JaymzzStarting in 3 minutes08:07
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Jaymzzdamn, I keep getting disconnected... I hope this goes well08:11
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Jaymzz#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 202008:12
sailbotMeeting started Thu Apr  2 08:12:54 2020 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:12
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 2020)"08:12
Jaymzz#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
JaymzzI am the meeting’s chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.08:13
JaymzzApologies for the messed up timing today. It's one of those days where nothing works as it should. Hopefully this will go well.08:13
Jaymzz#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info08:13
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 2020)"08:13
Jaymzz#info James Noori - sailor @ Jolla08:14
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ Jolla08:14
juiceme#info juiceme - SFOS user and random developer08:15
pasik#info pasik - community08:15
birdzhang#info BirdZhang - community08:15
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community08:15
ljo#info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community08:16
minodesign-guest#info Minodesign, J-D blog editor08:18
JaymzzApBBB: you on as well? :) your topic is coming up in a minute or so08:18
ApBBByep i know08:19
ApBBBi am here08:19
Jaymzz#topic Status update of fingerprint reader support for community devices (5 min – asked by ApBBB)08:20
*** sailbot changes topic to "Status update of fingerprint reader support for community devices (5 min – asked by ApBBB) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 2020)"08:20
Jaymzz#info It was discussed previously and jolla was looking into a solution so community devices can use the fingerprint support in SFOS. Update us on the status of it.08:20
JaymzzHere comes the answer08:20
Jaymzz#info We have been doing some research around the problem, and made some progress on removing device specifics from fingerprint backend. It's not complete yet, so can't share the results or estimate on when it would be.08:21
ApBBBok. i am covered with that. hopefully sooner than later i can use the fingerprint on my xz2c.08:21
Jaymzzfingers crossed08:22
ApBBBits a really nice device. and i'd like to have it working on its full potential.08:22
Jaymzzdefinitely understandable!08:23
ApBBBBTW if you can release it for community sony and then other devices i wont mind :P08:23
ApBBBwe can move on in case noone elsa has something to add.08:23
JaymzzNoted ;)08:23
Jaymzz#topic Performance of the SFOS UI (15 min – asked by ApBBB)08:24
*** sailbot changes topic to "Performance of the SFOS UI (15 min – asked by ApBBB) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 2020)"08:24
Jaymzz#info I am running -and using daily- SFOS on a quite fast device and cant help think that it feels kind of unresponsive interacting with it. Some of those are design decisions like the tile then fullscreen app start (which i feel is wrong) and then there are hiccups when moving through different pages of an app or scrolling lists etc. If you activate the frame rate viewer you see a lot of red lines doing the above so it might08:24
Jaymzz be something wrong. So the question. Is jolla aware of those issues and is there work in making the phone feel more responsive. (performance and design wise)08:24
JaymzzDo you have anything more to add to this ApBBB? :)08:25
ApBBBnot really. those are the stuff i see.08:26
bionade24Jaymzz: The pdf viewer sometimes doesn't render parts, will this be fixed with next Qt version?08:26
juicemejust my 2cents, is this slowness doe to soem special applications since I do not feel the OS to be unresponsive at a,, at least on XperiaX08:26
dcalistebionade24, I don't think it's linked to Qt.08:26
flypigbionade24, do you mean certain types of data don't get rendered, or do you mean occasionally there's a bar missing from the bottom of the page, say, when scrolling?08:26
rinigusApBBB: maybe some specifics would help. like which apps, condiitons08:26
Jaymzzbionade24: I'll get back to you on this one08:27
bionade24ApBBB: The python Apps often are slower08:27
flypigApBBB, I'm curious to know your thoughts about the "tile then fullscreen app start". How do you think it should work to make it appear faster/smoother/nicer?08:27
bionade24flypig: Parts of the pdf don't get rendered08:27
ApBBBflypig that is an animation issue. i'll answer to that in a bit.08:27
dcalistebionade24, are always at the same place of screen ?08:28
JaymzzApBBB: to give you an answer from our design department:08:28
flypigbionade24: when scrolling around? I think those should be fixable now, could be Callibra rendering related.08:28
bionade24dcaliste: No, but it occurs more often when you zoom in.08:28
ApBBBone thing i see is that scrolling through lists with images ie the media player. i have  about 90 albums and it doesn't feel quite smooth.08:28
flypigbionade24, sometimes it can take a while to render, and appears to miss parts (because they're not currently cached as bitmaps).08:28
Jaymzz#info Design is aware if this. Performance is essential for current generation of users. Android and iOS run smoothly. Next to plain processing power, the UI design has also impact on the perceived performance, meaning it may generate the feeling of slowness or speedy interaction and progress. We are considering improving app launching transitions to improve perceived speed in future.08:29
bionade24flypig: They never occur until you scroll08:29
ApBBBbut its not only in the apps. sometimes interaction on the main UI feels choppy.08:29
pvuorelabionade24: there are some pdf rendering changes coming up. won't necessarily fix your problems, but there's a chance.08:29
ApBBBflypig i believe that a transition from tap to full window instantly (even if the contents of the app arent shown) feels better.08:30
flypigbionade24, that makes sense, because usually the parts that are cached are those on screen, or recently on screen.08:30
ApBBBflypig try a ios device08:30
JaymzzApBBB: noted, but I think it's better to do this step by step :)08:30
flypigApBBB, thanks, that's useful to know. I'll try and see.08:30
rinigusApBBB: that media player may query something from storage, like sd card, while you scroll. not sure though08:31
ApBBBflypig go to a store and play with one (once the coronavirus shit is over obviously)08:31
ApBBBrinigus even after everything is loaded the first time.08:31
ApBBBi see this08:31
flypigApBBB, yeah. I will take a look. It might be interesting to see some SFOS prototype of it too.08:32
rinigusApBBB: its maybe loaded using lazy loader, so it doesn't all have to be in ram08:32
rinigusApBBB: statring fullscreen - and what should happen if app fails to start?08:33
ApBBBon the subject of scrolling you can also be in the settings app and scroll up and down fast and still see red lines in the frame viewer08:33
ApBBBrinigus a message on the window and a message to  try to restart08:33
ApBBBeven though stuff like that shouldn't happen08:33
flypigApBBB, but do those red lines actually look like glitches for the user?08:34
ApBBBflypig in some cases i feel its choppy :/08:34
ApBBBsometimes not08:34
flypigApBBB, and which device?08:34
ApBBBquite fast08:35
JaymzzApBBB: I can also say that sometimes while scrolling when I have a lot of files I see the choppiness08:35
rinigusso, scrolling on xz2 through emails. it feels smooth unless it was pulling emails on the same time, when it became a touch choppy, but nothing too bad.08:36
ApBBByou can see the red lines with choppines in the media player scrolling a long album list08:37
flypigDo a lot of your albums have covers?08:38
ApBBBmany have08:38
vknechtmaybe could use QPA_HWC_IDLE_TIME and QPA_HWC_BUFFER_COUNT ?
ApBBBi think it happens in pages with not just text. if there are other graphics its more likely to chop08:39
*** Nico[m] is now known as Nico|MentorforNh08:40
flypigCan you record a video of it using a separate device? It's hard to understand how severe the choppiness is.08:40
ApBBBflypig sadly i don't have anything to record it with. and it will probably need a high speed camera or something/08:41
Jaymzzflypig: it's pretty visible, and when I compare it to Android or iOS, it just shouldn't be there.08:41
rinigusvknecht: maybe we should try. ApBBB, try to insert on your device and see if it makes a difference08:41
ApBBBi'll give this a try at some point08:43
Jaymzztime is up for this one, ApBBB do you need more?08:43
ApBBBno i think i am ok. since the design is looking into the UI feel and others experience this choppyness (ie jaymzz) i believe its something that jolla can fix at some point08:44
flypigI agree it's an important area. The device should feel slick.08:44
ApBBBunless someone else has something to add we can move on08:44
ApBBBflypig maybe try stuff in a j1 or something08:45
ApBBBwhich is slow in general.08:45
pasikui on my jollaC is choppy sometimes aswell, but it's much less powerful device so I guess that's expected08:45
flypigYes, I do see a difference between C and 10.08:45
ApBBBin a j1 i thought it was to be expected but the xz2c can run fortnite.08:46
ApBBBis not a slow phone. and probably faster than the official devices08:46
pasikyeah, ui should run at full framerate all the time, and not drop frames08:47
flypigI think there's an important difference between slower update generally, and glitches that cause the UI to halt for a noticable time.08:47
ApBBBflypig that needs instrumentation to catch i think.08:47
rinigusApBBB: I would expect that its the fastest SFOS device, or one of them, right now08:47
flypigApBBB, yes, exactly.08:48
ApBBBflypig thats why i said jolla should look into it.08:48
JaymzzApBBB: moving on :) let's get back to this in the future again08:49
Jaymzz#topic general discussion (15 min)08:49
*** sailbot changes topic to "general discussion (15 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 2020)"08:49
ApBBBok general questions time08:49
Jaymzzbionade24: regarding yoour question about the Documents app:08:49
ApBBBis anyone looking into systemd-homed08:49
Jaymzzbionade24:  it's not dependent on Qt. We have been making improvements on Documents app in several releases and will still release more.08:50
ApBBBi played a bit with it and its quite cool and has features we can use i think08:50
flypigWhich features were you thinking of?08:51
abransonApBBB: yes we've seen homed. very cool addition08:51
ApBBBflypig encryption, moving homes made easy (and i believe backups)08:52
ApBBBi played with it on desktop though08:52
pasikany news about sailfishos 3.3.0 status?08:53
ApBBBpasik soon™08:53
abransonstill being tested. still some problems to fix.08:54
ApBBBJaymzz is the design looking into improving stuff like the email app and camera???08:55
juicemeHas anyone looked into the poroblem with Dpurgin's Call Recorder when handling incoming calls on XperiaX? (might be on other devices too...?)08:55
ApBBBif you have any info that is?08:55
juicemeI think it is problem in pulseaudio08:55
pasikApBBB: :)08:55
JaymzzApBBB: yes :)08:56
ApBBBthe email app needs love08:56
JaymzzApBBB: We always look into improving different apps. It'll all happen eventually when we have the time to design, develop and test them properly. Slow and steady does it :)08:57
ApBBBJaymzz many stuff need love. ie the icons of the apps feel dated etc08:57
ApBBBand many stuff mentioned in the 100 paper cuts08:57
flypigjuiceme, does it affect the built-in call recording too?08:57
Jaymzzyeah, noted08:58
juicemewell regarding the pulseaudio problems regarding receiving calls... that has been evident for at least an year already...08:58
juicemeflypig: the built-in call recorder is so poor I cannot use it. quality is so bad on bot made and recaived calls and the storage is poorly handled.08:59
juicemethat's why I use the Dpurgin one, even though it only can recors calls I make :(08:59
Jaymzz5 min left on this. It's now lunch time in Finland so we should end this soon :)09:01
minodesign-guestHallo, there is some news on compatibility with smartwatches?09:02
minodesign-guestor enhanced compatibility with earphones?09:02
ApBBBminodesign-guest do you have issues with bt headsets??09:03
Jaymzzminodesign-guest: Nothing on smartwatches from Jolla's side, but the community always works on those kinds of compatibilities09:03
abransonjuiceme: that's not on the store though - only openrepos. those apps can do anything they like - and jolla can't really support them for that. in the past such apps have completely broken system upgrades.09:03
Jaymzzminodesign-guest: What enhancement with earphones are you referring to?09:03
abransonimproving the quality of the built-in recorder might be possible though09:03
minodesign-guestBT for earphone works solid09:03
minodesign-guestbut basic. Many apps doesn't support the tap to stop feature09:04
abransonBT music control isn't there yet. there's a workaround involving setting up an mpris-proxy service on tjc.09:04
minodesign-guestan also, multitasking. If I play a video on browser and lock the device, it stops.09:04
abransonbut that's not robust enough to become official09:05
minodesign-guestalso, when I switch in multitasking the video stop...09:05
flypigabranson, is that mpris that needs love, or the proxy service?09:05
Jaymzztime is up for this one guys. let's wrap it09:06
abransonflypig: the proxy service is from bluez and doesn't really work well enough to be officially supported.09:06
flypigabranson, okay. I think mpris also isn't externally supported either yet (for other apps to use).09:06
abransonflypig: but there's a PR for mpris-qt5 to move the bluez connection centrally and support this. Jare started it and I worked on it a bit.09:06
flypigSounds promising.09:07
abransonflypig: it's a candidate for harbour support though. i think this is one of the last things that needs stabilizing for it to make it through09:07
abransonit's a bit stuck now though - needs more thought09:07
flypigAlso sounds promising :)09:07
abransonflypig: if you fancy a punt09:08
ApBBBabranson is it possible for someone to compile a list of things that SFOS needs and might be able to be handled by the community???09:08
abransonApBBB: could be. though tjc and irc conversations often end up pointing people to source code etc. it's not hard to find.09:09
juicemeabranson: Weel even though the Call Recorder is in openrepos the way it works is it uses pulseaudio hooks for call recording. The problem is in PA, not in the recorder itself09:10
dcalisteApBBB, the paper cut list is a good start. Most of the pointed stuff imply to have access to closed source parts, but some not.09:10
abransonjuiceme: but if the internal recorder works, then there must be something different in the way it's using PA?09:11
flypigabranson, the comments on that PR don't look major in term of fixing effort.09:12
abransonflypig: i think pekka just didn't like the approach, and he's probably right.09:12
JaymzzThis is now way over time, let's try and wrap up guys :)09:13
flypigabranson, ah yes, I see that lengthy conversation at the end. There's much more going on there.09:13
abransonsorry Jaymzz! please go ahead09:14
Jaymzz#topic next meeting time and date (5 min)09:14
*** sailbot changes topic to "next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 2nd of April 2020)"09:14
Jaymzz#info Next meeting will be held on April 16th 2020 at 08:00 UTC09:14
flypigSorry for delaying things, but thanks Jaymzz.09:15
JaymzzAll good. Ending the meeting in a second. Please note that we now have 08:00 UTC instead of 09:00 UTC due to daylight savings09:15
JaymzzTalk to you all in 2 weeks! Thanks for this time :)09:15
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Apr  2 09:16:02 2020 UTC.09:16
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday Apr 2nd 2020 at 08:00 UTC. Topics can be created here:"09:16
ljoThx, bye!09:16
dcalisteThank you all, good bye.09:19
*** Jaymzz changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday Apr 16th 2020 at 08:00 UTC. Topics can be created here:"09:21

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