Thursday, 2020-04-16

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Jaymzz#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 16th of April 202008:00
sailbot_Meeting started Thu Apr 16 08:00:34 2020 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at
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Jaymzz#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
JaymzzI am the meeting’s chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.08:01
Jaymzz#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info08:01
Jaymzzhmm, it didn't register08:02
Jaymzzit'll be correct in the logs anyway so please go ahead :)08:02
*** piggz_ is now known as piggz08:02
Jaymzz#info James Noori - sailor @ Jolla08:02
piggz#info Adam Pigg - Commnity porter08:02
Nico[m]#info Nico, community dev08:02
julienb#info Julien, app developer08:04
JaymzzNot many attendees today, I thought everyone was staying home :)08:04
Nico[m]But if you are staying home, why get up early? ;p08:05
JaymzzGood point ;)08:05
Nico[m]Also I forgot it was thursday08:06
JaymzzYeah you do lose the track of time when you aren't going out...08:06
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, sailor @ Jolla08:06
JaymzzAnyway I hope everyone is safe and healthy :) I'll move on to the first topic in a moment08:06
Jaymzz#topic NFC access from android layer08:08
Jaymzz#info Details: huawei phones have no GMS now and use their substitute HMS ( ). There is an app that works there for NFC payments. if Jolla would allow Android apps to use NFC, would it work on SFOS?08:08
JaymzzAnswer coming up:08:09
Jaymzz#info Currently we are working on our NFC support in general for Sailfish OS and it is still in early phases. It will still take some time until we will start checking feasibility of adding support for the Android App Support side.08:09
JaymzzThe person asking the question is offline. So let's see if anyone else has anything to say about this :)08:10
rinigussounds like very reasonable approach. let's get it working well on Sailfish and Android layer can always wait.08:11
JaymzzYes indeed :)08:11
JaymzzI think we have a record today for the amount of people attending the meeting, in terms of how low the number is :D so I guess I can move on to general discussion and see if anyone has anything to bring up '08:13
flypigThat's an unfortunately record :)08:13
bionade24Hi, I'm late. In the libsilica wiki, there are Links to Qt 5.14. Could those maybe replaced to the 5.6 ones in the internet Archive?08:14
julienbi was not sure i could attend today, so i did not bring the topic to the schedule, but if there is a bit of available time i'd like to raise this request on the table :
piggzwell, as a general question, has anyone had an issue with 3.3 where mail no longer automatically downloads unless the email app is open?08:14
Jaymzzok I'll change the topic to general discussion then08:14
Jaymzz#topic general discussion (20 min)08:14
flypigpiggz, there are new folder sync settings, could that be the cause?08:15
Nico[m]piggz: I didn't notice that, but I almost always have my email app open anyway, so...08:16
julienb@piggz no, but i got hang of phone app two times (need to kill it and reopen it, unsure if phone was still able to receive calls)08:16
flypigbionade24, that's a sensible idea. Probably ViGe is the person to ask about that?08:16
piggzflypig: maybe ... i checked in accounts and the account is set to sync every 30 mins08:16
flypigAlso, the folder sync. It might be set to not sync any folders?08:16
piggzits a gmail account ... flypig, where are the folder sync settings?08:16
bionade24flypig: Even with 3.2 it never synced all folders08:17
bionade24piggz: ^08:17
flypigSettings > Accounts > Gmail > scroll to "Synced folders" I think (I don't have a Gmail account configured just now to double check).08:18
piggzwell, i only care about the inbox syncing, not bothered about the spam folder :)08:18
piggzflypig: it says Synced folder: inbox only08:18
piggzwhich seems ok08:19
bionade24ViGe: R u there?08:19
flypigpiggz, yeah, then I guess not that.08:19
flypigIf you have to set it sync every 30 mins, that would be buteo's job to do.08:20
Nico[m]Is there a way to contribute documentation or guides to sailfish? I needed to dig a bit to figure out how to use background tasks appropriately (from C++), and I would like to document that, if possible. I could of course contribute that to the library documentation, but I had trouble finding that in the first place. Maybe that would be good to post in the forum, when it is released?08:21
piggzflypig: ill check logs later :)08:21
Nico[m](There is documentation for the Qml type on the silica page, but not for the C++ type)08:22
piggzother question i saw from leszek on telegram ...  is the tabview private only?08:23
flypigI'm pretty sure the tabview is still private.08:23
piggzas im i, thats what i said, just checking08:23
Nico[m]Would be neat, if it wasn't though :D08:24
flypigYes, I agree, it'd be nice if it wasn't, but I think there were a few things that needed to be checked/ironed out before.08:24
flypigNico[m], I think the intended approach for documentation is via a PR, but otherwise, yes, I'd say the new developer forum sounds good.. when it exists.08:24
piggzquestion 3 : can you please fix the browser in the sdk emulator08:25
piggzdefinitley becuase i want to use the browser in the emultor for my day to day work08:25
Nico[m]flypig: A PR to the library or is there some other repo for documentation?08:25
flypigQ3: a good point, but I think another one for the SDK team. Jaymzz, I guess these can be passed on?08:26
Jaymzzflypig: absolutely08:27
bionade24piggz: What doesn't work excactly? I tried it and it worked for me.08:27
abransonno I think that's a gecko problem. hopefully that will get fixed shortly08:27
bionade24piggz: Sorry I thought silica webview08:27
abransonthe browser shows nothing but a blank page on the emulator (and native devices)08:27
flypigNico[m], yeah to the library, as the docs are then doxygen generated. I take your point though: for tutorial-type stuff that may not really appropriate.08:27
flypig*be appropriate.08:28
piggzJaymzz: the pinephone port would be a great benficiary to the emulator being fixed ... which is quite random :)08:29
flypigNico[m], sounds like it would be good documentation to have somewhere though, certainly.08:29
Nico[m]flypig: I'll see what I can do. Some more guidance/documentation would be appropriate in the library, but I think some general guides on how to do stuff in Sailfish would be nice to put somewhere :308:29
Jaymzzpiggz: wouldn't it? :) random but true!08:30
ViGebionade24: Where exactly are the wrong links?08:30
bionade24ViGe: They point to latest08:30
rinigusnot sure we need to update the links to old Qt. Wouldn't it be better to focus on getting Qt version bumped to match the current link?08:31
piggzrinigus: +108:31
flypigNico[m], I fully agree. ViGe, is there a repo for general tutorial/docs that Nico[m] could contribute to?08:31
piggzq4: is jolla impacted by the ongoing Qt/kde  shenanigans ?08:32
bionade24rinigus: 5.14 will never have LTS. I would stay on 5.1208:32
julienbrinigus: in any case the Qt version would reasonably need to be an LTS one, not the latest one08:32
abransonpiggz, Jaymzz: looks like gecko isn't working with mesa, which both of those use?08:32
piggzabranson: i know that ;)08:32
abransonnot very random then :)08:32
bionade24piggz: Are they really ongoing? I thought it's over now.08:32
piggzi know, but it may seem random to those not in the know ;)08:33
piggzbionade24: who knows, i loose track!08:33
ViGeflypig: Unfortunately the repo is not public :/08:33
flypigOh, that's a shame. Not yet public, or not likely ever?08:33
Nico[m]ViGe: That's just a setting, that you can change! Just flip the switch! (Jokes aside, having that repo public would probably be useful)08:34
rinigusI would say that the issues with qt/kde are ongoing. so, reasonable question08:34
bionade24rinigus: What happened in last days after tQtC released their statement?08:35
rinigus... but probably hard to have any response as Jolla doesn't seem to have yet Qt update policy set08:35
bionade24rinigus: I think the biggest problem for Jolla is the License change of QtWayland to GPLv308:36
Jaymzzglad to see the discussion liven up after a rather underwhelming start :)08:36
rinigusbionade24: don't know much about whether anything happened. but statement was vague08:36
Nico[m]I'd say Jolla isn't affected by the Qt stuff, as it lags in Qt versions by more than a year usually anyway! ;p08:36
rinigusbionade24: when did qtwayland license change? do you know the version of corresponding qt08:37
bionade24rinigus: Oktober 2019
bionade24rinigus: Qt 5.1408:38
rinigusok, so 5.12 is still gplv3-safe08:39
bionade24rinigus: It's LGPLv3, though. Don't know why this is a problem for Jolla08:39
piggzit would be nice to get a statement from Jolla on the exact issues preventing a Qt upgrade, on  a package by package basis08:40
bionade24piggz: +108:40
rinigusno idea, and lost any hope to get an answer regarding qt / license issues any time even soon^TM08:40
riniguspiggz: yes, such statement is needed08:41
Jaymzzpiggz I'll try to get your questions answered by the next meeting as good as I can08:41
piggzor even just a statement saying we intend to stick with 5.6 for the forseeable, so we stop going round in circles08:41
piggzJaymzz: thx v much :)08:41
rinigusI wonder if we should switch to nemo after 5.12 update there. or have some kind of hybrid...08:42
piggzrinigus: that be fighting talk :D08:43
rinigusJaymzz: please do, that qt state has to be clear for all.08:43
Jaymzzpiggz it would make it much easier if you could email me your questions. Would you be able to do that? :) Just wanna have them organised and avoid potentially missing anything from the logs08:43
Jaymzzrinigus: I'll do my best :)08:44
Nico[m]Didn't they say in the last meeting or so, that Qt would be upgraded next after the toolchain upgrades in 3.3?08:44
piggzJaymzz: ok, ill do that shortly :) i can chuck in a status on the fingerprint support too :D08:44
Nico[m](Or at least that toolchain was prioritized before Qt for the mean time until 3.3)08:44
bionade24Nico[m]: But they said they haven't solved the licensing issues, though08:45
Jaymzzpiggz: yeah take all the advantage of it :D haha! and I assume you have my email? james.noori at jolla dot com08:45
rinigusJaymzz: you don't have to wait for the next meeting, its great if you could use blog for it08:45
piggzJaymzz: yes, from the blog stuff, which never appeared ;)08:45
rinigusNico: I don't have such impression regarding qt update. but maybe I missed something ...08:46
Nico[m]Or just write a short statement in the #sailfishos channel, since most of the people that are interested in the Qt upgrade listen to that channel anyway08:47
Nico[m]rinigus: Well, I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered some talk about it...08:47
bionade24Nico[m]: You're right, but they also said why I said in the same meeting08:47
ljosorry to be late, had another meeting08:48
Jaymzzrinigus: It probably won't appear on the blog at this moment. We are doing some changes in the background that I'll probably be able to tell you about it soon(tm) ;) so let's see how things work out, The current world situation has slowed down everything unfortunately so that's why I used soon(tm) thingy again.08:49
Jaymzzpiggz: the above statement applies to what you said too :)08:49
piggzok :)08:49
rinigusI think a clear message stating what are the issues and what is the current plan is needed. if you cannot put it into blog, maybe some irc channel or devel mailing list will be as good08:50
Jaymzzljo welcome! we only had 1 topic today, but the general discussion is going pretty great!08:50
Jaymzzrinigus: noted08:50
rinigusor Jaymzz , you don't want to state anything "officially"?08:50
Jaymzzrinigus: you mean on the blog?08:50
riniguscross-posting. let's skip my prev message as you noted that statement can be sent via irc or mailing list08:52
Jaymzzalright :)08:52
JaymzzI assume there are not much more to dusciss right now, as we are over time and I see the discussion has quieted down08:52
JaymzzI'll give it a few more seconds and will move on08:53
rinigusbtw, I don't mind getting "unofficial" info via those channels. in this respect, just saying we are going to do this and that, problems are those, we plan to do it in this timeframe, but it maybe delayed08:53
Nico[m]I'm just waiting for the dev forum :D08:53
JaymzzNico[m]: what I said above is related to what you are waiting for ;)08:53
Nico[m]Jaymzz: That sounds great!08:54
Jaymzzrinigus: what we say as sailors are counted as official so even if I talk here casually about these topics and say what I know, it counts as official statements that will then be spread in the community08:54
Jaymzzso we've got to be careful ;) history teaches us that :P08:55
ljorinigus: +108:55
Nico[m]Also about the Qt stuff still, I think most of us are developers and understand if something gets delayed and since this is mostly about APIs, inofficial infos should be fine. But currently it feels like we are completely in the dark, which is a bit discouraging :D08:55
rinigusI would argue against it as history teaches us of Jolla being over-cautious and rather secretive. :)08:56
rinigus^ as a devil's advocate08:56
JaymzzNico[m]: understood. I'll take this concern forward08:56
ljoJaymzz: But, the plans can be changed. We all know that, but at least this is what is stated now under current situation.08:57
bionade24+ 1 for the developer forum. Would help me as a newbie a lot08:57
Nico[m](I understand that official statements can get you in a lot of trouble, especially if you announce something, and then can't deliver, but some updates if Jolla is working on Qt is very helpful for devs to plan, what they prioritize themselves)08:57
Nico[m]bionade24: The dev forum is already planned for a while and was announced a while ago. So it will come at some point, but I'm also waiting for it eagerly :308:58
abransonits when people don't accept the reason that things are delayed or can't happen that the problems arise. it's very easy to over-simplify things, and view real reasons as 'excuses'08:58
rinigusljo: exactly,08:58
Jaymzzljo: indeed, you understand that. and many others too, but not everyone! We have seen in the past that by publishing some plans, and then changing them later for whatever reason, people became angry! And that's something we obviously want to avoid.09:00
flypigIf you want to get an idea of updates and progress (in general), the best way is to look at the public pull requests, I always think.09:00
JaymzzPlus, Jolla has customers that have their own needs and requirements. It is rarely appreciated if we publish some info about the future work we are going to do for them.09:01
rinigusflypig: last time I looked, there were none with the respect of Qt updates09:01
abransonyes, there's always a lot more going on in the repos than can even be sensibly declared officially09:01
JaymzzWhat I'm trying to say here is that we have to hold a balance between what we can and can't say, and try to keep both our community and corporate customers happy.09:01
JaymzzIt's not the easiest thing in the world, but I'm personally here for the community's sake. And I always do what I can to get as much as possible for the community :)09:02
JaymzzBut as mentioned, I'll take piggz' questions and will see what I can bring out of them :)09:03
rinigusJaymzz: looking forward then for your replies to piggz  questions09:03
Nico[m]Jaymzz: Yes, I'm very grateful for all you do. I'm just complaining, because I also want to shift the more corporate side of Jolla more in my favor :D09:03
JaymzzSo hopefully by the next meeting i'll have more light to shed on these topics.09:03
piggzi cant believe the corporate customers arnt interested in a qt update?09:04
Nico[m]Thanks :309:04
JaymzzNico[m]: I understand :)09:04
riniguspiggz: they may have a reply09:04
Jaymzzpiggz: I didn't say that :D09:04
bionade24piggz: If the License changes are bad for them, they aren't09:05
piggztrue, so lets see what the issues are09:05
Nico[m]piggz: Maybe they are interested, but want other stuff prioritized first or have some issues with the license or whatever... corporations are weird!09:05
rinigusand follow closely nemo at 5.12 update09:05
julienbi would guess one of the main issues is with the qtpim infrastructure, which indead had some significant changes between 5.6 and 5.1209:06
JaymzzI obviously can't comment on any custimer's behalf. But what I said above was not that they are not interested. What I said that the corporate customers may not appreciate some info coming out in the public beforehand about the future plans etc. And that's completely normal in teh corporate world.09:06
Jaymzzcustomer's* rather.09:06
piggzgecko update would be a big benefit to the pinephone port, and may get us to be one of the shipped OSs ;)09:07
JaymzzBut we need to end the meeting, as it si lunch time in Finland and sailors are going to disappear from the chat :)09:07
JaymzzSo piggz I'll wait for your email09:07
flypigpiggz, that would be great.09:07
piggzit would, we just need to demo a good stable build09:07
piggzbrowser and calls are the blockers atm09:07
piggzthe pine64 ppl specfically mentioned the browser  not working09:08
Nico[m]piggz: The gecko update would be nice, but I wouldn't get my hopes up... Embedding gecko sucks :D09:08
piggzits not an update thats the issue, its the fact it doesnt wotrk with mesa09:09
Jaymzzpiggz: Nico[m] seriously we need to move on :)09:09
bionade24piggz: with mesa or with waylan09:09
Jaymzzlet's postpone this discussion to the next meeting. I'll make sure to dedicate a time to it.09:09
Jaymzz#topic next meeting time and date (5 min)09:10
ljoJaymzz: I understand09:10
Nico[m]Hm, I should just buy a pinephone and see, if I can fix some gecko stuff... :D09:10
piggzNico[m]: pls do :)09:10
Jaymzz#info Next meeting will be held on April 30th 2020 at 08:00 UTC09:10
piggzNico[m]: if you can fix it in the emulator, it will fix it for us too09:10
bionade24Nico[m]: You won't get it into germany, currently09:11
bionade24Nico[m]: Because it hasn't a CE Label09:11
JaymzzEnding the meeting. thanks all for attending! minutes will be sent as usual :)09:12
sailbot_Meeting ended Thu Apr 16 09:12:06 2020 UTC.09:12
sailbot_ Minutes:
sailbot_ Minutes (text):
sailbot_ Log:
Nico[m]piggz: I can't promise anything, I have a lot of stuff to do atm :D09:12
*** Jaymzz changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday Apr 30th 2020 at 08:00 UTC. Topics can be created here:"09:12
Nico[m]bionade24: That sucks ._.09:12
piggzNico[m]: bionade24: yeah, Nokius had to send his back becuase it wouldnt go thru customs09:13
bionade24Nico[m]: piggz: No you there is a market for smuggeling Pinephones ;)09:18
Nico[m]Seems like the UT version is getting a CE certification:
bionade24Nico[m]: Yes, they'll get it soon but it's not ready yet. We need to wait a bit.09:19
Nico[m]Yeah, but it should be ready, when the UBPorts version actually ships :D09:33

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