Thursday, 2020-05-14

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abranson#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 202008:01
sailbot_Meeting started Thu May 14 08:01:24 2020 UTC. The chair is abranson. Information about MeetBot at
sailbot_Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:01
*** sailbot_ changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 2020)"08:01
abranson#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
abransonI’m chairing this meeting today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.08:01
abranson#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info08:02
*** sailbot_ changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 2020)"08:02
abranson#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info08:02
*** sailbot_ changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 2020)"08:02
abranson#info Andrew Branson – Sailor @ Jolla08:02
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - Sailor @ Jolla08:02
ggabriel#info Gabriel - Community08:02
nobodyinperson#info nobodyinperson - Community08:02
Nico[m]#info Nico - community developer08:03
birdzhang#info BirdZhang  - Community08:03
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community08:03
JaKonator#info jakonator - community08:03
julienb#info Julienb, app developer08:04
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - Sailor @ Jolla08:07
abransonRight, we only have one question today, so off we go.08:07
abranson#topic More useful python3 modules support (Asked by birdzhang - 10 mins)08:08
*** sailbot_ changes topic to "More useful python3 modules support (Asked by birdzhang - 10 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 2020)"08:08
abranson#info We have a lot of apps developed by python3 now, and many apps only on
abranson#info Most of the reasons are rejected by harbour validator, or too painful to package python modules to our apps, as many useful modules are not pure python, like python3-pillow and python3-beautifulsoup4 etc..08:08
abranson#info Please make them official support.08:08
abransonbirdzhang: I have an answer here for you:08:09
abranson#info Allowing Python packages is a balancing act. If it's possible to do it in application's, always the better, but if some get used in many applications, take lot of disk space etc, it could be considered to be included.08:10
abranson#info Helps a lot also if the Python modules are used somewhere by Sailfish. At the moment these are not. Pillow has python2 packaging (python-imaging) but it hasn't been updated for some time and not entirely sure is it used anywhere.08:10
abranson#info So wouldn't like to promise much, but would be interested in what are the most commonly needed modules. FWIW beautifulsoup seems like pure python, noarch on my Fedora.08:10
birdzhangokay, i asked because planetos made a greate app
nobodyinpersonpython3-requests is also needed08:12
abransonthat's impressive08:12
flypigLooks really nice.08:12
birdzhangand it depend pillow, i packaged python3-pillow and put it on openrepos08:12
dcalisteMaybe the version in mer should be updated to python3 via an MR.08:13
Thaodan#info Thaodan #community  developer08:13
birdzhangit's a little outdate and when jolla upgrade python3 version, i need repackage it08:13
ThaodanTalking about python modules could you add pyqt?08:13
birdzhangThaodan: we use pyotherside08:13
nobodyinpersonbirdzhang: yes, manual repackaging is hard, I package matplotlib and it has a lot of dependencies...08:14
Thaodanbirdzhang: thats no replacement for pyqt08:14
pvuorelabirdzhang: how feasible would it be to include a private pillow instance inside the app?08:14
birdzhangnobodyinperson: yeah, and jolla upgraded from python3.6 to 3.7 and 3.8, we need repackage too08:14
birdzhangpvuorela: not tested, pillow is not pure python, maybe reject by harbour08:16
nobodyinpersonbirdzhang: not that an updates Python is bad, repackaging is just so much manual work. Of course we could automate it foe ourselves, but if the most important modules were in the official repositories it would help a lot.08:16
Thaodanbirdzhang: not as private lib, many apps do that like communi-sailfish08:16
birdzhangThaodan: i will take a look08:17
nobodyinpersonI have never uploaded to har our. Can one upload multiple RPMs at once? Or should one package the Python dependencies alongside the other sources? Because that would be really bad style...08:17
dcalistenobodyinperson, it seems to me that Harbour are one RPM only...08:18
birdzhangnobodyinperson: only noarch or armv7hl and i48608:18
Nico[m]Usually you upload one RPM with bundled dependencies to harbour08:18
flypigYou can't have dependencies in harbour on other things in harbour.08:18
flypigIf I recall correctly.08:18
ViGeflypig: That is correct08:18
ThaodanMany apps split noarch from arch components08:19
pvuorelabirdzhang: pure python part shouldn't per se matter.08:19
Thaodanthis should be supported08:19
nobodyinpersonOh... So if two apps bundle the same Python package, they either conflict or need to put the package under their own directory and mangle with import paths!?08:19
birdzhangnobodyinperson: imageworks is no harbour, but after install it also need download dependencies from openrepos08:19
pvuorelai'm speaking about own directories. apps should't include global python modules.08:19
nobodyinpersonpvuorela: really?08:20
abransonyes there are restrictions on where harbour rpms can write packages08:21
birdzhangyeah, like requests module08:21
abransongiving this one a bit longer08:21
abransonso this one could be updated with a PR if someone fancies a crack at it:
ThaodanWhich is kinda ok but apps usually install their modules to the python module part via the setuptools systems.08:22
nobodyinpersonabranson: Oh I didn't know that. Wow then that's messed up. Dependencies can recurse pretty deeply (e.g. matplotlib).08:22
abransonnobodyinperson: the alternative is packages clashing on providing the same files08:23
abransonyou only need to bundle the modules that aren't already available08:23
Thaodanabranson: or dependencies but if thats not what is wanted.08:24
nobodyinpersonabrason: Yes and for matplotlib pretty much none are :-)08:24
flypigabranson, I guess the problem with contributing to the official version is that you still can't have it as a dependency in harbour.08:24
abransonthe only way to do that is08:24
ThaodanThats one rescriction that is hard when using python like not having pyqt08:24
Thaodan*using python on SailfishOS08:25
abransonget a newer version in the repos, then it can be allowed in the harbour?08:25
abransonok, I'll move onto general discussion.08:27
abranson#topic General discussion (20 min)08:27
*** sailbot_ changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 2020)"08:27
nobodyinpersonIf it's that complicated, I guess it'll never be Harbour for me :-)08:28
Nico[m]I think I asked it a while ago, but could a repo with the public documentations be made public, so that people can contribute to it? I had some fixes and some docs for the background process API I wanted to contribute.08:29
nobodyinpersonNico[m]: Very nice idea!08:29
abransonnobodyinperson: not sure it's complicated. that pillow packaging is fairly simple.08:29
nobodyinpersonabranson: Yes I have packaged a lot of Python packages, but hard-packaging a specific version into an app contradicts the whole repository-philosophy for me...08:31
Nico[m]I think pillow is actually a very useful dependency, that could be used by a lot of packages, so providing that as an official module would make a lot of sense08:31
nobodyinpersonNico[m]: And requests! THE package to implement web APIs.08:31
ThaodanTalking about python, how is the move to python3 going?:p08:31
abransonnobodyinperson: that's not an app, that's just a package for pillow? this is a way to avoid packaging within the app08:31
piggzabranson: can we request from jolla mgmt that you are allowed to work on PP media/camera support? :D08:32
nobodyinpersonabranson: Sorry, Maybe I misunderstood.08:32
abransonpiggz: if you can find them, and if no-one else can help :D08:32
abransonnobodyinperson: the trouble is that even when these modules make it into the repo, it's no guarantee that anyone will keep them up to date08:33
nobodyinpersonabranson: Yes, same on OpenRepos... In the end you keep maintaining them yourself in your own repo...08:33
abransonI also see a 'pyver' variable in there that for some reason isn't included in the module path at the end. bet there's a lower maintenance package elsewhere08:34
Thaodanabranson: could they go in mer-contrib and then updated by the community?08:34
ThaodanIts a shame that python package system doesn't work like on other distros. packaging python apps is usually really easy.08:35
abransonThaodan: maybe, if these packages are on openrepos then that's possibly enough validation08:36
abransonhow does it usually work? i'm more of a Perl guy...08:36
nobodyinpersonabranson: You run bdist_rpm08:36
Thaodanwrite call it in the packaging systems and done. It handles even the creation executables08:36
dcalisteContributing MRs directly on mer-core, if the package already exists there is very easy. The issue is, will that package allowed in harbour, as already said.08:37
Thaodanabranson: %build:     python build; %install python install --skip-build -O1 --root="%{pkgdir}"08:37
abransonand so why doesn't that work on sailfish?08:38
nobodyinpersondcaliste: Sorry, I still don't understand. Does harbour reject RPMs containing specific Python packages, even if they're in a different directory?08:39
Thaodanbecause of pythotherside which uses python from qml and not the other way around where you call python than qml/qt and because you package extra modules into your own path. This is no issue until you use modules with native code.08:39
Thaodannobodyinperson: I was about allowing packages in habour that are in mer-core. So for example if python-billow gets to mer-core08:40
dcalistenobodyinperson: no this works.08:40
rinigusnobodyinperson: your app has to package python modules under /usr/share/appname. Make subfolder there and put packaged there. Then you have to ensure that python (via path) loads it from there.08:42
abransonbut only those modules that aren't already provided by the system08:42
nobodyinpersonrinigus: Makes sense. That's how QML apps work.08:42
nobodyinpersonabranson: Sure.08:43
nobodyinpersonAlright, different topic: Has anybody succeeded in hiding these ***** word suggestions? They take up a huge portion of the screen and I don't need them. The one patch doesn't work anymore. I tried looking thriugh the QML but it's a little abstract...08:45
abransonNico[m]: sorry, your question got swallowed. which documentation were you talking about? the sailfish wiki?08:45
flypignobodyinperson, you mean the suggestion bar above the keyboard?08:46
nobodyinpersonflypig: Exactly!08:46
nobodyinpersonflypig: And I don't like the split option :-)08:46
flypigIf you take them away, don't won't you lose cut&paste as well?08:47
nobodyinpersonThis patch only showed the bar if the clipboard had something.08:47
ggabrielnobodyinperson: you can switch split screen off from settings I think08:47
nobodyinpersonggabriel: Sure. But there you have the huge bar again :-)08:47
flypigYou can uninstall Predictive text input, but I guess that doesn't give you the space back.08:47
nobodyinpersonflypig: Ah that's a start. Which package?08:48
Nico[m]abranson: Mostly what's linked here:
Nico[m]Afaik it is a bit integrated with the rest of the website though08:48
flypignobodyinperson, I'm not sure, but using the Jolla store it's under "Jolla > Precictive text input"08:48
nobodyinpersonflypig: Hm, it's not even installed?08:49
abransonNico[m]: Hmm yes, that would be trickier than a wiki. maybe sending a diff to the dev list would be easier!08:50
flypigOh. You're still getting suggestions outside of the Contacts app?08:50
Nico[m]abranson: So the website is just plain html? Not generated from something?08:50
flypignobodyinperson, fwiw, it looks like the package is feature-xt9 and its dependencies.08:51
abransonNico[m]: that's going to be some sort of CMS, but I don't know myself. unlikely to be the sort of thing to allow public edits.08:52
ViGeNico[m]: The documentation is generated from the sources, but unfortunately those sources are not public :/08:52
Nico[m]Well, it would be awesome, if they could be public, since the docs are a bit lacking at times :D08:53
nobodyinpersonflypig: Uninstalled, had no dependencies, killed maliit-server, suggestions still there.08:54
flypignobodyinperson, maybe do `pkcon search name xt9` and check if there are other. They all come from the xt9 repo (`ssu lr`).08:55
nobodyinpersonabrason: I humbly state that I'd ppreciate a setting to hide the word suggestions. And the whole bar stop the keyboard if the clipboard is empty :-)08:55
ThaodanWhat about hiding the bar if there are no suggestions like when using apps like the browser?08:55
ggabrielnobodyinperson: perhaps the best way to achieve that is to open a tjc (or look for one that requests that)08:56
nobodyinpersonggabriel: Probably.08:56
nobodyinpersonNico[m]: #aggreed08:56
abransonNico[m]: definitely sounds more likely on the wiki. they're much more suited to collaboration.08:57
Nico[m]abranson: I don't think I ever used the wiki for API docs08:58
nobodyinpersonThaodan: #aggreed08:58
abransonNico[m]: it's probably not as good yet, but it is improving:
abransonnobodyinperson: here's one:
Nico[m]Yeah, it actually looks a lot better than what I remember!09:00
abransonit's probably a lot more up to date too09:00
Nico[m]What account do I need to make/propose edits there? Same as
nobodyinpersonflypig: It's jolla-xt9.09:01
flypigYou no longer have suggestions?09:01
abransonwell that's the problem - i don't think you can there yet either! but it's a lot more feasible to aim towards allowing that than it is for the main website docs :)09:01
Nico[m]Well, it doesn't have all the same APIs sadly, so it seems like you need to use both09:01
nobodyinpersonflypig: Thanks for the obvious suggestion :-)09:01
flypignobodyinperson, I don't think it will get you what you want, but if it's progress, then that's great :)09:02
Nico[m]abranson: Would be awesome, if there could be a way to contribute to a single source of API docs. If it is feasible, maybe you guys can think about it a bit? :309:02
abransonNico[m]: yeah it's a good idea09:03
abransonok, I should wrap this up now as we're over an hour. last orders gentlemen please.09:03
abransonnobodyinperson: gesundheit09:03
Nico[m]But you are working on a forum anyway, so maybe that's something fo after that :309:03
nobodyinpersonflypig: Yes, at least now I don't hit wrong suggestions :-)09:03
nobodyinpersonabranson: Yeah that was a fail sorry xD09:04
abransonthat's a point, it's probably very much within the scope of ViGe's forum09:04
Nico[m]Anyway, I think we can move on for now :309:05
abransonok, next meeting09:05
abranson#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)09:06
*** sailbot_ changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 14th May 2020)"09:06
abransonTwo weeks hence is 28th May. Is that a holiday or anything? hard to keep up with May this year09:07
flypigI think 28th is a holiday in Finland at least, yes.09:07
abransonwhich one's that?09:07
flypigOh, no scratch that. 21st is the holiday.09:08
ggabrielisn't any day a holiday these days? :) just after end of may bank holiday in the UK09:08
flypigSorry abranson.09:08
abransonflypig: no, thanks. now I see that ascension is 21st and whit is 31st09:08
abransonso 28th is probably a good one09:08
abransonany objections to that one?09:08
Nico[m]Sound good09:09
flypigNot here!09:09
abransonok, let's go with that then. James should hopefully be back next time! He was unavoidably detained today and sends his apologies09:09
ggabrielthx abranson09:10
Nico[m]Oh no, what did he do to get detained? ;p09:10
flypigthx abranson +109:10
ggabrielNico[m]: these days walking down the street without a "reason" is enough :P09:10
abranson#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th May at 0800 UTC hundred hours09:10
abransonggabriel: i'm sure it was nothing untoward09:10
ggabrielmine was a joke, sorry09:11
abransonHope you enjoyed this community meeting today. Please tap the appropriate emoticon below:09:11
abranson:D  :)  :|  :(  >:(09:11
sailbot_Meeting ended Thu May 14 09:11:48 2020 UTC.09:11
sailbot_ Minutes:
sailbot_ Minutes (text):
sailbot_ Log:
*** sailbot_ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday Apr 30th 2020 at 08:00 UTC. Topics can be created here:"09:11
Nico[m]Weren't we all joking?09:12
Nico[m]Anyway, thanks for the meeting :309:12
abransonwell I certainly was :D09:12
Nico[m]I tapped it, now my screen has fingerprints :(09:12
abransonha! got you!09:13
Thaodancreated a tjc as suggested:

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