Thursday, 2021-11-11

ExTechOpGood Morning, everyone!
flypigI would also say "good morning", but I'm scared of what might happen now.07:59
sledges#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 2021111108:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Nov 11 08:00:09 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111)"08:00
sledges#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:08:00
poetasterNote. Morning. Not necessarily good.08:00
sledgesI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and eleven.08:00
sledges#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111)"08:00
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla08:00
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä -- community08:00
poetaster#info Mark Washeim -- community?08:01
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar - sailfor @ Jolla08:01
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - sailor@Jolla08:02
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla08:03
flypigQuieter than usual...08:04
poetasterI'm waiting :)08:05
poetastersledges: we await diegoc?08:05
sledgeseveryone's busy updating 4.3.0 ? :)08:05
poetasterI'm still waiting for piggz (volla phone).08:05
poetasterI (still) don't have any official devices.08:06
sledgesdespite the pings, we won't go into the overtime today:))08:06
sledges#topic Native ProtonMail bridge integrated into SFOS (10 min -- asked by EA3ICN)08:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "Native ProtonMail bridge integrated into SFOS (10 min -- asked by EA3ICN) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111)"08:06
sledges#info <EA3ICN> It would be great to be able to access ProtonMail directly from SFOS. As an OS that frequently mentions privacy, it makes more sense to have access to ProtonMail or Tutanota than to only have Gmail and other less private services.08:06
sledges#info <Jolla> Support for secure, privacy-respecting messaging, email services like ProtonMail and Tutanota would indeed be welcome additions to Sailfish OS.08:07
sledges#info <Jolla> We can easily add pre-installed configs for to ease setting up of IMAP/POP email services, but sounds like both Tutanota and ProtonMail require some custom software to run.08:07
sledges#info <Jolla> In Tutanota case their OSS email client would need to be ported to Sailfish OS, and for ProtonMail their OSS ProtonMail Bridge (though limited to their paid customers).08:07
poetasterdiscussion was at:
sledges#info full discussion:08:08
flypigWhisperfish used to be written in Go, so Proton Bridge isn't out of the question.08:09
poetasterhydroxide runs as a service so it's a can of worms, but I'm biased.08:09
flypigddobrev seems to say hydroxide is unreliable.08:10
poetasterbymmoe mentions it working but not much more. Seems like the offical and hydroxide versions would need a more formal evaluation.08:11
flypigPersonally, I think it'd be great to see Proton Bridge available, it'd make a brilliant app, but probably needs quite a bit of work and commitment from someone.08:13
poetasterIt's not my place but this is complicated in any number of ways (keyring integration, gnomepg). It sounds like it needs someone willing to invest.08:13
abrI've got to agree with that last post. Running your own mail server is far more secure, and probably less work. :)08:14
poetasterYo! but some would claim I'm a pervert.08:14
ThaodanI don't think adding those kind of protocols into the mix helps any one. The ressources are stretched thin. Running the bridge is a stop gap.08:14
sledges1min left08:15
poetasterSo, dedicated app is your suggestion. flypig, would that be the direction or is integration with existing mail important?08:15
ThaodanThere would to be work needed into a messaging framework plugin similar how eas is done.08:15
poetasterok. keyword mf plugin08:16
flypigPersonally, I think the bridge is the easiest route to get ProtonMail, much easier than a plugin or anything else.08:16
ThaodanYeah true08:17
poetasterok, by me, but I don't think I'd want it running on my phone :)08:17
EA3ICNAnd would the bridge be already included with the phone?08:17
EA3ICNAs in something that appears in the accounts section08:18
flypigI've not looked into how it works, but I think it's intended to be run on your phone.08:18
ThaodanThe bridge is like bitlbee but for email08:18
Thaodanso yes08:18
sledgesthe question is would jolla pre-ship it or users sideloading it08:18
sledgesalso community effort vs jolla's08:18
ThaodanI don't think thats worth it, it should be in the Jolla store download but not preload.08:19
flypigI don't really see any benefit to Jolla shipping it directly, but maybe I'm missing something.08:19
flypigThaodan, yeah, agreed.08:19
abrProbably needs updating more often than SFOS releases too08:19
poetasterflypig: ease of use/installation/integration are arguments for jolla shipping.08:19
sledgesso a community user submits an app to the store? which at the same time adds  enablers in the settings | accounts08:19
flypigsledges, right, it could be like that.08:19
sledgessounds like api extension (enable protonmail entry in "add account" list)08:20
abrbut I don't think either accounts plugins nor daemons are currently allowed in the store08:20
sledgesfor harbour08:20
EA3ICNsledges: Sorry, I was replying to this, but mobile data just randomly cut out on Element Android on Xperia 10 ii 4.2 😅08:20
flypigpoetaster, yes, that's certainly true. But personally, I think you get more flexibility from separating them.08:20
sledgesEA3ICN: what a way to submit bug report:))08:20
EA3ICNHehehe sorry08:20
poetasterflypig: absolutely. I was just being positive.08:20
Thaodanfyi: That's what can be used to extend jolla email08:21
sledgesabr: true too, well hopefully sadboxing will pave some way for daemons(?)08:21
abrlet's hope so08:21
sledgestime to move it08:21
sledges#topic Uploading 4.2 aarch64 rpms blocks older releases? (10 min -- asked by poetaster)08:21
*** sailbot changes topic to "Uploading 4.2 aarch64 rpms blocks older releases? (10 min -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111)"08:21
sledges#info <poetaster> In discussion at08:21
EA3ICNThanks for the answers!! 😄08:21
sledges#info <poetaster> @slava mentioned that uploading 4.2 aarch64 causes older target's (3.4 arm 32 bit) to become unavailable as 4.2 becomes a requirement for all?08:22
sledges#info <poetaster> He put it this way: "Jolla Store client stops showing it on 2.x and 3.x. devices if I drop in aarch64 rpm. Because the whole thing starts to "require" 4.x"08:22
sledges#info <Jolla> Unfortunately Harbour lacks a way to set supported version per RPM. Overall we of course wish that people would run Sailfish OS 4.x with the latest supported functionality, bug and security (CVE) fixes.08:22
poetasterMy cautious approach has been to target 3.4 for arm32 and x86 and 4.2 for aarch64. that works with harbour.08:23
sledgesthat's a nice workaround, maybe needs to be placed out as a banner in Harbour? cc ViGe08:24
poetasterIt would abviously also help to get chum builds harbour compatible :)08:25
jpetrellthe harbour rpm upload errors could definitely be improved, can imagine devs getting confused08:25
flypigI suppose it's possible to submit two apps with different names.08:26
poetasterI was also uncertain if it effects noarch builds?08:26
poetasterthat would be absurd (on the face of it)08:26
ViGeIf there are confusing error messages, please file bugs so they can be fixed08:26
flypigpoetaster, yes, agreed, it wouldn't be very nice.08:26
poetasterI believe I was confused (will post) and slava was irritated about things becoming invisible that clearly could be installed.08:27
poetasterare noarch rpms excluded from the major version exclusion?08:27
jpetrellI don't think so08:28
flypigAre your webview apps noarch poetaster?08:28
poetastershould be, but ... I think I was running as an automaton when I published.08:29
ViGeWhat do you mean by "major version exclusion"? If you publish a noarch app which requires sailfish os >= 1.0 it is installable on all devices. If it requires >= 4.0 it won't be installable on devices running old version.08:29
poetasterOk. do you mean: sailfishapp >=?08:30
poetasterflypig: mahjong is >= 4.x by virtue of the new component08:31
flypigThat makes sense. So the question is, if I've understood correctly, if there's no aarch64 build (because it's all noaarch), could you also have a separate rpm the store for SFOS 3.4 at the same time.08:33
sledges#info a workaround to the main topic would be to compile arm 32 bit with a 3.4 target and the aarch64 with a 4.2 target:08:33
poetasterthat's the workaround, but shouldn't be needed for noarch, or?08:34
sledges#info ^ not required for noarch packages08:34
poetasterI have a couple of candidates for noarch testing so I guess I'll publish one :) My other cases for harbour I'll continue to use the build targets.08:35
flypigLooking forward to seeing them :)08:36
poetasterThere are even collaborators!08:36
flypigOooh :)08:36
sledgesmoving on? 10 mins on the dot:)08:36
poetasterI'm clarified right up.08:36
sledges#topic General discussion (20 min)08:36
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111)"08:36
sledgeswow a blast from the past o/ cxl00008:37
poetasterI hate being the 'too think' to appreciate the blast guy.08:38
sledgesthey were a porter of Google Nexus 7 (deb) eons ago08:39
poetasterah! thanks.08:39
poetastera question: where the allowed libs/depends altered for the 4.3 release ?08:40
EA3ICNIs there any way to compress voice recorder .wav files? I need to email a few of them but they're massive 😓08:41
sledgespoetaster: a tell from here perhaps ?08:41
thilo[m]Is there anything i can do to help with the android connectivity issues? Any pointers on how lxc is connected?08:41
Cy8aer[m]EA3ICN: sox?08:41
poetasterIEA3ICN: I have to check but I believe Audioworks can open wav and save to mp3. But there are better approaches08:42
poetastersledges: thanks!08:42
sledgesthilo[m]: tried 4.3.0 ?08:42
thilo[m]Yes, same issues08:43
EA3ICNAh cool! Thanks for the recommendations08:43
sledgesthilo[m]: connectivity lost after coming back to the wlan coverage zone? or others?08:44
thilo[m]Switching between wifi and cellular kills the connection sometimes. It seemed better directly after the update08:44
sledgesmdata->wlan has been fixed in my usecases08:44
sledgeswith wlan->mdata i never seen problems08:44
thilo[m]It looked like i could fix the issue with the flightmode trick, but since the upgrade i had to restart android twice08:45
thilo[m]So its basically the same situation as before08:46
thilo[m]Xperia xa208:46
sledgesthilo[m]: so which way does it break for you? leaving the wlan coverage, or entering it (it's an important piece of info;)08:46
thilo[m]Entering it08:46
thilo[m]And sometimes after entering and leaving it does not recover08:47
flypigEA3ICN, if you're willing to delve into the crazy command line options, you can probably compress it on-device using ffmpeg.08:48
sledgesthe only differences left vs my device in this might be which sim slot your mobile data is in, technology switched from/to (4/3/2G) and which operator/country (if you're happy to disclose)08:48
sledgesthilo[m]: ^08:48
poetasterEA3ICN: in openrepos, I belive, there is the lame pkg for compressing/reading mp308:48
thilo[m]Its eplus/o2 germany, singlesim08:49
poetasterflypig: +1 ffmpeg :) can we allow depends please ;)08:49
thilo[m]4g usually08:49
flypigEA3ICN, for ffmpeg:
flypigpoetaster, yeah, I'd like that too!08:49
sledgesok thanks for that thilo[m]. also is it 100% of cases that loose connectivity when entering wlan ?08:50
abrthilo[m]: it's a known issue and being worked on. unfortunately it seems to be entwined in the code that fakes the network connection in Android, so there's not much you can help with I'm afraid08:50
thilo[m]Can i collect logs on that somehow? Might help more than my unreliable memory08:50
sledgesabr: then how come it fixed for me just fine?:))08:50
abrin the code at least. logs are great!08:50
EA3ICNWill give ffmpeg a go. Again, thank you very much for the help!08:50
fifr_thilo[m]: I have the same issue, so it's not only you ;)08:51
abrsledges: probably brexit :D08:51
thilo[m]fifr_: phew ;)08:51
sledgesone good thing:))08:51
poetasterBrexit, of course! Boris Johnson stole my wifi!08:51
thilo[m]abr: what logs do i collect?08:51
*** fifr_ is now known as fifr08:51
sledgesthilo[m]: replace sh with logcat08:52
thilo[m]Kk, ty08:52
sledgesdid 4.3.0 help with connectivity issues to anyone else at all that are in the continental EUrope? ;P08:53
thilo[m]abr: other issue: were my qtmultimedia bugs noticed? Because I could elaborate on them if needed08:53
poetasterthilo: which qtmultimedia bugs?08:53
poetasterthilo: I had two bugs go away as of 4.x (audio player component that had 3.4 problems works as expected 4.2)08:54
thilo[m]These ones:
thilo[m]or one, i accidentally reported it twice in 4 months ;)08:55
sledges#info discussing android connectivity still dropping sometimes after entering into wlan coverage area. seems reaching affinity with:08:55
poetasterthilo: thanks.08:56
thilo[m]If you go the naive approach and simply try to bind variables from qml you get unstable results08:56
thilo[m]I saw that for playback rate duration and position08:56
thilo[m]I guess there is some situation where it does not update a binding/ the bindings08:57
poetasterthilo: Ok, I'm working in that domain so I'll see if I can weigh in.08:57
thilo[m]ah, nice. Sledges(I think) pointed me to abr last time08:57
thilo[m]I can try to build you more examples if you ask on the forum, if you want. I just didnt knew if it is worth the time08:58
sledgesnice one, poetaster do you want logs of the meeting where this was discussed in detail?08:58
poetastersledges: yes please.08:58
abrthilo[m]: sorry yes, I got as far as it not being anything to do with the playback speed change. I guess it's some bug internal to qtmm.08:59
thilo[m]okay, so this was noticed? nice. You should indicate that on the forum, because its a bit strange to submit a bug and get no response. Especially if you put work in it08:59
thilo[m]But I am glad there are these meetings where you can communicate these things directly ;)09:00
poetasterI should probably make formal featrue requests for require ffmpg-tools and python3-imaging.09:01
poetasterthilo: did you try another player that can switch between url/local file. I usually use LLsvplayer09:02
thilo[m]I am off for now, thanks for your nice responses :) have a nice day/night09:02
sledgespoetaster: ah looks like playbackrate was already addressed, but here's a brief mention about the bindings:
ExTechOpBack in the day, someone ported mosh onto Sailfish, but I don't think it's available for current versions. Anyone feel like making it available again?09:02
thilo[m]poetaster: I dont know, I only encuntered this in podcast so far09:03
poetasterthilo: ok. I'll check.09:03
sledgesthilo[m]: you can quote abr in the forum post now ;P09:03
poetasterExTechOp: is there a repo? I'll add it to :
thilo[m]I'll be reachable in matrix or forum, bye ;)09:04
sledgesif only this didn't crash :}
sledgeswhen you click on mosh09:05
poetastersledges: maybe I can get 3.4 working. on the other hand, the sfos 5.1 will appear ;)09:05
sledgesoh lol it didn't crash 2nd time round!09:06
poetasterI'm there :)09:06
ExTechOpI could only find a reference to an old mosh repo, not the repo itself
sledgesExTechOp: since community OBS search function is broken, i had to do some duckduckgo-fu :)09:07
poetasterIt's clear nothing provides sb2-tools-armv7hl-dependency-infject :)09:07
sledgesthat's not .spec specific, just try to whack in a bit more modern target and build against that09:08
sledgeslooks like we can move on09:10
sledges#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)09:10
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 20211111)"09:10
ExTechOpBy the way, is there any word on a easier user-configurable keyboard layouts?09:10
poetasterthanks all, I'm off!09:10
sledgesit's few seconds away from 2021-11-11 11:11:11 !09:10
sledgesProposing Thursday 25th November at 8am UTC09:10
sledgesExTechOp: might be some improvements on the way09:11
sledges#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 25th November 2021 at 8:00am UTC:  2021-11-25T08Z09:11
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Nov 11 09:11:12 2021 UTC.09:11
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 11th November 2021 at 8:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"09:11
ExTechOpThanks everyone!09:11
sledgesended quickly because last  time i wrote09:11
sledgesHope to finish that meeting at 2021-11-11 11:11:11 Finnish timezone ;)09:11
sledgeswas 1 sec too late :D09:11
flypigToo bad, but close enough ;)09:12
sledgeswill try again in a decade ;)09:12
ExTechOpBut will our meeting last until 12:12:12 ?09:12
sledgesExTechOp: by improvements i meant on spacebar width btw09:13
ExTechOpsledges Thanks, I got that.09:13
sledgesmaybe pre-xmas meeting could end at 2021-12-21 12:21:1209:14
poetastersledges. then we should start an hour later ;)09:15
sledgesor have more topics ;)09:16
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 25th November 2021 at 8:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"09:18

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