Thursday, 2022-08-18

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o sailbot06:42
flypigGood morning everyone!07:00
flypig#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 202207:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Aug 18 07:00:40 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"07:00
flypig#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:00
flypigI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and no unauthorised use of the flux capacitor.07:00
flypig#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:01
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"07:01
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ Jolla07:01
thilo[m]#info thigg - community dev07:01
flypigI'm glad you're here thilo[m], for a second I thought I might be on my own!07:02
thilo[m]Good $timeOfDay07:02
JacekJagosz[m]#info Jacek Jagosz - long time SFOS user, maintainer for linux distribution Solus07:02
Sailor965_#ingo pherjung - community07:02
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar  - Sailor @ Jolla07:02
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva - privateer for Jolla, broke speed limit only once (when started off), reading said 88mph07:02
thilo[m]:D i didn't want to miss the oppertunity to test hydrogen on my phone ;)07:03
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - Sailor @ Jolla07:03
flypigthilo[m], not a bad reason at all :)07:04
thilo[m]I mean, I maintain this app but mostly use element07:04
Chris[m]123#info ahappyhuman ­— community07:04
sebix[m]#info sebix - community07:04
flypigOh, we have a good number today, really great!07:04
flypigCan someone figure out the score?07:05
flypigWhile we get started with the questions. We actually first have a very quick update on a question from the last meeting.07:05
flypig#topic Harbor API progress (in special QtLocation) (2 mins -- asked by fridlmue)07:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "Harbor API progress (in special QtLocation) (2 mins -- asked by fridlmue) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"07:05
flypig#info This is a quick update on fridlmue's topic from the last meeting, since we received a few more details.07:06
flypig#info <Jolla> We are working to add as many APIs to Harbour as possible in the 4.5.0 release, but we aren't promising anything in particular.07:06
flypig#info <Jolla> It's highly likely that at least Sailfish Secrets will be allowed. We don't yet have any plans we can share with regards to QtLocation, so the previous advice about this stands.07:06
thilo[m]3 vs 307:06
flypigThanks thilo[m] :) Score draw.07:06
flypigThat was just an update since there was new info to share, we can go straight on to the first question from JacekJagosz[m].07:07
flypig#topic Specify which is the officially supported Android 11 version ID for X10 III (10 minutes -- asked by Jacek Jagosz)07:07
*** sailbot changes topic to "Specify which is the officially supported Android 11 version ID for X10 III (10 minutes -- asked by Jacek Jagosz) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"07:07
flypig#info <Jacek Jagosz> In my opinion the instructions are unclear which version ID users should be on when installing SFOS, and there is a ton of conflicting information.07:07
flypig#info <Jacek Jagosz> Install guide mentions just Android 11.07:07
flypig#info <Jacek Jagosz> Flashing guide mentions 62.0.A.3.109.07:07
flypig#info <Jacek Jagosz> Then users have been recommending updating to the newest possible A11 version - 62.0.A.9.11, first flashing using EMMA and then using OTA.07:07
flypig#info <Jacek Jagosz> You can even flash directly to that version using different tools and firmware provided by someone. Oh, and some people flashed from Android 12...07:07
flypig#info <Jacek Jagosz> Could you please state the version number you think is the least problematic, or most well tested? Now you have people using 3-4 different versions, and it definitely makes bug tracking really complicated.07:08
flypigThat's the question, here's the prepared answer.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> Thanks for your question Jacek. The situation has been changing and we appreciate this can make the most recent advice hard to pin down.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> The Sailfish OS development for the Xperia 10 III was mostly undertaken on Android 11. We have subsequently also tested it on Android 12.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> Our recommendation is to upgrade your phone to the latest version of Android 11 before installing Sailfish OS. However, if you have already upgraded to Android 12, then we don't recommend reflashing back to Android 11 before installing Sailfish OS.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> If you have suggestions for how to make the installation guide clearer then we would welcome the input.07:08
flypigWould you like to add anything JacekJagosz[m]?07:08
JacekJagosz[m]Nowhere in Jolla's guide it was mentioned that it should be the latest Android 1107:09
JacekJagosz[m]Simply Android 11. So it would be great if this one sentence could be added to the official guide07:10
flypigYes, that's a simple change which makes things clearer.07:10
JacekJagosz[m]Here nothing about updating is mentioned: write /sys/module/lowmemorykiller/parameters/minfree "15360,19200,23040,26880,34415,43737"07:10
JacekJagosz[m]Sorry, wrong paste:
JacekJagosz[m]And here in flashing guide there is a specific release mentioned, but it is not the newest, but 3 releases from the newest:
JacekJagosz[m]I suggest on both sites one sentence could be added, to use OTA to update to newest Android 11 version, that is all I am asking07:12
flypigIt does state that "anything after the letter A may vary and does not matter in this context"07:12
ThaodanI agree.07:13
ThaodanBut things like this can happen to anyone, sometimes we miss details :)07:13
JacekJagosz[m]As a user I updated to the number that was exactly stated, if it didn't matter I thought I can stay on older version07:13
JacekJagosz[m]I am just suggesting to make things clearer07:14
flypigThat's also true. We don't ask users to reflash their devices every time Sony release a new update, so older versions are fine too.07:14
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rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen - Sailor @ Jolla07:15
flypigBut that's understood JacekJagosz[m], we'll discuss this internally and then perhaps I can message you on the forum for your feedback?07:15
flypigWe want it to be as clear as possible.07:15
JacekJagosz[m]flypig: Thank you a lot07:15
ThaodanJacekJagosz[m]: Do you think the sentence above the table is not clear enough?07:15
ExTechOp(pardon for late arrival, #info Otto Mäkelä, community)07:16
ThaodanIn cases were the minor version matters we specify it on the table with an asterisk07:16
ThaodanExTechOp: You have to prefix your message with #info07:17
JacekJagosz[m]Thaodan: The sentence is clear, I read it when first installing. I would just advice to also add a sentence where you suggest newest possible version of Android 1107:17
ExTechOpThaodan I wasn't sure would my #info become a part of the current topic or the roll call07:17
flypigFor the minutes:07:18
flypig#info <JacekJagosz[m]> "I suggest on both sites one sentence could be added, to use OTA to update to newest Android 11 version, that is all I am asking"07:18
flypig1 more minute on this topic.07:18
flypigJacekJagosz[m], are we okay to move on to the next question?07:19
ThaodanJacekJagosz[m]: As said it doesn't matter usually and if it matters it's stated.07:19
JacekJagosz[m]Yes, all done from my side07:20
flypigThansk JacekJagosz[m].07:21
flypig#topic Is there a general cause to the various different mobile-data bugs with 10 III devices? (10m -- asked by PeegeeTips)07:21
*** sailbot changes topic to "Is there a general cause to the various different mobile-data bugs with 10 III devices? (10m -- asked by PeegeeTips) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"07:21
flypig#info <PeegeeTips> There are several bugs on the forum that look like they might be related.07:21
flypig#info <PeegeeTips> 1. Xperia 10 iii can't enable mobile data on Talkmobile (UK):07:21
flypig#info <PeegeeTips> 2. No IPv4 mobile data connection with MNO Telekom Deutschland possible:07:21
flypig#info <PeegeeTips> 3. Mobile data (IPv6) connection used even though a WLAN connection (IPv4) is active:07:21
flypigHere is our prepared answer:07:22
flypig#info <Jolla> There have been a number of changes to the networking stack recently that could be related to the first two. Some users were experiencing mobile data connections when the data access point protocol was set to Dual:07:22
flypig#info <Jolla> This was carrier specific, with a fix being rolled out in Sailfish OS
flypig#info <Jolla> For issue 3, a fix was introduced to work around the fact that VoLTE can create new IPv6 interfaces with potentially broken routing data (this is carrier dependent). This fix was rolled out in Sailfish OS
flypig#info <Jolla> Unfortunately it’s impossible to say whether the three are related without further investigation. We already had an internal issue lodged for issue 3 which has been looked into, and we also now have internal issues for the other two as well.07:22
flypig#info <Jolla> The discussion in the forum is already quite comprehensive and very helpful, but as always any further detail you can add there is also appreciated.07:23
flypigIs PeegeeTips here today? Any other comments welcome.07:23
ExTechOpI believe this is kinda related to the long-standing issue of SFOS being quite bad at switching networks (mobile/wifi/mobile), specially for Android clients07:24
flypigYeah. Over the years we've squashed many bugs related to this (both for Android App Support and SFOS generally), but issues do arise.07:26
sledgessuggestion to use Ofono Logger when mobile data cannot be enabled at all (regardless of wlan state etc) and send logs (app has disclaimer that some information may be private, such as phone numbers, but emailing it straight to monich has been revoked due to in-app sharing broken)07:28
flypigsledges, just to clarify, what should users do with the logs then?07:30
flypigAnd would you add a comment on this to the minutes please sledges?07:31
flypig2 more mins on this topic.07:32
sledgesensure there are no phone numbers in the logs (simply do not make/receive phonecalls during log grab); I believe sending them to jolla customer care is now the best bet, where data protection is ensured07:33
flypigGreat, thank you sledges.07:33
sledges#info for mobile data issues please grab logs via Ofono Logger:07:34
flypigPerfect, thank you.07:34
sledges#info ensure no phonecalls made/received during the session, then provide the tarball to jolla customer care07:34
sledgessadly logger is no longer in Jolla Store, i bet it's sandboxing/in-app sharing issues etc07:35
Thaodan#info Ofono Logger is also available in chum.07:36
flypigOkay, thanks for the helpful info. It's a shame PeegeeTips isn't here to comment, but hopefully this will be helpful to them.07:37
flypigWe hit time, so next question.07:37
flypig#topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla)07:37
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"07:37
flypig#info <Mohjive> Open PR URL:
flypigWe had this submitted. Is Mohjive here to give some context?07:38
flypigThaodan, sledges, you are the main protagonists on this PR. Could you give us some info on the situation with it please?07:39
sledgestechnical debt, we would need to update repos+re-test of all devices for any breakages07:40
sledgesif there is capacity to do integration, this change is more than welcome07:40
ThaodanI agree with sledges however it should not be needed anymore for recent devices having a recovery partition.07:41
flypigIt's Xperia 10 specific?07:41
ThaodanAll Sony devices starting with Xperia 1/Xperia 10 II have a recovery partition again, however we didn't test that far enough so far.07:41
ThaodanI did some tests but didn't come far enough.07:42
ThaodanIt is still work to work on embedded recovery for those devices that don't support a recovery partition.07:42
flypigIs there any way the community could help with that testing?07:42
flypigWelcome dr_Gogeta86_web.07:43
dr_Gogeta86_websorry to be a bit late in the party07:43
dr_Gogeta86_web*at the07:43
flypigCould you #info yourself for the minutes please dr_Gogeta86_web?07:43
ThaodanInitrd could use some rework to use systemd earlier or allow for luks on system partion.07:43
dr_Gogeta86_web#info dr_gogeta86 retired porter ... avid SFOS user07:43
ThaodanFlypig: If a community member is a porter or wants to delve into it they can test it by building droid-hal and droid-hal-img-boot for their device with the PR applied.07:44
flypigThanks Thaodan. I think that could be something for the minutes too, please.07:45
Thaodan#info Flypig: If a community member is a porter or wants to delve into it they can test it by building droid-hal and droid-hal-img-boot for their device with the PR applied.07:45
mohjivehello, see that I joined right on time (or just a little bit late) :)07:45
Thaodan#info To enable embedded recovery this patch has to applied (or recreated) for the specific devices:
flypigAh, good that you're here mohjive (if you could #info yourself for the minutes, that'd be great too).07:46
Thaodan#info For the Xperia XA2 the patch can simply be rebased.07:46
Thaodan#Info I'll write a summary under the hybris-initrd PR on how this PR can be used, what has to be done.07:47
flypigThanks Thaodan, I think that'd be helpful.07:47
mohjive#info Mohjive - long time Sailfish user, Linux nerd07:47
flypigThanks mohjive!07:47
flypigWe have a couple more mins on open PRs. mohjive would you like to add anything? Or if anyone has other PRs they'd like to raise?07:47
dr_Gogeta86I've finally acquired a Sony 10ii ... but is one of them with broken/corrupted TA partition ... which result in missing audio ...07:48
dr_Gogeta86the strange thing works with stock android ( despite the Calibration on TA is 0x00 0x00 0x00 ) ... but on sailfish broke pulseaudio and droid driver ... happened few times so far on also on forum ... but nobody investigated further and reflashed on android07:50
mohjive@flypig, As you know I stumbled on broken recovery mode, and I was hoping that getting this PR in would stabilize the development07:50
mohjiveit was in this context I found the PR07:51
Chris[m]123I was wondering if anyone had tested
Thaodanmohjive: Broken how? We have to separate issues, one is the need to flash recovery and the other is usb-network not working, both are unrelated!07:52
flypig#info The context of mohjive raising this PR:07:52
mohjive@Thaodan I cannot boot the recovery image after flashing it07:52
flypigIs that your PR Chris[m]123?07:54
Chris[m]123Yes, it is indeed. While nothing seems to crash, it seems to misbehave when apps are launched from the home screen with the app booster07:55
flypigI'll add another 5 minutes to this topic for discussion.07:55
Thaodanmohjive: the hybris-initrd PR is unrelated to your issue.07:55
dr_Gogeta86flypig, can I continue to explain the problem ?07:56
flypigdr_Gogeta86, sorry, I should have mentioned, but would you mind pausing until the General discussion?07:56
flypigThanks... not too long to wait I think.07:57
mohjiveThaodan: ok, that's unfortunate (for me)07:57
flypigChris[m]123, I'd need to look through our bug tracker, but I think probably we've not had a chance to test it.07:58
Chris[m]123So for me the pull request at least doesn't crash and my small test suite that I wrote works, but only if apps are launched from the command line and not through the home screen or with the booster. I added that as a comment to the PR a few minutes ago, because it feels like the PR shouldn't be merged in this state.07:59
flypigThat's useful info, thank you Chris[m]123. I did a cursory check and didn't find anything on our bug tracker, so I'll create an issue for it.08:00
Thaodan#info I added an explanation on how the embedded recovery for hybris-initrd  should be used here:08:01
Chris[m]123I'm also wondering if other app developers have encountered the issue with the SSL deadlock that I was encountering, as that was the motivation for creating this PR.08:01
flypig#info Chris[m]123 has tested the qtnetwork PR and not found issues with it, so it should be in a good state to merge.08:02
Chris[m]123Wait, that's wrong08:02
sailbotRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x7f23b9d976d8>08:02
Chris[m]123It has issues with the booster, but it works when launching apps without the booster08:02
flypigAh, I misunderstood. Would you formulate something for the minutes please?08:03
Chris[m]123When launching through the booster, it stops reporting any SSL errors which is problematic.08:03
Chris[m]123I'll try formulating something for the minutes, please give me a minute ;)08:03
flypigSure, no worries. Thank you.08:04
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Chris[m]123Chris[m]123 has tested the qtnetwork PR and has found an issue with it in combination with the booster, so it shouldn't be merged yet. He would like if someone could help understanding why it doesn't work with the booster, as he doesn't know how to debug this issue with the booster.08:06
Chris[m]123Something like that?08:06
Chris[m]123But prefixed with #info?08:06
flypigYes, perfect. Please prefix it.08:07
ThaodanChris[m]123: Yes but you can also use I08:07
Chris[m]123#info Chris[m]123 has tested the qtnetwork PR and has found an issue with it in combination with the booster, so it shouldn't be merged yet. He would like if someone could help understanding why it doesn't work with the booster, as he doesn't know how to debug this issue with the booster.08:07
dr_gogeta86cargo build08:07
flypigChris[m]123, is your PR a backport from Qt 5.12? We have to be careful with licences.08:07
ThaodanYour name is prefixed in front of info08:07
Chris[m]123Ah, that makes sense. I'll try it again08:07
flypigWere you planning to re-add your comment for the logs Chris[m]123?08:11
Chris[m]123flypig: It is indeed a backport. I have, as recommended by I believe dcaliste, read through the PR and made some notes on what the issue was for myself and an overview of how it was solved. I used that information for writing it from scratch. I didn't copy code as far as I was aware of.08:11
Chris[m]123#info I have tested the qtnetwork PR and have found an issue with it in combination with the booster, so it shouldn't be merged yet. I would like if someone could help understanding why it doesn't work with the booster, as I don't know how to debug this issue with the booster.08:11
flypigGreat, thank you :)08:11
flypigWe should move on as we're over time on the PRs. Thanks for the good discussion, let's move to General Discussion and have some more.08:12
flypig#topic General discussion (20 min)08:12
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"08:12
flypigdr_gogeta86, do feel free to continue.08:13
Chris[m]123Sorry for interrupting you :)08:13
dr_gogeta86ok  ... back on track I've finally acquired a Sony 10ii ... (was a refurbished one )08:13
dr_gogeta86works fine with stock android ... but with SFOS no audio ... the culprit is the TA partition corruped  ( 07-08 07:12:31.348  7736  7736 I audio_hw_sony_cirrus_playback: get_ta_array: Read TA unit 4702 (size=0) values: 0x0 0x0 0x0 0x008:15
dr_gogeta86 ) ... many user got the same issue ... but then flashed back to android08:15
dr_gogeta86also documented here
flypigCongrats on your new phone dr_gogeta8608:16
Thaodandr_gogeta86: please link the forum post first next time08:16
ThaodanWe have looked into this but didn't have any results so far.08:17
dr_gogeta86I think the only solution is to flash values on TA partition08:19
flypigSo you were able to reflash Android, then SFOS again, to fix the issue?08:19
dr_gogeta86is a kind of surgery ... but this is how the CAF open driver works ... apparently Stock driver ... aren't affected08:19
ThaodanWe have some ideas but nothing concrete, we don't exactly know how far the values form the TA values are used.08:19
dr_gogeta86same issue reflashing08:19
ThaodanI suggest to ask the question in the next meeting to we can prepare an answer for you.08:20
dr_gogeta86I hope to fix first :-D08:20
thilo[m]I am currently working on building a sfos application with a (compiled to native with graalvm) java backend. Is anyone interested in the topic?08:20
flypigI'm fascinated to hear thilo[m] how the integration from Java works (and what your app is)08:22
ThaodanIMHO: Java on SailfishOS is cursed, we are lucky for not having it. But is is interesting.08:22
Thaodan*it is.08:22
flypigdr_gogeta86, will you come back to us at the next meeting with an update?08:22
thilo[m]its going to be a little game adapted from the android app open flood. Its growing here:
flypigAre you calling Qt methods from Java?08:23
flypigOr do you essentially have a canvas?08:24
thilo[m]grallvm is a project that compiles java applications to a minimal native image with a minimal runtime enviroment. In my case, I compile a shared library (.so) and talk to the api of the native lib by putting everything into flatbuffers. The interface to the shared lib is connected to the c++ part of the app08:24
thilo[m]the c++ part and the qml part are a normal qt app08:25
thilo[m]it might be possible to do the qt part in java as well, but thats going to be a bit complicated, and I am not sure graal can compile that without additional configuration08:25
thilo[m]currently it looks like the overhead is way smaller than python. The resulting binaries are around 12 mb and that should also be the memory footprint of the thing08:26
flypigFlatbuffers being essentially cross-language serialised structures?08:26
ExTechOpWould anyone be interested in making a mosh port into Chum?08:27
thilo[m]yes. I started with json, but I went a bit wild on performance. I wanted to see whats possible and the overhead of flatbuffers and io performance is way higher08:27
thilo[m]s/overhead/serialized size/08:28
flypigIt sounds like an amazing approach thilo[m]. Would you be up for sharing your experiences in the newsletter?08:29
flypigExTechOp, do you have some feel for how much work would be involved?08:29
thilo[m]i'd love to08:30
thilo[m]I think I can also publish the game by that time08:30
flypigthilo[m], ah! Superb! Then we should discuss it further :)08:31
thilo[m]yes, let me know08:31
flypigIs the app already compilable and runnable?08:31
ExTechOpUnfortunately no, I just know udp-based mosh would be very nice for connections where connectivity may be an issue. I use it all the time on my other devices. There is a port, but it's kinda old.08:31
thilo[m]I'll put the build on github08:32
flypigthilo[m], great, I'll have to try building it (I may need your guidance on that too...).08:32
thilo[m]flypig: actually there is already a build on github.08:32
thilo[m]yes, building is a bit complicated, but I can help you08:33
flypigExTechOp, I agree, it's an obvious good choice for a mobile device.08:33
flypigthilo[m], that doesn't surprise me, but thanks, I'll seek your advice :)08:33
dr_gogeta86@flypig, I hope ...08:33
flypigdr_gogeta86, please do, even if it's to let us know you're still looking into it :)08:34
flypigOkay, we have hit time I'm afraid.08:35
flypig2 mins for any final comments or additions to the minutes.08:35
thilo[m]additional comment: thanks for chairing today, flypig ;)08:36
flypigThanks thilo[m] :)08:36
flypigAnd I'll take the opportunity to thank the Bug Coordination Team for their amazing work again this fortnight:08:36
flypig#info As a result of the Bug Coordination Team's excellent work, we now have:08:36
flypig#info  - 6 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".08:36
flypig#info  - 1 bug reports tagged as "fixed".08:37
flypig#info  - 2 flagged as duplicates.08:37
thilo[m]we should send pherjung a cake ;)08:37
flypigSeconded :)08:37
flypigAlright, time to wrap up.08:37
flypig#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)08:37
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th August 2022)"08:37
flypigProposing Thursday 1st September at 07:00am UTC08:38
flypigAny objections?08:38
flypigOkay, let's set it at that then!08:39
flypig#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 1st September 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-09-01T0700Z08:39
flypigThanks for some lovely discussion as always everyone!08:39
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Aug 18 08:39:45 2022 UTC.08:39
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 18th August 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:39
ExTechOpThank you everybody!08:40
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 1st September 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:42
xenial-userthx #?08:43
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