Thursday, 2022-09-29

flypig#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 202207:01
sailbotMeeting started Thu Sep 29 07:01:04 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:01
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:01
flypig#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:01
flypigGood morning all.07:01
flypigI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my keep best to order and time.07:01
flypig#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:01
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:01
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla07:02
Tomin#info Tomi Leppänen - sailor @ Jolla07:02
karry#info Lukáš Karas - community developer07:02
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva - for privateer Jolla07:03
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - sailor @ Jolla07:03
fridl#info fridlmue - community07:05
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community07:05
flypigThanks to everyone for joining, it's nice to have you all here.07:06
flypig4-3 to the sailors today ;)07:06
flypigSince we didn't have any questions this week, we thought we'd invite a special guest to talk about Exchange support, so we have a jolla question about that.07:06
flypig#topic Microsoft Exchange OAuth2 support (20 mins -- asked by jolla)07:07
*** sailbot changes topic to "Microsoft Exchange OAuth2 support (20 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:07
flypig#info <jolla> As has been raised on the forum, Microsoft will be phasing out basic authentication (passwords) for Exchange (including Office 365) accounts from October this year.07:07
flypig#info <jolla> We have been working hard to develop support for new authentication methods to ensure Exchange support continues to work on Sailfish OS after the transition.07:07
flypig#info <jolla> We know this potentially affects a number of people, so we're very pleased to have Tomi Leppänen (**tomin**), lead developer for the upcoming Sailfish OS Exchange update, join us to discuss Jolla's work in this area.07:07
flypig#info <jolla> In the meeting Tomi will briefly summarise the situation, after which you will be welcome to ask questions.07:07
flypig(that's now)07:07
flypigSo we'll first have a quick intro Q&A where I ask Tomi some of the questions that we think will be generally of interest. We have seven questions, so please bear with us! After that we can follow up with any other questions.07:07
flypigTomi, tell us about your role at Jolla?07:08
TominI’m a software developer.07:08
flypigVery pithy :) What is Exchange and where will people have seen it on Sailfish OS?07:08
TominIt’s one of the account types on Sailfish that you get when purchasing a Sailfish X license. Exchange syncs mail, calendar and contacts from cloud to the device.07:08
flypigWhat is the issue with Basic authentication and how is this relevant to Sailfish OS users?07:09
TominMicrosoft wants to deprecate basic authentication because it’s less secure than newer token-based authentication methods.07:09
TominCurrent releases of Sailfish OS only support Basic authentication, which will stop working eventually as Microsoft is turning off Basic authentication for their customers.07:09
flypigWhat has Jolla been working on to try to address this?07:09
TominWe have been improving our OAuth 2 support in general, adding a new account type that supports Exchange ActiveSync with Modern Authentication (aka OAuth 2), and enhancing Exchange support to handle tokens instead of usernames and passwords.07:10
TominExchange support is closed source, but here are the related PRs on open source components from Github:07:10
flypigWill the new authentication work with all Exchange accounts?07:11
TominThere are many different Exchange servers and configurations in the wild. We’ve been able to test only on limited number of them.07:11
TominThus it’s important that people give us feedback on accounts that they try.07:11
TominExchange with personal accounts, for example email, is something which won’t work yet.07:11
TominWe are working on that still, and hopefully it can be supported in a future release.07:11
TominThe “Microsoft Exchange” type account will continue working until Microsoft disables Basic authentication.07:11
flypigOkay, so crucially, what will this mean for users of Sailfish OS?07:12
TominIf you use Exchange with a work or school account, once this support is released you’ll need to update your devices to latest release and recreate your Exchange account.07:12
TominIt is important that you delete the previous “Microsoft Exchange” account and create “Microsoft 365” account.07:12
TominIf you are using “Microsoft Exchange” with a server from some other party than Microsoft, they may keep Basic authentication on and you don’t need to do anything.07:12
flypigAnd finally, the question everyone wants to know the answer to: when will the changes be released?07:12
TominWe haven’t given a public release date yet, but we’re hoping it can be released soon.07:12
flypig:) Thanks Tomi! Hopefully that was useful for anyone who's using Exchange on Sailfish OS.07:13
flypigIf anyone else would like to ask Tomi questions about this, then please feel free.07:13
ExTechOpTomin: Will the improved Oauth2 code help with other services with similar authentication schemes, or has Microsoft once again done their EEE thing?07:13
ExTechOpI mean, Google APIs use OAuth2 but obviously more work is needed with Microsoft.07:15
fridlWill it need an update of SFOS for this new account type, simply an update of Exchange Support in the Harbour will not do the trick, is that correct?07:15
flypigBoth excellent questions :)07:15
TominExTechOp: Improving part here is mostly about upgrading our OAuth2 plugin, so there are certainly bugfixes there :)07:15
TominAlso if something happened to change to use JWT, that would be better supported now07:16
flypigWhat is JWT?07:16
flypigJelly Wobbly Technical stuff?07:17
TominIt's short for JSON Web Token07:17
flypigSo that's the format used to contain the authentication token?07:17
TominThat's the format that the authentication token uses, at least for organizational 365 accounts. It contains authentication and authorization information07:18
flypigPerfect, thank you!07:19
Tominfridl: We will make a Sailfish OS update for that07:19
flypigJust to clarify that point, some of the changes required are to packages that aren't just part of the EAS codebase.07:20
TominYes, indeed :)07:20
fridlTomin: makes sense, if the OAuth2 is that deeply integrated in SFOS itself.07:20
ExTechOpA practical thing about using Oauth2 for Google accounts: it mostly works, but occasionally when you have entered the username and password correctly, the final screen where you have to press "allow" or some similar button, it gets rendered silly small, un-resizable, and un-clickable. Anyone seen this?07:21
flypigIf I recall correctly, Oauth2 for the Google account opens in the browser, is that correct ExTechOp?07:22
ExTechOpI believe so, though in some way embedded.07:23
TominWe are trying to move all of the accounts to external browser to avoid issues with embedded browser07:25
TominThat means also it could improve in the near future :)07:25
flypigBut ExTechOp, if you continue to see that, please let us know.07:26
ExTechOpWill do07:26
flypigThanks :)07:26
flypigOkay, we hit time and had some nice questions, thank you ExTechOp and fridl. Let's move on to the next topic.07:27
flypigIf anyone has further questions, feel free to ask them in the General section. Tomi will be sticking around (I hope).07:28
flypigThank you Tomi for the useful insight!07:28
flypig#topic Open PR discussion (10 min -- asked by jolla)07:28
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 min -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:28
flypig#info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?07:28
flypigWe didn't have any posted to the forum, but if anyone would like to raise one now, please feel free.07:28
flypigOkay, I guess we don't have any today. Please feel free to bring your dangling PRs to the next meeting :)07:32
flypig#topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)07:32
*** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:32
flypig#info <pherjung> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.07:32
flypig#info <Jolla> Here is our usual summary of their excellent work:07:32
flypig#info <Jolla> - 7 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".07:32
flypig#info <Jolla> - 3 bug reports marked as "pending" more info.07:32
flypig#info <Jolla> - 3 bug reports tagged as "fixed".07:32
flypig#info <Jolla> - 5 marked as duplicates and closed.07:32
flypig#info <Jolla> - 3 recategorised as Feature Requests.07:32
flypigMy feeling is that the bug reports section is looking a lot more clear now. Thanks again for all your work BCT!07:33
flypigNow go General Discussion07:33
flypig#topic General discussion (20 min)07:33
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:33
fridlYeah, thanks to the Bug Coordination Team!07:33
NicoTomin, I love your humor, thank you for joining us!07:34
TominNico: thanks! :)07:35
NicoNobody has anything to discuss, huh?07:35
ViGeI just started to wonder where I could get a jar of Jolly Wobbly Technical stuff.07:36
fridlJust the normal things never gets a proper answer (for good reasons ;-P) like: How is Jolla doing these days in general? Lots of work on Automotive? Are there rumors or news that can be shared ;-P07:36
ExTechOpI could bring up again the issue of network hopping (mobile network to wifi and back), and how applications still keep falling on the wayside when this happens. Is this being actively worked on?07:37
flypigViGe, I can sell you some if you like... super cheap ;)07:37
thilo[m]The sdk uses qemu for the build targets, right? Can anyone point me to where this is installed and configured?07:37
flypigfridl, all very good questions, and they will all get answered eventually :)07:38
ViGethilo[m]: Why would you need to do that?07:38
thilo[m]Flypig: do you ship all over EU? ;)07:38
flypigthilo[m], I do, postage and packing at Very Good Rates (tm) ;)07:38
NicoBREAKING: flypig confirms Qt update in the next Sailfish update!07:38
thilo[m]The graalvm java compiler needs more memory, flypig looked into it and said the qemu has some limitations and i wanted to see if i can hack something07:39
NicoEverything you say is used against you :307:39
Nicothilo, is that when running in docker mode?07:40
thilo[m]Flypig: just make sure i dont get a sobbing, leaking , wet parcel again ;)07:40
flypigHaha :D07:40
flypigExTechOp, concerning your networking question, if nobody can give an answer to that today, I'll try to get you an answer for the next meeting.07:41
thilo[m]I am in docker mode, but actually haven't tried it yet. I started poking around, looking for where the target machines are defined07:41
abrfridl: fine thanks. how are you?07:41
ViGethilo[m]: that's interesting, but are you really sure it's because of qemu?07:42
flypigI think QEMU was used in both Docker and VirtualBox mode. Is that correct ViGe?07:42
thilo[m]I need > 1gb ram for compilation ( sighs)07:42
ViGeflypig: yes, that's correct07:42
NicoI regularly need more than 1gb too and it is fine07:42
ExTechOpflypig It would be nice to hear some answers, because this has been a pain for several releases. Even now I have system/utilities/network restart open so that I can reset the network if I walk out of wifi and (specially Android apps) don't get connectivity.07:43
fridlabr: hihi, nice to hear that! Doing good, too. ;-)07:43
thilo[m]So you wouldnt expect this to be the issue?07:43
fridlExTechOp: I mainly do not use Wifi on my phone anymore because of that.07:44
Nicothilo, I would not :D07:44
flypigfridl, understood, and I think this was an issue that was raised a meeting or two ago. I can appreciate an update would be useful.07:44
NicoWhat target are you compiling for? aarch64?07:44
flypigSorry, my previous message was aimed at both fridl and ExTechOp07:45
thilo[m]aarch64, yes07:47
NicoInteresting :D07:48
flypigIf I'm recalling correctly thilo[m], it's an issue that's confined to running the JVM in QEMU. Non-Java builds using >1mb aren't necessarily affected.07:50
flypigTomin has helpfully pointed out that I should have written >1gb there ;)07:53
NicoWell, it is technically correct07:53
thilo[m]i got that right in post-processing ;)07:53
thilo[m]I am looking into it right now but this takes some time ;)07:54
flypigGood luck with it thilo[m], as you already know, I think it'd be really great to get your toolchain working in the SDK.07:55
flypigOkay, we're not in a rush today, but I think this may be a good time to wrap up. Any final questions or topics to raise?07:55
thilo[m]ill report back to the regular irc room07:55
flypig#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)07:56
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 29th September 2022)"07:56
flypigProposing Thursday 13th October at 07:00am UTC07:56
flypigAny objections?07:56
ExTechOpWorks 4 me07:57
flypigAlright, let's go with that then :)07:58
flypig#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th October 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-10-13T0700Z07:58
flypigSo, that wraps things up. I just want to take the opportunity to thank abr for doing a great job chairing last week, and to Tomin for joining us as a special guest today :)07:58
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Sep 29 07:59:07 2022 UTC.07:59
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 29th September 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"07:59
NicoYep, it was great!07:59
fridlThanks to everyone.07:59
flypigYes, thanks everyone :)07:59
Tominflypig: I was happy to be here, even if I had to leave my comfort zone! :)07:59
ExTechOpThanks, everyone!08:00
peperjohnny[m]Tomin: you did great08:00
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th October 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:01

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