Thursday, 2022-12-08

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o sailbot07:43
flypigGood morning!08:00
ViGeGood Morning!08:00
flypigI'm glad you're here ViGe :) It seems unusually quiet here today, but we should get started anyway.08:01
flypig#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 202208:01
sailbotMeeting started Thu Dec  8 08:01:15 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:01
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"08:01
flypig#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:08:01
flypigI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order.08:01
flypigPlease respect the timings, don't be reckless with other people's hearts, don't put up with people who are reckless with yours. And wear sunscreen.08:01
flypig#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info08:01
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"08:01
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, Sailor @ Jolla and chairperson08:02
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar, sailor @ Jolla.08:02
ExTechOpGood morning, everyone!08:02
flypigGood morning ExTechOp.08:02
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community08:02
ExTechOp(oh dear, is this all?)08:04
ViGe#info Ville Nummela, sailor@Jolla08:04
flypigIt is surprisingly quiet. No one else from the community today?08:05
flypigMaybe everyone is just being shy? If you'd like to announce yourself later during the meeting, please feel free.08:05
flypigFor info, this will likely be the last meeting of the year. With a final result of 3-1 to the sailors.08:06
flypigLet's continue to our first topic.08:06
flypig#topic Log collection continued (and Bugger! enhancements) (10 mins -- asked by nephros)08:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "Log collection continued (and Bugger! enhancements) (10 mins -- asked by nephros) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"08:06
flypig#info <nephros> The last meeting raised the point of possibly enhancing the Bugger! tool to help in collecting logs.08:07
flypig#info <nephros> Specifically: "<thilo[m]>: If someone could contribute a poc to bugger, i think that would help".08:07
flypig#info <nephros> The Bugger! development Team ;) has listened and the latest beta introduces a PoC of a "plug-in" system based on systemd units.08:07
flypig#info <nephros> Rudimentary documentation is available and builds of the 0.10.x beta are available at the Chum Testing repo.08:07
flypig#info <nephros> This meeting topic is more a FYI and a request for feedback from anyone interested, and an invitation to improve that topic at the Bugger development repo.08:07
flypig#info Some screenshots of the log gathering pages:08:08
flypigUnfortunately nephros is probably unable to make it, but here's our prepared answer and then we can discuss further.08:08
flypig#info <Jolla> We had a play around with your PoC and discussed it internally and were impressed. There were a few points raised during the discussion we wanted to share.08:09
flypig#info <Jolla> 1. It would be good if the logs could be checked before being uploaded, or uploaded in a non-public way, to avoid private data being shared accidentally.08:09
flypig#info <Jolla> 2. It would be good to have the logs uploaded in a way that allows users to share it only with Jolla, since some users feel more comfortable with that.08:09
flypig#info <Jolla> 3. Can the app be made available from the Jolla Store?08:09
flypig#info <Jolla> Overall, we felt it looks very promising.08:09
flypigThat's the prepared answer. Did anyone get a chance to try out the app?08:09
pherjung[m]#info pherjung, community08:10
pherjung[m]Sorry I'm a bit late08:10
flypigNo problem pherjung[m], it's good to have you here.08:10
ThaodanPersonally I think that this isn't a good candicate as a store app, sure it might help gather sum up a bug report even in the sandbox but it sounds like it might be best as a system app with more permisions.08:12
flypigAre there other thoughts on that? Should this be built in to the OS, and if it were, could we still support nephros's plugin system?08:13
ThaodanI think possibly, it could be a good way to collect logs for different systems inside Sailfish OS.08:16
flypigWell, until it's integrated into the OS, I think Bugger may become the new standard for log collection. I have to say, I thought the app worked really well, my main concern was about sharing private data.08:17
flypigDoes anyone know of a pastebin-like service that supports passwords, say?08:17
ThaodanMost are annoymous, the app could provide a feature to sanitize logs.08:18
flypigCould you elaborate Thaodan? I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable if the sanitisation was automated (i.e. I'd want to check the logs by hand).08:19
flypigBut open to being convinced :)08:19
ThaodanThere are several apps that sanitize there logs by removing data such as ip addresses or login names. I think pastebin services are just not a replacement for email.08:20
ThaodanIf we enable emails inside the foru, you could report a sailfish os bug from the bugger app.08:21
ViGeI agreen with flypig. Any automated sanitizer could easily miss logs added by some random app, which is e.g. forwarding messages to watch and logging the messages while at it. I wouldn't want my messages ending up in such logs.08:21
ThaodanNot saying it is perfect, just saying that is more about the medium where logs end up in and what kind of logs the user posts.08:22
flypigI just tried which is interesting: it encrypts the paste and you have to provide the "decryption" key. Here's an example:08:22
ViGeYeah, I'm also not saying that such sanitization feature would be useless. Just that one shouldn't rely only on it.08:23
ThaodanWhy a paste service? That doesn't sound like a good idea for everything..08:23
pherjung[m]An option could be added in Bugger to give the user the choice to send the logs over mail or over a pastebin service08:24
flypigI'd say a paste service is an easy way to share the data: large amounts of data, short URL, can be time-limited etc.08:25
flypig(I'm not saying it's the best way, just highlighting its benefits)08:25
ThaodanI think sending an email to the Sailfish OS forum sounds like a very good idea.08:26
flypigpherjung[m], that would be a nice addition. It would even be a convenient way to check logs, if I could send them to myself first.08:26
ThaodanIt would easy up the bug reporting porces greatly.08:26
flypigI think currently Bugger! uses the forum API to post the report. Correct me if I'm mistaken pherjung[m]?08:27
flypigWe should move on to the next topic, unless anyone has anything else they'd like to add?08:29
pherjung[m]I created an issue
flypigVery nice, thank you pherjung[m]. That's worth adding to the minutes.08:30
pherjung[m]flypig: not sure it uses the API08:30
flypig#info pherjung[m] created a ticket to add sending of logs by email.08:30
flypigpherjung[m], oh, that's my mistake then. I should have checked the code.08:31
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community08:31
dcalisteSorry for the late coming.08:31
flypigThanks for joining us dcaliste, glad you could.08:31
flypigLet's move on to the next topic.08:32
flypig#topic Xperia 10 iii Camera API progress. (5 mins. -- asked by nerd7473)08:32
*** sailbot changes topic to "Xperia 10 iii Camera API progress. (5 mins. -- asked by nerd7473) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"08:32
flypig#info <nerd7473 (Matrix)> I am curious what the timeline looks like for enabling the other cameras and the color filters within the camera app.08:32
flypigA short, pithy question. Here's our (also hopefully short and pithy) prepared answer.08:32
flypig#info <Jolla> We've started working on it, but it’s still at an early stage, so there are no public PRs or commits just yet.08:32
flypig#info <Jolla> We plan to make public PRs that others can contribute to, with the hope that this can be done in the new year, but as always, we can't give any guaranteed timelines at this stage.08:33
flypigDo you have any comments you'd like to add nerd7473[m]08:33
dcalisteA noob question: does AOSP on 10ii provides the new Camera2 API also ?08:34
Thaodandcaliste:  yes08:35
ThaodanCamera2 Api is present since ca. Android 8.08:35
dcalisteGreat, so the new code should work there also. What is the repo to look over to ? mediadroid ?08:36
flypigAndroid 5.0 (API level 21) and higher apparently.08:36
ThaodanTHe API just works much different to AP1 which is why it takes so long.08:36
Thaodanflypig: At least for Sony Aosp it is Android 8 since that depends on how good the camera hal below is.08:36
flypigThanks Thaodan.08:37
flypigdcaliste, apparently yes, droidmedia.08:37
Thaodandroidmedia and gst-droid08:38
flypigUnfortunately it seems nerd7473[m] wasn't able to join today. Shall we move on?08:39
flypigWe have bug reports, pull requests and general discussion to go, so let's continue.08:40
flypig#topic Untracked bug reports (5 mins -- asked by pherjung)08:40
*** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 mins -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"08:40
flypigThis is our usual summary.08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> Thank you once again to the Community Bug Coordination Team. Here's a summary of what changed as a result of your efforts:08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> 5 high quality bug reports recorded internally and tagged as "tracked";08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> 2 feature requests recorded internally and tagged as "tracked";08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> 1 bug tagged as "tracked" with a fix in the pipeline;08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> 5 bug report marked as "pending" more info;08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> 1 bug report tagged as "fixed";08:41
flypig#info <Jolla> 1 closed as being by design rather than bug.08:41
flypigThanks for your and the team's efforts again pherjung[m].08:41
Zhiz0idHey, hello!08:43
Zhiz0idHow long it takes to test and approve an app in harbour?08:43
pherjung[m]There a lot of bugs report which only need to be tagged correctly. How should we do for the next meeting? How many should we provide?08:44
pherjung[m]*There are08:45
flypigpherjung[m], perhaps you could provide me with a separate list (whenever it's convenient for you) and I can look at that separately?08:45
flypigZhiz0id, I saw you asked a question in matrix, but I didn't see it appear on IRC. Was that just me, did others receive it?08:45
pherjung[m]What I already do, but what is the maximum I could provide?08:46
flypigpherjung[m], it helps me a lot if you can stick to the usual limit (~10) for the meetings, otherwise I get overwhelmed. But if you provide me with a separate "just needs tags" list I can do that without the meeting deadline to worry about.08:47
flypigIf that makes sense?08:47
Zhiz0idflypig: no idea, but I sent my Q to irc only (sorry for a wrong channel, asked on #sailfishos also)08:47
flypigNo worries Zhiz0id. For the sake of the minutes and/or others, would you mind repeating your query please?08:48
Zhiz0idflypig: my Q not related to your meeting, just coincidence and wrong timing, sorry again :)08:49
flypigAh, I see. Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding Zhiz0id.08:49
flypigOkay, let's move on to the next topic then.08:49
flypigThanks again pherjung[m].08:49
flypig#topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla)08:49
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"08:49
flypig#info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?08:50
flypigWe didn't have any submitted in advance, but please feel free to raise any now.08:50
dcalisteI don't know if nephros is still interested in pushing this one : ?08:54
flypigThat does look like a very small change.08:55
flypigCan you think of any downsides to it dcaliste?08:55
flypig(or anyone else)08:56
dcalisteNot really, but I'm not very accustomed to CardDAV and how contactsd is storing additional fields.08:56
flypigIf I get the chance I'll test it out. Thanks for raising it dcaliste.08:57
flypigI was also wondering if anyone knows the status of this PR?08:58
flypigWhich relates to this feature request:08:58
ThaodanI haven't looked into08:59
Thaodanit is hard to interact with that particular person08:59
flypigSorry, the actual relevant PR is now this one it seems:08:59
flypigOkay, thanks Thaodan.09:00
flypigIt might be easiest to merge it in and tidy things up in a commit on top.09:00
flypigAlright, let's move to general discussion.09:02
flypig#topic General discussion (10 min)09:02
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (10 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"09:02
ExTechOpDo we have any ideas at this time on when the next SFOS release will be?09:05
flypigThat's a very good question ExTechOp.09:06
flypigI can tell you that there's been no official timeline announced.09:07
dcalisteExTechOp, from an external point of view, I still didn't see any 'upgrade-4.5' branches in the repo, which is a good indication that the project has been branched to create a stable release from the on going development.09:09
flypigdcaliste, is that something that you'd be likely to highlight in your repository roundup, when you see it?09:10
dcalisteYes, sure ;)09:10
flypigI'm not saying you necessarily should, just asking!09:11
dcalisteWell, sometime I can miss it also…09:11
flypigYes, I guess github isn't overt about new branches, you have to look for them.09:12
flypigOkay, we hit time on General Discussion. Shall we wrap up?09:13
dcalisteExactly, in the "repo" page, the repository is marked as updated within the last XX hours / days, but when you look at the "insight" tab for this repo, there is nothing for that period. So you should look at the "branch" tab to actually look for some activity there.09:13
flypigGitHub can be a bit of a maze. Thanks for the tip dcaliste, worth adding to the minutes I think.09:15
flypig#info dcaliste's advice when looking for fresh branches:09:15
flypig#info <dcaliste> in the "repo" page, the repository is marked as updated within the last XX hours / days, but when you look at the "insight" tab for this repo, there is nothing for that period. So you should look at the "branch" tab to actually look for some activity there.09:15
flypigOkay, let's move on.09:17
flypig#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)09:17
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 8th December 2022)"09:17
flypigProposing Wednesday 11th January at 08:00am UTC09:17
flypigThat's rather a big gap, but Christmas breaks hit the times in between.09:18
flypigAny objections?09:18
ExTechOpWednesday instead of Thursday from now on?09:18
ExTechOpBut this works for me.09:18
flypigAh, that's an error on my part. It's supposed to be Thursday.09:19
flypigProposing Thursday 12th January at 08:00am UTC09:19
flypigI must have been tired when I calculated that date :(09:19
ExTechOpThursday 2023-01-12, still works 4 me.09:20
dcalisteGood for me.09:20
flypigOkay, that's great :) Let's go with that then.09:20
flypig#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th January 2023 at 08:00am UTC: 2023-01-11T0800Z09:20
flypigThat's it for today. I hope everyone has a wonderful break over Christmas!09:20
ExTechOpThanks everyone, see you next year!09:20
Thaodanflypig: the topic didn't change09:21
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Dec  8 09:21:42 2022 UTC.09:21
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 8th December 2022 at 08:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"09:21
flypigThaodan, I need to release the next announcement on the forum, then I'll update the topic!09:22
ThaodanFlypig; ok09:22
flypigThanks all for joining the meeting today. Please bring plenty of good questions with you to the meetings in 2023!09:23
Crabsterthx #? and have a nice xmas09:23
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th January 2023 at 08:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"09:27

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