Thursday, 2023-03-30

nasHello, may I ask, the meeting ended before I join (10 mins ago) or it will start latter ?07:27
ViGenas: It will start after half on hour, i.e. at 8:00 UTC07:28
pherjung[m]I think later07:28
nasThank you ViGe ! looking forward to it (this is the first meeting I join)07:28
ViGeYeah, I didn't notice the daylight saving time when we agreed on the time previously, I would have proposed 7:00 UTC if I had.07:29
pherjung[m]8:00 UTC is a good choice too07:30
cruntesting ... testing ...07:31
ViGecrun: roger07:38
crunta - new to the matrix07:42
ExTechOpViGe pherjung I think many people would prefer earlier lunch, though, so 07:00Z would seem like a workable time07:58
ViGeExTechOp: Yes, I'm one those people :)07:59
ViGe#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 202308:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Mar 30 08:00:10 2023 UTC. The chair is ViGe. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:00
ViGe#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:08:00
ViGeI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.08:00
ViGeWe have again quite a few questions, but the persons asking the questions didn't reserve a lot of time for discussions, so we should be quite quick today.08:00
ViGe#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today08:01
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community08:01
pherjung[m]#info pherjung, community08:02
crun#info crun, community08:03
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community08:03
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, community08:03
nas#info nas nas, community08:04
abr#info Andrew Branson, sailor!08:05
ViGeabr: I was already afraid I was the only sailor here!08:05
ViGe#topic Will there be an official port for Xperia 10 iv? (5 min -- asked by martinbook85)08:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "Will there be an official port for Xperia 10 iv? (5 min -- asked by martinbook85) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:05
ViGe#info <martinbook85> Jolla / Sailfish has had an official port for all the middle range Xperia phones since Xperia X, continuing with Xperia XA2, Xperia 10, Xperia 10 ii and Xperia 10 iii.08:06
ViGe#info <martinbook85> The 10 iii is somewhat difficult to get at a reasonable price and therefore several (5-10 that I have encountered, maybe more) people have gone out to get an Xperia 10 iv.08:06
ViGe#info <martinbook85> There has been no promise about a port for Xperia 10 iv but it is still available for purchase at quite an OK price.08:06
ViGe#info <martinbook85> It would therefore be good to know if there will be an official port.08:06
ViGeAnd here's the prepared answer:08:06
ViGe#info <Jolla> Sony Xperia 10 IV is plausible candidate for the officially supported Sailfish X device.08:06
ExTechOpSo what would an approximate time frame for this be?08:07
ViGeExTechOp: I can't give any time frame. Except maybe "not anytime soon". It usually takes a few months to make a mature enough port.08:09
flypigIs there already a community port?08:10
ViGelet's move on08:10
ViGeflypig: Not that I'm aware of08:10
ViGe#topic Add the ability to change haptics in keyboard / improve reactivity (5 min -- asked by Valorsoguerriero97)08:10
*** sailbot changes topic to "Add the ability to change haptics in keyboard / improve reactivity (5 min -- asked by Valorsoguerriero97) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:10
ViGe#info <Valorsoguerriero97> The default sailfish keyboard is frustating because of its weak haptics, I ask for having the GUI to change vibration intensity and to improve its reactivity on SFOS forum.08:10
ViGe#info <Valorsoguerriero97> Try posting with it on default browser and you'll experience heavy lags.08:10
ViGe#info <Valorsoguerriero97> However the biggest thing I would love to see is the option to have low/medium/strong haptic feedback.08:10
ViGe#info <Valorsoguerriero97> Thx!08:10
ViGe#info <Jolla> The haptic feedback details depend quite much on the hardware.08:11
ViGe#info <Jolla> On some it’s nicely fast and precise while on cheaper haptic modules it takes some time to start.08:11
ViGe#info <Jolla> The device isn’t mentioned here, but perhaps the device configuration on the amount could be checked.08:11
ViGe#info <Jolla> However, increasing the force might mean delaying the lag on feedback start and stop.08:11
piggz[m]#info Adam Pigg, community08:12
flypigIf I recall correctly, we had to tone down the haptics for Fingerterm on the Xperia 10 II/III. ToeTerm still uses the previous settings, so if you want to try out stronger keyboard haptics, it may be worth trying out ToeTerm.08:13
ViGeflypig: We had to tone down the haptics for Xperia 10 III everywhere. When you moved your finger on the keyboard it felt like the device was trying to get airborne.08:14
*** karry_ is now known as karry08:14
flypigYes, exactly. You can still have that experience using ToeTerm :)08:14
crunIs there a global setting for it?08:14
karry#info Lukáš Karas, community developer08:15
ViGecrun: I have no idea how it's configured, sorry08:15
ViGeTime to move on08:15
ViGe#topic Right-To-Left Optimization(RTL) (5 min -- asked by mad_dev)08:15
*** sailbot changes topic to "Right-To-Left Optimization(RTL) (5 min -- asked by mad_dev) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:15
ViGe#info <mad_dev> RTL is not yet optimized in SFOS, where input fields and headers are automatically text aligned to the right if the script is right to left.08:15
ViGe#info <mad_dev> I have also sent an email on March 13 with the same topic.08:15
ViGe#info <mad_dev> My question is, what is Jolla's stance on RTL, and is the patched solution(appending a mirroring declaration) the best way forward?08:16
ViGe#info <Jolla> Proper RTL support is definitely a thing we’d like to have, but as we haven’t gotten big enough need for any RTL language yet, the polishing hasn’t been done.08:16
ViGe#info <Jolla> On the details we’d likely keep the UI layout otherwise the same but just make sure the text fields work nicely right aligned.08:16
ViGe#info <Jolla> Not sure what the mentioned patched solution is specifically.08:16
ViGeIt seems mad_dev is not here :(08:17
ViGeToo bad, as it would have been nice to hear what that patched solution was08:18
flypigThis thread seems to have more info:08:18
flypigSo, maybe this is the patch?08:19
ViGeinteresting, need to check that out08:20
flypig"It’s main function is to simply append the mirroring declaration at a given line."08:20
ViGeLet's move on to next question08:20
ViGe#topic - (5 min -- asked by crun)08:20
*** sailbot changes topic to "- (5 min -- asked by crun) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:20
ViGe#info <crun> Sailfish itself is now pretty usable.08:20
ViGe#info <crun> However the X10iii has hardware related issues that are showstoppers for me - I cannot use it beyond a secondary phone.08:20
ViGe#info <crun> These may all relate to Sony and the Sony AOSP.08:20
ViGe#info <crun> Can any of them be fixed at all by Jolla, or are these just AOSP bugs in a now obsolete phone that Sony will never fix?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Standby Battery Drain.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> GPS Lock is slow/unable when signal is weak - Side-by-side is different to Android.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Seems to be all Sonys, not just 10iii.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Internet/cell disabled - this is nothing to do with AGPS.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> VoLTE does not configure/register on any of the 3 carriers in NZ Android or SFOS - registration appears disabled here, and my carrier blames Sony.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> I can probably get the required configuration data from the carrier, but need a way to put it in the phone.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Does Sony block whole countries?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Is the X10iii whitelisted (i.e.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> only Sony contracted carriers/regions will every work)?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Is this happening in blobs or is it something SFOS can access?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Do you know how VoLTE configures and registers (i.e.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> what is going on here), or is this a block box to you as well?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Does Sony help in any meaningful way e.g answering questions now the X10iii is obsolete?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> Can we get a might fix / can't fix acknowledgement?08:21
ViGe#info <crun> To date there have not been any requests for tests/info on any of these topics.08:21
ViGe#info <crun> I have both Android and SF X10iii's and can side by side compare them.08:21
ViGeI just noticed that the script treated "i.e." as end of sentence...08:22
ViGe#info <Jolla> Sony does still fix issues in AOSP for Xperia 10 III.08:22
ViGe#info <Jolla> We can’t comment on agreements between Sony and carriers.08:22
ViGeThat's all there is - sorry to say but we really can't speak on behalf of Sony08:23
crunThe Standby current and GPS have been fairly widely discussed. Are these actually bug tracked by Jolla?08:23
flypigDo you have forum links for those crun, just for reference?08:24
crunSe my post08:24
ViGeWe don't have a single "GPS is bad" bug if that's what you are asking08:24
ViGecrun: for the battery drain, we have this:
ViGewhich, like the "tracked" tag suggests, is tracked08:26
abrFor the VoLTE, the device firmware contains modem configs for each operator, that come from the carriers themselves.08:28
abryou can see hem all in /vendor/firmware_mnt/image/modem_pr/mcfg/configs on the device08:28
crun_back again08:28
crun_computer locked up08:29
abrI see some in a 'AUNZ' directory on there, for Optus, Telstra and Vodaphone.08:29
ViGecrun: Regarding GPS, I wasn't able to find a single bug report describing what you are seeing with Xperia 10 III, so it might make sense to file one. There are numerous bug reports about GPS in general though.08:29
crun_This has been a frustration, as I think that this is the same underlying issue the XA2 has08:30
abrbut unlike the x10ii, these are automatically loaded by the modem when needed. so if VoLTE doesn't work then your carrier is probably correct - they're just not supported by the device.08:30
crun_the phone can be cold started, no network, and the GPS will see many satellites within seconds08:31
crun_but it does not lock quickly, and if the signal is wek , it cannot lock at all08:31
ViGepherjung[m]: Thanks. I was searching our internal tracker, that one is not there08:32
crun_As I said, I have both android and SFOS , 10iii, so I can compare side by side.08:32
pherjung[m]oh, my bad08:32
crun_GPSInfo on SFOS actually shows the sats, faster than the Android08:32
crun_So I can create a specific bug report08:33
flypigcrun_, is it possible to disable AGPS on Android and compare the two that way?08:34
ViGecrun_: Out of curiosity, how do you check whether you have lock on Android side?08:34
crun_A GPS app shows the same stuff GPSInfo shows08:34
ViGecrun_: which GPS app?08:35
crun_e.g. "8 of 25 sats used" when it has lock08:35
crun_I would have to check08:35
crun_I don't have to use it much - as the GPS works.08:35
ViGecrun_: I think you can also use the "GPS signal very bad" bug report which pherjung linked above, and just add the details in comments there08:36
crun_You will note in GPSInfo that it now shows how long it took to get first lock - I added this for my (late) XA208:36
pherjung[m]I also prefer this way08:36
crun_The details are there....08:36
ViGecrun_: I'm mostly asking to that I could try to reproduce the issue. I don't really have any issues with GPS either on my Xperia 10 III or XA2, so all information is useful.08:37
ViGeWell, we are already quite a lot overtime for this question, let's move on, and continue the discussion on the forum08:38
ViGe#topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by Community Bug Coordination Team)08:38
*** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by Community Bug Coordination Team) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:38
crun_One thing I can't easily test is if Sony AOSP has this issue or it is a SFOS issue08:38
ViGe#info <Community Bug Coordination Team> Our regular Community Bug Coordination Team update - see the forum for the links to actual bug reports08:38
ViGe#info <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again.08:38
ViGe#info <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have:08:38
ViGe#info <Jolla> 7 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".08:38
ViGe#info <Jolla> 2 bug reports marked as "pending" more info.08:38
pherjung[m]There is a missing duplicate, no?08:39
pherjung[m]This one:
pherjung[m]flypig used to close them :)08:39
ViGeoh, right that one. When I looked more closely into it, I don't think it's a duplicate.08:40
ViGe#topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla)08:42
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:42
ViGe#info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?08:43
crun_abr: I missed most of what you posted re volte can you repost at the end when meeting is done pls?08:46
ViGe#topic General discussion (20 min)08:47
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"08:47
dcalistecrun, you can find a backlog at
ExTechOpHas any progress been made with this: ?08:48
flypigFor Valorsoguerriero97's vibration strength query, there is this folder that seems to have some vibration values in it. I'm not sure if it's the right place to change things though:08:48
ViGe#info <abr> For the VoLTE, the device firmware contains modem configs for each operator, that come from the carriers themselves.08:49
ViGe#info <abr> you can see hem all in /vendor/firmware_mnt/image/modem_pr/mcfg/configs on the device08:49
flypigdif: /usr/share/ngfd/events.d08:49
dcalisteExTechOp, not from my side… Besides the fact, that I didn't encounter the bug again since I'm using
dcalisteBut this PR is not a fix, just a try to circumvent it.08:50
dcalisteAnd not a proper way to do it…08:50
ViGeExTechOp: looks like some investigation has been done, but the real reason has not been found yet.08:53
ViGePlaying less helps, that's what dcaliste's PR above does08:54
flypigAlso, concerning vibration, maybe this file is useful (I didn't try editing it): /usr/share//ngfd/plugins.d/50-droid-vibrator.ini08:54
karryHi Sailors, I would like to get some reply to my suggestion to use PSI api for memory monitoring:
karryIn future, I may help with switch of lowmemory killer to some userspace implementation (using PSI api)09:04
ViGekarry: I'm afraid our specialists in this topic are not here today :(09:04
dcalistekarry, this deserves to be discussed in length, in an open PR discussion during a meeting.09:05
ViGe#info could use some review and discussion09:05
ViGe#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)09:07
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 30th March 2023)"09:07
ViGeProposing Thursday 13th April at 07:00am UTC09:07
karryOk, I will raise this topic for some future meeting09:07
ViGePlease note the time, taking into account the daylight saving time09:07
ViGekarry: I could also try to summon someone to review your PR09:08
ExTechOpViGe 2023-04-13T07:00Z works 4 me09:08
ViGeLooks like there are no objections09:11
ViGe#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th April 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-04-13T0700Z09:11
ViGeThanks everyone!09:11
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Mar 30 09:11:51 2023 UTC.09:11
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 30th March 2023 at 08:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"09:11
flypigThanks ViGe, all!09:12
ExTechOpThank you, everybody!09:12
xenial-userthx to #?09:13
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th April 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"09:15

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