Thursday, 2023-10-26

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o sailbot06:07
rainemakgood morning06:55
direc85[m]good morning06:56
flypigGood morning!06:59
rainemak#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 202307:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Oct 26 07:00:14 2023 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:00
rainemak#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:00
rainemakI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.07:00
rainemak#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:00
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - community07:01
direc85[m]#info Matti Viljanen, community07:01
rubdos[m]#info Ruben De Smet, community07:01
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today07:01
tuplasuhveli[m]#info tuplasuhveli, community07:01
voidanix[m]#info voidanix, proficient lurker/community07:01
Crabster#info Crabster - lurker07:02
Keto#info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla07:03
flypigA solid community win?07:04
rainemakSeems so :)07:04
rubdos[m]Don't jinx it!07:04
flypigHaha :) But a 4-4 draw between matrix and IRC!07:04
rainemak#topic Recently released repositories (10mins -- asked by sailr)07:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "Recently released repositories (10mins -- asked by sailr) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> As also announced in the latest community news, various repositories07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> have been published by jolla on github under bsd license and made publicly07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> available. Since a few days they have disappeared again. Here are some07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> questions:07:05
rainemak#info <sailr>07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> 1. Will the repositories be released again and if so, when? If not, why?07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> 2. Is the release of other currently proprietary components under bsd07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> license planned? If so, will this affect all components of the system?07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> If not, which components should remain proprietary?07:05
rainemak#info <sailr> 3. Can you give reasons for releasing the components under bsd license?07:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> We have communicated reasoning in the re-organisation thread.07:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> Thank you for your understanding.07:05
SailrThanks for your reply. Were these repositories licensed under bsd ?07:07
SailrSome people forked these repos and would like to know if they are allowed to use it or republish it on07:08
flypigIt's good to see the update. I'm certain everyone is rooting for Jolla to succeed with the re-organisation.07:09
tuplasuhveli[m]Yes, kudos for being open about the current situation.07:10
voidanix[m]to add to this, what was the reasoning at jolla for releasing the repositories before? Assuming the restructuring was already ongoing then07:11
rainemakSailr, unfortunately I'm not a layer. Thus, I'd rather not want to dive there.07:11
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community07:11
tuplasuhveli[m]I feel like some of parts of the original question were left unanswered. So, to return to them:07:13
tuplasuhveli[m]To what extent are you planning to re-license previously closed code in the future, if the situation allows it? If you have any particular goals in mind, feel free to share them as well.07:13
SailrCan you publish an answer to these questions in one of the next community newsletters, once the restructuring process is finished?07:13
rainemakgreat typo: lawyer that :-)07:13
rainemakas communicated, we'll update on the matter the soonest07:14
flypigI'm not a lawyer, and have no inside knowledge. My lay and context-free interpretation would be that once something is released under BSD, anyone who has the code can use it. But if it was an error to release it, good etiquette says people should abide by the owner's wishes.07:15
rubdos[m]My IANAL take: Jolla did probably not intend to release those repositories, which is why they are not visible anymore.  On the other hand, you could probably use them, and it might even hold in court (or it may not, IANAL).  Jolla is clearly not in a position to answer, and possible not even in a position to take it to court.  So the real question in my opinion is: do you want to go against Jolla's intentions, or do you just want07:16
rubdos[m]to use the code?07:16
rubdos[m]... and flypig managed to phrase that idea into fewer sentences than I did :)07:16
flypigI'm reassured that we both said basically the same thing :D07:17
SailrCorrect =) Just wanted to place teleshoes question.07:17
rainemakThank you for the discussion. 10mins up.07:18
rainemakLet's move on.07:18
rainemak#topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla)07:18
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:18
rainemak#info <Jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?07:18
rainemakDidn't spot myself anything special. Anybody else? flypig rubdos[m] maybe?07:20
rubdos[m]I would throw in here, although it's only 3 days old.  I could however be a nasty person and claim that is older than the requirement, and trigger the discussion anyway.  Either way: to test those PRs (direc85 and I are trying), we'd need cross-{aarch64,armv7hl}-glibc packages, and I can't seem to find how to get a hold of them.07:20
rubdos[m]mal will still comment on that outside of this meeting however, so I don't really expect an answer07:21
rainemakyeap, saw the discussion between you and mal07:21
rubdos[m]And mal is not in the meeting, so I don't really expect anything out of the above statement.07:21
rubdos[m]It would however be nice if some clarification could be given on those packages, even if it only were instructions on how to build them ourselves07:22
rubdos[m]either in here, or outside of the meeting :)07:22
rubdos[m]My feeling is that there's some secrecy going on around them.07:22
rubdos[m]but my feeling might be very well off.07:22
flypigFor context in the meeting here, could you briefly explain what these patches are for rubdos[m]?07:23
rainemakNoted outside of the meeting part. Thank you anyhow.07:23
rubdos[m]Also, just in case, this may come across as an attack on mal.  It's rather the contrary.07:24
rubdos[m]Context: these patches are my attempt to get LLVM and Rust to horribly recent versions, such that Gecko and Whisperfish can keep pace at updating.07:24
rainemakI read exactly that way.07:24
rubdos[m]#info Context: these patches are my attempt to get LLVM and Rust to horribly recent versions, such that Gecko and Whisperfish can keep pace at updating.07:24
flypigThank you!07:24
flypigIt's great that you're working on this.07:25
direc85[m]I also ran into the same packages missing when I patched GCC to fix the aarch64 bug flypig ran into - but OBS managed to build other architectures than i486.07:25
rainemakindeed! great stuff!07:25
rubdos[m]It's more efficient to work on rust 1.72.1 than it is to maintain all the patch sets for Whisperfish to keeps libs 1.52 compatible at this point :'-)07:25
flypigOh interesting direc85[m], I hit that as well trying to build your changes locally. I thought I was just doing something wrong.07:26
rubdos[m](and it seems that 1.72.1 is actually finished already!  mal is going to test it when he finds the time)07:26
rubdos[m]OBS is still black magic to me...07:26
rainemakAs we don't have too much topics. Let's use extra 10mins for this.07:27
rubdos[m]Okay, then maybe I can give some more context.07:28
flypigI know the feeling rubdos[m]. It's a heady mixture of opaque SUSE documentation and magical sb2.07:28
rainemakthe magical sb2 is not well documented07:29
rubdos[m]Upstream Rust 1.64 ( requires the statx syscall, which is currently not supported by sb2.  I decided to revert the specific patch (which has been done by Jolla in the past) that introduces the statx dependency.  It turns out to be a rather trivial revert, but Jolla might oppose on introducing that complexity.  Instead they could opt to implement statx in sb2.07:29
direc85[m]On that note, I managed to install the necessary Rust and LLVM packages in Sailfish SDK and successfully build Whisperfish with Rust 1.72.1 for i486.07:29
flypigWhat is statx for?07:30
rubdos[m]#info Jolla has to choose whether to support statx in sb2 or maintain revert patches for Rust.07:30
rubdos[m]statx is used for time64 on 32-bit platforms07:30
flypigThanks for clarifying. That helps make it a bit more concrete.07:31
rubdos[m]It's going to become increasingly cumbersome to maintain the patches, but at the moment they're rather trivial07:31
rubdos[m]We could also opt to patch upstream Rust and add a meego or jolla vendor target, but that's quite an endeavour on its own :'-)07:31
rubdos[m](and we'll still require some patches that they would never want to accept anyway)07:31
rubdos[m]#info statx is used for time64 on 32-bit platforms07:32
rainemaknot meego please07:32
rainemakif something, how about sb2 vendor target07:33
rainemakthere's nothing jolla specific per se07:33
rainemaksome food for thought07:34
rubdos[m]I fear that an sb2-target will open a can of worms that I would not intend to touch :'-)07:34
rubdos[m]food for thought indeed07:34
rainemakgood discussion... let's move on07:35
rainemak#topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)07:35
*** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:35
rainemak#info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports07:35
rainemak#info <Jolla> As always, the Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job.07:35
rainemak#info <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have:07:35
rainemak#info <Jolla> 7 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".07:35
rainemak#info <Jolla> 1 report issue got fixed already.07:35
rainemak#info <Jolla> 1 report is still under investigation.07:35
rainemakas direc85[m] is here as well maybe you'd like to add some more input to the ?07:36
flypigGreat work from both the bug team and Jolla.07:37
flypigdirec85[m], it's cool that you know a pirate!07:38
rainemakWe tried to reproduce it many ways and so far have not managed to reproduce it.07:38
rainemakCertainly we can continue the discussion on the issue as well.07:38
direc85[m]This is a bit from-the-hip as I did that a while ago.07:39
rainemakNo worries there07:39
direc85[m]To me it occurs with XA2 Ultra only, with all text sizes. There's an additional layout glitch in portrait orientation too.07:40
direc85[m]My device has gone through many OTA updates, so I could try reflashing it and see if that fixes the issue.07:40
rainemakI could do the same as well.07:41
rainemakAll in the all, like flypig put it, great work07:42
tuplasuhveli[m]I was able to to reproduce this one with 10 III. It wasn't obvious at first, but I scrolled the conversation slowly up and down and suddenly the overlap took place.07:42
rainemak#info Great work from both the bug team and Jolla.07:42
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m], my any chance did you happen to rotate the device whilst scrolling?07:43
tuplasuhveli[m]No, I use locked orientation.07:44
rainemaklike wise07:44
rainemakbut that's one factor there as landscape works differently07:44
rainemakLet's move on to the general discussion07:44
rainemak#topic General discussion (5 min)07:45
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:45
rainemak#info Daylight saving time ends at 29th Oct and clocks are turned backward 1 hour.07:45
poetastermoin, all. sorry to be late.07:45
rainemakflypig, you'll finally get your extra hour :-)07:45
flypigHei poetaster!07:45
flypigI've been waiting for this hour all year!07:45
direc85[m]Me too!07:46
poetasterI lost the hour in debugging this morning.07:46
rainemakHehe, that happens occasionally07:46
flypigHaha! Wisely "lost" I'm sure :)07:46
flypigCan I quickly ask about forum moderation. There's been a bit of disruption recently.07:46
flypigI didn't want to get involved (not my place) but would you/jolla mind if I try to be more active? I understand if you prefer me to keep out of it.07:47
ExTechOpApparently no progress has been made on reproducing/fixing ?07:47
rainemakflypig, I see you as a trusted community member. Thus, I'd like if you'd be more active.07:49
ExTechOpI concur.07:49
poetasterIt's becomming difficult to use the forum since I'm actively avoiding two users who, currently occuppy the 3 of the top seven threads.07:51
thilo[m]What is considered a good strategy? Currently i just try to keep out of toxic conversations... Would it help if more people speak against it?07:51
flypigThanks; I'll be try to be responsible and adult :D07:51
rainemakThank you flypig!07:51
voidanix[m]Speaking against does not help, it looks like07:51
SailrThanks, flypig!07:52
rainemakthilo[m], there's no easy answer.07:52
thilo[m]voidanix[m]: But just leaving them the conversation an visibility is dangerous as well..07:52
thilo[m]Hey, cool.. We're a small politics lab now...07:53
poetasterI hate to say it but I'm for three strikes you're banned.07:53
rainemakthis is what we used to use07:54
rainemakpersonally think that works well to forum as well07:54
thilo[m]Recently I feel some love for banning in me too ..07:54
poetasterit's suck. but life is short.07:55
rainemaklet's move on07:55
rainemakwe don't need to solve this now07:56
thilo[m]I'd like to have an option to report borderline illegal stuff07:56
rainemak#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)07:56
rainemakProposing Thursday 9th November at 07:00am UTC.07:56
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)"07:56
direc85[m]Isn't that 09:00 EET?07:58
NicoThanks for the DST reminder <307:59
direc85[m]I mean, 9 o'clock works better for me, just making sure it's intentional :)08:00
voidanix[m]I think that's 9am CET08:00
rainemakIt's not intentional. Even though I raised daily light saving ending :-)08:00
rainemakI should be 08:00 UTC, how does that sound like?08:02
rainemakthat should give that long requested hour for flypig :-=08:02
ExTechOpI'd also prefer 10:00+02:00 so 08:00Z08:02
rainemak#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 9th November 2023 at 08:00am UTC: 2023-11-09T0800Z08:03
rainemakThank you everyone for the meeting!08:03
ExTechOpThanks everyone!08:03
flypigThanks rainemak and everyone!08:03
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Oct 26 08:03:42 2023 UTC.08:03
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 26th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:03
direc85[m]Thank you!08:03
Crabsterthx #?08:04
karrythank you for discussion08:04
tuplasuhveli[m]By the way, after a reboot and deactivating all the patches, I'm no longer able to reproduce the bug with SMS on 10 III. I'll post to the related topic, if I'm able to reproduce it again.08:07
poetasterah, good to know.08:08
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m], in between of the lines that's what I was wondering as well08:11
rainemakand thank you tuplasuhveli[m]08:15
rubdos[m]Thanks from me too!  Meanwhile I went to the office :')08:22

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