| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sailbot | 06:07 | |
| Crabster | morning | 06:53 |
|---|---|---|
| rainemak | good morning | 06:55 |
| direc85[m] | good morning | 06:56 |
| flypig | Good morning! | 06:59 |
| rainemak | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023 | 07:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Oct 26 07:00:14 2023 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 07:00 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-26th-october-2023/16955 | 07:00 |
| rainemak | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 07:00 |
| rainemak | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:00 | |
| flypig | #info David Llewellyn-Jones - community | 07:01 |
| direc85[m] | #info Matti Viljanen, community | 07:01 |
| rubdos[m] | #info Ruben De Smet, community | 07:01 |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today | 07:01 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | #info tuplasuhveli, community | 07:01 |
| voidanix[m] | #info voidanix, proficient lurker/community | 07:01 |
| flypig | :D | 07:01 |
| Crabster | #info Crabster - lurker | 07:02 |
| Keto | #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla | 07:03 |
| flypig | A solid community win? | 07:04 |
| rainemak | Seems so :) | 07:04 |
| rubdos[m] | Don't jinx it! | 07:04 |
| flypig | Haha :) But a 4-4 draw between matrix and IRC! | 07:04 |
| rainemak | #topic Recently released repositories (10mins -- asked by sailr) | 07:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Recently released repositories (10mins -- asked by sailr) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:05 | |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> As also announced in the latest community news, various repositories | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> have been published by jolla on github under bsd license and made publicly | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> available. Since a few days they have disappeared again. Here are some | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> questions: | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> 1. Will the repositories be released again and if so, when? If not, why? | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> 2. Is the release of other currently proprietary components under bsd | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> license planned? If so, will this affect all components of the system? | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> If not, which components should remain proprietary? | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <sailr> 3. Can you give reasons for releasing the components under bsd license? | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> We have communicated reasoning in the re-organisation thread. | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Thank you for your understanding. | 07:05 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/re-organisation-of-jolla-company/17133/17 | 07:06 |
| Sailr | Thanks for your reply. Were these repositories licensed under bsd ? | 07:07 |
| Sailr | Some people forked these repos and would like to know if they are allowed to use it or republish it on | 07:08 |
| flypig | It's good to see the update. I'm certain everyone is rooting for Jolla to succeed with the re-organisation. | 07:09 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | Yes, kudos for being open about the current situation. | 07:10 |
| voidanix[m] | to add to this, what was the reasoning at jolla for releasing the repositories before? Assuming the restructuring was already ongoing then | 07:11 |
| rainemak | Sailr, unfortunately I'm not a layer. Thus, I'd rather not want to dive there. | 07:11 |
| ExTechOp | #info Otto Mäkelä, community | 07:11 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | I feel like some of parts of the original question were left unanswered. So, to return to them: | 07:13 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | To what extent are you planning to re-license previously closed code in the future, if the situation allows it? If you have any particular goals in mind, feel free to share them as well. | 07:13 |
| Sailr | Can you publish an answer to these questions in one of the next community newsletters, once the restructuring process is finished? | 07:13 |
| rainemak | great typo: lawyer that :-) | 07:13 |
| flypig | :) | 07:13 |
| rainemak | as communicated, we'll update on the matter the soonest | 07:14 |
| flypig | I'm not a lawyer, and have no inside knowledge. My lay and context-free interpretation would be that once something is released under BSD, anyone who has the code can use it. But if it was an error to release it, good etiquette says people should abide by the owner's wishes. | 07:15 |
| rubdos[m] | My IANAL take: Jolla did probably not intend to release those repositories, which is why they are not visible anymore. On the other hand, you could probably use them, and it might even hold in court (or it may not, IANAL). Jolla is clearly not in a position to answer, and possible not even in a position to take it to court. So the real question in my opinion is: do you want to go against Jolla's intentions, or do you just want | 07:16 |
| rubdos[m] | to use the code? | 07:16 |
| rubdos[m] | ... and flypig managed to phrase that idea into fewer sentences than I did :) | 07:16 |
| flypig | I'm reassured that we both said basically the same thing :D | 07:17 |
| rubdos[m] | :-D | 07:17 |
| Sailr | Correct =) Just wanted to place teleshoes question. | 07:17 |
| rainemak | Thank you for the discussion. 10mins up. | 07:18 |
| rainemak | Let's move on. | 07:18 |
| rainemak | #topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) | 07:18 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:18 | |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Any open PRs to discuss? | 07:18 |
| rainemak | Didn't spot myself anything special. Anybody else? flypig rubdos[m] maybe? | 07:20 |
| rubdos[m] | I would throw https://github.com/sailfishos/rust/pull/19 in here, although it's only 3 days old. I could however be a nasty person and claim that https://github.com/sailfishos/llvm/pull/3 is older than the requirement, and trigger the discussion anyway. Either way: to test those PRs (direc85 and I are trying), we'd need cross-{aarch64,armv7hl}-glibc packages, and I can't seem to find how to get a hold of them. | 07:20 |
| rubdos[m] | mal will still comment on that outside of this meeting however, so I don't really expect an answer | 07:21 |
| rainemak | yeap, saw the discussion between you and mal | 07:21 |
| rubdos[m] | And mal is not in the meeting, so I don't really expect anything out of the above statement. | 07:21 |
| rubdos[m] | It would however be nice if some clarification could be given on those packages, even if it only were instructions on how to build them ourselves | 07:22 |
| rubdos[m] | either in here, or outside of the meeting :) | 07:22 |
| rubdos[m] | My feeling is that there's some secrecy going on around them. | 07:22 |
| rubdos[m] | but my feeling might be very well off. | 07:22 |
| flypig | For context in the meeting here, could you briefly explain what these patches are for rubdos[m]? | 07:23 |
| rainemak | Noted outside of the meeting part. Thank you anyhow. | 07:23 |
| rubdos[m] | Also, just in case, this may come across as an attack on mal. It's rather the contrary. | 07:24 |
| rubdos[m] | Context: these patches are my attempt to get LLVM and Rust to horribly recent versions, such that Gecko and Whisperfish can keep pace at updating. | 07:24 |
| rainemak | I read exactly that way. | 07:24 |
| rubdos[m] | #info Context: these patches are my attempt to get LLVM and Rust to horribly recent versions, such that Gecko and Whisperfish can keep pace at updating. | 07:24 |
| flypig | Thank you! | 07:24 |
| flypig | It's great that you're working on this. | 07:25 |
| direc85[m] | I also ran into the same packages missing when I patched GCC to fix the aarch64 bug flypig ran into - but OBS managed to build other architectures than i486. | 07:25 |
| rainemak | indeed! great stuff! | 07:25 |
| rubdos[m] | It's more efficient to work on rust 1.72.1 than it is to maintain all the patch sets for Whisperfish to keeps libs 1.52 compatible at this point :'-) | 07:25 |
| flypig | Oh interesting direc85[m], I hit that as well trying to build your changes locally. I thought I was just doing something wrong. | 07:26 |
| rubdos[m] | (and it seems that 1.72.1 is actually finished already! mal is going to test it when he finds the time) | 07:26 |
| rubdos[m] | OBS is still black magic to me... | 07:26 |
| rainemak | As we don't have too much topics. Let's use extra 10mins for this. | 07:27 |
| rubdos[m] | Okay, then maybe I can give some more context. | 07:28 |
| flypig | I know the feeling rubdos[m]. It's a heady mixture of opaque SUSE documentation and magical sb2. | 07:28 |
| rainemak | the magical sb2 is not well documented | 07:29 |
| rubdos[m] | Upstream Rust 1.64 (https://github.com/sailfishos/rust/pull/19) requires the statx syscall, which is currently not supported by sb2. I decided to revert the specific patch (which has been done by Jolla in the past) that introduces the statx dependency. It turns out to be a rather trivial revert, but Jolla might oppose on introducing that complexity. Instead they could opt to implement statx in sb2. | 07:29 |
| direc85[m] | On that note, I managed to install the necessary Rust and LLVM packages in Sailfish SDK and successfully build Whisperfish with Rust 1.72.1 for i486. | 07:29 |
| flypig | What is statx for? | 07:30 |
| rubdos[m] | #info Jolla has to choose whether to support statx in sb2 or maintain revert patches for Rust. | 07:30 |
| rubdos[m] | statx is used for time64 on 32-bit platforms | 07:30 |
| flypig | Thanks for clarifying. That helps make it a bit more concrete. | 07:31 |
| rubdos[m] | It's going to become increasingly cumbersome to maintain the patches, but at the moment they're rather trivial | 07:31 |
| rubdos[m] | We could also opt to patch upstream Rust and add a meego or jolla vendor target, but that's quite an endeavour on its own :'-) | 07:31 |
| rubdos[m] | (and we'll still require some patches that they would never want to accept anyway) | 07:31 |
| rubdos[m] | #info statx is used for time64 on 32-bit platforms | 07:32 |
| rainemak | not meego please | 07:32 |
| rainemak | if something, how about sb2 vendor target | 07:33 |
| rainemak | there's nothing jolla specific per se | 07:33 |
| rainemak | some food for thought | 07:34 |
| rubdos[m] | I fear that an sb2-target will open a can of worms that I would not intend to touch :'-) | 07:34 |
| rubdos[m] | food for thought indeed | 07:34 |
| rainemak | good discussion... let's move on | 07:35 |
| rubdos[m] | yes! | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) | 07:35 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:35 | |
| rainemak | #info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-26th-october-2023/16955/19 | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> As always, the Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job. | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have: | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 7 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked". | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 1 report issue got fixed already. | 07:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 1 report is still under investigation. | 07:35 |
| rainemak | as direc85[m] is here as well maybe you'd like to add some more input to the https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/4-0-1-48-sms-conversation-title-fields-overlap/4867 ? | 07:36 |
| flypig | Great work from both the bug team and Jolla. | 07:37 |
| flypig | direc85[m], it's cool that you know a pirate! | 07:38 |
| rainemak | We tried to reproduce it many ways and so far have not managed to reproduce it. | 07:38 |
| rainemak | Certainly we can continue the discussion on the issue as well. | 07:38 |
| direc85[m] | This is a bit from-the-hip as I did that a while ago. | 07:39 |
| rainemak | No worries there | 07:39 |
| direc85[m] | To me it occurs with XA2 Ultra only, with all text sizes. There's an additional layout glitch in portrait orientation too. | 07:40 |
| direc85[m] | My device has gone through many OTA updates, so I could try reflashing it and see if that fixes the issue. | 07:40 |
| rainemak | I could do the same as well. | 07:41 |
| rainemak | All in the all, like flypig put it, great work | 07:42 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | I was able to to reproduce this one with 10 III. It wasn't obvious at first, but I scrolled the conversation slowly up and down and suddenly the overlap took place. | 07:42 |
| rainemak | #info Great work from both the bug team and Jolla. | 07:42 |
| rainemak | tuplasuhveli[m], my any chance did you happen to rotate the device whilst scrolling? | 07:43 |
| rainemak | by | 07:43 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | No, I use locked orientation. | 07:44 |
| rainemak | like wise | 07:44 |
| rainemak | but that's one factor there as landscape works differently | 07:44 |
| rainemak | Let's move on to the general discussion | 07:44 |
| rainemak | #topic General discussion (5 min) | 07:45 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:45 | |
| rainemak | #info Daylight saving time ends at 29th Oct and clocks are turned backward 1 hour. | 07:45 |
| poetaster | moin, all. sorry to be late. | 07:45 |
| rainemak | flypig, you'll finally get your extra hour :-) | 07:45 |
| flypig | Hei poetaster! | 07:45 |
| flypig | I've been waiting for this hour all year! | 07:45 |
| direc85[m] | Me too! | 07:46 |
| poetaster | I lost the hour in debugging this morning. | 07:46 |
| rainemak | Hehe, that happens occasionally | 07:46 |
| flypig | Haha! Wisely "lost" I'm sure :) | 07:46 |
| flypig | Can I quickly ask about forum moderation. There's been a bit of disruption recently. | 07:46 |
| rainemak | sure | 07:47 |
| flypig | I didn't want to get involved (not my place) but would you/jolla mind if I try to be more active? I understand if you prefer me to keep out of it. | 07:47 |
| ExTechOp | Apparently no progress has been made on reproducing/fixing https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/4-1-0-23-4-0-1-48-4-4-0-64-4-5-0-16-no-notification-sounds-ringing-sms-alarm/4886 ? | 07:47 |
| rainemak | flypig, I see you as a trusted community member. Thus, I'd like if you'd be more active. | 07:49 |
| ExTechOp | I concur. | 07:49 |
| poetaster | Ditto. | 07:50 |
| Crabster | please | 07:50 |
| poetaster | It's becomming difficult to use the forum since I'm actively avoiding two users who, currently occuppy the 3 of the top seven threads. | 07:51 |
| thilo[m] | What is considered a good strategy? Currently i just try to keep out of toxic conversations... Would it help if more people speak against it? | 07:51 |
| flypig | Thanks; I'll be try to be responsible and adult :D | 07:51 |
| rainemak | Thank you flypig! | 07:51 |
| voidanix[m] | Speaking against does not help, it looks like | 07:51 |
| Sailr | Thanks, flypig! | 07:52 |
| rainemak | thilo[m], there's no easy answer. | 07:52 |
| thilo[m] | voidanix[m]: But just leaving them the conversation an visibility is dangerous as well.. | 07:52 |
| thilo[m] | Hey, cool.. We're a small politics lab now... | 07:53 |
| poetaster | I hate to say it but I'm for three strikes you're banned. | 07:53 |
| rainemak | this is what we used to use | 07:54 |
| rainemak | https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/Collaborate/IRC_Guidelines/ | 07:54 |
| rainemak | personally think that works well to forum as well | 07:54 |
| thilo[m] | Recently I feel some love for banning in me too .. | 07:54 |
| poetaster | it's suck. but life is short. | 07:55 |
| rainemak | let's move on | 07:55 |
| rainemak | we don't need to solve this now | 07:56 |
| thilo[m] | I'd like to have an option to report borderline illegal stuff | 07:56 |
| rainemak | #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min) | 07:56 |
| rainemak | Proposing Thursday 9th November at 07:00am UTC. | 07:56 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 26th Oct 2023)" | 07:56 | |
| direc85[m] | Isn't that 09:00 EET? | 07:58 |
| Nico | Thanks for the DST reminder <3 | 07:59 |
| direc85[m] | I mean, 9 o'clock works better for me, just making sure it's intentional :) | 08:00 |
| voidanix[m] | I think that's 9am CET | 08:00 |
| rainemak | It's not intentional. Even though I raised daily light saving ending :-) | 08:00 |
| direc85[m] | :') | 08:01 |
| rainemak | I should be 08:00 UTC, how does that sound like? | 08:02 |
| rainemak | that should give that long requested hour for flypig :-= | 08:02 |
| rainemak | :-) | 08:02 |
| flypig | Sopii! | 08:02 |
| rainemak | Kiitos | 08:02 |
| ExTechOp | I'd also prefer 10:00+02:00 so 08:00Z | 08:02 |
| rainemak | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 9th November 2023 at 08:00am UTC: 2023-11-09T0800Z | 08:03 |
| rainemak | Thanks | 08:03 |
| rainemak | Thank you everyone for the meeting! | 08:03 |
| ExTechOp | Thanks everyone! | 08:03 |
| flypig | Thanks rainemak and everyone! | 08:03 |
| rainemak | #endmeeting | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Oct 26 08:03:42 2023 UTC. | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-10-26-07.00.html | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-10-26-07.00.txt | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-10-26-07.00.log.html | 08:03 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 26th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-26th-october-2023/16955" | 08:03 | |
| direc85[m] | Thank you! | 08:03 |
| poetaster | Thanks! | 08:03 |
| Crabster | thx #? | 08:04 |
| Sailr | Thanks | 08:04 |
| karry | thank you for discussion | 08:04 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | By the way, after a reboot and deactivating all the patches, I'm no longer able to reproduce the bug with SMS on 10 III. I'll post to the related topic, if I'm able to reproduce it again. | 08:07 |
| poetaster | ah, good to know. | 08:08 |
| rainemak | tuplasuhveli[m], in between of the lines that's what I was wondering as well | 08:11 |
| rainemak | and thank you tuplasuhveli[m] | 08:15 |
| rubdos[m] | Thanks from me too! Meanwhile I went to the office :') | 08:22 |
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