| Crabster | morning | 07:37 |
|---|---|---|
| ViGe | morning | 07:47 |
| direc85[m] | Good morning | 07:52 |
| rainemak | Good morning | 07:56 |
| rainemak | Hoping to have lively discussion regarding community communication needs | 07:57 |
| ExTechOp | Good Morning, everyone! | 07:59 |
| rainemak | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025 | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Feb 13 08:00:01 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 08:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025)" | 08:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 08:00 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-13th-february-2025/21897 | 08:00 |
| rainemak | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 08:00 |
| rainemak | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 08:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025)" | 08:00 | |
| ExTechOp | #info Otto Mäkelä, community | 08:00 |
| abr | #info Andrew Branson, sailing by | 08:00 |
| ViGe | #info Ville Nummela, community | 08:00 |
| direc85[m] | #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla | 08:01 |
| Crabster | #info Crabster - lurker | 08:01 |
| flypig_ | #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community (& bad connection) | 08:01 |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla | 08:01 |
| dcaliste | #info Damien Caliste, community | 08:02 |
| nephros | #info Peter G. - Community (lurking today) | 08:02 |
| pvuorela | #info Pekka Vuorela, Jolla | 08:03 |
| rainemak | flypig_, noted bad connection | 08:04 |
| rainemak | #topic Community communication tools and needs (10mins -- asked by rainemak) | 08:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Community communication tools and needs (10mins -- asked by rainemak) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025)" | 08:05 | |
| rainemak | #info <rainemak> Discuss started at FOSDEM BoF about community communication | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <rainemak> channels and methods. We should try to find ways how could | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <rainemak> we communicate better with AsteroidOS and other projects | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <rainemak> near by. We do have our usual fortnight newsletters and IRC | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <rainemak> meetings. How should we evolve & improve in this front? | 08:05 |
| rainemak | Before I start throwing my ideas / thoughts how do you see this? | 08:06 |
| nephros | I was thinking about having a kind of "Community Feature Roadmap" and process. | 08:06 |
| nephros | Where *someone" collects Community needs or Projects (or feature requests). | 08:07 |
| rainemak | "Community Feature Roadmap" is a good idea | 08:07 |
| nephros | Communicates where what work is happening, and where Jolla comes in. | 08:07 |
| rainemak | We'll also setup a bugs project to sailfishos github | 08:07 |
| nephros | Also have a process where Jolla can say, OK, here we will collaborate. | 08:07 |
| rainemak | +1 | 08:08 |
| dcaliste | From my experience (and pvuorela), we have been recently contacted by people from UBports since they want to use more the upstream QMF. We chatted by visio a bit to setup things and the immediate action was to enable the issue in messagingframework Github repo, so we can exchange on issues and current work. | 08:09 |
| rainemak | Should have something easily accessible for discussing between community members. IRC is a heavy tool for many. | 08:09 |
| flypig_ | Love this idea. I wonder if Sailmates has a role here too? https://sailmates.net/ | 08:10 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, let's test that with issues repository => I'd rather steer issues in one place and start building that | 08:10 |
| nephros | Agreed, IRC is not ideal for "architectural" discussion. | 08:10 |
| nephros | Github also has this "Discussions" feature | 08:10 |
| abr | good mention for sailmates. i think they should definitely be involved. | 08:10 |
| dcaliste | rainemak, indeed, I agree. My post was more about opening common issues and the QMF repo was an example. I was not clear. | 08:11 |
| ExTechOp | Some variant of Matrix might work, it can be bridged to the "traditional" itc | 08:11 |
| rainemak | nephros, let's investigate discussions feature | 08:11 |
| rainemak | How do you feel / see platforms like Slack, Discord, Signal, ...? | 08:12 |
| nephros | ... mailing list? ;P | 08:12 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, yeap. Even Matrix directly - we already have a bridge. | 08:12 |
| abr | telegram/irc/matrix are very bridgeable and accessible | 08:12 |
| ExTechOp | Please let's not get hung up on one commercial setup like Slack or Discord. Signal is based on a nonprofit so it is a bit nicer. | 08:13 |
| rainemak | One practical thing could be that we plug in IRC logs to the Salfish OS forum via discourse plugin | 08:13 |
| ViGe | Personally I would prefer something that's bridged to irc. I don't use matrix or telegram. | 08:13 |
| rainemak | I'd like to see more active discussion which would not be async like this. Maybe once a month some kind of "Ask me anything" session. | 08:14 |
| nephros | I would definitely prefer something not "realtime" i.e. not a chet. | 08:14 |
| direc85[m] | Slack has threads, and IIRC it's an experimental feature in Matrix as well. | 08:15 |
| rainemak | Let's extend this by 5mins as we do not have any other topics | 08:15 |
| rainemak | Also something like planet.sailfishos.org could help to bring in projects that are using same components | 08:16 |
| abr | Slack doesn't support replies though, and everything being a thread gets very confusing. i really don't get on with slack personally. | 08:16 |
| rainemak | I also find Slack threads confusing | 08:16 |
| rainemak | Signal is quite popular and we also have a native client | 08:16 |
| abr | it's a good idea that whatever is said should be accessible on the web with no need for an account on anything | 08:16 |
| dcaliste | planet.sailfishos.org would be nice to know whats going on in the different upstream projects Sailfish are developping. | 08:17 |
| ExTechOp | Also, as I said, I'd like it not be attached to one commercial company large enough to have been given a NSL. Both Slack and Discord (being US-based) certainly have been given one. | 08:17 |
| rainemak | abr, and for that creating a discourse plugin for IRC would help => making IRC logs searchable through the Forum search field | 08:17 |
| dcaliste | Do you have an idea how to populate it ? With flypig or piggz blogs for instance ? | 08:18 |
| direc85[m] | abr, +1 | 08:18 |
| nephros | Could also add some Fedi things like Mastodon (which is easy because RSS). | 08:19 |
| rainemak | nephros, could you elaborate? | 08:20 |
| rainemak | 5mins more | 08:20 |
| rainemak | Sounds that we should not go towards Slack or Discord | 08:20 |
| nephros | rainemak: on what? Mastodon? | 08:21 |
| rainemak | nephros, do you mean RSS feed from Mastodon? | 08:21 |
| rainemak | I somehow find Whisperfish development and bridging that with community somehow fascinating | 08:22 |
| nephros | Yes. Invent a hashtag for this "community roadmap" activity and follow/subscribe that. USe the RSS feed to integrate to plante.s.o. | 08:22 |
| rainemak | +1 | 08:22 |
| nephros | Whisperfish AFAIK are using MAtrix heavily. | 08:23 |
| rainemak | should be accessible on the web with no need for an account on anything | 08:23 |
| rainemak | it's a Signal client | 08:23 |
| abr | you could call a network of bridges between different chat services mirroring the same message between different services and the web some sort of 'fishing net' :D | 08:24 |
| rainemak | no comments regarding 'Ask me anything' | 08:25 |
| abr | rainemak: i think he means they use matrix for their dev chat. all their CI is integrated into it. it's very nice. | 08:25 |
| rainemak | abr, ah, I see | 08:25 |
| rainemak | I'm really thinking that we should have a "telco line" everynowandthen | 08:25 |
| Keto | I see all kinds of solution ideas, but maybe problem being solved is a bit fuzzy? | 08:26 |
| rainemak | whatever that "telco line" means | 08:26 |
| rainemak | Keto, this was raised at FOSDEM. Let's AsteroidOS devs have hard times to follow what's going on | 08:27 |
| rainemak | And I do want to see open discussion before we implement something | 08:27 |
| direc85[m] | We have a Matrix channel where we have Whisperfish devs but also people who develop other clients using libsignal-service-rs as well. It's worked quite well I'd say. And the CI integration is nice (but sometimes it get a little noisy). | 08:27 |
| abr | it looks great | 08:28 |
| flypig_ | Agreed, it does look nice from the outside! | 08:28 |
| rainemak | planet.sailfishos.org like an idea was also raised during FOSDEM BoF | 08:28 |
| rainemak | and IRC is not really good for new comers | 08:29 |
| flypig_ | What material would be included in planet.sailfishos.org? It sounds like a nice idea to pull things all to one place, but if I understand correctly it's not for discussion, more for news? | 08:29 |
| rainemak | not for discussion, true | 08:29 |
| rainemak | there's plenty of ideas already. let's digest these and conclude to the 13th IRC meeting forum topic. | 08:30 |
| rainemak | if no objections, let's move forward | 08:31 |
| rainemak | #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) | 08:31 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025)" | 08:31 | |
| rainemak | Anybody, anything | 08:32 |
| rubdos[m] | Bit late to the party, but +1 on Matrix + IRC bridge | 08:32 |
| rubdos[m] | #info Ruben De Smet, community | 08:32 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], np. | 08:33 |
| rubdos[m] | Do we have a "community wiki"? I had a support question for Whisperfish (in German, had to dust off my language skills), and that question was raised | 08:34 |
| rubdos[m] | I asked to execute rm -rf .local/share/.../whisperfish, and the person said they had to enable dev mode and don't know how to do it | 08:34 |
| rainemak | docs.sailfishos.org kind of is that | 08:34 |
| rainemak | not necessarily wiki like easy to edit but not too difficult either | 08:35 |
| rubdos[m] | and afaik there's not really a place that documents how to get those things going for non-linux people | 08:35 |
| rainemak | docs.sailfishos.org as well | 08:35 |
| direc85[m] | There's https://sailfishos.wiki/ as well | 08:36 |
| rubdos[m] | direc85[m]: that looks more in the spirit of what I'm after | 08:36 |
| rubdos[m] | (sorry, I thought that still belonged to the previous topic) | 08:36 |
| rainemak | #topic General discussion (10 mins) | 08:37 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (10 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025)" | 08:37 | |
| rainemak | ^ let's make it belong to the general discussion | 08:37 |
| rubdos[m] | :) | 08:37 |
| rubdos[m] | Let me quickly get that mail | 08:37 |
| ExTechOp | So, still nothing new from Sony about the Xperia 10V firmware update? | 08:37 |
| abr | I didn't know about that other wiki. nice! | 08:37 |
| ViGe | rubdos[m]: https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/ contains quite a lot of information aimed at non-linux people | 08:38 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, unfortunately not | 08:38 |
| rubdos[m] | > To enter the code provided in the link, I'll probably have to start developer mode to be able to use the terminal. This is all new to me, but I'll give it a try. Do you have to register for developer mode? Lots of questions, I know. Is there a basic wiki on how to use this function? Then I don't have to bother you any more... :0) | 08:38 |
| ViGe | rubdos[m]: like https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Enabling_Developer_Mode/ | 08:38 |
| rubdos[m] | ViGe: Any chance we can start localizing these? | 08:38 |
| rubdos[m] | Given that I get support questions in German (and I answer in German; had the same before in French and Dutch), it'd be really neat to have localized docs for those things. | 08:39 |
| ExTechOp | rainemak Would it be possible to remind them that the whole release is pretty much stuck at this point unless they do something? | 08:41 |
| ViGe | rubdos[m]: I'm afraid just-the-docs doesn't support localization, at least not out of the box. But it looks like people have created all sorts of workarounds, so it might be possible: https://github.com/just-the-docs/just-the-docs/issues/59 | 08:41 |
| rubdos[m] | I was also thinking that a community wiki could involve a listing of popular apps (of course, one that mentions Whisperfish 😉), and some general "how to get started", in a broader sense than a UI tutorial. A bit more "opinionated", let's say. But that's just me having random ideas before the caffeïne starts kicking in today | 08:43 |
| rubdos[m] | ViGe that sounds interesting indeed! | 08:45 |
| rubdos[m] | I think I'd be after something slightly less formal. A lot of information exists on the forum, but that lacks some structure that'd be necessary for these sort of users. | 08:46 |
| rubdos[m] | Anyway, just my random thoughts. | 08:46 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], agree on that | 08:46 |
| rainemak | and forum is hard to make (or even impossible) structured | 08:47 |
| ViGe | so, a bit more structure than what's on the forum, and a bit less formal than docs.sailfishos.org. A middle ground so to speak. | 08:47 |
| rainemak | ViGe, nicely summarized | 08:48 |
| ExTechOp | I concur, it would be nice if the information about how to install SFOS on each hardware could be structured (with of course links back to "official" pages) in a format where one could compare difficulty and so on. | 08:48 |
| rubdos[m] | yes please 🙏 | 08:48 |
| rubdos[m] | Yes, that would fit perfectly in such a space ExTechOp | 08:48 |
| ExTechOp | It will of course require continual maintenance and update | 08:49 |
| rubdos[m] | Which is probably exactly why it currently doesn't exist :D | 08:49 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, to clarify, are you referring to existing hardware adaptations or "install" == creating an adaptation | 08:50 |
| rainemak | are good to schedule the next IRC meeting | 08:51 |
| rainemak | #topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins) | 08:51 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (2 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 13th February 2025)" | 08:51 | |
| rainemak | Proposing Thursday 27th February at 08:00am UTC | 08:51 |
| ExTechOp | Mostly existing adaptations, but of course good documentation like this could lower the threshold for implementing new ones. | 08:52 |
| ExTechOp | Works4me. | 08:52 |
| ExTechOp | No objections, anyone? | 08:54 |
| rainemak | Going once... | 08:54 |
| rainemak | Going twice... | 08:54 |
| rainemak | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 27th February 2025 at 08:00am UTC: 2025-02-27T0800Z | 08:54 |
| rainemak | #endmeeting | 08:54 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Feb 13 08:54:51 2025 UTC. | 08:54 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-02-13-08.00.html | 08:54 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-02-13-08.00.txt | 08:54 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-02-13-08.00.log.html | 08:54 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 13th February 2025 at 08:00am UTC: 2025-02-13T0800Z" | 08:54 | |
| rubdos[m] | <3 | 08:54 |
| ExTechOp | Thank you, everyone! Hope things can be made to move forward! | 08:55 |
| rainemak | Thank you everybody! I'll summarize later this afternoon something to the forum | 08:55 |
| dcaliste | Thank you for the ideas on community discussions and exchanges. | 08:55 |
| direc85[m] | Thank you everyone! | 08:56 |
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