Thursday, 2025-06-19

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o sailbot09:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o rainemak14:45
rainemakhello14:45
rainemakand happy midsummers14:46
tuplasuhveli[m]Happy midsummer everyone! By the way, nice announcement on the forum :P14:49
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m], which one of them?14:53
rainemakI'll link them to the meeting14:55
NicoI am impressed, I managed to schedule one meeting concurrently to the Sailfish one today, even though today is a holiday and I don't even need to work...14:56
rainemak:-)14:56
tuplasuhveli[m]rainemak I mean the one about free updates to C2 :--) I haven't noticed  any other announcements recently!14:58
CLMA31[m]Happy mid summer!14:59
tuplasuhveli[m]Ah, I saw the one about community meeting as well, I just already forgot :D14:59
rainemak#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 202515:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Jun 19 15:00:11 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.15:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"15:00
rainemak#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:15:00
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-19th-june-2025-new-time-slot/2337315:00
rainemakI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.15:00
rainemak#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info15:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"15:00
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla15:00
Nico#info Nico, Community15:00
tuplasuhveli[m]#info tuplasuhveli, community15:00
rainemaknice to have you here as well tuplasuhveli[m]15:01
rainemakhello Nico15:01
mal#info mal, Jolla15:01
NicoI think I just messed up timezones15:01
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m] familiar nick from forum15:01
rainemak^ is a familiar15:02
rainemakhi mal15:02
CLMA31[m]#info CLMA31, community15:02
NicoI somehow assumed the meeting would be an hour later :D15:02
rainemakWhile we do not have formally introduced topics, we could discuss on the pulley15:04
rainemakmenu activation raised by Fellfrosch.15:04
rainemakWe published two annouchment topics today15:04
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/jolla-community-meeting-live-stream-2nd-july-from-tampere/2349315:04
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/long-term-sailfish-os-updates-free-of-charge-for-all-jolla-c2/2349115:04
rainemaklet's discuss at least on the pulley menu15:05
rainemak#topic A long standing major UX problem with pulley menus in long lists (10 mins -- Fellfrosch)15:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "A long standing major UX problem with pulley menus in long lists (10 mins -- Fellfrosch) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"15:05
rainemak#info <Fellfrosch> I’m still thinking that a two fingers swipe would be a simple15:05
rainemak#info <Fellfrosch> and elegant solution. But of course other solutions are as15:05
rainemak#info <Fellfrosch> well better than waiting another decade. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:15:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> We should put this into a bit of context first. In what kind of15:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> use cases you're hitting this issue, how ofter you're hitting,15:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> would fast scroller help, and so on before raising this as15:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> a major UX problem. Surely, this is good food for thought.15:06
rainemakThere are different aspect as well that must be considered. As a developer,15:06
rainemakdo you need to be able to disable this proposed behaviour in some cases.15:06
rainemakThink a mapping application and using SilicaFlickable allow it to flick15:06
rainemakon x-axis and y-axis. You probably would like to utilize two fingers for15:06
rainemakpinch-to-zoom.15:06
CLMA31[m]I can't participate in the call or don't know if these messages will be visible during the meeting. I would like to ask a light question related to the QT6 update (sorry in advance). Is there a roadmap to move Silica to use QT6 and give up on the QT5.6? I have zero SW knowledge but it seems to at least according the forum discussions one huge problem and personally I try to understand the road blocks better as SailfishOS seems so15:07
CLMA31[m]great15:07
rainemakCLMA31[m], thanks... let's cover that one after this pulley topic15:08
NicoI think I haven't had issues with pulley menu+lists in ages. Usually the pulley menu gives me an option to refresh or otherwise update the list, in which case my scroll position isn't useful to be kept anyway15:08
rainemakNico, afaiu it's in the middle of a really long list where you hit this issue15:08
rainemakhow do you activate the pulley? answer, currently only by going back to the beginning of the list15:09
NicoI would probably prefer to keep like a 2 finger gesture for enabling items, that require you to reach to the top of the phone, since that can be an issue when you 2 hand a larger phone15:09
Nicorainemak: Yes, but fast scrolling to the start of the list to activate the pulley in those cases is fine, since I would often have to parse the list from the top again anyway15:09
NicoI only think reaching the pulley is an issue if you want to keep your scroll position or don't have fast scroll to the top15:10
NicoBut maybe has some good examples, where I am wrong15:10
rainemakindeed... but with some event filtering there could be options as well... and app developer would be able to choose. However, that would eventually create inconsistency.15:11
tuplasuhveli[m]Nico just wrote what I was going to write. But I think there is an example, where it is important to maintain the current (or previous, after activating a pulley meny)15:11
tuplasuhveli[m]...position15:11
NicoWell, I would like to see the example, I guess. Because that makes it easier to evaluate how a gesture for the pulley would help :)15:12
rainemakby inconsistency I mean that some apps would have pulley working differently than with others15:12
tuplasuhveli[m]Yeah, I'm currently reading the previous topic about this to find out if such case exists.15:12
rainemakfurther, is the pulley the right component for that particular app in the first place15:13
NicoSome examples are multi selection in the gallery app, at least in the forum thread. I think there moving that to the long press menu would just make more sense15:15
rainemakNico, correct15:15
tuplasuhveli[m]You were faster than me, again :D Yes, I think a long press would solve that issue. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with the current pulley menus15:16
rainemakgood discussion... shall we move on15:16
rainemaklet's move on15:17
rainemak#topic I would like to ask a light question related to the QT6 update (5mins -- CLMA31[m])15:17
*** sailbot changes topic to "I would like to ask a light question related to the QT6 update (5mins -- CLMA31[m]) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"15:17
rainemak#info <CLMA31[m]> Is there a roadmap to move Silica to use QT6 and give up on the15:17
rainemak#info <CLMA31[m]> QT5.6? I have zero SW knowledge but it seems to at least according15:17
rainemak#info <CLMA31[m]> the forum discussions one huge problem and personally I try to15:17
rainemak#info <CLMA31[m]> understand the road blocks better as SailfishOS seems so.15:17
maland also in case there are some global things you might want to do to a scroll list it would be possible to have some bar at the top, not exactly sfos style but bossible15:17
NicoMaybe this should just be called out in the documentation about when a pulley might be preferred and when other solutions?15:17
mal*possible15:17
rainemakmal, to toolbar at the bottom15:17
NicoBut otherwise finding good cases of where the gesture would be the best option on the forum sounds reasonable to me15:17
Nicoye, let's move on15:17
malyes, toolbar could be either at top or bottom, which ever is preferred15:18
malmaybe bottom would be more sailfish style, some places have it15:18
maland easier to use15:18
rainemak#info <Jolla> Nothing really to update on the matter.15:19
rainemak^ for CLMA31[m]15:19
rainemaklet's continue toolbar discussion in the general topic15:20
CLMA31[m]You probably can't say but I will try. Is it more of a financial problem, a human resource one or won't QT allow it?15:20
NicoClearly Qt6 will happen in SailfishOS 6.0, that would be the easiest to remember!15:21
rainemakNico, that's nice one15:21
CLMA31[m]Does Jolla think it will happen at some point or will you write it from scratch not using QT at all?15:21
rainemakCLMA31[m], let's see what happens ;-)15:22
CLMA31[m]Nico: This would make sense😂15:22
NicoCLMA31, but also totally made up15:22
CLMA31[m]Ah the uncertainty. I just wish to see you thrive so hopefully you have had master plan all the time!15:23
CLMA31[m]Nico: Yea thought so15:23
NicoIf there will be a qt6 launch event at some point for Sailfish, I'll buy a flight ticket to Finnland to attend :D15:24
rainemakI guess we have covered this... let's move on15:25
rainemak#topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)15:25
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"15:25
rainemakpersonally I don't have any15:26
rainemakmaybe directly to general discussion15:27
rainemak#topic General discussion (10 mins)15:27
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (10 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"15:27
Nicome neither15:27
rainemakmaybe worthy here to ask that have you feel about this new time slot?15:27
NicoI'm still confused, I really thought the meeting would be 1h later :D15:27
tuplasuhveli[m]At least now I feel like I'm awake, which is nice15:28
NicoApart from that it was easier for me to attend and I guess we had new faces15:28
rainemakYou're right... I'm one hour early :-)15:28
NicoHah!15:28
rainemakthen we have two of these :-)15:29
NicoOne time it isn't me getting confused about timezones15:29
Nicootoh, I did get confused anyway...15:29
rainemakHi ExTechOp15:29
CLMA31[m]At least for me this would be better time slot. Of course don't know how often I would actually attend15:29
Nico(And I have stuff to attend to in 30min anyway, because of an unfortunate clash, but otherwise the later timeslot seems great to me)15:29
rainemakDo we need another meeting in 30mins still ?15:30
NicoMaybe the person who asked the pulley topic will show up?15:31
tuplasuhveli[m]Perhaps we'll see if others will join15:31
NicoAnd people who had that time in their calendar15:31
NicoHard to compare the timeslot choice this way15:31
rainemakYeap, we'll need to check that15:31
ExTechOpDammit, I seem to be 30 minutes late?15:31
ExTechOpHi rainemak15:31
NicoExTechOp, we were 30 min early15:31
rainemakNope, you're 30mins early :-)15:31
Nicotimezones are hard15:31
tuplasuhveli[m]I didn't even plan to participate, but I saw the notification of raine's first message and decided to stick around :D15:32
rainemakit happens and hopefully not harm done.15:32
rainemakwe just have a long meeting for the mid summer :-)15:33
ExTechOpHint: the "date" command also has a "--utc" option15:33
rainemakExTechOp, it just me in hurry the whole afternoon15:34
NicoDoesn't help, when you are not sure what timezone a date is in15:34
FellfroschIt's bank holiday at my place, so no hurry today.15:34
NicoSame here, holiday, so my feeling for time went out the window15:35
rainemakFellfrosch, we'll take your question again for sure15:36
FellfroschThat's fine, thanx.15:36
rainemakFellfrosch, my apologies, we start 1hour early15:37
rainemakFellfrosch, my apologies, we started 1hour early15:37
FellfroschAh so I got the time wrong?15:37
ExTechOpFrom the /topic "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 19th June 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-06-19T1600Z":15:37
ExTechOp% date -d "19 June 2025 16:00 UTC"15:37
ExTechOp2025-06-19T19:00:00 EEST15:37
NicoWe'll just give you double the props for putting in the effort for 2(!) meetings15:37
rainemakFellfrosch, nope, you're on right time15:38
rainemakExTechOp, that was not the issue at all15:38
CLMA31[m]<tuplasuhveli[m]> "I didn't even plan to participat..." <- Happened kind of same and I wouldn't have been able to participate in the correct time so this was perfect!15:40
NicoSo the lesson from this is, 2 meetings are better than one?15:40
NicoThat sounds like a lot of work15:40
CLMA31[m]I have to leave now. I hope everyone has a great mid summer! Thanks to everyone who makes SailfishOS better and more suitable for dummies like myself <315:41
rainemakCLMA31[m], tuplasuhveli[m] : glad to hear that15:46
rainemakCLMA31[m], thank you for your participation15:47
rainemakand have a great mid summer you too15:48
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o ViGe15:55
rainemakhi ViGe15:56
ViGehi15:56
rainemakand happy mid summer15:56
ViGesame to you. Looks like you have been busy today, writing all kinds of announcements :-D15:57
rainemakI accidentally started 1hour early... so meeting won't start in a way, it just goes back to beginning15:57
Saltpie[m]I was wondering if there is any progress made in WPA3 Support for WiFi connectivity in Sailfisch OS. Since the last time I asked.15:58
rainemakSaltpie[m], not really...15:58
direc85[m]hello everyone15:59
rainemakhi direc85[m]16:00
FellfroschHi16:00
ExTechOpHello!16:00
rainemakas meeting is already "running" let's just have introduction again16:00
rainemak#topic Brief introduction (5 min) -- 2nd round. Please prefix your name/handle with #info16:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min) -- 2nd round. Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"16:00
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla16:00
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community16:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela, community16:00
Fellfrosch#info Uli Müller, community16:01
direc85[m]#info Matti Viljanen, Jolla16:02
piesalad[m]#info tfinn, community16:02
tuplasuhveli[m]#info tuplasuhveli, community16:02
rainemakWhile we do not have formally introduced topics, let's discuss on the pulley16:02
rainemakmenu activation raised by Fellfrosch.16:02
rainemakwe already had good discussion on it...16:02
rainemak2 mins still for intro16:03
rainemakall right, let's get going16:05
rainemak#topic A long standing major UX problem with pulley menus in long lists (10 mins -- Fellfrosch) - part216:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "A long standing major UX problem with pulley menus in long lists (10 mins -- Fellfrosch) - part2 (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"16:05
rainemak#info <Fellfrosch> I’m still thinking that a two fingers swipe would be a simple16:05
rainemak#info <Fellfrosch> and elegant solution. But of course other solutions are as16:05
rainemak#info <Fellfrosch> well better than waiting another decade. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:16:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> We should put this into a bit of context first. In what kind of16:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> use cases you're hitting this issue, how ofter you're hitting,16:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> would fast scroller help, and so on before raising this as16:05
rainemak#info <Jolla> a major UX problem. Surely, this is good food for thought.16:05
rainemakThere are different aspect as well that must be considered. As a developer,16:05
rainemakdo you need to be able to disable this proposed behaviour in some cases.16:05
rainemakThink a mapping application and using SilicaFlickable allow it to flick16:05
rainemakon x-axis and y-axis. You probably would like to utilize two fingers for16:05
rainemakpinch-to-zoom.16:05
piesalad[m]I read the messages on it. I can get why it would be usefull, to note the scrolling position and return to it. Even though it would make it a little bit inconsistence it would be nice to be able to use the pully menu while not being at the top or bottom. The two finger gesture seams to kill the one hand usability, for holding and using the phone.16:06
FellfroschI already given up on the two fingers because of map solutions.16:06
rainemakAs a developer, have you chosen the right component for correct purpose?16:06
FellfroschI often have this problem. On Mail and on file management16:06
FellfroschSome apps already have a solution16:06
Fellfroschlike filecase.16:07
ViGeFellfrosch: what kind of solution is that?16:07
rainemakFile Manager probably would deserve a bottom toolbar as there are easily so many actions16:07
FellfroschThat's the solution @ephros proposed16:07
FellfroschThe solution with a fixed header16:07
Fellfroschsee over here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/solving-the-issue-with-pulldown-up-menus/9315/1616:08
rainemakon some cases it might be so that action should not actually be pulley action rather in the context menu16:08
FellfroschYes but I think search and mark multiple items is in pulley at the right place16:09
ViGeThe fixed header solution is nice as it's still usable with one hand16:09
Fellfroschbut than it's hard to get there16:09
direc85[m]a fixed header is one solution, but bottom menu can also help in some use cases. whisperfish doesn't have neither on the chat page, perhaps bottom menu is worth experimenting with16:10
tuplasuhveli[m]For example, the community version of File Browser (available on openrepos), uses long-press for various different actions, including selecting multiple items16:10
rainemakdirec85[m], bottom toolbar (menu) would work for many cases indeed16:11
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m], it's tiny little bit overloading of the contextual part of the menu... but yes, can be used as well16:12
FellfroschI for myself can live with ANY solution. even so I find the fixed header solution quite elegant. Probably we have on any solution the problem, that the developers have to built it into the apps on their own.16:12
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m], "global action" vs something that is effective and actionable within the long-press context16:12
FellfroschA global gesture would solve this problem. But I think it makes it to complicated to find a proper one.16:13
rainemakFellfrosch, how do you feel, did you get a satisfactory answer?16:15
direc85[m]the static title takes up some screen space, but it could be hidden when scrolling down and shown when scrolling up. something like what happens with browser for example.16:15
rainemakdirec85[m], or in the Documents app16:15
FellfroschI'm satisfied sofar, as you recognized, that there is still a problem with UX. THanx.16:16
rainemakFellfrosch, yes and no16:16
rainemakraising that to a major is bit too much I'd say16:16
rainemakalright, let's move on16:17
rainemak#topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)16:17
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"16:17
rainemakI don't have any16:18
rainemaklet's move on to the general discussion part 216:21
rainemak#topic General discussion part 2 (10 mins)16:21
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion part 2 (10 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"16:21
FellfroschWhat's the state of Xperia 10 V?16:22
rainemakI'd like to understand how does this kind of a afternoon time slot works for everybody?16:22
FellfroschFor me it makes it possible to at least join from time to time.16:23
mala small update on the WPA3 question earlier, there was a work in progress test of wpa3 on sailfish and it worked on some device and with some hotspots but not all so it needs more work16:23
rainemakFellfrosch, not much progress lately I'd say. For the new blobs we'd need VoLTE, NFC and sensors... I am missing now one item I think.16:23
malgps16:23
rainemakthat one16:23
piesalad[m]rainemak: Cameras are already working?16:24
malgps and nfc are pretty much ready but no PRs yet, sensors in half way there or so, volte is still to be done16:24
Fellfroschthanx for this update16:24
malI had camera working in some test I did with the new blobs16:25
ExTechOprainemak This time is a bit more difficult for me, as I have to specifically set up for it after work, instead of just joining during a normal workday.16:25
rainemakExTechOp, but something that you can live with. My assumption is that this would work better for central Europe16:26
ExTechOprainmak I feel the 10V is not ready for production before these rather core functionalities are ready. And unless these happen at some reasonable pace, the phones might not soon even be available.16:28
piesalad[m]Sounds promising, although i thought that VoLTE was working but not for everyone. I did not really test it as I still use my other Phone until there is a stable/official non Beta release.16:28
rainemakpiesalad[m], VoLTE was only working with the previous blobs16:28
malthe new blobs use a different volte binder interface16:29
rainemakExTechOp, agree16:29
rainemaksounds to me that we're covered16:30
rainemaklet's schedule next meeting16:30
rainemak#topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins)16:30
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 19th June 2025)"16:30
rainemakProposing Thursday 3rd July at 04:00 PM UTC (19:00 HKI time)16:30
ExTechOp(And VoLTE was the reason I chose 10V over the Turkish phones, foolishly assuming software would be available)16:31
rainemakExTechOp, but C2 has VoLTE as well16:31
rainemakExTechOp, sorry to hear that16:32
ExTechOp(sorry, it was some other network-related feature then)16:32
rainemakObjections regarding time slot... Let's give a try to this slot for some time.16:32
rainemakExTechOp, maybe 5G16:33
ExTechOpYep, that was it16:33
ExTechOp3rd July works for me, and let's give this time slot more time to settle down.16:33
ViGeWell, on July 3rd this time slot might work for me - and I know for sure that the morning time slot does not work for me so...16:33
direc85[m]this time slot works well for me16:34
rainemakagreed then16:34
rainemak#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 3rd July 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-07-03T1600Z16:34
rainemakThank you everybody! Happy midsummer for all! See you in two weeks.16:35
ExTechOpWhich is 2025-07-03T19:00+030016:35
rainemak:-)16:35
ExTechOpJust in case :D16:35
Fellfroschthanx see U.16:35
ExTechOpThank you, everyone!16:35
direc85[m]happy midsummer everyone!16:36
ViGesame to you!16:36
rainemak#endmeeting16:36
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Jun 19 16:36:30 2025 UTC.16:36
sailbot Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-06-19-15.00.html16:36
sailbot Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-06-19-15.00.txt16:36
sailbot Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-06-19-15.00.log.html16:36
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 19th June 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-06-19T1600Z"16:36
piesalad[m]Thanks goodby16:36

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