| Marc | Good Morning Sailors ! | 06:31 |
|---|---|---|
| Venty[m] | Aye! | 06:34 |
| direc85[m] | good morning | 06:59 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o rainemak | 15:52 | |
| rainemak | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025 | 16:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Aug 14 16:00:00 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025)" | 16:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 16:00 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-14th-august-2025-new-time-slot/23669 | 16:00 |
| rainemak | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 16:00 |
| rainemak | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 16:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025)" | 16:00 | |
| rainemak | Community IRC meeting back from vacation and what a precise timing it was | 16:00 |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla | 16:00 |
| mal | #info mal, Jolla | 16:01 |
| direc85[m] | #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla | 16:01 |
| AffeNull[m] | #info Affe Null, community | 16:01 |
| pherjung[m] | #info pherjung, community | 16:01 |
| rainemak | We have one topic today but that's a quite interesting one. I reserved 20mins for it but it can be extended as needed. | 16:03 |
| rainemak | #topic new camera wrapper API - where to start? (20 mins -- affe_null) | 16:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "new camera wrapper API - where to start? (20 mins -- affe_null) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025)" | 16:05 | |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> In the last meeting, @mal suggested that a new camera API | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> could be developed to replace the existing QtMultimedia one. | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> This could be very useful both for implementing an advanced | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> camera app and for supporting ports based on libcamera. | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> I recently got libcamera working on the Jolla C2 with a | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> close-to-mainline kernel and can help with testing this. | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> I would also like to collect some ideas about the new API, e.g. | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> * should it still be based on gstreamer? | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> * should it still use the old GstPhotography API? | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> * should it be Sailfish-specific or can it be shared with | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> other mobile Linux projects? should it be Qt-specific? | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <affe_null> * which features need to be supported that are missing in the | 16:05 |
| rainemak | old API? | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Let’s start from needs/requirements. | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Faster Camera startup -> What are current bottlenecks? | 16:05 |
| rainemak | -> Analyze first | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Something easier to maintain and extend | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Upstream should be hosted @ github.com/sailfishos but end result | 16:05 |
| rainemak | does not have to be Sailfish-specific (preferably should not be Sailfish-specific) | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Can be shared with other mobile Linux projects | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Preferably Qt-less so C/C++, thin QML wrapper should be sufficient | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Support different low level camera things like gst-droid vs libcamera | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> * Consider PipeWire compatability (whatever that means from implementation point of view) | 16:06 |
| rainemak | Let's have an open discussion on this topic. | 16:06 |
| rainemak | Camera startup time was mentioned also in the Next gen Jolla Phone poll | 16:07 |
| mal | just a small comment to the lower level camera things support, it can be either via gstreamer or directly to droidmedia, depending on what is best way | 16:07 |
| rainemak | mal, agree on that | 16:07 |
| rainemak | AffeNull[m], what's your take on this? | 16:08 |
| AffeNull[m] | gstreamer might help with the encodings, but other than that it seems to make things more complicated (e.g. exposing camera controls) | 16:08 |
| AffeNull[m] | the proposed requirements sound good | 16:08 |
| CLMA31[m] | Sorry, I am a little late and can't participate fullest as I am on vacation, but I would like to understand related to this topic: would this new API also make it possible to do video recording, for example with C2? | 16:08 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], no worry... nice to see you | 16:08 |
| mal | yes, it has its benefits but also it is rather complex | 16:08 |
| mal | also whether the startup time is because of gstreamer or qtmultimedia needs to be checked | 16:09 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], see this https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/camera-app-hangs-immediately-after-pressing-record-video-button/24462/5?u=rainemak | 16:09 |
| CLMA31[m] | Amazing! Thank you Raine | 16:10 |
| rainemak | mal, yes, we do have a camera booster to preload libs and precompile QMLs but clearly that's not enough | 16:10 |
| AffeNull[m] | mal, could the startup time also be caused by the gst-droid plugins? | 16:11 |
| AffeNull[m] | IIRC running gst-inspect-1.0 also takes quite some time to initialize them | 16:11 |
| rainemak | by simplifying the pipeline usually you get better results... and see QtMultimedia quite a bit over engineered making many things quite difficult to add | 16:11 |
| mal | AffeNull[m]: it can be in gstreamer itself, gst-droid or droidmedia, or qtmultimedia | 16:11 |
| mal | I can do some timing checks with gst-inspect to see what I can find out | 16:12 |
| rainemak | thanks mal | 16:12 |
| mal | and as comparison I can check some camera on laptop or something using gstreamer to see how fast for example some v4l2 camera starts | 16:13 |
| rainemak | Implementation effort wise this is easily quite a big effort. Thus, would finalize camera2 api first. | 16:14 |
| rainemak | mal, good idea | 16:15 |
| CLMA31[m] | Can the new API be developed from the start as in open source collaboration with the community? | 16:15 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], yes, it should be like that | 16:15 |
| mal | maybe somewhere on forum there could be a thread with kind of wishlist for camera features? | 16:16 |
| CLMA31[m] | Great! Even tho I don't have skills to contribute on that front, there are a lot of super intelligent people who might help you to do the heavy lifting :) | 16:17 |
| rainemak | #action Create Forum topic regarding camera feature wishlist | 16:18 |
| CLMA31[m] | Thread would be amazing! The polls seem to generate a lot of buss in the forum | 16:18 |
| AffeNull[m] | Regarding the extensibility of the API, we need to define some standard set of camera controls to expose | 16:18 |
| mal | related to earlier question about c2 video recording https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-tampella-5-0-0-70-jolla-c2-only/24477 | 16:19 |
| rainemak | Nice! It went already out! | 16:21 |
| AffeNull[m] | There are two approaches to exposing camera controls: they can be exposed statically, like in the android HALs, or dynamically, similar to gstreamer. The latter is more extensible but also introduces additional complexity. | 16:21 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], please trigger an update from your Settings -> Sailfish OS | 16:22 |
| mal | or combination or ways, exposing the basic things statically and everything else via some generic command way | 16:22 |
| rainemak | combination could work | 16:22 |
| AffeNull[m] | that's a good idea. I think at least the zoom control should be exposed statically | 16:23 |
| mal | and more statically implemented parts could be added when needed | 16:23 |
| rainemak | simple and usual things sounds like a static | 16:23 |
| rainemak | AffeNull[m], mal : +1 | 16:23 |
| rainemak | extending topic by 10mins | 16:25 |
| mal | if anyone has any links for what is needed for pipewire compatiblity please give those, would help planning | 16:26 |
| AffeNull[m] | pipewire also has libcamera support, but I'm not sure how much control it provides | 16:28 |
| rainemak | at the same time we know that audio routing needs to be rewritten for pipewire | 16:28 |
| rainemak | I think that camera feature wishlist to the forum serves well for discussion and follow ups | 16:30 |
| rainemak | 5 mins left | 16:30 |
| rainemak | fantastic discussion! me appreciate. I'll note down that camera feature wishlist topic. | 16:34 |
| mal | camera2 should indeed be finished, it's not that far but some remaining issues | 16:34 |
| rainemak | alright, let's move on | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) | 16:35 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025)" | 16:35 | |
| rainemak | Anybody anything? | 16:37 |
| CLMA31[m] | I would like to thank everybody at Jolla from great work! I'm super excited about the possible new Jolla phone with better specs | 16:37 |
| rainemak | ^ let's take that on general discussion... but thank you already | 16:37 |
| rainemak | silence... let's move to the general discussion | 16:38 |
| CLMA31[m] | Ah sorry, never remember the PR=pull request.... | 16:38 |
| mal | just a mention that there is gcc 13 update PR finally | 16:38 |
| rainemak | no worry | 16:38 |
| rainemak | mal, that's true and very very close now | 16:38 |
| rainemak | we had one nasty qtdeclarative local storage crash to nail down | 16:39 |
| rainemak | alright, general it is | 16:40 |
| rainemak | #topic General discussion (10 mins) | 16:40 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (10 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025)" | 16:40 | |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], I'll update my template and open up that PR to avoid confusion | 16:40 |
| AffeNull[m] | Has anyone investigated why AppSupport appears to be slow on the C2? | 16:42 |
| rainemak | PR = public relations vs pull requests :-) | 16:42 |
| AffeNull[m] | It seems that Android apps have a low frame rate, sometimes below 30fps. | 16:42 |
| mal | how does cpu usage look like? | 16:42 |
| rainemak | and do you use some particular app | 16:43 |
| AffeNull[m] | I think this also happens with the built-in settings app | 16:44 |
| AffeNull[m] | scrolling is not really smooth | 16:44 |
| AffeNull[m] | But I'm not sure if this is still true, I haven't tested any official builds for a long time. | 16:44 |
| rainemak | AffeNull[m], do it start after some condition or is it present always | 16:45 |
| rainemak | does it | 16:45 |
| AffeNull[m] | I'll report more once I have more information. I was just wondering if anyone at Jolla has experienced this. | 16:46 |
| mal | settings app at least scrolled fine when i just tested | 16:46 |
| rainemak | same but like Android Firefox can be easily suffer that kind of symptoms <- there can be multitude of reasons why it triggers with web content | 16:47 |
| rainemak | AffeNull[m], thank you for the camera api topic | 16:49 |
| rainemak | that was good one | 16:49 |
| rainemak | I think it's time to settle next meeting | 16:50 |
| rainemak | if no other general topic | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins) | 16:50 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th August 2025)" | 16:50 | |
| rainemak | I'd say that back to usual biweekly rhythm. This evening time slot works perfectly for me. | 16:51 |
| rainemak | Thus, proposing Thursday 28th August at 04:00 PM UTC | 16:51 |
| direc85[m] | works for me | 16:52 |
| rainemak | August is still a vacation month in central Europe. Those who can join will join. | 16:52 |
| rainemak | I'm not hearing objections | 16:54 |
| rainemak | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th August 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-08-28T1600Z | 16:54 |
| rainemak | thank you everybody! if you happen to be still on vacation, enjoy it | 16:55 |
| rainemak | #endmeeting | 16:56 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Aug 14 16:56:21 2025 UTC. | 16:56 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-08-14-16.00.html | 16:56 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-08-14-16.00.txt | 16:56 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-08-14-16.00.log.html | 16:56 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on August 14th 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-08-14T1600Z" | 16:56 | |
| *** rainemak changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on August 28th 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-08-28T1600Z" | 16:56 | |
| direc85[m] | thank you all! | 16:57 |
| rainemak | thanks | 16:59 |
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