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| brobostigon | is it possible, to lock the screen during a call, so my ear doesnt mess with the screen and the call ui? | 07:20 |
|---|---|---|
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| tbr | there is a proximity sensor that should disable touch automatically | 07:29 |
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| brobostigon | ok, odd, because that doesnt seem to be working. | 07:35 |
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| spiiroin | tbr, brobostigon: actually ps does not disable touch (by default), but during call the whole display should turn off is proximity sensor is covered | 07:40 |
| tbr | oh, wait, you didn't mention your device | 07:40 |
| brobostigon | nexus 4 | 07:41 |
| tbr | spiiroin: well, if the screen is off then touch is off too, isn't it? | 07:42 |
| spiiroin | tbr: yes | 07:42 |
| * tbr shrugs and heads somewhere else | 07:42 | |
| sledges | carepack: ^^ | 07:42 |
| spiiroin | ... and ps can be used to delay enabling after display comes back on | 07:42 |
| brobostigon | ok, i need to test it then, as to why that isnt happening. | 07:43 |
| sledges | iirc only accelerometer works on nexus4 | 07:43 |
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| brobostigon | that explains that then. | 07:44 |
| brobostigon | ty sledges | 07:44 |
| sledges | brobostigon: does light sensor work? | 07:44 |
| brobostigon | sledges: vaguely, because the screen brightness does change, ie automatic screen brightness. | 07:46 |
| sledges | brobostigon: you could try test_sensors if want to dig deeper | 07:49 |
| brobostigon | sledges: ok, thank you. | 07:52 |
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| sledges | yet nexus4 is missing out on many things due to its hybris-10.1 base, though carepack experiences hwcomposer leaking fences on hybris-11.0 -> apps/lipstick crash, any help welcome:) | 07:54 |
| carepack | ahoi | 07:54 |
| brobostigon | i see. | 07:56 |
| sledges | hoy carepack | 07:57 |
| carepack | hi sledges | 07:57 |
| sledges | carepack: have you noticed any more sensors working on 11.0? | 07:58 |
| carepack | orientation with hack is working. light sensor for adjusting the diplaybrightness is not working. | 08:00 |
| sledges | ok so no gan on 11.0 wrt sensors, once fixed on 10.1 should stay on other bases | 08:04 |
| sledges | *gain | 08:04 |
| carepack | ok | 08:05 |
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| alin | sledges: hi | 08:44 |
| sledges | alin: ih | 08:49 |
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| alin | sledges: did you add the gstdroidmedia? | 08:52 |
| alin | sledges: the config to sparse now? | 08:52 |
| sledges | alin: there was a misunderstanding as to who as supposed to add it ;P sorry about that (the link to my github home confused even more) | 08:55 |
| krnlyng | it seems like the chroot is calling gles functions directly from libhybris, which should never happen (i see: "W/Adreno200-ES20(12200): <qgl2DrvAPI_glCopyTexImage2D:240>: GL_INVALID_OPERATION" in the chroots logcat) but it is neither called in the gles1 nor the gles2 decoder | 08:57 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: it seems like the chroot is calling gles functions directly from libhybris, which should never happen (i see: "W/Adreno200-ES20(12200): <qgl2DrvAPI_glCopyTexImage2D:240>: GL_INVALID_OPERATION" in the chroots logcat) but it is neither called in the gles1 nor the gles2 decoder | 08:58 |
| sledges | alin: and it should go into droid-config-hammerhead | 09:00 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: shouldn't it be talking to your renderer rather than directly | 09:01 |
| alin | sledges: yap... total confusion... so do you add it now? | 09:02 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: yes | 09:02 |
| krnlyng | it should | 09:02 |
| sledges | alin: https://github.com/mer-hybris/droid-config-hammerhead/pull/1 | 09:09 |
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| alin | sledges: cool | 09:10 |
| alin | Stskeeps: hi... any progress with respect to the gps glue... soon we will celebrate 1y | 09:11 |
| sledges | alin: tagged, and webhook triggered itself | 09:11 |
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| mal- | alin: he said yesterday that maybe july-august | 09:12 |
| alin | sledges: cool I will do something silly.. delete my by hand fix and zypper up | 09:13 |
| mal- | I did a partially working gps support for my device :) works through dbus | 09:13 |
| alin | to have a final test of the obs magic | 09:13 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: sounds like hardware acceleration is enabled in the emulator | 09:15 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: it should be using the emulation & enc libraries | 09:21 |
| krnlyng | and it does, at least for some commands | 09:22 |
| alin | sledges: done and tested | 09:23 |
| alin | mal-: cool... does it lock fast? | 09:26 |
| alin | mal-: this was one issue I have seen on n5... takes a while to lock | 09:26 |
| mal- | alin: difficult to say, it does take a while, although current there is no agps support | 09:27 |
| mal- | no idea why gps test programs don't get the information, the geoclue provider is detected on startup | 09:29 |
| alin | mal-: cool.. one unrelated question... is your device having a parameter | 09:29 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: strange, do you think surfaceflinger is trying to draw directly? | 09:30 |
| mal- | alin: ? | 09:30 |
| alin | mal-: barometer | 09:30 |
| alin | mal-: sorry I was thinking to something else | 09:30 |
| mal- | can't remember, I'll check | 09:31 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: i am not sure if that call comes from surfaceflinger | 09:38 |
| mal- | alin: no barometer on my device | 09:38 |
| mal- | ah, I think I know why the gps does not reach programs, forgot one line in a file, lets see this evening if it will work | 09:44 |
| sledges | mal-: good RE!:D do you get blinking satellite icon? | 09:44 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: does your renderer handle those calls in question. If it's not accounted for then maybe it try's and calls directly | 09:45 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: the decoder libraries handle them | 09:46 |
| mal- | sledges: I got some satellite icon yesterday if I start the gps by calling GetPosition through dbus | 09:46 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: glCopyTexImage2D -> android libGLESv1_CM.so -> libGLESv1_emulation.so -> libGLESv1_enc.so -> tcp -> libGLESv1_dec.so -> host libGLESv1_CM.so, thats how it should be (i think) | 09:47 |
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| nh1402 | krnlyng: are the decoder libraries called?, maybe the libraries that make it fail are the problem | 09:47 |
| mal- | sledges: the problem is that I think I forgot to define in provider file that the provider gives out updates | 09:48 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: but the application is waaay more responsive since i "fixed" the goldfish ro.hardware property problem | 09:50 |
| krnlyng | now it loads all the goldfish modules, some of them fail though because of qemud missing | 09:58 |
| krnlyng | but for now thats not a problem, i just want to see the bootanimation :P | 09:58 |
| sledges | mal-: ok, the icon blink assures you're on a good path though:) | 09:58 |
| mal- | sledges: the icon is lit up after it get a lock | 09:59 |
| sledges | yes | 09:59 |
| mal- | and blinking when trying to get signal | 09:59 |
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| nh1402 | krnlyng: does it not get to the boot animation during the boot process, or does it just not draw it. | 10:00 |
| nh1402 | sounds like the latter | 10:00 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: it draws garbage (mostly black screen though) | 10:02 |
| krnlyng | i wonder if it tries to load the functions from the tls slot in bionic... | 10:04 |
| krnlyng | https://bpaste.net/show/23c81af3381c | 10:04 |
| nh1402 | Stskeep mentioned yesterday the garbage drawing could be stride issues. | 10:04 |
| mal- | sledges: it works! I manually added the missing line | 10:06 |
| mal- | for some reason the gps won't stop when the program that started it is closed | 10:06 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: that was a different application | 10:10 |
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| sledges | mal-: woo! some refcounter missing? | 10:15 |
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| nh1402 | krnlyng: I know some mips assembly, but not sure what that assembly code is doing | 10:35 |
| mal- | sledges: maybe the stop command is in the wrong place or something | 10:38 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: i haven't fully looked through it, but i think it loads the opengl tls slot from bionic and then calls the function referenced by _api | 10:55 |
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| krnlyng | i disabled the tls stuff but glCopyTexImage2D still doesn't arrive on the host | 11:14 |
| krnlyng | but the error disappeared | 11:14 |
| krnlyng | so something has changed^^ | 11:14 |
| krnlyng | but apparently not enough | 11:14 |
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| nh1402 | not at all related to this but I am currently working on making a website mobile friendly for work via CSS, and I made a change and broke the website entirely, undid all the changes saved it, and it made no difference. I did find the cause of the problem was missing a closed parenthesis but if it worked before I changed anything why did it stop aft | 11:22 |
| nh1402 | er I undid the change effectively making it the same as it was before | 11:22 |
| krnlyng | our friend is still there "W/Adreno200-ES20( 3804): <qgl2DrvAPI_glCopyTexImage2D:240>: GL_INVALID_OPERATION" | 11:56 |
| krnlyng | maybe i missed something? | 11:56 |
| nh1402 | Adreno 200? I thought it was supposed to be Adreno 305 | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | normal | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | it is just a name | 11:59 |
| krnlyng | does the android build system have automatic dependency handling? if i change a header will it rebuild everything that includes this header? | 12:01 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 12:06 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: does that not depend on the programs you use to build it, such as make and lunch? | 12:09 |
| krnlyng | make seems to build everything | 12:12 |
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| krnlyng | btw, is this bad? https://bpaste.net/show/4655fd3efb96 | 12:18 |
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| krnlyng | looks a bit weird to me | 12:19 |
| krnlyng | or is this some sort of pronounciation stuff for some voice application i don't know? | 12:20 |
| nh1402 | where is this from? | 12:21 |
| krnlyng | from the build log | 12:21 |
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| krnlyng | android build log* | 12:22 |
| nh1402 | well a bit of research suggests other people have had that in the log too | 12:23 |
| nh1402 | I wouldn't worry about it. | 12:26 |
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| krnlyng | i wonder if the pthread tls stuff works properly or if we have to think of something for that too | 12:34 |
| krnlyng | because the glCopyTexImage2D still does not get through | 12:35 |
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| nh1402 | seeing as how things are going, we probably have to think of something for that too | 12:39 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: as far as i can tell glCopyTexImage2D does not arrive in the encoder libraries | 13:47 |
| krnlyng | which i didn't expect anyways | 13:48 |
| nh1402 | so it gets stuck in the emulation section somewhere | 13:50 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: adding a dummy glCopyTexImage2D in surfaceflinger gets through though | 14:03 |
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| nh1402 | strange | 14:04 |
| yacuken | hi all | 14:05 |
| sledges | hey yacuken welcome back! | 14:06 |
| yacuken | sledges: thanks)) | 14:06 |
| sledges | people were crying for you;) | 14:06 |
| sledges | how have you been? | 14:06 |
| yacuken | sorry for looong afk | 14:07 |
| yacuken | now my vacation is out=) | 14:07 |
| sledges | good stuff, so one of the bosses didn't fire you by the sound of it;) | 14:08 |
| yacuken | all good on work. i get big money bonus. | 14:09 |
| yacuken | and start to learning for driver license | 14:09 |
| yacuken | it's hard | 14:09 |
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| sledges | practice make perfect in development of a driver:} | 14:10 |
| yacuken | yep) | 14:10 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: well calls from BootAnimation seem to be ok too, so lets get that to work :) | 14:12 |
| yacuken | any news for continue porting? need to go to theoretical lesson. and read after | 14:12 |
| sledges | yacuken: we mentioned your name yesterday | 14:12 |
| sledges | yacuken: would be the best to make a new build with sound working at least | 14:13 |
| sledges | the guy was very keen on the port yesterday (Roukoswarf) | 14:13 |
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| sledges | yacuken: we'll help you upstreaming things to mer-hybris / OBS to ease the job and be able to have more devs hands/eyes on | 14:13 |
| yacuken | sledges: thanks. | 14:14 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: does boot animation get to the host | 14:14 |
| yacuken | need to go | 14:14 |
| yacuken | thanks again | 14:14 |
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| * yacuken_out beep beep | 14:15 | |
| krnlyng | nh1402: yes | 14:15 |
| * sledges honk ong | 14:15 | |
| mal- | yacuken_out: audio should be fixed by building new git version of pulseaudio droid module | 14:15 |
| nh1402 | but it still doesn't draw, unless its the scrambled junk drawn to the screen | 14:15 |
| sledges | skillz_: welcome aboard:) | 14:15 |
| dr_gogeta86 | sledges, nice trip | 14:18 |
| sledges | dr_gogeta86: i think i should keep my sense of humour with me at all times %} | 14:19 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | sledges, anyway i think is a place to visit for gizmo lovers | 14:20 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: ^ | 14:20 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: but for egl/gl i definately need help, i did not study informatics :P | 14:21 |
| krnlyng | nh1402: i'd have expected more people to be interested in this but it doesn't seem like it :( | 14:21 |
| nh1402 | nh1402: I would have thought so too. | 14:22 |
| nh1402 | why the heck did I do right my own nick there krnlyng: ^ | 14:22 |
| nh1402 | I didn't study computer graphics either | 14:23 |
| krnlyng | _D | 14:23 |
| krnlyng | :D | 14:23 |
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| nh1402 | _D? | 14:24 |
| locusf | missed the dot | 14:25 |
| dr_gogeta86 | i'm missing libhybris tar | 14:25 |
| dr_gogeta86 | today is a bad day :-( | 14:26 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | is looking for libhybris-0.0.0.tar.bz2 | 14:27 |
| dr_gogeta86 | rpmbuild I hate you this morning | 14:27 |
| locusf | do you have latest sdk-tools? | 14:28 |
| dr_gogeta86 | i think so | 14:29 |
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| krnlyng | nh1402: wrong button^^ | 14:29 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | locusf, I hate myself and I don't worth it | 14:30 |
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| Lagg | Pasting question on #sailfishos here since I was told this is a more appropriate channel: 09:39 <Lagg> Anyone have any suggestions/recommendations for installing Sailfish on the n1? I've been waiting forever for the ability to but I'm only seeing stuff about the n4 and I'm pretty much sick of android at this point. | 16:54 |
| Lagg | vgrade: Someone also said I should highlight you since this is your thing ^ | 16:56 |
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| nh1402 | the problem with the port for the Nexus One is the lack of ram, sure Sailfish can run on it, but you won't be able to run many apps on it. iirc | 17:03 |
| nh1402 | when I say can, vgrade may have ported it (and has the rom) but he had to disable things to get it some what functional. | 17:04 |
| Lagg | Yeah I was concerned about that but I've noticed that it can't really get any worse | 17:04 |
| Lagg | I'm even running CM stable for passion and still get bugs probably caused by OOMs | 17:05 |
| nh1402 | I'm not sure if Sailfish 2.0 will be any better, we're going to have to wait and see when it comes out. | 17:05 |
| Lagg | Hrm, you think I should try the question again at that point then? | 17:06 |
| Lagg | It's hard for me to judge how production ready sailfish is right now so I have no idea honestly | 17:07 |
| nh1402 | Its probably best to get vgrade's view on it. | 17:08 |
| mal- | nh1402: 512 MB can be enough, I can use my port reasonably well | 17:08 |
| Lagg | Mkay, will wait for him to respond to the highlight then | 17:08 |
| Lagg | It also might be worth noting that android has come close to making my phone functionally useless. At one point I could hear people but they couldn't hear me. | 17:08 |
| Lagg | I know vaguely why this happened codewise, probably something being write blocked or failing mallocs. Due either to a filled SD card or OOMs respectively. My card has a ton of space leftover and configured to explicitly use external storage so it had to have been the latter | 17:10 |
| Lagg | So yeah. It's one of those situations where either sailfish can save the phone or I'll have to do the worst thing anyone with a phone can possibly do: Buy one of the 2 cheap dumb phones until I can afford a new model smart one. | 17:11 |
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| nh1402 | I thought the Nexus one had half that, for once on phone specs I was wrong | 17:11 |
| nh1402 | am* | 17:11 |
| Lagg | Hopefully it doesn't get to that point though because I said the moment that jolla did a public announcement that my next phone would be from them. So I may be waiting a while. | 17:12 |
| Lagg | nh1402: I just find it amusing how jaded we are to specs in general now | 17:12 |
| nh1402 | they do have a phone out at the moment. | 17:13 |
| Lagg | I would have felt so top of the line not too long ago if I had a desktop with 256MB memory | 17:13 |
| nh1402 | Well if the phone is running an unlockable bootloader you can load whatever you want on it. So the only other thing to think about is the phone specs | 17:13 |
| Lagg | Yeah | 17:13 |
| Lagg | Anyway I'm surprised that memory is even a concern for sailfish core | 17:14 |
| Lagg | It even uses wayland so performance is clearly a primary concern | 17:14 |
| nh1402 | well mal- has an Xperia Pro which has the same amount of RAM, and he says it works fine, so it shouldn't be a problem | 17:15 |
| Lagg | He did mention that he had some multitasking issues but like I said in the other channel I have issues with that now already so | 17:15 |
| sledges | Lagg: hi, i presume you saw vgrade's youtube video running sf on n1 yet? | 17:17 |
| sledges | Lagg: vgrade used cm7 from evervolv as base, had to backport sf/hybris on top of that | 17:18 |
| sledges | port was proof-of-concept | 17:18 |
| sledges | and no guide as it's just bunch of hacks, but if you're ambitious enough.. | 17:18 |
| sledges | <vgrade> alin: passion is a little tricky as they was no CM (well there was but it was CM7), then the internal flash is not big enough so had to use sdcard. I used Evervolve android source | 17:18 |
| Lagg | Did he mention if the code he was basing on was the kernel or userspace stuff primarily? | 17:19 |
| Lagg | and no I didn't see it, hard to find much information in general about sailfish and n1 together | 17:19 |
| sledges | both, as per porting guide (you can download it from here https://sailfishos.org/hadk ) | 17:19 |
| nh1402 | out of interest are you just fed up of the OS, or the apps as well? because work is currently being done to get Android apps working on Sailfish. But currently need someone who knows OpenGL | 17:19 |
| sledges | chapter 12 | 17:19 |
| Lagg | Ah okay so it's pretty much moving the sailfish userspace over first. Makes sense | 17:20 |
| sledges | Lagg: try googling "sailfish nexus one" | 17:20 |
| sledges | otherwise it clashes with nokia n1 | 17:20 |
| Lagg | Oooooooohhhhhhh | 17:20 |
| Lagg | nh1402: Honestly? I don't like it anymore from the bottom up | 17:21 |
| Lagg | I'm extremely respectful of google for the patches they sent back into linux but at this point their downstream patching is getting pretty heavy in the same way it did before they forked webkit | 17:21 |
| Lagg | I was okay with dalvik at first but I instinctively try to eat my own legs off when I have to work with mobile java, especially tightly integrated mobile java. I quit a job because I was so sick of BREW. | 17:23 |
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| Lagg | I don't like their install script hackery, I don't like how hard they make it to rehash those script lines. I don't like how they implemented locked in apps (making aforementioned install script hackery necessary in the first place). I also don't like their philosophy. They're trying way too hard to make the GUI look like the rest of the google sites | 17:24 |
| nh1402 | their apps are also proprietary, there dialer app for example. At least the guys at Omnirom made an open source version. | 17:25 |
| nh1402 | their* | 17:26 |
| Lagg | It's also generally inelegant. Google has huge issues with reusing perfectly reusable code unless they have to or it's economically infeasible | 17:26 |
| Lagg | Meanwhile jolla is over here being awesome and letting you use qt and C++ | 17:26 |
| Lagg | and I don't even like C++. But I do like it a whole lot more than java that's for sure. | 17:26 |
| nh1402 | don't forget rpm packages | 17:27 |
| Lagg | Yes, didn't they also have the end goal of using upstream linux? | 17:27 |
| Lagg | That's huge right there. Which is why I've been tracking sailfish so much. It's everything that I was desperately hoping android would be. I just want a phone that I can hack similarly to my desktop. That's all :( | 17:27 |
| nh1402 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkWhfdt_gYQ | 17:29 |
| Lagg | nh1402: Heh. Wow. The UI controls are moving more smoothly there than on my phone in its current state | 17:31 |
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| vgrade | Lagg: \o. as sledges said, nexus 1 was a bit of a hack to use sdcard for stowaway sailfish rootfs. one correction though, it was based on jb version of evervolv | 18:32 |
| Lagg | vgrade: o/ so it was a chainloader type deal? | 18:38 |
| vgrade | Lagg: still the same structure as all HADK ports just rootfs is on sdcard instead of internal flash | 18:43 |
| vgrade | kernel+mer initrd->switches to rootfs-> systemd takes over->starts normal linux userspace+custom android init | 18:44 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | vgrade, is remarkable | 18:45 |
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| sledges | Lagg: vgrade: mal- is also running off of an sd card on xperia pro | 18:48 |
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| mal- | sledges: vgrade even cm12 is using sd card for /data | 18:56 |
| mal- | on xperia pro | 18:56 |
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| sledges | mal-: i'm amazed there -is- cm12 for xperia pro;) | 19:00 |
| mal- | sledges: me too :) | 19:00 |
| mal- | also cm12.1 | 19:00 |
| mal- | sledges: it seems people really like their 2011 sony ericsson devices, cm2 is available for all of those | 19:01 |
| sledges | cool! | 19:02 |
| mal- | those devices are very similar so that's why it for all | 19:02 |
| sledges | so when's sfos release? ;) | 19:02 |
| * sledges runs afk a bit | 19:02 | |
| mal- | sledges: still need to get a properly working image, I had problems with camera with previous build, otherwise it was good | 19:03 |
| mal- | then I got sidetracked and started the cm12 and gps projects etc | 19:05 |
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| mal- | sledges: for those semc 2011 devices the support for cm10-12 is not official but very well maintained anyway | 19:17 |
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| mal- | sledges: now my gps supports also velocity, but still won't stop running, source code of geoclue contain this "Should probably start/stop the actual providers as needed in the future" | 19:30 |
| mal- | so maybe it's not even possible to stop it | 19:30 |
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| mal- | sledges: also it seems the geoclue used for sailfish is very very old | 19:32 |
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| * Nokius w00t the sim is active but I'm tired | 19:38 | |
| mal- | sledges: looks like the nemomobile version is missing some patches (some of it might enable the stopping) | 19:46 |
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| mal- | sledges: I was wrong, it does support stopping gps providers but for some strange reason it fails if gps has lock and is giving data, if I close the program before that then it closes everything like it should | 21:11 |
| sledges | mal-: ok, so that TODO was probably a false negative | 21:12 |
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| mal- | I have no idea what could cause the problem, I have copied the logic from other providers | 21:14 |
| sledges | src link? | 21:14 |
| mal- | sledges: I get this "geoclue-hybris[1828]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Impolite client :1.105 disconnected without unreferencing" and that results in failure to call shutdown | 21:15 |
| sledges | or just behaviourally? | 21:15 |
| sledges | mal-: haha, i did mention reference counter the other day;) | 21:15 |
| mal- | which source do you want? my code? | 21:16 |
| sledges | 00:14 < mal-> I have no idea what could cause the problem, I have copied the logic from other providers | 21:16 |
| sledges | 00:15 < sledges> or just behaviourally? | 21:16 |
| mal- | I used an existing provider as a base and then modified it to fit my needs | 21:16 |
| mal- | https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/geoclue there is the original | 21:17 |
| sledges | i thought geoclue "manages" other providers | 21:17 |
| mal- | sledges: this is where the problems originates https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/geoclue/blob/master/geoclue/geoclue/gc-provider.c#L245 | 21:19 |
| mal- | and the previous line fails because it does not find the connection from hash table https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/geoclue/blob/master/geoclue/geoclue/gc-provider.c#L184 | 21:20 |
| sledges | mal-: have you checked https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/geoclue/blob/master/geoclue/docs/reference/implementing-providers.xml ? | 21:25 |
| mal- | sledges: yes | 21:27 |
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| sledges | mal-: https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/geoclue/blob/master/geoclue/interfaces/gc-iface-geoclue-full.xml#L45 | 21:47 |
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| sledges | mal-: what happens if you call shutdown() at some point/condition yourself and hence provider quitting | 21:53 |
| sledges | ? | 21:53 |
| * sledges calls his own shutdown() | 21:55 | |
| sledges | n!n | 21:55 |
| mal- | sledges: then it should work | 21:57 |
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