Monday, 2013-05-20

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Stskeepsyou mean06:42
edgarsnot jet06:42
edgarsnew phone presentation, whennnnnnn?06:43
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dm8tbr1600 UTC06:44
edgarsthat means 19:00 for me06:52
ljpit's 02:00 for me :)06:54
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* Stskeeps nudges people to check twitter09:05
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stephgwoot, preorder, er, ordered09:29
faenilo/ welcome to the club stephg09:30
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xorrrwhats a "pre-order limited edition Other Half"10:16
ottulothe back piece of the phone10:18
xorrrah nvm, explained here
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sardinihello all, very nice design jolla, I'm waiting this evening to know if I do a t'shirt support or a phone support. tunerFM ?screen resolution?10:40
sardinibut very very nice look10:41
sardinivery excited10:43
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thp_"Countries supported at the moment include Finland, Sweden, Denmark, United Kingdom, Germany, Spain, France, and Italy." - other countries can't preorder at the moment? i can pick other countries from the "Billing address" input, so slightly confused10:47
Stskeepsi presume that this goes for shipping tshirts/paying, but i don't know10:47
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thp_ok so the listed countries are for limited edition + other half orders, limited edition + t-shirt also works for other countries10:59
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stephgwoo :)11:25
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MFaro-TusinoWho's pre-ordered?11:41
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MFaro-TusinoI just need to organise shipment to Australia then I will get the Ltd. Ed. Version11:44
Take^I'll ship it for you, for a modest price of 399EUR ;)11:49
Take^(I want one too, but I'm broke atm :()11:50
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backjlackWill sailfishos be open source?12:19
SummeliTake^: you can also take the 0e pre-order just to get into the line when the device starts shipping :)12:19
Stskeepsbackjlack: sailfishos is built on existing open source projects, mer core and nemo mobile middleware12:20
backjlackOk, but will it be open source or not? I'm looking for an alternative to Android and I was condering getting the 100 euro preorder.12:21
backjlackIf it's not fully open source, then there's no point in getting it. It'd be yet another "Android".12:22
Stskeepsfor good measure: a production OS will never be fully open source; there's closed source bits in any hardware adaptation today, there's bits that can't be changed due to regulation (radio, etc)12:22
backjlackYes, that makes sense. However, I am not talking about baseband or anything like that. I'm talking about the OS itself.12:23
Take^Summeli: Sure, but that doesn't help with empty wallet12:23
Stskeepssure, just saying that it's not easy to say 'fully' :)12:23
MFaro-TusinoHow open will it be Carsten?12:24
MFaro-TusinoOr you can't say yet?12:24
Stskeepsi believe it's already more open than meego or maemo ever was, in source and participation possibilities12:25
backjlackAndroid is a real pain. If the company which built your phone gets bored of providing you with updates so you shell out money, you're stuck.12:25
backjlackEither you install a random ROM built by some dropout or you stick to the original ROM with glitches and bugs.12:25
MFaro-TusinoYeah, I've been thinking the same. Just wanted "official" clarification :)12:26
Take^I suppose we'll get more info today12:26
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backjlackAlso, Android is less and less "open". AOSP is just 70-90% of what Google ships on their phones.12:26
Stskeeps<-- speaking on his own, not company's12:26
backjlackIt'd be nice to find out if sailfishos would be any different or "yet another OS used to force me to buy a new phone every year".12:27
Take^backjlack: Agree12:27
Nicd-considering the number of devices sailfish runs on I doubt it will force you to buy their phone12:28
Yanielbackjlack: take a look at the mer project12:28
Yanielwhich is pretty much where sailfish updates will come from AFAIK12:28
Stskeepsit's never a black or white answer with this, but in practice sailfish = sailfish ui + mer core + nemo middleware12:28
Stskeepssailfish ui is not open source at this point12:29
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backjlacksailfish = sailfish ui + mer core + nemo middleware <- that "sailfish ui" looks like "closed source features" of Nexus * = Android AOSP + Google libs & frameworks + closed source features12:30
Stskeepsbackjlack: the only thing i can really say is that if you're in doubt, choose by feeling and playing with the device when time is12:30
Stskeepsand seeing if it's acceptable to you12:31
backjlackIt already looks like it's gone where others are trying to go.12:31
Stskeepsand if you're interested, you can already now see the ongoing development in mer and nemo - that's live development, not just codedrops12:32
Yanielyou could also take a look at the emulator image12:33
Stskeepsand even people building entire custom UIs on that12:33
Stskeepswith same tools and methods as sailfish UI is built12:33
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backjlackFair enough, I'll get the SDK and play with it.12:34
Yanielbackjlack: since you can ssh into the emulator, you should be able to figure out a thing or two12:35
Nicd-guess I have to start developing some software to run when I get my phone :P12:35
Yanielif you know your stuff12:35
Take^I'd love to see the binaries released today12:36
Take^My N9 could use fresh software12:36
backjlackOne of my main issues has always been the kernel. I can rebuild my kernel quite easily for my Linux box. It'd be nice to be able to do the same for my phone.12:37
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Take^backjlack: AFAIK you can do that with sailfish12:37
backjlackMy last phone with a custom kernel ended up having 10 days of battery life.12:37
Stskeepsheh, kernels on consumer devices are funny.. upgrading them can be hard12:37
Take^Or, mer to be exact12:37
clau2any idea if swype keyboard is (or will be) available for sailfish os ?12:39
stephgjust to drum up more excitement, hadn't seen this yet:
edgarswhere we will see live video?12:41
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edgarsalmost 3 hours :/12:44
backjlackHow can I close an app running in the emulator?12:47
Stskeepspeek back from the edge of the screen, i think12:48
Stskeepshold down mouse button, it's a bit hard on emulator12:48
Stskeepseasier on device12:48
Yanielemulating a touchscreen with a mouse has always worked well :(12:48
Stskeepsand then i think you can close by holding down on screen and (x)'s come up12:49
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lbtedgars: may help too12:50
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backjlackIt looks like it can't load up projects into the emulator if they're not in your user folder.12:52
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Stskeepscorrect, that's in known issues i think12:53
Stskeepsthis is just our 'alpha' or minnow sdk, so12:53
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MFaro-TusinoBe right back, time to boot into ubuntu. I feel wrong doing any Sailfish Related activities on OS  X >.<12:55
backjlackIt's much better than Android's anyway.12:55
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lbtMFaro-Tusino: +1 :)12:58
MFaro-Tusinolbt: Is the OBS build better now? I want to have my app ready to go for the official announcement :D12:59
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MFaro-Tusinoback :)13:05
lbtMFaro-Tusino: it's still a bit manual in the current alpha SDK since that is frozen - latest platform SDK has new mb2 script which makes rpm building far more integrated13:05
MFaro-TusinoAwesome! Looking forward to the new release then13:06
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lbtyou should be able to play with the current SDK too13:09
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gyaresuWell the release information is a bit thin right now. The device specs are completely vague and the website is showing almost no information still in regard to what the hell "the other half" is other than a coloured cover that might change the on-screen theme.13:17
Nicd-the release event is in a few hours13:18
Nicd-I'm sure we'll get more info13:18
gyaresuOk. That seems fair.13:18
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gyaresuIt's really weird to see the 'call to arms' on and yet there be no real info on it. It's like a Kickstarter with no info.13:20
crevetorCongrats sailors !13:20
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FabianSIs it possible to install the Sailfish SDK without GUI and user input for packaging?13:25
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MFaro-TusinoMarc Dillion has actually said a lot. The Other Half will make the device more personalisable, and bring enhancements later on. AKA, this seems like we can get a qwerty, or bigger battery. But thats a bit OT here, use #JollaMobile for device discussion, keep this for OS/Dev13:26
gyaresuMFaro-Tusino, Thanks. #JollaMobile <- Didn't realise. Will go lurk.13:29
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lbtFabianS: what are you after?13:33
FabianSPackaging the SDK for a linux distro.13:34
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FabianSSo that I can install it with the package manager.13:34
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wirew0rmFabianS: cool. which distro? I wanted to do this for arch, but i there isn't a really cool way i think. you can however create a repository on your local disc with the command line option and from this folder reconstruct the urls of the tar.gz files you need.13:46
FabianSArch too.13:46
FabianSBut as it installs to /home that wouldn't work.13:46
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edgarshuh, and thats all? :/13:53
wirew0rmFabianS: for example is just the emulator vm, you can extract it to everywhere you want13:53
FabianSwirew0rm: thx.13:54
FabianSDoes the emulator contain the phone's UI too like the android one?13:54
FabianSOr can you only run single applications?13:54
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MFaro-TusinoDamn, seriously an if else statement in qml is stumping me :/13:56
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MFaro-TusinoI feel like such a n00b13:56
wirew0rmFabianS: there is an IDE, which is basically a fork of qtcreator:, then there is an emulator vm, which contains the software which should be running on the phone in the end, so yes including UI and everithing there is at the moment, and theres the sdk vm, which contains the build toolchain to compile applications13:56
FabianSYeah, I'm running the emulator at the moment.13:57
FabianSBut it seems like there is no app launcher or anything like that. I can minimize the hallo world app but that's it.13:58
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wirew0rmFabianS: the app launcher is there, but its empty, if you flick up from home screen you get an empty screen which is the launcher13:58
edgarslbt: okey, and what now? :)13:59
FabianSAh. Neat.13:59
MFaro-Tusinouse Zypper and install some apps from the repos13:59
FabianSLooks great but End of 2013 makes me sad :/13:59
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FabianSAnd my laptop is clearly too slow for the emulation.13:59
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lbtedgars: sorry?14:01
lbtFabianS: oops - got drawn into something else14:01
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StskeepsFabianS: what specs for your laptop?14:01
FabianSStskeeps: Only 2 GB RAM and an AMD NEO MV-40.14:02
FabianSBasically a fast netbook.14:02
FabianSNot the kind of hardware you want to run virtualisation on.14:02
lbtFabianS: I don't think the sailfish SDK is redistributable in distros14:03
edgarslbt: - i dinished wit this :D14:03
lbtFabianS: due to the brand logos14:03
FabianSlbt: Arch provides build scripts for cases like that.14:03
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FabianSThe makepgk-program downloads resources directly from the source and build a package from that.14:04
FabianSBut as the SDK installs to /home anyway, that does not make sense.14:04
louisdkWhen will an ARM edition of Sailfish OS be released?14:04
lbtFabianS: right - but that source isn't public for the same reasons14:04
FabianSlbt: You don't need sources to build packages.14:04
FabianSMany scripts just run the propietary installer and copy everything to the right directories.14:05
lbtas per flash plugins?14:05
FabianSOr Dropbox, Spotify etc.14:06
wirew0rmFabianS: lbt: there are sources for the qtcreator based SDK ide, and the other components are basically vm images, that you just have to download, as far as i understood it14:06
lbtFabianS: short answer, no, there's no gui-less option14:06
lbtFabianS: longer answer - we use the qt installer which is OSS14:07
lbtso if someone patched that to provide a 'no-gui, use defaults' then we'd be closer14:07
FabianSAs it installs everything into one directory in /home, it isn't really necessary to use the package manager anyway.14:07
lbteventually the plugin will be upstream and in std qtc anyhow14:08
lbtso you install normal distro QtCreator and get the plugin14:08
FabianSIt's nice to see systemd output when the vm boots up.14:08
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Stskeepsyeah, no sysvinit for us14:09
lbtwirew0rm: I'd like to get the VM images as discrete downloads14:09
lbtwe have similar issues to do with click-through14:09
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FabianSI really like systemd and journald.14:09
wirew0rmlbt: doesn't the download link above work for you?14:10
wirew0rmdon't know if its the most recent version of the vm tough, as the online repository is non browsable :(14:10
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lbtyeah - tbh that should not be a discrete download14:11
louisdkWhen will an ARM port be publicly released?14:11
lbtwirew0rm: I'm aiming to get that done legitimately14:12
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wirew0rmlbt: yes it would be nicer if jolla just provided an official download link.14:17
wirew0rmbut I don't have issues with downloading and extracting it myself, as that is exactly what the installer does14:19
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FabianSDoes sailfish use some X-based WIndowmanager or a Wayland compositor?14:30
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lbtFabianS: the emulator is X-based although Mer can run Qt on both X/Wayland14:40
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MFaro-TusinoWhats the best way to do a multi-line Label?15:07
MFaro-TusinoI was using a disabled TextField, but unsure of how to get the text to wrap15:07
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* stephg patiently sat in a bar with a beer now15:15
* Stskeeps could use a beer..15:15
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dm8tbrmmmm, beeeer15:16
stephgStskeeps, if I could get you a beer I would, but it'll be flowing tonight anyway right? :)15:20
Stskeepssadly not at launch event, stayed home of own choice15:20
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MFaro-TusinoStskeeps: :(15:25
MFaro-TusinoHmmm, wonder why this code isn't working. It works for one page, but not the next15:25
stephgeep well I hope you can get something to drink today, first steps I know but lots to celebrate and you should be proud :)15:26
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MFaro-Tusinolbt: Any useful links for the OBS for sailfish? I remember you linked one, but i don't remember the link >.<16:00
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MFaro-Tusinolbt: I am stuck here16:06
MFaro-TusinoLogin to the mersdk using ssh and then set PKG to the name of your application and run the following commands:16:06
MFaro-Tusinoexport PKG=untitled116:06
MFaro-Tusinocd <appdir>16:06
MFaro-Tusinocd rpm16:06
MFaro-TusinoNot sure where the appdir is16:06
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lbtMFaro-Tusino: hmm16:08
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lbtso appdir is in your home - the name of the application16:09
MFaro-TusinoAnd you meant Sailfish SDK right? I used the "ssh -p 2222 -i ~/.ssh/mer-qt-creator-rsa root@localhost16:09
MFaro-Tusino" command16:09
lbteg /home/lbt/src/untitled116:09
MFaro-TusinoHmm, now I get an issue with16:12
MFaro-Tusino(cd ..; make distclean 2>/dev/null; tar cf - --exclude /rpm --exclude .git/ --transform "s_./_${PKG}-0.1/_" ./)  | bzip2 > ${PKG}-0.1.tar.bz216:12
MFaro-TusinoI am sure it is just because i am making a n00b error16:12
stephgwhat's the error16:12
MFaro-Tusinotar: Unknown flag in transform expression16:14
stephgI'm unfamiliar with the build process specifics, but are you sure ${PKG} is being set correctly?16:15
lbtMFaro-Tusino: echo pkg is $PKG16:18
lbt10m to go so not paying much attention here .... sorry :D16:18
MFaro-Tusinosays pkg is ChequeMate_Sailfish which is my project name16:19
MFaro-TusinoThats okay16:19
MFaro-TusinoI can finish the buil process another time16:19
edgarsi'mt tired of waiting16:19
stephgbeer is the solution! ;)16:20
lbtedgars: good things come to those who wait16:20
edgarsstephg: 4 beers already in me16:21
stephgmore beers! :)16:21
edgarslbt: will see will see16:21
sardinirefresh page refresh refresh refresh arghhh16:21
* dhbiker patiently waits16:21
edgarsif phone will be like in video i'm a bit dissapointed :/16:22
sardini10 minutes  to go16:22
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* crevetor is ready 16:25
* stephg was born ready16:25
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wmaroneedgars: what disappoints you about it?16:25
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edgarswmarone: pure touchscreen16:25
edgarsi'm dreaming about hw keyboard16:26
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FabianShw keyboard is dead.16:26
jotikme too. I wonder whether the "other half" can be a hardware keyboard.16:26
wmaroneedgars: ah yes, I do want a slider16:26
wmaronejotik: that's what I'm hoping.16:27
wmaroneit'd be infinitely clever16:27
ottuloMarc hinted at that, saying the other half can expand the hw16:27
stephgoooh music16:29
edgarsslider with hw keyboard kicks ass16:29
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edgarsnothing yet16:30
edgars"Hey dudes! Come later... after month or so :)"16:33
edgars-4 minutes16:34
stephgrefresh, the video is running16:35
edgarsfscking browser :)16:36
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stephgsomebody kick the AV techs the video is on loop16:41
stephg(meaning we on the stream get the background music every 30 seconds)16:41
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dhbikerhmmm indeed16:45
* edgars scratchs head16:45
crevetorWell that wasn't much16:45
edgarshell yeah16:46
dhbikerexpected more16:46
edgarsmaybe some specs16:46
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dhbikerthere are specs16:46
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crevetorI'd like to know how the cover connects to the device16:46
edgarsand damn, it's not a slider :/16:47
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edgarsdhbiker: didnt see cpu/ram16:47
wmaronecrevetor: ditto, though someone else suggested NFC.16:47
edgarscrevetor: with plastic clips :)16:47
dhbikerlol edgars16:47
ottulocrevetor: didn't notice any connectors, maybe bluetooth or smt?16:47
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crevetorWell I'm guessing if it's nfc you couldn't get a big flash to work16:48
shmerlDid anyone pay attention to the device itself?16:48
crevetoror maybe with its own battery16:48
edgarsback cover is "active" part of phone?16:48
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shmerlAny other ports?16:48
ottulo3.5mm audio and I think usb on top16:49
ottulonothing on sides nor bottom, it seems16:49
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edgarswhat functionality that does it have?16:51
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shmerlSo far the info on networks is very vague.16:52
shmerlNo frequencies details.16:52
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JvD_i want to know what's bus/busses are accessible in back cover16:52
edgarsshmerl: no frequencies no cores no ram16:52
shmerl2 cores CPU16:52
dhbikerdual core16:52
shmerlBut no details about the SoC.16:52
edgars2 core... :/16:53
shmerlbetter than 1 core N916:53
edgarsthen it must have 2.5ghz16:53
edgarsor at the end of the year it will be outdated16:53
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shmerlSo is there pull down to close or not?17:00
gyaresuThey did their teaser marketing to get people excited. Now show us somethin to be excited about. NOT "it's a phone with covers" that may or may not have an NFC chip in them.17:01
* gyaresu is sorry. Wrong channel.17:02
dhbikeri wonder if it has the new Intel Atom in it17:02
FabianSMost likely arm.17:03
dhbikerbecause atom launches just before jolla "releases" it17:03
shmerlProbably ARM. Intel still kind of not ready, which is weird.17:04
shmerlThey had tons of time to prepare.17:04
dhbikeryou never know...17:04
dhbikerwe will see17:04
dhbikerit's something fishy17:04
shmerlWell, yeah.17:04
dhbikerbecause they didn't say the specs17:04
dhbikerwhat CPU17:04
edgarstwo intel pentum 417:05
dhbikerOCed to 3.4 huh ? :D17:05
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edgarsfor sure17:05
edgarsand active fan17:05
edgars120mm radius17:05
FabianSwater cooled.17:05
dhbikersite has changed17:06
edgarsdhbiker: someone hacked it17:06
dhbikerworks for me17:06
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edgarshacked and put phones profile photo on the index page17:08
FabianSDidn't change for me.17:08
dhbikerdown ofc17:08
straceno no, scroll up17:09
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edgarsanyone placed preorder?17:12
aard_edgars: we can,t do a phone with a  cpu fan, someone else patented that last year17:12
FabianSWon't buy a product without specs and withoug release date.17:12
aard_FabianS: you could still register your interest with the 0-eur-option17:13
stracewhat FabianS said and I dn't like the style... I am currently in love with uni-bodies17:13
FabianSI like the Lumia or N9 cases but Jolla looks fine too.17:14
edgarsaard_: when we will see cpu specs?17:14
lbtbtw - #jollamobile for the device chat17:14
lbtsw in here :)17:14
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FabianSHow do notifications in Sailfish look like?17:24
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shmerllbt: I guess there will be no detailed info on Sailfish itself before the actual device launch?17:28
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lbtshmerl: there will be another SDK release "soon"17:30
lbtand that will update the emulator and SDK17:30
shmerlI mean more like the plans on open sourcing stuff and actual applications.17:30
lbtyeah - that kind of detail will happen at release time17:31
shmerlMakes sense.17:31
lbtbut we're doing IDE development in the open17:31
shmerlYep, that's good of course.17:31
lbtmainly me banging away on Mer platform SDK17:31
shmerlIs it now flexibly installable without a VM?17:32
shmerlI.e. a pure chroot for the Sailfish image.17:32
lbtthat won't happen17:32
lbtit needs a VM with display17:33
lbtI mean we *could* hack it to use RDP or something but why?17:33
shmerlI mean Harmattan used some stuff like extra X with Xephyr17:33
Stskeepsui is too complex for that17:34
shmerlI see.17:34
shmerlSo it would be too slow to use17:34
Stskeepsor not working properly17:34
Stskeepsyou really need to be close enough to device to be a good emulator17:34
shmerlWell, if you run in chroot with some Wayland compositor - it can work17:35
shmerlI mean work better. But that's the future probably17:35
shmerlStskeeps: Does Jolla actually have any concrete plans for Wayland in the future? Or nothing particular?17:37
lbtshmerl: also our goal is to allow emulation of device17:38
lbtnot to run in chroot17:39
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shmerlWell, that's anyway falls on Qemu.17:39
lbtwe need to maximise deployment coverage with low-cost support17:39
shmerlSince you need to emulate the CPU17:39
lbtso vbox does that very well17:39
shmerlVbox doesn't really emulate the device alone.17:39
lbtno, it's an x86 build of sailfish17:39
shmerlAh, so it's not emulating ARM17:40
lbtand yes there are simulation challenges17:40
shmerlIn practice though users should be encouraged to test all archs.17:41
shmerlI already saw a weird bug with Plasma Active which surfaces on ARM only17:41
shmerlAnd it works just fine on x8617:41
lbtyes, and that's where developer devices come in too17:42
shmerlInteresting. It's hardware accelerated?17:43
shmerlIt's using Gallium?17:44
shmerlDid anyone build PA images for it with this Mer adaptation?17:46
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wmaronewhich mer adaptation?17:50
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o3onenoone alive?17:51
o3oneohh pardon17:51
lbto3one: oh yes17:51
shmerlwmarone: One for Acer iconia.17:51
lbtbut mainly chatting in #jollamobile17:51
o3oneguys don't you mind ovi developers who want to start with a sailfish os?17:51
lbto3one: you are very welcome17:51
wmaronesfiet_konstantin did an adaptation parallel to me, but I stopped looking at it a while ago17:52
shmerlI mean acer iconia w50017:52
wmaroneI'm trying to reproduce what he did17:52
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o3oneso please lbt - point me to a starting point17:52
shmerlI see. I'm not really planning to get one, but just interesting what's going on in the tablet world.17:52
lbto3one: do you have the SDK ?17:53
o3onelbt not yet but already downloading17:53
wmaroneshmerl: sadly it's probably the only x86 tablet out there that will work, all the rest use Atom chips with PowerVR graphics17:53
lbtOK - then follow along on the sailfish site to get going17:53
lbtthere's a tutorial17:53
lbtright now I'm working on the next release of the SDK too17:53
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o3onewhat about more deeper literature?17:53
lbtwhat area?17:54
o3onelbt - ohh! Great to hear it abt sdk17:54
lbtthe Qt libs have some api docs on the site17:54
o3onelbt - entertainment mobile products - gaming and native app development17:54
Yanielpretty much anything Qt or QML should do17:54
shmerlwmarone: I see. Didn't Intel plan to push their own GPUs? They even supposed to have open source drivers.17:54
lbto3one: ok - so mainly driven via Qt apis17:54
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wmaronethey do, but it will probably be another generation17:55
wmaroneI eagerly await that transition17:55
lbtbut access to lower level stuff from Mer is doable17:55
Stskeepsqt apis, opengl es217:55
lbtnb there are caveats there about API support17:55
o3onewhat abt java and air? - integration possible?17:55
lbtnot really17:55
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shmerlo3one: For gaming you better stick with the classic SDL17:56
Yanielqt works too17:56
o3oneshmerl - ahh i c ic17:56
Yanieloh and someone was working on a port of the ogre engine17:56
o3onelbt - is there any requirements for app's developers?17:56
o3oneYaniel - i c nice :)17:56
lbto3one: we don't have java in sailfish - though there is android app support it's not really part of SDK target17:57
lbto3one: only basic pre-reqs of RAM/cpu17:57
lbtruns on the 3 modern platform flavours17:57
shmerllbt: I remember some went through a pain of cross compiling OpenJDK for Harmattan a while ago.17:57
shmerlBut they never normally published it.17:57
shmerlSomething like that can happen for Mer.17:58
lbtshmerl: yeah - it's more for fun though, not a serious target17:58
o3onelbt - so started downloadin 600 mb or smth17:58
lbtyup - you get Qt Creator and 2 virtual machines17:58
o3onelbt ahha got it17:58
lbtalso, that is the alpha SDK, there's an update 'soon'17:58
o3onelbt - critical core updates?17:59
o3onelbt - or just some addings?17:59
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lbtshould be mainly back compatible but we've not announced anything significant yet18:00
Yanielpretty bit update I guess18:00
o3onegot it18:00
o3oneGuys you know I'm happy to enter here18:00
lbtgood to have you18:00
lbthave fun18:00
o3oneahh thnx18:01
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lbtcheck topic for known issues too18:01
o3onealready in18:01
shmerllbt: What about shared community repo for stuff like SDL and the like. Is it going to be planned closer to the release?18:02
lbthmm - yeah - community driven18:02
lbtneed to push that some more18:02
lbtbut food now18:02
* lbt afk for a bit .... o/ l8r18:02
shmerlo3one: I think using Air in general is a bad idea. Adobe kind of kills its own projects anyway. So it's a bad bet to rely on such stuff.18:04
o3oneshmerl - i understood18:05
KylixIs there any developer forums?18:05
shmerlKylix: So far only TMO18:05
shmerlMay be there will be some sailfish dedicated forum - no idea.18:06
KylixSomeone make dev forums ;)18:06
shmerlI propose that a while ago.18:06
shmerlJolla said - let community do it ;)18:06
o3oneshmerl: so sailfish = maemo =>18:07
Stskeepswe have mailing list, too18:07
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shmerlo3one: I wrote a short historic review here:
o3oneshmerl: ohh thank you will read now18:07
shmerlPlease let me know if there are inaccuracies there - I'll update it.18:07
o3onefor sure18:08
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shmerlKylix: I think having forums in addition to the mailing list is useful, but if it's not an offical sailfish sanctioned forum it will face the problem of attracting people. There was - it failed.18:23
shmerlSo TMO at least has a significant audience already.18:23
shmerlWhich on the other hand can be a problem (trolling and etc.)18:23
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nenn3Can i reach an applist in the sailfish emulator?18:27
Yanieldrag up on the home screen?18:28
Yanielif that is the one you mean18:28
Morpog_PCI preordered the 100€ option just after scrolling all the way down on this noon18:29
Morpog_PCoops, didn't see I wasn't at end of backlog, lol18:29
GeneralAntillesshmerl, ITT was huge well before it became official.18:29
nenn3I can see running applications(covers) but that seems to be all18:30
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shmerlGeneralAntilles: ITT?18:32
GeneralAntillesInternet Tablet Talk18:33
shmerlIt became TMO later?18:33
shmerlI didn't see the ITT times of it.18:33
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o3oneAs i understoood there will be appstore for sailfish os?18:37
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shmerlo3one: Most probably. As well as I expect community repository for open source applications.18:39
o3oneshmerl: this is good18:40
shmerlBut nothing is concrete yet. Jolla needs to address either dependencies resolution, or proper bundling guidelines.18:40
Morpog_PCyou can see the store in the martin schuele video18:40
Yanielwhat time?18:41
shmerlFor example, if you applications depends on SDL, do you want to bundle it, or to rely on community repo? Kind of the same problem that can arise on the desktop.18:41
shmerlMost games bundle it to avoid the version confilcts.18:41
o3onei c18:42
GeneralAntillesshmerl, yeah, it became in 2009, iirc.18:42
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shmerlGeneralAntilles: I see. I joined it already in Meego times :)18:43
Morpog_PCyaniel from !.08 on18:43
shmerlAt the same time Meego forum was active. Then Meego was killed and everything moved to TMO18:43
Morpog_PCyaniel from 1.08 on18:43
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o3onedeep into QT19:22
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shmerlDoes Sailfish use Network Manager or connman?19:51
Stskeepsgo look at emulator :)19:53
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attahI feel quite stupid having to ask this... but i'm trying to call a c++ function in qml.. I think i managed to register it ok, but when i call it i keep getting "TypeError: Result of expression 'MyProxy.testFun' [undefined] is not a function." what did i miss?19:56
aknightattah: MyProxy seems to be a valid object, but testFun is not a member. is testFun marked as a slot or decorated with Q_INVOKABLE?19:58
attahthe latter; "Q_INVOKABLE int testFun()"19:59
shmerlIt's just historic, or there is any benefit over the network manager?19:59
aknightattah: hmm. you might want to re-run qmake to make sure it's getting moc'd. and you might try #qt-qml for more advice :)20:01
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attahaknight: okay.. I'm pretty new to this.. moc? Thanks20:02
aknightattah: moc is the meta-object compiler. one of the things it does is generates C++ code for that Q_INVOKABLE method so that it can be called dynamically (e.g. from QML)20:03
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attahaknight: then i know what too look for, seems i have some reading to do.. and here i was thinking that this gui click-to-build stuff wasn't all that bad :P again, thanks20:06
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lbto/ iekku20:32
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FabianSIs it possible to install apps on the emulator?20:56
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lbtFabianS: yes21:13
FabianSHow is it done? Can I ssh to the device and use RPM?21:13
lbtI was discussing OBS before21:15
FabianSIs there a wiki for stuff like that?21:15
lbtyes but we don't have account setup yet21:15
lbtnow that mb build command makes an rpm21:16
lbtthere are several issues with the spec file template and it needs modifying21:18
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