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| Take^ | I suppose that there isn't any news about releasing sailfish binaries for arm? | 08:08 |
| Take^ | My N9 could use fresh software but nemo isn't ready for daily usage, atleast based on their status matrix | 08:09 |
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| Taure | Hi, I have question. Is it possible to run sailfish os on lumia 920? | 09:10 |
| Nicd- | I don't think it's yet possible to run anything on a lumia except the stock WP | 09:11 |
| Taure | I see. Sad. Sailfish looked nice. | 09:12 |
| Nicd- | well, apparently there are ways to unlock a lumia 900 at least, but it may involve soldering | 09:16 |
| FabianS | And you would still need drivers. | 09:16 |
| FabianS | Which are most likely not available. | 09:16 |
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| Taure | Then I will wait and see how sailfish evolve. :) | 09:18 |
| Taure | thank you for the help | 09:18 |
| Take^ | I'm pretty sure that eventually you can run atleast some flavour of mer/some other linux-based mobile os on pretty much any modern smartphone | 09:22 |
| Take^ | But Jolla, Ubuntu, Firefox or any other "distribution" on the market isn't there just yet | 09:23 |
| FabianS | I don't think so. | 09:23 |
| FabianS | Phones are extremely closed platforms. | 09:23 |
| Summeli | most platforms have locked bootloaders, which will make it hard to get Linux-based system into the phone | 09:23 |
| Take^ | hard != impossible | 09:24 |
| FabianS | The bootloader is not the main issue. | 09:24 |
| FabianS | The problem is that you need drivers for all hardware. | 09:24 |
| FabianS | And most phones have highly integrated and customized SoCs. | 09:24 |
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| Summeli | FabianS: I'm pretty sure that there's androdi drivers for those qualcom chips that Nokia is using | 09:25 |
| FabianS | And vendors ship one driver for one module. | 09:25 |
| FabianS | And that's it. | 09:25 |
| FabianS | *one driver for one kernel. | 09:25 |
| Summeli | but of course you wouldn't get all of it working | 09:25 |
| FabianS | You have problems running only a newer kernel on Android phones. | 09:25 |
| aard_ | Summeli: hardware adaptation is a bit more than just kernel | 09:25 |
| Summeli | aard_: yeah, I know | 09:26 |
| Take^ | However trend seems to be turning and I'm hoping that Jolla and Ubuntu play a big part at opening the hardware as well | 09:26 |
| FabianS | I think the opposite. | 09:26 |
| Summeli | aard_: but if the goal was just to get something "working" | 09:26 |
| FabianS | The trend goes to even more custom and integrated SoCs. | 09:26 |
| FabianS | It will get harder and harder to run anything custom on them. | 09:26 |
| Summeli | I don't see any reason wasting time hacking closed systems, while there's already much more open systems on the markets | 09:26 |
| FabianS | What open systems? | 09:27 |
| FabianS | I don't know any. | 09:27 |
| Summeli | "open" as having unlocked bootloader & drivers available | 09:27 |
| FabianS | Yeah, I don't know any of those. | 09:27 |
| aard_ | my personal opinion, and one of the reasons why I'm working for jolla: if we don't manage to make that work now my best option will be to go back to an ordinary feature phone, and forget about the whole pocket computer thing | 09:28 |
| Take^ | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices | 09:29 |
| chriadam | FabianS: FIC Neo | 09:29 |
| chriadam | :-P | 09:29 |
| FabianS | chriadam: :p | 09:29 |
| Take^ | There's some hardware which should be capable of running sailfish as well | 09:29 |
| Summeli | and checkout all of those phone supported by cyanogenmod | 09:29 |
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| FabianS | Take^: Those run android kernels with a funny skin. | 09:29 |
| Take^ | And that list is expanding quite fast | 09:29 |
| FabianS | Take^: With stock android kernel and android drivers. | 09:30 |
| FabianS | Same goes for Cyanogen. | 09:30 |
| Take^ | FabianS: Ubuntu Touch != Ubuntu for Android | 09:30 |
| FabianS | Nontheless Ubuntu Touch currently uses android kernels. | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | and libhybris, pioneered technology by jolla | 09:31 |
| FabianS | "For quick reference, these are the current components used from Android: | 09:31 |
| FabianS | Linux Kernel (stock Android kernel provided by the vendor, with a few changes to support some extra features needed by Ubuntu)" | 09:31 |
| FabianS | Running a stock Linux kernel is a whole different story. | 09:32 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's fair to say that if you want a product out by this side of the apocalypse, you need to use what your ODM provided you, which means a heavily patched android kernel | 09:34 |
| FabianS | Exactly. | 09:35 |
| FabianS | But that makes things an awful lot harder. | 09:36 |
| FabianS | You can't just compile your OS from sources like you can on a PC. | 09:37 |
| Take^ | Yet | 09:37 |
| FabianS | Which means that you also have to customize the ROM for every single device. | 09:37 |
| Take^ | What I'm expecting is that when Jolla, Ubuntu, Firefox, Nemo and others get their s*t together there will be loads of Chinese manufacturers who adapt to that | 09:38 |
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| Take^ | The same ones who currently make sub-$100 "smartphones" | 09:38 |
| FabianS | It looks like FF OS will only ship on cheap 100€ devices. | 09:38 |
| FabianS | Which I couldn't care less about. | 09:39 |
| Take^ | You might not, but there's huge market for cheap smartphones | 09:40 |
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| FabianS | But I don't care. | 09:40 |
| Take^ | They're currently filled with either S40 nokias, some propietary-chinese-thingy or android | 09:40 |
| FabianS | I won't buy a smartphone that is worse than my 3 year old android for sure. | 09:40 |
| Take^ | If even a fraction of those phones on the future are linux-based (other than android) it'll draw attention from hw manufacturers and they'll open their hardware on the process | 09:41 |
| Take^ | Since if you're planning to build $20 'smart'phone I'd assume that it's easier to open the hardware than keep your own branch of kernel | 09:42 |
| Take^ | Well, s/easier/cheaper | 09:43 |
| Yaniel | most likely | 09:43 |
| Yaniel | and the hw is probably not that fancy either so no worries about having the specs publicly available | 09:44 |
| Take^ | Ack | 09:44 |
| Take^ | And since there isn't really that many chip manufacturers that should open doors to run vanilla linux on higher end hardware as well | 09:44 |
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| pavelm | Hello, everyone. | 09:50 |
| Yaniel | hello | 09:52 |
| pavelm | AFAICT sailfish is expected to contain android emulator/runtime | 09:55 |
| pavelm | I'd like to play with that, are sources available somewhere? | 09:55 |
| aard_ | pavelm: no | 09:55 |
| pavelm | aard: Too bad :-(. Thanks for the info. (Will the sources be released with the first hardware?) | 10:08 |
| Take^ | No one knows by now | 10:08 |
| Take^ | Or atleast those who know won't tell | 10:08 |
| Take^ | I tried to ask that from jolla via twitter but they haven't replied yet | 10:08 |
| pavelm | take: :-) | 10:08 |
| aard_ | for android runtime, unlikely. | 10:09 |
| pavelm | aard: Too bad. I'd like to run android apps on the desktop, eventually, without overhead of whole-system emulator. | 10:10 |
| pavelm | (of course, it should be google providing android runtime, but...) | 10:13 |
| aard_ | our runtime would not be very useful on your desktop | 10:14 |
| pavelm | Hmm, why not? (Make it my desktop and n900). X is used on sailfish, so it should run, no? I guess it would be no GPS etc, but... | 10:16 |
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| Take^ | Hmh.. | 10:17 |
| Take^ | http://jollatides.com/2013/05/20/jollaloveday-qa/ "From what I could gather, the plan therefore is to wait until the device has been released and then open up the code once the hard work has been done which makes sense." | 10:17 |
| Take^ | So, it'll take another while until we'll get to play with sailfish on actual hardware | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | well, people already took x86 emulator and put it different places | 10:18 |
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| locusf | how can I configure the debugger for Windows SDK? | 12:53 |
| Yaniel | does it not work out of the box? | 12:53 |
| locusf | nope | 12:54 |
| locusf | it says "No debugger set up" | 12:54 |
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| locusf | yep, Debugger in "Build & Run" -> Kits says "GDB Engine <None>" | 12:56 |
| Yaniel | hmm | 12:58 |
| lbt | locusf: o/ | 13:00 |
| locusf | lbt: \o | 13:00 |
| lbt | tbh I'm not sure about debugger - I thought it just worked | 13:01 |
| * lbt adds gdb tests to QA | 13:01 | |
| lbt | r3d: ^^ please add debug tests to QA :) | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | cross-gdb should be available | 13:02 |
| r3d | ok | 13:02 |
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| lbt | locusf: gdb to emulator I assume? | 13:08 |
| locusf | yes I guess | 13:10 |
| locusf | never used debugger on qt creator thus far | 13:10 |
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| trial | From Twitter Just recently :Béranger @beranger_v4 49 perc @JollaHQ It's impossible. Take a clean Win7-32bit laptop, install VirtualBox then your SDK, and the keys will be rejected for the device. | 13:18 |
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| raniere | hi, the sailfish os will have blobs in it source? | 14:38 |
| raniere | if yes, any plan for a version similar to replicant? | 14:38 |
| lbt | raniere: we take a different approach | 14:39 |
| lbt | we build mainly in the open using mer/nemo projects and then layer on them to make sailfish | 14:40 |
| lbt | so mer/nemo are the fully open baselines | 14:40 |
| raniere | thanks. | 14:41 |
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| locusf | btw the reason I'd need the debugger is to figure out a C++ method call which results in segfault | 14:48 |
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| sardini | hi, | 14:56 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | locusf: linux ? | 15:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | the dbg _should_ work under windows | 15:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but it seems no then | 15:07 |
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| locusf | Sfiet_Konstantin: windows unfortunately | 15:12 |
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| lbt | locusf: can you give me a nice reproduceable test please | 15:22 |
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| locusf | lbt: on my bug or on debugger not working? | 15:25 |
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| lbt | mainly debugger | 15:26 |
| locusf | ok, click "Debug" icon on bottom right corner of Qt Creator, running on Windows 8 | 15:27 |
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| locusf | bottom left to be exact | 15:30 |
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| locusf | lbt: red herring :) ? | 15:33 |
| * lbt doesn't have a windows box | 15:33 | |
| lbt | so I need a reliable set of steps to verify it :) | 15:33 |
| lbt | I have a test box but it's not in win atm | 15:34 |
| locusf | ok | 15:34 |
| lbt | and it's win7 | 15:34 |
| locusf | I should reboot to linux just to debug | 15:34 |
| locusf | not a biggie but I need autologin etc for my mum | 15:34 |
| lbt | you should reboot to linux to feel clean | 15:35 |
| locusf | yup | 15:35 |
| locusf | I miss my ZFS pool | 15:35 |
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| locusf | argh | 15:39 |
| locusf | I can't run my X for long time in Ubuntu | 15:39 |
| locusf | nvidia :/ | 15:40 |
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| sardini | hello, I don't know if i must ask here or on #mer, you know if espeak or something like will be on jolla? | 18:18 |
| wmarone | you'd have to ask in #jollamobile and, even there, I don't think you'd get an answer | 18:24 |
| wmarone | not yet at least | 18:24 |
| sardini | wmarone, yes I suppose the answer is "why not" | 18:25 |
| sardini | ^^ | 18:25 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | sardini: not sure that espeak is shipped with Mer / Nemo | 18:38 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | you will have to package it | 18:38 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | using Mer OBS it shoiuldn't be hard | 18:38 |
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| skjdjk | hello everyone | 20:22 |
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| zepard | hey | 21:11 |
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| frecel | is there an x86 build of sailfish | 23:38 |
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| lbt | frecel: yes - that's what's on the emulator in the SDK | 23:57 |
| frecel | Is there an image that w | 23:57 |
| frecel | ... i could put on an x86 device? | 23:58 |
| frecel | as a primary OS | 23:58 |
| lbt | it's been done - google for tablet/sailfish | 23:58 |
| lbt | it's a hacker experiment though | 23:58 |
| lbt | the emulator isn't useable as a daily OS though | 23:59 |
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