Tuesday, 2013-05-21

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Take^I suppose that there isn't any news about releasing sailfish binaries for arm?08:08
Take^My N9 could use fresh software but nemo isn't ready for daily usage, atleast based on their status matrix08:09
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TaureHi, I have question. Is it possible to run sailfish os on lumia 920?09:10
Nicd-I don't think it's yet possible to run anything on a lumia except the stock WP09:11
TaureI see. Sad. Sailfish looked nice.09:12
Nicd-well, apparently there are ways to unlock a lumia 900 at least, but it may involve soldering09:16
FabianSAnd you would still need drivers.09:16
FabianSWhich are most likely not available.09:16
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TaureThen I will wait and see how sailfish evolve. :)09:18
Taurethank you for the help09:18
Take^I'm pretty sure that eventually you can run atleast some flavour of mer/some other linux-based mobile os on pretty much any modern smartphone09:22
Take^But Jolla, Ubuntu, Firefox or any other "distribution" on the market isn't there just yet09:23
FabianSI don't think so.09:23
FabianSPhones are extremely closed platforms.09:23
Summelimost platforms have locked bootloaders, which will make it hard to get Linux-based system into the phone09:23
Take^hard != impossible09:24
FabianSThe bootloader is not the main issue.09:24
FabianSThe problem is that you need drivers for all hardware.09:24
FabianSAnd most phones have highly integrated and customized SoCs.09:24
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SummeliFabianS: I'm pretty sure that there's androdi drivers for those qualcom chips that Nokia is using09:25
FabianSAnd vendors ship one driver for one module.09:25
FabianSAnd that's it.09:25
FabianS*one driver for one kernel.09:25
Summelibut of course you wouldn't get all of it working09:25
FabianSYou have problems running only a newer kernel on Android phones.09:25
aard_Summeli: hardware adaptation is a bit more than just kernel09:25
Summeliaard_: yeah, I know09:26
Take^However trend seems to be turning and I'm hoping that Jolla and Ubuntu play a big part at opening the hardware as well09:26
FabianSI think the opposite.09:26
Summeliaard_: but if the goal was just to get something "working"09:26
FabianSThe trend goes to even more custom and integrated SoCs.09:26
FabianSIt will get harder and harder to run anything custom on them.09:26
SummeliI don't see any reason wasting time hacking closed systems, while there's already much more open systems on the markets09:26
FabianSWhat open systems?09:27
FabianSI don't know any.09:27
Summeli"open" as having unlocked bootloader & drivers available09:27
FabianSYeah, I don't know any of those.09:27
aard_my personal opinion, and one of the reasons why I'm working for jolla: if we don't manage to make that work now my best option will be to go back to an ordinary feature phone, and forget about the whole pocket computer thing09:28
chriadamFabianS: FIC Neo09:29
FabianSchriadam: :p09:29
Take^There's some hardware which should be capable of running sailfish as well09:29
Summeliand checkout all of those phone supported by cyanogenmod09:29
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FabianSTake^: Those run android kernels with a funny skin.09:29
Take^And that list is expanding quite fast09:29
FabianSTake^: With stock android kernel and android drivers.09:30
FabianSSame goes for Cyanogen.09:30
Take^FabianS: Ubuntu Touch != Ubuntu for Android09:30
FabianSNontheless Ubuntu Touch currently uses android kernels.09:30
Stskeepsand libhybris, pioneered technology by jolla09:31
FabianS"For quick reference, these are the current components used from Android:09:31
FabianSLinux Kernel (stock Android kernel provided by the vendor, with a few changes to support some extra features needed by Ubuntu)"09:31
FabianSRunning a stock Linux kernel is a whole different story.09:32
Stskeepsi think it's fair to say that if you want a product out by this side of the apocalypse, you need to use what your ODM provided you, which means a heavily patched android kernel09:34
FabianSBut that makes things an awful lot harder.09:36
FabianSYou can't just compile your OS from sources like you can on a PC.09:37
FabianSWhich means that you also have to customize the ROM for every single device.09:37
Take^What I'm expecting is that when Jolla, Ubuntu, Firefox, Nemo and others get their s*t together there will be loads of Chinese manufacturers who adapt to that09:38
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Take^The same ones who currently make sub-$100 "smartphones"09:38
FabianSIt looks like FF OS will only ship on cheap 100€ devices.09:38
FabianSWhich I couldn't care less about.09:39
Take^You might not, but there's huge market for cheap smartphones09:40
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FabianSBut I don't care.09:40
Take^They're currently filled with either S40 nokias, some propietary-chinese-thingy or android09:40
FabianSI won't buy a smartphone that is worse than my 3 year old android for sure.09:40
Take^If even a fraction of those phones on the future are linux-based (other than android) it'll draw attention from hw manufacturers and they'll open their hardware on the process09:41
Take^Since if you're planning to build $20 'smart'phone I'd assume that it's easier to open the hardware than keep your own branch of kernel09:42
Take^Well, s/easier/cheaper09:43
Yanielmost likely09:43
Yanieland the hw is probably not that fancy either so no worries about having the specs publicly available09:44
Take^And since there isn't really that many chip manufacturers that should open doors to run vanilla linux on higher end hardware as well09:44
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pavelmHello, everyone.09:50
pavelmAFAICT sailfish is expected to contain android emulator/runtime09:55
pavelmI'd like to play with that, are sources available somewhere?09:55
aard_pavelm: no09:55
pavelmaard: Too bad :-(. Thanks for the info. (Will the sources be released with the first hardware?)10:08
Take^No one knows by now10:08
Take^Or atleast those who know won't tell10:08
Take^I tried to ask that from jolla via twitter but they haven't replied yet10:08
pavelmtake: :-)10:08
aard_for android runtime, unlikely.10:09
pavelmaard: Too bad. I'd like to run android apps on the desktop, eventually, without overhead of whole-system emulator.10:10
pavelm(of course, it should be google providing android runtime, but...)10:13
aard_our runtime would not be very useful on your desktop10:14
pavelmHmm, why not? (Make it my desktop and n900). X is used on sailfish, so it should run, no? I guess it would be no GPS etc, but...10:16
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Take^http://jollatides.com/2013/05/20/jollaloveday-qa/  "From what I could gather, the plan therefore is to wait until the device has been released and then open up the code once the hard work has been done which makes sense."10:17
Take^So, it'll take another while until we'll get to play with sailfish on actual hardware10:18
Stskeepswell, people already took x86 emulator and put it different places10:18
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locusfhow can I configure the debugger for Windows SDK?12:53
Yanieldoes it not work out of the box?12:53
locusfit says "No debugger set up"12:54
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locusfyep, Debugger in "Build & Run" -> Kits says "GDB Engine <None>"12:56
lbtlocusf: o/13:00
locusflbt: \o13:00
lbttbh I'm not sure about debugger - I thought it just worked13:01
* lbt adds gdb tests to QA13:01
lbtr3d: ^^ please add debug tests to QA :)13:01
Stskeepscross-gdb should be available13:02
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lbtlocusf: gdb to emulator I assume?13:08
locusfyes I guess13:10
locusfnever used debugger on qt creator thus far13:10
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trialFrom Twitter Just recently :Béranger ‏@beranger_v4 49 perc  @JollaHQ It's impossible. Take a clean Win7-32bit laptop, install VirtualBox then your SDK, and the keys will be rejected for the device.13:18
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ranierehi, the sailfish os will have blobs in it source?14:38
raniereif yes, any plan for a version similar to replicant?14:38
lbtraniere: we take a different approach14:39
lbtwe build mainly in the open using mer/nemo projects and then layer on them to make sailfish14:40
lbtso mer/nemo are the fully open baselines14:40
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locusfbtw the reason I'd need the debugger is to figure out a C++ method call which results in segfault14:48
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Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: linux ?15:07
Sfiet_Konstantinthe dbg _should_ work under windows15:07
Sfiet_Konstantinbut it seems no then15:07
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locusfSfiet_Konstantin: windows unfortunately15:12
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lbtlocusf: can you give me a nice reproduceable test please15:22
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locusflbt: on my bug or on debugger not working?15:25
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lbtmainly debugger15:26
locusfok, click "Debug" icon on bottom right corner of Qt Creator, running on Windows 815:27
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locusfbottom left to be exact15:30
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locusflbt: red herring :) ?15:33
* lbt doesn't have a windows box15:33
lbtso I need a reliable set of steps to verify it :)15:33
lbtI have a test box but it's not in win atm15:34
lbtand it's win715:34
locusfI should reboot to linux just to debug15:34
locusfnot a biggie but I need autologin etc for my mum15:34
lbtyou should reboot to linux to feel clean15:35
locusfI miss my ZFS pool15:35
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locusfI can't run my X for long time in Ubuntu15:39
locusfnvidia :/15:40
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sardinihello, I don't know if i must ask here or on #mer, you know if espeak or something like will be on jolla?18:18
wmaroneyou'd have to ask in #jollamobile and, even there, I don't think you'd get an answer18:24
wmaronenot yet at least18:24
sardiniwmarone, yes I suppose the answer is "why not"18:25
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Sfiet_Konstantinsardini: not sure that espeak is shipped with Mer / Nemo18:38
Sfiet_Konstantinyou will have to package it18:38
Sfiet_Konstantinusing Mer OBS it shoiuldn't be hard18:38
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skjdjkhello everyone20:22
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frecelis there an x86 build of sailfish23:38
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lbtfrecel: yes - that's what's on the emulator in the SDK23:57
frecelIs there an image that w23:57
frecel... i could put on an x86 device?23:58
frecelas a primary OS23:58
lbtit's been done - google for tablet/sailfish23:58
lbtit's a hacker experiment though23:58
lbtthe emulator isn't useable as a daily OS though23:59

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