Saturday, 2013-06-08

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dosHi , where is the sailfish store?? exists ?? is possible for see it ?00:15
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Sfiet_Konstantinhello GentSir11:59
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, morning mate11:59
GentSirHow're your projects going?12:00
Sfiet_Konstantinsadly i'm nto moving as fast as I would like12:02
GentSirWhat's getting in your way?12:06
GentSirOf your actual apps you're working on?12:19
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ericccA  NICE  DAY12:37
Stskeepsericcc: indeed it is12:43
GentSirA nice day for someone to slip me a n950 *wink*12:49
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Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: Nemo middleware: social QML plugin12:56
Sfiet_Konstantinnice day all !12:56
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ericccSfiet_Konstantin:  did  you play the test phone?12:58
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, well, plenty of other things to enjoy in life :)12:58
Sfiet_Konstantinericcc: what ? The Jolla ?12:59
Sfiet_Konstantinhell yeah12:59
ericccyep  the  jolla13:00
ericccjolla  phone13:00
Sfiet_Konstantinit is awesome13:00
FabianSSfiet_Konstantin: Where did you get your hands on a Jolla Phone?13:01
Sfiet_KonstantinJolla <3 Day13:01
FabianSWell, let's see what the smartphone looks like in the end of 2013.13:02
FabianSI need a new laptop first.13:02
FabianS*smartphone world13:02
GentSirI believe the Jolla will firmly be a niche product, but Jolla doesn't need Samsung level sales to stay afloat anyway13:04
Morpog_PCthey don't even need Nokia level sales to stay afloat13:05
Morpog_PC(nowadays Nokial level sales of course)13:06
Sfiet_Konstantindidn't they say that they need 1m ?13:06
Sfiet_Konstantin1 x 10^6 units13:06
FabianSIt's crazy that Nokia was the smartphone nr. 1 when they started Meego.13:06
FabianSAnd now they are down to single-digit percentage marketshare.13:07
GentSir1m is the number I see quoted as an example in places that say Jolla doesn't need huge sales13:07
Morpog_PCwell, they would have gone down with meego aswell, as they were pretty late with it due to all that restarts for it. But I do think it wouldn't be as worse as it is now with WP.13:08
Sfiet_Konstantin1m is huge though13:08
FabianSN9 sold more than 1m times.13:08
Stskeepsdo note that sailfish has more in common with; not so much with harmattan13:08
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: it would be worse: no apps13:08
FabianSAnd they didn't release the N9 in Germany, US and other core markets.13:08
Sfiet_Konstantinsource about N9 selling 1m13:09
Morpog_PCstskeeps, well meego was worse than harmattan, as it had no product release ever...13:09
GentSir I have an unlocked N9, brilliant phone13:09
Stskeepsnemo mobile and sailfish has a lot in common, :P13:09
Sfiet_Konstantinthe smartphone market is just about n x 10^9 devices13:09
Sfiet_Konstantinso Sailfish needs at least 0.1%13:09
Sfiet_Konstantinthat is huge for me13:09
Morpog_PCSfiet_Konstantin, i don't agree, they could have used existing Qt based apps from Symbian. It would have started slow of course, but not worse than WP did.13:10
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: WP is supported by MS13:10
Sfiet_Konstantinaka by $$$$$13:10
Sfiet_Konstantinso big companies like Rovio or EA13:10
Sfiet_Konstantinor companies that wrote popular apps (FB, Evernote, Foursquare) might get interested13:11
GentSirThe Jolla is pretty much a phone foro nerds at this point13:11
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Sfiet_Konstantinhonestly, who will write apps for Sailsih ? No marketshare + compatibilty for Android, so just use android apps)13:11
Sfiet_KonstantinFabianS: that's not a source, that's a speculation13:12
Sfiet_Konstantinthere is no official source about the N9 sales number13:12
FabianSOf course not.13:12
Morpog_PCSfiet_Konstantin, back then Nokia also had lots of $$$ and as you see with Microsoft, $$$ is not all you need to be successfull13:12
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FabianSMicrosoft is still extremely sucessfull.13:12
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: still, it is useful to have $$$13:13
Sfiet_Konstantinhow N9 got a Foursquare port on N9 ?13:13
Sfiet_KonstantinNokia $$$13:13
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Morpog_PCI'm sure the guys at Jolla know the sale figures for N9. Else they would be crazy to try to sell a meego based OS :)13:13
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: of cause, and I think that it should be OK for Jolla to be successful13:14
Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, I'm just a bit tensed about that goal for profitablility13:14
Morpog_PCwell, maybe they are ok with it if the first device is about 0 profit after all.13:14
Morpog_PCSecond device should have it easier then to enter market.13:15
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: they need money for 2nd device :P13:15
Sfiet_KonstantinI think that the 1st device will be OK13:15
Morpog_PCinvestors :)13:16
Sfiet_Konstantinhonestly, it is just ... awesome13:16
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: if the 1st device is not profitable, investors are more reluctant to invest13:16
Morpog_PCi hope display gets better and bezel smaller for final device :)13:16
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Morpog_PCYou don't know what they told the investors for 1st device. Maybe they are ok with no profit.13:17
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Morpog_PCseeing it as a long term investment13:17
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Morpog_PCthe funds jolla collected are just peanuts in the big smartphone world13:17
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: +1+1+113:18
Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, for Jolla, what they collected is already something13:18
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat I would know is if there is more members in the Sailfish alliance13:18
FabianSI hope they still manage to build something good.13:18
FabianSOUYA failed hard.13:18
GentSirThe first phone looks very nice to me, but I'm sure it'll have its issues. What I'm signaling by buying one is that I have hopes for the platform and for them to do much better once they have the funds.13:19
Morpog_PCthey will I'm sure. But I don't think they could ramp up for large numers of devices. They are too small for that yet.13:19
FabianSIt's not easy to compete with companies like Samsung.13:19
Morpog_PCthey compete with much smaller companies13:19
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Morpog_PCGeeksphone, Xiaomi, Meizu, etc.13:20
Sfiet_Konstantinand Chinese manufacturers are the most dangerous ones13:20
Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, people at Jolla are meticulous, and progressing step by step13:21
GentSirIf they were making an Android phone that's who they'd be competing with. It's a brand new platform, every phone company is their competition.13:21
GentSirThe Jolla isn't just a phone, it's a brand new platform.13:21
Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: however, their size make them like Geeksphone or Xiaomi13:22
Sfiet_Konstantinthey have the same advantages (agility, no need of huge sales), and defaults (lack of funds for ads, high death rate)13:22
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, Yes, I understand that13:23
FabianSThey want to sell a 400€ phone.13:23
FabianSThey have to compete with samsung.13:23
Morpog_PCWhy that?13:23
GentSirThe little phone makers typically sell Android devices I can go buy for $100 cash13:23
Morpog_PCthats not true anymore, look at phones from Xiaomi or Meizu or Oppo, their prices are high nowadays13:24
FabianSI have no idea who or what Xiaomi, Meizo or Oppo are.13:25
GentSirI've only heard of Oppo, which was in this channel just yesterday13:25
Sfiet_KonstantinOppo jkust got way better specs for 400€13:25
GentSirThose are no name brands, just how Jolla is to the vast majority of users13:26
Sfiet_Konstantin13MPX cam13:26
Sfiet_Konstantin4 cores13:26
Stskeepsyou guys should go to shenzhen and get a massive shock..13:26
Stskeepsor take a look at once in a while13:26
FabianSThey probably just re-sell chinese OEM stuff.13:26
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Morpog_PCStskeeps, yeah I've seen some documentations from shenzen :)13:27
Morpog_PCBut in the end I have to look what I pay for such a phone here in germany, not how cheap you can get it in china.13:27
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: the Oppo is 400€ in europe13:27
FabianSWhich isn't really cheap.13:28
Sfiet_Konstantinwith the specs of ~GS413:28
Sfiet_Konstantinthat is 500 or 600€13:28
FabianSMore expensive than N4 and SGS3.13:28
FabianSNote II is ~440€13:28
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Morpog_PCThey are all 1 year old13:29
FabianSSo what?13:29
Morpog_PCI'm huessing the Jolla will get cheaper too13:29
Morpog_PCNew stuff = more expansive13:29
Stskeepsalso, those same cheap phones are appearing in supermarkets in europe..13:29
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Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, Stskeeps said that the oppo find 5 do not have 4G13:30
Sfiet_Konstantinunlike the Jolla13:30
Morpog_PCalso we don't know what the Jolla cpu is.13:30
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: but we don't care13:30
GentSiror what LTE bands the Jolla actually uses13:31
Sfiet_Konstantinbecause Sailfish runs so smoothly on 1Ghz single core13:31
Morpog_PCIt could be a dual core A15 style cpu. I would prefer that to any quad core around.13:31
Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: I guess CPU is not revealed because diffrent CPUs will be used to support different LTE bands13:31
FabianSMorpog_PC: No way.13:31
FabianSA15 is much too big.13:31
Morpog_PCthere aren't that much dual core ARM cpus with LTE around or?13:32
FabianSAre there any A15 SoCs actually in use in phones?13:33
Morpog_PCGalaxy S413:34
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: which variant13:34
Sfiet_Konstantinocta or the other one ?13:34
Sfiet_Konstantinor both ?13:34
FabianSMost A15 CPUs can't be cooled in a Smartphone.13:34
Morpog_PC4 cortex a15 and 4 cortex a713:35
dm8tbrwhich is really just a quadcore from userspace perspective13:35
FabianSEven the big Nexus 10 has thermal problems.13:35
FabianSA15 isn't efficient.13:35
Morpog_PCwell, they all re 32nm, new A15 could be manufacured in 28nm13:36
FabianSIt is still a huge piece of silicon.13:36
Morpog_PClike TI OMAP 5430 or 543213:36
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* Stskeeps thinks anything above dual core is overrated for current user experiences13:37
Morpog_PCbut dual core should be a must, I hate it when my N9 lags at music playing while surfing on a heavy site for example13:39
Stskeepssure, but that's not always related to cores13:40
Stskeepsdual cores definately help13:40
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Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: +113:41
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* Stskeeps personally doesn't like harmattan much13:43
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Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: why ?13:44
Morpog_PCui wise or architecture wise?13:45
Stskeepsdead toolkit (mtf), clear it doesn't reach 60fps in many places, aegis, technically a 4 year old architecture13:45
Morpog_PCwell, nothing to disagree with13:46
Stskeepsplus naturally all the resources the project sucked out of real meego effort13:46
FabianSNo smartphone OS reaches constant 60 fps on N9-like hardware.13:46
FabianSNot even iOS on the iPhone 4.13:46
StskeepsFabianS: you'd be surprised what is possible on that kind of hw13:47
FabianSSo what?13:47
Stskeepsthough yes, in composited mode, it won't get constant 60fps13:47
FabianSThe N9 is not a fast phone at all.13:47
dm8tbrThe MS guys managed to squeeze 60fps out of quite comparable hardware. See Lumia80013:49
Sfiet_KonstantinFabianS: sailfish runs "smoothly" on the N95013:49
Sfiet_Konstantindm8tbr: dual core13:49
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dm8tbrSfiet_Konstantin: nope13:49
FabianSLumia 800 is single core.13:49
FabianSA bit faster than the N9 though.13:49
Sfiet_Konstantinno ? damn :S13:49
dm8tbrMSM8255 is a S2 single core13:49
FabianSAnd WP7 runs hardly any background tasks.13:49
dm8tbryeah, one site lists it at 1.4GHz13:50
FabianSAnd I'm not sure if it can keep 60 fps all the time.13:50
Morpog_MobileAnd its an a9 based cpu or?13:50
FabianSWP is fast, but it's really hard to get a stable frame rate out of a slow single-core ARM with slow GPU.13:50
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dm8tbrwell actually not exactly A8, but the QC independent implementation codenamed scorpion with a similar feature set13:52
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Morpog_PCso about 30% faster than N9s CPU. GPU could be faster too14:02
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Morpog_PCI really hope for a Intel Silvermont based dual core CPU. That would be great. It's 22nm! That thing would last very long and would destroy some quad core ARM cpu's. Original Meego was supposed to run on Intel x86 too I guess.14:20
Stskeepsthose aren't even sampling yet14:20
FabianSAtoms are doing quite well in phones.14:21
FabianSThe Motorola Razr i beats almost anything in battery life.14:21
Morpog_PCyep, and that new Silvermont is a new generation of mobile atoms14:21
Morpog_PCnot comparable to the old ones14:22
FabianSBut the Jolla Phone will be ARM based for sure.14:22
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Morpog_PCWhy so sure? Emulator is already in x86.14:22
FabianSBecause Jolla doesn't have the money or resources to build anything experimental.14:23
Morpog_PCWhy experimental?14:23
FabianSIt will be a simple OEM ARM china phone.14:23
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Stskeepsfwiw intel based phones are hardly experimental anymore..14:27
FabianSI can buy exactly one in EU.14:27
FabianSThat is the razr i.14:27
FabianSAnd I can buy like a bazillion ARM based phones from all sorts of vendors.14:28
rashm2kthere is also the orange san diego14:30
rashm2kalso intel14:30
FabianSI can't even buy that one.14:31
Morpog_PCand lenovo k90014:31
FabianSSame goes for the k900.14:31
FabianSNot sold in EU.14:31
Morpog_PCWell, main target for Jolla is china if you remember14:31
rashm2korange san diego is available in uk14:32
FabianSBut I'm not in the UK.14:32
Morpog_PCThey always stated to target for China and some european markets.14:32
FabianSMorpog_PC: Source?14:32
Morpog_PCalmost every ceo interview14:33
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Morpog_PCFabianS, like that
Morpog_PCalso they signed a deal with D.Phone a chinese retail store chain. And the sailfish alliance is based in hong kong and gathered 200 million euros14:36
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