Monday, 2013-11-04

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artemmaCan I somehow specify a custom executable for the remote device?00:39
artemmaQtCreator doesn't recognize that my tests-subpackage contains a binary, so it doesn't offer anything runnable00:39
artemmaand I cannot specify custom executable - it's searched n build machine, not on the emulator :/00:40
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coderusis there conversation log available?08:16
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coderuscybette: thanks :)09:26
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artemmawhat do you guys think about the file chooser discussion in mailing list16:11
artemmaI figured I already posted a couple of times about that topic, so maybe I better discuss in chat to hear the others' opinion better16:12
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artemmashortly I have 3 points:16:16
artemma1. I think that decision on how to choose documents/files/object should strongly come from Jolla guidelines (including the whole concept. E.g. maybe they make OS document centric, then File->Open should not even exist unless you really need it). Then we just follow16:16
artemma2. If we do go for exposing file system, then there should be real strong guideline on where app is to store own data and how to integrate it to common storage and other apps. So that photos from SD card would actually be shown in some logical place, so that you wouldn't store PDFs in 10 different unknown places16:16
artemma3. As a personal preference I would go further from file dialogs. It's really 20 century concept, people have photos, documents, maybe folders, but not directories.16:16
artemmaor shall that be a topic more for #jollamobile? :)16:17
YanielI think it fits both16:17
Yaniel1. yes, keep it consistent16:17
Yanieleven if that means being somewhat like iOS and WP16:17
Yaniel(we still get a terminal, don't we?)16:17
Yaniel2. consistency is always great16:18
Yaniel3. maybe rather have tags?16:18
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artemmaYaniel: yeah, tags could be an alternative16:42
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Yanielalthough apple might dislike that :D16:42
Yanielbut I like the idea16:43
artemmaI am just living on the different platforms because of my job. Like last month or two i am on Android, before I was on Appel, earlier - on MeeGo and Symbian and Android too16:43
artemmaand.. Apple's no files paradigm sorta works16:43
artemmaI can even see why they killed SD cards. Sure it let's them charge more, but it also simplifies UI a great deal16:43
M4rtinKonce you have more than a dozen of some files/data object any general paradigm other than files/folder falls apart fast16:47
M4rtinKI don't mind having file indexers and being able to pull list of stuff based on tags or origin16:48
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M4rtinKbut it should be the only interface to storage16:48
M4rtinKunless you just want to have an apple toy clone16:48
M4rtinKone usage example - the Mieru offline manga/comic book reader16:49
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M4rtinKcomic books files are usually archives with ordered images in them16:50
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M4rtinKwithout any additional metadata16:50
M4rtinKand while some are at least using the cbr/cbz extension, this is not universal and just plain rar and zip files are also used16:51
M4rtinKand some users might just prefer to have images stored in folders16:51
M4rtinKwhile it should be fairly easy to get all *.cbz/*.cbr files16:52
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M4rtinKunless it is a strong AI, Tracker has no sure way to find out what images comprise a comic book16:52
M4rtinKand forcing the user to find their comic books from all zip and rar files on the device is also a no-go16:53
M4rtinKso that is my point of view16:53
M4rtinKboth are fine; but both should be available16:54
artemmaI am not sure how it's related to file picker if it's very app-specific data..16:55
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M4rtinKthe user needs to be able to select the file16:55
artemmaexcept that maybe in this particular case you may like to hide individual images from normal gallery completely16:55
M4rtinKpreferably using a native file picker, like in every sane OS16:55
artemmaWell, that's a great example I think.16:57
M4rtinKBTW, any idea if it is possible to mark a folder not to be indexed on Sailfish ?16:57
M4rtinKwithout modifying config files ?16:57
M4rtinKIIRc on Android is is possible to place a special file to the folder and the sub-tree will not be indexed16:58
artemmait would be great to have somebody from jolla UX team to just go through several reference cases like that. You know, app for opening standard files (PDF, PNG), composed filetypes (these manga books), own or specific formats (FB2)16:58
artemmaand in/out of SD card subcases16:58
* artemma is just horrified with the Android-like hell of who-knows-in-which-dir-and-source-the-file-is16:58
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M4rtinKand with every app having their own barely functioning file chooser :)16:59
M4rtinKI don't mind if they don't have it in the first release16:59
artemmahopefully mailing list discussion will produce something good16:59
artemmamaybe now I can add my thoughts there17:00
M4rtinKthey must be working themselves like crazy ATM17:00
M4rtinKbut some acknowledgment would be nice :)17:00
M4rtinKwhile this channel is IIRC logged, MLs are a lot more persistent & visible channel17:01
Sfiet_Konstantinlong discussion out there17:03
Sfiet_Konstantinartemma: I totally agree with 1 2 317:03
Sfiet_Konstantinbut there is something I would like to note17:03
Sfiet_Konstantin1. perfs: it takes time and CPU to crawl files, and it might reduce your battery life17:04
artemmaSfiet_Konstantin: imho that is an important topic. Maybe even more important than engineering peculiarities. choosing manga books is what users will do17:04
Sfiet_Konstantinartemma: totally agree17:04
M4rtinKI only hope so :)17:04
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artemmachip into the mailing list discussion then. IMHO, at the moment it's the only way to draw attention to it, especially at the times close to the device release17:04
Sfiet_Konstantin2. extensibility ? For picking a MP3 or an image it is ok to have tracker index stuff etc. but if your app requires a specific input format how do you do ?17:05
Sfiet_Konstantindo you extend the indexer ?17:05
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Sfiet_Konstantinhave some sort of scripting over tracker ?17:05
Sfiet_Konstantinor simply aren't able to do anything ?17:05
artemmaas for performance, it's very valid point indeed, yet if the guidelines are strong and well thought throw it can be aided. E.g. app could advice the indexer17:05
Sfiet_Konstantinand about tags, I like like like this idea, but the nepomuk project in KDE keeps preventing me in getting deeper in it17:06
Sfiet_Konstantinartemma: I don't know tracker, and the problem is that most devs might not know about tracker17:06
M4rtinKalso, visibility17:06
artemmaSfiet_Konstantin: it *can* (doesn't have to, just an option) be solved on really a UI level: like a real strong advice to store everything interoperable at /usr/share/appname17:06
M4rtinKthe indexing takes a >0 time in any case17:07
artemmaor /opt/commondata/appname17:07
M4rtinKso if you dump a 20 GB of data to the device, you can't work with it at once, unlike just selecting a file17:07
M4rtinKalso remote/cloud storage - you can't probably index that at all - or at least you shouldn't :)17:08
M4rtinKBTW, being able to specify a custom file type to tracker would be nice17:09
M4rtinKlike "Monav routing data packs have this extension, are at least this big and have this header"17:09
artemmaM4rtinK: if your app gets assigned /opt/share/commondata/yourname you can just offer files from it + optionally from whatever else is indexed17:10
Sfiet_Konstantinartemma: are you talking about app data ?17:11
Sfiet_Konstantinnever store in /opt/ that belongs to root17:11
artemmawell, /usr/share then :)17:11
Sfiet_KonstantinI will store it in ~/.local/share/*17:11
Sfiet_Konstantinor ~/.cache17:11
Sfiet_Konstantinno, usr belongs to root too17:12
Sfiet_Konstantinanything not in /home/nemo/ belongs to root17:12
artemmaand that is the perfect example :)17:12
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M4rtinKimho, /opt/* should be generally ro for non root users17:12
M4rtinKBTW, Sailfish should stick to proven linux standards as closely as possible - Posix, LSB, freedesktop if possible17:13
M4rtinKotherwise you get Android & optification hell17:13
artemmaI know nothing except that Creator puts app data to /usr, you would put it to ~/cache, somebody else would notice that creator deploys to /opt with copying binaries method. How is poor user supposed to know where to look for his manga book and.. is this folder really a manga book or just a folder? :)17:13
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M4rtinKI suppose the main data folder is a good start17:14
M4rtinKthe MyDocs equivalent17:14
M4rtinKwell, another interesting topic - does Sailfish have MyDocs ? :)17:15
M4rtinKwhat about mass storage/samba access ? :)17:16
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M4rtinKfor example BB10 has only samba and Android >=4 seems to be also getting rid of it17:16
M4rtinK(getting rid of mass-storage)17:17
EztranWell, mass storage access on the SD card wouldn't be surprising, like with MyDocs in Harmattan.17:17
M4rtinKyeah, on that much of an issue on a card17:17
M4rtinKon the other hand MS on build in storage is a problem17:18
M4rtinKas it works on the block layer and thus basically requires you to have a separate FAT32 partition (so that Windows can read it)17:18
EztranYup, Windows users would be complaining pretty quickly if the mountable part wasn't FAT.17:19
EztranDeciding where to put things when you have some storage removable and some permanently connected doesn't seem easy.17:20
M4rtinK& provides more fun for indexer developers :)17:21
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coderushello. in last 1 hour i'm getting mustiq error: error: 'qmlRegisterType' was not declared in this scope17:31
coderusbut 2 hours ago same code compiled perfectly :D17:31
fk_lxwell then revert to version from two hours earlier17:33
coderuswow, new errors coming:17:34
coderuserror: invalid use of incomplete type 'struct QGuiApplication'17:34
coderuserror: invalid use of incomplete type 'struct QQuickView'17:35
coderusfk_lx: but no changes since last 2 hours :D17:35
fk_lxcoderus: seem you are master hacker - changing the behavior without touching anything :-)17:36
coderusfk_lx: just went from work to home and recompiled :D17:36
coderusbtw, what is minimap .pro  f ile content for sailfish qt5 quick application?17:37
fk_lxcoderus: seems like your OS doesn't want you to work at home ;-)17:37
fk_lxcoderus: sorry for my sense of humor ;-)17:38
coderusfk_lx: its okay. i can be sarcastic too :D17:38
coderusseems my "sailfishapp" pkgconfig is broken :D17:40
fk_lxwell create new project, copy code17:41
fk_lxugly, but simple workaround17:41
fk_lxunless you have time to dig and solve the problem without such radical steps ;-)17:41
coderusfk_lx: i have huge amount of time. will let you know if i can solve it simple way :D17:43
fk_lxanyway, bbl17:43
coderusbtw, my WhatsApp client is coming to Sailfish :D17:44
fk_lxcoderus: \o/17:44
fk_lxcoderus: although I'm not using WhatsApp at all ;-)17:45
fk_lxcoderus: I'm happy for a new app17:45
fk_lxanyway, now really gotta go17:45
coderusalso i'm happy sailfish emulator showing my laptop battery state :D17:48
coderusits great idea17:48
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faenilcoderus, great :)17:55
artemmacoderus: have you upgraded the sdk lately? :)17:56
artemmahad similar issues when porting from old sdk not carefully17:57
artemmasailfish app config is doing a bit too much magic17:57
coderusartemma: no, have no ability to upgrade my sdk. still using old :)17:58
coderusmy bandwidth now is 128kbps :D17:58
artemmayou can probably fix it or you can repeat what sailfish app config is doing manually as I am doing at embedchannels'17:58
artemmaah, well, then my advice is probably irrelevant, you maybe got your sdk broken17:59
coderusartemma: is avoiding "sailfishapp" let me to use launcher booster>17:59
artemmasorry, have to leave now, good luck17:59
artemmaas for minimal project, I created the simplest possible example with the test (I just have to have the tests folder) at
artemmabut.. it's for the old sdk, needs to be updated :)18:00
artemmamight work for the new one too, but better to be updated to new config18:00
coderusthanks +)18:01
artemmapull requests are welcome BTW ;)18:01
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