Friday, 2014-04-04

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coderusartemma no i'm not04:41
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coderusartemma: no, i'm not working on telegram06:48
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Accehmm are you talking half in private or is there something wrong with my ignore rules?07:05
Stskeepsor just answering things late ;)07:05
jussiAcce: yeah, I think Stskeeps is right :P07:06
Acceoh yeah :)07:06
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artemmacoderus: had such impression from your TMO messages07:24
artemmaI wanted to discuss telegram with somebody. Implementing protocol isn't much fun, existing library is GPL, so app got to be GPL too, I never tried it before07:25
artemmawas also thinking of trying some collaboration is there's somebody else into telegram07:26
ln-artemma: also, firing laser pointers at helicopters is very close to an attempted murder, so 14 years sounds appropriate (especially on the US scale)07:26
artemmaln-: yeah, I guess I just can't stop being impressed by US scales07:27
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admiral0artemma: I'm interested in a qt-lib for telegram07:45
admiral0I'd like to implement it in pure C++/Qt/QCA so it can be used almost anywhere07:45
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artemmaadmiral0: me too :) I would be into a Telegram UI, possibly cool tricks with scheduling, but low level MTProto lib.. would like to touch it a little only - too much work07:56
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admiral0i agree it's too much work, and that's why i didn't start. I need somebody to help07:57
artemmatelegram-cli could be a good start for it (even though it seems to use Lua somewhere), but it's GPL, so can't be used in closed source and I have issues with understanding biz models with GPL apps07:57
admiral0i would LGPLv3 the lib07:58
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coderusartemma: why developing closed source applications?07:58
artemmacoderus: for biz models only. Can't understand how to make money on GPL code07:59
ruskieartemma, you can sell the app as long as you provide the code(and the user is free to share the code onward)07:59
coderusartemma: you want make modey on telegram client?07:59
coderuson flashlight application?07:59
ruskiethat's the essence07:59
artemmaand I totally don't mind opening telegram code as long as it is for studying privacy issues or maybe compiling for yourself07:59
dr_gogeta86good morning guys08:00
ruskieartemma, GPL doesn't let you limit the scope08:00
coderusi cant explain it for peoples earning money for ignoring opensource08:00
coderusby ignoring*08:00
Nicd-ruskie: but you can't prevent your users sharing the code onwards for free either08:00
artemmayeah, I would like to have some earnings involved. And I can't see how to do it with GPL08:01
ruskieNicd-, I said as much08:01
tbrit's a difference in business model08:01
Nicd-so your income is now only based on the users' good will08:01
artemmathat is unless you control the server or some other added services08:01
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coderusartemma: just dont touch please these kind of software with your proprietary hands08:02
ruskieartemma, a lot of projects go with opencore... i.e. the core tool is free but extras like enterprise integrations and such like are extra addons08:02
artemmaruskie: oh yeah, that would do08:02
coderusadmiral0: tg-cli converted to tglib08:02
ruskieartemma, but again if you are linking with things that are GPL you might hit the same issues08:03
artemmaruskie: exactly08:03
ruskieartemma, most of those projects tend to be the copyright holders of the code so they can relicense things08:03
artemmaI don't mind people seeing what's inside the code as long as it is me who distributes binaries through app stor08:03
ruskiemight chat in #gnu about that08:04
ruskiethere might be people there that might have some more ideas on that08:04
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artemmacoderus: sorry, can't understand comment about proprietary hands. Open source people are cool, I wouldn't mind opening mine as well, just can't see earnings there08:04
ruskieGPL isn't anti-commercial08:04
coderusartemma: its okay for me until i dont know who is developer and why application is proprietary. but i cant ignore it after seeing comments like yours about gpl08:04
artemmacomments like I can't understand how to make money with gpl code? Didn't know it sounded scary08:05
ruskiejust pro-user and requirse the user gets the same access to the code and can do the same things with the code as the owner(sans outright charging something insane)08:05
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coderusartemma: why you cant sell opensource application? i dont understand08:05
artemmacoderus: because somebody else can release it for free on the very same app store on the very same day08:06
artemmathat is with GPL license08:06
coderusno they cant after you licensed your code08:06
coderusthey cant just recompile/remane application and release it08:06
coderusits illegal08:06
coderusthats why these licensing stuff exists08:06
artemmacoderus: nope. As long as it is GPL, they have to be able to do it. That's my understanding, would love to be wrong08:06
ruskiethey can08:06
ruskiethey can recomplie and release it08:07
ruskieas long as they stick with the GPL08:07
coderusthey can use parts of code, but not whole code08:07
ruskieand release the sources08:07
Nicd-coderus: they can use all of it08:07
coderusand they cant say they developed it08:07
ruskiecoderus, they can reuse the whole code08:07
Nicd-it's GPL, they're free to release it08:07
coderusNicd-: sure they can08:07
ruskiecoderus, that's the only definition08:07
artemmaas long as you used single GPL bit in your code (e.g. telegram lib) you have to provide sources of the whole app under GPL compatible stuff. Was re-reading GNU faq about it just yesterday08:07
ruskiethey can't claim ownership on it08:07
coderusydut cant distribute it as own project08:07
ruskiecoderus, you can08:08
sharpneliartemma: Unless you use LGPL08:08
Nicd-coderus: they can just rename it and say that it's based on artemma's work08:08
chem|stcoderus: there are different licenses for what you think08:08
coderusyup. i'm not talking about plain vanila GPL :D08:08
chem|stopen source does not mean everything is GPL...08:08
admiral0coderus: thank you08:08
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artemmathat's the point of GPL. It "pollutes" your code. You have to release whole app under same GPL terms. Sure you can have your name there, no problem with it. Yet other people *have* to be able to release same code08:08
sharpneliYes that is true. If you make a library and release it under GPL then everyone who uses it must do it like that.08:09
ruskiecoderus, this is specific to GPL - the entire discussion08:09
* artemma was thinking of something like Creative Commons variations for things like Telegram: you can study code as much as you like, maybe compile for yourself, but not redistribute binaries08:09
ruskiecoderus, because a lib is GPL everything that links to it must be GPL08:09
coderusartemma: well. unless you doing something really revolutional and invented something yourself closing your code is what i cant understand08:10
Nicd-I just use MIT for my little apps08:10
artemmacoderus: did I forgot to mention I'd like to see a monetization angle and I can't see it in GPL?08:10
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coderusartemma: nobody around you talking about GPL except you08:11
artemmaas long as somebody helps me to understand how TG client could earn money under GPL, I'll be happy to join08:11
coderusi'm talking about opensource, not gpl08:11
coderusgpl equal to opensource08:11
coderusopensource not equal to gpl08:11
artemmacoderus: well, that's how the whole discussion started: the only linux lib for tg api that i know is under GPL08:11
sharpneliartemma: GPL or LGPL?08:11
artemmaif there was less polluting license I'd be happy08:11
coderusartemma: actually you dont need to publish all your code if you using GPL parts08:12
chem|stcoderus: there is another reason... mask that you are using someone elses code for your commercial products08:12
coderusyou need to opensource only GPL parts08:12
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ruskiecoderus, he/she's linking to a GPL library... the whole must be GPL08:12
ruskieunless said library has a linking exception08:12
artemmacoderus: that's what I was trying to understand. And after reading as much as I could, my understanding is that there are very-very few exceptions. Normally as long as you use GPL lib n whichever way, the rest of the app got to be GPL as well08:13
ruskieartemma, yes... unless the copyright owners adds a linking exception(I believe gcc and glibc have such a thing)08:13
sharpneliThat's pretty much true. And it's allright. Someone wrote a GPL lib to get more programs released as GPL. They have the copyright so they can license it however they wish.08:13
artemmacoderus: it seems to be impossible (and illegal) to have "GPL only parts". Whole combined product has to be GPL unless you use GPL lib as a really separate app (e.g. communicate with it via pipes or CLI)08:14
chem|startemma: that is why people try to decompile android stuff...08:14
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ln-ruskie: glibc is LGPL anyway08:14
ruskieln-, true08:14
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ruskieI know that one or the other had or still has a linking exception08:14
coderusartemma: look at for example08:14
tantya common trick to avoid GPL linking problems is to use DBus08:14
tantybut that depends on the library and how you intent to use it, obviously08:15
artemmathere seems to be one exception that I don't fully understand: it seems to be okish for a GPL code to use other libs under non-GPL, so if you put most of your app into such a lib..08:15
UmeaboyHow ya'll doin'?08:15
artemmacoderus: in your link there's nothing about GPL08:15
ruskieartemma, he's off on a tangent08:15
ruskieartemma, yeah I guess that could work have the app be GPL and link it to a non-GPL lib that does stuff08:16
ruskieartemma, but you would need to manage those as separate projects08:16
tantyartemma, it is OK for the GPL code, you have to wonder if it is OK with the rest of the libraries used in your app08:16
tantybecause the app has to be GPL08:16
artemmatanty: DBUS is good if you are really building two communicating apps. If you are like using the lib, there could be questions08:16
tantyand it cannot be, if some of the other libs cannot adopt GPL08:17
artemmatanty: that part of GNU faq I failed to understand, but they did mention something about ability to use non-free libs08:17
sharpneliIt's all about the definition of derivative work. If you make a plugin for a commercial app that uses GPL then the plugin itself must be GPL, not the whole app naturally.08:18
artemmaAnyway: the whole point is that I am sad the only linux lib for TG is GPL and I can't see how to use it in app with monetization. Was hoping somebody could advise and could possibly be interested in joining.08:18
artemmaI also don't mind releasing client under GPL as long as there is an idea for biz model08:18
sharpneliartemma: Then you probably cannot. And that was almost certainly the intention of the developer.08:18
ballockartemma: see XChat -
ballockit's GPL allright08:19
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artemmasure, Sailfish world isn't about much money nowadays, but having earnings in mind helps me focus on doing valuable stuff08:19
ballockbut if you want a Windows binary, you need to buy it08:19
ballockof course, all the sources are there08:19
ln-ballock: the copyright holder is free to dual-license stuff as he wishes, as long as he is the only copyright holder.08:19
ballockln-: true, but GPL doesn't force you to give out stuff08:20
ballockyou need to provide the source along with the binary08:20
fzklicense everything under beerware08:20
admiral0artemma: you make stallman sad08:20
Skorpyartemma: you can always as for donations08:20
ln-ballock: actually, you don't need to, according to GPLv2.08:20
ln-ballock: you only need to provide the source upon request.08:20
ruskieln-, written offer valid for 3 years08:20
artemmaSkorpy: donations are difficult (almost impossible) for Finland. You need to get a special license for them08:21
ruskieif on request08:21
ballockthat means that if you sell the software, you provide the source to the buyer08:21
ballockoh, right08:21
Nicd-artemma: dunno if it would go under finnish law though as you're not finnish. but you're right, asking for donations is impossible in finland08:21
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artemmaNicd-: I live in Finland08:22
Nicd-stuff like kickstarter is also impossible here and that's sad08:22
Nicd-they're working on improving the situation though, I hear08:22
artemmaguys, I don't mind making TG under GPL as long as there are ideas for alternative biz model (added features maybe), I wanted to start a discussion on it, hoping maybe to have coderus there. Possibly I did such a discussion start the wrong way08:22
* Stskeeps sees gpl and gets popcorn..08:23
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artemmaor another way would be to implement TG lib on something less restrictive than GPL, would love to find partners for it too08:23
Nicd-I haven't used GPL for any of my stuff as it's restrictive. though none of my stuff is that important anyway08:23
tgwell, gpl has nothing to do with monetization08:23
* ln- wonders if many people would be interested in buying a support contract 08:24
Nicd-tg: but it does have serious implications with regards to monetization08:24
sharpneliartemma: Isn't telegram specific to that one company?08:24
sharpneliIt just accesses their services basically08:24
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artemmasharpneli: It's a useful messenger that I wouldn't mind to have myself, so now after finished log4qt demo I was thinking about the next project and why not tg08:26
cos-Nicd-: is asking for paypal donations really illegal in finland?08:26
artemmacos-: it's even more funny: it's legal to receive donations, but it's illegal to ask for them w/out a special license :)08:27
ln-cos-: yes it is.08:27
pp_gpl if you own copyright is pretty flexible08:27
Nicd-cos-: as they stated, you cannot ask for them (adding a donation button or bank account is "asking") but you can receive them08:27
cos-this is ridiculous08:27
Nicd-it is08:28
fzkyou have to get a permit from the police to ask for donations08:28
sharpneliBut begging on the other hand is legal, which is funny,.08:28
tgyou can still ask for money for it, even if it's gpl, for instance some ppl put their apps in app stores or ask money for the binaries, and release the source anyway for those who want to compile it themselves08:28
Nicd-fzk: but private persons cannot get that permit08:28
fzkNicd-: exactly08:28
ln-and not companies either08:28
ballockI overheards some conversation that as bitcoin was stated not to be money, you're free to ask for bitcoins ;)08:28
tgor you can provide services/support08:29
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cos-perhaps i'll need to start a company in hong kong or some other country without silly laws08:29
Stskeepsget paid in bitcoins?08:29
ballockwhy not?08:29
cos-too  difficult.. and almost nobody donates anyway :-(08:29
sharpneliartemma: Just make the program as GPL but don't release any graphical assets etc under it.08:30
coderuswell, i received enough donations when started Mitakuuluu for SailfishOS project08:30
cos-i actually have one app which is GPL but is commercial in google play. nobody has bought it.08:30
fzkthat thing sucks with foss, people havent gotten it that they must donate in order to keep the projects alive08:30
pp_oh, you can also get around gpl with popen() (ok, IANAL and it might get messy :-) )08:30
coderusbut today i receiving donations not so often...08:31
artemmacoderus: yeah, I was thinking about donations as well. Never tried them before, could have tried if it was possible in Finland08:31
Accecos-: you can _receive_ but cannot _ask_, so in practise you cannot even receive08:31
coderusjust ask someone to ask donations for you :)08:31
sharpnelipp_: to be strict even linking against GPL is not necessarily illegal as long as your program is not a derivative work of it. But I wouldn't want to try that in court.08:31
cos-Acce: yep. i'm a criminal.08:31
Accebecause who on earth wants to donate so badly they send you a message asking for bank account or paypal08:31
coderusmake a publisher08:31
artemmaadding non-free features sounds more interesting for me.. but I don't mind trying donations if somebody helps me understand08:32
artemmathe whole biz model08:32
fzkif someone started a organization to handle donations for devs in finland?08:32
coderuspublisher distribute binaries and opening support threads and asking donations for developer :)08:32
artemmafzk: I guess Jolla could do that08:32
fzkwouldnt that solve "it"?08:32
cos-perhaps some day sailfish has easy to use micropayment api08:32
fzksure, a lot of administration but still08:32
artemmafzk: so far Jolla's support to dev communities seems to be. limited08:33
coderusartemma: best way is creating individual company08:33
coderusand all your problems became solved automatically08:33
coderusjust pay fee08:33
artemmacoderus: it won't help donations issues (I have a company BTW). You need to get money collection license for asking for donations08:33
coderusyou dont need donations anymore, you start receiving payments08:34
ln-fzk: the organization would need to be somehow beneficial to society (+ other criteria), otherwise it wouldn't get the permit any more than a private individual would.08:34
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pp_you could do it by paying salary taxes etc.08:35
pp_for the "donations"08:35
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artemmacoderus: and we are back to the beginning of discussion: I don't know why payment-based apps would work for GPL apps, so I am looking for somebody to help me understand it or to help with building non-GPL telegram08:35
fzkln-: im thinking, lets say an entity that is specifically targeted for developers and projects08:35
cos-i'll start wearing motorcycle helmet hood while coding, like any true black hat hacker08:35
coderusartemma: just check from other stores08:35
fzki think that could be classed as benifical08:35
coderusare there too many free clones of paid opensource applications?08:35
artemmaor to help thinking about non-app-payment based biz models08:35
coderusi know only limited incidents08:36
artemmacoderus: I tried searching a little and couldn't find GPL apps that ask for payment. The only case seems to be, okay we compile it for windows for money08:36
coderusin real world (outside your mind) nobody want to recompile your application and distribute it08:36
fzkcoderus: except for companies08:36
artemmawell, I seem to be unable to find any GPL app that is actually sold in the *nix world. Maybe I searched not very well08:37
coderusfzk: examples please.08:37
coderusthere are many paid apps with building instructions at website08:37
fzkcoderus: im pretty sure big companies are interested in internals that could be competetive to their products08:37
coderusfzk: as i said before: "unless you doing something really amazing and popular"08:39
coderusmost of projects are "just apps"08:39
Raimartemma: Stellarium did that, it is GPL and they still sold the app for the N900/N908:39
coderusRaim: +108:39
artemmaRaim: thanks, will have a look at them!08:39
coderusi'm thinking you now searching problems before is really exists08:40
cos-i even bought stellarium, while knowing it's GPL08:40
Raimbut they also have Desktop versions for Windows/Linux/Mac for free and take donations... so not a full business model financing the development08:40
artemmaRaim: and others didn't release their code on the same N900 for free, because.. nobody cared?08:40
TheBootroo_workohai !08:40
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TheBootroo_workdunno what you guys think but i was wondering that between my 3 apps on the harbour, one has really ugly icon compared to others : Feed'me08:41
tbrthere are plenty of apps that are GPL but are being sold08:41
TheBootroo_worki could try to improve it a little08:41
artemmacoderus: so far I am only trying to understand the possible monetization angle. It sorta sucks to start while not having a smallest imonetization idea (that is if you care abt monetization)08:41
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ballockartemma: I guess in your case a GPL and an entry in the paid Jolla store would be more than good enough08:42
Raimartemma: I guess so. why bother to build it yourself or take someone else binaries as long as you you can get it from the store for a small price?08:43
artemmaballock: but then.. anybody could release same for free the very next day08:43
sharpneliBecause tbh requesting the sources and making your own app from that would take the same amount of time than just making the app from scratch08:43
ballockartemma: highly unlikely08:43
Raimbut that was mainly before OpenRepos/Warehouse existed, which would make such a distribution easier...08:43
Raimsharpneli: the threat would be that someone else produces binaries and makes them easily accessible for free, so nobody pays for your version any more.08:44
* artemma thinks it's time to get back to day work08:45
fzk^ pretty interesting talk about including funding08:45
* lbt sees backlog on money+GPL ... something he's keen on supporting08:45
coderusartemma: in real world paid proprietary warez applications have bigger amount than paid opensource warez08:45
sharpneliRaim: Sure there is that threat. But who would bother to do it?08:45
sharpneliRaim: We are talking about 1 dollar trivial app here.08:46
lbtsharpneli: some people will do it08:46
artemmaWell, I am into finding a company for doing something good with Telegram that is either non-GPL or with some monetization ideas if GPL is used (not big money necessary). If anybody is interested in joining, please, ping me. I didn't do much collaboration on private projct in the past, so would be interesting to try08:46
lbtand sell it for 0.5008:46
coderusartemma: about telegram: just find another project for yourself08:47
artemmaselling app is not necessary, additional services or something like that could be used08:47
sharpnelilbt: Keep the copyrights to the UI and graphics to yourself so they wouldn't really get much from having the sources.08:47
coderuslet telegram for opensoure peoples08:47
artemmacoderus: I can see that you are annoyed with idea of me touching telegram, but can't quite see why. Is the idea of making money from code so bad?08:47
sharpneliBtw. That reminded me. Releasing a game with sources under GPL and the assets as paid would work quite well.08:47
* lbt has a proposal that a small number of authors with a GPL app could essentially 'register' that app with the device store08:47
lbtand charge for it08:48
lbtthen if anyone else submits a clone the store makes a decision not to accept the app08:48
lbtthe store has no legal obligation to accept apps08:48
artemmacoderus: it's a pity, because I would like to collaborate. If the points of view are super-different, that may be impossible, but would love to understand why08:48
ballockoh, I remembered one thing: You know you can't sell Ubuntu due to trademarks?08:48
coderusartemma: its not about telegram08:48
ballockThere are trademarks as to the logos and images.08:49
coderusits about application/protocol already opensources08:49
lbtso that becomes a way fot a store to encourage the full GPL'ing of apps whilst allowing the main author(s) to be funded08:49
coderusand you want to make in proprietary for earning money08:49
ballockartemma: It will be illegal for a third-party to just recompile the software with the same name and logos and stuff.08:49
coderusi dont like when opensource goods became proprietary08:50
artemmaI don't mind at all having code open. For messenger that positions itself as secure, it is definitely wanted. I just want to find possible monetization there. So far I fail08:50
lbtballock: fwiw legal protection for an app making you a few hundred € is worthless08:50
coderusartemma: there are nothing about insecure in opensource08:50
lbteven a few thousand or even more08:50
lbtespecially if the other party is in a different country08:51
lbtso IMHO legal protection is worthless in this situation08:51
coderusopensource is even better for secure. because you can simply apply a patch08:51
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cos-for example flightgear project suffers from the rebuild+rename trolls. once in a while a "new professional flight sim" arrives which is flightgear renamed and with high price tag.08:51
artemmacoderus: okay, so you see a possible paid TG app as making something open source proprietory. I disagree, but understand, thanks08:51
lbtcos-: yep - that's where you need the store to be working with you08:52
sharpnelicos-: What about the graphical assets? Those are under gpl too?08:53
cos-sharpneli: afaik yes08:53
locusfbut what if the app is released somewhere else than the store?08:53
sharpneliSeriously. If you don't want your app to have GPL then don't use GPL libs. Write your own.08:53
artemmalocusf: that we can ignore. I don't think any noticeable amount of people will go out of app store for a $2 app08:53
lbtlocusf: realistically the store is the primary distribution08:54
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lbtlocusf: but equally there's a kinda moral responsibility which other channels may or may not subscribe to08:54
locusfartemma: lbt: okay08:55
lbtlocusf: this is all opinion and proposal; and fwiw this is something I was thinking about (and discussed) with Intel AppStore08:56
lbt(that's why I have some fairly solid ideas)08:56
sharpnelilbt: What about an app that looks like a clone but is a reimplementation?08:57
lbtsharpneli: this is for GPL stuff so the src is available08:57
lbtI'd expect that nowadays git history would establish credibility without ambiguity08:58
lbtnot that it's mandatory -but it would be a slam-dunk answer if you had it08:58
locusfsharpneli: you mean like learning about the sources amd doing your own?08:58
lbtyeah - that's just competition :)08:58
sharpnelilocusf: Or just doing your own. Most of the apps are rather trivial in anycase.08:59
* artemma learns a lot from open source and morally feels like I have an obligation for helping ppl learning back. That is why I am always into talking about whichever tricks I used in the app (without sharing code) and into creating easy-to-consume completely open demo projects. But that's about the learning community, not about doing everything with zero monetization09:08
Accecos-: maybe this will come to sailfish eventually:
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M4rtinKWell I just release everything under GPL :)09:12
M4rtinKIt is not like one could make any real mone on mobile apps anyway :)09:13
M4rtinKmostly it feel just like a barrier between your application and users09:13
artemmaM4rtinK: I do hope to make a bit. My N9 apps started flying and brining a bit of money before Elop killed the platform09:14
M4rtinKand by your cide being GPL you can use all the existing GPL code09:14
artemmaand I do some apps as a day job (managing mostly, but quite successful apps)09:14
M4rtinKso no reimplemnting the wheel over and over again09:15
artemmayes, GPL libs tease you with opportuniites :) And I don't mind surrendering as long as I understand monetization angle09:15
M4rtinKwell, even the code I write at work is GPL :D09:19
Hurrianartemma: if you want to use a GPL library with a non-GPL program, you could do like nVidia does :P09:19
artemmaHurrian: I don't know about it09:20
M4rtinKbut sure, that is not usually the norm :)09:20
* artemma is a newbie in a free software world09:20
Hurrianmake an (open) shim that can link against whatever Telegram library is available for Sailfish, then pass messages to the GUI via sockets/shm/whatever09:21
Hurrianyour proprietary, shiny GUI would not link against the GPL'd Telegram library, which means you don't violate it ;)09:22
Hurrianthat's what nVidia does with their proprietary GPU drivers, a GPL kernel module that passes data to a closed blob09:23
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Hurriangiven, the above is a massive kludge, but it's the only option if you want to build a closed app09:32
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ruskieHurrian, well not the only option09:41
ruskieHurrian, can always write own closed lib09:41
ruskieeven sell it09:41
Hurrianruskie: with every other Telegram library being GPL'd, it might be a challenge convincing others that it was made clean-room09:42
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sharpneliartemma: take the unofficial CLI app for telegram and make a closed QT app that uses it on background ;D09:44
tantyyeah, basically, provide a DBus interface between the UI and the CLI09:44
tantyand you are good to go09:44
artemmaisn't it sorta against GPL if the only reason for DBUS is for communicating with the lib?09:45
tantywell, it is kind of against the GPL to get to this tricks09:45
tantyyou better GPL you code, IMHO09:45
tantybut, no, I don't see how that would be against the GPL09:45
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artemma".. and the semantics of the communication (what kinds of information are interchanged)."09:46
artemma"But if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger program."09:46
* artemma isn't into violating license spirit as well, not just the letter09:47
fzkgpl really doesnt like other licenses :(09:47
tantyartemma: good point, I was not aware of that clause09:48
sharpneliartemma: If you want to follow the spirit then it's allright to make a closed messaging app which communicates with generic plugins. And then just make the Telegram plugin under GPL09:48
artemmawell, if using GPL lib in a non-GPL app is impossible, that's okay. We just need to figure out a biz model for GPL code or create a non-GPL lib. For both ways it would be great to find interested partner. I don't think I could pull it alone09:48
sharpneliAs a bonus someone might develop an IRC plugin for your app then09:48
tantyyes, but then, I suppose you should just use Telepathy09:48
tantyjust saying ...09:48
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artemmasharpneli: yeah, an architecture open for plugins could sounds clear enough for me. Could work well e.g. for coderus, who already has good UI for whatsapp09:49
tantyso you could create a closed source app using Telepathy09:49
artemmatanty: pluggin into Jolla own messaging app (via Telepathy?) sounds good and convenient. Can't see much biz there, but would be a great free project for somebody09:50
tantyyes, I understand you09:50
tantyunless you can provide a better UI09:50
tantythan the one provided by Jolla09:50
tantyusing their own Telepathy FW09:50
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stephgsim registration should work on the n4 right?09:57
Stskeepsbut note warnings in my mail09:58
stephglet me reboot it again then09:58
stephgStskeeps, but my hair is important to me ;)09:58
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stephgah there we go10:03
Stskeepsit works after reboot fwiw, not hotswap, afaik10:04
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stephgI forgot to turn it off on insert, and didn't see it after that reboot, but then did on the one after that10:04
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stephgso here's an odd one10:26
stephgI have two apps open on the cover screen, settings and mail10:27
stephgam on 3g but fwiw usbnet is also on10:27
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stephgthe refresh cover action on the email will cause a cover change in the settings app10:27
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stephgfrom the normal (no action cover) to the one with a big circle at the top and a X cover action right, two arrows cover action left10:28
stephgdoes it without usbnet fwiw10:29
stephgonce the sync is done the cover on settings changes back10:29
roboroI'm trying to play a radio stream in a mediaplayer element... the metadata changes for each track... is there some way I can update a text title based on the metadata changes?10:29
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roborothe SDK suggests that onMetadataChanged is available as a method... but when I use it... I get a non-existant property10:30
tommaroboro, property binding10:30
* roboro googles :)10:31
tommaText{text: audioElement.metaData.title}10:31
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roborommm I did that... but the text doesn't seem to update10:31
Stskeepsstephg: there's a weird libhybris bug related to that10:31
Stskeepsit was that or GPU pagefaults for that release10:31
leszekroboro: I don't think the metaData.title is changed when only one track is played back10:32
stephgStskeeps, cool, is known then10:32
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leszekroboro: at least I have the exact same issue on my video player implementation aswell. radio stream is playing fine and metadata if ever is obtained won't change when music changes on the radio10:33
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stephgone other anecdotal thing, with 3g on the phone is getting hot10:33
coderuscan i make qmldebugger work in qt creator or locally?10:33
stephgI thought it'd be the battery but the battery is at the bottom and it's getting hot near the camera10:34
roboroleszek: yeah... this is the problem... I have a radio stream that changes metadata for each track but since the mediaplayer only sees one source... it doesn't update10:34
coderusi really want to debug my superbig list delegate10:34
roboroleszek: did you ever work out a solution?10:34
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leszekroboro: nope as it seems to be an issue with qt5.1 and I didn't want to mess fixing it and recompile it10:34
coderusroboro: did you tried onMetaDataChanged signal?10:34
roborocoderus: yeah... I get non-existent property when I use that10:35
roboroapparently that's not a signal according to the qtmultimedia 5 spec10:35
leszekroboro: exactly that signal seems not to exists10:35
roboroits a bugger10:36
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roboroits weird though... the SDK prompts that signal inside a mediaplayer element... so its lurking somewhere10:40
leszekroboro: the only other possible way would be using a c++ function to obtain the correct metadata and push it to your qml files. If I find such a solution you will see it first in my videoPlayer (LLs videoPlayer)10:40
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roboroheh... leszek, I'm constantly looking over your code to see if you've found solutions for things :D10:41
coderuswell, if you just output title with some timed, would it change?10:41
roborocoderus: I haven't tried that yet... need to write up some code to do the refresh10:42
leszekcoderus: the problem is the metadata.title isn't changed at all in qt5.1. Only when you change the whole track url10:42
coderusleszek: pkay. qt bug then10:42
leszekat least this is my experience so far10:42
leszekcoderus: exactly10:42
coderusand we cant do anything :)10:42
leszekbesides using something else to obtain the metadata10:43
roboroexcept write a new library10:43
leszekroboro: I never tested the metadata obtaining procedures in c++ qt5. Maybe they aren't buggy :P10:44
roborobeing a C++ novice... I try to avoid writing anything in C++10:44
roboroI know that's bad... and the only way I will improve is to actually dive in10:45
roborobut time is limited10:45
roboroI have a real job after all :D10:45
leszekyeah c++ can be a pain in the butt. But at least I can tell you the qt implementation is the best / easiest I've seen so far10:45
roboroalso I like writing in straight qml and javascript... it encourages other people to consider writing applications if they can see your source just lurking there... you don't have to be a whizz programmer to make an app10:46
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roboroleszek: yeah... I've looked over a fair bit of code already and it looks friendly enough... I'm just not very confident10:47
Nicd-the best thing about Python + Qt software on the N900 was that I could fix bugs myself if I found them :)10:47
Nicd-having access to the Python sources straight on the device10:47
roboroNicd-: yeah... python rocks10:47
roboroyou can do a fair bit using thp's pyotherside library10:47
roboroI've already used it for one app10:48
roborookay... more just to do a few quick file writes etc... but the library looks pretty extensive10:49
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leszekyeah Nicd- the same goes for qml files and js files :) Well I have an old pre3 here and literally reprogrammed the camera app to have double the features it had on the stock system. Just because the whole app was written in javascript :P10:49
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coderusqml debugging. please help.10:50
roborosorry coderus... don't know the answer to your question10:52
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TheBootroo_workwho is in charge of Harbour QA .11:01
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TheBootroo_worki have 3 apps awaiting QA11:11
TheBootroo_workand for one, i pushed another update, but it's blocked11:12
coderusnobody is really debugging QML?11:12
Aardiekku: ^^11:12
TheBootroo_workthat's stupid because when app will finally be approved, it's be outdated11:12
TheBootroo_worki should be able to un-QA the first one and resubmit11:12
TheBootroo_workbecause first package had an issue11:13
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cos-TheBootroo_work: i believe they have humans working there and they may notice the newer version11:14
TheBootroo_workcos, well i hope11:14
gabriel9|workThat's it, i give up. I can'f fix Audio to use ICY meta tags11:15
TheBootroo_workelse i'll have to wait days before old versions is approved, and then other days for new one11:15
TheBootroo_workdata displayed in harbour dashboard are still not linked with real store ?11:16
TheBootroo_worklikes, comments etc11:16
TheBootroo_workdownload count11:16
TheBootroo_workstill 0 everywhere11:17
TheBootroo_workquite sad11:17
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Nicd-coderus: the only thing I've heard over and over again is that qml debugging is broken :/11:21
cos-it's broken.11:21
cos-i have seen it working once last year, but usually it's broken11:22
thpTheBootroo_work: what are the names of the apps that are waiting in QA?11:22
Nicd-TheBootroo_work: thanks for the bible app :)11:22
TheBootroo_workthp: CityBike'me, Feed'me, Bible'me11:22
TheBootroo_workNicd-: you're welcome11:23
TheBootroo_worki'm fixing issue on it atm11:23
TheBootroo_worki got rejected few seconds ago11:23
TheBootroo_worki have some bugs to fix before pushing real update11:23
TheBootroo_workNicd-: i worked hard to speed up app loading, and search engine11:23
TheBootroo_workand polished ui a lot11:23
Nicd-sounds good :)11:24
Nicd-what's your source for the translations?11:24
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thpTheBootroo_work: so now that they are rejected, that case if fixed for now, or are some still waiting in queue?11:30
TheBootroo_workthp: two other waiting in queue11:30
TheBootroo_workoh wait11:31
TheBootroo_workone remaining11:31
TheBootroo_workother went approved11:31
Nicd-TheBootroo_work: thanks, I might make a pull request to fix the naming of the finnish version11:34
TheBootroo_workyeah maybe11:34
Nicd-and maybe add an older finnish translation (the newest one is sadly under copyright)11:34
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fzkNicd-: you should add something fun like linus torvalds types on lkml sometimes ;-)11:37
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Yanielthe bible written like linus would have posted it on lkml? hell yes :D11:41
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thpTheBootroo_work: the remaining one is currently being QA'd as we speak i'm told11:42
fzklatest classic is "perkelnen vittupää" when he was out of english swear words11:42
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fzkisnt it short?11:42
Nicd-it's perkeleen11:43
fzki c11:43
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fzkmy grammar is bad11:43
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Nicd-well, Finnish is funny11:45
fzkcan be that the dialect in northern parts differs so much in spoken language11:45
Nicd-can't think of any dialect where it would be that short11:47
YanielI'm pretty sure it only gets longer if you go north11:47
Nicd-but maybe it's just bias I have because I already know how it should be spelled :P might be that it sounds short to a non-native speaker11:47
fzkfor an example we usually say "olen tappaamassa kaveria", it sounds odd though11:47
fzki live in .se but from raahe11:48
Nicd-nobody says "olen" :D11:48
jussiIf you go to certain areas north of helsinki they add letters in the middle :D11:48
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fzkjussi: example :-D11:49
jussiparticularly in Oulu11:49
jussiwhere I did happen to live for 7.5 years11:49
fzkoulu is nice11:49
artemmacoderus: I remember seeing statements that Jolla wants to make QML debugging possible. No indication about timeline for it though. Maybe upcoming SDK update11:49
jussifzk: here is a perfect example - it is my birthday today, and one of my oulu friends wrote on my FB: PALIJON ONNEA!11:54
cos-fixing it is probably digia's task11:54
fzkjussi: ha, that is indeed how it is pronounced11:55
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* jussi goes back to listening to 90's classics and feeling old11:55
fzkjussi: know of any odd dialects of finnish? if you know swedish närpiö has the most odd dialect for swedish11:55
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jussifzk: not really, Im not a native so I havent that much experience11:56
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Yanielsavo is probably genereally considered the weirdest finnish dialect12:00
jussiYaniel: actually, I have to agree with you there12:02
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coderusNicd-: broken at all or broken in qtcreator?12:04
Nicd-coderus: I don't know anything more, sorry12:04
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fzkjussi: that was pretty interesting12:09
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RenokKGood day! How are you guys  doing?12:16
Stskeepsgood thanks12:16
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coderusCan i publish my application which uses dbus services to Harbour if i publish sources to obs?13:01
coderusw00t: Stskeeps ^^13:02
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TheBootroo_workthat's it13:02
TheBootroo_workfixed my two apps in queue13:02
TheBootroo_workone was just version number too small13:02
TheBootroo_workthe other had a few bugs, which i fixed13:02
TheBootroo_workboth are back into QA wait13:03
TheBootroo_workmaybe updates will finally be available later today13:03
gabriel9|workis there a way to detect metadataChanges in Audio qml element13:03
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coderusgabriel9|work: does it really updates if you get data with timer?13:04
gabriel9|workwut? In bash with mg123 i can see ICY-META: StreamTitle='Some title'13:05
gabriel9|workbut is it a way to detect that in qml using Audio13:06
coderusmetadata in qml mediaplayer seems broken13:06
gabriel9|work3 days i bust my head with this Audio stream junk13:06
coderuswe're just discussed it couple hours ago13:06
w00tcoderus: contact developer-care@jolla.com13:06
coderusw00t: ok, thanks13:07
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TheBootroo_workthp: one of my three apps got accepted, two others refused13:09
TheBootroo_worki fixed the pointed issues13:09
TheBootroo_workand submitted again13:09
TheBootroo_workcrossing fingers now13:10
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coderussend message to developer-care. will see how long it takes to get first responce on this email :)13:13
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kempeis it anyway to prevent loss of fucus from textinput when using model.insert()?13:13
coderuskempe: currentIndex: -113:13
coderuskempe: to listview13:14
TheBootroo_workNicd-: did you already submitted patch to OSIS bible github repos ?13:14
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kempecorne, nice that was easy :P13:16
kempecoderus, , nice that was easy :P*13:16
Nicd-TheBootroo_work: no, I'm not that fast :) give me a few days13:16
iekkuTheBootroo_work, oh? native apps?13:17
TheBootroo_workiekku: yep13:17
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iekkuTheBootroo_work, weird, last time i checked there was only 2 apps in queu13:18
TheBootroo_workiekku: btw, when will the metadata about apps be linked to store ? (the counters for downloads, likes and reviews)13:18
coderuskempe: ;)13:19
iekkuTheBootroo_work, hopefully soon.13:19
TheBootroo_workiekku: now they are 213:19
TheBootroo_worki'm quite fast at updating13:19
TheBootroo_worki submitted 313:19
iekkuTheBootroo_work, when did you submit those?13:19
coderusiekku: Stskeeps mentioned you about qml debugging?13:19
TheBootroo_workone got accepted, 2 rejected, but submitted again, and waiting now13:19
iekkuah, today13:20
iekkucan't promise those are retested before monday13:20
iekkuwe don't have anyone working in harbour qa during weekends13:21
TheBootroo_workat least feed-me could be accepted13:21
coderusiekku: you need to hire somebody :)13:21
TheBootroo_workbecause only issue was  version number13:21
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TheBootroo_workand Bible'me got accepted yesterday but new release this morning got rejected because of 3 bugs, which i fixed quite fast13:22
TheBootroo_workso re-test should not be too long13:22
iekkucoderus, due finnish working laws it's damn expensive to force people working on weekends13:22
TheBootroo_workhopefully, people will get new version of Bible for this sunday13:22
TheBootroo_workcause the old one is slow as hell13:22
TheBootroo_worki totally rewriten the core part to boost perfs13:23
TheBootroo_workand polished some ui details13:23
HartziTheBootroo_work: nice app btw. Did you port it from somewhere or did you code it all yourself?13:23
TheBootroo_workHartzi: did it from scratch13:23
TheBootroo_workstarted wednesday13:23
TheBootroo_workimplemented the OSIS XML standard13:24
HartziYou didn't want to port N9 version of miniBible? It was really good.13:24
coderusiekku: no enthusiasts? :)13:24
iekkubtw, sorry that i haven't been here for a while, had long sick leave and had to stay away from work related channels to keep myself away from work13:24
TheBootroo_workHartzi: too much code, and libsword is PITA to port on sailfish13:25
TheBootroo_workwas simpler to me to create a new engine directly in full Qt13:25
TheBootroo_worktailored specially for a Qt based OS13:25
TheBootroo_worklibsword has awful api13:25
TheBootroo_workand it's not even nearly as fast as my new engine13:26
coderusiekku: so, can you help me with qmldebugger?13:26
TheBootroo_workthe one in QA queue13:26
TheBootroo_workand i didn't unlocked all the power of it, it's just a start13:26
Nicd-pita kebab13:26
TheBootroo_workHartzi: Pain In The Ass13:26
TheBootroo_workhard to compile (CMake and all), hard API, too many conversions between Qt and non-Qt types etc13:27
HartziTheBootroo_work: what's your source for scriptures?13:27
TheBootroo_workmy new engine is ~40kiB of full Qt code13:27
iekkucoderus, if you need technical help, i can try to find help, but unfortunately can't provide it by myself13:27
TheBootroo_worka GitHub project named osis-bible13:27
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Hartzitoo bad that it doesn't have as many scriptures as the sword :/13:28
Hartzionly one finnish translation there13:28
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TheBootroo_workyeah maybe but new ones will surely be added13:29
TheBootroo_workOSIS is the new standard for scripture13:29
TheBootroo_worksword supports it too now13:29
coderusiekku: well, first of all as qmldebugger not working from qtcreator, qi'm trying to find a way to debug QML locally, even compiled debug build with qml_debug enabled, started it with listening port, but havent succeed in connecting remote qmldebugger to phone13:29
TheBootroo_workmaybe some sword bibles can be converted to OSIS13:29
TheBootroo_workOSIS format is REALLY simple13:29
HartziTheBootroo_work: hopefully yes13:30
Nicd-I could try converting the Finnish Biblia to OSIS format and adding it to the repo13:30
Nicd-if I can find a converter13:30
TheBootroo_workhere is finnish one to see
TheBootroo_workas you can see, quite simple formatting13:30
TheBootroo_workonly thing is that you'll need to respect OSIS reference ID notation13:30
TheBootroo_worklike    John.3.16,  Ps.23.113:30
TheBootroo_workbooks, chapters and verses have IDs13:31
TheBootroo_workbut not that hard13:31
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Morpog_PCSfietKonstantin, on the patch or where?13:31
iekkucoderus, pinged one sailor about that13:32
SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: aah, on the patch looks good13:32
SfietKonstantinjust a very small + and -13:33
SfietKonstantinnot too big13:33
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SfietKonstantinand about the bg color, I don't know if it is the best or not13:33
TheBootroo_workHartzi, Nicd- : when the new release comes to you phone you'll be pleased to see that it's really fast and fluid now13:33
iekkuSfietKonstantin, o//13:33
SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: (I was thinking about something more plain, like grey or white, just like sailfish icon)13:33
Nicd-I'm eagerly waiting TheBootroo_work :)13:33
SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: what do you think ?13:33
SfietKonstantiniekku: o/13:33
SfietKonstantiniekku: how are you ? it has been a long time !13:34
Nicd-TheBootroo_work: if you have an IBAN account, maybe I can send you a few euros as thanks for the app13:34
coderusiekku: thanks. ping me please if any luck13:34
TheBootroo_worki should be able to find tht13:34
iekkuSfietKonstantin, better now13:34
SfietKonstantiniekku: aah, this is relieving13:35
Morpog_PCSfietKonstantin, like the components icon?13:37
Morpog_PCah default icon13:37
SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: I don't know13:37
SfietKonstantinyou are the designer13:37
SfietKonstantinI just tell about what I'm thinking, however, if you feel that something else works better :)13:37
SfietKonstantinespecially about + and -13:37
SfietKonstantinand I love the crack on the icon :)13:37
Morpog_PCand you're the customer, lol ;)13:37
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SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: customers are usually dumb kings13:42
SfietKonstantinthey are kings, but have silly ideas13:42
Morpog_PChmm, gray doesnÄt fit that well with the crack13:43
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SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: ah :(13:44
SfietKonstantinthen a lighter blue ?13:44
TheBootroo_workSfietKonstantin: are you redesigning 'Friends' icon ?13:45
SfietKonstantinTheBootroo_work: nope, patchmanager13:45
SfietKonstantinmaybe putting the crack in a darker color ?13:49
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SfietKonstantinand just the shape13:49
SfietKonstantinlooks good :)13:49
SfietKonstantinthanks a lot13:49
Morpog_PCa bit daker gray should do it I guess13:50
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TheBootroo_worklooks good indeed13:58
* TheBootroo_work thinks he could submit the new icons here for advice13:59
TheBootroo_workhere is the new icon for Feed'me   (awaiting QA)13:59
TheBootroo_workhere is Bible'me icon
TheBootroo_workand good old CityBike'me, simply removed outline to match better Jolla icons :
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TheBootroo_workMorpog_PC: you are professional designer ?14:03
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Morpog_PCTheBootroo_work, nope, just a hobby14:06
TheBootroo_workoh ok, just like me in fact14:06
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Morpog_PCi like the bible one much14:07
TheBootroo_workprofessional dev, designer as a hobby14:07
TheBootroo_workMorpog_PC: yeah was quite to give 3D effect to the book without breaking jolla icon shape14:07
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Morpog_PCSfietKonstantin, I made it a real crack now, so crack color depends on background wallpaper :D14:42
SfietKonstantinMorpog_PC: :D14:42
SfietKonstantinserious ? :D14:42
Morpog_PCsure :D14:44
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Morpog_PCand as usual it's in SVG:
TheBootroo_workMorpog_PC: IMHO, the green color of the plus is not dark enough, lacks contrast with patch14:49
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Morpog_PCtrue, will change it asap14:50
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TheBootroo_workgradient should be bright atop and dark at bottom14:52
TheBootroo_workelse it will look weird beside others icons14:52
coderususe TEXT or BLOB?14:52
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Morpog_PCSfietKonstantin, :D14:54
SfietKonstantinlooking good14:56
TheBootroo_workDAT CRACK ^^14:58
Morpog_PCsfiet, did the gradient change bootroo suggested, will upload latest version again :D14:59
TheBootroo_workalso if yoy at my edit, i strongly darkened green and red colors14:59
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TheBootroo_workso they are more legible14:59
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Morpog_PCok, done, same link should still work I guess15:00
Morpog_PCTheBootroo_work, I like it subtle15:01
TheBootroo_workoh ok15:01
Morpog_PCthe patch itself is distracting enough :D15:01
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TheBootroo_workbut only be carefull that on little size, subtle things are not even visible15:02
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admiral0Morpog_PC: Dat Icon :Q15:10
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Morpog_PCI'm sure lot of people will hate it :)15:12
Morpog_PCjust like my cargo dock icon :D15:12
Sir_herrbatkaMorpog_PC: i don't think that this metaphor would be easily understood by users15:12
Morpog_PCSir_herrbatka, every user that uses this app should hopefully understand it15:13
Sir_herrbatkatrue that15:13
Morpog_PCit also shows some dangerto those who don't15:14
Sir_herrbatka"this app will eat your hamster"15:14
TheBootroo_work.... kill poort little kittehs15:16
TheBootroo_work.... blow your house15:16
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TheBootroo_work... and the shadow of lucky luke will haunt you for the next 99 years15:17
Accemaniacs on the loose!15:17
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TheBootroo_workwell, 'im in weekend now15:19
TheBootroo_workseems my 2 remaining updates in QA won't be approved this week15:20
Morpog_PCHire as SW tester at Jolla and then instantly approve your own apps
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StskeepsA kickoff meeting about SailfishOS, open source, collaboration, way forward  -
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iekkumy irssi doesn't have like/favorite button :/16:09
Stskeepsit's called "+1"16:09
sharpneliRelatively epic. It seems systemd parses /proc/cmdline and breaks stuff up if you issue the debug flag to kernel16:10
MerbotFreedesktop bug 76935 in general "Do not parse "debug" command line parameter" [Normal,Reopened]16:10
sharpneliAnd systemd maintainers say that it's the kernels fault and they don't own generic terms. Which are given to the kernel as parameters :D16:10
Stskeepssharpneli: meanwhile, microsoft open sources their compiler and the apollo 11 navigation computer is too ..16:11
Stskeepswhile we're fighting over words16:11
sharpneliYeah. The world is going insane16:11
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Stskeepshello hello16:12
sharpneliBut I have to wonder about the guts on the systemd guys. /proc/cmdline is provided as a convenience feature to see what parameters were given to the kernel. And then they have the balls to tie their own debugging to those parameters and then demanding that kernel changes how it works just so they could use that term :D16:12
iekkuStskeeps, :)16:17
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Almindoris there a way to know when a contextmenu was closed? (regardless of action taken in the menu items)16:22
AlmindorI need to do something when the menu closes no matter if the user actually selected an item16:22
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Almindoroh there's onClosed..16:29
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Almindorhow can you display a notification on the top?16:30
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locusfkaltsi: precarious ping16:53
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kaltsilocusf: hi.. off duty already, but wot's up? :)17:28
kaltsiwhat's your host?17:29
kaltsithis doesn't look too good:17:30
kaltsior are you really building it intentionally in a folder named -confirm-license ?17:30
locusfI dunno, the make install put it there17:30
kaltsiI think your configure line is somehow broken17:31
kaltsiit's one of the configure options17:31
locusfsince -confirm-license is one17:31
kaltsibut I'd start from there.. recheck your configure line.. or paste it here17:31
locusfcomplete make clean might be good too17:32
kaltsiand that's the qt configure line17:32
locusfhow do I figure out the current configure line?17:32
kaltsiit's in a file called config.cache or something17:33
kaltsino.. config.status in the directory where you built qt17:33
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locusf/home/locusf/qt/configure -developer-build -static -accessibility -qt-zlib -qt-libtiff -qt-libpng -qt-libmng -qt-libjpeg -no-phonon -no-dbus -no-opengl -no-qt3support -no-webkit -no-xmlpatterns -no-svg -nomake examples -nomake demos -prefix /home/locusf/qt -confirm-license "$@"17:34
locusfah pastebin might have been better17:34
locusfmake install installs to -confirm-license17:34
locusfwhich is stupid17:34
kaltsiI think it interprets the -confirm-license as a part of the -prefix17:34
kaltsiyou should move the -prefix option to be the last in your configure line17:34
kaltsiI added rext to the readme file in build tools repo today.. and latest scripts too17:35
locusfmassive updates, will prolly update my scripts17:36
kaltsiwhat's your host machine btw? which linux distro and version?17:36
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locusfUbuntu 13.1017:37
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locusfkaltsi: got forward, but more errors now in linking18:36
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locusfkaltsi: will rebuild qt again, it was because of the distributed libs18:41
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* Stskeeps yawns18:57
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kimmoliStskeeps: contagious..19:16
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jake9xx_locusf: when compiling qt (4 or 5) I *strongly* recommned shadow building19:34
jake9xx_then you don't need to mess around them sources19:35
locusfjake9xx_: okay19:35
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jake9xx_and before compiling, make sure you don't have $QTDIR already set19:36
locusfI already moved on to hack around in glacier-home19:38
locusfgot tired of the qt errors I got while compiling with Qt sources I somehow broke19:38
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jake9xx_broken sources -> git clean -xdf and git reset --hard HEAD19:39
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kaltsilocusf: if you are willing to try the ready made scripts: "mkdir $HOME/invariant" and have qt4 sources there in a directory called 'qt' .. then just run the and it will build it for you.. if that doesn't work then there's some build requirement might be missing from your host19:41
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locusfkaltsi: ok, will try19:42
kaltsiif you do --help, it will tell you which directories it needs19:43
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locusfwhat about buildqtc?19:43
kaltsithat's after you have built qt19:44
kaltsiit also has a help option and will fail if it doesn't find what it needs19:44
locusfis static build needed?19:44
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kaltsinot if you just want to build qtc19:45
kaltsiit's needed to build the installer framework.. it's all in the readme and script comments19:45
locusf-j8 in use, nice19:47
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kaltsithe scripts use getconf to get the number of cpu's19:48
kaltsiit's nifty: getconf _NPROCESSORS_ONLN  => works anywhere(?) with glibc19:49
jake9xx_locusf: are you building qtc or something which needs to be compiled with static qt?19:49
jake9xx_we don't run currently qt5 as static19:49
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locusfjake9xx_: yes building qtc, just forgot the static on19:50
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locusfI was interested to build the installer framework too, to fork for Nemomobile usage :)19:51
jake9xx_those have two parts19:52
jake9xx_the OSS (being ife from gitorious) and the NON-OSS which is at our internal git atm19:53
jake9xx_but you don't need to fork anything like that19:53
jake9xx_what you need is a nemomobile target, install it into sdk and you're set19:53
jake9xx_our qtc and sdk-vm are totally capable of running on differnet platforms. You "just" need to tweak the ssu a bit and off you go19:54
kaltsilocusf, the installer framework is just the framework required to build installer applications.. the actual installer application sources are not public19:55
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jake9xx_best approach would be to edit /usr/share/ssu/repos.ini in mersdk vm and create a domain like 'nemomobile' which has the repos you need to run19:55
locusfSfietKonstantin: does this trouble us in any way?19:55
locusfSfietKonstantin: installer sources not being available?19:56
jake9xx_when ssu domain <your 31337-domain> ; ssu lr lists only the right stuff you're good to go19:56
locusfjake9xx_: ok19:57
kaltsilocusf: you'll need to write suitable installer scripts that then build an installer application.. something like this
Stskeeps may be relevant19:57
jake9xx_or course tht needs to be working in in all components (sdk-vm, sysroot(build target) and possibly emu19:57
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jake9xx_Stskeeps: yes, that kinda outlines it19:58
locusfkaltsi: okay, thanks for taht20:00
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locusfsleepytimes now, thanks for all the help guys :)20:04
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taixzoHi, I have a problem. I changed one line of my QML, and now my app is a blank white screen; and I changed it back and it's still a blank white screen. How do I fix this?20:20
merlin1991taixzo: did you try running it via ssh/console and checking the errors?20:21
merlin1991your description could fit about 20k errors20:21
taixzomerlin1991: How do I do that?20:21
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merlin1991uhm how do you deploy your application?20:22
taixzothe output in qtcreator is "Connecting to device... Remote application finished with exit code 0."20:22
merlin1991I guess you have developer mode enabled already? so what os is your pc?20:22
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taixzoPC is linux (elementary OS). I'm running it in the emulator for now.20:23
taixzoI assume emulator has developer mode enabled by default?20:24
merlin1991ah so you're not actually deploying to the device?20:24
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merlin1991okay in that case contains the info how to connect to the emulator via ssh20:29
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taixzocomputer crashed, and I think I figured out my problem20:31
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taixzoI accidentally put "margins: Theme.paddingLarge" outside of an anchors {} block20:34
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taixzowhich strangely enough produced no errors in qtcreator, I had to use fingerterm to see the error20:35
kaltsitaixzo, do you ever see any application output in qtcreator?20:35
taixzokaltsi: yes, currently " Unable to open input file: No such file or directory"20:36
kaltsiok, just wondering if you had the latest published sdk update installed (there was an update to just qtcreator back in December to fix some logging issues)20:37
taixzoMine says "Built on Dec 11 2013"20:38
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kaltsiif qt creator doesn't offer you any updates when you start it, then it's the latest20:39
kaltsiI think the latest should have been built on Dec 16, if I'm not entirely mistaken.. can anyone confirm? I don't have it here myself now.20:41
kaltsihere's the update mail which was published on Dec 17
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taixzook, now my issue is I have a SilicaListView inside a Column inside a SilicaFlickable. I want to have a scrollable list of items, with a text input that doesn't move with them (think chat client); but I can't figure out how to make the SilicaListView show more than one Item without overrunning the text input.20:46
taixzoIs there something I should be doing with anchors to make it work?20:47
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taixzoHere's what I have currently:
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merlin1991taixzo: in my expirience putting scrollable silica components into other scrollable silica components is a way to have nothing working at all20:51
taixzook, how should I have it set up then?20:51
specialtaixzo: it's also more common in silica UI to scroll the entire page's content; e.g. this is how the official Messages client works20:51
specialif you need it, consider instead of your inner SilicaListView20:52
specialbut it's not really meant to scale to huge models20:52
taixzowhat is the difference?20:53
taixzoCan silicalistview scroll on its own?20:53
specialit does, yes20:53
specialand putting a scrollable item inside another scrollable item gets complicated.20:53
specialyou could also remove your SilicaFlickable, but then you're not going to be able to use pulley menus on that page.20:54
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merlin1991essentially when you have a scrollable inside a scrollable you should try to move  that to another page if possible20:55
merlin1991I've ran into the situation where I needed it otherwise but it's bad for the user experience in the end20:55
taixzospecial: I don't think I need a pulley menu20:56
merlin1991because the inner scrollable has weird scrolling properites20:56
specialColumnView solves a lot of those cases.20:56
taixzothe only other thing I'd have is a settings page, and I was thinking thatwould just be a swipe to access.20:56
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taixzoI made the silicalistview as tall as the parent, but it isn't scrolling.21:00
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taixzowhat I have now:
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specialtaixzo: get rid of Column and use anchors for TextField and SilicaListView21:14
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specialyour list view has no height, and it's nonintuitive to give it the right one inside of a column21:15
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taixzowhat do I give it for height? Is there some property that lets me say "big enough to fit the content"?21:16
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