Tuesday, 2014-04-15

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artemmaERROR [/usr/share/harbour-dailyambience/lib/harbour/dailyambience/QtDocGallery/libdocgalleryplugin.so] Cannot link to shared library: libQt5DocGallery.so.500:15
artemmaWhat does this mean?00:15
artemmahow come I cannot link to the library I ship myself?00:15
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artemmaah, sorry, it looks like so.5 is missing00:16
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artemmadoh, we are not allowed to use even libicudata.so from the system. That's 14MB to bundle with the app..00:41
artemmathough it compresses well, still just 4MB whole RPM00:46
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cos-weird. i have 2 fb events that have wrong dates08:09
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cos-looks like the end date is one month too late on device08:09
cos-is this a known issue?08:10
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chriadamcos-: thanks for the report.  could be a JavaScript to Qt conversion issue.  JS dates use zero-based months iirc08:28
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chriadami'll look into it08:28
cos-chriadam: thanks.08:28
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cos-i unsubscribed the events in fb, but they are still haunting the phone calendar. is there a way to force resync of calendar?08:29
chriadamopen the account in the settings ui and save it again (no need to change anything).  should force a resync.08:29
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cos-nope, they are still there. i'll try rebooting.08:32
chriadamdo you have developer mode enabled?08:33
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chriadamcan you try something for me?08:33
chriadamthanks.  open two ssh terminals, in one of them do:08:33
cos-the events are still there after reboot08:33
chriadamsystemctl --user stop msyncd.service08:34
chriadamps axu | grep msyncd08:34
chriadamkill -9 (msyncd pid)08:34
chriadamSOCIALD_LOGGING_LEVEL=3 devel-su -p msyncd08:34
chriadamthen, in teh other terminal, do:08:34
chriadamdbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.meego.msyncd /synchronizer com.meego.msyncd.startSync string:'facebook.Calendars'08:34
chriadamand send the logs to chris dot adams at jolla dot com08:35
chriadam(might want to redact the access token etc from the logs)08:35
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chriadamhrm, was that all?08:40
chriadamseems the sync adapter is getting stuck while processing the response to the events request08:40
cos-there was also SocialNetworkSyncAdaptor::decrementSemaphore:266 and SocialNetworkSyncAdaptor::setFinishedInactive:245 after i sent the mail08:41
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chriadamah ok, good08:43
chriadamthat means that it's not getting stuck in the request handling, at least08:43
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chriadamhrm, ok most likely this is because we don't handle the "declined" state of the event properly.  bug.08:45
cos-i'm on office wlan which should be working ok at the moment, so i doubt it's a networking issue08:45
dr_gogeta86good morning guys08:45
chriadamcos-: thanks for the info - I'll fix it tomorrow, hopefully.08:45
chriadamgmorning dr_gogeta8608:45
cos-chriadam: great, thanks!08:46
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cos-there is still something wrong with end dates of some events08:47
cos-i'll have to go to lunch first but i'll try to investigate it later08:47
chriadamcheers - any info would be helpful08:48
chriadambut I'm about to head home for the night (autz) - so if I don't respond on irc you know why ;-)08:48
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ottoNicd-: Hello!08:59
ottoNicd-: wrote a blog post about the trick now: http://seravo.fi/2014/optimal-sailfish-sdk-workflow-qml-auto-reloading09:00
Nicd-nice :)09:00
Nicd-ping Turski09:00
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locusfotto: good job09:08
Acceotto: cool, also waiting to hear from the OBS instructions post09:11
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ottolocusf Acce: thanks!09:23
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gabriel9|workis there update for sdk emulator09:41
gabriel9|workor we are stucked with
Nicd-an update is coming09:41
Nicd-pretty soon if I understood correctly09:41
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gabriel9|worki try to install this also09:46
gabriel9|workbut there is no package09:46
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Nicd-ask otto09:47
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gabriel9|workotto: ping09:50
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TurskiNicd-: pong10:16
TurskiNicd-: oh, nice10:17
Turskiand otto, nice10:17
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Turskiand bonus points for not needing qtcreator for that10:20
Turskior emulator10:21
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Turskigabriel9|work: 12:00:29 < otto> Nicd-: wrote a blog post about the trick now: http://seravo.fi/2014/optimal-sailfish-sdk-workflow-qml-auto-reloading10:22
Turskibeats 10-1 my hack :P10:23
gabriel9|workfor me this is not working10:25
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gabriel9|worki downloaded the package and installed with install-local10:55
gabriel9|workno error, but there is no entr installed :/10:55
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Turskigabriel9|work: well, that package contains /usr/bin/entr, so you are doing something wrong11:04
gabriel9|worki installed this one entr-2.6-10.1.1.jolla.armv7hl.rpm11:05
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gabriel9|workfor some reason pkcon install finishes but nothing is installed11:06
gabriel9|workpkcon install-local entr-2.6-10.1.1.jolla.armv7hl.rpm11:07
gabriel9|workas nemo user11:07
Turskii just enabled the repo11:07
gabriel9|workand it works for you?11:07
Turskii'll check the install-local method too...11:07
gabriel9|workmaybe my emulator is broken11:08
Turskioh, you're using emulator11:09
Turskididn't you notice that it's arm package?11:09
gabriel9|worki use archlinux11:10
gabriel9|workso, i dont think about that11:10
lbtexplains a lot11:10
Turskii just used device for testing11:10
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Turskigabriel9|work: well, you need to think about architecture on arch too11:10
Turskia bit11:10
gabriel9|workso is there a way yo install it on emulator>11:11
Turskigabriel9|work: you need to find the package somewhere11:12
gabriel9|workhow did he install it on emulator?11:12
gabriel9|workTo install Entr on a Sailfish OS emulator or device...11:12
Turskigabriel9|work: maybe he didn't :)11:12
Turskiotto: ping11:12
gabriel9|workfrom the blog post it is :D11:13
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Turskior maybe he didn't just release the x86 package anywhere11:14
Turskii like deploying my projects straight to device11:16
Turskiwhich i haven't been working on for a month...11:16
lbtgabriel9|work: hmm11:17
lbttbr: we need chum for emulator too - it's just rather old atm11:18
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Turskilbt: well, new sdk should be coming soon11:18
Turskii heard11:18
lbtand yeah, we have an x86 build of chum11:19
lbtsfos I mean11:19
tbrlbt: does anyone really care about emulator? last time I checked it was all stuck somewhere in october last year11:20
lbtnot me :)11:20
Turski1.0.5-based SDK should already be in in-house testing11:20
Turskithat was told four days ago, maybe we will see it some day11:21
lbttbr we should probably just make sure there's an x86 chum for when the community builds their own emulator using the releases repo11:22
lbtand I think that's my chum release script/cutnpaste which should add the target11:22
lbtand it *might* work on the emulator - especially if we copy SRs to chum:
lbtbut frankly I'd not waste community time promoting to anything other than testing for that11:23
gabriel9|worki wil try to install it on real device11:26
Turskithat's the way to go11:26
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tbrlbt: *nod*11:26
Turskitouch application testing with mouse sucks anyway11:26
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tbrlbt: we'll find out how jolla relates to chum in a couple of weeks I guess11:27
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lbtyep - not really discussed it yet11:28
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lbtand I don't really know what the emulator plans are11:29
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gabriel9|workinstalled it on device11:43
gabriel9|worktried to edit files with ssh and nano but no changes :D11:45
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roborogabriel9|work: there is your problem... nano? you should have used vi....11:48
gabriel9|workmust be some problem with permisions11:48
* roboro gets his coat11:48
gabriel9|worki use emacs11:48
gabriel9|worknot that satan editors :P11:48
fzkvi vs emacs flamewar plz11:48
fzklong time ago11:49
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gabriel9|workthis blog post needs some refavtoring11:49
gabriel9|worki mounted them on local fs, but i cant write on them11:50
roborommm just checked out that blog post... this is pretty useful if you can get it to work11:51
gabriel9|worki know11:51
gabriel9|worki'm trying to get it work11:51
gabriel9|workbut the pain :D11:51
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roboroits a real pain that a small qml change requires a whole new build and deployment11:52
gabriel9|workdon't try to run it in emulator11:52
gabriel9|workand also, i now have problems with permissions11:52
roboroI usually build and deploy... then ssh onto my phone and muck with the qml there until I am roughly happy with it and then copy the changes back into my project11:52
gabriel9|workall files under /usr/share/App are root11:52
gabriel9|workwhen you "muck" with qml are you root11:54
gabriel9|workor change file owner?11:55
fzkwould be fun to code some applications for sailfish hmm11:57
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roborogabriel9|work: I do it as root12:02
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gabriel9|worki have two apps to finish12:03
gabriel9|workHell Radio XD12:03
gabriel9|workand Srboskop12:03
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roboroHell Radio :D:D:D12:03
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gabriel9|workbut as you said, all thatbuild->deploy->test and again is pain12:04
gabriel9|workmost of the time i just build project :D12:04
roboroI've been working on a generic stream player... I want to ultimately rig it to have an alarm function... so that you can start playing a stream at a time etc12:04
roborodepends on how significant the changes are12:04
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roboroif something is just NOT working... then I keep rebuilding... but if its just tweaking layout or something... then I do that on the target host12:05
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roboroI guess if you like the editor... you could script this... you can just sftp or scp the qml files to the correct location on the host and then replay the app12:07
roboroyou could probably change the file permissions after the deployment, to make this a little easier while you are working12:09
dr_gogeta86sledges: are u here ?12:10
gabriel9|workroboro: i also work on stream player12:12
gabriel9|worktrying to add ICY meta tags12:12
roborommmm maybe we should collaborate a bit12:12
gabriel9|workbut i don't know how to read raw data from buffer12:13
gabriel9|worki am noob in C++12:13
roborommm I ran into similar issues12:13
gabriel9|workbut i know JS12:13
* roboro is also a noob in C++12:13
gabriel9|workif i make something i will let you know12:13
roboroleszek and I were chatting about updating tags in a stream... seems to be a qml bug12:14
roboroyou can get the initial tag...12:14
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gabriel9|worki tried to get streamTitle12:15
roborobut there used to be an onMetaDataChanged attribute... its gone12:15
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gabriel9|workthat was in api?12:15
roboroused to be12:15
gabriel9|worki searched something like that but no hope12:15
gabriel9|worki even read qmmp player source to figure how metadata is read12:16
m4g0gI want to send c++ struct to qml. How I can do it?12:17
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gabriel9|workstick to primitives12:17
gabriel9|workor you can create json string send it to qml, and then json parse in js12:17
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gabriel9|workan you have object :)12:17
goroborogabriel9|work: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qml-qtmultimedia-mediaplayer.html12:17
goroborothat's what I am using in my qml12:18
gabriel9|worki read all about it12:18
goroborothen you can just set title to metaData.albumTitle12:18
gabriel9|worki use Audio, which is in fact MediaPlayer12:18
goroborothat works for me... but doesn't change when the stream updates the metadata12:18
gabriel9|workthe only tag in hell radio is streamTitle12:18
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gabriel9|workyea, coding is hell12:19
Nicd-m4g0g: I sent a "struct" to QML by making a class of it and registering it with qmlRegisterType12:19
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goroboroyeah... I don't like the qml implementation to read metaData12:19
goroboroit assumes that tags are going to be in that format12:19
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goroboroand that onMetaDataChanged thing is a bugger12:20
goroborodid you try metData.title12:20
gabriel9|workgoroboro: check this out12:20
goroboroI think that worked for most of my streams12:20
Nicd-m4g0g: see https://bitbucket.org/Nicd/sailtime/src/1bfce5e59983?at=master and specifically the files src/harbour-sailtime.cpp, src/sysinfoc.h, src/sysinfoc.cpp and qml/harbour-sailtime.qml (the sysinfoc object is used there)12:21
gabriel9|workas i see it, we must watch for bytes12:21
gabriel9|workand then check metadata, if changed then update app12:22
* goroboro decides to let gabriel9|work do the heavy lifting... then I'll nick your code :P12:22
gabriel9|workif i manage to make it12:22
sharpneliRegarding the implementation of OpenCL ICD loader for sailfish. Is it possible to have rpm packages which download the source from a specific location?12:22
m4g0gNicd-: class + Q_PROPERTY. I have thought the same12:22
goroboroyeah, both leszek and I gave up12:23
sharpneliBecause Khronos license for their ready made implementation for linux specifies that you cannot redistribute the sources. You can however always point people to their official tarball12:23
sharpneliAnd the binary itself is under BSD license12:23
gabriel9|workhow to mount some /usr/share/MyApp with write permissions ?12:24
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gabriel9|workon local fs12:24
gabriel9|workthis nemo user is problem12:24
goroborogabriel9|work: why don't you just chmod /usr/share/MyApp while you are developing?12:25
gabriel9|worki could12:25
gabriel9|workbut i am afraid will i break something with that :/12:26
goroboroyou can always nuke it afterwards and redeploy to get the right permissions12:26
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goroborowell the files you are messing with are in MyApp... so you can only break MyApp12:26
goroboroand since you are the developer of MyApp... I don't see a problem with doing this while you are working12:27
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goroborogabriel9|work: if you're worried about restoring permissions to the way they were... install acl: pkcon install acl12:39
goroborothen you can use getfacl to get file permissions recursively through a directory and store them to file12:40
goroborothen use setfacl to reset them back to whatever you have in that file12:40
gabriel9|workthanks and this goes to my notes12:41
gabriel9|workthis entr restarts app12:42
goroborogetfacl -R /path/to/dir > /path/to/backup/backupname.attrs12:42
gabriel9|workis there a way to edit qml and see changes without restart?12:42
goroborothat will give you a backup of the file attributes12:42
goroborogabriel9|work: I think you have to restart the app12:43
goroboroI think it loads the qml at run time12:43
gabriel9|workah i see now12:43
gabriel9|workwell this entr is also ok for now12:44
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lbtnew post: https://together.jolla.com/question/39552/what-is-the-participation-and-contribution-policy-for-jollas-open-source-contributors-in-open-source-projects/13:27
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lbto/ m4g0g13:31
kaltsifyi: anyone using zypper on their device, check how large /var/log/zypper.log has grown.. remove if alarming13:32
m4g0gHow do you detect that your QNetworkReply in progress and you should show busy indicator in gui? Now I have property isRequestInProgress whish I set to true before QNAM->get and set to false in finished slot. May be there is more good way?13:32
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Sfiet_Konstantinm4g0g: show progress until the QNR emits finished ?13:35
Sfiet_Konstantinso basically, when calling QNAM get, you set a property like "busy" to true, and set it to false when the QNR emits the finished signals ?13:36
m4g0gSfiet_Konstantin: I do so13:39
m4g0gbut is seems like crap13:39
Sfiet_Konstantinm4g0g: then it should be enough13:39
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dr_gogeta86coderus: are u here ?13:47
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cos-chriadam|away: ok for example have a fb event which is 26.4 all day. in jolla calendar it is shown 26.4 03:00-23:59, all day 27.4-7.5 and 00:00-03:00 on 8.514:25
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artemmaHad a look at nokia publish tool first time in a year probably14:45
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artemmainterestingly country with most of my downloads in April was Iraq14:45
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artemmafollowed by Iran and Russia14:46
artemmaNokia N9 - phone for the axis of evil?14:46
Yanielless tracking than any android anyway14:46
Yanielor wp14:46
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lbtsailfishos meeting in #mer-meeting in 1min14:59
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Yanieloh right15:01
ppnokia (and jolla) actually has to comply with EU regulations :-)15:01
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stephgirc retard, how does one info, /info ?15:02
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stephgoh is not a command15:05
stephgthx Yaniel15:05
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MSameerfaenil: why are you silent now ? :p15:18
faenilI'm not? :)15:19
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Sfiet_KonstantinAnarky: hey15:27
Sfiet_Konstantinlet's talk here15:27
Anarkyok :)15:27
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lbtSfiet_Konstantin: I'm doing that git migration at the moment15:46
Sfiet_Konstantinlbt: cool :)15:46
Sfiet_Konstantinwill nemo land in mer gitlab too ?15:46
Stskeepsfirst after the move is effected15:47
Stskeepsfirst get mer working stable, then merge and break everything15:47
* MSameer slaps w00t 15:48
gabriel9is there a way to get logs from this chanel?15:49
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gabriel9i posted link today but i lost it :/15:49
Sfiet_Konstantingabriel9: which channel ?15:49
Sfiet_Konstantinthis one ?15:50
gabriel9this one15:50
Sfiet_Konstantingabriel9: http://merproject.org/logs/%23sailfishos/latest.log.html15:50
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MSameerstephg: why? isn't it needed?16:06
stephgMSameer, no needed, but can be abused16:06
stephgi.e. needs to be dealt with care16:07
MSameerstephg: that should be in the process itself I guess16:07
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artemmapeople mention developer-care email in the meeting channel. Has anybody ever got reply from it?16:11
artemmaI had three messages without an answer16:11
stephgnot asked, but fair point16:12
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MSameertbr: you are doing a great job managing the meeting :-)16:18
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kontio+1 ty16:20
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Stskeepsartemma: long story short, if you want to specialize a qml component, you'll always copy-paste it16:26
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artemmaM4rtinK: you mentioned some translation layer for using controls in both silica and non-silica world16:29
artemmaany pointers?16:29
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artemmaStskeeps: I may be wrong abt how much work it is to add needed things for making Silica work in OSS16:30
artemmaon the surface it's just theme16:30
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MSameeri also have my layer to use meego qml/silica qml and even qtquick 1.0 and 2.0. it;s not rocket science16:33
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artemmaMSameer: not just two different sets of qmls?16:41
* artemma would like to have a look at some code16:41
* artemma tried using something like that in the past and usually had issues with qmls import statements that couldn't be #ifdef'ed16:41
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crevetorHey guys, I'm all pumped up after the meeting and was wondering : how would I go about adding support for headset controls to sailfishos and also how to get the media to resume playing after a call16:58
Aardcrevetor: mediacontrols should be at least partially supported already, iirc16:59
Aardthat should come from ohm + policy, iirc17:00
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Aardit's one of the messier bits of the platform, stuff we inherited from nokia17:01
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crevetorYeah I have already fixed a "bug" in there, it wasn't a pleasant experience17:02
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Aardcrevetor: you probably picked an area where it does not make much sense to contribute now. longer term plans are dropping ohm, and going to murphy (https://01.org/murphy). resourcepolicy will go away as well, we already have libaudioresource in place as wrapper to make moving painless for newly written apps17:06
Aardit's still a bit fuzzy about the 'when', though, as there are other parts needing attention first17:07
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clowreeddHello! Do you happen to know how much it should take to boot Sailfish on a Nexus 4 for the first time? It's been around 15 minutes and I'm starting to worry...17:13
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natoriousclowreedd: it took mine quite a bit of time17:14
clowreeddAnd it was stucked on the "Google" logo during that time?17:14
Stskeeps15 sounds a bit extreme17:15
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clowreeddOuch... I was hoping that was normal... Ok, I'll try it again from the beginning17:15
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crevetorAard: ok, thanks17:31
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Aardcrevetor: related to that, pulseaudio 5 will either be in the upcoming update, or the one after that. and work for 'after' (bluez5 + pa6) will begin soon17:33
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crevetorAard: ok17:37
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jake9xxVenemo_j: ping - so basically you just need to switch the run target from project view18:05
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jake9xxVenemo_j: default is the default device of that kit you're using from QtCreator's pov18:05
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Venemo_jjake9xx: I changed the default to the new one, and it still trid to connect to the old one18:06
Venemo_jjake9xx: jope told me of an option somewhere that will switch it18:06
jake9xxVenemo_j: ok, with this updated version (rolling out pretty soon) I don't see that behavior18:06
Venemo_jjake9xx: but the real trouble is this: I expect the SDK to know which device is connected and just work18:07
Venemo_jjake9xx: sorry for saying this, but have you used the Windows Phone SDK?18:07
jake9xxVenemo_j: maybe QtC 3.0 based sdk will do that ? :)18:07
jake9xxVenemo_j: actually I have18:07
coderusVenemo_j: same for me18:08
coderusi need to change existing one18:08
coderusno other way18:08
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Venemo_jjake9xx, coderus: I want the sailfish os sdk to have a similarly good experience as the WP SDK.18:09
Venemo_jin this case, even the error message was wrong18:09
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Venemo_jit should've printed on the console something like this: "the specified device is not connected"18:10
Venemo_jbut really18:10
Venemo_jI'd expect it to figure it out18:10
coderuswell, have no experience with WP, cant say anything :)18:10
jake9xxVenemo_j: wanna push that to t.j.c ?18:11
Venemo_jjake9xx: okay, I will18:11
jake9xxtag it 'sdk' so it's easy to see18:11
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Venemo_jcoderus: it's a quite smooth experience. even though the OS is quite dumb18:11
Venemo_jcoderus: my experience was in the WP7 times, but then it basically took only a few seconds to get an app running18:13
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Venemo_jjake9xx: give a few minutes please and I'll put this to together18:17
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jake9xxok happy hackers:18:39
Venemojake9xx: https://together.jolla.com/question/39611/sailfish-sdk-please-improve-experience/18:53
Venemojake9xx: https://together.jolla.com/question/39339/sailfish-sdk-deployment-is-excessively-slow/18:54
Venemojake9xx: https://together.jolla.com/question/7029/idea-developer-experience-dev-device-programs-etc/18:54
Venemojake9xx: that's all I have in this regard :)18:54
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M4rtinKVenemo: do we have one for "Add support for using KVM instead of VirtualBox" ? :)18:55
VenemoM4rtinK: I don't really care whether it's KVM or VirtualBox, as long as it works18:55
jake9xxVenemo: tnx. I'll check those tomorrow18:55
jake9xxmost of that is already on my list tho18:55
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M4rtinKVenemo: well yeah, that's a good point18:56
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Venemojake9xx: as a general advice, it'd be nice to have at least helpful error messages. but at the moment the most pressing concern (in my opinion) is the slowness, and the bugs in the "deploy by copying binaries" method18:57
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artemmaOtto demonstrated blazing fast just qml update method on last #jollatre18:59
artemmaand posted abt just today - https://seravo.fi/2014/optimal-sailfish-sdk-workflow-qml-auto-reloading18:59
artemmayou may like to have a look - that was indeed very fast18:59
artemmaping jake9xx18:59
jake9xxartemma: pong19:00
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jake9xxartemma: no yaml editor ;)19:02
Venemoartemma: I don't deploy QML files with my apps. just a binary19:02
artemmajake9xx: it 's enough if creator doesn't touch my precious .yaml :)19:03
jake9xxartemma: it should not touch it anymore :)19:03
artemmaVenemo: I somehow find it more clean to have qmls in file system19:03
artemmathough every now and then I am tempted to put qmls to qrc to hide them from stupid rpm checker19:04
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jake9xxartemma: Venemo plus reverseengineering qml's out from qrc is not a major issue, but then again - reverse-engineering anything that is not encrypted is not19:04
artemmaproblem is I value good checker warnings, but bad ones make me cry19:04
Venemojake9xx: I don't do reverse engineering. I just don't like to clutter the file system19:04
jake9xxVenemo: I did not say you are doing.. I tried (?) to say qrc is not a safe haven-- ..19:05
artemmaah, why or why checker verifies the *text* of imports instead of what is actually imported.. heh, checking what's easy instead of what's intended19:05
Venemojake9xx: what do you mean?19:05
jake9xxactually I've been toying of idea of sshfs or equivalent, open the qml's on device -> hit save -> issue pkill -HUP for that process.. hmm19:06
jake9xxVenemo: tbh : I have no idea, guess I'm too tired now :)19:06
artemmajake9xx: qrc should save you from the need to modify plugins bundled with the app19:06
Venemojake9xx: I know qrc is not a safe haven. I don't use it as a means to "protect" the QML or anything. I just don't want to clutter the file system19:07
M4rtinKjust for the record I've been using the rsync method from the begging :)19:07
jake9xxVenemo: it makes sense yes - plus having all files in ole binary makes sure that stuff gets found when binary is run19:07
Venemojake9xx: yes, precisely19:08
M4rtinKeven before QML, for Python code :)19:08
M4rtinKso since 2010 ? :)19:08
Venemojake9xx: also, qrc is cross-platform. meaning you don't have to care where the files actually are on that weird platform19:08
jake9xxVenemo: now that's a valid point19:08
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Venemojake9xx: I can be sure that my stuff is gonna be there when I need it, even on Symbian, Blackberry and other messy platforms19:09
artemmahmm, my app was rejected because nemo thumbnailer writes files to /home/nemo/.cache/.nemothumbs  okay.. so I'll need to recompile thumbnailer19:09
jake9xxfor development having bunch of qml's is handy tho.. but we'd need something like this: http://www.qtcentre.org/threads/3891-automatic-generation-of-qrc-file in sdk19:10
artemmaand because something writes to /home/nemo/.cache/ambienced  .. well, I aske ambienced daemon via DBus to create ambience. Shall it really be restricted? :/19:10
jake9xxI'm off 4 today - tomorrow, UTC 10:00 - showtime19:10
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* artemma got stuck.. I want to create ambience, but ambience daemon itself writes to /home/nemo/.cache/ambienced that is not allowed. What should I do?19:12
jake9xxof cource I went to read artemma 's article. Let's chat tomorrow morre19:12
jake9xxnow gone ->19:13
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artemmajake9xx: not mine, mine is the link ony19:13
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artemmajake9xx: not mine, mine is the link only19:13
M4rtinKI think at this point Jolla should accept defeat in regards to Harbour and make OpenRepos the default repository :)19:14
artemmamaybe if I quickly delete files ambienced creates, checker won't notice :)19:14
M4rtinK(only half joking :) )19:14
artemmaM4rtinK: there could be some midway solution19:14
artemmalike chum maybe :)19:14
M4rtinKjust "encrypt" your QML files with ROT13 and "decrypt" it on first run to your config folder and run from there :)19:15
* artemma wonders if he could ask ambienced to create its stuff in a specific folder.. unlickely19:15
artemmawell, I actually need to use ambienced for creating ambience19:15
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artemmawhole point of app is actually automatic ambiencing random photo once in a while19:16
M4rtinKyeah, that looks like it could be nice :)19:16
artemmatoo bad ambienced isn't open, so I cannot build a copy just for my app :)19:16
artemmaM4rtinK: that was my most popular N9 app except there it was just setting good wallpapers once in a while19:17
artemma3 months on the first page of photo video apps iirc19:17
artemmaor maybe 219:17
M4rtinKBTW, I think you mentioned you wanted to talk about the Sailica/Controls abstraction layer ? :)19:18
M4rtinKat mer-meeting19:18
artemmaM4rtinK: I am a little too tired for productive discussion, but yeah, I'd love to have a look at good way to do it19:19
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artemmaI used something not very convenient in the past19:19
M4rtinKit lives here: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/tree/master/modules/gui_modules/gui_qt5/qml/universal_components19:19
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M4rtinKthe application sees it as a QML plugin called "UC"19:20
artemmaso you create your own controls that are.. close to copying sailfish?19:20
M4rtinKbut the elements provided by UC can be backed by either Silica elements or Controls19:21
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artemmaI don't get it :/19:21
artemmae.g. https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/blob/master/modules/gui_modules/gui_qt5/qml/universal_components/controls/UC/PageHeader.qml19:22
artemmaHow can it use Silica label?19:22
M4rtinKeven the label is abstracted away :)19:22
artemmaI can't see how you bind it to real Silica Label19:23
M4rtinKwell in this case19:24
artemmaah.. your final app imports UC only19:24
artemmaand UC provides one of these folders19:24
M4rtinKthe code you linked is not used on Sailfish19:24
artemmai see19:24
M4rtinKbot on desktop and in the future elsewhere19:24
artemmaclever idea19:24
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artemmawould be too much of maintenance for me to do it19:25
M4rtinKmore of a hack to work around the stupid non-dynamic imports in QML19:25
artemmacould actually make a nice standalone library19:25
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M4rtinKyeah, definitely19:25
artemmayeah, that was the very original point for this discussion. In the past I was always stumbled at inability to #ifdef imports19:26
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artemmaBTW, there is an official Qt answer for it (a couple of years old though) provided one of the then to-be-sailors :)19:26
M4rtinKbut not enough time to do that at the moment - but it is pretty independent already, just a few backward dependencies (using rWin, the application root window)19:26
M4rtinKI know they want it to be simple19:27
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M4rtinKand "just write the GUI for each platform again, it's fast"19:27
artemmanope. the point is that dynamic import is possible :)19:27
artemmait's just weird (to my eyes)19:27
artemmayou can use Loader19:27
M4rtinKbut that breaks down fast with many platforms and non trivial apps19:27
M4rtinKyeah, that19:28
M4rtinKI'm already using that for QtPositioning import19:28
M4rtinKso that it does not take the rest of the app with itself if the import fails19:28
artemmaBTW, are you actually using all these three platforms?19:28
M4rtinKbut loads a dummy interface instead19:28
artemmaIs it easy UI-wise to make UI look fine for three platforms with this abstraction layers?19:29
M4rtinKbut IIRC it had issues to be used for graphical elements19:29
M4rtinKthe Glacier one is basically a stub at the moment19:29
M4rtinKbut I used the Silica and Controls backends regularly19:30
artemmamost of code seems to be in Controls adaptations19:30
artemmaso I guess Silica is the base for UI19:31
M4rtinKwith the Controls backend I can just run modRana directly without any need for an emulator during development :)19:31
artemmaah, so it's more for the development speed19:31
artemmathat's real clever!19:31
M4rtinKI've never really used emulators :)19:31
artemmathat is if look and behavior are consistent enough19:31
M4rtinKI like to just run the application directly instead :)19:32
artemmathis controls code. There's quite much to write and debug and there will be layouting errors19:32
artemmaor did you mostly copy Silica code?19:32
M4rtinKbut yeah, Silica is farther ahead concerning mobile UIs, so I mostly add code for Controls deficiencies :)19:33
artemmamaybe I just looked at the control with biggest trouble (combo box), the rest are way simpler19:33
M4rtinKsome of it si moved from custom components19:34
artemmaI find it hard to believe that desktop version looks close enough, but.. well, if it works for you19:34
M4rtinKand some of it made explicitly to provide a common interface19:34
M4rtinKbiggest example is the combo box19:34
artemmawhat about theming? Label needs to get font and pixelSize somehow. You just use desktop defaults?19:35
M4rtinKas Controls uses list items but Silica uses menu items :)19:35
artemmaI guess it depends on how much your app is about careful tuning UI layouts..19:36
artemmaI can imaging such a layer being perfect for tuning the c++ side and whatever core features are about and approximate buttons locations19:36
artemmaor maybe QML dynamics is exactly good enough to verify in emulator only once in a while :)19:37
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M4rtinKI'll see if I have any screenshots of the Controls UI19:37
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artemmaM4rtinK: Anyway, I think it's a great project, Jolla could do something like that just to help devs speed up the development19:38
artemmait would be awesome if you created a public project/effort around it under some more library-compatible license (assuming you own all current copyright)19:38
M4rtinKwell, I was running Harmattan Qt components on my PC :)19:39
* artemma was using weird substitutions on main views to simulate harmattan and symbian on desktop19:39
M4rtinKI guess it would not be hard to do the same for Silica if they released the source :)19:39
M4rtinKsure, patches welcome! :)19:40
artemmaQML part of Silica controls is open under BSD19:40
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M4rtinKI know19:40
artemmaM4rtinK: sorry, can't contribute to GPL code19:40
artemmawell, to code I can't use back in my apps19:40
M4rtinKbut still not usable as a whole without the (relatively small) C++ part19:40
artemmaI think they just didn't want to spend time on opening full Silica. Work on clarifying dependencies, etc without clear benefit19:41
M4rtinKI guess I could dual license the compatibility layer as BSD19:42
M4rtinKif there is any code from Silica, that's BSD already :)19:42
artemmathat would do for me. Not sure if anybody would be interested enough to contribute, but for me it would've been a useful project19:43
artemmaI am not sure you can inject BSD parts into GPL project :/19:43
artemmayou certainly can use BSD libs19:43
artemmaoh well, I am not a laywer19:43
artemmaprobably you can inject BSD easily, just need to care to reproduce BSD license too19:44
M4rtinKwell, the Python license is basically BSD19:45
M4rtinKso I guess it should be about the same here19:45
artemmaBTW, feel free to reuse HelloWorld Pro base for lib demo. It's public domain19:46
artemmaOr maybe if we add also log4qt demo, that could make a MegaHelloWorld: one runnable on many platforms with logging, c++ and qml tests :)19:47
M4rtinKyeah, that might be a good combination :)19:47
* artemma was just yesterday and today thinking of trying a cross-platform project for Android-iOS-Silica :)19:47
M4rtinKso I guess all add "make a repo for universal components" to my TODO list & let you know once it exists :)19:49
M4rtinKbut now - late dinner time! :)19:49
artemmathat's be cool19:49
artemmathat'd be cool19:49
artemmabut PulleyMenu?19:51
M4rtinKhaven't yet got to adding that :)19:52
* artemma still thinks about making whole UI similar... you still want to do significant variations unless you are doing a full screen game. Like Toolbar VS PulleyMenu19:53
M4rtinKbut I was thinking about implementing by having 4 properties on the page19:54
M4rtinKand you would assign to those the menu19:55
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M4rtinKand depending on the backend, it would either be a pulley menu or something else19:55
artemmaI can imagine two elements reusable between platform: main content area (e.g. grid or list or map) and pageStack hierarchy19:55
artemmathe page chrome (including menu and maybe menu structure) got to be platform dependent19:56
artemmahmm, maybe idea of full ui rewrite is not so bad after all :)19:56
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M4rtinKreally depends on the app :)19:56
artemmathat doesn't diminish great value of your approach for speeding up the development19:57
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M4rtinKand should also provide some sort of UI on BB10, Android, Ubuntu Touch and with the Maemo 5 Qt 5 port :)19:59
M4rtinK...hopefully :)20:00
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M4rtinKartemma: so this is how the modRana UI running with the Controls backend currently looks like: http://modrana.org/images/qt5_gui/20:12
M4rtinKas you can see, nothing extra :)20:12
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artemmalooks good20:13
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artemmawell, you are drawing whole ui yourself20:13
M4rtinKthis is the same GUI code running with Silica: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/ScreenshotsENscreesnhot#SilicaGUIonSailfishOS20:13
artemmaso for you system chrome doesn't matter20:13
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artemmahmm, actually look and feel is adapting quite a lot20:14
artemmalooks good20:14
M4rtinKyeah - and if it ever runs on Android, where every app look different :D20:14
M4rtinKthanks! :)20:14
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artemmabtw, you seem to use default Text's color for links20:15
artemmalooks cooler if you use color from Theme. I think highlightColor20:15
M4rtinKknown issue :)20:17
M4rtinKwell, actually I see it as a bug in Silica20:18
M4rtinKIMHO they should do that20:18
M4rtinKits it just a bit of CSS IRRC20:19
artemmaprobably yes20:19
artemmaI just set link color myself20:19
artemmavia css style20:19
* artemma wonders if developer-care email works nowadays. Would ask them about ambience generation dir20:20
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M4rtinKI think I'll open a question on Together20:21
jake9xxartemma: use together instead20:21
M4rtinKasking for that CSS code to be included in Silica20:21
M4rtinK ...once I get some free time to do that :)20:22
artemmatogether.. I can try..20:22
M4rtinKso anyone else is free to do that instead :)20:22
M4rtinKartemma: thanks! :)20:22
artemmanot sure if TJC actually followed for qustions that don' get popularity vote20:22
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M4rtinKartemma: well, that's a good point :)20:23
artemmaM4rtinK: I mean to follow jake9xx advice and maybe create request for allowing to call ambienced :)20:23
jake9xxit is20:23
M4rtinKwell, you can fill the CSS links when you are at it :)20:23
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artemmajake9xx: but.. but.. how do I post on TJC to get noticed?20:23
jake9xxuse 'sdk' tag20:23
artemmaI can understand that maybe "bug" tag is monitored, but it's not a bug20:23
artemmaah, okay, sdk tag20:23
M4rtinKjake9xx: I'm subscribed on a lot of the technical ones and they don't seem to be getting much attention20:24
jake9xxat least we scan those tags20:24
M4rtinKsdk ?20:24
artemmareading coming sdk noted. Yay, yaml editor got killed indeed!20:24
artemmaand debugger too. So people will stop using tests :)20:25
artemmaah, what's the heck: I'll use all four support channels, will see what helps :)20:26
artemmaanyway same text20:26
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jake9xxM4rtinK: i can only talk about sdk but we do scan our tags20:28
jake9xxartemma: nice to see you happy :)20:29
artemmajake9xx: you got to be positive :)20:30
artemmain new OS world20:30
artemmaon the other hand Jolla might be flexible enough to actually change the rules when there are reaons20:30
* artemma would certainly just grant his own app an exception, because exactly this app is doing great and nice things and feeds kittens20:31
jake9xxok but zz time. tomorrow will be busy20:32
artemmaactually, hmm,.. it is not even my app that is writing to cache folders - it's another process20:32
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M4rtinKartemma: +1 ! :)20:33
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M4rtinKon a serious note, allowing such exceptions to Harbour provided developers know their apps might break20:34
M4rtinKwould make Harbour a lot more useful application source20:34
* artemma doesn't understand20:35
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Guest81859I'd say it's about not breaking apps for *users*, not for developers20:35
Guest81859goddamnit nickserv20:35
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M4rtinKapps always break just for users :)20:35
artemmauhm, I am not really asking for exceptions for my app (though it would be nice)20:35
M4rtinKdevelopers know how to fix them for themselves, users usually don't :)20:35
specialit's a bad experience for users if OS updates break their store apps20:35
artemmapoint is it is system daemon writing files to where it wants. Why should my app be responsible?20:36
specialeven if the developer would fix it soon after20:36
M4rtinKand the alternative is having no maps & GPS using apps in your main application store20:36
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M4rtinKfor 4 months and counting :)20:37
artemmaspecial: in the "other operating system" there is an idea called "beta OS release" and "developer preview" ;)20:37
artemmaand in the uncalled OS there is also process called "update your goddamned apps to new OS release or it can be kicked out at any moment" ;)20:38
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M4rtinKyeah, that's what package maintainers are for :)20:39
ajalkanewake me up when harbor allows background processes :)20:39
M4rtinKfixing the breakage caused by core package updates :)20:40
artemmaajalkane: I have a workaround in plans, but first I need to pass the ambience daemon gateway ;)20:40
M4rtinKajalkane: you mean daemons, right ?20:40
ajalkaneyeah daemons. Not sure if I'm happy with hacks that momentarily get around the restrictions :P20:40
M4rtinKIIRc you can use the inhibit stuff already somehow in Harbour20:41
artemmaSuch hacks created me 40K downloads in 2 months in Nokia N9 and many happy users ;)20:41
ajalkaneinhibit? What's that?20:41
artemmaN9 also didn't allow daemons20:41
M4rtinKwell, then even thp started publishing in OpenRepos :)20:41
ajalkaneN9 allowed daemons20:41
artemmanot that I knew of :/20:41
M4rtinKHarbour looks less and less to be the primary repo for Sailfish :)20:41
ajalkaneI've done a couple of daemon using apps for N9 like ProfileMatic and RingingRestorer20:42
M4rtinKprofilematic! :)20:42
artemmainteresting. I was sure daemons were not allowed20:42
artemmawow, discoveries20:42
ajalkaneThere was even a whole chapter in the N9 developer docs on how to create daemons20:42
artemmawell, apparently I missed it20:42
* artemma went to tricks with timed to create daemon-like effects without daemons20:43
artemmaor was it so that each daemon just had to be specifically approved?20:44
ajalkaneBut that's okay as long as the events are time based20:44
* artemma tries to recall20:44
artemmayeah, my use case was precisely time based: changing wallpaper on schedule20:44
artemmaI also wanted to change it on event (e.g. on every phone unlock), but for that I would need a real daemon20:45
ajalkaneI don't think Nokia had any restrictions on that. I doubt they had any checks on if it uses a daemon or not. I think they had pretty basic checks on where the files were installed and whether system files were tampered with20:45
ajalkaneas long as you used upstart's configuration files for starting your daemon they seemed to be okay with it.20:46
artemmawell, maybe I just didn't know how to really create daemons20:46
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* artemma is tempted to just go for OpenRepos.. damned, but I want app to be accessible by thousands, preferably millions of people20:49
ajalkanefor your use case, using timed was probably in restrospect a good thing. No need to hold a binary in memory if it's only needed in certain intervals20:49
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artemmaokay, sent an email to developer-care20:51
artemmalet's see how fast we hear back20:51
artemmaprevious three times had 3.5 months reply time on average, still counting :)20:52
artemmahmm, can't see any license at https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugin-thumbnailer20:56
artemmais whole nemo under LGPL?20:56
speciallooks like those files all have 3-clause BSD?20:57
artemmaah, indeed20:57
artemmaexactly one I had opened didn't have it20:57
artemmaon the other hand the only think I really need to change in thumbnailer is where it writes files to20:58
artemmaMaybe I can just somehow modify what QStandardPaths report20:58
artemmathey should base on system vars after all, right?20:58
artemmai mean on environment vars20:59
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artemmaor are .so libraries loaded simultaneously with main binary?21:00
artemmathough it's loaded via qml plugins mechanism..21:01
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stephgyey just saw the sdk update21:30
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Acceyep, debugging, finally21:35
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m4g0gwhat qt version is used by sailfish?21:49
M4rtinK5.1 + patches21:49
m4g0gi need 5.2 ((21:50
special5.2 will be coming at some point21:50
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M4rtinKyeah and a lot of 5.2 is in those patches21:53
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m4g0gthere is no qtimezone21:55
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merlin1991m4g0g: just wondring, what are you working on that needs timezones?22:34
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