Wednesday, 2014-07-30

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tortoisedoccrappy qsettings10:24
SK_worktortoisedoc: what happened ?10:24
tortoisedocwell after enabling core dumps it seems quickbar crashes on sync'ing settings10:25
tortoisedocBasilSemuonov was suggesting it might be due to missing parent / multple threads using qsettings10:26
tortoisedocbut it still happens even after adding parents10:26
tortoisedocand making sure no object is used more than in one location10:26
SK_worktortoisedoc: do you have multiple threads ?10:27
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tortoisedocbut a qml object inherits from my settings manager (which handles qsettings internally)10:29
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SK_workcan you attach a debugger ?10:33
SK_worktortoisedoc: weired10:33
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HBP_hmmh strangely some aroid apps don't seem to get the location data if google mapsis,not running10:42
HBP_for example swarm seems to wait for location forever if I don't start gmaps10:43
tortoisedocSK_work : yes, weird10:52
tortoisedoccrash happens in libqt5qml10:53
tortoisedocwhich package is it in ? I could get the symbol files10:53
tortoisedocbacktrace says repeated stack10:53
tortoisedocso most likely corrupted?10:53
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entilthe kernel sources for the jolla aren't open yet, are they?10:55
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tbrentil: of course they are10:55
tbrjust not for the two non-gpl modules10:56
entilI mean more open than receivable on a dvd ;)10:56
tbrentil: hosted on images.formeego.org10:56
entilmaybe I googled too quickly to pay attention to all the results10:56
entilthe latest release isn't up on
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tbrentil: will poke carsten when he's back from vacation11:06
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entilsure, no worries11:10
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entilhad to spread the evangelism, that's all :)11:10
entiltbr: out of interest, if someone wanted to compile a custom kernel for the jolla, is that package enough, if it doesn't come with all the drivers?11:11
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tbrentil: yes, you can still load the binary modules11:12
tbrentil: you will need to ensure though that the kernel has the exact same ID, else the modules will fail to load11:12
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entilsailfishos does insmod -f by default like?11:12
tbrat least the wifi module does some stupid additional checking IIRC11:13
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entilis the kernel id something else than what's in uname?11:13
entiland have people been doing that, compiling custom kernels?11:14
tbryeah, the stuff from uname essentially11:15
entillike android has cyanogenmod11:15
tbrthere is nemo mobile if you mean a fully open source and very similar environment11:16
entilwell, if someone had an actually better kernel, I might consider that, but I'm not going to change the os altogether11:17
tbrwhat is a "better kernel"11:17
entillike bfs on a desktop11:17
tbrwhat is bfs?11:18
entilan alternative scheduler, maybe the dev blog's the best place to read up
tbrthe device is confined to this one vendor-oem-frankenkernel, there won't be several kernels, the most that could ever be would be patches on top of that11:19
tbrBFS is not a kernel, it's a patch.11:19
entilsure, bfs is a patch, but I don't know exactly how intrusive it is, whether or not it'd apply11:19
entilor if it'd give the same kind of benefit on the jolla11:19
tbrtry and find out11:20
entilbut that's what I was asking about, if people have patches that make a better kernel and if someone's doing it :D11:20
entilI might, but I'm happy with the phone as it is11:20
entilgot a meeting in 10 minutes, got to go. thanks for the info! ->11:21
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SK_worktortoisedoc: qt5-qtdeclarative something like that for qt5qml debug package11:52
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tortoisedoccan pkcon find the package for a certain library?12:05
merlin1991Of an already installed library or one you know the name of?12:17
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HBP_gnnh I think loading closed source modules that are compiled against some other kernel version is quite bad, as it's generally unsupported :| I'd rather do closed stuff in user space.13:00
HBP_at least latter is approximately what we are doing at my work place and it feels more correct for me.13:00
HBP_BSDs is a different story then13:01
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tbrHBP_: it is not a different kernel version though, especially not if you don't mess with the interfaces used by those modules13:15
tbrit's just a rebuild of the same kernel13:15
tbrbut yes, binary modules suck and must die13:15
tbrI was hoping to have seen the last of that back in the 2.4.19 days, but noooo13:16
HBP_ooor... there could be a proper abi like in freeBSD13:16
HBP_but that's not something anyone would like to implement for linux13:16
tbrI'd be very surprised to see something like that merged13:16
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bennaHi everyone, I'm trying to install a package via pkcon but I get an error... is this the right place to ask?14:36
EztranHere or #jollamobile generally, this is often used for dev issues and that for general talk, but it's hardly clear-cut. What's the error?14:37
bennaok thanks! I'm trying to install cups and it says "nothing provides /sbin/chkconfig"14:40
bennaand the error is still there even if the file exists14:40
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Eztranthe chkconfig package should provide it, presumably.14:45
EztranIs that present (regardless of the file being there or not)?14:45
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bennathere is not such a package, jolla runs on systemd14:46
bennaI wrote a bash script that converts chkconfig calls to systemctl calls and symlinked it in place, but as said it didn't solve the error14:47
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bennaI guess it has something to do with the cups package14:47
tbrsounds like the cups package is broken then14:48
tbrwhere did you get the cups package?14:48
EztranSo the package depends on one providing chkconfig (i.e. the chkconfig package)?14:48
bennaI run pkcon14:48
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bennait is in the repo14:48
EztranThere is actually an rpm of chkconfig on NeilDK's OpenRepos repo, which should at least satisfy the dependency. Shouldn't be necessary though - why is a version of cups available which requires that package anyway?14:49
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bennadevel-su pkcon install cups14:56
bennaresolving dependencies... fatal error: nothing provides /sbin/chkconfig needed by cups-
EztranFWIW, chkconfig is available at . As you say, rather pointless on Sailfish, but having it present should stop pkcon complaining and then you can use you script, I guess.15:00
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EztranThat or maybe have a dummy package which has Provides for /sbin/chkconfig, I suppose.15:01
bennanow is /sbin/service15:08
bennachkconfig worked15:08
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bennaany idea about what pprovides /sbin/service?15:16
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smoku_benna: just "pkcon download . cups" and then "rpm -i --force cups*.rpm" ;-)15:21
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bennasmoku_: thanks but it keeps failing because of lots of unmet dependencies15:27
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tortoisedocfor the record:16:46
tortoisedocmy problem with qsettings turned out to be caused by something elde16:47
tortoisedocoh and btw16:47
tortoisedocnew release for Quickbar is on openrepos :)16:47
tortoisedoc*New in version 0.14-68 (saari)  Saari was supposed to be a patch fix for merenranta, instead it ended up including a new feature  (device lock support), hence it got upgraded to stand-alone release.      Device lock mode supported!     Tentative (optimistic) fix for random crashs     Linked swipe/non swipe checkbox "checked" properties (missing)16:47
tortoisedocsorry for this16:47
tortoisedocthis was the correct post :P16:47
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tortoisedocgiucam : your wayland workaround works btw16:53
tortoisedocvery nicely :)16:53
tortoisedocnow if I can find a way for my quickbar window to be notified with events from another window it will be excellent16:54
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giucamtortoisedoc: cool. i'm not sure i remember what the problem was but i'm glad it works :)17:14
tortoisedocgiucam : bug in qt5 related to render thread using old wayland buffer to render17:15
tortoisedocyou gave a workaround in forcing the view to be false (in frameswap)17:15
giucamah, yes17:15
tortoisedocthat pays for a place on my thank you list ;)17:15
tortoisedocgiucam : is there no interface in wayland for a surface to be notified of events occouring on another surface?17:17
giucamtortoisedoc: what events?17:17
tortoisedoctouch /visibility / etc events17:17
giucamtortoisedoc: no. that'd break client isolation and as such would be a security issue17:17
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tortoisedocgiucam : makes sense17:18
giucamright, now i remember. you'd want to know when the lockscreen is swapped away, right?^17:19
tortoisedocyeah for example17:20
tortoisedoccurrently i rely on dbus17:20
tortoisedocbut it is a bit laggish17:20
tortoisedoc(for this particular case)17:20
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tortoisedocI have some ideas on how this could be made better17:23
tortoisedochowever, I hope jolla will  listen and provide some tools as I would rather avoid going over that road :)17:23
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giucamwell, what are these ideas? :)17:24
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tortoisedocim not sure yet :P17:26
* tortoisedoc installs blender17:27
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tortoisedoci am tempted to add plugin support18:04
tortoisedocto quickbar18:04
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M4rtinKtortoisedoc: extensibility FTW! :)18:26
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Znurre__heya, how can I force landscape orientation for an app if I am not using the ApplicationWindow and Page components?18:30
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w00t_Znurre__: rotate your drawing18:31
Znurre__w00t_: how about close/minimize gestures then? :)18:32
w00t_call QWindow::reportContentOrientationChange18:34
Znurre__thanks a lot! :)18:34
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tortoisedocM4rtinK : exactly :) and would probably gather more focus from jolla :)18:46
tortoisedoci.e. we could most likely improve integration18:48
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HtheBcoderus: yo18:56
HtheBping :)18:57
M4rtinKtortoisedoc: I'm thinking about a "find me the nearest pizza" button :)19:06
tortoisedocM4rtinK: that sounds something for an account plugin :P19:06
tortoisedocgreat idea :)19:06
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coderusHtheB: pong19:07
HtheBits offtopic, but can you help me for something? :)19:07
coderusHtheB: just ask and i;ll answer if can19:08
HtheBpm'ed :)19:08
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M4rtinKtortoisedoc: more like calling modRana with a --local-search=pizza parameter :)19:10
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tortoisedocsurely being able to order a pizza from your jolla's lockscreen with one button is pretty 4w3z0m319:28
M4rtinKwell, I don't really mean order19:31
M4rtinKbut that would be kinda cool :)19:31
M4rtinKgetting pizza at random times when it activates itself in your pocket :)19:32
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M4rtinKon a more serious note time is critical when looking for a restaurant for a lunch or dinner for a group of people19:33
M4rtinKit is basically a race who can find it first using their local knowledge or mobile phones19:33
tortoisedocM4rtinK : not if you use the swiping option :P19:33
M4rtinKso a dedicated button on the lockscreen might help you win such a "race" :)19:34
tortoisedoci think i will focus on favourites next19:36
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tortoisedocthat should be easier than plugins and achieve the same result (of having a button to order pizza from your lockscreen)19:37
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M4rtinKyeah :)19:37
tortoisedocgiucam : XDG-Shell not supported in qtwayland / mer as of yet?19:39
giucamtortoisedoc: it is partially supported in qtwaylande client side, however not in server side19:39
giucamtortoisedoc: and anyway it doesn't really make sense for a smartphone ui19:39
tortoisedocgiucam : ah ok :)19:44
tortoisedocgiucam: how so? (doesnt make sense I mean)19:44
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tworazHi, anyone interested in beta testing sailfish port of Google VoltAir game?20:10
tadziktworaz, hi!20:10
tadziksure I am20:10
tworazI've ported the game, but don't really have the time to test it :P20:10
tadziknever heard of VoltAir tho20:10
tadzikI can give it a shot on tomorrow's commute :)20:10
tworazI've finished a couple of initial levels, but that's it20:12
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smokutworaz: put it on OpenRepos and you'll have loads of feedback :)20:15
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tadzikhah, rpm opened in c:geo, wtf20:16
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tworazsmoku: the plan is upload it to harbour, I don't see a point in having it in two different places20:17
tadziktworaz: it seems to be lagging every now and then, especially sound, but it seems to work alright aside from that20:20
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smokutworaz: put it on OpenRepos, gather feedback, remove from OpenRepos once accepted to Harbour20:21
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M4rtinKsmoku: actually I think it is not a bad idea to have it in both if possible :)20:25
M4rtinKthis might give an application a bit bigger exposure20:26
M4rtinKand unlike Harbour there is no QA delay in OpenRepos20:26
smokuM4rtinK: you think there are sailfish users that have warehouse installed and do not have jolla store installed?20:27
M4rtinKso stuff like releasing to OpenRepos first and pushing to Harbour if nothing breaks is possible20:27
tworazQA delay is not so bad for harbour20:27
smokuI like the idea of using OpenRepos for beta-testing before Harbour release though :)20:27
M4rtinKwell I think that at least currently many people don't really care about Harbour20:27
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M4rtinKI haven't look in it in months20:28
M4rtinKbut I check Warehouse regularly20:28
tworazcompletely opposite here20:28
tworazI don't care about Warehouse at all20:28
smokunone of my apps meets harbour restrictions ;-)20:28
M4rtinKmight get better once you can actually submit apps that do something to Harbour :)20:28
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smokukind of hard when most usefull APIs are banned from harbour ;-)20:30
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tworaztadzik: I'm aware of the lag, I'm not 100% sure but it might be related to how the engine updates it's logic20:30
tworaztadzik: original port uses functionality only present in Qt 5.3 which is not available on sailfish, yet20:31
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tworazsmoku: most useful apis are available via dbus which is not restricted, yet20:32
kimmoli_sailing_tworaz: +1 for voltair efforts...20:33
M4rtinKwell for one I need Python :)20:34
M4rtinKand that's not yet supported due to the Jolla Store not yet supporting API versioning20:34
M4rtinKthe people using SDL are basically in the same boat20:34
lukedirtwalkerHm anyone uses a Slider with valueText ? For me the valueText isn't shown20:34
tadziktworaz: ah, I see20:34
smokutworaz: or reading /sys yourself.  but reimplementing/including half of the OS in your app is not really the point...20:35
M4rtinKother than that everything is ready - the needed libraries have been in the repos for months and are used by many non-store apps already20:35
tworaztadzik: One interesting thing however is the lag in the app menus, it's kind of strange because it's pure qml20:36
tworazM4rtinK: The question is how stable ABI those libraries have20:37
tworazM4rtinK: Imagine a situation where salfish 2.0 upgrades those libs and half of harbour apps stop working20:38
M4rtinKwell, I wouldn't be afraid in this case :)20:39
M4rtinKboth Python and SDL are widely used mature projects and are API stable20:39
tworazIf you have only open source apps it's not a problem20:39
M4rtinKand the Python <-> QtQuick 2.0 bindings are even written by Jollas thp :)20:39
M4rtinKtworaz: well, yeah - API stability is not easy to handle well20:40
tworazthe question is which python version, 2.x and 3.x are not exactly compatible20:40
* smoku contemplates Android's 17 API levels...20:40
M4rtinKtworaz: we talked about it on the community roundtable on FOSDEM - there is really no silver bullet solving everything without any downsides20:41
M4rtinK3 of course :)20:41
M4rtinKsmoku: I advice you to check the mess of random files Android uses to implement it :)20:42
tworazjolla is not that bad in regards of what libraries are available, tizen is worse, only HTML520:42
smokuM4rtinK: no thanks... I know Android development from beer-stories only.  and even that is enough20:42
M4rtinKtworaz: IIRc that is no longer true20:43
M4rtinKtworaz: was like this initially but was changed to HTML5 & native and there is even a community port of Qt 520:43
tadzikWell, Firefox OS is still HTML5 onl20:43
tadzikand I don't think they intend to change that20:44
M4rtinKtworaz: but things might have changed - the Tizen project has always been very very chaotic20:44
M4rtinKtadzik: that's why I don't like Firefox OS :)20:44
tworazM4rtinK: community not official, I work with the guy responsible for it, he'd like to see it made official20:44
M4rtinKtadzik: dropping all the existing libraries and rewriting all in shitty Javascript - yeah, right :P20:45
M4rtinKtworaz: I really wonder why it is not officially supported20:45
M4rtinKsame thing on Android20:46
M4rtinKconsidering how shitty the current options are on these platforms20:46
M4rtinKthe only reason I can think of is attempted vendor lockin or incompetence :)20:46
tworazM4tinK: Can't tell, but samsung still seems to invest a lot in EFL20:46
tadzikM4rtinK: hehe, I await the moment when someone implements Qt on HTML5 canvas so we can deprecate this whole thing :P20:47
M4rtinKtworaz: IIRC they are shipping fridges running EFL and maybe also something else20:47
M4rtinKtworaz: but they lost rasterman, the main EFL contributor some time ago20:47
M4rtinKdue to some disagreements IIRC20:47
tworazM4tinK: HTML5 apps run on WebKitEFL port20:47
M4rtinKthat IMHO limits the credibility of them really pushing EFL20:48
M4rtinKBTW, GTK3 apps can run on a HTML5 :)20:48
M4rtinKit is called "Broadway":
tworazrasterman is employed by samsung20:49
smokuM4rtinK: "shitty" is a bit harsh... JavaScript is the new C20:49
M4rtinKI seem to remember him quitting some time ago20:49
tadzikwell, I'm this sole person in the universe that prefers Gtk to Qt actually :)20:50
tadzikbut that might be because I detest C++20:50
M4rtinKsmoku: well I don't mean using Javascript for simple pieces of functionality in QML20:51
M4rtinKsmoku: but everything else gets crazy FAST20:51
tadzikwell, I wouldn't say it's the new C20:52
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M4rtinKtadzik: GTK has some things Qt does not, like the automatic binding generation thanks to GObject introspection20:52
tadzikI haven't seen many languages being compiled to C because C is fucking disgusting20:52
smokuM4rtinK: me too. C was a revolution, as it was first popular portable assembly.  same is now with javascript - higher languages compile to javascript, which in turn gets compiled to browser native20:53
M4rtinKtadzik: Vala :)20:53
tadzikthat's one, not many :)20:53
smokutadzik: C++ was developed as a set of C macros ;P20:53
tadzikand Vala is there to stop people from using C#, not because C is stupid :)20:53
tadziksmoku: I know, but I still think it's all a bit different :)20:54
M4rtinKhmm, C++, that reminds me: :)20:54
smokutadzik: in practice it's not that different.  seen ?20:55
tadzikyeah, I know about it. But it's still all built on javascript, and that's unlikely to go away20:57
tadzikwith C you can just generate binary code from anything you want, as long as you stick to the same calling conventions20:57
tadzikso, you might say that JS is the new assembly, as horrifying as that sounds. I wouldn't say it's the new C20:57
tadzikthe difference I see is that modern languages don't have to deal with C's limitations20:58
smokulike C calling convention? ;-)20:58
tadzikoh you :P20:59
tadzikstill, only if the interact with C libraries20:59
smokupotato potato20:59
tadzikI know, I know20:59
smokuI'm sure you got my point, and I get your concerns :-)21:00
tadzikright :)21:00
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tworazIt'd be actually interesting to have a good HTML5 runtime on sailfish21:04
tadzikand fxos compatibility layer even, perhaps?21:04
tworazcurrent WebKit port is rather bad21:04
tadzikthat'd be an interesting experience21:04
tworazor crosswalk21:04
tworazsmoku: phonegap is a HTML5/js framework, we'd need a good runtime first21:07
tworazsomething that has much better peformance than QWebKit or jolla gecko port21:08
M4rtinKI'we talked with a few people using Phonegap21:09
M4rtinKand they told me their experience with it was not very positive21:09
smokutworaz: they have their own, performance tuned html runtime21:10
* artemma can hardly understand how one could make a good HTML5 framework with a browser that takes seconds to scroll a Google Doc (or name any other complex page you fancy)21:10
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smokuQWebKit sucks - we know it.  but Digia promised QWebEngine (blink based) in Qt 5.421:11
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artemmaWas Jolla thinking to switch to WebKit/Engine? :/ I thought they are fixed on mozilla stuff21:11
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* smoku was sure they burned on embedding gecko in Maemo5 and they wouldn't repeat that mistake21:12
tworazQWebKit is a dead end21:13
tworazQt port was removed from upstream webkit21:13
tworazso I don't think it's a good idea to invest in it, QWebEngine sounds like a better option21:14
tworazit's actually possible to compile chromium for sailfish21:14
tworazI did it for the emulator21:15
* artemma hopes process isolation will come at some point. Any browser is sure to be resource intensive at times. /me hates when it freezes the whole system, especially ability to swipe browser off to task manager21:15
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gogeta /j #sailfish-porters21:20
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smokudoes anyone know whether I can grab volume keys in SDL app, like on Maemo?21:23
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lukedirtwalkerDamn Slider why u no show valueText :@22:01
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M4rtinKlast response is from January, nothing since then :)22:18
M4rtinKfeel fry to push it, maybe someone finally notices it :)22:18
M4rtinK*feel free22:18
M4rtinKBTW, I would also like to use the volume keys like on Maemo for zooming the map in and out in modRana :)22:19
M4rtinKor paging in Mieru once I get to actually porting it to Sailfish :)22:19
coderusM4rtinK: isnt modrana using quick?22:20
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smokuM4rtinK: yeah! +122:22
M4rtinKcoderus: you can use it in QtQuick ?22:24
coderusimport Sailfish.Media 1.022:24
coderusand use MediaKey {}22:25
smokuM4rtinK: I dodn't know volume is used for shutter in camera.  then there is definitely an API for this use case.  we may need to go for the formal "make API available" request.  like
M4rtinKoh, nice! :)22:25
M4rtinKcoderus: thanks! :)22:26
M4rtinKcoderus: then it should be easy to add to modRana :)22:26
coderusthere is key property for key codes, you can use Qt.Key_VolumeUp for example22:27
coderusand onPressed / onReleased22:27
lukedirtwalkercoderus: Thanks :) can use this as well. I've looked into the audio player myself and never realized I can use it as well22:27
coderusbut it probably require import org.nemomobile.policy 1.022:27
M4rtinKsmoku: sure, definitely a good candidate for an API request22:28
coderuswith following:
coderusand then you can set enabled: keysResource.acquired to MediaKey22:28
M4rtinKBTW, I've learned how to handle failed imports & how to load a fake module instead22:28
M4rtinKwithout the application blowing up22:29
coderususe component in sove variable and read error22:29
lukedirtwalkeryaou can also look into AudioPlayer.qml There they use a lot of MediaKeys22:29
coderusdoesn't losd component to page property :)22:29
coderusin some variable*22:29
M4rtinKusing the same technique the API should be actually safe to use even for Harbour :)22:30
M4rtinKcoderus: exactly :)22:30
coderusM4rtinK: afaik Sailfish.Media and org.nemomobile.policy are not allowed at the moment22:30
coderusbut you can load it brom b64 :)22:30
M4rtinKcoderus: plus for location I have a FakePositioning element, so everything works as usual even if there actually is no QtPositioning module installed :)22:31
coderusloadComponent(btoa("base64")) ,+ voila :)22:31
coderusM4rtinK: why not to add positioning to application depends? :D22:31
M4rtinKcoderus: well, I think as long as the app does not blow up if it is not present22:31
M4rtinKcoderus: I think it would be a good argument if you wanted to argue with them :)22:32
coderusi dont understand what you mean :D22:32
M4rtinKcoderus: well, I have the Fake mostly for running on desktop Linux22:32
coderusokay  :)22:32
M4rtinKwhere Positioning might not be installed22:32
coderusreasonable now22:32
M4rtinKregarding the allowed/unallowed API22:33
M4rtinKmy interpretation is that as long as the application works with reduced functionality when the API is not available22:33
M4rtinKit should be allowed in22:33
coderusyou mean to harbour?22:34
M4rtinKtheir interpretation might be different (like but-we-want-to-just-use-a-regexp-to-do-the-QA)22:34
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coderuswhat  the reduced functionality you mean?22:35
M4rtinKsay media key presses not doing anything in the app22:35
M4rtinKbut the app running otherwise normally22:35
coderusimho if you want to make it working you should make hacks to make it working in all cases :)22:36
M4rtinKwell it would work :)22:36
coderusand there is nothing about harbour qa22:36
coderusi can't make same for mitakuuluu :(22:36
M4rtinKif they remove the API you would still need to update it in Warehouse so you would also push the update to Harbour, etc.22:37
coderusthere are many hacks not just unallowed qml imports :D22:37
M4rtinKstill I think this will happen sooner or later22:37
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M4rtinKthat developers would need to solve that22:37
coderusM4rtinK: sure22:37
coderusthere are many unfinished apis22:37
M4rtinK* they can submit an application to Harbour but with limited functionality22:37
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M4rtinK* or to Warehouse with full functionality22:38
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coderusas rpm sideloading "allowed" you can publish lite version to harbour and make button upgrading to full version :)22:38
M4rtinK* or a third option: making it fail gracefully if the unualowed-APIs are removed22:39
M4rtinKand I wonder what will Harbour QA say about the third option22:39
M4rtinKyeah, LOL :D22:39
M4rtinK"Download the installer/wizzard from Harbour" :D22:39
M4rtinKI think that might work surprisingly well :D22:40
coderusM4rtinK: they can say nothing, because regexpvfinished with no errors, your application cpu and memory usage is okay and it's not crashing22:40
M4rtinKyou could even ditch any bundling like this22:40
coderus=> everything okay for harbour qa22:40
M4rtinKyou could just publish a harbour-mitakuuluu-installer22:41
smokuthat's what I suggested for Warehouse - that we should have Warehouse-installler in Harbour ;-)22:41
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M4rtinKwhich would just install libmitakuuluu, mitakuuluu-core, mitakuuluu-gui, mitakuuluu-theme & mitakuuluu-doc22:42
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M4rtinKnice and clean :)22:43
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