Tuesday, 2014-08-05

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diverseHello, I want to install sailfish on my samsung galaxy S3 i747. Would it be compatible with that particular derivative of the S3? If so, how do I get started?00:20
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coderushow to force connection dialog to show?05:39
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chriadamcoderus: https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugin-connectivity/ might be helpful05:43
chriadambut I don't maintain that code anymore, and don't know what it does precisely ;-)05:44
chriadamISTR that performing a DNS query when there are no active sessions, will trigger the dialog05:44
chriadambut for more information you'd need to ask lpotter or amccarthy05:44
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coderuschriadam: thanks :)05:49
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amccarthycoderus: /usr/lib/qt5/bin/qdbus com.jolla.lipstick.ConnectionSelector / com.jolla.lipstick.ConnectionSelectorIf.openConnection wlan05:49
coderusit's sad QNetworkSession::open() doesn not trigger dialog05:49
coderusamccarthy: yup. added that code to my project :)05:50
coderusdbus working, thanks you both :)05:50
chriadamcoderus: I think it's a problem with the Qt API.  in some cases, you never want any networking calls to trigger opening a dialog (eg, if you're a daemon / background process).  I think the Qt APIs lack that concept, although I don't know them well enough to be certain05:50
coderuschriadam: at least in harmattan this concept worked good :)05:51
tbron harmattan there were a few ugly corner cases05:52
tbrI remember getting stuck in a loop of pop up "turn network on?" notifications on an airplane when making the mistake to open e.g. twitter...05:52
coderustbr: yeah :D05:53
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coderusnow QObject::connect(session, SIGNAL(opened()), reg, SLOT(startRequest())); and openConnectionDialog() after that working fine :)05:54
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NaranekIs debugging working on the Qt Creator? I've read some messages that say that it isn't, but they've been written some time ago.06:05
coderusNaranek: should work now fine06:07
* coderus didnt used debug for a while, but remember jake9xx and kaltsi fixed it06:09
Naranekthanks! I'll take a stab at it then :)06:10
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coderusha, fast disable - enable wlan turns wlan icon at lockscteen into greyed state, settings showing wlan enabled, but it wont ever connect06:14
coderusonly smooth disable and enable wlan can fix that :)06:15
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coderusis there any aliendalvik maintainer or someone who can proove some bugs?06:26
coderusi can't record video from android whatsapp06:26
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coderuslol wtf!????06:32
coderusQStandardPaths::writableLocation(QStandardPaths::MoviesLocation refer to /home/nemo/.cache/harbour-mitakuuluu2/harbour-mitakuuluu2/Videos06:32
coderusQStandardPaths::writableLocation(QStandardPaths::PicturesLocation refer to /home/nemo/Pictures06:33
coderususe QStandardPaths, do not use absolute paths.06:33
coderusfirst fir your apis06:33
Aarddid you mess with xdg configuration?06:34
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coderusme not06:34
coderusit's same for everybody06:34
coderuscheck with yourself06:34
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tbrcool sailfish is now single-stack ipv6 http://pastebin.com/0bmbLqN106:50
tbrhint: there is an IPv4 DHCP server that it should have picked up06:50
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lainwir3dtbr: what does it means ? single-stack ipv6.06:53
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tbrlainwir3d: it means that it only uses IPv6 and doesn't even have a local, nor a default IPv4 route06:54
lainwir3dwhat if your wireless network doesn't support ipv6 ?06:55
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tbrlainwir3d: either this bug is caused by IPv6 being available or the phone would end up in an L2 only connection state06:57
* tbr configures an IPv4 address manually to see if that helps06:58
lainwir3doh, you means that's not a correct behavior ? haha06:58
lainwir3dI didn'd get it06:58
tbr06:50:49< tbr> hint: there is an IPv4 DHCP server that it should have picked up06:59
lainwir3dall right, I guess I'm still not enough awake06:59
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matrixxcan someone throw me the actual font sizes for Theme.fontSizeSmall, medium, large and extralarge?07:36
matrixxjust for designing purposes, not gonna hardcode anything :P07:36
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matrixxI could of course print them, but all I have with me right now is iPad :P07:39
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Nicd-would be nice if the silica qml stuff was on github07:40
lainwir3d_really_ nice07:41
tbrnobody put it there yet? but it's LGPL or BSD?07:42
Nicd-I searched for it a while ago and didn't find07:42
* tbr ponders what's a good source for that, probably the files on the device respectively an RPM?07:43
tbror is it even in the gpl dump?07:43
walokrawhere's the gpl dump?07:45
tbron my server images.formeego.org07:45
walokrawhy doesn't jolla host it, have link on sailfishos.org?07:46
tbru8 is still missing as I'm waiting for carsten to be back from vacation07:46
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tbrNFC, but given that you had to _snail_ mail them and they would _snail_ mail you a DVD, this is a massive improvement in my book07:47
tbralso Jolla was supposed to publish all md5sums of the tarballs they uploaded to my server, to make this traceable07:48
tbrnot sure if they did07:48
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SK_workSilica QML might be BSD, but fontsizexxx is coded in Theme, and not bsd07:50
matrixxmight be an idea to print all the constants and make a reference in tjc07:54
matrixxat least I would find it beneficial in design purposes07:55
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matrixxI could do it in the evening while I need to print out the font sizes anyway07:56
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tbrSK_work: interesting, looking at package contents there are also QML files without license header :-/07:58
SK_workmatrixx: don't forget that you will print constants for the Jolla, constants are a factor of DPI and screensize07:58
SK_worktbr: inside silica ?07:58
SK_workhum ...07:58
tbrSK_work: this means the upload will be incomplete07:58
tbrI just unpacked "sailfishsilica-qt5-0.11.94-10.29.1.jolla.armv7hl.rpm"07:58
matrixxSK_work: ah, sure, I'll make a note they apply only in jolla07:59
SK_worktbr: :/07:59
tbrI will replace all such files with a symlink to a file explaining that it's missing due to unclear licensing07:59
lukedirtwalkermatrixx: for which design purposes will they help?07:59
tbrand will then file a TJC item07:59
tbrshould put that also on the next agenda for community meeting08:00
matrixxlukedirtwalker: to make UI designs08:00
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lukedirtwalkerbut why? I mean you shouldn't rely on those values08:00
matrixxlukedirtwalker: to see which font size would fit best for needed purposes08:00
SK_worklukedirtwalker: to do stubs08:00
SK_worktbr: +108:00
SK_worksounds good08:00
SK_worktbr: uploading to github ?08:00
tbrSK_work: yes08:00
SK_workthanks :)08:01
matrixxlukedirtwalker: I understand it's approximate, but would help at least a bit08:01
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* tbr ponders how to name the repository. sailfishsilica-qt5? or something else?08:01
lukedirtwalkerWould be much better to have the actual formula wouldn't it?08:01
tbrideas appreciated08:01
matrixxlukedirtwalker: it would, if you could extract it08:02
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SK_worktbr: how is the package named ?08:12
SK_worksailfishsilica-qt5 ?08:12
SK_workthen use sailfishsilica-qt508:12
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tbrSK_work: https://github.com/dm8tbr/sailfishsilica-qt508:40
SK_worktbr: thx08:41
tbrSK_work: also https://twitter.com/tbr23/status/49657653833134489608:41
SK_worktbr: engineering english translation file "qm" is a binary format iirc08:42
SK_workso it's normal that it don't have a license08:42
SK_workbut the translation source (ts) is not available08:42
tbrSK_work: yes, but I err on the safe side08:42
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tbrthe RPM has a license of "TBD" (sic!)08:43
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Nicd-thanks tbr!08:43
tbrNicd-: happy to serve08:43
tbrSK_work: unless either Jolla (the company, or a legally mandated representative) states so OR the files will be explicitly marked by either addition of headers or a text file listing them and explaining their license, they will not be uploaded by me.08:45
coderusso, if rpm can't pass QA, other rpm carrying and sideloading first rpm will be rejected too?08:45
SK_worktbr: +108:45
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lukedirtwalkerHow can I detect when the user quits, before the aboutToQuit() signal? (I still need the event-loop)09:23
SK_worklukedirtwalker: qml app ?09:24
SK_workmaybe connect QQmlEngine::quit signal to something else ?09:24
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lukedirtwalkerSK_work: C++ Qml yes09:24
SK_worklukedirtwalker: sailfish ?09:25
SK_workso use QQmlEngine::quit signal ? Don't know if it works since it might also be sent when event loop is being destroyed09:25
SK_work(or just befoer ?)09:25
lukedirtwalkerSK_work: yeah of course Sailfish.09:25
lukedirtwalkerwill try09:25
SK_worklukedirtwalker: in sailfish, you need to disconnect QQmlEngine::quit09:26
SK_workbecause it's autoconnected09:26
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lukedirtwalkerwith what?09:27
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SK_worklukedirtwalker: with qcoreapplication::quit (it seems)09:30
SK_workbut cannot find source :(09:30
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lukedirtwalkerSK_work: doesn't seem to work09:43
SK_workwhat are you trying to achieve ?09:43
lukedirtwalkerThe problem is I have to wait for a callback when I quit. (Spotify session logout triggers a callback that you are actually logged out, and for this I have to wait)09:47
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SK_worklukedirtwalker: I see09:48
SK_worklukedirtwalker: fire a QEventLoop when aboutToQuit ?09:49
lukedirtwalkerSK_work: hehe yeah that would also be a possibility09:50
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walokrais harbour guys still on holiday or just with long queue?12:01
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Nicd-walokra: something new coming from you? :)12:05
walokrajust minor update to ampiaiskala (cover page). doing also haikala update12:06
nazaninwalokra: when did you submit the app?12:07
walokrahaikala has greater possibilities for better features12:07
walokranazanin: sunday night so I'm just impatient :)12:07
nazaninwalokra: it was approved yesterday12:08
nazaninwalokra: not in Store?12:08
walokranazanin: hmm, ampiaiskala? harbour shows status QA and no notification. thus haven't checked in store12:09
nazaninwalokra: give me a sec to check12:09
walokrait got couple more installs and likes, so it would explain those12:10
nazaninwalokra: spotted the problem, it'll be fixed soonish :) thanks for reporting it,though12:11
walokranazanin: great12:11
tbrSK_work: tbh, I'm looking for a business case that would enable working on the advanced bits. A simple messaging only client should be trivial using haze/libpurple in case of Sailfish. Just like it worked on N900 and N9/N950.12:17
SK_worktbr: whiteboard12:17
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SK_worktbr: the whiteboard is a really nice feature, and it would work even better on a touch screen imo12:18
tbrSK_work: yes, but it's not a business case. A company wanting to roll this out and willing to invest €€€ would be a business case.12:19
SK_worksorry :(12:19
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SK_workno buisness case here :(12:19
tbrSK_work: it's good to know that people are interested regardless, but the big cheese would be the thing.12:21
tbrSK_work: if there would be really a _lot_ of people one could consider crowd funding, but I guess that's unlikely.12:22
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lukedirtwalkertbr: Image format which supports Theme, so that screenshots for SailfishOS would look like installed, but tha probably isn't a big money bringer either :P12:27
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tbrlukedirtwalker: this is the context https://plus.google.com/u/0/111101795166699165422/posts/W9eMeobBhbo12:28
lukedirtwalkeroh okay12:31
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walokraNicd-: did you have some suggestions about sailimgur or other apps?12:36
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Nicd-walokra: when uploading in sailimgur, what does "add to gallery" mean?12:41
Nicd-also it would be nice to be able to rotate images and create/delete albums12:41
walokraNicd-: add to gallery = to user submitted12:42
Nicd-yeah, it could be clearer12:42
Nicd-I thought I was adding to some gallery of my own12:42
walokrayep, it's not so clear but it's worded like in android app12:43
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Nicd-also, rotated images are uploaded in the wrong orientation12:43
Nicd-scratch that12:44
Nicd-just the preview is shown in the wrong orientation in the app12:44
walokrayep, that's also confusing12:44
Nicd-where did you get the side drawer from btw?12:45
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walokraadapted from communi iirc12:46
walokraplanning to change it to something better12:46
walokraNicd-: thanks for the suggestions. made some github issues for myself :)12:53
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coderusso, if rpm can't pass QA, other rpm carrying and sideloading first rpm will be rejected too?13:50
nazanincoderus: what do you mean?13:50
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coderusi mean harbour13:51
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nazanincoderus: what I didnt understand quite well was about 'other rpm carrying and sideloading first rpm'13:52
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smoku_Estimated hours for approval  4814:04
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smoku_Flappy submitted  4 days ago14:05
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coderussmoku_: 4 days ago was weekend14:06
coderusand 3 days ago was weekwnd14:06
coderusnazanin: have two rpm: full version contains forbidden api and light version contains only allowed api14:07
smoku_coderus: srsly?  I know... ;-)14:07
coderuslight version have upgrade to pro button installing first rpm14:07
coderussmoku_: nobody working and looking your flappy at weekend14:07
coderusnazanin: and it seems light rpm will be rejected too, because it contains rpm with forbidden api14:08
nazanincoderus: yes14:08
coderuslol then :)14:09
nazanincoderus: if it allows sideloading of untrusted softwares,then yes,it'll be rejected14:09
coderusi will never publish mitakuuluu to harbour :D14:09
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nazanincoderus: le lol :D14:10
coderusi will try to fool QA and so, but it seems to be never accepted :D14:10
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Nicd-don't try to fool QA :(14:10
tadzikwhat kind of forbidden API is it using?14:11
korhm. my mitäkuuluu won14:13
kor't stay connected14:13
kornor registered, it keeps requiring registration every few boots14:13
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coderustadzik: dbus services, ngfd events, profiled configs, mce patterns, setuid root, setgid privileged, scriptlets in rpm %pre and %post, and tons of private QML imports :)14:14
tadzikhaha, oh wow :)14:14
coderuskor: try to get log for harbour-mitakuuluu2-server14:14
nazanincoderus: it'll be quite fun to write the rejection reasons for it :P14:15
coderus"Application contains none of allowed parts, except graphic elements" :D14:18
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coderuskor: ah, i see where the bug can hides14:22
coderuskor: actually you can ignore registration window and restart application14:22
coderusi'll try to fix it soon14:22
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smoku_it makes very hard to get bigger audience for any non-trivial application14:27
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smoku_possibly the reason I keep seeing "this phone is crap, as there are no good apps for it"14:28
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coderussmoku_: aliendalvik solves this issue for Jolla :D14:32
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tadzikpeople are so concerned with apps as if they indeed need an ad delivery platform rather than a fucking phone14:32
smoku_coderus: then there is "so, why exactly do I want this phone? I can run android apps on my android phone already" ;-)14:33
numo_i love that i have no apps (and therefore no distractions other than calls, SMS and email) on the Jolla :)14:34
smoku_tadzik: people wanting "just a fucking phone" use nokia 6610 ;-)14:34
tadzikwell, I want a fucking phone which has maps, a media player and that I can go geocaching with :P14:34
tadzikbut I don't need an app for every company in the world, which is presumably super useful for all the people around14:35
artemmaIMHO, Jolla's [semi-]official point of view is 1) it's about cool UI innovations, you want to have 2) Operators/manufacturers (not end users) need customizations not possible with Android14:35
smoku_numo_: typical reasoning of disabled people... "It's not that I cannot do this. It's that I do not WANT to do this."14:35
tadzik(rather than customizations not possible with Sailfish)14:35
artemmaI was actually asking same question several times when doing Jolla programming courses (so, from ones already motivated ppl). Reason number two seems to be a couple of UI innovations (swipe to task manager being most important), reason number one - image of a "free" OS14:36
tadzikfrankly, I don't see the freeness as an advantage, or rather: it does not seem to be any more free than, say, android14:38
artemmaIMHO, real Jolla customers are operators/manufacturers, not the end users. End user satisfaction is just one good argument when doing sales to operators/manufacturers and certainly such satisfaction should be above some minimally acceptable level14:38
smoku_so, where is the community's place in this picture?14:39
tadzikjust behind the big sign saying "Stay out!"14:40
smoku_free QA workforce, you don't have to pay for?14:40
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artemmasmoku_: where is developer community place in iOS world? If you take into account that costs of running iTunes are roughly equal to amount of money Apple gets from sales ;)14:40
smoku_artemma: I don't know iOS world at all14:41
smoku_but judging from the content of the topic of this channel, SDK takes important place in this picture14:41
artemmaI guess Jolla listens to the community more than older folks and adapts faster. That's it14:41
artemmathere is also this "free OS image" that helps promoting within geeks and their friends. Jolla could utilize it more though, it seems [to me] it fades out over time14:42
smoku_same trick Google pulled with AOSP?14:42
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artemmaI don't think Google listened to community that much.. thouh maybe I just didn't watch the area14:43
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smoku_what kind of "listening to the community" do you mean?14:44
artemmaAnd Google's "free OS" image was squarly targeted at manufacturers (and a bit to operartors), not to end users like Jolla14:44
smoku_that Google didn't list a "community manager" position on their payroll?14:44
artemmasmoku_: I mean Together portal and frequent OS update releases regarding to what users scream about (limited by abilities certainly)14:45
tadzikthat's a good point14:45
artemmaand then Jolla does use code contributed by ppl for free (don't know how much though)14:45
tadzikwell, it's based on nemo, and nemo is an actual open source project14:45
artemmaI mean mer and nemomobile are free projects, but not sure how much code there is being written while on Jolla's salary14:46
smoku_yes... people like to be listened to...14:46
smoku_one don't have to react on, but should at least listen... ;-)14:46
locusfartemma: the amount of code can be seen by watching nemomobile project, they write a lot of code there daily14:47
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artemmalocusf: that's what I mean by "listening to community" too - community can contribute code directly. Just not sure how much of those "community contributions" are actually done by jolla engineers14:48
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smoku_tadzik: right... closing the bootloader shows where exactly is that "Stay out!" sign14:50
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tadziksmoku_: well, I have heard (assumed?) that it's due to hardware andor licensing issues of sorts14:51
* artemma wonders how much things would be different if Sailfish OS was actually 100% open (think abt all Sailfish things being donated to nemomobile). Certainly biz model would have to be significantly different, but THAT would play "free OS image" card to maximum for all geeks out there14:51
artemmakind'a like N900 did14:51
tadzikI think they'd rather have the current business model rather than the free image for geeks14:52
tadziknot like N900 actually had everything open for the geeks14:52
tadzikthey're rewriting some of the bits up to this day14:52
smoku_artemma: there would be no SailfishOS.  noone would fund 100% open source project.  there is no money, thus ROI in it.14:52
artemmaJolla is a startup and a business, they got to make money or at last show for the bigger guys a reason to buy whole company. There may or may not be a way to do it when doing things 100% open14:52
smoku_artemma: experience of many companies that tried before shows there is exactly 0 profit in open source model.   also, common sense leads to that too14:54
artemmaa "free OS image" could be a sales argument, but maybe not big enough14:54
* artemma himself cares more about "open OS" than about "free OS"14:54
locusfoh free as in price?14:55
artemmanot really, as an end user I will buy a device anyway14:55
locusfsure Sailfish can be installed for free on selected android dedvices14:55
artemmaor maybe buy an OS if it's cheap14:55
tadzikI dream of a world where I can buy an OS-free device and install whatever I want on it14:56
tadziklike with computers14:56
locusftadzik: +114:56
artemmathat is again about that buyers and users of Jolla products are actually very different people with the different interests ;)14:56
tadzikwould be probably totally possible if not for all the bloody patents on GSM hardware14:56
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artemmaHard to satisfy both, you got to prioritize14:56
smoku_MacOS X was cheap, yet most people pirated it rather than bought it.14:56
artemmasmoku_: you have any stats or at least rumors behind it?14:57
* artemma has never heard of anybody pirting MacOSX since upgrade costs fell to under $30 and it became super-easy to buy it right from the Mac14:57
smoku_artemma: comment counts under OSX torrents on piratebay.  talks with my mac friends.14:58
artemmaok, thanks, now I've heard this rumor14:58
artemmabuying 1.5-3K laptop and skipping $30 on OS upgrade.. interesting14:59
artemmathough updates are free since last update, aren't they?14:59
smoku_makes me wonder too14:59
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smoku_but of about 20+ Mac people I know, only 2 was buying their OS upgrades14:59
smoku_rest just "circulated" the DVD15:00
smoku_"I alrady paid so and so for the hardware - OS upgrade should be given"15:01
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smoku_artemma: looks like we live in extremely different environment and values ;-)15:03
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artemmano, I think it's a common point of view15:03
artemmaI just thought that price and ease of online upgrade overweight15:03
artemmaapparently not, well, then free OS upgrade price will15:04
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smoku_artemma: I mean you do not know anyone skimping on OSX price, and I could count people buying it on fingers of half of my hand15:05
artemmamy stastics base is small, not many other mac users around15:05
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Nicd-I did actually buy all my OS X upgrades because they were affordable. can't say the same for all my windows licences...15:06
smoku_my stats could be skewed, by fact that most of my "osx friends" moved to macs from Linux or FreeBSD15:06
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smoku_and the activity under torrents with latest osx releases was comparable to latest game of thrones ;-)15:08
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smoku_getting back on track...15:10
smoku_with all the work on SDK and distributing and promoting SDK...15:10
TMavicaMorpog_PC: ping15:10
smoku_it's discouraging for devs writing things more complicated than simple hello-world qml game, to hit the wall of distribution15:12
smoku_and doing actually cool stuff requires reaching to forbidden APIs15:12
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smoku_like coderus' extremely cool stuff needs loads of these forbidden apis15:13
Morpog_PCTMavica, sorry closed window and lost your messages15:13
tadzikyeah, that's fantastically bad15:13
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tadzikthat's what I meant by the community behind a "Stay Out" sign15:14
tadzik"hey, I built something fantastic that many users need!" "cheater, boo!"15:14
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tadzikI know, the reason is probably "those APIs are not stable and the app may break after an OS upgrade, so no"15:15
TMavicaMorpog_PC: check message, thx15:15
smoku_tadzik: Ubuntu solved this ages ago... "Application A, B and C will not work with the release you are about to upgrade to. We need to remove these before upgrading your OS. Do you want to proceed?"15:17
tadzikyeah, that'd be awesome15:18
tadziknever seen that in ubuntu, perhaps I don't use funky app s:)15:19
smoku_standard behavior when using PPA repos15:20
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smoku_not only Ubuntu. I'm using rpmfusion with my Fedora, and I have this kind of message every few days - uninstalling VirtualBox because of upgrading kernel from @updates, and missing vbox modules yet in @rpmfusion ;-)15:22
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smoku_it means - stop update today and wait a day or two until rpmfusion catches up :)15:22
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NaranekI need a clock with seconds in the application cover and I'd like to code it so that it only changes when the cover is in view. It seems that Cover.Active would be the key, but all the examples use CoverBackground.16:24
NaranekHas anybody actually used Cover? Even the Qt Creator says Unknown component :D16:25
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coderuswhere did you saw that Cover.Active? :D17:24
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Naranekcoderus: https://sailfishos.org/sailfish-silica/qml-sailfishsilica-cover.html17:25
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coderusit seems have typo17:30
coderustext: active ? "I'm active!" : "I'm sleeping"17:30
coderusnot status == active17:30
coderusand qtc dont know about Cover type is okay17:31
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Naranekok, but how do I use it with CoverBackground? is it cover: Cover { CoverBackground {} }17:32
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Naranekat least it seems to compile with that solution.17:35
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iekkusmoku, waiting for check from legal17:48
coderusNaranek: no difference17:51
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faidenMy bluetooth icon under settings next to the Data trafic icon vent missing today ..19:41
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diverseis this the place to ask how to install sailfish on an existing phone I have?20:20
lukedirtwalkerdiverse: no sailfishos-porters is20:21
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smokuis there a way to set cover for SDL application?21:08
smokuiekku: thx 4 info21:08
smokufaiden: Settings -> System -> press&hold 'Bluetooth' -> Add to favorites21:09
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smokufaiden: or, if you want the BT toggle there: Settings -> System -> Bluetooth -> press&hold 'Bluetooth' toggle -> Add to favorites21:11
faidenwow tnx smoku a new function I had not know about, odd that It only works with ethe BT icon thou. +1 for you21:13
Turskifaiden: works with many others too21:13
faidenohh it worked with everything ?D21:13
smokufaiden: it works with a lot of things. i.e you can add an application setting to favs ;-)21:13
faidennice ty =D21:13
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smokuit's a very obscure feature. most people get aware of it the same way you did - when they misteriously loose BT fav ;-)21:14
faidenhehe yea I recon they do . I was like Wtf what did I do now!21:15
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alinhi... I am using the general email... imap4... and a lot of my folders are listed twice of three times21:36
alinis this some known issues?21:36
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smokuis there equivalent to DocumentGalleryModel in sailfish?22:22
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tadzikheh, if only more apps actually had settings in, well, settings :P22:31
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smokutadzik: forbidden in harbour22:33
tadzikthat's pretty fucking pointless if you ask mk22:33
tadzikunless it22:33
tadzikit's the case of an "unstable API" again22:33
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tbrtadzik: IIRC it had something to do with APIs or scripts that were not 'ready for use'. Don't remember the details.23:15
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