Thursday, 2014-11-27

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K4-tQuick question: Is sailfish OS going to seperate itself with a phone specific and tablet UI?00:46
K4-tOr is it going to become sort of like android where the UI is mostly the same, except rescaled?00:47
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tadzikmockups on the indiegogo page seem to indicate the latter00:57
K4-tI really hope they do that. It's going to make app development easier for a beginner like myself. Thanks for the answer!00:59
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ra1n_105good evening02:43
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ra1n_105where do i request a feature regarding a sailfish system app / is there a possibility to contribute code?02:47
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salyavinTo request features if for Jolla I'd go to   You can get a dev kit from
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stephghappy jolla day to me!07:53
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stephg1 year anniversary for jolla, mumble years anniversary for me ;)07:56
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Armadillocongratz ;D07:56
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xkr47stephg \o/07:58
xkr47stephg, have you written any apps for your jolla?07:58
stephgonly packaged a couple of ambiences07:59
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ArmadilloI recently discovered this ambience:
Armadilloit's great :)08:02
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Bysmyyr_my dad made ambiance by taking black photo. It is very nice08:04
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entil that looks cool08:04
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zGrrmoin :)08:15
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Armadillomoin zGrr08:27
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zGrrehlo Armadillo08:30
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SK_workRavenholmDX: your code won't work08:49
SK_workif your issue is not fixed, it is simple: you put everythign inside a Component {} entry08:49
SK_worka Component {} encapsulates something that can be created dynamically, your code actually do nothing, as everything inside component won't be created08:50
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DuckZhello, anybody knows if connecting a usb or Bluetooth joystick could work on either the Jolla phone or the tablet?08:55
DuckZ(plz reply to King_DuckZ if I get disconnected)08:56
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cos-joys of USB host mode
cos-did the tablet have it?09:15
StskeepsOTG, but no guarantees on functionality09:15
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tbrStskeeps: is it really the "omg it's a horrible brain dead standard" OTG, or a switcheable host/slave port?09:18
meklu"why not both?"09:19
mekluif the "horrible brain dead standard" is cheaper and more common, I've got some bad news for you09:19
tbrmeklu: that's completely besides the point09:19
tbrmeklu: what I'm saying is, that it's important to understand what sort of ports there are, as there are many different ways to do USB hardware09:20
tbrI'm not saying "this needs to be done this way", it's exactly the opposite "so which one is it"09:21
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Stskeepstbr: 'able to plug in a usb stick with a otg cable'09:23
urjamanI'm pretty sure this has been asked before; but re:OTG, why wasnt the jolla usb phone wired for OTG?09:23
urjaman*phone usb09:23
RaYmAniirc usually the thing OEMs mess up is not connect ID pin properly to USB Port (forcing it always into device mode) or forgetting to hook up 5v to the usb port, causing host mode to not actually work09:23
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Stskeepstbr: 'and it showing up as sdb'09:25
Stskeepstbr: i don't have enough details so09:25
tbr*nod* still could be either or09:25
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tbrurjaman: yes, it's been asked before and IIRC the answer was that it would have been yet more modifications and the ODM just couldn't fit them into the design on top of all the other things like the ToH interface09:26
tbrurjaman: we know that the port can do also host mode, but the ID pin is N/C, so the whole OTG logic needs to be shorted in kernel and replaced with manual switching through sysfs. there were several attempts, but none successful so far. If someone wants to try, happy to point out the directions.09:27
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tbrsuggested level of proficiency: kernel hacker09:28
kimmolitbr: that is one reason why i didn't look further...09:28
urjamanthanks for the answer; i've read the status of the hardware already but found no reason as to why so stupid09:28
tbrurjaman: it's not stupid, it's "launch a product or go bancrupt", you sacrifice certain things along the way. by experience host mode is used by only a few people. they tend to be extremely vocal though.09:30
Stskeepsi kinda want to suggest something TOH-ish for the tablet with the otg capability09:31
tbr(same applies to the hw keyboard)09:31
Stskeepshas to be some interesting things to be done09:31
tbrI'm wondering how otg and toh would fit together09:32
Stskeepswell, i'm thinking case.09:32
Stskeepsyou're not going to switch microsd's that often anyway09:33
tbrmaybe if the pins would be exposed also as pads09:33
tbron the back09:33
urjamanyeah but from the user point of view it was stupid... i had a nokia 700 symbian with OTG and video out to compare to :P (and the jolla...09:33
tbrurjaman: correction, from _your_ point of view.09:33
Stskeepsso the case would enter the usb port, but i don't know..09:33
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tbrStskeeps: a pluggable connector for a back case is a tricky point of failure09:36
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tbrStskeeps: the chipset should have more USB host ports, you could consider routing one to pads on the back of the device (or side, less ideally). In addition I'd expose V-in for charging (think e.g. Qi), probably I┬▓C and a GPIO for completeness (chipset has that, see minnowmax)09:39
tbrwould make 4 + 3-4 pads09:39
Stskeepstbr: i don't disagree, but i don't think we have a chance to do that09:39
tbr*nod* was afraid so09:39
Stskeepsperhaps a plug that turns the usb port into pads?09:40
tbrthat's a decent idea09:40
Stskeepsprotective cover, etc, kind of thing09:40
tbror pads on the side next to the plugs?09:40
tbrthat could be reached by the protective cover clamping around?09:40
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Stskeepsi'm in no way an EE person :)09:40
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tbryou have a few people in house and I can supply some people if you need some help. kimmo could also help.09:41
Stskeepsbut i could easily imagine something that plugs into microsd and usb port and pad-ises them in a safe way09:41
Stskeepsand sits stable09:41
RaYmAnseperately from e.g. a case?09:42
* tbr goes to ask av500, after all they did it on their Gen10 hardware for the keyboard...09:42
RaYmAnit sounds like something you'd easily loose09:42
Stskeepswell, if it sits as safely as a usb cable and used with a dock type thing too09:42
tbrRaYmAn: if you make a cable that goes into the toh, it will break, sooner or later due to mechanical wear09:42
Stskeepsstatic electricity i'm not so sure about but..09:43
Stskeepsbut looking at the tablet i'd say it would be feasible09:44
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King_DuckZhm so the answer is "who knows"? :p09:47
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RavenholmDXI've written my first native app for Sailfish10:35
RavenholmDXwas surprisingly quick10:35
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SK_workRavenholmDX: so everything works :) ?10:36
SK_workwhat app is it ?10:36
RavenholmDXthere's one minor issue10:36
RavenholmDXlet me get the error10:37
tadzikpresumably something about zombies and gravity gun10:37
SK_worktadzik: I would prefer a portal gun and some cake10:38
RavenholmDXI get this issue when trying to play a video: [W] QPluginServiceProvider::requestService:383 - defaultServiceProvider::requestService(): no service found for - "org.qt-project.qt.mediaplayer"10:38
tadzikin this case you shouldn't go to Ravenholm :)10:38
RavenholmDXbut I read that that's specific to the emulator10:38
RavenholmDXand should be fine on an actual device10:38
tadzikhmm, I should sit back at my sqlite issue some day10:38
RavenholmDXI could be wrong, but I don't have a device to try it on yet10:39
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ArmadilloSK_work The cake is a lie!10:40
SK_workRavenholmDX: the video plays ?10:41
SK_workyes, related to emulator then10:41
RavenholmDXI added the following to my .yaml10:42
RavenholmDX  - sailfishsilica-qt5 >= 0.10.910:42
RavenholmDX  - qt5-qtdeclarative-import-multimedia10:42
RavenholmDX  - qt5-qtmultimedia-plugin-mediaservice-gstmediaplayer10:42
RavenholmDXbut didn't  seem to change anything10:42
SK_workRavenholmDX: maybe it don't work10:42
RavenholmDXI saw people with the same error online10:42
RavenholmDXwhere the video wouldn't play in the emulator10:43
RavenholmDXbut would work fine on the device10:43
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RavenholmDXemulator is missing the plugin or something10:43
SK_workphaeron ping: did you checked the lipstick-jolla-home dependencies on statefs stuff ?10:46
* phaeron is just drinking morning coffee10:46
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phaeronSK_work: it seems like an easy thing to fix, but will have to test that it doesn't screw up updates / image building11:13
SK_workphaeron: thanks11:14
SK_workI would appreciate this a lot from your side so that I could rty to build the emulator control thingie11:14
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SK_workphaeron: please also check if other statefs modules are used as dependencies11:14
phaeronSK_work: don't block on it though. force install so you can continue to work, and do tell me if you run into other such tight couplings11:15
SK_workphaeron: inded11:16
SK_workI will force install and it will be easier11:16
SK_workyesterday was more about an investigation work did in my side11:16
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kimmoliSK_work: but... when it is ready?  :)11:27
SK_workkimmoli: when it is ready ?11:27
SK_workdon't know11:27
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kimmolimaybe then could give emulator a second try...11:28
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SK_workwho can give emulator a second try ?11:29
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RavenholmDXAnyone got a link to some sailfish design requirements?11:34
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RavenholmDXor guidelines I should say11:34
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Armadillohtere also was a PDF with design fails11:41
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Armadillobut I can't find it11:42
ln-it was not a pdf but a web page.11:43
Armadillodidn't remember the pitfalls keyword11:44
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Armadillois it linked somewhere?11:45
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Armadillohaven't found it on the Design guideline pages11:45
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ln-dunno, it really should be linked at Design guidelines to be found by anyone.11:47
urjamandevelop, last link to get into a page with the support channels, there there's a sidebar with sailfish silica library ..11:47
urjaman(that was just a statement of how i managed to find that page but yeah odd)11:48
Armadillothis is really bad hidden^^11:49
urjamanalso following the sdk uninstallation link from the main page gets you into a page with that menu11:51
urjamanand the release notes it seems11:52
urjamannot the small, but big news link ...11:52
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Armadillowell, but the pitfalls are a design topic and so it should be linked on the Design page I think11:53
Armadilloas the rest of the development pages are more code specific11:54
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kontiothp: comments?11:55
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RavenholmDXArmadillo, I was actually missing the VerticalScrollDecorator12:02
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RavenholmDXgood to know12:02
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RavenholmDXis the aspect ratio for cover images 16:9?12:12
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cos-what's the status of gstreamer 1.0 upgrade?12:17
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WntRavenholmDX: says 540x960px12:39
Wntsorry, 540x270px12:40
Wntthe other one was for screenshots12:40
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RavenholmDXcool thanks12:41
RavenholmDXthat's 16:9 which is mainly what I wanted12:41
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ilpianistammm...I can't install an APK on my jolla. I get "xdg-open found no preferred application"13:33
ilpianistaI installed F-Droid in past (say 1 month) and had no issue with that13:33
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ilpianista*maybe* it was before update 913:33
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RavenholmDXIs there any way to do scrolling truncated text?14:00
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SK_workRavenholmDX: truncated ?14:05
SK_workhow truncated ? which component ? Label, TextField ?14:05
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RavenholmDXLabel, with Fade14:08
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SK_workRavenholmDX: then sadly, you cannot see truncated fields14:18
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zGrr... I wonder whether jolla can reach $1.75M for the split screen thing.14:49
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Nc_zGrr, would be better to reach the 2m5, for the 3.5G14:49
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zGrrThat might be more difficult goal to achieve.14:53
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zGrrwill jolla tablet have swappable battery?14:54
zGrrThat would be really something.14:54
SK_workzGrr: don't think so14:57
SK_worksince they have issues selling batteries right now14:57
SK_workI don't think it will ever change something14:57
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zGrrWhat a shame.15:06
zGrrThey probably couldn't do anything about it anyway.15:06
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wtwhi, can the sailfish and mer vm images be downloaded without the SDK somewhere?15:12
wtwI'm trying to develop on openbsd15:12
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Jarewtw: there are downloadable 7z files in the sdk repos, but the installer does some vm and qtcreator configuration, so it might be easier to use an installed version as a reference at first15:37
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Jarewtw: 1410:, 1407:
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RavenholmDXIf I deploy my app as a release build15:44
RavenholmDXis the qml/code obfuscated?15:44
RavenholmDXor do I need to handle obfuscation myself?15:44
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r0kk3rzqml is never obfuscated15:53
r0kk3rzunless you try and write it in a convoluted way15:54
tadzikwhy would you obfuscate your code15:54
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r0kk3rzbecause proprietary15:58
tadzikI don't think it's making it all that harder for people who want to abuse it, it just sucks for normal people15:58
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r0kk3rzyeah its pretty silly tbh16:00
r0kk3rzmost peoples apps arent going to have ground breaking algos in them16:01
tadzikesp not in qml16:01
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RavenholmDXWell, for example16:02
RavenholmDXhow would you recommend I obfuscate an API key?16:02
tadzikha, hm16:03
tadzikput it in a .so I would16:03
tadzikthen it's not pure qml though16:04
RavenholmDXwhat does putting it in an .so give you?16:05
Dottiif anyone wants it, they could just run that .so through strings or add console.log to qml16:05
tadziksure they can, but it's easier to hide something when the source code is not available16:06
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RavenholmDXso what are my other options?16:07
FireFlyWoo, security by obscurity16:07
tadzikfrankly, I don't know how people usually hide api keys16:07
tadzikbut I suppose they're cleverly taken apart and hidden in source somewhere that users don't have access too16:08
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RavenholmDXI can force people to use their own API key16:11
RavenholmDXprobably easier16:11
tadzikRavenholmDX: what service is that for?16:12
tadzikRavenholmDX: also, I think that's what cutespotify is doign16:12
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stephgtadzik: cutespotify if you're on the openrepos version you use their key16:19
stephgyou build your own, you use your own16:19
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anYcdon't you need a premium spotify account for it anyway?16:21
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anYcRavenholmDX: I think I would add it in an include file that is not under version control and obfuscate it somehow, e.g., add a constant during runtime or only use every other char.16:29
anYcother opinion:
anYcinteresting problem16:30
RavenholmDXOne solution I've used before16:32
RavenholmDXwas generating a unique token on the client device, sending it to the server, and retrieving the API key that way16:32
RavenholmDXbut I'd rather not have to do that now :P16:33
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anYcyeah, I guess some folks would be upset regarding privacy if the app is calling home16:34
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ShapeshifterHi. Hope this is an ok place to ask: Does the jolla/sailfishos ship with an easy way of sharing stuff (files, camera pics etc.) to ssh? I.e. a sharing menu, pub-key auth and the ability to upload the files directly from the respective app? (kinda like ssh beam on android or command line sharing + a bit of bash in maemo)16:38
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stephgShapeshifter: welcome16:39
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stephgshort answer: no, but as far as that is all concerned, if you have developer-mode enabled it's easy enough to do16:41
stephgcf maemo, as you say16:41
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Shapeshifterstephg: so, does it have the concept of a "sharing" menu, like android or maemo? I would assume so, but I can't really find anything like that on google.16:41
stephgyes it does16:42
stephgyou had/have an n900?16:42
Shapeshifterstephg: yes I still have my N900 but it's starting to feel dated...16:43
r0kk3rzblergh jetlaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag16:43
stephgwelcome back r0kk3rz ;)16:43
stephgShapeshifter: you'd recognise it16:43
r0kk3rzi think ive been up since around 2am UK time16:43
stephgShapeshifter: from what I remember of fremantle and harmattan it's similar16:44
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Shapeshifterstephg: I assume I would have to write some sort of hook/plugin for that sharing menu in c++? I only ever did python development on maemo and sailfilsh also supports pyqt and all that but probably not for the natve sharing menu...16:47
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stephgShapeshifter: the python bindings for various things are still somewhat in a state of flux16:48
* stephg everyone please chime in if I'm spreading false truths!16:49
stephgShapeshifter: have you downloaded the SDK?16:49
stephg(or even looked at it?)16:49
SK_workShapeshifter: ask coderus. He knows basically all middleware16:49
SK_workI know that you need to study nemo transferengine16:50
Shapeshifterstephg: I'm test driving the sdk right now16:50
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Shapeshifterstephg: thanks for the info, looks like it shouldn't be difficult through nemo transfer engine. Although I would have to brush up on my c++ :<17:12
stephgShapeshifter: glad to have been of help and wht not brush up on your c++ ;)17:14
stephgin any case, you get full ssh access and the rest if you enable developer mode so rsync ssh et al.17:15
stephgright gotta run17:15
stephggood luck!17:15
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entilsome things in qt are deceptively easy, and thus others hard ;p17:29
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coderusmeanwhile in Jolla Store:
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SK_workcoderus: so, at the end, you validated your RPM :)17:57
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coderusSK_work: yeah, users asked me not to be a dumb, literally :D18:03
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javispedrocoderus, do you know if anyone has managed a root shell on a webos TV?18:08
coderusjavispedro: i newer saw it18:11
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javispedroit would be quite a cheap way to solve the headphones+internal speaker problem, since the javascript is basically muting the internal speakers on purpose, just so that you are forced to buy ├╝berexpensive LG speaker bar18:12
javispedroalso it searches for specific manufacturer string when pairing with bluetooth headphones18:12
javispedrohaven't seen more concentrated evil in years.18:13
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javispedrototally unlike old webos.18:13
javispedroreally tempting to just open it up and starting voiding warranties..18:14
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tbrjavispedro: before you do that, did you find time to get salmeta working with U9+? (haven't checked it in a while)18:18
javispedrotbr, yep, it's on git18:19
javispedrotbr, does OBS target U9 now?18:19
javispedrook, will push update by tomorrow then18:19
javispedrobut code is already on git18:19
tbrgreat, if I get around I'll compile me a local version18:20
tbror do other stuff and wait for your OBS update :)18:20
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Nokiuscool thanks!18:24
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Nokiuscharging time18:27
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Juice__Is it so, that XMLHttpRequest can't set cookie headers in QML?18:43
SK_workJuice__: Do think so18:46
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Juice__How am I supposed to do API calls that require cookie-based authentication?19:05
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SK_workJuice__: C++19:08
SK_worksorry :(19:08
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Juice_argh, I am so bad with c++19:09
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SK_workJuice_: writing a helper object should be ok19:40
SK_workdon't hesitate to ping me / coderus and paste your code, or send github links, so that we can check how is the C++ code :)19:40
coderusjavispedro: time to learn something new :)19:41
coderuscrap tab mention autocompletion :D19:41
coderussorry :D19:41
Juice_yeah, I probably have to try that. Can you point me to any good references?19:41
Juice_thanks for the pep talk19:46
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FloR707HI, I have a quick questions for the pros =)20:22
FloR707How do I pass on a value when a go back to a page using pop()20:23
FloR707pageStack.pop(null, {name:value}) gives me "_normalizeOperationType:330 - Warning: invalid operationType: [object Object] object"20:23
FloR707What is my mistake?20:23
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Yaniellike returning a value from a dialog?20:25
FloR707No to really. The user selected something and I would like to pass on the ID of the selected element to load content from a DB in my main page.20:27
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coderusFloR707: you can't pop with parameters20:39
coderusvar page = pageStack.push(yourPage)20:40
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coderussignal somethingHappened(..) is inside yourApp20:40
coderusfunction somethingHappenedFunction(..) is inside your current page20:41
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FloR707I did not get this entirely. Is there a function I could call wenn the pop page is displayed again? Component.onCompleted: is only active the first time the page is displayed right?21:01
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coderusonStatusChanged: if (status == PageStatus.Active) {}21:10
stephggood evening21:12
coderusnight nere :)21:15
stephgwell good night coderus ;)21:15
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stephghave you sorted your .fi travels?21:16
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coderusstephg: almost21:20
coderuswill go for making visa tomorrow21:20
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FloR707Thanks coderus, I think it works now =)21:26
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sandsmarkhow do I request new APIs for harbour?21:31
tbrI guess as often the answer is: make noise on TJC21:32
Morpog_PCand then wait for half a year :D21:32
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sandsmarkor a whole year:
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Morpog_PCwe need 1000+ Jolla employes21:34
tadzikare there that many?21:34
sandsmarkno, there should be :P21:35
Morpog_PCno, there are like 120+21:35
M4rtinKwell at least things like Python and hopefully QtPositioning are finally moving21:35
sandsmarkwell, qca/kf5 stuff like karchive shouldn't be that hard to get through..21:35
sandsmarkthey have ABI/API stability guarantees, and are pure Qt libraries21:36
Morpog_PCmaybe you can get in contact to their maintainers on #nemomobile and contribute to get them in?21:36
Morpog_PCor #mer21:36
sandsmarkI'm already in contact with plfiorini on #mer21:36
Morpog_PCask the usual people that can redirect you :D21:36
Morpog_PCah, now then you can ask him if you can help accelerating it21:37
sandsmarkI guess21:37
sandsmarkoh well, in the meantime I should bundle my own copy of KArchive, I guess21:40
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