Monday, 2014-12-15

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stephggood morning everyone08:01
Stskeepsgood morning stephg08:01
stephgword! :)08:03
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nadleyhi all08:34
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m4g0gI try to use ListModel with translatable items as in this article:
m4g0gbut I got all items with first name09:20
Armadillocan you show us the code?09:22
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m4g0gof course09:24
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Armadillom4g0g try "index" instaed of "menuView.currentIndex" at line 5009:33
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m4g0gArmadillo: works. Thx09:36
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coderuswhy not to use onCompleted: append({name: "1"; title: qsTr("Friends")}) and etc.?10:04
m4g0gcoderus: Is it better?10:05
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coderusm4g0g: you will put translated string to the model, no need to call external function for each delegate you have10:14
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m4g0gguys. who can help me with attach page?12:03
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m4g0gI have feed page with attached page. I add new one and want to have 3 pages in result: feed - new page - attached page12:04
m4g0gHow I can do it? If I use push (newPage) I get 4 pages12:04
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AcceI'm not sure what you mean by getting 4 pages though.. you mean feed -> new page -> new page -> attached page or something?13:07
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Nokiusany one interested to share a apartment (airbnb) in Brussels during FOSDEM?14:29
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Nokiusa two bedroom apartment14:31
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enzio00Is anyone here? Could I ask a few questions?15:07
chem|stenzio00: just shoot!15:08
enzio00OK! I wanted to start learning onhow to develop for Android. But I saw Sailfish OS, how different are the two OSes regarding development?15:09
sandsmarkhaving written both android-applications and sailfish apps, sailfish is a bit better to work with, imho.15:10
enzio00What my first "big" project would be to make this:  for Android, how easily could I make it for sailfish?15:11
anYchm, regarding technology, QT is available for android as well now, isn't it?15:11
chem|stquestion is what is easier to port to the other15:12
enzio00And what is QT exactly? Sorry for the noob questions...15:13
sandsmarkQt is an application framework15:14
enzio00Sorry, Qt. Is it similar too the Qt Wallets for Bitcoin?15:14
sandsmarkyou write your application with Qt, and you can run it basically everywhere (including android)15:14
Nicd-enzio00: that app was made with Qt15:15
Nicd-that is why it has Qt in the name15:15
enzio00OK, so is it easy for a beginner to learn?15:15
enzio00And if I'm on a budget whicjóh mobile would you recommend? Nokia N9?15:17
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coderusenzio00: you want to develop apps? did you developed any apps in past?15:22
enzio00Well a few in C#, not big ones, just small projects.15:23
coderusthats okay. Qt is similar. Libraries with API, just C++ instead of C#. And QML for UI.15:24
coderusso you want to develop for sailfishos?15:24
enzio00Ok thanks!15:25
enzio00I think so15:25
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enzio00But I would rather make it for android, the port it to sailfish15:25
coderusdon't start with sailfish on N9, it's bad experience15:25
coderusbetter start with sailfish emulator on PC15:26
coderusyou can buy some android phone with proper sailfishos port:
enzio00But if I want a cheap sailfish os handset what shouldI choose?15:27
anYc(when there is one ^^)15:27
enzio00What about the galaxy nexus?15:27
coderuscheck link i posted15:27
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coderusand ask about details in #sailfishos-porters channel :)15:28
enzio00Yes, that's where I saw it, but any thoughts?15:28
anYcisn't it still more expensive than the jolla?15:28
anYcah, no, jolla is back at 350€15:29
coderusanYc: well, if you can buy second hand jolla cheaper than n415:29
enzio00And what's the problem with the N9?15:30
Yanielold hw, bad driver availability15:30
Yanielsomething like that iirc15:31
coderus3.x kernel is not optimized, gfx glitches, etc.15:32
enzio00BTW Do you like Star Wars? Because I recently got into a custom saber craze. Check out these:
enzio00And thanks for the help!15:35
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cos-isn't there any 100€ discount codes around anymore?15:44
locusfI guess even the tohkbd codes are gone now15:45
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ln-toh kbd codes are valid until 24th dec.15:46
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Manohi, i have just started developing my first sailfish app16:19
Manoi have a small doubt.16:19
Manowhen i push a new page to the page stack, i am able to send some properties along with it using the properties parameter. now how do i receive it in the newly pushed page??16:20
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kontioMano: see: is the call, and in how to use, if defined in
kontiois pretty straight forward...16:24
Manothanks so much @kontio, i will lok into it.16:25
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coderusMano: properties are just being set. no magic here :)16:34
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Manoworks like a charm. i missed the declaration of the property16:38
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beidlSK_work: still want to talk about user service autostart in sailfish tomorrow?16:51
beidlI'll won't make it to the channel due to army service, but would you like to mention it?16:52
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SK_workbeidl: yep, ok for me17:04
beidlSK_work: nice. I'll try to join but I can't promise. have you read my RFC-type notes?17:06
beidland thank you :)17:06
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SK_workbeidl: nope, mind sending them to me ?17:08
beidlif you have any comments, we can work that out today17:09
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coderuspatched pininput qml to enter "12345" or "jolla" each third wrond code enter attempt :)17:23
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SK_workbeidl: I will just discuss the basis tomorrow17:54
SK_workie: what about a daemon that manages daemons17:54
beidlSK_work: great, thanks.17:54
SK_work(the systemd config files thingie)17:54
SK_workboth in term of QA and in term of dev17:54
SK_workie: what would be the problem with QA, and how would the community help providing this17:54
YanielSK_work: I like the basic idea17:55
SK_worksecurity, sandboxes, advanced stuff (like more api, wayland, tracker etc.) won't be discussed atm17:55
SK_workas I expect the daemon to stick to harbour rules ATM17:55
beidlSK_work: the daemon to handle daemons is already there, the systemd user session.17:55
SK_workbeidl: userspace UI isn't here17:55
SK_workplus, we don't want the devs to write the systemd config file17:55
beidlSK_work: exactly17:56
beidlSK_work: thats what the "trusted daemon" would be there fore17:56
SK_workthe daemon should write it, based on a template, so that there won't be any issue with systemd17:56
SK_workyep, the trusted daemon17:56
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beidlwell, most details are outlined in my proposal. I'll try to simplify and explain terminology17:58
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SK_workyep indeed17:59
SK_workyou did a wonderful work17:59
SK_workbut maybe, too much details17:59
beidlSK_work: thanks :)17:59
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beidlmaybe take on the proposal in stages, first explain the need and possible use cases. stage 2 being technical overview, etc etc18:00
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beidlalso, I figured the "trusted daemon" could become part of the compositor as "only enable by user intent" implies "the respective app window being focused"18:01
beidlso it effectively becomes part of the shell.18:01
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beidlanother benefit of this: not requiring to load libraries into another process' address space.18:02
beidlsince the compositor provides everything we need already18:02
beidl(does the drawing, is always there from a user perspective so it could provide the dbus interface)18:03
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SK_workbeidl: not a fan of putting it in compositor18:03
SK_work1. compositor is already heavy, as being a compositor AND a desktop shell18:03
SK_work2. daemons should work without having the app window being focused18:04
SK_worknot a huge fan18:04
SK_workthis trusted daemons manages daemons, not really windows18:04
SK_workeven if maybe it can later do this18:04
beidlSK_work: I'll rephrase18:04
beidla user service should only be enabled by user intent18:04
beidlenabled, not started18:04
beidland user intent implies that the window is in focus18:05
SK_workI'm not even sure18:05
SK_worka daemon could be enabled if the user want18:05
SK_worknot really "at first run" or something18:05
SK_workan app could provide the ability to run the daemon18:06
SK_workcan do so via dbus18:06
SK_workfor example18:06
Yanielusually it shouldn't be enabled without user consent anyway18:06
beidlthats why the trusted daemon provides dbus interfaces to enable/disable the service18:06
Yanielnot even at first run or whatever18:06
SK_workbut if you don't want the "private data harvesting tool" to be run when the app is first launched18:06
beidlonly the trusted daemon should be allowed to write to ~/.config/systemd/user18:06
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beidland only it should be allowed to generate a valid service unit18:06
SK_workbeidl: indeed, but I would stick to this (DBus API) alone at first18:06
beidlSK_work: seems logical18:07
Yanielhmm maybe the daemon could pop up a window saying app x requests permission for a daemon?18:07
beidlYaniel: thats the plan18:07
SK_workYaniel: not a bad idea18:07
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SK_worklet's see how it goes tomorrow18:07
SK_workand then maybe the implementation details will come18:08
Yanielie. have the dbus api and just hook it up to a dialog before letting it do anything18:08
beidlfrom an app devs perspective I write a "GUI" and a "background task daemon"18:09
beidlthe "GUI" then asks the "trusted daemon" to enable the "background task daemon"18:09
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beidlthe "trusted daemon" shows a dialog to the user18:10
beidlif the user accepts it, the "trusted daemon" generates a valid systemd unit in ~/.config/systemd/user18:10
beidlproposal in a nutshell18:12
beidlmind that the "trusted daemon" could apply resource limits as well18:12
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SK_workbeidl: indeed18:21
SK_workbut not the point for first meeting18:22
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nadleyhi all19:18
nadleyI'm trying to follow that to install all stuff to create an app but I don't understand why I need Virtualbox...
beidlnadley: the build toolchain is contained in a VM, building happens there.19:20
nadleyCan I avoid it or it will be more complicated19:20
nadleybeidl: ok so to start using virtualbox looks like the easiest way19:21
beidlnadley: the IDE is running on the host, just building happens in a VM19:21
beidlif you really want to avoid the VM you could set up a scratchbox target in a chroot19:23
nadleyhum I'll do that later when I'll be more familiar with the process :D19:23
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TemeVbeidl: do you happen to know good instructions for that for U9 SDK?20:00
TemeVI only found one for older SDKs and I hear there is some differences in those20:00
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beidlTemeV: there shouldn't be any differences20:13
TemeVMaybe I'll give it a try then some day20:13
coderusstill valid for u920:16
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coderususing it every day20:20
coderushave two chroots for u8 and u9 sdk20:21
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coderusjust need little patch to disable annoying "Do you want to start virtualbox?" message, making qtc to think build vm is always running :D20:22
TemeVcoderus: could you share that?20:23
TemeVe.g. as a comment to that post so others can find it too20:23
coderuswell, i'd like to get sources, i patched my libs with IDA Pro :D20:25
coderusTemeV: i have only x64 libs20:25
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TemeVYou really must have hated that message :D20:27
coderusi don't think libMer is closed source, but i failed to find it's sources :D20:27
coderusTemeV: it appear every time you press build/run in qtc20:27
TemeVah, of course20:28
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TemeVI can't see the comment20:34
nadleysmall question, I'm looking after this tutorial, I think I should choose the armv7hl if I want to build for the jolla ?20:34
TemeVnadley: yes20:35
nadleyTemeV: and if I choose both I can build for other targets ?20:35
nadleymay be the N9 ?20:35
TemeVwell you can add target there20:35
TemeVbut I don't know how it works with N9 and that modified version of Qt Creator20:36
nadleyTemeV: for the moment my target is the jolla so I'll only check the armv7hl20:37
kimmolinadley: the x86 target is for emulator20:38
TemeVnadley: the X86 is for the emulator if you want to use it you need to check that also20:38
TemeVcoderus: thanks20:39
nadleykimmoli: TemeV it can be usefull :D20:39
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coderusnadley: emulator is good until you have device20:41
coderusarmv7hl is ANY device with sailfish, not just jolla20:41
nadleycoderus: I have the device but may be to start using the emulator is easiest no ?20:42
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TemeVnot really20:45
TemeVdeploying is just one click in the ide20:45
TemeVit's the same for the device and the emulator20:46
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coderusnadley: if you have wifi and your pc connected to same network with device its very easy20:49
coderusif not you need to use cable. with cable it's even faster than wifi :)20:49
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salyavinTablet is not arm7hl right?20:51
Nicd-tablet is x8620:51
Stskeepsit's not, no20:51
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nadleycoderus: yes I have wifi :D21:00
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coderusnadley: its perfect then :)21:01
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nadleyshould I learn c++ or is there a way to use Python ?21:01
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coderuswell, you should learn C++21:01
coderusit's better way to write native apps21:01
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coderusyou can also use PyOtherSide + QML21:01
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nadleyok so I'll take a look to C++ but I didn't write C for years now :D21:02
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coderusit's cool21:04
coderussailfish have best developers community ever21:04
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beidlcoderus: +121:06
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blabberwould like to join the crowd, but as there is no native SDK for FreeBSD i am not sure which way to go. played around with PyOtherSide but not convinced yet.21:08
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coderusblabber: you can't use linux qtc?21:09
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M4rtinKblabber: I can only say good things about PyOtherSide :)21:09
M4rtinKblabber: it is very powerful :)21:09
coderusM4rtinK: well, it's python + QML :)21:10
M4rtinK== very powerful :)21:10
coderusyes, i mean it's not strict :)21:10
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M4rtinKblabber: BTW, you can use the Mer OBS to build stuff for Sailfish OS:
evkvirtualbox is available for FreeBSD?21:12
M4rtinKprobably not ideal for building own C/C++ application if it can't be also tested on desktop21:12
blabberevk: yepp21:12
M4rtinKbut good for building any dependencies or final package generation :)21:12
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evkblabber: I guess it'd be possible to use the image from the SDK.21:13
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coderusif you can use qtc you can build apps in chroot21:14
blabbercoderus: we have qtc in the FreeBSD ports, but i expected the sailfish sdk version to have some custom patches.21:14
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coderusblabber: i mean if you get qtc from sailfish sdk you can launch and use it?21:15
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blabberi guess i'll have to play around with the different parts a little.21:15
blabbercoderus: using the linux abi layer - maybe.21:15
coderusblabber: you need to try :)21:16
coderusif you success - you can compile21:16
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blabberyeah. i'll evaluate my options between the years.21:17
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ArmadilloI hope they bring the update this week21:20
Armadillomy GUI crashed the third time today :-/21:20
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M4rtinKwould be nice to play with it during the holidays :)21:31
Stskeepsthere's nothing like telephony errors during xmas21:31
beidlexcept for the Grinch, he'd love that21:33
M4rtinKwhat could possibly go wrong :)21:33
M4rtinKgood enough for the opt-in phase anyway :)21:33
M4rtinK"how opt-in update users saved xmas!" :)21:34
r0kk3rzi think the people still on tahkalampi wouldnt be happy with another opt-in update21:37
r0kk3rzeven if it was only opt-in for the xmas break21:37
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lbtone day I'll have to run through that and see if there's anything we can do to make it easier21:54
lbtdon't know if freebsd has bind mount and unshare though21:54
blabbernot share about unshare but freebsd has nullfs mounts which are mostly equivalent to bind mounts.21:56
blabberi guess i'll add this to my list of options to evaluate :)21:56
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King_DuckZhello, anybody knows if there's a specific preprocessor symbol to check if I'm building for sailfish?22:03
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King_DuckZor does it just define __linux__ and it's up to me to pass some ZOMG_THIZ_IZ_SAILFOSH_____ definition to the compiler^22:04
lbtit's up to you22:09
King_DuckZI see an #ifdef SAILFISHOS there... is that a default symbol?22:09
King_DuckZwhat do you mean it's up to me?22:10
King_DuckZoh sorry22:10
* King_DuckZ is tired22:10
lbtnp - there's been a bit of discussion on this and how it works at various levels22:11
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stephgchrist what a day :(23:48
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