Wednesday, 2019-02-27

*** zbenjamin is now known as Guest6458202:37
*** zbenjamin_ is now known as zbenjamin02:37
*** feodoran is now known as Guest5867504:03
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tortoisedocol: any fix for this known issue?=06:18
ViGeKeij0: It seems the installer has trouble determining your virtualbox version. Which linux distribution are you using?06:32
keithzg[m]Wait, last time around with SailfishX, the line was that selling the OS for a phone in world markets would somehow have some sort of legal repercussions (which is nonsense at least in Canada, but okay, whatever), which is why the tablet was available elsewhere but SailfishX wasn't. But now I . . . can't even buy it for my wifi-only Gemini? Ze fuck?08:50
keithzg[m]I mean at least I can just boot my Gemini into Android when I want to, so I guess I can just stick with the Community Edition, but geez, talk about shutupandtakemymoney.gif08:50
Hellekeithzg[m]: the repercussions are the USA and the FCC08:55
Hellebecause radios08:55
keithzg[m]Helle: Yeah not sure why that affects Canada, you Europeans have some very weird ideas about how things work on the other side of the Atlantic ;)08:55
Hellekeithzg[m]: I think there are some problems stemming from NAFTA related to this08:56
Hellebut it may also be that dealing with a few customers in north america, if you can't profit off of the USA is not worth it08:56
keithzg[m]Are you just frantically googling things to do with the U.S. and Canada now? There's no way that'd affect anything.08:56
keithzg[m]I mean hell, under Canadian law sales of SailfishX would be considered to happen in Europe and Canadian law wouldn't even actually apply.08:57
Hellekeithzg[m]: nah, I just know that relatively unfettered trade can lead to all sorts of problems08:57
HelleAlso wondering how Canada handles a frequency plan mismatch ?08:57
HelleLike, I know that in Canada like in Europe, the blame on using a wrong frequency is with the user, but the device manufacturer has to make it clear what the intended use is08:58
Helle(so it doesn't need to be locked down as under FCC rules)08:58
Hellebut in general, blame the FCC08:59
keithzg[m]Which certainly hasn't stopped Planet Computers from officially shipping this hardware to me, or in fact providing an official installer for SailfishOS!08:59
Hellekeithzg[m]: there are a lot of legal hassles09:00
keithzg[m]The only thing is that I'm not allowed to pay Jolla for it, which is ridiculous. (Which would provide lackluster Android support, so it's not like I'm really missing anything, I just find the whole situation baffling.)09:00
Helleand some of them can be ignored, including by shipping it seperately or not selling it, just providing it09:00
keithzg[m]Point to any actual law and maybe I'll finally believe that BS :P09:00
keithzg[m]Again though, whatever hurdles there mysteriously appear to be, sure didn't stop Planet Computers.09:01
Hellekeithzg[m]: they didn't ship it with SailfishOS09:01
Hellethey shipped it with Android09:01
Hellethe software is considered part of the radio stack ....09:01
keithzg[m]Helle: Whoa, wait, you're saying I can buy a Gemini from Jolla with SailfishX installed?!?!09:02
Hellekeithzg[m]: no, I am saying that they sell it09:02
Hellekeithzg[m]: read difference, sell vs provide09:02
keithzg[m]And the sale happens in Europe; nothing happens under Canadian law.09:02
HelleI wonder if they could just sell the Android support, otoh, I know their licensing agreement on that Android support means it has to come with the OS09:03
Hellekeithzg[m]: so just buy it with a EU credit card to a EU address ? :P09:03
keithzg[m](Big consternation about that these days in Canada, since it's how companies like Google get away with avoiding paying the Canadian government sales taxes on software and other digital media purchases)09:03
Hellekeithzg[m]: it may actually be a EU thing that the sale isn't seen as entirely under local laws09:04
keithzg[m]Helle: I mean frankly I did that for SailfishX for an Xperia, but really I just want someone to finally admit that it's because the payment processor doesn't want to sell outside of the EU for some reason.09:05
HelleLike, if I buy something in Poland, they have to pay Dutch VAT on it09:05
Hellekeithzg[m]: I wonder if that is what it is09:05
keithzg[m]That, or to get whomever at Jolla has really dumb ideas about Canadian laws to actually look at it for a second :P09:05
HelleI do know that one I used charged 4x as much for non-EU payments due to different contracts09:05
Hellekeithzg[m]: nah, they probably work on the basis that if it is not approved (EU), it can't be determined if they can sell it (overhead)09:06
keithzg[m]Helle: Again that is obviously not it since they previously *sold me a tablet* :P09:06
Hellekeithzg[m]: yes, in a different setting, each device has to be looked at individually09:07
Helleit's one of those nasty consequences of radio regs09:07
keithzg[m]But they aren't even selling a device, just software.09:07
keithzg[m]And again, none of the radio stuff matters since I already have the device.09:07
Helleand for example the FCC would be after their hides if they did that09:07
Helleso would you risk it as a company ?09:08
keithzg[m]Ehhhhhhh no they wouldn't be, not really, but anyways.09:08
Helleanyway, there can be various reasons09:08
keithzg[m]And it isn't even capable of cellular communication, which is where the actual concerns might start to be valid.09:08
Hellewifi is already a mess with them09:08
keithzg[m]Yeah, I just want someone to actually admit what the reason is09:08
Hellekeithzg[m]: then ask Jolla up front09:08
keithzg[m]Not just spew BS09:08
keithzg[m]I have many times!09:08
keithzg[m]Never gotten a response.09:09
Hellekeithzg[m]: I am just stating the reasons I have seen for other companies including ones I've worked with to not sell products (including software) in certain regions09:09
keithzg[m]Helle: Yeah, and I know enough about Canadian law to know that those vague reasons never applied to SailfishX for the Xperia, and they even more don't apply in this case.09:10
Hellekeithzg[m]: yes, but does Jolla have the lawyers to seperate that particular case out ?09:10
keithzg[m]C'mon, man. C'mon.09:10
Helleas said, the FCC will flay you if you did that same thing, wouldn't you err on caution for a tiny market like Canada09:10
keithzg[m]Clearly under your theory then they had some lawyers go over that stuff for the tablet, then, of which this would just be a subset.09:11
Hellekeithzg[m]: except different hardware, different software, different sales method09:11
* Helle note for herself to sell stuff to Canada and not the USA 09:11
Hellewell, no, to sell stuff to a subsidiary that can then sell it to Canada, let's add some safety there :P09:12
* keithzg[m] shakes his head at this weird stubbornness09:12
Hellekeithzg[m]: but it may just very well be that the payment processor is the reason, or worse, the payment processor has restrictions on what can be sold where via them (have that one happen before)09:13
keithzg[m]Helle: Yeah I'm quite certain that's the actual issue. I just wish they'd actually say it!09:14
keithzg[m]...this is all getting me quite off track though, I was just jumping back into the channel in prep for finally reinstalling the SailfishOS SDK, haha, and now I notice I've somehow misplaced my Gemini PDA, whoops09:19
keithzg[m]Huh. Really can't find it. Hopefully I just absent-mindedly left it at work. Luckily I have two other SailfishOS devices to play around with instead, heh.09:27
keithzg[m]So, completely different track: why does `pkcon update` figure that there's no updates available, but `zypper update` goes "oh hey, yeah, there's totally some updates available"?09:31
* keithzg[m] remembers this pretty much always being the case, but figures there must be some reason he just doesn't understand since he comes from Debian land rather than RPM land09:32
olkeithzg[m] (IRC), Helle (IRC): Another reason to avoid non-EU markets can be software patents.15:09
*** alistair235[m] is now known as alistair23[m]19:26
keithzg[m]ol: As previously stated, online sales are considered by Canada to have happened in whatever country the selling party is located, so that also would have zero legal effects (this is why for instance I don't have to pay sales tax on apps that I buy from Google, or albums from Bandcamp, etc). And any compliance onus is on me as the "importer" to comply and pay and etc myself (which in practice means nobody declares such19:35
keithzg[m]stuff to the government, but literally the government is scared about what the response would be if peoples' Netflix subscriptions went up, so they're not gonna touch this!).19:35
keithzg[m]ol: That being said, in a *general* sense, yeah you're not wrong, software patents are a problem! One of the big issues with all the "free trade" deals of the past decade or so is that terms "harmonizing" patent laws across countries always seem to sneak in . . .19:39
keithzg[m](And copyright, of course)19:40
Mister_Magisterany idea how can i get device codename, vendor and sailfish version in my sailfishos app?20:46
malMister_Magister: some of those you get from DeviceInfo qml item
Mister_Magistermal: thanks!21:07
malMister_Magister: check also AboutSettings in there, not sure how easily those can be used21:10
r0kk3rzgogo chenphone21:45
Mister_Magistermal: should contact them21:47
r0kk3rzTheKit did a port for chen in the past, and has a slight addiction for keyboard devices ;)21:49
Mister_Magisteri wrote to them lel21:49
TheKitI'm surely in for this21:51
Mister_MagisterTheKit: count me in21:51
Mister_MagisterVerdandiTeam surely would do it21:51
malr0kk3rz: complaining about the chipset in that is so ridiculous, all of those are fast enough for almost all uses, of course android needs quite much cpu and memory22:00
r0kk3rzmal: ikr, but thats all reviewers can say these days because all phows are the same22:02
r0kk3rzonoz chipset is a year old?! meh, who cares the device is clearly all about the keyboard22:03
TheKitagree about that, besides it is from high tier and probably would be still faster then modern middle-range22:08
malr0kk3rz: yep, most likely people buying that won't be looking at chipset as the primary criteria or camera or stuff like that22:10
keithzg[m]A sliding landscape smartphone in this dystopian modern era? Pinch me, I must be dreaming!22:14
keithzg[m]Those curved edges on the display look made for SailfishOS, too.22:18
keithzg[m]Wait, and it's an AMOLED screen and actually supports WCDMA band 4 and LTE band 66? Whoa. Certainly all the specs I care about, this F(x)tec PRO┬╣ is knocking it out of the park.22:24

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