Tuesday, 2019-03-05

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chriadamHi everyone, as mentioned last week: at this time (0800 on Tuesday) we have a meeting with any community contributors who have questions or need help.  Usually dcaliste is here, but not sure if he is available today.08:03
chriadamAnyway, if you have questions or need help, please don't hesitate to ask08:03
chriadamIf dcaliste doesn't arrive, and there are no other topics to discuss, I will leave in approx half an hour08:04
dcalisteHello chriadam and jpetrell, I hope you're both fine.08:04
chriadamHi dcaliste :-)  Yes, I hope you are well also?08:05
dcalisteI'm fine thank you.08:05
chriadamI saw that you have updated the n-q-p-e PR but haven't had a chance to check it yet08:05
dcalisteCatching up with latest development of two weeks ago, I've submitted the QtDeclarative patch upstream.08:05
chriadamYes, saw that.  I added ecloud (Shawn) to the review, as he's the QtQuick maintainer IIRC08:06
dcalisteAh, great. The suggestion from Laszlo Agocs to listen to a AboutToBeDestroyed signal is nice. I'm investigating it.08:06
dcalisteIn the meantime, the patch seems (still testing it sporadicaly) to be effective.08:07
chriadamNice.  I have no opinion on which solution would be better, so I will defer to Laszlo and Shawn here.08:07
dcalisteAbout nemo-qml-plugin-email I think I've just rebased it.08:08
chriadamah ok08:08
chriadamdid Pekka have some feedback on the last version which needed to be addressed?  or was that already done?08:09
dcalisteTwo weeks ago, pvuorela did a great job on the review, mainly on dependencies. I've addressed his remarks, adding a commit both in settings and email to separate signature related material into separated sub-packages.08:12
dcalisteI think he didn't have time yet to check the latest version.08:12
chriadamah, my bad, I thought there was something outstanding08:13
chriadamjpetrell: any chance you might have the time to do a final check and then merge/tag everything outstanding for the email signing feature?08:14
chriadamor pvuorela ^08:14
chriadamwell, I will follow up tomorrow I guess08:20
chriadamand try to merge and tag everything by Friday.08:20
dcalisteGreat !08:20
pvuorelai'll do another review round when i have some time slot. now been refactoring email a lot, though luckily different parts :)08:20
dcalistepvuorela, don't worry, I can rebase my work on whatever. I'm following closely every PR on bitbucket.08:21
dcalisteI think, the signature entries in existing code are pretty minimal.08:22
chriadamdcaliste: I think jpetrell has been looking into some sailfish-office things also, but not sure what the status of that is/was.  I think there was some zoom things which he was looking at changing IIRC08:22
dcalisteOne additional item in MessageHeaderView.qml and one in EmailComposer.qml.08:22
pvuorelalast time i had some problems getting the signing working end-to-end. some testing from others could be also beneficial.08:23
dcalistechriadam: I've seen a PR from him in silica repo about a vertical zoomable flickable. It may be related…08:23
dcalistepvuorela: I totally agree.08:23
jpetrellI am a bit running out of time this week with short week and juggling various tasks08:24
chriadamsome of that pain should be resolved from the packaging fixes (pulling in the common plugins if the gpg plugin is installed) but yes I will test on freshly flashed device soon.08:25
dcalistechriadam: about the regression tests for office, I'm able to reproduce the issue pvuorela noticed two years ago on tablet. I'm going to address them later this month (in two weeks I guess).08:25
jpetrellyeah I do sailfish-office on the side, few hours here and there08:25
chriadamoh excellent.  sadly I haven't received any offers to help from other community members thus far.08:25
dcalistechriadam: well regression tests are not the sexiest part in software devel !08:26
chriadamindeed, but a good entry point I think to start learning the contribution process, without risking breaking things08:26
dcalisteBesides, office may receive some more love with the arrival of devices with keyboards like Gemini PDA or the F(x) phone.08:27
chriadamyes, good point08:27
dcalisteIt will become interesting to have editable office documents with such device, based on latest Calligra…08:27
pvuorelai'm hoping i'd soon have a little time to spend on calligra and its integration in general. just viewing those kind of documents isn't the most polished part we have :)08:29
dcalistechriadam and jpetrell: about PGP integration, I think the next step would be to handle keys and certificate from the UI. Do you have any mockup / ideas from design team on how to do this ?08:30
dcalisteI can prepare a review on how Gnome is doing it for next week.08:30
dcalisteOr RoundCube webmail.08:30
dcaliste(Both things I'm using).08:30
dcalistepvuorela: me too, There are many minor things that can be easily fixed like error when loading document with non ascii characters in names…08:31
pvuorelathat calligra area is huge, so if there are other community folks wanting to get their hands dirty, i could advertise this chance :)08:32
chriadamwell, nothing for the pgp key discovery, yet, as far as I know.  we have basic key management UI for jolla-settings, but the area hasn't had much attention as the full requirements aren't yet known I would say.08:32
chriadamI would definitely be interested to see a summary of what e.g. roundcube offers for those flows08:33
chriadampvuorela: something to raise at the community meeting on Thursday, perhaps.  I won't be able to make it unfortunately, have an event that night08:33
pvuorelachriadam: could be indeed.08:34
dcalistejpetrell and chriadam: maybe it would be nice to ask on TJC for people to say what they would like to see handled via GUI about key / certificate handling, they may produce some mockups we can discussed.08:34
dcalisteI've seen some mockups produced already for other areas.08:35
chriadamgood point08:35
chriadamI will discuss with Joona and Martin about how to do that08:36
dcalisteIf you agree, I can prepare a question visible for cbeta only, waiting for internal approval ?08:36
chriadamthat sounds like a very good suggestion.  jpetrell ?08:37
jpetrellyeah why not :)08:38
chriadamthank you dcaliste08:38
dcalisteOk, I'll add a review of Seahorse (the Gnome program for key management) and also for RoundCube in this question. I'll ping when available.08:39
jpetrellwe do already know of many issues with our secrets ui, but currently lack project to fix them08:39
dcalistejpetrell: I understand and can help but design is not my best skill…08:40
jpetrelldcaliste: I'll try to find time to gather and send you my thoughts on email08:41
jpetrelldid design review to secrets UI side earlier, and prepared plan for original email encryption project that got later canceled/postponed08:41
dcalistejpetrell: the Mer resources merge into Sailfish that lbt discussed, and particularly the bug tracker topic would be a good place (if not confidential) to put these concerns about secret, particularly since the middle ware layer is free.08:42
dcalistejpetrell: nice, thanks. Besides, PGP encryption would be not far away after signature is in…08:43
chriadamI don't even know the status of that one (public bug tracker)08:44
chriadamtechnically, bugs.merproject.org is probably fine place, since mer is now merged into sfos08:44
chriadambut vOv08:44
jpetrellwe wouldy need better tools to track and communicate issues and improvement ideas in public08:45
dcalistechriadam and jpetrell: ah, I remember also (and will put it in the TJC question), there was a design reflexion to be done on how to link keys with contact also…08:45
jpetrelldcaliste: yeah that would be needed. ideally you could sync keys from cloud08:46
dcalistejpetrell: +1 it would help also to receive community contribution. The Gnome love initiative was a nice to polish UI and advertise minor things to be corrected for new comers.08:47
dcalistejpetrell: you can already download missing keys on the fly when receiving a new email, but keys are not not linked with contacts.08:47
dcalisteI mean, keys are stored by GPG and there is no way currently to see in contact app that John or Paul have a key or not.08:48
chriadamdata vs ui separation is interesting here08:49
chriadamwould be much easier if we had daemonised contacts api - contacts daemon could monitor gpg database for stored keys, match contact with email to email with key in gpg, and then update some field in contacts database accordingly08:50
chriadamthen any contact card or similar could display that data08:50
chriadamanyway, something which would need careful consideration and design work I guess.08:51
dcalisteYes, UI should act as an aggregation of separated data. chriadam: yes that was my initial thoughts. But it needs to be discussed in details to be sure we don't have design flows08:51
chriadamanyway, we (Jolla) need to get the first step integrated first.  not a bad thing to require command line tools to install gpg keys at first, I think, for power-users.08:53
chriadamthen we can continue with UI side more.08:53
chriadamunfortunately I have to go now - catching up with my parents for dinner tonight08:54
dcalisteYes, that's the plan. Just brainstorming a bit on next step ;)08:54
dcalistechriadam: sure. Have a nice evening.08:55
dcalisteWill ping when the TJC draft is ready.08:55
chriadamdcaliste: thanks again for your hard work.  let me know if you'd like me to prod anyone on Qt side to review QtDeclarative patch or if you are prototyping the surface destruction thing first08:55
dcalisteThe current patch seems to work well.08:55
chriadamaside from that, I will test the gpg plugin end to end on freshly flashed device this week.08:55
dcalisteAnd I'm investigating the signal way of doing it.08:56
chriadamsure.  well, ping me if you'd like me to poke people or if I need to do anything to help :-)08:56
dcalisteOk, thanks.08:56
* chriadam -> away - thanks again and gnight :-)08:56
jpetrellthanks! sorry for spotty participation, having fun with legal documents08:57
Dakonsorry if I jump in late, but Kontact/KMail also has nice gpg integration08:59
Dakonit colors the background of the email in green/yellow/red depending on the signature state09:00
dcalisteDakon, I guess so, I'm just not using them and cannot really comment on how they do it. But You will be welcome to participate in the TJC question, when available, providing a review of your favorite email client.09:08
dcalistejpetrell: no problem thank you already for dedicating time for this.09:08
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flypigdcaliste, now I've had a chance to take a look I can see what you mean. This upstreaming is a substantial piece of work. You think it's achievable though?14:24
dcalisteI'm trying to apply patch 0014 on top of 006 on top of selected changes from 0004…14:25
dcalisteIt should work I think.14:25
dcalisteBut it will require some testing when rebasing the current patches on the new upstream.14:26
flypigOkay great. I admire your optimism :)14:26
dcalisteCurrently, I've updated 15% of patch 0014. I'll let you know when I reach 100% ;)14:27
flypigThank you :) Let me know if I can do anything, but I should probably stay out of your way until then.14:29
dcalisteflypig: you already did the main job finding the root of the idle bug.14:30
flypigdcaliste, that's good of you to say, but we're all just building on others' contributions, after all. I'll just be happy if the bug is fixed, however it happens!14:35
dcalisteflypig, I need to leave now, but I've got something reasonable to upstream. I'll do tomorrow and let you know when ready.16:34
flypigdcaliste, thanks for doing this. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help; we can speak more tomorrow.16:51
YasigiWalterAnyone here familiar with the development cycle of the android compatibility layer?19:22
keithzg[m]YasigiWalter: Well, the Android compatibility layer is based on the prior Java VM that Android used but no longer uses, so the current development cycle is basically "hopefully someone fully ports and polishes up Anbox" AFAIK.20:04
keithzg[m]Speaking on compatibility: Tooter is expected to work these days, right? Just making sure it's the very old version of Mastodon on the instance I'm on that's the problem, and not the app itself.20:05
malkeithzg[m]: XA2 has new support20:05
keithzg[m]mal: Fair enough, I was under the impression that it was still stuck emulating at best 4.4 since that was the last *actual* Dalvik version, and I misinformed about that too?20:07
keithzg[m]s/and I/am I, yeesh I apparently can't type today20:07
malkeithzg[m]: XA2 Alien is based on 8.120:07
keithzg[m]mal: Whoa! Nice!20:08
malkeithzg[m]: for some info https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-x-beta-available-for-xa2/20:09
keithzg[m]mal: Thanks for the info! In all honesty I tend to avoid paying too much attention to SailfishX-specific developments since it's a bit too infuriating, as I live in a jurisdiction denied it ;) although I *do* have it illicitly installed on an Xperia X nonetheless.20:11
YasigiWalterkeithzg[m]: ouch, I have a XA2 lying about, but Signal doesn't run proper on that one and my Xperia X is dying :-(20:15
keithzg[m]Anyways, I assume Tooter doesn't crash for anyone else? Really sad that it doesn't work for me anymore, I suppose I should actually just try installing an old version...20:15
YasigiWalterTooter runs on SailfishX both, on the X and the XA2 without issues20:16
keithzg[m]YasigiWalter: Yeah, that's what I figured, IIRC last time I looked into this it looked from the error message that it was indeed just that the instance I'm on is too old. Hopefully they update/migrate to Pleroma soon, but in the meantime I should probably just manually install an older version of Tooter.20:17
malYasigiWalter: how is Signal failing?20:18
YasigiWaltermal: cannot send messages20:18
YasigiWalterreceiving them is fine20:19
YasigiWaltereven media ones, or at least pictures20:19
keithzg[m]YasigiWalter: Yeah it's unfortunate that there's a dearth of IM apps for SailfishOS. At least Matrix is possible, even if there's nothing entirely complete and stable right now I think? Too bad that the Purism Librem 5 is GTK-based, since *that* is apparently the one non-mainstream OS/distro that Whisper Systems is deigning to allow a client be built for, and if it was Qt-based I'm sure folks could have managed to20:19
keithzg[m]adapt it. Maybe still can, fingers crossed.20:19
YasigiWalterSignal is probably the only Android app I cannot live without20:19
zebbiz_piI use Whisperfish20:20
zebbiz_piWhat does the android app do that whisperfish don't?20:20
zebbiz_piBeside being official20:20
YasigiWaltervoice and video calls20:21
YasigiWalterwhich I do use20:21
YasigiWalterand multi-device support20:21
YasigiWalterwhich I currently do not use, but would like to use20:21
zebbiz_piFair enough20:23
zebbiz_piWhat do you mean by multi-device support, though?20:23
malYasigiWalter: ok, odd that sending fails, could it be related to networking issues mentioned on tjc20:23
zebbiz_piI have signal running on my laptop, my desktop, and my jolla20:23
YasigiWalterzebbiz_pi: support for the desktop client20:28
YasigiWalterthe desktop client is paired to a mobile device20:29
YasigiWalterthe client on the mobile device must support that pairing20:29
YasigiWalterat least, the whisperfish github page says that it cannot do that20:30
keithzg[m]YasigiWalter: And the Signal folks really don't want any third-party clients to support it. `signal-cli` uses a patched library to do so and apparently upstream is not happy about that . . .21:39
YasigiWalterkeithzg[m]: yes, I know, Moxie isn't keen on 3rd party clients22:46
YasigiWalterBut the people I want to talk to use it22:46
r0kk3rzit'd be really nice if they made an official sailfishos client22:47
YasigiWaltertoo small a market, I am afraid22:49
keithzg[m]I mean hell, Signal's desktop client even dropped support for ChromeOS, which is not exactly an unpopular platform.22:51
r0kk3rzi know, but its a real kick in the guts to say 'no third-party clients, and btw we wont support you either'22:51
r0kk3rzwhatsapp did the same thing22:51
keithzg[m]Oh definitely. It's one of the things that has me not actually recommending Signal to people these days, it's just a really troubling attitude.22:52
* keithzg[m] wishes there was a usable Matrix client for SailfishOS these days---unless https://github.com/a-andreyev/harbour-matrix does actually work, just doesn't have any RPMs posted anywhere?22:56
r0kk3rzkeithzg[m]: theres builds, thats a fork of my client23:00
r0kk3rzi think there were a few regressions last time i updated the lib, which make it slightly less usable23:01
keithzg[m]r0kk3rz: Oh, thanks! I'm just bad at searching then I guess, heh. Are OBS repos safe to add to SailfishOS instances these days, or should I just stick with manually installing the RPMs?23:04
r0kk3rzwhat do you mean 'these days'? its just a repo23:05
r0kk3rzor you can download the rpm, its up to you23:05
keithzg[m]Fair enough, I just remember years ago there being some weirdness with adding the repos and how pkcon would actually use them or not.23:07
* keithzg[m] is just always uncertain about these things, only feels entirely comfortable in Debian-land23:08
r0kk3rzi dont remember any weirdness, just use ssu for managing repos and remember to refresh23:13
r0kk3rzssu lr/ar/rr/er/dr23:14

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