#sailfishos-meeting: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 11th Jan 2024

Meeting started by rainemak at 08:00:09 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary

    1. Meeting information and agenda can be found here: (rainemak, 08:00:20)
    2. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-11th-january-2024/17628 (rainemak, 08:00:20)

  2. Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (rainemak, 08:00:20)
    1. Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today (rainemak, 08:00:39)
    2. Ville Nummela - sailor@Jolla (ViGe, 08:00:45)
    3. Otto Mäkelä, community (ExTechOp, 08:01:15)
    4. nephros, Community (nephros, 08:01:21)
    5. communiy member (LouisDK, 08:01:28)
    6. Matias, community (Matias, 08:01:33)
    7. sebix - community (sebix[m], 08:02:12)
    8. David Llewellyn-Jones, Community (flypig, 08:02:16)
    9. Crabster - lurker (Crabster, 08:02:38)

  3. XDG-Desktop-Portal specification: interesting for Sailfish OS? (10mins -- asked by nephros) (rainemak, 08:05:05)
    1. <Jolla> This is rather long question. Thus, let’s use original message from the forum (rainemak, 08:05:17)
    2. <nephros> Here's the question: (rainemak, 08:05:17)
    3. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-11th-january-2024/17628/2 (rainemak, 08:05:17)
    4. <Jolla> Certainly, having common APIs is a good idea. More planning is (rainemak, 08:05:59)
    5. <Jolla> needed and putting down mentioned high-level guidance. We could (rainemak, 08:05:59)
    6. <Jolla> plan this on a separate forum post. Worth to analyse how much XDG (rainemak, 08:05:59)
    7. <Jolla> Desktop Portals could eventually help on mobile. (rainemak, 08:05:59)
    8. API reference is extensive (rainemak, 08:11:40)
    9. https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/api-reference.html (rainemak, 08:11:41)
    10. <flypig> XDG-Desktop-Portal would help with Sandboxing; porting; and just generally staying consistent with other distros. Does that sound about right? (rainemak, 08:12:13)
    11. <nephros> I think first step could be identifying where there is overlap of existing functionality and specification. (rainemak, 08:12:43)
    12. <nephros> (and identifying which parts of the spec are not interesting to SFOS). (rainemak, 08:13:02)
    13. Presumably there could be a community-driven effort to implement something like the screenshot interface, to see how it might work? (rainemak, 08:15:22)

  4. Unlock via dbus (10mins -- asked by piggz) (rainemak, 08:16:07)
    1. <piggz> I made a fun little hack which allows a user to auto-unlock the (rainemak, 08:16:21)
    2. <piggz> phone if some configured BT device is connected (GitHub - piggz/ (rainemak, 08:16:21)
    3. <piggz> harbour-smartunlock 3). Unfortunately it required a nasty hack in (rainemak, 08:16:21)
    4. <piggz> nemo-qml-plugin-devicelock to allow unlocking via dbus (GitHub - (rainemak, 08:16:21)
    5. <piggz> piggz/nemo-qml-plugin-devicelock at dbus-unlock), I can envisage a (rainemak, 08:16:21)
    6. <piggz> setup where the user enters the unlock code into some settings, and (rainemak, 08:16:23)
    7. <piggz> a dbus method that accepted the code could do the unlocking, which (rainemak, 08:16:24)
    8. <piggz> would be a bit better. This currently works great on the (rainemak, 08:16:26)
    9. <piggz> PInephones, but not on my phone which uses sailfish-devicelock-fpd. (rainemak, 08:16:28)
    10. <piggz> That closed part does link to /usr/lib64/libnemodevicelock.so.0 and (rainemak, 08:16:30)
    11. <piggz> exposes the same dbus method, but replies with an Auth error before (rainemak, 08:16:32)
    12. <piggz> hitting the modified code in MceDeviceLockAdaptor::setState() I (rainemak, 08:16:34)
    13. <piggz> think this is because it statically links the library, so my (rainemak, 08:16:36)
    14. <piggz> override in the dynamic lib doesnt work. Would you be interested in (rainemak, 08:16:40)
    15. <piggz> adding some real way to auto-unlock a device? What are your (rainemak, 08:16:42)
    16. <piggz> thoughts on this? My use case is to not need to unlock the phone if (rainemak, 08:16:44)
    17. <piggz> it know im “close by” … eg, if connected to my watch or my car" (rainemak, 08:16:46)
    18. https://github.com/piggz/harbour-smartunlock (rainemak, 08:16:48)
    19. https://github.com/piggz/nemo-qml-plugin-devicelock/tree/dbus-unlock (rainemak, 08:16:50)
    20. <Jolla> Yes, there some interest to support community with something like (rainemak, 08:16:52)
    21. <Jolla> this. Your patch touches the same function we have modified in some (rainemak, 08:16:54)
    22. <Jolla> in-house hacks / demos – so it is one control point that could be (rainemak, 08:16:56)
    23. <Jolla> used. But it is also very much against the rule of thumb: anyone (rainemak, 08:16:58)
    24. <Jolla> can lock device, only device lock daemon can unlock it based on (rainemak, 08:17:00)
    25. <Jolla> something user does. Pure sw unlock easily becomes a backdoor. At (rainemak, 08:17:02)
    26. <Jolla> minimum such possibility should be limited to privileged processes (rainemak, 08:17:04)
    27. <Jolla> (our patch allows only root to unlock). Preferably user should (rainemak, 08:17:06)
    28. <Jolla> still be in control over something like this – say setting allowing (rainemak, 08:17:10)
    29. <Jolla> unlock over D-Bus , bit similarly to relaxing rules about package (rainemak, 08:17:12)
    30. <Jolla> installation works. Or limiting such functionality to named client (rainemak, 08:17:14)
    31. <Jolla> binaries. The smaller the hole the better but nevertheless there (rainemak, 08:17:16)
    32. <Jolla> will be a hole. Does the possibility for increased convenience for (rainemak, 08:17:18)
    33. <Jolla> some justify decrease in security for all? (rainemak, 08:17:20)
    34. <Jolla> (rainemak, 08:17:22)
    35. <Jolla> Another way might be to implement this as authentication method (rainemak, 08:17:24)
    36. <Jolla> that device lock daemon would then use for unlocking (when user (rainemak, 08:17:26)
    37. <Jolla> wakes up the device). But given that daemon is closed source (rainemak, 08:17:28)
    38. <Jolla> monolith, it would need to be implemented in-house for foreseeable (rainemak, 08:17:30)
    39. <Jolla> future. And we’d need ability to grade authentication methods (rainemak, 08:17:32)
    40. <Jolla> somehow to differentiate between “can be used for unlocking device” (rainemak, 08:17:34)
    41. <Jolla> and “can be used to identify user” and so on. (rainemak, 08:17:36)
    42. <ExTechOp> It would be nice if the user could select how "hard" security they want/need on their devices, instead of having it hardwired by the operating system. (rainemak, 08:22:19)

  5. Inclusion of FolderListModel in harbour (5mins -- asked by poetaster) (rainemak, 08:26:04)
    1. <poetaster> I recently, somewhat belatedly, noticed that I had disqualified (rainemak, 08:26:09)
    2. <poetaster> a number of packages I already have in harbour by adding (rainemak, 08:26:09)
    3. <poetaster> FolderListModel. (the labs one). Is it possible to allow this? (rainemak, 08:26:09)
    4. <poetaster> Or am I missing an equally convenient mechanism. I have my (rainemak, 08:26:09)
    5. <poetaster> ‘own’ python based version but that’s a hack. (rainemak, 08:26:09)
    6. <Jolla> There isn’t really any good reason for not allowing (rainemak, 08:26:17)
    7. <Jolla> Qt.labs.folderlistmodel in Harbour. In fact, we were already (rainemak, 08:26:17)
    8. <Jolla> planning to allow it in 4.5.0 release, but unfortunately the change (rainemak, 08:26:17)
    9. <Jolla> just missed the window. It will be allowed when the next Sailfish (rainemak, 08:26:17)
    10. <Jolla> OS release comes out. (rainemak, 08:26:18)

  6. AAS System Webview (5mins -- asked by Matias) (rainemak, 08:27:43)
    1. <Matias> SFOS AAS comes with Android System Webview version 83 which is 3.5 (rainemak, 08:27:55)
    2. <Matias> years old by now. This causes certain banking apps and potentially (rainemak, 08:27:55)
    3. <Matias> other Android applications that rely on a more recent version of (rainemak, 08:27:55)
    4. <Matias> webview to stop working and it is also a bit of a security risk. (rainemak, 08:27:55)
    5. <Matias> Installing and activating a different webview implementation (rainemak, 08:27:55)
    6. <Matias> requires superuser rights (infeasible) or signature spoofing (rainemak, 08:27:55)
    7. <Matias> (which nobody seems to have tried in the context of webview yet). (rainemak, 08:27:57)
    8. <Matias> With the reorganization over I was hoping someone could shed some (rainemak, 08:27:59)
    9. <Matias> light on this. (rainemak, 08:28:01)
    10. <Matias> (rainemak, 08:28:03)
    11. <Matias> So, is there an update for AAS/Android System Webview somewhere (rainemak, 08:28:05)
    12. <Matias> down the pipeline? (rainemak, 08:28:09)
    13. <Matias> (rainemak, 08:28:11)
    14. <Matias> Links/references: (rainemak, 08:28:13)
    15. <Matias> (rainemak, 08:28:15)
    16. <Matias> 1. Rabobank app stopped working (rainemak, 08:28:17)
    17. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/rabobank-app-stopped-working/2898 (rainemak, 08:28:19)
    18. <Matias> 2. Old Android WebView (74.x) --> update needed, ideas? (rainemak, 08:28:21)
    19. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/old-android-webview-74-x-update-needed-ideas/13465 (rainemak, 08:28:23)
    20. <Matias> 3. Make updating Android (System)Webview possible 2 (rainemak, 08:28:25)
    21. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/make-updating-android-system-webview-possible/15116 (rainemak, 08:28:27)
    22. <Matias> 4. GeckoView instead of Android System WebView · Issue #167 · mozilla/geckoview · GitHub 1 (rainemak, 08:28:29)
    23. https://github.com/mozilla/geckoview/issues/167#issuecomment-1031423692 (rainemak, 08:28:32)
    24. <Jolla> We are using Webview from current Android version and it is updated (rainemak, 08:28:34)
    25. <Jolla> always when we update AppSupport Android base version. We have (rainemak, 08:28:36)
    26. <Jolla> AppSupport update for next Android version in pipeline but not yet (rainemak, 08:28:40)
    27. <Jolla> sure when can we release that out. (rainemak, 08:28:42)
    28. <Matias> Would it be possible to whitelist other webviews in the system image to allow the user to choose other ones if they so desire? Just an idea. (rainemak, 08:30:51)

  7. Mobile data in Italy with Xperia 10 III not working (4.5.0.24) (5mins -- asked by Valorsoguerriero97) (rainemak, 08:32:23)
    1. <Valorsoguerriero97> Mobile data not working under WINDTRE (ITALY) on 10 (rainemak, 08:32:33)
    2. <Valorsoguerriero97> III. Same APN setting on my 10 works ok. Not here. I (rainemak, 08:32:33)
    3. <Valorsoguerriero97> can only call and receive sms… not mobile data. What (rainemak, 08:32:33)
    4. <Valorsoguerriero97> about this bug? Can you give me an estimated time for (rainemak, 08:32:33)
    5. <Valorsoguerriero97> resolution? (rainemak, 08:32:33)
    6. <Jolla> You replied to the forum already with a solution. Good that this got sorted out. (rainemak, 08:32:45)
    7. <Jolla> Summary: Ask the operator to disable VoLTE on your contract/line. (rainemak, 08:32:46)
    8. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-no-mobile-data/17711/19 (rainemak, 08:32:46)

  8. Jolla community dinner @ FOSDEM '24 (10mins -- asked by Louis) (rainemak, 08:34:39)
    1. <Louis> There has been a Jolla community dinner after FOSDEM on Saturday in (rainemak, 08:34:44)
    2. <Louis> the previous years at non-COVID times. I personally miss the (rainemak, 08:34:45)
    3. <Louis> Moroccan restaurant La Kasbah (the host at 2019 and 2020) as I (rainemak, 08:34:45)
    4. <Louis> found it quite suited? Anyone from Jolla up for the planning or (rainemak, 08:34:45)
    5. <Louis> should it be done by time community. Also if anyone have better (rainemak, 08:34:45)
    6. <Louis> suggestions I’m open for it. (rainemak, 08:34:45)
    7. <Jolla> We’re thinking that this would be more like Community event this (rainemak, 08:35:12)
    8. <Jolla> time. That said, it’s under planning. We’re still checking suitable (rainemak, 08:35:13)
    9. <Jolla> place, but it should be such that it encourages to discuss and serves (rainemak, 08:35:13)
    10. <Jolla> food. Central location it’ll be and likely scheduled to Saturday (rainemak, 08:35:13)
    11. <Jolla> 7:00 PM giving everybody enough time to move from FOSDEM venue. (rainemak, 08:35:13)
    12. <Jolla> (rainemak, 08:35:13)
    13. <Jolla> There’s also a forum topic about the dinner but no post yet (rainemak, 08:35:15)
    14. <Jolla> regarding this Community event. (rainemak, 08:35:17)
    15. <Jolla> (rainemak, 08:35:19)
    16. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/any-plans-regarding-fosdem-2024-dinner/17632/5 (rainemak, 08:35:21)

  9. Jollas future plans regarding Alien Dalvik (10mins -- asked by Louis) (rainemak, 08:41:27)
    1. <Louis> What is the situation regarding Jolla and Alien Dalvik. Does Jolla (rainemak, 08:41:30)
    2. <Louis> have “enough rights” to expand the development and offering of (rainemak, 08:41:30)
    3. <Louis> Alien Dalvik to eg. community ports? (Eg. sell it under an “as-is” (rainemak, 08:41:31)
    4. <Louis> agreement without any official support from Jolla) (rainemak, 08:41:31)
    5. <Jolla> Let’s correct the name first, it’s not Alien Dalvik but Android (rainemak, 08:41:42)
    6. <Jolla> AppSupport. Not quite sure what you trying to ask with “enough (rainemak, 08:41:42)
    7. <Jolla> rights” but yes, we have all rights to the AppSupport. This has (rainemak, 08:41:42)
    8. <Jolla> been discussed on several occasions in the past, see links below. (rainemak, 08:41:42)
    9. <Jolla> Proposed as-is is likely not a good idea with current Sailfish X (rainemak, 08:41:42)
    10. <Jolla> pricing model. (rainemak, 08:41:43)
    11. <Jolla> (rainemak, 08:41:45)
    12. <Jolla> It's worth noting that Android AppSupport for community ports is (rainemak, 08:41:47)
    13. <Jolla> more than just providing the relevant packages. No need to repeat (rainemak, 08:41:49)
    14. <Jolla> answers again, please check “Ability to buy/enable Android (rainemak, 08:41:51)
    15. <Jolla> AppSupport for community ports” topic from 2023-02-16 log and (rainemak, 08:41:53)
    16. <Jolla> “Standalone AppSupport license for ports” topic from the 2022-06-09 (rainemak, 08:41:55)
    17. <Jolla> log. (rainemak, 08:41:57)
    18. <Jolla> (rainemak, 08:41:59)
    19. <Jolla> If we were to do this, it wouldn't be in the immediate future. (rainemak, 08:42:01)
    20. <Jolla> (rainemak, 08:42:03)
    21. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-16th-february-2023/14326 (rainemak, 08:42:05)
    22. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-9th-june-2022/11704 (rainemak, 08:42:07)
    23. https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-02-16-08.00.log.html (rainemak, 08:42:11)
    24. https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2022/sailfishos-meeting.2022-06-09-07.01.log.html (rainemak, 08:42:14)

  10. Mic issues under AOSP and SailfishOS (Xperia 10 ii + iii) (5mins -- asked by Louis) (rainemak, 08:42:48)
    1. <Louis> 3rd party caller my be able to hear their own voice due to a bug in (rainemak, 08:42:55)
    2. <Louis> AOSP. Any updates on this from Jolla? Echo during calls on Xperia (rainemak, 08:42:55)
    3. <Louis> 10 II using Loudspeaker 1 and [LENA][11][4.19] Echo cancellation is (rainemak, 08:42:55)
    4. <Louis> not enabled for voice calls · Issue #771 · (rainemak, 08:42:55)
    5. <Louis> sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker · GitHub (rainemak, 08:42:55)
    6. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/echo-during-calls-on-xperia-10-ii-using-loudspeaker/10990 (rainemak, 08:42:57)
    7. https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker/issues/771 (rainemak, 08:42:58)
    8. <Jolla> Not really updates. Officially we’re stating Android 11 as required (rainemak, 08:43:00)
    9. <Jolla> stock Android version and clearing Android 12 as ok. That said, (rainemak, 08:43:02)
    10. <Jolla> without guarantees you could try to update your Sony Xperia 10 III (rainemak, 08:43:04)
    11. <Jolla> to Android 13 before flashing Sailfish OS and check if it’s better (rainemak, 08:43:06)
    12. <Jolla> – please note that Android 11 binary blobs are still needed from (rainemak, 08:43:10)
    13. <Jolla> Sony’s web site. Bear in mind that if you upgrade stock Android (rainemak, 08:43:12)
    14. <Jolla> version to 13 before flashing Sailfish OS and there are other kind (rainemak, 08:43:14)
    15. <Jolla> of issues and you want to downgrade, you need to flash Android 12 (rainemak, 08:43:16)
    16. <Jolla> with Windows and use Emma. (rainemak, 08:43:18)
    17. https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/ (rainemak, 08:43:20)
    18. https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Managing_Sailfish_OS/Reinstalling_Sailfish_OS/#reverting-xperia-back-to-android-os (rainemak, 08:43:22)

  11. Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (rainemak, 08:45:18)
    1. <Jolla> Any open PRs to discuss? (rainemak, 08:45:18)
    2. <topic> Bug reports by the community bug coordination team (5 min -- asked by Jolla) (rainemak, 08:47:02)
    3. <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight. (rainemak, 08:47:07)
    4. <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have: (rainemak, 08:47:07)
    5. <Jolla> 6 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked". (rainemak, 08:47:07)
    6. <Jolla> 1 bug report missing “tracked” tag. (rainemak, 08:47:07)
    7. <Jolla> 3 marked as duplicates and closed. (rainemak, 08:47:09)

  12. General discussion (8 min) (rainemak, 08:47:36)
    1. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/android_webview/docs/aosp-system-integration.md#Why-are-there-security-restrictions-on-which-apps-can-be-used-as-a-WebView-implementation (rainemak, 08:53:44)
    2. "Why are there security restrictions on which apps can be used as a WebView implementation?" ^ (rainemak, 08:54:21)

  13. Next meeting time and date (5 mins) (rainemak, 08:55:18)
    1. https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qt-labs-folderlistmodel-folderlistmodel.html (rainemak, 08:56:07)
    2. Next meeting will be held on Thursday 1st February 2023 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-02-01T0800Z (rainemak, 08:59:45)


Meeting ended at 09:01:30 UTC (full logs).

Action items

  1. (none)


People present (lines said)

  1. rainemak (239)
  2. flypig (33)
  3. poetaster (23)
  4. nephros (18)
  5. LouisDK (11)
  6. piggz (10)
  7. Matias (8)
  8. ExTechOp (6)
  9. sailbot_ (2)
  10. ViGe (2)
  11. sebix[m] (1)
  12. Crabster (1)


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