#jollamobile log for Monday, 2013-12-23

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artemma[Quite reliable] Flashlight for Sailfish is ready (again). Submitted to harbour, you can try earlier at http://bit.ly/flashlight1700:47
SpeedEvilyay!00:49
celeron55nice00:49
Aardartemma: what changed?00:49
artemmaAard: timings. I tried on a real device and figured tunings that make torch nearly stable in both light and dark conditions00:50
artemmadidn't try exactly in daylight though00:50
artemmaI also figured out a way to make it even more stable (adjust timings dynamically), but that's for genuary00:51
artemmafor january*00:51
artemmareal device sort'a helps for working with real device features :)00:51
* artemma really thinks Jolla should have been sending prerelease device to developers for free and even arranged an app competition with prizes00:52
Aardartemma: not really possible for us at that time00:52
artemmathat costs, yet I find it hard to believe it's more expensive than delay in apps00:52
Aardit's not only about costs00:53
SpeedEvil'free' - I have questions about.00:53
smokexthey aren't big/rich enough for that yet like nokia was00:53
artemmawell, yeah, it needs stable firmware too00:53
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celeron55they're probably busy trying to make the thing work in the first place 8)00:53
SpeedEvilEven non-free engineering prerelease. But it may be that it's not possible to release as they're only usuable with periodic updates on teh factory flashing rig00:53
* artemma was receiving free devices from Nokia and Blackberry in the past and tapped free-devices-to-developers crowd a little.00:54
artemmatechnical reasons.. well, then it was impossible00:54
AardSpeedEvil: there are changelogs on the device. check when we made the factory image :p00:54
smokexit was released within a week of it being stable enough to show publicly I'd wager00:54
artemmacould be a good moment to start a dev competition now then00:54
artemmacash flow situation could also be easier nw00:54
artemmanow*00:54
* artemma paid his own money for device. Yet not everybody is so fanatical and you want those guys too00:55
smokexthey have to pay back their investors00:55
SpeedEvilI will pay $10 for the first fully functioning AI 'Siri-alike' on the device. Must include code to stop it taking over the world.00:55
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celeron55investors probably aren't so dumb that they'd think you can just skip marketing00:56
smokexso they won't even reach a profit margin until around february at their current rate00:57
artemmaEven 200K Eur for, say, 10-30 prizes could start quite a bit of competition taking into account a perceived number of competitors. And you'd get at least few real good apps then00:57
artemmaa couple of months earlier than without the prizes00:57
artemmawhether several of months of speedup for several high quality apps is worth the investment in prizes is sure a business decision to be taken by management00:58
artemmaanother ways of support are available too certainly. Like partnering the developers or going Windows Phone way when they promise guaranteed income for qualified app ideas/authors. If your app doesn't sell for certain some (10K or 30K I think), they add Microsoft money01:00
Aardartemma: they do? maybe I should get a windows phone... :p01:01
artemmaAard: nowadays there is even a bigger program. If you qualify for mid-level project, they promise 30K upon app delivery01:01
artemmaand give you 10K right away..  even if you fail later01:02
phdeswerartemma: but then again they are desperate with big deep pockets.01:02
Aardmid-level project? I guess fart apps don't qualify?01:02
* artemma thinks for quite some time that he should apply for it and hire a WP8 subcontractor for actually doing the app01:02
SpeedEvilAard: It has to have three fart sounds, then you're fine.01:02
artemmaAard: I think small leve; proj is 10K01:02
Aardneeds to be small enough to do it in the 5 minutes spare time I have every day nowadays ;)01:03
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phdeswerMaybe a convert WP phone to sailfish app could be suitable?01:03
smokexI wonder how many people in a 3rd world company have used that program to screw microsoft for chump change01:03
smokexs/company/country01:03
artemmaFunny thing is that in my daytime I actually manage remote subcontractors for quite successful iOS/Android app. But then doing same for WP in free time would feel like work :)01:03
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artemmaare here some WP8 devs BTW? :D01:04
smokexI've never met one :D01:04
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Aardartemma: passed the chance. nokia didn't let me into their developer program few years back since I'm apparently pretty clueless about what I'm doing01:04
artemmaphdeswer: they did manage to push Instagram, Whatsapp, Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, etc to WP8.01:05
artemmait was a real hard push, I've heard about it. And it still is hard01:05
artemmaLack of good apps is not that much of an argument against WP anymore01:05
artemmathough it never was the primary problem01:05
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smokexclosed/proprietary is the primary problem01:06
* Aard fails to find good apps in your list, though. maybe whatsapp might qualify01:06
artemmaAard: these are just examples that came to mind now. They have a lot of stuff01:06
artemmasmokex: tell it to Apple :D01:06
celeron55then jolla came and got each of those for free from android 8)01:06
smokexthe store app is kind of crap for sailfish actually01:06
artemmasmokex: or to Google too actually :D01:07
Aardceleron55: well, there is some effort involved for getting the right to use them01:07
smokexits one giant ball of fail with ratings and actual apps and categories all balled in to one ball of goo01:07
* artemma holds the side that operator's will is like 10 times stronger success factor than platform quality. Just recall Symbian before Elop came in. It was actually growing01:08
artemmaThere are categories in current Jolla app store??????01:08
smokexbecause people were actually getting what they were asking for01:08
smokexyeah01:08
artemma?01:08
smokexthere is a Jolla apps category :D01:08
artemmaI saw only Jolla official apps folder and that's it01:08
smokex^01:09
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* artemma was quite disappointed to realize that his Wikipedia app could only be found by people actually searching for Wikipedia01:09
artemma*sigh*01:09
SpeedEvilartemma: I found it by browsing 'all'01:09
artemmaSpeedEvil: I couldn't see any All"01:10
artemma"All" thing.. Checking again01:10
smokexits probably a swipe down menu01:10
SpeedEvilFlick right to left01:10
SpeedEvilAnd that brings up a categories01:10
artemmaAH! Indeed01:10
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artemmagot to leard that top-left dots are also used for "tabs", not for just backwards-forwards01:11
Aardartemma: use the glowing pagestack indicators :p01:11
artemmaSpeedEvil: thanks!01:11
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* artemma wonders how many normal people will find the same..01:11
smokexyeah thx SpeedEvil :)01:11
smokexagreed artemma01:11
Aardartemma: it's part of the startupwizard tutorial, though01:11
Aardand it's part of the user manual01:11
smokexI went through the startup wizard01:12
artemmawell, maybe "normal" people will follow tutorial more carefully..01:12
Aard:p01:12
artemmaand remember it when they start store01:12
Aardyou have the same in several other places. for example, in messages it'll bring up the contacts card01:12
smokexthe only sideways swipes were for minimizing apps01:12
SpeedEvilSome of the comments in the apps imply that some apps are in fact android apps in the jolla store.01:12
jusicsdicking around with energy consumption measurements: http://hattara.sainio.de/~jusic/energiador/jolla_power_draw_standby_idle_browsing_1_0_1_12.png01:12
SpeedEvilIs this possible?01:13
artemmaoh well, Store improvements are promised too. There's a lot of priritization to do. Or prioritization and hiring01:13
smokexand moving through wizards01:13
AardSpeedEvil: yes01:13
artemmaSpeedEvil: Harbour lets you upload APK me thinks01:13
SpeedEvilHmm.01:13
smokexmaybe if there were * things at the top I would know to swipe sideways01:13
* SpeedEvil is conflicted.01:13
PeterParkare there some docs about the hardware? I am interested in Flashlight and LED Programming..01:13
artemmaPeterPark: for now that is impossible the official way01:14
* artemma bounced his head against torch down to Android HAL level (not available for app level anyway)01:14
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artemmaI made a flashlight, but it basically tricks camera forcing it to turn LED ON01:15
PeterParkartemma: You mean impossible from documentation POV or API ?01:15
artemmaTorch API is not implemented01:15
artemmaTorch mode in Flashlight API is not implemented01:15
PeterParkOk bu Camera API then?01:15
artemmaAt least one of them is promised to be implemented later01:15
artemmaTorch mode in Camera flash mode API is not implemented01:16
PeterParkbummer :(01:16
artemmawell, "promised" as in message in this channel that it should be done at some point01:16
PeterParkand the LED for communication (on frontside)?01:16
AardPeterPark: mce01:16
artemmaPeterPark: you can see the top results of what I was able to get t http://bit.ly/flashlight1701:17
artemmadon't know about the front one01:17
SpeedEvilartemma: it doesn't go very bright at all - it's not a sane flashlight option :)01:17
artemmaSpeedEvil: pls, elaborate01:17
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PeterParkSpeedEvil: No not for flashlight :D Sorry I did not made myself clear..01:18
SpeedEvilartemma: Well - I'm basing it on what I could get with echo 255 > red/green/blue brightnessees01:18
PeterParkI just meant for signalling SMS, EMAIL IMs etc.. like on n90001:18
SpeedEvilah01:18
SpeedEvilI don't know what the proper way to do this is. MCE?01:18
artemmaSpeedEvil: I thought there's just single ON/OFF switch for flash..01:18
SpeedEvilmce01:18
SpeedEvilartemma: yes - I'm not meaning flash01:18
artemmaSpeedEvil: then I am confused even more :)01:19
SpeedEvilartemma: though it woulnd't surprise me if the flash has different levels. The indicator LED01:19
PeterParkSpeedEvil: What does mce stnad for ?01:19
SpeedEvilNo idea.01:19
artemmaSpeedEvil: Torch API lets you set flash power level. May or may not be supported by hardware and middlewhere01:19
artemmaPeterPark: I'd suggest asking in #sailfishos channel during Finnish daytime or evening01:20
artemmaMailing List could help too, but I think IRC will be faster and better, but you'll need to hang on there to get to somebody who knows or can check which area you should look at01:21
PeterParkartemma: ok thanks !01:21
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Aardmce = mode control entity01:21
Aardgood old nokia leftover01:22
artemmathat is something #mer people might know well..01:22
petantikls01:22
petantikoops01:22
SpeedEvil.01:22
SpeedEvil..01:22
artemmaI doubt apps would be given API access to front side notification LED, but if's via something like DBUS message, you may be able to do it even without any permissions01:23
PeterParkok thanks for clearification!01:23
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artemmait looks like it's a real API. As in librararies you need to link to - https://github.com/kjokinie/mce/wiki/MCE---Mode-control-entity01:25
SpeedEvilFrom memory - the library calls just do dbus01:27
SpeedEvilIn principle, you could do that on your own01:27
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artemmaSpeedEvil: then you may be able just to ship an own copy of mce together with your app01:30
SpeedEvilthat would seem to be ratehr silly01:30
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walokraanybody tinfoiled their nfc chip yet? http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2013/12/jolla-battery-life-power-consumption.html06:07
PeperJohnnyWell i hope Jolla will shut it down, now06:11
walokrayeah, you can also shutdown the nfc daemon06:14
PeperJohnnyhave you tried it?06:14
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walokramaybe after morning coffee :)06:17
FryeMorning.06:20
atlazMorning06:20
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nanderHmm, it is still on its way from charles de gaulle to ???06:24
nanderIt has been since sunday 21:3106:24
nandersaturday*06:24
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atlazwalokra: i masked and stopped the tohd.service now06:26
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Stskeepsmorn07:01
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jussiMornign all07:53
jussiPlayed with my BIL's Jolla yesterday.07:53
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jussiCouldnt register for the yandex store - it wouldnt give me a captcha07:54
jussisaid something about no network07:54
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jussi(and there was certainly network - everythign else was working)07:54
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jussiANyway, sorted it by using my android to make the registration then loggin in with that.07:55
* jussi trows a tomato at Stskeeps07:55
Stskeepswat07:58
Stskeepsjussi: change language to english, then log in, then change to fi07:58
Pnuuwalokra: could the NFC really account for that much of power drain?07:59
jussiStskeeps: it works to log in, but the registration was the issue07:59
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Stskeepsnod08:00
walokraPnuu: the article thinks so and what I read from twitter08:05
Pnuuseems legit08:06
TemeV2%/hour would be something like 42 mA08:07
TemeVsounds quite much for me08:08
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Stskeepsperhaps a scenario where it kept the device awake too08:08
Pnuubut hay, it's 42 so the answer must be correct!08:09
Pnuubut what was the question..?-)08:09
TemeVwikipedia says NFC uses 15mA08:10
TemeVit says nothing about voltage though08:10
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CoderCandyYaay my phone is in sweden!08:18
CoderCandyIt should arrive in 7 hours08:18
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rauzhi08:19
jussiCoderCandy: nice christmas present08:20
PnuuI'll test by turning the nfc daemon off08:21
CoderCandyTo myself yes!08:21
* Stskeeps is waiting for his too, but it's not on a delivery truck yet :(08:21
jussiStskeeps: so thats what you got me for christmas!! Nice....08:21
Stskeepsjussi: no :P08:21
jussiStskeeps: awww08:21
rauzi have my jolla now for 4days and i must say it is as nice as i thought it would be :)08:22
Stskeepsrauz: cool08:22
ShadowJKMine might be at the local grocery store now, or not. They're kinda lazy to scan the code08:22
rauzyep and now it's time to write some native apps08:22
jussiStskeeps: Im looking forward to the android integration - then I can have it on whatever HW I want (like my note 2...)08:23
Stskeepsi'm looking forward to more coffee08:23
jussiStskeeps: its still that much work that you can only think of coffee when I mention it? :/08:25
Stskeepsjussi: naah.08:26
rauzi'm sitting in the train to travel to my parrents for the hollydays and the internet on the train is absolutly terrible08:26
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Stskeepson a fedex vehicle \o/08:30
Pnuu:-)08:30
jussirauz: are you in finland? sounds normal...08:31
rauznope austria08:31
Stskeepsin .dk, we have terrible train iwif08:31
Stskeepswifi08:31
Stskeeps.. and they charge us for it08:31
Stskeeps:P08:31
rauzin austria its free but doesnt work realy poorly08:32
ln-doesn't work really poorly, so it works relatively well?08:32
rauzand the blocked a few sites like plus.google.com so i have to use tor software and that makes it even slower08:32
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rauzln-: doesn't work realy well08:33
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* ShadowJK wonders what will happen to .fi train wifi, as their uplink provider went bust08:36
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Stskeepsarrived \o/08:44
Pnuuyay!08:44
Waiteeyayy!08:45
Stskeeps(14 mins after being on a delivery vehicle.. that's practically a record)08:48
TriztHmmm... strange I can't connect to protected wlan, never get the question for password, before the last update I did get a request for password08:49
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TriztStskeeps: you have an idea how to connect to a protected wlan?08:50
PnuuTrizt: which security?08:51
TriztWPA SP.. I think, don't have my N900 here so can't check08:51
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nanderMy jolla has left amersfoort ;).08:52
nanderIt's getting closer to me by the minute!08:53
Triztnander: I hope it wont take another tour around europe, mine was twice in destination country08:54
ggabrielmorning08:54
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Waiteemorning08:56
Waiteehttp://i.imgur.com/baxNPRC.jpg08:57
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ggabrielmy jolla should be arriving today :)08:59
Waitee:309:00
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nanderTritzt, it states it's on a fedex vehicle for delivery09:07
nanderAnd Amersfoort is probably the closest fedex location09:08
ggabrielmine is still at the local fedex facility :)09:08
Pnuuthat NFC shutdown seems to lower the power consumption a lot!09:09
ggabrielbut they estimate delivery today, so...09:09
nanderMine never arrived in Amersfoort ;)09:09
nanderI think they sometimes forget to scan09:09
ggabrielindeed :)09:09
nanderMine left paris twice, 3 hours apart, without returning in paris ;)09:10
nanderAnd 30 hours later it suddenly left amersfoor09:10
nanderAmersfoort09:10
nanderWhich is about 1 to 2 hours away from enschede by car\09:10
nander1 hour 12 shortest path09:10
Pnuunander: maybe it was in two pieces?-)09:11
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ggabrielPnuu: lol09:11
nanderbut fedex probably has to stop a few times on the way09:11
nanderthe other half separately :D09:11
nanderOr maybe it's a quantumfysical device09:11
nanderIt both has and hasn't left paris09:11
ggabrieli only hope that that the fedex guy doesn't get fed up and returns to the sorting facility saying that i wasn't at home09:11
zuttoi'd be more worried wether the package survives the fedex guys hand09:12
zuttothey are known to.. handle packages without care :P09:12
ggabrieli only saw that in the usa to be honest09:13
stephgzutto: it's well wrapped up, don't worry09:13
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zuttoggabriel: oh dont worry, its not just in usa09:13
nanderI hope jolla sent it with some spare air in the box ;)09:13
zuttoand its not just fedex either09:13
ggabrielzutto: :)09:13
nanderSome other companies 'displace' packages09:13
vegaiso yeah, I removed the NFC sticker yesterday09:14
nanderLuckily finland and the netherlands are among the least corrupt countries in the world ;)09:14
zuttonander: are you sure about that?09:14
vegaibattery drain during night was about 3-5%, compared to previous 20-40%09:14
zuttofinland is only known as not-so-corrupted cause we dont have anyone who would investigate corruptions09:14
nanderOn a local level, yes09:14
ggabrielvegai: wow, hopefully you didn't break it09:14
nanderOn a political level..09:14
vegaiggabriel: break what?09:14
zuttobut our politicians are quite corrupted actually09:14
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nanderZutto, that's everywhere09:15
ggabrielvegai: the sticker09:15
zuttowell, corrupted as in they take bribes09:15
ggabrielnot that it matters too much09:15
zuttoyuh09:15
nanderHere we have a politician whose phone was tapped during a criminal investigation and the data got lost..09:15
nanderImagine, evidence just 'got lost'..09:15
zuttoLol09:15
zutto:D09:15
nanderThese kind of things make me feel ashamed of my nationality..09:16
vegaiggabriel: ah, no. I don't think so. What does it matter, though? The other half is a rather useless gimmick09:16
nanderPoliticians doing shit like that and getting away with it09:16
vegaiat least for me personally09:16
nanderDoes the white OTH have a nfc chip?09:16
vegaimine did09:16
ggabrielvegai: yeah, but i read that you could have just shut down the service09:16
nandervegai, it CAN do awesome stuff09:16
nanderBut at the moment it doesn't09:16
ggabrielall white/poppy red oh's have stickers09:16
nanderkeyboard oth, gamepad oth, e-ink oth09:17
nanderAll possible09:17
vegainander: Yes, those seem interesting, I agree.09:17
nanderwhy does white have it?09:17
vegaiwhy wouldn't it?09:17
nanderbecause it doesn't do anything special?09:17
ggabrielso that you can change ambiance i guess09:17
nanderYawn09:17
ggabrieli suppose at some point you'll be able to configure what ambiance you want depending on which other half you are using09:18
ggabrielyeah, yawn, agree :P09:18
vegaiggabriel: ah, well. Just the same, I only have one cover and the feature that changes ambience automatically by the cover has approx. 0 value for me :)09:18
ggabrieli'm just answering :)09:18
ggabrielvegai: yeah, agree. same here09:18
vegaithe sad part is that probably none of the people who reviewed the phone knew about this09:19
ggabrielyeap, they should fix it pretty soon09:20
ggabrielit's good news though, as the device has a promising battery life then09:20
ggabrielfrom the mailing list:09:21
ggabriel- With tohd on, wlan on, screen off, logged in via SSH - 982mW09:21
ggabriel- With tohd off, wlan on, screen off, logged in via SSH - 552mW09:21
ggabriel...and i think wlan has a few battery issues too09:21
Pnuu30 minutes with NFC daemon off and still 100 %09:22
Waiteenice09:22
Pnuuwlan and mobile data on09:23
Kiranosnice to see the community reaching out and triangulating this issue, very nice when jolla as its a small company has limited QA09:23
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ggabrielKiranos: oh, i'm sure they qa it09:23
ggabrielbut battery is quite tricky :)09:23
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ggabrielthen again, they could use powertop09:24
ggabrieland have some baseline as to what each system service ought to consume09:24
ggabrielbut yeah, it's nice, it should be fixed very soon09:24
Kiranosggabriel: dont think there is much more QA than developers finding bugs and reporting them09:24
Kiranosand dont blame them09:24
Kiranosas its geared towards nerds :)09:24
vegaihas this issue been officically reported to them?09:24
stephgvegai if it's on the mailing list they'll see it09:25
ggabrielvegai: one of the bosses tweeted about it :)09:25
vegaiok, that's promising :)09:25
Tofemorning!09:25
ShadowJKpowertop probably wouldn't catch toh09:25
ggabrielthey even said something along the lines of "great that the community foun this bug, we can do this together" or something09:25
vegaiwell, stuff like this happens09:25
vegaithe first windows phones had atrocious battery drain09:25
vegaialso the first versions of ios709:26
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ggabrielvegai: first? ios5 broke mine and they never fixed it09:26
vegaiios5 already? Huh09:27
ggabrielios4 was ok09:27
ggabrielmind you, i never cared too much :)09:27
ggabrieli'm still on ios6 as i can't be asked to read the t&c's again09:27
vegaiperhaps... but also just jumping from ios6 => 7 halved battery life for my iphone509:27
vegaiI'm not even sure if they ever fixed it, since I don't care that much about that phone09:28
ggabrielvegai: i'm talking about an iphone 409:28
Waiteei never had an iPhone09:28
vegaiit's my work phone :P09:28
ggabrielvegai: same :)09:28
ggabrieli'll change it when they provide with a 4g/lte version09:28
ggabrieland i'll change my contract for a tethering one09:28
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Tofeoh, did I just read that great battery improvement may come from fixing a bit the nfc daemon ?09:28
ggabrielTofe: yeap :)09:29
Waiteehow do i disable the nfc daemon09:29
ggabriely think systemctl tohd.service stop09:29
TofeWaitee: I guess it's just a systemd service09:29
ggabrielbut somebody correct me, i haven't got a phone09:30
Tofeggabriel: one minute :)09:30
ggabriels/^y/i/g09:30
* ggabriel still asleep09:30
Tofeggabriel: yes, you are right, it's tohd09:31
ggabrielout of curiosity, do you need to be root to do that?09:31
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TofeI guess so09:32
ggabrieloh, i thought you've just done it09:32
Tofeyes, you have to be root09:32
ggabrielta09:32
ggabrielwoohoo, jolla on vehicle09:33
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piglettoWaitee: http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2013/12/jolla-battery-life-power-consumption.html check out the latest comments09:33
Waiteeggabriel: nice09:33
Tofeggabriel:  I just stopped it as root09:33
piglettoWaitee: there are commands to stop it09:33
Waiteepigletto: thanks09:33
Tofesystemctl stop tohd.service09:33
piglettoI did it a hour ago and still 99% :D09:33
sremesI removed the sticker last night, and still 94%09:35
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TofeI wonder if there would be a nice way to disable it without endangering future updates09:36
Tofea post-boot script ?09:37
spider-mario“On FedEx vehicle for delivery”09:38
spider-mario\o/09:38
celeron55okay, so no-TOH battery test result: 64%09:39
spider-mariofrom 65, right?09:39
spider-marioif I remember correctly09:39
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celeron55about 11:40 ago it was 65%09:39
celeron55that's ridiculously little, 1%?!09:40
celeron55it was 14% with it09:40
celeron55hmm09:40
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celeron55maybe it then had wifi on09:40
celeron55anyway, exact test specs: no wifi, no sim, no TOH, nothing; 1% in 12 hours09:40
celeron55i'll attach TOH now and see what then happens09:41
micko_I've had tohd.service stopped for 2 hours. battry went from 97 to 96 on idle09:41
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ggabrielTofe: yeah, thanks, also my command was wrong :)09:42
ggabrieli guess i'll do that as part of my bootstrapping process when i open the phone :)09:42
Tofemicko_: so it means it wouldn't help stopping it, right09:43
Tofeah no wait, it's actually quite good09:43
spider-mariooh, it’s that simple to disable it?09:43
spider-mariogood, I was a little worried09:43
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spider-marioI didn’t know it would just be a systemd unit to stop09:44
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Tofespider-mario: well, maybe it isn't sufficient, it may be that stopping the unit doesn't switch off the hw09:44
Stskeepsjust out of curiousity, where did you see the advice to run those commands?09:45
spider-marioso, it’s most likely a sw issue?09:45
spider-mariothat can be fixed in a oncoming update?09:45
TofeStskeeps: I got the idea from ggabriel :)09:45
stephgStskeeps here I think: http://reviewjolla.blogspot.com/2013/12/jolla-battery-life-power-consumption.html?showComment=1387768702509#c68686885966326168909:46
Stskeepsjust be careful with those things, if you get a device unbootable in developer mode, there's a high risk you have to pay for the reflashing service yourself09:46
Milo-that sounds interesting09:46
TofeStskeeps: yes, right now I'm only using commands that won't survive a reboot09:47
Stskeepsand always keep in mind that changes you do today may cause unexpected behaviour at an update09:47
Yanielan update today?09:48
Tofe:D09:48
Stskeepsno, santa doesn't work on the 23rd09:48
Milo-I was hoping on a jolla-update for christmas :)09:48
Yanielyah I'd just use systemctl stop to be  safe09:48
Tofean update on 25th ?09:48
Yanielunless I really know what's going on09:48
PnuuStskeeps: so update tomorrow?!09:49
walokrathe tinfoil trick should be safe09:49
TofeYaniel: even with just doing this, remember to reboot the device before starting an update09:49
Pnuu;-)09:49
Stskeeps..09:49
Stskeeps:P09:49
ggabrielStskeeps: appreciate the advice - and of course we should all start that service again before any sort of update09:49
YanielI need to reboot frequently enough anyway :D09:49
celeron55so does shutting down the service get rid of the battery consumption?09:49
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celeron55or is this still in testing09:50
Milo-"Don't need to remove TOH, just put tinfoil on the nfc receiver. " I love that suggestion :P09:50
Kiranosceleron55: from alot of testers thats a positive09:50
TofeYeah, it's a good idea to remind us where the edge is :p09:50
ggabrielMilo-: lol, that would actually work for most people without breaking anything09:50
Milo-so apple had problems with their antennas, and eventually gave in and provided some plastic covers.09:51
Kiranossystemctl stop tohd.service should be safe, just reboot and it will activate again09:51
Milo-will Jollla give in, and provide us with some special made tin foil?09:51
Stskeepswe prefer SW solutions09:51
Stskeeps:P09:51
ggabrielMilo-: that isn't true...09:51
ln-Milo-: e.g. a hat09:51
Milo-ln- 8)09:51
ggabrielthey provided with plastic covers for a while, then they gave even that up09:51
Waiteelol09:51
ggabriel(my iphone 4 still has the grip of death problem)09:52
Milo-ggabriel they still sell those though.09:52
ggabrielMilo-: yeah, but they used ot be for free, remember?09:52
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Venemo_N9hey09:52
Milo-no. apple and free doesn't ring a bell.09:52
* artemma is bravely shutting down tohd.service. Will see if it helps09:52
Waiteemy friends in finland who bought iphone4 had no issues with the grip of death09:52
Venemo_N9today is my lucky day!09:52
Milo-Waitee it's because we don't do 4G09:52
ggabrielWaitee: maybe good reception09:52
stephgVenemo_N9: \o/09:52
PnuuI did also the mask command09:52
ggabrielVenemo_N9: woohooo09:53
Venemo_N9fedex agreed to deliver my jolla to me today in Budapest!09:53
Waiteei guess so but the phone was way over hated because of the problem :D09:53
StskeepsVenemo_N9: yay!09:53
StskeepsVenemo_N9: i just got mine as well09:53
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Venemo_N9they're bringing it this afternoon between 15-1709:54
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, congrats :)09:54
TofeStskeeps: good timing indeed !09:54
ggabrielStskeeps: \o/09:54
KiranosStskeeps: the mask command should be safe, it shouldnt matter it the service ist stopped on future upgrades?09:55
Kiranoshttp://forum.jollausers.com/jolla-phone/culprit-for-bad-battery-life-found/09:55
Venemo_N9I'm now heading to see my exam results and then I'll start porting IRC Chatter!!09:55
stephgStskeeps: woohooo09:55
Kiranosif it might maybe post there09:55
StskeepsKiranos: everything can hhappen :P09:55
KiranosStskeeps: ok :) that thread will probably get a lot of traction so and official reply might be good09:55
Stskeepsjust warning that we can't expect everything when do we do upgrades09:55
TofeKiranos: we can't ask the devs to suppose the daemons can be in any state at the moment of the update :p09:55
KiranosTofe: it might have crashed :)09:56
CoderCandyWOO!09:56
CoderCandyFedEx just delivered my package09:57
CoderCandyat McDonalds...09:57
TofeKiranos: crash never happen. :p09:57
Waiteetried turning off the toh daemon09:57
StskeepsCoderCandy: big mac and a jolla!09:57
Stskeepssounds like a winner to me09:57
CoderCandyyeah xD09:57
Waiteei prefer hesburger09:57
Milo-hesburger has bad fries.09:58
Yanieloh morning Waitee09:58
Milo-and poor service.,09:58
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WaiteeYaniel: morning09:58
WaiteeMilo-: depends09:58
Waiteeat least in tampere keskustori i've always had better service in hesburger compared to neighbour macdonalds09:59
TofeNever go to a McDonalds in France, it's quite a pity omho09:59
celeron55they're local enterpreneurs so the brand doesn't matter that much09:59
Milo-takes forever for them to flip a burger :C09:59
Stskeepsat least burger king is in .fi now09:59
Waiteealso hesburger wasnt full of loud-ass teenagers10:00
Waiteeturned off the daemon10:00
Waiteebattery at 87%10:00
Waiteeunplugged10:00
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stephgMTV Jolla: unplugged10:00
Waitee3g on10:00
Waiteeariel rebel - unplugged10:01
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, thinking of IRC Chatter, it occours to me how you have a habbit of IRCing while on stage10:01
jussipesh, all those burger chains are rubbish. Kauppuri 5 in Oulu, now THATS the place to get a GOOD burger10:02
ottulojussi: I made a deal with a friend, he'll buy me a brgr there if I bike to Oulu10:03
Waiteejussi: Haitari in Hervanta10:03
Waiteeget the bacon burger10:03
jussiWaitee: not been there10:03
jussisounds good though10:03
Waiteeterrific!10:03
jussiottulo: I dont care if you are in australia, it would be worth it :D10:03
jussiottulo: go dust the bike off :)10:04
Waitee:D10:04
pp_jussi: cafe rooster is actually better :-)10:05
jussipp_: and where is cafe rooster?10:05
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, so don't worry, you'll soon be able to do it on da jolla10:05
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spider-mariothe best burgers are the home-made ones10:05
jussiand do they have a burger with pulled pork? :P10:05
pp_wooden building next to finnkino10:05
spider-mariowhere you can put whatever pleases you10:05
pp_yes they do (baconburger and pulled pork burger)10:06
pp_mind you, both are closed for xmas :-)10:06
spider-marioI like to put Saint Agur in mine10:06
spider-mario:)10:06
Waiteespider-mario: disagree, i want my burger assembled10:06
Pnuupulled pork burger in chico's was surprisingly good10:06
pp_they also have nasty problems that they run out of ingredients and you have to wait until they hand-cut your fries :-)10:06
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TofeVenemo_N9: cool :)10:07
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jussipp_: :D Sadly Im not located in Oulu anymore10:07
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Waiteeoh10:07
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TofeCan we be quite confident that some Jolla devs around here have taken notes about the observations on the battery ?10:07
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Waiteecrapbuster is a kickass script for popular channels10:08
stephgTofe: yep10:08
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Tofestephg: great :)10:08
Tofeit's really a very nice way to work like this10:09
Yanielagreed10:09
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CoderCandyno native IRC client for jolla?10:24
nanderThe nice thing about waiting for a package.. You do stuff you wouldn't do otherwise10:24
nanderLike: cleaning up ;)10:24
nanderssh + screen + irssi? :)10:24
spider-marionander : I just keep looking through my window every other minute. :D10:25
CoderCandyI like graphical IRC apps tbh10:25
spider-mariomaybe Quassel could be ported10:25
spider-marioon Android, I like Yaaic10:26
spider-mario(though it doesn’t save logs)10:26
PnuuCoderCandy: Venemo is going to port ircchatter10:26
CoderCandySweet10:26
CoderCandyI don't care about saving logs, since my bouncer does that for me10:26
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artemmadevice freezes for a few seconds every time I unlock it, then shown notification about "Disconnected" (WiFi? GPS?) and then it's fine again10:33
ggabrieljolla is in da house10:34
ggabrielnow i have to wrap it and put it under the tree10:35
* stephg wouldn't have the patience...10:35
Stskeepsartemma: upgraded device to 1.2 ye?10:35
Stskeepst10:35
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Stskeepser, 1.0.1.1210:35
artemma1.2?10:35
Pnuuggabriel: you are weird10:36
artemmaStskeeps: settings tell 1.0.1.1210:36
locusfis there a xmas update coming?10:36
Stskeepsartemma: ok10:36
ggabrielPnuu: i know10:36
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Pnuuggabriel: or maybe "normal", if considering from another point of view.. ;-D10:37
TofePnuu: not the dominant point of view around here, for sure10:37
ggabrielPnuu: i'll enjoy it better when we open the presents10:37
ggabrielmy inlaws will be arguing about stuff10:37
ggabrieli'll be playing with my brand new phone10:38
spider-mariolocusf : there will be a bug fix release before the end of 2013 but probably after christmas, if I understand correctly10:38
spider-mariothen a feature update in 201410:38
locusfspider-mario: ok10:38
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jussispider-mario: there was a quassel client for n9 and maemo iirc, maybe it could be revived10:44
spider-mariomaybe indeed10:45
skvarkis there support for bluetooth low energy/smart? I couldn't connect Jolla to a low energy module10:45
spider-mariowas it written with QtWidgets or QML?10:45
Kiranosspider-mario: jussi: anyone tried quasseldroid for android?10:45
jussiKiranos: use it pretty much every day10:45
jussispider-mario: qml I think10:45
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Stskeepsskvark: supposedly LE is there to some degree, have a chat with flux10:46
Kiranosnice so it works good on the jolla phone?10:46
Kiranosjussi: ^10:46
jussihttps://gitorious.org/quassel/quassel2go/10:46
spider-marioKiranos : iirc, it’s just the client, not the core, and I don’t have a machine running the core all the time10:46
spider-mario(though the Jolla is probably capable of that)10:46
CoderCandybiggest issue with jolla so far... No crappy headphones included!10:46
Kiranoshaving the core on a phone seems kinda silly :P10:46
spider-mario(perhaps even without rewriting a single line of code in quassel core)10:46
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fluxskvark, sudo hcitool lescan works (drop wlan while doing it), gatttool -b aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff --characteristic worked as well with TI SensorTag10:47
jussiKiranos: oh, I use it on android. not tried on jolla (sorry for the mis understanding)10:47
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fluxskvark, but Qt doesn't yet support BLE, so the support isn't there for the proper interfaces. (of course you can use bluez directly)10:47
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CoderCandyAh, at least jolla has the same pin setup as my headset!10:49
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skvarkflux: ok, I'll give it a look10:49
jubo2g'morning piippöls10:50
skvarkI have a ble112 module and it would be nice to get it work with jolla, could make virtual keychain etc.10:50
fluxI've used hcitool&gatttool with ble113, not via jolla though10:51
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fluxso I would expect it to work just fine10:51
skvarkyeah, thanks10:51
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nanderlol, they just added something done 4 hours ago10:53
nanderFedex is 'special'10:53
nanderThey know know it arrived at their local fedex office ;)10:53
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Kiranosjussi: ok thanks, would be nice to know if quasseldroid worked on a jolla phone10:56
CoderCandyHmm10:56
CoderCandyApparently local mp3 files don't work with spotify on Jolla10:56
CoderCandyAnd THERE it crashed...10:57
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KiranosCoderCandy: oh didnt know the android app had support for local files11:10
CoderCandyWell, it's jerky. You can sync local files from your PC11:10
CoderCandywhich I did11:10
Kiranoshttp://forum.jollausers.com/android-on-sailfish/problematic-android-apps-so-far-which-apps-are-causing-issues-solutions/11:10
CoderCandybut it refused to play the synced tracks11:11
KiranosCoderCandy: if you have enough energy it would be good if you posted there11:11
nander3 hours 5 min since it left the local fedex center11:11
nanderThey are taking their time ;)11:11
CoderCandyI'm probably gonna do all that stuff after christmas though :P11:11
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CoderCandyMan I'm unused to navigating Sailfish :P11:16
nanderDid you own an n9?11:16
CoderCandyno11:16
CoderCandyI had an n900 though11:16
CoderCandyskipped the n9 because no HW keyboard11:16
CoderCandyI wanted an n950 though11:17
* CoderCandy is hoping really hard for a HW keyboard OH11:17
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RaimCoderCandy: oh, nice to know Spotify can sync from the PC11:19
CoderCandyYeah, but it wont play on the Jolla :(11:20
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RaimCoderCandy: hm, right, just tried it :(11:21
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RaimCoderCandy: there is also CuteSpotify as native client in the making, but haven't tried it yet11:23
CoderCandyah, cool11:23
CoderCandyAnyone know how to disable the annoying "Don't listen to loud volume for extended period of times"-message?11:24
CoderCandyI have hardware volume control on my headset11:24
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CoderCandyWhy do I have a usb IP address?11:28
CoderCandyIs my charger connected to the internet or what?11:28
Stskeeps /msg w00t he's on to us11:29
Stskeepser, ignore me11:29
StskeepsCoderCandy: developer mode has a usb networking method at least11:29
KiranosCoderCandy: http://elinux.org/Jolla#How_to_connect_to_SSH_over_usb_connection_from_PC11:30
Waiteeyou can access the phone through usb via ssh i think11:30
WaiteeKiranos: too fast11:30
Waitee:D11:30
AJAX555Waitee: yes, one can access phone via ssh11:30
CoderCandyah11:31
WaiteeAJAX555: yes i know but havent tested through usb11:31
AJAX555I have11:31
CoderCandyOkie, it's just funny how the phone decided to get an USB address when it's connected to the charger, not a computer.11:31
StskeepsCoderCandy: you didn't plug in the cable well enough11:32
phdeswerCoderCandy: what do you mean? The ip in the developer mode setting is the one it *would* use if connected11:32
CoderCandyOh11:32
ln-CoderCandy: after seeing this a charger connecting to internet wouldn't be that surprising: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-2470733711:32
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Raimit did not get this IP address, it's configured statically11:33
CoderCandyln-, wtf?11:33
CoderCandyRaim, okie11:33
ShadowJKhey, I got Jolla beanie today11:35
ShadowJKbut no jolla yet :(11:35
vegaiis there some way to doawnload an mp3 to the device?11:35
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vegaidoesn't seem to work via the browser at least11:36
vegaido I need to go the dev mode and wget via shell:-S11:36
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vegaior bluetooth via my laptop perhaps11:37
AJAX555vegai: why not just connect to computer and transfer from there?11:37
CoderCandywhat's the ssh username I should use when connecting to the Jolla?11:38
Stskeepsnemo11:38
CoderCandythanks11:38
Tofeah, an option to quickly come back to the active app when double-tap would be nice11:39
CoderCandyTofe, yeah, I noticed that as well :P11:39
CoderCandyExcept for the local files, the android spotify works pretty well!11:40
CoderCandyI'm impressed with the android support actually :P11:40
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nanderRe-fucking-ceived!11:46
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Stskeepsnander: woop11:46
nanderIt's a nice phone11:47
ggabrielnander: congrats11:47
nanderincomplete, but full of potential11:47
nanderJolla employees, feel free to feel proud of it ;)11:47
ggabrielload of kudos actually11:47
AJAX555I just can't wait to get keyboard other half to it11:48
Stskeepsit wouldn't be much fun if we didn't have to polish it a bit ;)11:48
ggabrielthe box is really nice :P11:48
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, what kind of polishing can we expect?11:49
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StskeepsVenemo_N9: SW naturally, hw can't be improved beyond what TOH interfaces allows11:49
nanderI found one slight disadvangate over the n9 design11:49
nanderThe location of the power button11:49
AJAX555power button is useless anyway11:50
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, surely but SW is a very broad term11:50
AJAX555except when you turn the phone off or on11:50
ggabrielnander: why do you think it's a disadvantage?11:50
Venemo_N9is there a public roadmap or list of promised features?11:50
ggabrielsurely it's easier to turn the volume up and down easier while on a call11:50
nanderYes, but on the n9 both were reachable easily11:50
nanderNow just the volume11:51
ggabriel(maybe harder to take a picture with the power button in between though)11:51
ggabrieloh, ok, i don't know how easy it will be11:51
nanderIt seems it's less happy to ruin my music than my n9 was ;)11:51
nanderWhich could mean an inferior antenna11:51
w00thnnng11:52
ggabrieldefine "ruin my music"11:52
w00tI just spent half a minute wondering why my mouse cursor wasn't moving11:52
w00tonly to find I'd unplugged it11:52
* w00t does the herp derp dance11:52
StskeepsVenemo_N9: i think something like that will come with the together.jolla.com approach11:52
nandergrrrzzzrrzzzrrzzz11:52
Stskeepsit wouldn't be much of co-creation if people couldn't help decide11:53
Venemo_N9okay11:53
Stskeepsie, roadmap set 100% in stone11:53
nanderggabriel, do you understand that one?11:53
nanderAnnoying noises caused by the phone11:53
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ggabrielwhile you play music you mean?11:53
Venemo_N9on a different note, is it at the moment possible to do contacts / calendar syc on the jolla?11:54
nanderof course11:54
ggabrielor close to other electronic equipment (i.e., interference)?11:54
nanderinterference11:54
ggabrielright11:54
ggabrieli get you now11:54
nanderit's less of an issue than it was with my n911:54
nanderI remember throwing my n9 to my bed, because it was getting too annoying11:54
Venemo_N9ie. does it support google contacts?11:54
nanderI couldn't keep it in my pocket or on my desk11:54
Venemo_N9nander, wired music or wireless?11:55
nanderwired11:55
tbrVenemo_N9: I do calendar sync through MfE, as google apps supports active sync :/11:55
Venemo_N9tbr, google stopped supporting activesync a few months ago IIRC11:56
CoderCandyCool, just got google play to work11:56
tbrVenemo_N9: still works if you pay for it, hence me mentioning 'google apps'11:56
tbrthey stopped offering it to free accounts in january11:57
WaiteeCoderCandy: worth the pain?11:57
Venemo_N9tbr, oh, those f***in bastards11:57
tbrVenemo_N9: there is also some workaround where you subscribe to your google calendar from an outlook.com account11:57
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Venemo_N9tbr, anyway, can the jolla connect to any contacts or calendar service that is not activesync?11:58
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nanderI'm leaving, I'll be back later ;)11:58
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tbrI think not at the moment, but that's AFAIU an not so hard thing, so hopefully coming soon™11:58
tbrif someone wants to help with buteosync(?) then go ahead11:59
mikhasis there any advice to those who haven't even gotten tracking numbers yet?11:59
mikhasshould I ask for a refund?12:00
ggabrielmikhas: a lot of people are complaining, but jolla did say 3-4 weeks12:00
ggabrielin my case they delivered in time12:00
Venemo_N9tbr, do you know of any FOSS solution that can output activesync?12:00
Venemo_N9mikhas, what's the status of your order?12:00
tbrVenemo_N9: nope12:01
ggabrielmikhas: also, if you are "in picking", suggest you check the fedex page (if you aren't in finland)12:01
tbrthere is a workaround if you use your order number and the fedex advanced search12:01
Azogi good my order number and the package more or less at the same time12:02
Azogeven got12:02
ggabriellol12:04
ggabrielI've just read "It is rumored that when Jolla fixes the nfc bug, the lifetime of the phone will jump from 48 hours to 500 hours"12:04
ggabrielsorry, "almost 500 hours"12:04
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Stskeepsunicorns and ponies will be delivered, too12:05
locusfit has improved after getting rid of the nfc tag12:05
* artemma hopes not the modern unicorns (hippos)12:05
ggabrielStskeeps: sadly, mine came without12:05
ggabriellocusf: i can appreciate the improvement12:06
CoderCandyWaitee, totally. There is a specific app I want that seems to work perfectly!12:06
ggabrielbut 500 hours using the device i think it very unlikely12:06
ggabrieljolla.com says 500 hours btw, but that's "standby"12:06
ggabriel:)12:06
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* artemma wants offline maps for his SpB trip tomorrow. Sadly yandex mobile website tells me to choose phone model for downloading Navigator (that has offline maps) and.. that particular yandex website doesn't work on Jolla - http://m.ya.ru/ynavi12:07
artemmamenu can be browsed, but not clicked12:07
tbrartemma: get google maps and make it download areas?12:08
tbror get osmand12:09
artemmatbr: I don't see step-by-step instructions for gmaps and being in a hurry for a trip can only follow easy steps now12:09
Venemo_N9can the jolla import from vcard?12:09
tbrVenemo_N9: yes12:09
tbrVenemo_N9: if you have many contacts cat them all to one file12:09
Venemo_N9will do12:09
tbrartemma: there are, look for play store on jolla12:10
Venemo_N9also, if I copy ~30GB of music directly to the sd card and then insert it into the jolla, will it manage to find the music?12:11
Waiteeatbleast not by default12:14
Waitee-b*12:14
tbrIIRC tracker should find it?12:14
TriztVenemo_N9: saw someone this morning say it didn't detect music on SD card, just image/video (those two works for me at least)12:15
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Venemo_N9srsly?12:16
Venemo_N9NOOOOOOOOOOOOO12:16
Venemo_N9can it be hacked to work?12:17
Triztbut symlink the directory from the SD to the Music directory on the device, should "work"12:17
phdeswerVenemo_N9: just try. Pretty sure it should work12:17
CoderCandyHmm, no camera for andoid apps?12:18
Venemo_N9the only reason I bought a 64gb microsd is to bring ALL my music with me always12:19
mikhasno good dataplan?12:19
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Venemo_N9how's this related to dataplan?12:20
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mikhaswell, there are those offers for spotify for instance12:21
Triztmikhas: they don't have everything, damn I miss a proper recordplayer so I can get my LP's to mp312:21
mikhasTrizt, I know that feeling :-(12:22
Triztthat would be a nice second half ;)12:22
Venemo_N9mikhas, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard12:23
mikhasTrizt, a Technics MKII?12:23
mikhasnot sure it fits the form factor12:23
Triztwhy not12:23
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Triztwould lok cool, the one time you display it to your freinds12:24
mikhaswell ok, storing my stuff on my phone so I can carry it around sound about right in 2009, but for 2014?12:24
mikhasI used to store movies on my n900, not music12:24
mikhas(been using that TV adapter from my ps2 to stream directly from my n900 to tv)12:25
Kiranosnetflix :)12:25
Triztmikhas: still the operators charge too much for data trafic and has a lot of limits and then security on cloud solution, just ain't up to par with 201412:25
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mikhasKiranos, precisely12:25
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Kiranosnetflix and wifi, almost all hotels etc where you stay has free wifi12:25
Kiranosalso trains etc12:25
mikhasyep12:26
Venemo_N9mikhas, having to use network for listening to music in unacceptable to me12:26
mikhasotherwise it's a lot of boring data management stuff, for making sure you always the right stuff on yoru device, for your next trip etc12:26
* Trizt agrees with Venemo_N912:26
zuttowhy is that unacceptable mikhas?12:26
zuttoerr, not mikhas i mean Venemo_N912:26
ggabrielwhat if you don't have network? :D12:27
mikhasbut a phone is -- fundamentally -- *always* networked12:27
zuttoi listen trought network always, all my music is stored safely at home12:27
zuttoggabriel: havent met such time yet12:27
mikhasthat's the main idea of a mobile phone12:27
ggabrielso you don't catch the underground? :)12:27
zuttoggabriel: i do12:27
zuttobut we have 3g underground too12:27
ggabrielthere are places where there isn't12:27
zuttowell, i havent been to such place yet12:27
ggabrieland that's one exmaple12:27
mikhasfine, so all you need is time-shift recording for your phone/music12:27
Triztthe problem is still the price and the limtation when you don't have wifi12:27
ggabrielthere are places in the world where you have no network12:27
zuttoso far, there has always been 3g available for me12:27
zuttosure12:28
zuttoin finland there isnt any tho12:28
ggabrieli agree with venemo too12:28
Triztzutto: never been down in the basement?12:28
ggabrieldon't want to pay/watch ads to listen to my music12:28
zuttoTrizt: i live in basement12:28
zuttolol12:28
Venemo_N9zutto, battery life is one issue, another is network speed in certain areas12:28
Triztthe more users the slower speed12:29
Kiranoswell the fundamental idea behind a smart phone is stay connected always imo12:29
* Trizt should be working12:29
zuttowell the transmission is around 10-20kbps, so the network speed shouldnt be issue long as you dont go down to gprs12:29
zuttobattery life might be issue tho12:29
ggabrieluhm... i'd like my phone to work properly disconnected as well12:29
ggabrielthat's why i love nokia maps12:29
smokex^12:29
ggabrielthere are other considerations as roaming charges and what not12:30
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zuttowell we dont have those here12:30
zutto..yet atleast12:30
smokexmaps and cameras was the best thing about nokia12:30
ggabrielzutto: when you travel to the US, i'm sure you pay roaming12:30
Yanielmusic on sd card works flawlessly here12:30
zuttoi12:30
zuttoi'm not planning to travel to US anytime soon12:30
zuttoits one of the places in the world i avoid12:30
ggabrielthat's cool12:30
ggabrielit was an example as well12:30
ggabrielsome people like/use spotify12:30
smokexdid microsoft buy the camera division or is it still possible for other companies such as jolla to lease the camera hardware12:30
Yanieljust 1gb card since I don't have any other yet but it works12:31
ggabrielsmokex: good question, was wondering that myself12:31
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ggabrielnot sure whether camera is part of "adv technologies"12:31
zuttoi could guess it is12:31
phdeswersmokex: afaik Microsoft has the camera stuff too. And why would they sub-license their main selling point?12:31
zuttophdeswer: nokia has sublicensed alot of things12:32
zuttoand with alot i really mean alot12:32
smokex^^12:32
ggabrielthe difference is that if nokia still licenses it, then they could well license it to jolla12:32
Venemo_N9always connected != constantly transmitting12:32
zuttoVenemo_N9: well you dont have to constantly transmit if you dont want to12:33
phdeswerzutto: sure. But the camera is the main (and almost only ) reason why people still by Nokia phones.12:33
zuttoyou can always make complicated buffer setups to prebuffer certain amount12:33
zuttoand then cut the connection until buffer runs out ;P12:33
zuttophdeswer: good point12:33
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ggabrielzutto: i'd rather my music :)12:33
ggabrielin fact, i'd rather both options12:34
zuttoi was tempted to buy the nokias fancy 40 megapixel-something phone just cause of the camera12:34
zuttoggabriel: yep, they're both very available options12:34
zuttoif you dont like streaming, dont stream12:34
Venemo_N9zutto, also, if there's no 3g on the train because of my shitty operator, i still want to listen to music12:34
Venemo_N9so, streaming it is not an option12:35
zuttofor you it might not be12:35
zuttobut here, if you can receive phone calls, you can also listen to streams12:35
smokexthe actual company nokia is no longer selling phones12:35
zuttoif you go to bomb shelters or something they might be lacking 3g/4g connection depending on the shelter12:35
smokexMicrosoft baught the rights to use the brand for 5 years I think?12:36
smokexthen the brand can be used by the real company again12:36
smokexMicrosoft baght the mobile division12:36
smokexI'm pretty sure that didn't include the camera software and patents12:37
smokexand hardware12:37
Venemo_N9zutto, I don't live in such a civilized country12:37
zuttodo you mind if i ask where you live?12:37
Venemo_N9zutto, I live in Budapest, Hungary12:39
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zuttoi see12:40
Venemo_N9the network is okay-ish in Budapest and other bigger cities but there's barely 2G on the roads12:40
zuttowell that sucks12:40
Venemo_N9agreed12:40
Raimwith Spotify you can also download playlists (requires paid premium account for usage on smartphone). overall it works pretty well for me for some months now, as I mostly listen to a playlist of my recent favorite songs.12:41
Venemo_N9not everyone here is as addicted to being online on the go as me :P so there's no reason to build 3G on a trainline12:41
Venemo_N9fortunately, there's 3G available on the metro in Budapest :)12:42
* artemma wants to have his Flashlight app submitted yesterday to be reviewed today. Does anybody know how long is the review queue roughly?12:43
mikhasVenemo_N9, even on line 1?12:43
artemmaor if anybody is reviewing at all during pre-Christmas time?12:43
* SpeedEvil is quite willing to review apps for a small fee.12:43
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mikhasOTOH, Budapest is a very nice city if it werent for all the tourists like me ;-)12:44
tbrartemma: reduced man power over the holidays12:44
mikhassanta is reviewing12:44
Venemo_N9mikhas, I haven't checked, rarely use line 1; it works on lines 2 and 312:44
artemmaI guess reduced predictability too..12:44
mikhasit's just that line 1 feels too ancient to have any of that modern stuff12:44
mikhasand let's not talk about line 4 ;-)12:44
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Venemo_N9mikhas, line 2 is ancient too and they could install 3G equipment12:45
Venemo_N9mikhas, do you also happen to live here? ;)12:46
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mikhasVenemo_N9, no but I considered moving there12:48
mikhasthere is a direct train connection Berlin-Budapest, very convenient12:48
Venemo_N9mikhas, it's a nice place IMO12:49
mikhasyep!12:49
mikhasthe better version of vienna12:49
mikhas(if you consider them twin cities)12:49
Venemo_N9provided you can get used to a crowded big city12:49
Venemo_N9haven't been to Vienna yet so can't compare12:49
Kiranosoffline gps maps is my exception that warrants the rule, on vacation out of the country it sucks that android only allows online map / directions12:50
Kiranosand I really dislike jolla going the same way12:50
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SpeedEvilKiranos: It's not a choice.12:50
SpeedEvilKiranos: The price for offline maps tends to be _murderous_.12:51
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Kiranosok that sucks, how does openstreetview do it?12:51
Kiranosthe user could download the map by himself when having wifi12:52
SpeedEvilThe problem is rights.12:52
SpeedEvilFor OSM - there is no problem as the terms explicitly permit it.12:52
SpeedEvilFor all commercial map vendors - the cost to download maps offline is very high - if it's even permitted at all12:53
SpeedEvilOSM is very variable however.12:53
TofeSpeedEvil: I understand, though it seems a very artificial price12:53
SpeedEvilIt's just as artificial as the price of bread.12:54
SpeedEvilSend a lot of vans round the country and digitise everything, then hire a lot of data entry people to add the names, and you too can have feee maps.12:54
TofeI mean, the average user will never print or redistribute its maps anyway, and the cracker/industrial could as well download automatically all the tiles12:54
SpeedEvilTofe: The very issue is Jolla.12:54
SpeedEvilIf Jolla could legally sell a device with offline maps, it would increase sales somewhat.12:55
zuttowhy does it matter even if someone distributes the maps?12:55
SpeedEvilThe map companies want a slice of that revenue.12:55
Venemo_N9seems like someone needs to write an openstreetmap app12:55
smokexwhats stopping a 3rd party from making an open source - open street maps app that downloads the maps for offline use12:55
SpeedEvilsmokex: Nothing,.12:55
Tofesmokex: osmand exists12:56
smokexonce again we think alike Venemo_N9 :)12:56
SpeedEvilsmokex: Other than the fact that OSM data is somewhat variable - while good in many regions and countries - in others it's a complet joke.12:56
zuttomeh12:56
smokexwell its open so that issue can be resolved12:56
zuttojust get tomtoms12:56
zuttoif you really want offline maps that badly ;l12:57
smokexI was checking out russia on google maps12:57
ggabrieli'll keep my n9 for offline maps12:57
ggabrieluntil modrana or similar get better12:57
smokexseems the russian street view is badly in need of improvement12:57
SpeedEvilsmokex: 'resolving' the issue doesn't help if you're trying to get somewhere with no maps.12:57
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SpeedEvilsmokex: Plus, it's actually illegal to do this in some countries. China, for example.12:57
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smokexthe whole east side of russia is un-surveyed even though you can see most of the roads on the satellite images12:58
Venemo_N9smokex,  :)12:59
Venemo_N9it's a shame fk_lx is not around he knows about this maps stuff more12:59
* SpeedEvil was very involved in openstreetmap.13:00
AL13N_lizzymaybe it would be better to have some sort of automatic analyzing feature, from GPS coordinates and pictures and satellite images13:00
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* SpeedEvil did most of the road network in Fife.13:00
smokexautomatic analyzing would have to be off in some countries where its illegal as speedevil said13:01
SpeedEvilAL13N_lizzy: Getting images which you have the rights to derive information from can be surprisingly expensive, for that very reason.13:01
AL13N_lizzycan you imagine a nav app that says, please stop the car and take various pictures :-)13:01
SpeedEvilSatellite images.13:01
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SpeedEvilIt is _much_ more expensive to get an image with the rights to make derivitive works - which a map is - than to just get the bare image for use as clipart or whatever.13:02
ggabrielSpeedEvil: what you say is sad considering that the UK gave google maps+info for free not so many months ago13:02
AL13N_lizzythe OSM nav app should have a "help" mode, where the nav app requests you to take various pictures to derive roads from it13:02
SpeedEvilggabriel: I'm not sure what you mean. Certain Ordinance Survey information was released so that it was free for use.13:03
ggabrielSpeedEvil: not sure about the specifics, but basically altitude info + path maps were given for free so that google can derive cycling routes easily13:04
AL13N_lizzythe nav app would draw a frame to see what picture at what direction is required ( compass13:04
ggabrielunsure about the terms though, but I haven't seen downloadable content from google yet13:04
AL13N_lizzy+ elevation)13:04
SpeedEvilGoogle tends not to make downloadable content ever.13:05
SpeedEvilYou can access it online with ads - great.13:05
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SpeedEvilAny other uses tend to be really limited.13:05
ggabrielthat's kind of my point... they get stuff for free, do a little work, give you a cool product and saves your position for ever13:05
ggabrielanywsay13:05
ggabrieli'd buy a "nokia maps" application with offline maps if it were available13:06
ggabrieli'm sure it will be much cheaper than a sat nav13:06
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ggabriels/will/would/13:06
AL13N_lizzysince there is a qt5-plugin-geoservices-nokia ; is there also a qt5-plugin-geoservices-osm ?13:07
AL13N_lizzycan anyone check?13:08
tabasko_how I search installed packages with pkcon?13:09
tbrpkcon search name foobar13:09
SpeedEvil'Here maps' http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006T3BHN6/ref=mas_ya_dp used to be available on the amazon appstore13:10
SpeedEvilIt did not allow significant offline downloading13:10
tabasko_AL13N_lizzy: qt5-plugin-geoservices-osm is available on default repos, but not installed as default13:11
SpeedEvilhttp://here.com/download - I see they now don't do other than windows phones13:11
SpeedEvilWhat a surprise13:11
AL13N_lizzytabasko_: interesting13:11
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AL13N_lizzySpeedEvil: the N9 has some kind of hidden support page for enabling offline maps ?13:15
SpeedEvilhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-Wuerzburg-GmbH-NAVIGON-Central/dp/B00CC1RRS8/ref=sr_1_1?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1387804493&sr=1-1&keywords=navigon13:15
SpeedEvilAL13N_lizzy: I don't know13:16
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tabasko_AL13N_lizzy: in N9 it wasnt very hidden if you mean that. Options -> offline maps -> download maps13:17
AL13N_lizzySpeedEvil: here.com/download --> N9 --> "Go to support page for offline use of apps"13:17
SpeedEvilah13:17
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SpeedEvilno idea if that works13:17
AL13N_lizzybut there is no link to this support page or whatever13:17
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Venemo_N9any advice for when I first turn the jolla on?13:22
SpeedEvilVenemo_N9: Do it behind a blast shield, remotely.13:23
Venemo_N9I heard some people had issues when turning it on with the LE TOH, or was that just hoax?13:23
SpeedEvilWearing nipple clamps for extra protection.13:23
anacron:--D13:23
Waiteetry not to masturbate on it13:23
SpeedEvilMore seriously.13:23
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Venemo_N9lol13:23
SpeedEvilTOH seems in some cases (including mine) to increase battery usage dramatically.13:23
SpeedEvilBut - this can be fixed with a power cycle, and removing the RFID sticker.13:24
SpeedEvil(there are probably more sensible fixes)13:24
ggabrielSpeedEvil: you can shut down tohd.service13:24
Waiteeor just by disabling the toh daemon13:24
SpeedEvilLike that.13:24
ggabrieljolla's official message is "wait for the fix" :)13:24
SpeedEvilI hadn't gone into the software.13:24
ggabrielso if you disable it, remember to enable it before you update next13:24
Venemo_N9ggabriel, does that also reduce power usage?13:24
macmaNhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1399853&postcount=227513:24
ggabrielVenemo_N9: i don't know personally, but it's been reported...13:25
SpeedEvilOr just pull off the sticker - which is easy to do13:25
macmaNi'm pretty sure i'm seeing monstrous battery life improvement disabling tohd13:25
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ggabrielSpeedEvil: you may break it, if you don't care about it, go for it :)13:25
SpeedEvilggabriel: Does the sticker have any actual data in it - or just an ID.13:25
zbenjaminthe phone unlocks really easy even inside a pocket. i called my dad at 3:45 am last weekend. Good that he leaves his phone out of the sleeping room13:25
ggabrielSpeedEvil: i have no clue, but again, jolla at some point said it was an ID13:25
DeeGee_add only one account at a time. at least for me the account settings screen either jumped by itself to next/last screen or by slightest touch. and it forgot what i had already input.13:26
AardSpeedEvil: there's an id on it. you break it, you loose the additional content13:26
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AL13N_lizzythe NFC tag has actual data13:26
Aardso the tinfoil variant is safer, until a fix is out13:26
AL13N_lizzyor at least the option for it13:26
SpeedEvilI guess a tiny tinfoil patch will work13:26
ggabrielyou can't store too much in that tag anyway13:26
SpeedEvilhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Clear-NFC-Tags-Stickers-25mm-Round-NXP-NTAG203-All-Mobiles-Tablets-/271279788892?pt=UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL&hash=item3f2989135c - on stickers13:26
ggabrielSpeedEvil: that was the other option13:26
Venemo_N9disabling a systemd service sounds way nicer than tinfoil or breaking things13:27
ortylpis there a way to turn off completely this NFC crap?13:27
AL13N_lizzywhy not just "systemctl stop tohd.service"13:27
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Venemo_N9Aard, is there actually any content in there?13:27
ggabrielok, i'll bring my rfid reader this xmas and read the other half13:28
AardVenemo_N9: no13:28
AL13N_lizzyVenemo_N9: http://www.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/1t9xtv/jolla_white_the_other_half_nfc_contents/13:28
ggabrielor at least try to13:28
tbrthe tags in ToH I've seen are Mifare Ultralights with 137 byte capacity, but it only uses the UUID13:28
AardVenemo_N9: though the id of the tag is stored13:28
Venemo_N9Aard, so what does he lose exactly if he breaks it?13:28
tbrthere are larger NFC tags ofc13:28
AL13N_lizzyggabriel: ^^13:28
ggabrielAL13N_lizzy: aye13:29
ggabrieli'll do it again anyway because it's fun13:29
ggabriel:D13:29
tbrVenemo_N9: the possibility to activate the associated content when putting on ToH13:29
AL13N_lizzythe best thing is that it's open and you can probably do something with it yourself13:29
ortylpisn't it better to turn all radio devices off if not used/needed?13:29
zbenjaminbtw shouldn't there be a own ambience for the white cover?13:29
Aardzbenjamin: there is13:29
Venemo_N9tbr, yes but Aard just said there's no such content13:29
AL13N_lizzyi suspect that later upgrades might make use of the tags13:29
zbenjaminAard: i don't have one :/13:30
tbrVenemo_N9: no, you misunderstood13:30
AardVenemo_N9: the store knows the id of the tag, and hands out the content13:30
tbrVenemo_N9: associated is the keyword13:30
zbenjaminAard: only for my LE TOH it downloaded something13:30
Venemo_N9okay, but what is the associated content?13:30
crysazwas the devel-su password nemo?13:30
tbrcrysaz: settings13:30
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Aardzbenjamin: what happens if you attache the other one?13:31
AL13N_lizzyVenemo_N9: also, future updates could actually store something on TOH13:31
smokexthe LE TOH contained detailed hardware specifications for the TOH device13:31
AL13N_lizzyalso LE TOH, might get more associated content in the future13:31
AardVenemo_N9: currently I think only ambience + limited edition sound theme13:31
Venemo_N9Aard, also, is the NFC available to app developers?13:31
Aardthough we can add whatever we want at any point13:31
zbenjaminAard: well the red one will download a ambience, the white on i have to try if it does anything13:31
AardVenemo_N9: no13:31
smokexjust kidding13:31
Venemo_N9Aard, why not?13:32
AL13N_lizzythe devel ML said: "not yet"13:32
AardVenemo_N9: a) it's a pretty small antenna, so you might not pick up stuff outside of the backcover b) there's already an nfc tag in front of it13:32
Pnuuputting the TOH loads and sets the associated ambience, nothing more13:32
Venemo_N9Aard, oh :(13:33
Venemo_N9Pnuu, ah, ok13:33
tbrPnuu: that's what it does for the ToH that people have seen so far, yes.13:33
crysaztbr: apparently i have to enable remote ssh logins, to change the passwd13:33
AardVenemo_N9: I tried a few times before release, didn't manage to get it recognize tags that 'far' away13:33
tbrcrysaz: correct13:33
AL13N_lizzythe good thing is that if you have TOH on it/near, NFC cannot be tracked13:33
Pnuutbr: yeah, good addition :-)13:34
zbenjaminAard: weird now it works13:34
Venemo_N9Aard, is this likely to change in the future? would be awesome if it could eg. connect to an nfc enabled headset13:34
AL13N_lizzythough possibly you could remove TOH and use the NFC for bluetooth pairing if the phones are REALLY close?13:34
AardVenemo_N9: no promises there13:35
Aardbbl13:35
ggabrielVenemo_N9: i think the anteanna isn't that strong, so you probably need another other half13:36
smokexthats an awful lot of power consumption just to change abiences and track your wearabouts at grocery stores and airports13:36
AL13N_lizzyVenemo_N9: the one who wrote that link with TOH info, told me that he could pick up stuff from 2.5cm away, but it's probably gonna need A) firmware update B) TOH removal, to be able to use it for NFC pairing or whatnot13:37
* smokex goes to watch a conspiracy theory movie13:37
AL13N_lizzysmokex: the power consumption is probably a small bug13:37
Stskeepssmokex: just remember, reality is stranger than fiction13:37
ggabrielAL13N_lizzy: that's interesting13:37
smokexhah :D13:37
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AL13N_lizzyin a way, the TOH nearness actually prevents usage for something else, (and thus you're also safe from tracking :-) )13:38
ggabrielAL13N_lizzy: my thoughts exactly13:39
ggabrieli wasn't sure whether rfid can power 2 tags at the same time13:39
ggabrielor rather >1 tag13:39
ggabrielbut that could well depend on the antenna13:39
AL13N_lizzyi'm not sure either, it could be a firmware thing13:39
Venemo_N9AL13N_lizzy, I think it also depends on the antenna strength of the other device13:39
AL13N_lizzythe antenna is the reason you can't pick up things from more than 2.5cm away13:39
ggabrielanybody knows if this reddit guy used a tool in jolla or elsewhere?13:39
AL13N_lizzyprobably13:39
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ggabrieli mean, do we have something in userland that we can use to read the nfc tag?13:40
AL13N_lizzyggabriel: afaik he used a NFC reader13:40
ggabrielok13:40
Venemo_N9AL13N_lizzy, 2.5cm is more than enough13:40
AL13N_lizzyggabriel: no idea, but i got the impression from devel ML, that it might come for apps13:40
AL13N_lizzycan't guarantee though13:40
AL13N_lizzyVenemo_N9: imho, yes13:40
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ggabrielgood, i have something else to play with13:41
ggabrieli need to remember what tools i used13:41
AL13N_lizzything is, i donno if the NFC reader on jolla can actually be used to track other NFC readers13:41
Venemo_N9AL13N_lizzy, for N9, I literally had to touch the two devices13:41
ggabrielnfc is almost useless anyway :)13:41
AL13N_lizzywhich is what you're gonna need for payment or pairing13:41
AL13N_lizzythis is the part that may need firmware update13:41
ggabrielother nfc readers? well, hopefully not13:41
AL13N_lizzyggabriel: if you don't, you can't pair 2 phones with NFC for bluetooth13:42
AL13N_lizzyor pay with NFC13:42
AL13N_lizzyunless you use TOH for paying and remove the phone13:42
ggabrielnot sure it works that way tbh13:42
ggabrielbut i may be wrong13:42
ggabrielmy nokia speakers should have just a tag13:43
AL13N_lizzythe NFC reader couldn't pick up the tag from TOH if the phone was near13:43
tbrNFC supports multiple tags...13:43
ggabrieltbr: thanks13:43
tbrbut yeah, everybody in here is clearly an superior expert on NFC, so I'm going to shut up and do something else13:43
ggabrieli assume depending on antenna, type of tag, etc?13:43
AL13N_lizzytbr: plz don't13:43
ggabrielwe're just talking :)13:43
AL13N_lizzytbr: you're the expert here13:43
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tbrI'm neither13:44
tbrbut I know a thing or two13:44
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AL13N_lizzythe only thing i know from NFC is what that person wrote on the link and from when i talked to him13:45
AL13N_lizzyi just forgot the name of the person13:45
AL13N_lizzyi should check logs13:45
Venemo_N9anyway, gotta leave now13:45
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Venemo_N9ttyl guys! :)13:45
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jubo2High-speed irc!!13:46
Waitee:D13:46
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smokexthe reason we're spouting incorrect guessed info about things is so the experts in here can correct us and tell us whats really up13:47
ggabrielsmokex: personally, at this point is just food for play :)13:47
smokex:)13:48
ggabrieli'll bring me rfid reader with me13:48
ggabrieli haven't used it in a while13:48
AL13N_lizzysmokex: anyway, point is... there's still potential there, and we'll just have to wait13:49
ggabrieljust bear in mind that somebody said that "the antenna wasn't enough"13:49
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ggabrielnot sure what that meant exactly13:49
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tbrthe antenna is small. which means the range is very limited13:49
AL13N_lizzyggabriel: probably for range/strength to go past the TOH tag?13:49
tbras it was designed to reach the ToH tag and nothing more13:50
ggabrielfair enough13:50
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SpeedEvilAs a first estimate - RFID antennas have a range about equivalent to their diameter.13:51
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SpeedEvilSo, a centimeter is probably pushing it.13:51
smokexso it could have problems reaching an improperly placed oh sticker13:52
Accehey, what was the name of the tutorial package?13:54
AL13N_lizzythe hello world app?13:54
Accenope, the one which teaches how to use the phone13:56
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AL13N_lizzythere's youtube tutorials?14:00
AL13N_lizzyor do you mean that wizard that came on during first bootup?14:00
smokexdemo14:00
smokexsomething14:00
* smokex restarts his N95014:01
Acceyeah, that exactly, my dad wants to try the phone and i thought it would be best to make him go through that first14:01
smokexthere are 2 hidden files in your home dir and if they aren't present the wizards run and then create those files14:02
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smokex/home/nemo/.jolla-startupwizard-done and /home/nemo/.jolla-startupwizard-usersession-done14:06
Accesmokex, what do you mean? i removed that so i need to install it again with pkcon, right?14:06
smokexyou removed the startup wizard apps?14:07
Accei mean i removed the demo/tutorial app14:07
Acceyep14:07
smokexoh yeah you need to add them back14:07
smokexif you want your dad to see the demos14:08
Accewell it's an easy way for him to learn the swipe ui, i guess14:09
smokexeasy to re-add them too14:13
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* artemma got so used to automatic GMail filtering to inbox subfolders (Forums, Updates, etc), that it feels weird to establish rules for putting sailfish mailing list to the real mail folder. That is not to get too many notifications on a Jolla phone (official GMail client alerts you on Primary mails only)14:24
spider-mariohm, maybe the text rendering of the application grid could use some hinting14:25
spider-mariowhat do you think?14:25
Skorpymy google account keeps getting logged out or something. anyone else have this problem?14:28
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Pnuuspider-mario: what kind of hinting?14:30
Pnuu"ooh, suits you sir!"14:30
spider-mariohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_hinting14:30
spider-mario:D14:30
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TurskiSkorpy: i have same problem14:37
Stskeepsanother question i've wondered about14:37
Stskeepswhen you guys hit memory pressure, do you see lockups of the entire UI, and how long?14:37
Stskeepsi worked on this particular issue so wondering how it works in field14:38
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rantomIs there a simple way to restart the Twitter-feed in Events? My icons stopped loading, again14:44
rantomNot really in the mood to restart the device since I'd have to re-insert the SD-card too..14:44
rantoms/icons/avatars/14:45
FireFlyspider-mario: I think it looks pretty good as is14:45
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FireFlyOverall, I like the font & font rendering I've seen so far14:46
FireFlyHm, I guess maybe some hinting in the application grid would be nice, but I'm worrying that it'll lead to unevenness between characters..14:46
StskeepsFireFly: there's some font improvements coming, we tuned it a bit14:48
Stskeepsbut until it's in an delivered update it can always be pulled, so can't say which14:49
WntAny news about the together.jolla.com community portal? The press release said that it should have been opened last week.14:52
StskeepsWnt: things can always slip, but rest assured, people are working hard on it14:52
WntStskeeps: good to know14:53
WntStskeeps: only memory related problems I have experienced is that when I have lot's of applications open, especially Android apps fail to start14:54
Wntor I assume it's a memory related problem14:54
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Wntas closing gallery etc apps helps to that14:55
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rantomThe together-subdomain is going to be like a bugzilla?14:57
rantomIn this case "like" meaning similar in function14:57
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nanderThe ACL lags when a wireless status change pops up15:00
nanderWhen that happens you pretty much lose a game like bit trip beat15:00
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FireFlyACL?15:06
* FireFly associates that abbreviation with "access control list", but that's probably wrong in this context15:07
FireFlyStskeeps: interesting, thanks for the info15:07
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frieseACL -> Android Compatibility Layer i guess...15:10
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DeeGee_Isn't there a separate project called ACL, that hasn't anything to do with Jollas Myriad Group Alien Dalvik?15:11
friesethough i thought, jolla is not using that...15:11
frieseit's the thing webos uses for example, i guess blackberry10 too...15:12
ShadowJKaha, jolla has arrived at my grovery store15:17
ShadowJKtime to charge my N900 so I'll have usable ssh terminal? :D15:17
ggabrielShadowJK: go pick it up?15:17
spider-mariohm, the French translation of the Yandex Store is a little bit confusing15:18
spider-mariothere’s a field labeled “Your name” and one labeled “Name”15:18
spider-mariowhich one is the first name?15:18
ShadowJKggabriel; car is plugged in, waiting for the glacier on it to recede a bit. :)15:18
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ggabrielShadowJK: woohoo15:19
ggabrielspider-mario: that is one of the reasons why i always used techonlogy in english15:19
macmaNdisabling tohd is absolute battery life magic15:20
macmaNbattery is sitting on 96% for 3 hours now15:20
* SpeedEvil ponders ordering a SIM card.15:21
SpeedEvilI suppose I should get squaretrade first.15:21
SpeedEvil(accidental damage cover)15:21
micko_I haven't tested idle usage, but 10 hours of my normal use and 100% -> 88%15:21
micko_that's quite good15:21
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ggabrielSpeedEvil: you'll never damage it if you get accidental damage cover ;-)15:22
ShadowJKI wonder whether the switch is functional on every device15:23
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macmaNmicko_: with or without tohd15:25
micko_without. when tohd is activated my battery goes down to 50% on my average usage during 14h15:28
macmaNyep. tohd sucking is pretty much confirmed then all around.15:31
smokexwonder what its doing that uses so much power15:31
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smokexis the battery in the front or back half15:32
spider-marioconstant NFC polling, if I understand correctly15:32
Pnuusmokex: front15:32
spider-marioor something like that15:32
smokexdoes the hardware send a signal when a back half is plugged in15:32
smokexor does it seriously do a continuous nfc poll15:33
artemmaokay Flashlight app review probably wont happen before Christmas anymore. Oh well, will be after-Christmas present then15:33
smokexI wonder what time is on the QTimer15:33
ggabrielsmokex: just guessing here: the device has a sensor for the cover15:33
ggabrielso it'd be trivial to activate the nfc polling only when that state changes to "cover on"15:34
smokexand only on the change15:34
ggabrieli do wonder how this works on the n9 for example15:34
Pnuumy guess is that the NFC sensor polls every x seconds, and when it detects a TOH it keeps on "communicating" all the time15:34
ggabrielhow does it know that it has to work15:34
ggabrielmaybe accelerometer15:34
smokexif state was cover off and state is now cover on -> ambience apply15:34
smokexand nfc poll15:35
ggabrielPnuu: no point doing that since the tag has very limited data...15:35
Pnuuggabriel: yeah, I know15:35
ggabrieland i'd guess that the action consumes a lot of power15:35
Pnuubut it has to detect TOH somehow, and polling is the firts that comes to mind15:35
ggabrielPnuu: there's a sensor :D15:35
Pnuuand after detection the chip starts to do "something" really power hungry15:36
smokexonly poll when the state was no cover and changed to has cover15:36
smokexwhats the point of this continuous polling.. that can easily be avoided15:36
ggabrielthat's probably going to be the fix ;-)15:36
ggabrielalthough i wouldn't mind having a switch in settings to turn that off completely15:37
smokexyeah15:37
smokexthe ambience gimmic means nothing to me15:37
Pnuuggabriel: what is the sensor then that detects the nfc tag on TOH if not the NFC chip?15:37
smokexI prefer to manually make my own ambiences15:37
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smokexits just a text file with the path to a picture and 4 color settings15:38
smokexand an optional but haven't seen it used yet sound file path15:39
ggabrielPnuu: there's another sensor15:39
ggabriellike a proximity sensor15:39
Azogis there a fix yet for "press on the sim card an get connection loss"? does everyone have this problem?15:39
ggabrielbut now that you mention it, i'm not sure where i read that15:39
ggabrielso it may be BS15:39
ggabriel(hopefully not)15:39
Pnuuggabriel: why there would be?15:39
Pnuuthat sensor would also need to detect that there's a nfc tag in proximyt15:39
ggabrielto detect that you physically have an other half, i don't know15:39
Pnuuproximity15:40
ggabrielwell, no15:40
ggabrielonce you sense the other half, you poll once15:40
niceduckquestion about battery level : 11AM I had power level 48% ... now, after 6 and half hours, it is 78% !?15:40
ggabrielif you get data, good; if not, also good15:40
Pnuu'cause that tag is the only way to know there's a TOH present15:40
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ggabrielPnuu: not really, you could have other halves without a tag15:40
smokexthe physical connector between bh and fh has a bus to allow device communication beyond nfc iiuc15:40
ggabrielunless jolla states that they need a tag15:40
smokexfor keyboard for example15:40
ggabrielsmokex: correct15:40
TurskiPnuu: there's a micro switch next to the battery15:40
Pnuuggabriel: yeah, and then there's no problem with power consumption :-P15:40
ggabrielPnuu: dunno... we are treading unkown oceans though15:41
PnuuTurski: still, the foil -trick or removing the tag wouldn't work15:41
ggabrieljolla hasn't said what the specs for communicating with toh yet15:41
smokexwe are treading unknown oceans in a life boat15:41
ggabriel^^15:41
TurskiPnuu: but cutting the pin that pushes the micro switch would15:42
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PnuuTurski: but both of those work without breaking the micro switch15:42
TurskiPnuu: cutting the pin doesn to break the micro swith...15:43
TurskiPnuu: the pin is on TOH...15:43
ggabrielTurski: so that's the sensor then? :)15:43
ShadowJKWell it's i2c. You hook up some known i2c trinket to it, and then try communicate with it on the available i2c busses to find which bus TOH pins are on.15:43
Turskiggabriel: i believe so15:43
ggabrielthat's exactly what i remember seeing in pictures somewhere15:43
Pnuuhmm15:43
Turskiyes, i can confirm that is the sensor15:44
ggabrielso then the fix for the nfc issue should be trivial15:44
Turskii placed TOH upside down with the tag on the reader, and when i pressed that micro swith with a pen, it did read the tag15:44
smokexyep15:44
ggabrielwhich is great news15:44
Pnuubut why would the tinfoil -trick work without touching the micro switch?15:44
ggabrielPnuu: you need to know the rf in rfid15:45
Turskiggabriel: but also you can disable tohd.service15:45
ShadowJKblocks the signal15:45
smokexthe micro switch starts the nfc polling15:45
ggabrielsmokex: uh?15:45
Turskitinfoil will not block the signal unless it's proberly grounded15:45
smokexyou should still have high battery consumption even with the tin foil15:45
ggabrielTurski: yeah, tohd.service is the best workaround yet15:45
Pnuuok, so if the switch starts the polling, why does the tinfoil lower the power consumption?15:45
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TurskiPnuu: well, tag will consume i little abount of power that it gets from electric field15:46
smokexmaybe the daemon gives up if it doesn't find anything at all15:46
ggabrielPnuu: good question, somebody who knows rfid should know15:46
smokexafter a period of time15:46
Pnuusmokex: could be, yeah15:47
smokexif I stick black tape over my remote control, pushing a button repeatedly will still run the battery out in the same amount of time.. same principle15:48
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ggabrieli don't think it works like that15:49
smokexnfc technology is just a weak transciever15:50
Pnuusmokex: that would be comparable, if the television would answer to the remote15:50
ggabrieluhm... i wouldn't say that15:50
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ggabrielcoz the "reader" has to power up the tag :D15:50
ggabrielotherwise both components would be active15:51
smokexhttp://www.st.com/web/catalog/mmc/FM76/CL1766/SC154015:51
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ggabrielit's a pain to generalise15:52
ggabrielas there are plenty of tags15:52
ggabrielthe one that jolla uses is def passive15:52
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ggabrieland it's a good question as to why the tinfoil wouldn't avoid battery drainage15:52
ggabrielmaybe somebody (not me) wants to test it :)15:52
Pnuuthe explanation that smokex gave (daemon gives up) sounds plausible15:53
ggabrieldef one possibility15:53
vegaijust removing the sticker helps already, so why wouldn't a tinfoil :P15:54
ggabrieltoo true vegai15:54
smokexI'm betting cpu use for the nfc daemon will drop to near nothing about 1-5 minutes after the micro switch is triggered15:54
smokexsomeone could run top and check15:54
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smokexthat is if the nfc is removed or tin foil15:55
smokexor no back half actually present and switch triggered by hand15:55
smokexmyself I don't have a jolla phone so..15:58
Milo-the ambience system is really great. I really like how it can turn crappy quality images into awesomeness15:58
Milo-http://u.meelo.org/jolla/monopoli.png http://u.meelo.org/jolla/page1.png http://u.meelo.org/jolla/page2.png15:58
smokexI do have a phone running sailfish but it doesn't have an nfc chip15:59
ggabrielMilo-: pretty cool :)16:00
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Milo-I'd like to know what causes fingerterm+ssh to freeze while task switching.16:02
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Turskimaybe the same thing that freezes when launching brower from url grabber... which is mystery for me16:05
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I look at the moment at a nexus 7 that I'm about to send off to them.16:09
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ShadowJKto foursquare?16:10
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hR13Hi all, Just got my jolla today :-) but im having problems configuring the 3G connection since i can not change "choose network automatic" any one with any ideas on how to change that?16:13
StskeepshR13: 3g data or it simply doesn't pop on 3g?16:14
hR13Stskeeps, I know I need to set the internet.myprovider.se manually I have had to do that on all my previos phones inorder to get the 3G to work16:16
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StskeepshR13: press and hold on the 'internet' or 'mobile broadband provider' or whichever entry there is for data16:17
Stskeepsand then edit16:17
hR13I just realized that there is an update i will install that first.16:18
artemmathere is no quick search for app by typing app name in sailfish, is there?16:18
* artemma started getting lost with over one screen of app icons already16:18
artemmaactually over two screen. A little over one was still rememberable16:19
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ottuloartemma: did you try to group them somehow?16:28
SpeedEvilShadowJK: To squaretrade16:28
artemmaottulo: yes, by alphabet. But never had enough patience :D16:28
ottuloartemma: I grouped them according to what they're for - games in a group, media apps in another, browsers, games etc16:28
artemmagtoup?16:29
artemmaare groups possible?16:29
ottulowell, not really16:29
artemmaor you just put them one next to another one?16:29
smokexslide from left to right in store16:29
ottulobut I dragged them next to each other16:29
artemmaah16:29
ottulosmokex: in the app launcher grid16:29
ottulonot store16:29
artemmahmm, automatic alphabetical sorting could be a nice app idea.16:29
artemmathough not sure what defines the order of icons in the grid. Might be some internal settings file16:30
smokexa complete rewrite of the store would be better16:30
ottuloartemma: not sure, all I know is they reset once when I had to reboot...16:30
* artemma is talking more about a launcher grid. Store will definitely be improved anyway - looks way too bad right now16:30
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artemmaottulo: reset?16:31
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ottuloartemma: I had moved them around to groups like I explained above16:31
artemmaottulo: you mean your icon dragging/rearrangement efforts are lost on reboot? auch16:31
hR13Thanks Stskeeps now I got it working16:31
StskeepshR13: good16:31
ottuloafter reboot they were in a different order16:31
artemmanot good16:31
ottuloartemma: only happened once, so it might've been a glitch16:32
ottuloah, now I remember16:32
artemmasounds like a bug to me. If rearranging exists, they must have thought about actually saving the order16:32
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ottuloI switched the device language to see if it affects the map app (using km/mi)16:32
ottuloafter that reboot the apps were in a different order16:33
ottulobut I didn't notice that when switching back to english16:33
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hR13Any one got a good tip on a CalDav app for jolla?16:34
* artemma downloaded cool jolla images from dropbox (using sailbox) to.. where? Can't find the folder with them and they are not shown in Pictures16:34
* artemma always mumbled that loosing track photos is what's gonna happen if you let developers like him mess with file system freely, out of ios-like walled gardens16:35
SpeedEvilfind / -name "*.jpeg"16:35
ottulo~/dropbox iirc16:36
artemmaah, console to rescue, of course16:36
ottuloyep, that's it16:36
ottuloartemma: ~/dropbox16:36
ottulono subfolders either...16:37
artemmathanks, found16:37
artemmanow why are these not visible in Pictures?16:37
artemmado I need to kick indexer somehow?16:37
ottuloI guess they only refresh the premade folders16:37
artemmaSo solution would be to copy to pictures?..16:38
niceduckHalf time info : MfE with office365 goes thru activation wizard, but cannot actually connect to account on email application16:38
ottuloartemma: yes16:38
artemmamaybe sdcard supported too16:38
artemmaexcept that file browser can only view for now..16:38
artemmaoh well, back to console then16:38
Pnuuhow to send a file over bluetooth from jolla?16:40
Pnuureceiving works fine16:41
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Stskeepsshare?16:41
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Pnuucan't find a way share a mp316:43
Pnuuimages and videos, yes16:43
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nibbleris there no integration for XMPP into contacts and presence yet with 1.0.1.12?16:51
nibblerfound it. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9205316:56
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spider-marioI can’t seem to use the phone as a usb storage medium17:09
mordis there a way to power down the pn544 via sysfs?17:09
ggabrielspider-mario: nope, just mtp17:10
spider-mariooh, ok.17:10
spider-mariothanks17:10
ggabrielnw17:10
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Yanielduuude that capital M lools awful in fingerterm17:16
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ggabrielYaniel: pic or it never happened17:17
ggabrielMMMMMMMM17:17
ggabriel:)17:17
* ShadowJK has jolla now17:17
ggabrielShadowJK: \o/17:18
AJAX555welcome to the jolla owners club!17:18
ShadowJKDHL->Itella, curiously17:18
ggabrielah, you in .fi17:18
ggabrieldhl supply chain*17:18
Yanielscreenshotted, gonna take a while until I can upload it17:18
ggabrielthis is what i suspect dhl is doing for jolla: http://www.dhl.com/en/logistics/supply_chain_solutions/what_we_do/assembly_and_packaging_services.html17:19
Yanielbut seriously it "makes my eyes bleed"17:19
ggabrielYaniel: i'm only joking, i'll check soon enough17:19
Yanielit looks like a W with terrible resolution17:21
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ShadowJKwhat does spreadsheet look like now?17:23
ggabrielShadowJK: i was in the last 500 orders17:24
ggabrieland i've got the device17:24
ggabrielso.... :)17:24
ggabrieli bet they're already done17:24
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ggabrielexcept for pepole with import issues or other exceptions17:24
Yaniellast 500? how do you know?17:24
ggabrielalso, i didn't update my line17:24
ggabrielYaniel: order number17:25
AJAX555ggabriel: I didn't either D;17:25
ggabrielAJAX555: which one are you?17:25
AJAX555ggabriel: AJAX55517:25
ggabrielorder number i mean17:25
AJAX555should be received17:25
AJAX555ah, 3655 iirc17:25
ggabrieli don't have the spreadsheet url...17:25
ggabrielyou're vrey close to me17:25
ggabrieland you are in picking?17:25
AJAX555I dont have it on laptop either17:25
AJAX555ggabriel: I received mine last friday17:26
ggabrielmy order was 0 euros as well, so super low priority17:26
ggabrielAJAX555: ok, i misunderstood then17:26
ggabrieli thought you said you didn't receive it :)17:26
AJAX555ah ;D17:26
ggabrielso, at least 2 lines will be incomplete17:26
AJAX555no, I got my sweet sweet jolla ;)17:26
nibblerhmm. i just found out how to set the mail-addr. that's straight forward... sqlite3 .config/libaccounts-glib/accounts.db ; sqlite> update Settings SET value='Your Name' where key='fullName'; sqlite> update Settings SET value='my@dress' where key='emailaddress';17:26
AJAX555unless some kind person is willing to change those for us17:27
ggabrielnibbler: there's a tool17:27
ggabrielhang on17:27
Yanielag-tool?17:27
ggabrielnibbler: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1399951#post139995117:27
ggabrielYaniel: aye17:27
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ggabriela bit safer than sqlite17:27
Pnuuhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqcXroZyLBjPdGJ4WmhOMlZBaVdEc2g1TmY3cXNLeWc&usp=drive_web#gid=117:27
Pnuugrep <317:28
nibblerggabriel: ah! good to know :-)17:28
ggabrielnibbler: i learned it minutes ago, but didn't try it :)17:29
nibblerggabriel: was just doing an egrep -r for my username and found the config db :>17:29
ggabrielmy jolla is under the tree... i must be the only one waiting17:29
spider-mariohm, for some reason, it won’t let me access the Music directory via MTP17:30
spider-mario:/17:30
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nibblerggabriel: hmm, no ag-tool on my jolla. also, no package17:31
ggabrielnibbler: you need to install17:31
nibblerwhich package?17:31
ggabrieldid you run pkcon install libaccounts-glib-tools?17:31
nibbleraah, libaccounts-glib-tools! alright.17:32
nibblerthanks17:32
ggabrielnp17:32
* ggabriel wonders if ag-tool is anti gravity tool17:34
nibblermeh.17:35
nibblerFatal error: Download (curl) error for 'https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.1.12/jolla/armv7hl/core/armv7hl/check-0.9.8-1.1.1.armv7hl.rpm':17:35
ShadowJKwow, proxyserver support. Impressive. Even more so if it works :-)17:35
nibbleranyway. using the sqlite3 shell is good enough.17:35
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parasemicwhat was the command to disable TOH in terminal?17:40
Pnuuparasemic: http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2013/12/jolla-battery-life-power-consumption.html17:40
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micko_I have three lines with key='emailaddress'. my gmail (which works), my other mail (which doesn't) and third one with just my username for the non-working mail17:41
micko_on sqlite17:41
parasemicthx17:41
micko_is the first field (int) an id for account?17:41
micko_I don't remember how to get field names in sqlite...17:42
nibbleryes17:42
nibblerPRAGMA table_info(table_name); gives you a list of the column descriptors.17:42
ShadowJKuh, that thing at the start where you enter your name and stuff.. where do you edit that afterwards?17:43
micko_nibbler: thanks17:43
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PeperJohnnyHey Guys, did anyone else have the problem, that whenever you put on the other half white they get "other half not working"?17:47
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micko_now this is weird... I removed the non-working account (to see why I had two of them). other did remain and I checked what more info I can find there... sqlite says that 2|0|auth/oauth2/user_agent/Host|s|'www.facebook.com'17:53
micko_this is really weird because that mailaddress has nothing to do with facebook17:54
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micko_I removed fb-account from jolla and that account dissappeared on sqlite. looks like jolla for some reason attached the wrong mail to my fb-info17:55
spider-marioI think I’ve found a procedure that reliably crashes the calculator app17:55
spider-mario1. Enter “2×3=”17:56
spider-mario2. Touch the 217:56
spider-mario3. Press the correct key three times17:56
spider-mario→ *crash*17:56
PeperJohnnyWorking here spider-mario17:57
spider-mariooh, is it?17:57
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spider-mariowhen I do it, the first press on the correct key changes the 2 to 017:57
spider-mariothe second press removes the 0 but leaves the ×17:57
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spider-mariothe third press triggers the crash, probably because the focus is lost17:58
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PeperJohnnythats odd, here its working fine17:58
Venemohey!17:58
Venemofedex screwed me up at the end, but I went in there personally and secured my jolla :)17:59
ggabrielVenemo: woohoo, good effort17:59
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spider-mariowhat the18:00
spider-marionow that I try to film it, it doesn’t crash anymore18:00
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Venemoit is AAAWWWEEESSSOOOMMMEEE!!!18:00
spider-marioah, got it18:00
ggabrielVenemo: http://xkcd.com/921/18:00
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ShadowJKthis is silly, the stupid onscreen keyboard typoed my name and now I can't find where to fix it :D18:01
QuuShadowJK: rofl18:01
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Morpog_Mobile Hehe Venemo congrats :)18:03
* ShadowJK wonders if device reset let him start over D:18:03
Morpog_MobileNow get me irc-chatter ;)18:03
ShadowJKYeah I need an irc client too18:03
ShadowJKtyping this on n90018:03
Venemodoing it :)18:04
Venemothere are a few issues though18:04
Venemojolla can't connect to my wifi18:04
faenilVenemo, so it was in Budapest today? :D18:04
Venemofaenil: yes, and after talking to them on the phone they said they could deliver it to me here, even. however in the afternoon they called me back and said that the guy responsible didn't read the email about it, so I either go there in person or it'll be delivered until 2nd january18:05
petantiknative irc is useful, although i prefer it on my vps so you can ssh from anywhere18:05
faenillol18:05
faenilVenemo, well done, and you were lucky as well :)18:05
ggabrielVenemo: pfff, sucks when they do that18:05
Venemoso, when I select my local wifi it says, "Sorry. Could not connect to selected network." - but it doesn't say WHY!!!18:05
FireFlyHm18:06
ShadowJKI hate software that doesn't say why18:06
Venemoggabriel: yes, this is actually the second time something like this happens to me18:06
Venemohm!18:06
Venemomaybe it doesn't support N wifi?18:06
ggabrielnah, it should have n18:06
ShadowJKhm. Updated OS, now it says TOH not working :)18:06
FireFlyVenemo: yeah, that is super annoying18:06
ggabrieldo you have logs of your AP? :)18:06
StskeepsVenemo: finally got it?18:07
PeperJohnnyShadowJK: having the same issue :<18:07
VenemoStskeeps: yes! I had to go to the fedex warehouse personally though :)18:07
FireFlyVenemo: (the lack of descriptive message, I meant)18:07
VenemoFireFly +118:07
FireFlyI wonder if the calendar will get iCal/vCal support.. that'd be useful18:07
Venemoalso, tbr: why did you frighten me about contacts sync? after adding my google account, all my contacts magically appeared18:07
ortylpA short question off topic: does anyone know what happened to "thanks" button on talk.maemo.org? (and yes, I am logged in, relogged and, checked that twice)18:08
Venemoother stupid question: where is the ambience setting? can't find it anywhere18:08
ggabrielortylp: you may be in an off topic thread18:08
QuuVenemo: these are not the ambiences you are looking for18:08
ggabrielVenemo: pulley from lock screen?18:08
ortylpggabriel: nope18:09
Venemoggabriel: there is no such button on the lock screen18:09
VenemoI remember seeing something about push on the home screen but that doesn't do anything either18:09
ortylpVenemo: these are the "favourites"18:09
PnuuVenemo: gallery has all the ambiences18:09
PeperJohnnyVenemo: got to galaries select a favourite and then on homescreen swipe right or left18:10
ortylpVenemo: you can create them from the gallery18:10
tehdelymy jolla has arrived :)18:10
tehdelywell, it's arrived in finland...18:10
tehdelynow to wait till it gets to the US ;)18:10
ggabrielyeah, sorry Venemo. Pnuu is right18:10
VenemoI have one favourite only and swipe right/left on homescreen doesn't do anything18:10
ggabrieli got confused with a "nice to have"18:10
Pnuuand the favourites can be accessed by side swiping from home screen18:10
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spider-mariohere’s the crash (sorry for the orientation of the video)18:10
spider-mariohttp://ge.tt/api/1/files/4i2zhuA1/0/blob?download18:10
PeperJohnnyYou have to swipe from the border18:10
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PnuuI guess N(favorites) > 1 for that, though18:11
faenilVenemo, >= 2 favourited ambiances needed18:11
Venemook, I have 2 now18:11
Venemostill no effect18:11
spider-mariohttp://ge.tt/4i2zhuA1/v/018:11
FireFlyVenemo: push from side18:11
Venemosorry18:11
FireFlywith ≥2 favourited ambiences18:11
VenemoI didn't notice I had to "Save" after pressing the star18:11
Turski-_-18:11
* FireFly has also missed that18:11
FireFlymaking a change, then going back...18:12
Venemook, now about wifi18:12
PeperJohnnyspider-mario: ah , now it crashes^^18:12
Venemodoes Jolla supposed to support N wifis?18:12
ortylpFireFly: me too18:12
ShadowJKUh. When I try enter proxy server, it resets the input field when I type a dot18:12
ggabrielVenemo: WLAN802.11 b/g/n 2.4GHz18:12
ggabriel(according to jolla.com)18:12
PeperJohnnyVenemo: it works here with n18:12
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FireFlyggabriel: according to jolla.com it also supports LTE :p18:13
spider-mariothe procedure is not as reliable as I thought, then. :p18:13
Venemook, so how can I figure out why it can't connect to this wifi here?18:13
FireFly(even though the software isn't in place yet)18:13
spider-mariobut it does crash sometimes18:13
ggabrielFireFly: but it does, it's just the software that isn't there18:13
rcgVenemo, do you use PEAP or something?18:13
ggabrielFireFly: we do agree that there are rather different implementations, right? :)18:13
Venemorcg: no18:13
ShadowJK.. Oh, it works when I type the end first and then type the start... wtf18:13
FireFlyggabriel: and likewise, maybe not all wifi variants are supported by drivers.. wouldn't surprise me, anyway :p18:13
rcgVenemo, hmm, i see.. just to check, i am using WPA2 with PSK here18:14
Venemoit's WPA2 personal with AES18:14
TurskiFireFly: that's quite a different thing18:14
ggabrielVenemo: how long is your password? fewer than 7 characters?18:14
FireFlythough then again, I guess wifi is more "typical" linux software compared to LTE18:14
rcgVenemo, same for me18:14
PeperJohnnyspider-mario: nah i did it the wrong way. it crashes everytime now18:14
FireFlyfor there to be existing drivers for18:14
Venemoggabriel: no, it's more than 718:14
TurskiFireFly: i thnk Jolla was waiting to get some certifications before they can enable LTE18:14
ggabrielVenemo: i'm out of ideas, i'd go for the AP log :) (best way i fixed several wifi issues btw)18:14
Venemoggabriel: how do I go to the A18:14
Venemoggabriel: how do I go to the AP log?18:14
ggabrielVenemo: depends on your router model etc etc18:15
Venemook, got it18:15
ShadowJKMy AP is in abgn mode and works with jolla18:15
Venemothere's a system log option in the AP UI18:15
Venemomy AP is in N-only mode18:15
ggabrielTurski: i think w00t explained that they needed to work with things like switching to/from lte from 3g/gsm while on a call etc18:15
FireFlyTurski: oh, didn't know that18:15
Turskiggabriel: i just think i heard something about certs18:15
ggabrielmaybe both :)18:16
Turskiyeah18:16
Turskimaybe18:16
ggabrieli wonder if they can get in trouble by announcing it18:16
Venemook, the error doesn't generate any entries in the AP's log18:16
VenemoShadowJK: can you please try setting it to N-only?18:16
ggabrielVenemo: you'll hate me, but how about enabling other modes?18:16
spider-mariooh, I didn’t realize that each ambiance could be assigned its own ringtone / etc.18:16
spider-marionice. :D18:16
Venemoggabriel: it'd disconnect my IRC connection if I did that18:16
Venemothe LED on the bottom is kind of cool18:17
ShadowJKVenemo; i'd rather not, it'd kick off my family and more importantly, kick myself off IRC and if jolla indeed doesn't work on n I dunno what I'd set it back with :)18:17
Venemooh, sorry ShadowJK18:18
VenemoStskeeps: should it work with N?18:18
Stskeepserr. i don't know18:18
TurskiShadowJK: check iwconfig which mode your wifi hw is in18:18
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Turskihmm... not sure does it actually even tell the mode18:19
Turskiactully, i can try that myself18:20
FireFlyspider-mario: 'ambience' is the new 'profile' :P18:20
spider-marioit appears so. :)18:20
celeron55iwconfig doesn't seem to tell anything useful for that18:21
Turskiceleron55: it does to me at least18:21
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Venemobtw, the box looks awesome18:21
celeron55it says "Qcom:802.11n" for me while my AP doesn't support other than b and g18:21
TurskiQcom:802.11n18:21
Turskioh...18:21
Venemowhoever designed it should be a genious18:21
Turskidoesn't then18:21
celeron55i would look at the kernel log18:22
celeron55i can18:22
TurskiBit Rate=58.5 Mb/s18:22
celeron55i can't find anything relevant there but if some error happens, there could be something18:22
Turskidoesn't sound like n18:22
celeron55Turski: sounds like n18:22
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celeron55g supports only up to 5418:22
Venemooh, and the other half is really hard to get off18:22
nanderThe speaker is quite decent :)18:23
StskeepsVenemo: it gets easier when you've done it according to instruction18:23
nanderBetter than I expected18:23
ShadowJKWow, holy shit. Syncing contacts between N900 and Jolla actually worked. Holy awesome synchronizing bluetooth beams batman!18:23
nanderNot a stereo speaker, not something you' d use for showing off music, but still ;)18:23
VenemoStskeeps: the instruction says something about the lower left corner but it's still hard if I start there18:24
ShadowJKMine came with sticker there,and it seemed frighteningly easy to remove toh :)18:25
Turskiceleron55: oh18:25
Turskinow it shows 64 Mb/s18:25
VenemoShadowJK: yes the instruction was on the sticker, and it's not easy18:25
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nanderI'm using a livevid of within temptation for checking18:25
nanderlive album18:25
nanderOn youtube ;)18:25
TurskiVenemo: i have no problems with that18:25
Venemothe sound it makes when I take it off also frighten me about breaking it18:25
nanderA pity the browser can' t do landscape yet18:25
TurskiVenemo: but better hard to get off than too easy to get off18:25
w00tVenemo: it's tough18:26
w00tI was worried initially too but it's ok18:26
nanderdamm, it does drain power..18:26
micko_the sqlite solution does not work for my email. I still get "Ongelma synkronoinnissa" (problem in syncronization in english?) when trying to send18:26
w00tjust grab it from the bottom corner and away you go18:26
Venemoyes, hard to get off is a good thing!18:26
Venemow00t: that's what I'm doing and the cracking sound it emits makes me want to scream18:27
w00t:)18:27
Venemook, next thing to try is music18:27
VenemoI'll put something on the SD card18:27
w00tI think I made Jope do mine the first time, I was too chicken18:27
Venemoit's formatted to ext4 as suggested18:27
FireFlyOh, right18:27
FireFlyUpdates to WLAN connectivity stability is planned IIRC?18:28
PnuuI haven't had any problems with wifi18:28
FireFlyBecause at least for me the jolla seems to disconnect randomly every now and then18:28
ortylpnander: yep... I use firefox instead, but I do not know how to set it as default18:28
FireFlys/disconnect/disconnect and reconnect/18:29
nanderit's fun to have however ;)18:30
nanderEveryone asks what it is :D18:30
nanderno more ' what lumia is that' ;)18:30
ggabrielnander: haha18:30
w00tFireFly: do you have strong wireless signal?18:31
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nanderif I got a cookie each time someone asked me that...18:31
FireFlyw00t: should have, I'm like 3m from the router18:31
nanderThen I'd have more cookies than I have on cookie clicker18:31
ShadowJKTOH seems like soft plastic you probablhy need to fold it in half to break18:31
w00tFireFly: single configured network in the area, or multiple?18:32
FireFlySingle18:32
FireFlyWPA2 encryption, if that matters18:32
FireFlyI don't think it should..?18:32
w00tcan't say i've heard of problems in your type of situation.. anything interesting showing up in logcat/journal?18:33
spider-mariohm, I have no idea why the OS thinks that the dominant color of http://i.imgur.com/IVXUad6.jpg is purple18:33
FireFlySometimes it reconnects sporadically, but especially it seems to happen if I scp stuff to nemo@ after enabling that in settings18:33
spider-mariodoes it mix the orange and the blue?18:33
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spider-marioor maybe it’s the noise in the middle18:34
spider-marioit should be darker (completely black, actually)18:34
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nanderI still use the blue/blackish ship ;)18:37
TurskiShadowJK: soft plastic? do you actually have the device?18:37
ShadowJKyes18:38
nanderIt's solid, but it's bendable18:38
nanderIt won't break18:38
ShadowJKflexible18:38
FireFlyw00t: what is 'alien_bridge_se'? Related to alien dalvik?18:38
Turskiit's so thin18:38
w00tFireFly: alien_bridge_server (i'd guess), yes18:38
* w00t => dinner18:38
FireFlyw00t: http://xen.firefly.nu/up/log ← seems to happen every now and then and match up with the reconnects18:38
ShadowJKOn the rigid+fragile to flexible scale it's more on the flexible end18:38
FireFlyanyway, /me → dinner too :p18:38
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TurskiFireFly: that probably happens after the reconnect, not before18:39
TurskiShadowJK: well, wouldn't still call it soft plastic :P18:40
Venemoso, any idea on the wifi?18:41
* ShadowJK screams in agony18:42
ShadowJKok, 7th attempt to register to yandex18:42
Turskiyandex is just horrible18:43
ShadowJKI hope it saves password, because if I have this much trouble typing any two lines of text that match, I'll never be able to get a third one to match18:43
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faenilShadowJK, you have english language?18:45
Venemoone more thing: I did NOT get my limited edition other half18:46
ShadowJKNo I started phone with swedish so I'd get metric maps (I had seen on IRC you had to do that)18:46
Venemothere was a message saying I will receive it "in the following weeks"18:46
faenilShadowJK, I think you need english in that version to register to Yandex (yandex issue)18:47
ShadowJKit says "Wrong country code value"18:47
ShadowJKI assumed that had to do with phone number..18:47
faenildon't know, could be a different issue, I just heard that people had issues registering to yandex with != english18:48
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ShadowJKnope, still "Wrong country code value" in english18:51
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ShadowJKhm, changed to secret question and that went away18:52
ShadowJKmaybe it wants phone number in different format18:52
faenildunno18:53
ShadowJKyep, that was it18:54
ShadowJK358 is Apparently not an acceptable country code :)18:54
faenil:)18:55
TurskiShadowJK: just create your account on pc18:55
spider-mario33 either18:55
spider-marioTurski : I tried that but I didn’t find the web page18:55
Turskithere is a page somewhere...18:56
Turskilet me google it for you...18:56
Venemommm, this is interesting18:56
Venemoafter enabling developer mode it can connect to the wifi18:57
Turskispider-mario, ShadowJK: there you are https://passport.yandex.com/passport?mode=passport18:57
spider-mariooh, thanks18:57
Venemoshould I check "Allow developer updates"?18:57
TurskiVenemo: no!18:58
TurskiVenemo: just do that only if you _really_ know what you do... and if you ask that, just don't enable it18:58
Venemono idea18:59
specialit's a very badly named switch for internal jolla credentials19:00
nanderYou probably can't19:00
nanderAnd if you could you shouldn't19:01
Venemoalso the terminal app is horrible19:01
TurskiVenemo: create a better one19:01
specialhttps://github.com/nemomobile/fingerterm patches welcome :p19:01
Turskithat's how it works19:01
nanderThe keyboard just shouldn't hide19:01
nanderThat's al I think is wrong with it19:01
Venemothe keyboard should be the system keyboard19:01
nanderIn portrait there is plenty of screen estate19:01
nanderVenemo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO19:01
nanderArrows ;)19:01
Venemoand I should be able to read scrollback while I'm typing commands19:01
nanderYou don't want system keyboard on a terminal19:02
VenemoI can hardly hit these extremely tiny buttons19:02
specialnander: in the menu you can choose "VKB behavior off/fade/move"19:02
Turskisystem keyboard isn't enough for terminal19:02
Turskiat least the default layouts19:02
nanderspecial - it lacks 'On'19:02
Turskithere of course could be terminal layout...19:02
specialnander: "fade" stays in place and only reduces opacity, is that not enough?19:02
Venemois 1.0.0.5 the latest?19:03
Pnuuthat's what I use19:03
PnuuVenemo: .1219:03
nanderIt's annoying19:03
Venemohow do I upgrade?19:03
nanderSince you can't really select the text behind it19:03
nanderThe screen size in portrait is ample19:03
VenemoI did a 'pkcon refresh' and 'pkcon update' and nothing seems to have happened19:03
nanderSo why bother fading19:03
specialVenemo: go to settings, about, pull down and check for updates there.19:04
TurskiVenemo: it isn't recommended to upgrade with pkcon.. go to system settings -> device information19:04
Pnuuin irssi I've noticed that when I change a window, eg. esc+14 and want to fade the keyboard quicker and touch the screen, it almost always sends alt+left19:04
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ShadowJKhm.. no "request desktop site" thing in browser19:04
Pnuuand the swipes work more or less randomly19:04
nanderalso, who put the Desktop folder in the filesystem? :D19:04
Pnuuotherwise fingerterm is a-ok19:04
Venemookay, it found the upgrady by itself now19:05
TurskiPnuu: swiped are a bit oversensitive19:05
Turskiswipes*19:05
VenemoI wonder why it didn't find it before; maybe it doesn't look for updates on cellular data?19:05
fluxfingerterm's haptics are laggy19:05
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fluxand perhaps there are other reasons why its vkb doesn't work as nicely as the system one19:06
spider-mariowow, my jolla is much faster than my old android phone at installing android apps19:06
PnuuTurski: but it _never_ send alt+right :-P19:06
spider-mariofunny19:06
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ottulohaha19:07
ottulotrying out Dune on DosBox for Android on Jolla19:07
nanderdoes it work well?19:07
nanderdoxbox for android on jolla?19:07
Venemooh, and the default VKB doesn't have some characters that are very important for me. is there a way to customize it?19:07
fluxhmm, does the android version use some native code?19:07
ottuloaudio is not working perfectly, but that might be the settings19:07
nanderAlso, middle names are not supported yet in 'people' ?19:08
ottulotbh I don't know a thing about DosBox etc19:08
fluxvenemo, I'm certain it is possible.. if only if I recalled the framework's name :)19:08
ottulonor have I ever played Dune before19:08
Venemomaliit19:08
Venemoafair19:08
PnuuVenemo: try selecting different layout?19:08
fluxright, maliit19:08
fluxwell should be customizable, right/19:09
spider-mariocool, ConnectBot in Android does appear to work as a terminal for Sailfish19:09
VenemoPnuu: there's no layout for my locale19:09
Pnuu:-/19:09
Venemoany idea which layout might have standard latin + öüóőúéáűí ?19:09
Venemothe default one doesn't have ő even if I long-press the o19:10
TurskiPnuu: it does19:10
fluxvenemo, rpm -ql jolla-keyboard-0.4.4-10.17.1.jolla.armv7hl gives some files that seem relevant19:10
fluxvenemo, good luck ;-)19:10
PnuuTurski: not for me in that particular use-case19:10
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Venemoflux: I'll check it out19:11
fluxit seems the layouts are completely defined there19:12
flux(oh how I wish I had 'less' on the device, I always keep writing it..)19:12
Venemothis is disturbing but I dunno why but after enabling developer mode it suddenly could connect to my wifi - before devmode it didn't even ask for password19:12
fluxa bug?19:12
QuuVenemo: it knows.19:13
VenemoQuu: what? :P19:13
Quui dont know, im drunk.19:14
Venemoomg19:14
Venemoit doesn't seem to recognize the SD card, let's see what I can do about it19:14
merlin1991flux: enable mer-tools and install less from there19:15
ShadowJKsd card support is allegedly halfdone I've heard19:15
Morpog_MobileVenemo, if you want to have good battery life: systemctl stop tohd.service19:15
fluxmerlin1991, will I accidentally upgrade things broken?19:15
merlin1991you can always disable the repo after installing less19:15
Morpog_MobileVenemo, ext4 doesn't get automounted19:16
VenemoMorpog_Mobile: where should I mount it?19:16
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Morpog_MobileDunno i difn't follow closely as i don't have a sdcard yet19:17
Morpog_MobileTMO knows19:17
Morpog_MobileAnd maybe that elinux site19:18
Venemothere is a /dev/sdcard when the SD card is entered19:18
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VenemoStskeeps: do you happen to know where I should mount the sd card?19:19
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Venemolet's see, I insert a different card and see where it mounts19:22
DeeGee_Venemo: default automounting location seems to be /run/user/100000/media/sdcard19:22
DeeGee_If you need your sd card media indexed, there is tracker-sd-indexing.sh (or something like that) that enables removable media indexing and restarts trackers19:23
DeeGee_-s19:24
Venemoit works!19:24
Venemonow19:24
Venemothe music app automatically found music on the other SD card19:24
Venemoseems it couldn't deal with this one19:25
VenemoDeeGee_: where's that .sh?19:25
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Venemoalso, how do I enable automounting ext4?19:26
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DeeGee_hm, it's in a folder that's in PATH variable, so it should be easy to find with tab19:27
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DeeGee_No idea, I've just done it manually for now.19:27
zuttoVenemo: with fstab?19:27
ggabrielyou need to play with the script that udev runs19:27
ggabrielthe script provided assumes it's fat, so anything else fails19:27
zuttojolla uses fstab, right?19:27
VenemoDeeGee_: not for me, maybe I should look for it as user and not root19:28
ggabrielwell, anything that doesn't support the uid opt19:28
ggabrielzutto: yeah, but that works for automount, as somebody else pointed out19:28
Venemoggabriel: where's that script?19:28
zuttodoesnt he want to automount some ext4 partition?19:28
ggabrielautomount runs at boot only, zutto19:28
ggabrielVenemo: in the irc logs somewhere19:28
Venemook19:28
zuttohmh, well thats true19:28
ggabrielotherwise look in /etc/udev/rules (or something)19:28
Venemonothing happens after running tracker-sd-indexing.sh19:29
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DeeGee_it should just index media on sd card. But it needs to be mounted first.19:29
Venemobtw, this is weird. 'devel-su' accepts the root password I set but 'su -' doesn't19:29
zuttoggabriel: actually, cant you just use mount -a and fstab?19:29
VenemoDeeGee_: it is mounted19:29
ggabrielVenemo: /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh19:30
Venemono, this is a shitty ext4 permission issue19:30
ggabrielzutto: you should, yeha19:30
ggabrielbut i'm saying: if you want it automagically19:30
zuttooh, gotta love jolla being so bareboned linux19:30
Venemouser nemo doesn't have permissions for anything on the SD card19:30
ggabrieli wouldn't modify that script tho ;-)19:30
ggabrielVenemo: well, that's another opt innit19:30
ggabrielor you just chmod 777 everything19:31
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Venemols: cannot access Music: Input/output error19:31
ggabrielthat's ugly19:31
Venemowhat the hell19:31
Quuyes. chmod 777 everything sounds like non-phone-breaking -stuff19:31
ggabrielQuu: i meant the sd card ofc19:31
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Venemookay, let me reboot19:32
Venemowill be back in a bit19:32
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Venemook, it seems that simply the filesystem on the sd card is borked19:34
VenemoI'm now reformatting it19:35
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ShadowJKoooofff.. how can terminal haptic be so slooow19:36
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ShadowJKthe N800 is better D:19:36
Venemocan we hack LTE to be enabled?19:36
Venemoin case we want some 4G goodness19:36
ggabrielnot sure19:37
ggabrielyou can do tethering if you want19:37
Stskeepsjust wait, you don't want our devices to be banned from LTE networks19:37
Stskeeps:P19:37
ggabrielbut haven't read anything re lte19:37
ggabrielStskeeps has a good point....19:37
Venemomeh, okay19:37
Venemowhy would it be banned though?19:37
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ShadowJKoh wow, took me ages to get to /sys/ even, how does one get anything done with this thing :D19:39
VenemoShadowJK: I don't like it either19:39
VenemoStskeeps: is there a clean way of automounting my ext4 sd card, without screwing up the aforementioned built-in script?19:40
Stskeepsnot sure, i'd ask jake9xx but i think he's being xmassy atm19:40
ShadowJKkeys near the screen edge seem kinda unresponsive :/19:41
VenemoStskeeps: okay. but generally, very nice work!19:41
Stskeepsi hope you guys upgraded already19:41
Frye_Venemo if you don't touch the mount script it will be automounted only as vfat19:41
Venemojust did19:41
ggabrielVenemo: you can create your own udev rule19:41
ggabrielcp the script, modify as you wish19:42
ggabrieland gg19:42
ggabriel:)19:42
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Venemoone issue though: there is one contact that I marked as favourite but an empty rectange is shown in its place among the other favourites19:42
ggabriel2013-12-18T15:48:07  <Turski> sure if you want to edit udev a udev rule that's provided by a package, you should copy it to /etc/udev/rules.d and edit there19:43
ggabriel2013-12-18T15:48:50  <Turski> rules in /etc/udev/rules.d override rules in /usr/lib/udev/rules.d19:43
ggabrielthat's the idea i liked the best...19:43
* ggabriel cd dinner19:43
Venemoaww man19:43
Venemoseems the avatar of the contact was improperly downloaded from google19:44
Venemoin the gallery app, is there a way to filter images by date?19:46
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Venemoaww, this is pretty annoying19:47
Venemoextracted album covers are listed in the gallery among photos19:47
ShadowJKhm19:48
ShadowJKMaybe I'm just used to N800 way, but that seemed better than fingerterm way of doing it :/19:49
fluxI suppose the capacitive touch screen on jolla doesn't give any near-field feedback?19:53
fluxif it did, fingerterm could use that to bring up the keyboard19:53
ShadowJKI wouldn't mind if it was fixed, always out, and terminal area was half screen19:56
ShadowJKMaybe without having to process gesture stuff, it'd be able to respond quicker too?19:57
FireFlyYou could set it to always out in the settings thing19:57
ShadowJKwill it cover actual stuff though?19:58
FireFlythere's a few choices, "overlay", "slide up", "off" or something19:58
FireFlynot unless you have it to overlay (the default)19:58
FireFly"Off", "Fade", "move" apparently19:58
FireFlyHm19:58
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ShadowJKin the config file?20:00
ShadowJKoh god this will be difficult :D20:01
FireFlyNo, the "menu" icon thing in the top-right corner20:01
FireFlythree horizontal lines20:01
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FireFlySeems the best you can do is to set the autohide delay to 10s and "vkb behavior" to "move"20:02
ShadowJKhm20:04
FireFlyHm, I kinda like 'move'20:04
ShadowJKportrait is small, landscape is huge..20:04
Turskiggabriel: i just think the default rules on sailfish are in /etc/udev/rules.d...20:06
Turskiwhich kinda ruins that idea20:07
Venemohm, the default choice of ringtones seem to be rather limited20:07
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Turskiggabriel: actually i think ti's best idea to just modify the mounting script20:10
Turskiggabriel: it will be then replaced on next update and maybe include a proper fix ;)20:11
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YanielI actually like the overlay keyboard20:26
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ShadowJKhm wait, fingerterm stops working if screen is off?20:27
Yanielhmm?20:30
ShadowJKI had while true; do echo $(date) ; sleep 60 ; done20:31
ShadowJKmore or less20:31
ShadowJKand it skipped couple minutes :)20:31
Venemoso. half an hour remaining from the copy and then we can see how well SailFish handles indexit several thousand songs20:31
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YanielVenemo: more like how tracker does20:32
ShadowJKVenemo; augh, now my jolla is like yours, refusing wifi :)20:32
VenemoShadowJK: what did you do?20:33
Venemohm, seems that something is wrong about the microsd socket20:33
ShadowJKmoved to other side of the house20:33
Venemothe cable only goes kind of halfway in20:34
ShadowJKThe first AP doesn't reach here, but there's another one20:34
Venemoah, only had to press harder20:34
ShadowJK... so now I'm actually *stuck* at a screen.. "Select Internet connection" .. "Sorry. Could not connect to selected network" "Search again"20:35
YanielShadowJK: reboot20:35
VenemoShadowJK: tapping outside of it gets you out of it20:35
ShadowJKand by stuck I mean none of the gestures work20:35
ShadowJKoh, powerbutton works20:35
ggabrielTurski: thanks, definitely something to tinker with20:36
ShadowJKgrrr. Fingerterm needs a 1 char wide border around the entire screen so copypaste select text isn't mistaken for a gesture20:37
Venemomeh, this seems to be impossible20:38
Venemoafter copying several gigabytes the filesystem on the SD card just gets broken20:38
VenemoI get input/output error on copying and after that it can't be mounted anymore20:39
ggabrielVenemo: what sd brand/model, out of curiosity?20:40
ShadowJKhm.. this is why fingerterm keyboard doesnt work too well near the edges, I guess.. gets mistaken for gesture20:40
ShadowJKhm.. the copy button seems like a no-op anyways20:41
* ShadowJK wonders how copypaste works20:41
Venemoggabriel: it's a samsung 64GB20:42
Venemoclass 1020:42
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Venemobut it was suspiciously cheap :(20:42
ggabrielthey are meant to be good20:42
ShadowJKmaybe it wraps around :D20:42
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VenemoShadowJK: what do you mean?20:43
TurskiVenemo: can't be mounted?20:44
VenemoTurski: by my laptop20:44
Turskierrors?20:44
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VenemoI ran a check on the partition with gparted and now it lost all the data20:44
Turskidid you umount it?20:45
Venemoit couldn't mount so I nmount20:45
Venemoit couldn't mount so I couldn't unmount20:45
Turskidid you umount it after copying the data?20:45
VenemoTurski: while copying the data it said "input/output error" at some point and became unmountable after that20:46
Turskianything in dmesg?20:47
Venemo[ 3887.815779] JBD2: no valid journal superblock found20:47
Turskithat was at the time of first input/output errors?20:47
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VenemoI guess that was when it tried to mount it20:48
ggabrieli'd run a check...20:48
Venemobefore that I have a bunch of entries like this:20:48
Venemo[ 2440.028019] EXT4-fs error (device sdb1): ext4_mb_generate_buddy:755: group 64, 32768 clusters in bitmap, 24544 in gd20:48
Venemoand20:48
Turskifsck the sdcard20:48
Venemo[ 3563.324559] EXT4-fs error (device sdb1): __ext4_new_inode:913: comm pool: failed to insert inode 2490376: doubly allocated?20:48
Turskihmm...20:48
ggabrielmkfs -c -c?20:48
VenemoTurski: I used check in gparted (which I guess runs fsck) and then all the data disappeared from it20:49
Venemoif it fails again I'll try btrfs20:49
tbrVenemo: yes, contact sync, but calendar doesn't20:49
Venemoggabriel: what's -c -c?20:49
Turskiok.. so it was so corrupted that it wasnt rescueable20:49
ggabrielchecks 'surface' iirc20:49
Venemotbr: true20:50
ggabrielwrite+read20:50
Venemookay, so what's the full command?20:50
Turski-c     Check the device for bad blocks before creating the file system.  If this option is specified twice, then a slower read-write test is used instead of a fast read-only test.20:50
Turskimkfs.ext4 man page20:51
VenemoTurski: sounds horribly slow20:51
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Turskibut that creates a new filesystem?20:51
ggabrielit's very.very slow20:51
Venemoyup20:51
ShadowJKAlso it doesn't detect many typical flash errors :)20:51
Venemoso what do you suggest?20:52
ggabrieli'd somehing even slower to check the full card :p20:53
Venemoggabriel: how?20:53
ggabrielok, warning: it's a bit exaggerated, but ive done it. requires space20:54
ggabrielcreate a 64gb file with dd from /dev/urandom20:55
distHmm. Did you guys lose all of the default ambiences? (any idea which package they'd be in?)20:55
ggabrielwrite that file to the sd card20:55
Turskidist: jolla-preload-ambiences20:55
ggabrielread it from the sd card20:55
tbrdist: did you uninstall the tutorial?20:55
SpeedEvilggabriel: naah - md5sum and tee20:55
disttbr: .. that did it?20:55
ggabrieldiff with original20:55
Turskidist: that package will be removed if you remove the startup wizard20:55
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distBut but but, why?20:56
tbrdist: seems there is some weird dependency between the packages20:56
Venemoisn't there a command to compensate an existing file system for such errors?20:56
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Turskiit's probably only installed as dependency for startup wizard20:56
SpeedEvildd if=/dev/random |tee /dev/blocks |md5sum -20:56
Turskidist: just install it again20:56
SpeedEvilthen md5sum /dev/blocks20:56
ShadowJKmmmh.. how does the connectivity stuff work anyway... I thought I enabled cellular data, and it seemed to promptly disconnect from wifi..20:56
distTurski: yup20:56
distThanks =)20:56
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ggabrielSpeedEvil: that works too20:57
ShadowJKurandom20:57
ggabrieli wanted mine super exhaustive :)20:57
VenemoSpeedEvil: how exactly does that help you when you want a stable filesystem?20:57
SpeedEvilVenemo: you know what you wrote, and can verify it20:57
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SpeedEvilVenemo: hence you can test the card.20:57
ggabrielVenemo: it verifies integrity20:58
TurskiVenemo: don't use /dev/random, it will be _horribly_ slow20:58
ggabrielthen u create tye fs20:58
Venemook, but can mkfs use the results of that operation?20:58
SpeedEvilggabriel: If your SD card is brute forcing md5 collisions - you have worse problems.20:58
SpeedEvilOh - I should read more scroll.20:59
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SpeedEvilIF your SD card is exhibiting read/write errors, the usual correct response is to throw it away or return it.20:59
VenemoSpeedEvil: it came suspiciously slow from an unwarranted source20:59
Venemosorry can't type today21:00
Turskior then it's ext4 bug? :P21:00
VenemoSpeedEvil: it came suspiciously cheaply from an unwarranted source21:00
Venemois what I meant21:00
SpeedEvilah21:00
TurskiVenemo: haha, no win today21:00
tbrprobably a fake card then21:00
Venemomeh!21:00
tbrpossibly even a fake that will work with vfat for e.g. 1GB of data, but fail horribly beyond that21:01
Venemois it a possibility to use that -c -c thing to check it for errors and use the usable space on the card?21:02
tbryou could partition it to only use 'safe' space. but only IF that's the case21:02
tbrotherwise the i/o errors are likely spread out at random21:02
Venemocouldn't mkfs -c -c handle that?21:03
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Venemonah, anyway, I'm giving it a try21:05
ShadowJKSD cards more or less move everything around anyways21:06
ShadowJKSpeedevil's method is the only semi-reliable method21:06
Venemobut I don't understand this - do they actually sell defunct SD cards?21:07
tbryes21:07
Yaniel"they" sure do21:07
Venemomeh!21:08
Venemoso, is it 'dd if=/dev/urandom | tee /dev/sdb1 | md5sum -' ?21:08
Venemowhat should I see on the output?21:08
tbra md5sum21:08
tbrit will take a long while21:08
Venemoand how do I know it's correct?21:08
ShadowJKIt should complete without error, give you a long string of numbers and letters21:09
ShadowJKthen you do "md5sum /dev/sdb1"21:09
tbrI'd actually use /dev/sdb21:09
ShadowJKYou get second long string of numbers and letters. It should match the first.21:09
Venemook21:09
FireFly(double-check that /dev/sdb is the right device before running it)21:09
Venemoit is21:09
FireFlygood, good21:10
Venemosda is the SSD and there're no more storage devices21:10
Venemoallright, let's see21:10
Venemoit also could be a defect in the SD card reader or its driver, though21:10
Venemoshouldn't I add a -bs parameter to dd?21:11
tbrno dash, just bs=1M or such21:13
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Morpog_MobileHow much did you pay for that card?21:16
Venemook21:16
VenemoMorpog_Mobile: 11000 HUF (~37 EUR)21:16
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Morpog_MobileHmm not cheap enough to be obviously21:17
Turskithat's not even very chep for 32G21:17
ggabrielprice is ok for the card21:18
Turski64G card can be bought for 50€21:18
ggabrielis ur reader reliable Venemo ? :)21:18
ShadowJK60E in .fi for 64G, roughly21:19
parasemiceveryone here realised cutespotify got updated and is now working pretty flawless? :)21:19
Venemosame here in verifiable locations21:19
ggabrieli find the delkin/lexar at that price21:20
parasemicbig thumbs up for Elleo!21:20
ggabrielsammys are cheapest21:20
Morpog_MobileAgain?21:20
TurskiShadowJK: http://www.data-systems.fi/tuotteet/tuote/1693321:20
Morpog_Mobileparasemic: volume working outside app?21:20
Venemohm21:20
parasemicnot yet :( but its good enough for me so i can uninstall android spotify21:21
ShadowJKparasemic; where would one find that?21:21
parasemichttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91892&page=621:21
Venemothere's an icon on the jolla called "Yandex.Store" and when I click on it, it starts and crashes immediately, is this normal?21:21
Morpog_MobileCargodock is also a great app21:21
TurskiVenemo: no, your alien is broken21:21
Morpog_MobileVenemo: no21:21
TurskiVenemo: did you try to install google play or something?21:22
StskeepsVenemo: rpm -qa | grep aliendalvik21:22
parasemicmorpog_mobile what is that?21:22
Morpog_MobileBut the best thing today was stopping that tohd.service, so much better battery life21:22
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VenemoStskeeps: aliendalvik-0.4.22-3.armv7hl21:22
ShadowJKparasemic; heh, is there going to be a repo or something for all the forum-only apps? :D21:23
Morpog_Mobileparasemic: a fikemanager21:23
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VenemoTurski: no21:23
parasemicShadowJK: i dunno :o21:23
VenemoI do not intend to break my device21:23
parasemicMorpog_mobile: link?21:23
Morpog_MobileOn tmo21:23
TurskiVenemo: well, that's how i broke my aliendalvik installation first time :P21:23
VenemoTurski: I did not attempt to do anything android-related yet21:24
Turskiok21:24
Morpog_Mobileparasemic: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92140&goto=newpost21:24
Venemoparasemic: please upload the stuff to harbour21:24
parasemicits not my stuff, i just informet people :p21:25
Morpog_MobileVenemo: some apps can't because of api's harbour diesn't accept yet21:25
Venemoif I reinstall aliendalvik with pkcon, would that help?21:25
StskeepsVenemo: did you reboot since installing android support?21:26
VenemoStskeeps: yes, the system upgrade rebooted the device automatically21:26
parasemicbtw, AirDroid works perfectly with alien dalvik21:26
VenemoStskeeps: shall I try to reboot again?21:26
Venemorebooting21:26
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Venemobtw can we - as app developers - play with the LED?21:27
VenemoStskeeps: works after reboot21:27
Morpog_MobileVenemo: mce21:28
VenemoMorpog_Mobile: hm?21:28
TurskiVenemo: at least the LED can be found under sysfs, but i think there's some higher level api for that :P21:28
VenemoTurski: that'd be great21:29
Morpog_MobileTo control the led21:29
Venemoimagine, the LED would blink if you receive an IRC message21:29
parasemicanyone else experience inconsistensy in haptic feed back of the keyboard? seems like i sometimes get none or double haptics with one press?21:29
Morpog_MobileYou can set the behavior in some file for led21:29
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Venemodid someone take the nickname Venemo on yandex or can I login with my jolla account?21:30
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TurskiVenemo: you login with yandex account21:31
parasemicMorpog_Mobile thanks for the tip, that filemanager looks really good :) and it can delete files!21:32
Turskiparasemic: i had that with 1.0.0.521:32
parasemictho cargo dock seems to have forgotten about cover, as it shows media player functions :p21:32
Turskiparasemic: do you have sailfish 1.0.1.12?21:33
parasemicTurski yes21:33
Turskiparasemic: ok, i haven't had problems with haptics after the upgrade21:34
Yanielwhere can I find cargodock?21:34
parasemicalso, some letters wont "pop up" while pressing21:34
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Morpog_PCVenemo, 20hybris-led.ini21:34
parasemicyaniel its that link Morpog sent above21:34
Morpog_PCbetter: /etc/mce/20hybris-led.ini21:35
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VenemoMorpog_PC: isn't there a higher-level API?21:35
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Morpog_PCdunno21:35
Morpog_PCdbus maybe21:35
Yanieloh21:35
TurskiVenemo: isn't that already quite high level?21:36
Elleoparasemic: thanks :)21:36
VenemoTurski: maybe, but it's not an API21:36
Morpog_PCElleo, yeah Cutespotify rocks, but the volume thing drives me crazy :)21:37
Turskirocks too loud? :)21:37
Elleoheh21:37
ElleoMorpog_PC: you can control the volume with the latest version (but only when the app is in the foreground)21:38
Morpog_PCcannot control system volume aslong cutespotify runs21:38
Morpog_PCand cannot control cutespotify aslong its not maximized21:38
Elleoyeah, in the next version I'll see if I can get it to release the volume keys when it's not focused21:38
Turskiyandex store doesn't want to install updates to my applications...21:38
parasemicwhen do you expect to get it on Jolla Store? :)21:38
Morpog_PCwhy can't it use system volume like stock media player?21:38
Turskiit downloaded the new versions but nothing happens when i click install21:39
Morpog_PCyou need to pkconinstall-local it21:39
Morpog_PCoops21:39
Morpog_PCpkcon install-local21:39
Venemowell, I got frustrated with yandex after noticing that sailfish gestures don't work with it21:39
Venemothe back button is sooo old-fashioned21:39
Yanielhehe21:40
TurskiMorpog_PC: yandex updates?21:40
Quupls21:40
Morpog_PCTurski, thought you talk about Cutespotify, lol21:40
Turski...21:40
Turskinope21:40
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ElleoMorpog_PC: I have to use qaudiooutput to handle the low level audio from libspotify, and that isn't integrated with the system audio stuff like qmediaplayer is unfortunately21:40
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pdanekFew days ago, someone posted here Christmas eCard with photos/faces of Jolla guys.21:41
Elleohopefully that'll get fixed on the sailfish side at some point21:41
pdanekDo you still have it?21:41
pdanekI need the page from it, to make my own.21:41
Morpog_PCElleo, yeah hopefully. MeeSpot was so awesome on N921:42
AJAX555so umm, can jolla play .mkv files too?21:42
Venemook, connected jolla to my laptop via USB21:42
bricker467hi, I just bricked my jolla by trying to edit /etc/fstab, now it doesn't boot anymore. has anybody any suggestions in how to access the device to correct my error?21:42
Venemoa volume called "Sailfish" appears in nautilus but when I click on it, it says: "Sorry, could not display all the contents of “Sailfish”: Failed to get folder list: -1: Unspecified error"21:42
Quubricker467: sounds like 200e + shipping.21:42
Morpog_PCpdanek, http://host-d.oddcast.com/php/application_UI/doorId=1177/clientId=299/?mId=53331766.321:42
pdanekthx21:42
Morpog_PCbricker467, try to ping Stskeeps21:43
bricker467whats stskeeps?21:43
Morpog_PCa jolla employe21:44
Stskeepsbricker467: that was not very clever21:44
Quudickbutt21:44
bricker467i know not cleber but done anyway21:44
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TurskiElleo: what device is cutespotify outputting the audio?21:45
Stskeepsbricker467: so, you probably have to send back your device and get it reflashed, since you did it in developer mode, it's your own fault and there may be a service cost21:45
bricker467:( ok21:46
Turskioh, there's source available...21:46
ElleoTurski: default puseaudio device21:46
Elleopulseaudio*21:46
Stskeepsbricker467: do you have a linux PC?21:46
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bricker467yes21:47
Venemobricker467: not what, who21:47
bricker467\stskeeps yes21:48
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Turskibricker467: umm... what were you trying to do by editing fstab?21:48
Stskeepsbricker467: what distribution?21:48
bricker467stskeeps: newest ubuntu21:48
bricker467Turski: trying for sdcard... wasn't the smartest thing to do21:49
Turskiquite weird you managed to brick it with that if you knew what you were doing21:50
bricker467i thought i knew21:51
Turskibut i wouldn't touch fstab of device with no way to get in without working os installed21:51
spider-marioI didn’t know I would also love the appearence of the OS so much21:52
spider-marioit is so beautiful21:52
Turskiand putting sdcard to fstab isn't good idea anyway, since there's some other stuff that's done by mount-sd.sh21:52
spider-marioit must be the single most beautiful UI I’ve ever seen21:52
Turskibricker467: instead i would edit mount-sd-sh21:52
ggabrielspider-mario: get a room!21:52
parasemichmm, wonder if Jolla will run GTA: San Andreas:p21:53
tigeliparasemic: try ;)21:54
parasemicim trying, but i just realised i dont even have a torrent software downloaded :D21:55
Stskeepsspider-mario: oh my god it's full of stars21:55
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spider-mario:D21:56
spider-marioseriously, I’m just there, staring at my screen21:56
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spider-marioand its beautiful text on a beautiful background and beautiful breadcrumbs21:57
spider-marioI also love the time picker widget21:57
spider-mario:p21:57
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spider-marioand all the transitions21:57
Morpog_PCspider-mario, are you sure there aren't some double or even tripple rainbos there?21:58
Stskeepsspider-mario: did you create your own ambience yet?21:58
spider-marioyes21:58
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FireFlyHm, is only vfat supported for the memory card?21:58
Morpog_PCspider-mario, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOQSNhk5ICTI&ei=C7K4UprXGMrUtQaJu4GYBA&usg=AFQjCNFlGR1fmg2UVI9P4EWGXlKyB6JcwQ&sig2=TAlozHYXBhQ8q-GMte6BwA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.Yms21:58
Morpog_PCor shorter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI21:59
spider-mariocurrently with this image: https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/431979_3472908547373_855871905_n.jpg21:59
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TurskiFireFly: how many times we need to have this conversation in one day?22:00
FireFlySorry :(22:00
FireFlyI guess I should pay better attention to #jollamobile22:00
FireFlys/better/more/22:00
spider-marioyeah, I don’t do drugs. :D22:01
spider-mariounless you count music22:02
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ShadowJKthe "is only vfat supported?" conversation will stop when other fs support implemented? :)22:03
dunpjust juse kernel and udev  to mount any fs :)22:04
Stskeepsreiserfs, the murderous fs.. now on your phone22:04
FireFly:D22:04
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ggabrielhaha22:04
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dunpi had it on my n900 :) and i used usb-dvd drive too :)22:05
dunpand keyboard on it22:05
dunpusb-dvb-t card  too22:06
VenemoSpeedEvil: your awful command is still running :P22:09
SpeedEvilVenemo: it's going to take hours likely22:09
VenemoSpeedEvil: awesome22:09
VenemoI'm going to have to leave it as a surprise for tomorrow then22:10
ggabrielVenemo: time for bed? :)22:10
Venemoggabriel: surely. it's 11pm here22:13
ShadowJKhm... are timers killed when screen is off?22:13
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StskeepsShadowJK: it's not nokia PM at least22:15
ShadowJKso I have to open network socket and ping it across the interwebs?22:17
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ShadowJKwell "nokia pm" is linux pm isn't it22:19
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skvarkjust printed a new TOH for myself :) http://relativity.fi/jolla_toh/22:20
* ShadowJK was trying to do what he always does on new device: make battery logger :)22:20
Turskiskvark: nice :)22:21
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parasemichmm carbo dock won't copy my gta folder22:21
Turskiskvark: does it  feel sturdy?22:22
ShadowJKhm.. does this mean if I get irssi, I'd ping out whenever screen goes off? :)22:22
Venemolol, that'd be the worst thing ever22:23
SpeedEvilShadowJK: somehow, yes22:23
ggabrielShadowJK: if this is a deep suspend issue, there might be a way of turning it off22:23
SpeedEvilShadowJK: sleep 1 never retirns22:23
ZogG_laptopdo we have logs alreay22:23
ggabrieli think i saw it n tmo recently22:23
Venemoskvark: you are awesome22:23
skvarkTurski: well the model is still missing half of the brackets which keep it in place, but it's pretty sturdy22:23
VenemoZogG_laptop: yes, see /topic22:23
skvarkmodel can be found from here: https://github.com/skvark/TheOtherHalf22:24
ZogG_laptopVenemo: i did after i asked :D asked for them a while ago when we didn;t have :D22:24
arnbakon the jolla official video, theres a loading indicator led on top of the device; anyone got that enabled on or regular jolla devices ?22:24
Turskiarnbak: huh?22:25
ggabrielarnbak: that seems to be a proximity sensor22:25
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: what was the resolution of "pull the battery - break fs" problem? i heard you helped someone few days ago22:25
Turskiarnbak: yeah, you must be talking about proximity sensor22:25
StskeepsZogG_laptop: you have the problem?22:25
VenemoSpeedEvil: actually dd uses > 50% CPU for this stuff, lol22:26
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SpeedEvilIt's not really dd - it's random22:26
Venemoyeah, surely22:26
Venemoit's dd that's reading it22:26
Venemowell, I just used urandom after all22:27
arnbakTurski: it looks like its a loading indicator22:27
Stskeepsarnbak: proximity sensor22:27
Turskiit wouldn't finish this year if you used random22:27
arnbakah22:27
Stskeepsit shows up on a camera or in dark surroundings22:27
Venemoso, what's the official way to connect the jolla to a linux pc to copy files to it?22:28
FireFlyskvark: looks nice, I like the semi-translucency it seems to have22:28
TurskiVenemo: mtp22:28
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: nope22:28
VenemoTurski: how does that work?22:28
TurskiVenemo: but sshfs is better and faster22:28
TurskiVenemo: google22:28
TurskiVenemo: depends on your distribution and desktop environment22:29
arnbakiøvrigt, Stskeeps jeg skal hilse igen ;)22:29
Venemo[22:42] <Venemo> a volume called "Sailfish" appears in nautilus but when I click on it, it says: "Sorry, could not display all the contents of “Sailfish”: Failed to get folder list: -1: Unspecified error"22:29
VenemoTurski: ^22:29
ZogG_laptopStskeeps: i'll get my phone only next month as my friend delayed flight to me and i ordered to his place, but i want to know if those problems can be resolved localy or i would need to send them to yo22:29
TurskiVenemo: i have never tried mtp, i use just sshfs22:30
parasemicok, gta san andreas confirmed to work :D22:30
VenemoTurski: you mean you connect to it via ssh?22:30
FireFlyTurski: hm, ssh over wlan?22:30
TurskiVenemo: sshfs is reported to be something like 3 times faster than mtp :P22:30
TurskiFireFly: usb22:30
HarhaanJohtajawhats the hole for between usb port and jolla text?22:30
ZogG_laptopVenemo: do you have log and have you tried other mtpfs devices?22:30
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VenemoZogG_laptop: haven't tried others, haven't looked at log22:30
skvarkFireFly: yeah, some PLA plastics behave like that :)22:31
VenemoTurski: usb networking just doesn't work22:31
VenemoTurski: it works over wifi but speed is suboptimal22:31
TurskiVenemo: put the device to developer mode22:31
VenemoTurski: it is in developer mode22:31
ZogG_laptopi bet he did22:31
TurskiVenemo: did you give it an ip?22:31
ZogG_laptopotherwise how he uses ssh22:31
VenemoTurski: I use the default setting22:31
TurskiVenemo: from your pc22:31
VenemoTurski: it just doesn't work, I even can't ping it from the laptop22:32
TurskiVenemo: did you give it an ip?22:32
VenemoTurski: no, I let it use the default22:32
Turskiif the interface has no ip, of course you can't ping it22:32
Venemoman, why does this have to be so hard?22:32
TurskiVenemo: network interface won't have ip by default22:32
VenemoI just want to copy a bunch of files22:32
TurskiVenemo: for example $ ip a add 192.168.2.14 dev usb022:32
TurskiVenemo: at your pc when the jolla is pluggen in in developer mode22:33
ZogG_laptopVenemo: check log for mtpfs22:33
TurskiVenemo: sounds like you didn't give it a ip22:33
TurskiVenemo: since you have no idea what i'm talking about22:33
TurskiVenemo: so do that and it will work22:33
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HtheBguys, how can I ssh to Jolla?22:34
Turski-_-22:34
HtheBwhat are the default user and password22:34
Turskinemo is user22:34
Turskipassword is set in developer mode settings22:34
HtheBok22:34
HtheBnemo is root?22:34
Turskino22:34
arnbakHtheB: devel-su22:34
arnbakand your pw, gives you root22:34
TurskiVenemo: does it work now?22:35
HtheBah, typing devel-su as 'user'22:35
arnbakthe pw, as Turski said is set in developer mode settings.22:35
arnbakHtheB: login to the device as nemo22:35
HtheBarnbak: ok now I get it! :P22:35
ZogG_laptopHtheB: developer mode -> set password, user nemo22:35
HtheBZogG_laptop: got it!22:35
HtheBthanks all :)22:35
HtheBby default, I just thought it's root and pass by ssh settings22:36
ZogG_laptopTurski: beat me22:36
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ZogG_laptopTurski's nick remind me of Turkish from Snatch22:36
Turski:)22:36
HtheBI'm Turkish... :P22:36
ZogG_laptopHtheB: not turkish as from turkey, but as character in movie22:37
HtheBI know Turk, in Scrubs as a character22:37
arnbakwhat are you afraid of, zee germans ?22:37
arnbakawesome movie, Snatch :-)22:37
VenemoTurski: I'll try tomorrow, I'm really half-asleep already22:38
ShadowJKSpeedEvil; is there an alternative magic sleep that does return? :D22:38
HtheBI haven't checked the jolla store yet, but are there any native file browsers yet?22:38
arnbakHtheB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heiyM61dfio22:39
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arnbakHtheB: thats not a link to a native file browser btw :-)22:39
HtheBarnbak: yeah i already noticed :P22:39
HtheBwhen I saw snatch22:39
HtheBhang on watching it22:39
ZogG_laptoparnbak: do you like puppies22:40
spider-marioHtheB : browser, yeah22:40
spider-mariobut just that22:40
spider-marioyou can browse your files with it22:40
spider-mariobut not do anything with them22:40
TurskiHtheB: you can install jolla-fileman with pkcon22:40
HtheBspider-mario: you mean file:// ?22:40
SpeedEvilShadowJK: while truel do sleep 60; ssh nemo@phone read battery...22:40
HtheBTurski: pkcon?22:40
spider-marioHtheB : no, I mean the file browser in the store22:40
SpeedEvilShadowJK: That's not actually insane but is a bit silly22:40
spider-mario(but maybe there is more than one and I’ve missed the others)22:41
TurskiHtheB: pkcon is the cli tool for package management22:41
TurskiHtheB: pkcon install jolla-fileman22:41
VenemoI just coined a new hashtag on Twitter22:42
Venemo#JollaForTheWin22:42
HtheBah, like apt-get22:42
ShadowJKSpeedEvil; so I need a portable wifi clock pulse generator? :)22:42
arnbakHtheB: its rpm based now22:42
arnbakZogG_laptop: but ofcourse22:43
HtheBarnbak: yeah, too bad :(22:43
HtheBnever used rpm22:43
HtheBalways debian22:43
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ZogG_laptopVenemo: you used it on me22:44
VenemoZogG_laptop: yes!22:45
ShadowJKOh hey, infinite loops don't die with screen off22:45
HtheBarnbak: Thanks! filebrowser works22:45
ZogG_laptopVenemo: so what's positive sides except yet other new gadget to play with? (not trolling, just wonder)22:45
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HtheBdoes anyone knwos if something happens when 'opening' an apk file?22:46
parasemicis there a way to see which apps are installable through pkcon?22:46
HtheBjust clcked on one of them, but nothing happened (altough it installed something)22:46
ShadowJK(while true; do date +%s ; done) | uniq22:46
ShadowJKLack of working sleep, fixed. :>22:46
arnbakHtheB: "opening" a apk file from the ui on device installs the android package.22:47
ShadowJKno wait, this time it killed that one too :-(22:47
arnbakHtheB: if you have android support installed that is.22:47
VenemoZogG_laptop: UI is extremely smooth and very usable. Gestures are natural and feel right. I love the ambience thingy and that the jolla is very fast. I also like the form factor and the exterior design.22:47
VenemoI could go on22:47
HtheBarnbak: yeah I did22:47
Morpog_Mobilehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92140&goto=newpost HtheB22:48
HtheBThey could at least make some 'visual thing' so you know something is happening22:48
Venemothat being said, I did find about a dozen bugs just tonight. but so far the positives outweigh the negatives22:48
arnbakHtheB: you're as it is now, not getting any feedback when clicking on the apk file, just a confirmation that 'Program' have been installed.22:48
HtheBThanks Morpog_Mobile ! :)22:49
Morpog_Mobile:)22:49
HtheBarnbak: yeah, just noticed when clicking on playstore22:49
HtheBmessage popped up22:49
HtheBmaybe in the future?22:49
HtheBbecause it's like "nothing is happening" right now22:49
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Is there cron?22:50
ShadowJKthere's gcc, so there can be anything22:50
* SpeedEvil hasn't found a gcc package.22:50
HtheBdid someone already found teh hosts files?22:51
HtheBto block the adds :)22:51
ShadowJKpkcon search name gcc turned up a bunch22:51
HtheB(adds within the android apps)22:51
ShadowJKPresumably cron will run everything simultaneously when screen comes on, though :P22:51
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - I haven't worked out which one to install - I think I saw the list and went to sleep on reflection22:52
HtheBanyone?22:54
arnbakHtheB: 2 secs22:54
HtheBtnx22:55
arnbakHtheB: haven't tried it yet, but theres a hosts file in /opt/alien/etc/22:55
ZogG_laptopVenemo: it's coz it's new22:55
VenemoZogG_laptop: yes. the bugs'll be fixed, I'm sure of that22:56
Venemoalso, the bugs I found are less annoying than the glitches I usually find on androids22:56
HtheBhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=191609822:56
Turskihttp://turski.dy.fi/foo/jollakarhu1.png :P22:56
ZogG_laptopVenemo: what was your last phone?22:56
arnbakHtheB: all android related runs from the /opt/alien/*22:56
ZogG_laptopVenemo: before you got jolla?22:56
Turskioriginal image: http://i.imgur.com/DPkhfDz.jpg22:56
VenemoZogG_laptop: I used a nokia n9 and a geeksphone peak with firefox os22:57
nanderLol, I was at a bar evening of the canoe-ing club I'm a member of22:57
nanderLots of people were interested in my phone ;)22:57
nanderIt really looks different xD22:57
nanderMost people like the appearance22:57
VenemoZogG_laptop: I've seen many-many android phones with my friends and collegaues but all of them were quite sluggish and had various glitches22:57
ZogG_laptopVenemo: ha. most people even who loved N9 switched to android :)22:57
ZogG_laptopVenemo: every phone have bugs and glitches22:58
HtheBarnbak: I will try it then :)22:58
HtheBJust installed Shazam, with freakin' ads22:58
ZogG_laptopthere is nothing perfect22:58
VenemoZogG_laptop: so even though there were some androids where I liked the exterior design, I always found so many flaws in the OS that I couldn't get myself to pay any money for them22:58
ZogG_laptopand never would \, as there is always what we can improve22:58
nanderSome people used it for 30 secs or so and they were convinced ;)22:58
VenemoZogG_laptop: nothing's perfect. but I like the imperfectness of jolla more than the imperfectness of android. that is all. do you allow me that much?22:59
ZogG_laptopVenemo: let's say you would get android foor free, woul you switch from N9?22:59
nanderThey agreed it's very userfriendly and quick22:59
nanderAnd looks beautiful22:59
nanderAnd they called it fast ;)22:59
ZogG_laptopVenemo: you are free man and i hope in free country :P22:59
VenemoZogG_laptop: depends. if it's annoying then no if it's better, then yes22:59
nanderThat's because the animations are at the speed of the user ;)22:59
Venemofree country? I sometimes have my doubts about that22:59
nanderIf you switch screens fast it switches fast22:59
Venemonander: don't mind ZogG_laptop, he is the local negativist here :)23:00
ZogG_laptopVenemo: then go to live in russia for few years so you can come back to your country to feel free23:00
VenemoZogG_laptop: okay, I guess there's always something worse23:00
ZogG_laptopVenemo: btw that's exactly my point. that if everything else is so shitty doesn't make something less shitty a good thing23:00
VenemoZogG_laptop: yes it does23:01
arnbakHtheB: report back :-) would love to hear if it works !23:01
VenemoZogG_laptop: and jolla is not "less shitty" because I wouldn't say it's shitty. I also wouldn't say android is shitty. I only say that I do not like android and that I like jolla.23:01
HtheBarnbak: [nemo@localhost Downloads]$ cp hosts /opt/alien/system/etc/ cp: cannot create regular file `/opt/alien/system/etc/hosts': Permission denied23:02
arnbakHtheB: devel-su ?23:02
ZogG_laptopVenemo: i don;t call them shitty, it's just to make a point23:02
HtheBugh ¬¬23:02
VenemoZogG_laptop: and the point is?23:02
* HtheB fails23:02
ZogG_laptopVenemo: that you build trust23:02
HtheBforget to 'enable' devel-su23:03
ZogG_laptopand you build respect23:03
HtheBafter logging in with ssh :P23:03
ZogG_laptopby support and hard work23:03
ZogG_laptopand i know they work hard23:03
arnbakHtheB: know that feeling :-)23:03
ZogG_laptopbut they fail in building trust23:03
HtheBok, copied!23:03
TurskiHtheB: what are you doing?23:03
HtheBrebooting device :)23:03
HtheBreplacing hosts files23:03
HtheBwithin alien23:03
ZogG_laptopand people still keep running after them with closed eyes which in my opinion is wrong23:03
HtheBto block ads23:03
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Turskiah23:04
arnbakHtheB: yes just within alien, not the system wide host file :-)23:04
VenemoZogG_laptop: if you don't want the jolla, don't buy. if you don't like it, don't buy. if you think you can help with it, then help. but there is no point in uselessly whining about it every day. we heard your point many times.23:04
ZogG_laptopVenemo: it's always about small details as if you fail in those, what it would lead to?23:04
HtheBworks!23:04
HtheBno ads!23:04
VenemoZogG_laptop: precisely. and so far I like the small details I see on jolla23:05
arnbakHtheB: so you killed the ads!23:05
HtheBhar harr23:05
arnbak!23:05
ZogG_laptopVenemo: yes they did, but same problems keep poping up so why i can't repeat?23:05
VenemoZogG_laptop: whereas I did not like the small details on android. man, I even saw a samsung where the caption of the "enter" key was outside of the key's area.23:06
ZogG_laptoparnbak: HtheB not so smart to block things from hosts23:06
Venemoany QA person could've noticed that in 2 seconds, lol23:06
HtheBZogG_laptop: why is taht23:06
arnbakZogG_laptop: hosts block on an android device is a easy fix to block ads ?23:07
ZogG_laptopVenemo: i saw n5 and 4 and they were fine. 3 was ok23:07
ZogG_laptoparnbak: when it would bllock your facebook or other app that uses data to host you entered and you would forget, who would you blame?23:08
HtheBZogG_laptop: it's a host file for 'ads' only23:08
HtheBand I dont use FB :)23:08
HtheBi just hate to see those banners on any app23:09
ZogG_laptopit's host file for android emulator thing23:09
arnbakZogG_laptop: who would you blame other than your self, if you're fiddling with the system in that way, you would probably be aware that it might cause problems.23:09
ZogG_laptopHtheB: pay for app or use different23:09
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ortylpHtheB: then DO  NOT INSTALL apps, that need ADS!23:09
HtheBortylp: gimme shazam with no ads23:10
ZogG_laptoparnbak: open TMO and find thread with someone crying something not working and at the end it's coz he used advice with hosts file :P23:10
HtheBthere are some apps like "prayer times" that are free.. with ads :(23:10
ortylpHtheB: what is shazam?23:10
HtheBno 'payed' apps23:10
HtheBortylp: shazam = music detector app23:10
ZogG_laptopHtheB: soundhound23:10
HtheBsoundhound has also ads afaik23:11
ortylpHtheB: why would I need something like this?23:11
HtheBortylp: yes, why would YOU need it? :)23:11
HtheBbecause I need it...23:11
ZogG_laptopand HtheB they are FREE because of ads, you actually paying back to author by having ads, he gave you chance to download for free and you pay back that way?23:11
HtheBZogG_laptop: there are apps that are only free23:12
HtheBlike prayer times :)23:12
ZogG_laptopfor this reason23:12
ZogG_laptoprespect developer choice23:12
HtheBi dont respect the ads ;p23:12
ortylpHtheB: then write to the developers saying, that their app is great, and you would pay X amount of whatever to get the functionality without ads...23:12
ZogG_laptopcontact him and ask for paid version or use alternative or write own one23:12
arnbakHtheB: ZogG_laptop: have a point actually23:12
HtheBI know, but still :)23:12
arnbakin regards to why ads are there.23:12
HtheBsince google play isn't officially supported...23:13
HtheBthen there is no way to "get payed apps" from playstore23:13
HtheBso: hosts files ftw anyway23:13
ZogG_laptoparnbak: i always have a point, pitty people listen to me when it's too late23:13
HtheBZogG_laptop: lol :P23:13
VenemoZogG_laptop: I always listen to you!23:13
ZogG_laptopVenemo: i know P23:14
HtheBthe hosts files are also good for the browser23:14
ortylpHtheB: I have copied all .apk files of apps I bought on playstore, everything works23:14
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HtheBortylp: ok :)23:14
arnbakZogG_laptop: because I agrey with with you in having a point, does not mean that I would not fiddle with the hosts file.23:14
arnbakagree*23:14
ZogG_laptopVenemo: it was more sarcastic as i can't always have point :D23:14
HtheBloading all the ads when on a website, is also a pain in the ass23:14
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VenemoZogG_laptop: you can. I always have a point, too23:14
ZogG_laptoplike rule 1 i'm always right, rule 2 if i'm wrong check rule one23:14
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ZogG_laptopVenemo: not in phylosophic way23:15
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ortylpZogG_laptop: sorry, there is also watchdog with timeout in place :P23:15
ZogG_laptopi mean point - when you actually right in something23:15
VenemoZogG_laptop: maybe you don't, I do23:16
ZogG_laptopHtheB: you want to ban ads be a man use iptables23:16
ZogG_laptopVenemo: okay :P23:16
ortylpHtheB: you need root on the android device, the files you need are in /mnt/asec/23:17
ZogG_laptopVenemo: just by telling you that you don't have always point you make a paradox23:17
HtheBthe hosts files are in /system/etc/23:17
VenemoZogG_laptop: no. I said I always have a point23:17
ZogG_laptopas if you do have then you have no point in saying you don't always have but then again you don't have ...23:17
ZogG_laptopanyway23:18
ZogG_laptopgood night23:18
Venemosrsly man, there's too late for this for me23:18
Venemogoing to sleep, bye23:18
ZogG_laptopbye23:18
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ZogG_laptopme too23:18
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eyeahello all23:37
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Venemohey SpeedEvil you still here?23:39
SpeedEvilPerhaps.23:39
eyeai got my jolla today does any one knows  how to set the secrity code or know what it is?23:39
VenemoSpeedEvil: I've got this result: tee: /dev/sdb: No space left on device23:40
SpeedEvileyea: you mean a lock password?23:40
SpeedEvilVenemo: yes - that's expected - it should also give a long string of numbers23:40
VenemoSpeedEvil: which seems normal, but I don't see an md5 sum23:40
eyeayep23:40
SpeedEvilOops - well - I diddn't actually check it'd work.23:40
VenemoSpeedEvil: however dd didn't stop and nor do I see anything that looks like an md5 sum, just this one line23:40
SpeedEvilOdd.23:40
SpeedEvilI though tee would terminate on file write fail23:41
eyeadoes any know what it is?23:41
eyea5 digit code!23:41
VenemoSpeedEvil: in any case, there weren't any errors during the write operation23:41
Turskieyea: just explore the settings23:41
Turskieyea: it's there23:42
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eyeai know23:43
SpeedEvilVenemo: That's a plus - but there is no verifiication when read23:43
eyeawhats the code!23:43
SpeedEvilwritten23:43
VenemoSpeedEvil: yep, I know23:43
Turskieyea: ?23:43
SpeedEvilVenemo: sorry for silly error.23:43
Turskieyea: you need to set it23:44
eyeasecurity code23:44
eyeahow23:44
VenemoSpeedEvil: no problem. if you have an idea how to do it properly I might leave it on for the night, otherwise I'll just run an mkfs.ext4 -c -c and hope for the best23:44
Turskieyea: from the doggamn settings!23:44
eyeamay i ask23:44
Turskigo to device lock settings and set it, what's the problem there?23:45
chem|stdid anyone have issues with modem shutting down (hardware) completely?23:45
ShadowJKchem|st; seen people reporting "sim card lost" type stuff23:45
Venemoeyea: security code is something that helps you protect the device. you go to settings -> system settings -> device lock to set it23:45
ShadowJKeyea; are you talking about jolla account password?23:46
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chem|stI read about SIM issues but the phone was responsive to things like settings for phone and stuff but no 2G/3G connection at all reception zero, second device right next to me with full reception23:46
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eyeano23:47
chem|stsecond jolla that is23:47
eyeasecurity code23:47
Turskieyea: i really have no idea what's your problem23:47
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Turskiyou need to give some more details23:48
eyeaphone security code23:48
eyeanot pin23:48
chem|steyea: yes device lock23:48
Turskiand what's the problem?23:48
Turskior are those only words of english you know?23:49
chem|stTurski: dont be rude23:49
eyeaits asks for one23:49
Turskieyea: you probably did set it at some point then23:49
eyeaah yes23:50
Turskichem|st: i was not being rude23:50
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Turskichem|st: cmon, that could be the case23:50
Venemo_meh23:50
chem|stTurski: "00:49 < Turski> or are those only words of english you know?" is rude!23:50
eyeanow i remember23:50
eyeathanks23:50
nanderAfter 4 more hours with my jolla.. I don't want different anymore23:50
nanderThis is the grown up version of meego23:50
chem|stnander: :)23:50
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nanderIt shows the potential of meego, and more23:51
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chem|stwho is responsible for gecko?23:51
Venemo_eyea: yes, I'm talking about device lock, not pin code23:51
Turskichem|st: nah23:51
nanderThe mouse input doesn't work that great on the browser though23:51
Venemo_anyway, good night guys23:52
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nanderI now tell people it's a brilliant, incomplete system23:52
eyeadone it23:52
chem|stnander: mouse?23:52
nanderEmphasizing the brilliant23:52
nanderClick23:52
ShadowJKYoutube seems stuck in tinyvideo, and zoom to pinch doesn't work :)23:52
nanderSometimes I can't click input fields23:52
nanderI use the official youtube app23:52
chem|styeah known bug...23:52
eyeathanks thanks for the memory  jog23:52
nanderthe youtube android app stops in tinymode thoug23:53
nanderthough*23:53
chem|stShadowJK: switching tabs is aweful as it reloads pages... if you try to copy from one page to another's input field you have the fields reset...23:53
ShadowJKUGH!!!23:54
ShadowJKThat's my biggest issue with using androids actually!23:54
ShadowJKI was hoping jolla would multitask and not do that shit :)23:54
Turskii don't use the native browser if there's no absolute reason to use it23:54
chem|stShadowJK: my sister just tried to do that and complained^^23:54
nanderit just shouldn't refresh23:55
nanderWell, the advantage is you use less memory23:55
nanderDisadvantage: more data, less functional23:55
chem|stTurski: the absolute reason is to only use sailfish native apps before using android BS23:55
Turskibut hey, they are hiring a browser engineer so maybe we will get a better browser Soon™23:55
chem|stnander: more data could be refered to as bug!23:55
ShadowJKalso the whole point of tabs is you can load stuff in background so you dont have to stare at blank screen for half a minute23:56
Turskichem|st: but the native browser is not good at the moment23:56
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chem|stTurski: android is not good atm23:56
nanderI like how it remembers different volume settings for both with headphones and without23:56
chem|stlater o/23:56
nanderI know it's standard in loads of linuxes, but it's good to see it available ;)23:56
Turskichem|st: but firefox for android is much better than jolla browser23:57
ShadowJKI used to screen-off android devices and put in pocket at first, to check again a minute later, but quickly discovered they dont do anything if you do that...23:57
ShadowJKfirefox in android also does the reloading thing, but less consistently. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn't :P23:57
HtheBdoes anyone has the latest flash support?23:58
Turskisometimes i also use dolphin browser, i don't yet quite know which one is better23:58
HtheBwhich supports by jolla23:58
TurskiHtheB: there's no flash support on jolla23:58
SpeedEvilI don't think there is a working flash.23:58
SpeedEvilWould be nice.23:58
nanderfuck flash ;)23:58
HtheBflash for android...23:58
SpeedEvil(I know, but...)23:58
Turskiflash is obsolete23:58
HtheBTurski: not yet ;)23:58
Turskishould be23:59
HtheBa lot of websites still uses flash23:59
HtheBI dont care23:59
nandera lot?23:59
Turskiyea, it's sad23:59
nanderA few23:59
ShadowJKthere's no flash on android anymore23:59
nandervideo sites23:59
HtheBnander: not that I use ;)23:59
SpeedEvilSometimes there isn't an alternative.23:59
nanderpoor you23:59
ShadowJKAndroid 4.0 was last with flash, iirc23:59
HtheBShadowJK: Doesnt mean that you cant install flash23:59
SpeedEvilShadowJK: with it downloadable from the store - maybe23:59
HtheBShadowJK: yes, but they are compatible even with 4.423:59

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