#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2014-02-22

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Renee19 You can find funny videos here. http://bit.do/my_videos6902:04
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Rachel24 Hi! I give you some videos. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos6906:03
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Ana25 Hi! I give you some videos. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos6908:03
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Hartzifuck I hate those bots08:43
ericcckill  it08:44
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Venemo_jso08:48
Venemo_jtime for february update?08:48
StskeepsVenemo_j: there was a together.* post.. hang on08:48
tbrVenemo_j: time for the craze around it at least08:48
Stskeepshttps://together.jolla.com/question/29506/official-announcement-the-next-update-release-is-in-early-march/08:48
tbrI highly suspect it's going to be after MWC08:48
Stskeeps(yes, we actually communicate on it..)08:49
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Venemo_jah, thanks Stskeeps08:49
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messertingSo, why do Jolla wait till after MWC for the next update?08:50
messertingTo get away with all the marketing talk, before the community get the chance to say if version 1.0 is usable or not? I think so. Comments?08:50
Stskeepsouch :)08:51
Venemo_jmesserting: lol08:51
Venemo_jhm08:51
messerting:)08:51
lpotterheh08:51
Stskeepsno, it's much more sinister than that, preparing for big demos always take out resources that would normally go into pushing updates out08:51
Stskeepsbe it QA, designer, coder resources08:51
tbrmesserting: I suspect it's more of a "software is ready, we can show it at MWC, but no time to do release QA thing"08:51
mikmai sure hope it's usable. because 1.0.3.8 is quite horrible08:51
Venemo_jtracker sometimes forgets everything on the SD card?08:52
Stskeepsso to ensure quality, it's better to delay a bit08:52
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Venemo_jI'm all for quality08:52
messertingBut you already had the fix for random shutdowns for a while now, why not release it?08:52
Stskeepsmesserting: it goes into the same bucket, putting out hotfixes especially in key areas require approximately the same amount of resources as a full release.08:53
Stskeepsi'm looking forward to getting the release out, my wife is nagging me about some issues08:53
messertingNah, I shouldn't bother you, I hope the best for the MWC, and am looking forward to the next update.08:53
Stskeepsso, speaking to the choir, but things need to take the time they need to08:53
Venemo_jStskeeps: thanks for communicating it this clearly! the comms people deserve a pat on their shoulders!08:54
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mikmaah the wives. the most demanding users ever08:54
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Stskeepsi follow development releases, you guys can be truly happy that you don't have to suffer through some of the problems that branch has once in a while08:56
Stskeepsno QA whatsoever08:56
Venemo_jheh08:57
Venemo_joh, found new bug08:58
messertingQA is good. But I am a bit worried about what direction Jolla will take.08:59
Venemo_jif you delete an event in the calendar app but switch to a different day before the remorse timer is completed, the event is not deleted08:59
Stskeepsmesserting: oh?08:59
messerting3.party cloudstorage before owncloud support...?08:59
messertingMicrosoft exchange sync, but no caldav?08:59
Stskeepsit's a consumer offering - personally i'd like owncloud support and i bet my wife would like caldav09:00
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messertingThe hardcore early adopters expects nothing less than Nokia N9. Will we get what we hope for, or will Jolla focus on "Angry birds" first..? :P09:01
Venemo_jwell09:01
Stskeepsyou should have been the 2000+ elements list of requirements for nokia n909:01
Venemo_jthey need to get into thr head of the average user, too09:01
Stskeepswe'd have shipped in 201809:01
Stskeepsbeen/seen09:01
tbrmesserting: the hardcore people have skipped that step and are extending the os by themselves, go figure09:01
Venemo_jnah09:02
ln-messerting: the N9 offered Angry birds pre-installed, so...09:02
tbrbecause most of it is open source09:02
Stskeepspersonally i believe more in enablers, provide a good simple platform that can be extended09:02
Venemo_jthe middleware that's behind that thing - the framework for sync and whatnot  - is open source09:02
tbr+109:02
Stskeepsie, accounts framework, sane interfaces for cloud interfacing, different IM protocol, etc09:02
lpottern9 also had hundreds more developers09:02
Stskeepsyeah, 2000+ vs 90..09:02
Venemo_jyou can go and contribute09:03
Stskeepsnot developers all of them, i'm sure that 1900 was middle managers09:03
Stskeeps:P09:03
lpotterhehhehe09:03
messertinghaha, get your point :)09:03
Venemo_jStskeeps: lol09:03
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Stskeepsbut anyway.. we're working hard to provide as much as we can as we go along09:06
Venemo_j:)09:07
Stskeepsplus (please don't throw rocks at me) being able to have sailfishos on multiple devices09:08
Stskeepswith a common os, just seperate hw adaptations09:08
mikmai'd love to see a requirement list for android devices that can run sailfishos09:09
Stskeepscan it run cm10.1?09:09
Stskeeps..that's about it09:09
messertingStskeeps: That is truly awesome, and something we have longed for on mobile for years09:09
mikmaoh..09:09
messertingseparate os from hw, I mean09:09
Stskeepsbut there's still some sweat and grease needed09:09
mikmabecause i know that ie. samsung galaxy s3 mini has so closed up cpu that it's a pain for the developing community09:10
Stskeepsnod09:10
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Venemo_jhm10:02
Venemo_jwhy would anyone want to use ARM for servers?10:03
Stskeepslower power usage?10:03
ggabrielanother option (competition is good)10:03
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Emily27 Here some videos. I hope you like them! http://bit.do/my_videos6910:04
ggabrieli wouldn't try tho10:04
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Venemo_jwell10:05
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Venemo_jlower power consumption is good, but since when can ARM even come close to intel in terms of performance?10:06
ln-not all servers are that performance critical.10:06
Stskeepswhat ln- said10:06
Stskeepsin practice you often have a bunch of semi idle servers10:06
ggabrielthta's why virtualisation is so popular... nobody needs real performance10:06
ggabrielor almost nobody10:06
ggabriel(that's why my laptop performs better than an XL amazon instance....)10:07
Venemo_jheh10:07
Venemo_jwell, why not10:08
ggabrielthis conversation reminds me of vmware's pitch: we guarantee that your servers will be utilised 100% and you won't waste infrastructure10:09
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Venemo_jI can see the point, but it still seems like a long shot10:11
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Sail0ris data in younite encrypted by default?11:06
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Morpog_doesn't seem so Sail0r11:15
Morpog_http://blog.younited.com/2013/10/22/privacy-by-design/11:15
Morpog_or11:16
Morpog_wait11:16
Morpog_lol11:16
Morpog_http://blog.younited.com/2013/11/05/building-security-in/11:16
Sail0rhm about:addons is not available in webcat :-/11:16
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Morpog_why should it, it's not based on Gecko11:17
ggabrielwebkit11:17
Sail0rah i thought it's also based on gecko11:17
Sail0rI hope it's not activated by default to use younite11:20
ggabrielwhy would it?11:21
ggabrielnot even icloud is activated by default11:22
Sail0rdunno just a question :)11:22
M4rtinK2Morpog_: @younited: "It is by purpose that we do not provide end-to-end encryption for your files"11:22
mikmagood news, only 45 minutes left before we get another spambot visit!11:22
Waiteelol11:23
Yanielstatistics?11:23
M4rtinK2Morpog_: so nothing new, the same public cloud "privacy" & "security"11:23
Waiteegoddamn bots11:23
Morpog_mmmh11:23
Waitee"make a bot that autobans if someone joins on a certain time"11:24
Waitee":D"11:24
ggabrielthe only reason these bots exist is that people actually click those links11:24
Waiteeyeah11:25
M4rtinK2banning based on idleRPG score ? :)11:25
ggabrielwell, another reason could be that nobody goes and ddos's the hell out of those links11:25
ggabrielM4rtinK2: lol11:25
ggabrielyay idlerpg11:25
Sail0rbut it's advertised as secure cloud ^^11:25
ggabrieldefine secure11:25
Waiteethe weakest link in cmputer security is he human beign controlling the computer11:25
Sail0rand they advertise being more secure then dropbox11:26
ggabrielmy cloud is secured11:26
ggabrielby a front door with 2 locks11:26
Sail0rhehe11:26
ggabrieland a firewall11:26
ggabrielis that secure?11:26
ggabrieldo i need to get a dog?11:26
Sail0ryep11:26
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Sail0rtwo maybe11:26
Pnuuand a tiger11:26
ggabrielso, they'll eat the server and now it won't be reliable11:26
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M4rtinK2as long as as they can get the plaintext at any stage, it is not really secure11:30
ggabrielbut they promise they won't tell anybody11:30
Pnuuthe dogs and the tiger?11:31
ggabrielno, "they"11:31
M4rtinK2makes their infra setup easier and more efficient though (deduplication, etc.)11:31
Pnuuoh, Them11:31
ggabrieldogs and tiger are busy playing with the server11:31
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M4rtinK2yeah, they can promise what they want, like "we won't get raided" and "we won't get hacked"11:31
ggabrielnow i have to use g+ or something coz my cloud stopped working due to excessive saliva11:31
M4rtinK2but as long as they are not storing only encrypted blobs, it amounts to nothing11:32
ggabrieleven encrypted ,they'll have the key11:32
ggabrielso it's the same but with more computational requirements11:33
M4rtinK2exactly, that's the issue11:33
M4rtinK2well, not really11:33
ggabrielgranted it's a bit harder for hackers to break11:33
M4rtinK2you need to steal both the key & encrypted data11:33
mikmayou can report the spambot here https://www.voxility.com/info/contact/abuse11:33
M4rtinK2not just the data11:33
ggabrielmikma: looks like you are the best person here to report it ;-)11:34
M4rtinK2also, you need to trust them it is really encrypted :)11:34
ggabrielM4rtinK2: yup, the gov will have accesss tho11:34
mikmai'm pretty sure they wont react to my one report about it11:34
rigojust in case you did not notice yet, promises are not good enough :) https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/11:34
M4rtinK2still, there are advantages if they at least do encrypt it in storage11:35
M4rtinK2they are less likely loosing disks with your unencrypted data11:35
ggabrielyeah11:35
rigodon't even dare not encrypting, or I will recommend you as WhatsApp Devs11:35
ggabrielmikma: give me the email that you wrote and i'll send that, maybe with a few words swapped or something11:36
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rigois anybody working on WebRTC?11:37
M4rtinK2and even end-to-end encryption on public infra has issues11:37
M4rtinK2you can +- see data sizes being transferred, time when this is being done, etc11:37
ggabrielwell, yeah, but that's ok for photos of your cat11:38
ggabrielacceptable risk11:38
M4rtinK2yeah11:38
rigoM4rtinK2: but this is exactly the point: Because we said "not good enough" too often and then did unencrypted transfer instead, we have the pervasive monitoring disaster11:39
ggabrielspeaking of this, i have to make 2 more identities for this popular social network ;-)11:39
rigoencrypt wherever you can, opportunistic11:39
M4rtinK2yeah, exactly11:39
M4rtinK2why make it any easier than needed for anyone wanting your data11:40
rigoyou can't win against a targetted attack from the spooks. But if we all encrypt, they can do only so much :)11:40
M4rtinK2still in this case (online personal data storage), it is much easier than regular message encryption11:40
M4rtinK2as you are the only one who needs the key11:40
rigouse symmetric encryption, it is lightning fast. I think even the idea patent has expired...11:41
M4rtinK2and don't have the issues with securely transferring the key to the other party or assuring public key integrity11:41
rigoyep11:41
rigoyou could even use the same key for transfer and storage, provided that you have one key per user11:42
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mikmaggabriel: http://pastebin.com/EWCWLzqC -> i mailed that to abuse@voxility.com and support@freenode.net11:45
ggabrielmikma: ta11:46
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ggabrieldone11:47
mikmamost of the ip's are hosted by voxility, but some of them are unknown :I11:49
ggabrielso if that hosting company goes down, all is well, right? :D11:57
mikmasuuuuure, i guess ;)11:57
mikmawe here at #jollamobiles demand you to shut down your company!11:58
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mikmai'm so sorry. https://together.jolla.com/question/29714/idea-team-up-with-yet-another-finish-company-iitala/12:03
mikmabut that's just..12:03
ggabriellol12:04
ggabrielsome people may get it tho12:04
ggabrielhow many ppl got the iphone 4(s)? :P12:04
Nicd-finnish* iittala* :|12:04
mikma"i'll just carefully ply this TOH off from the corner..." SNAP!12:04
mikmaaaaaaaand now you are bleeding from your wrist. emo.12:05
mikmanicd-: what about itella covers? you could MAIL them!12:05
mikmaor have it display your emails!12:06
Stskeepsa TOH that automatically changes the destination of the phone in the mail system and travels around finland12:06
mikmaand you could track it12:06
Stskeepsjust imagine the havoc it would have on the itella systems if a letter changed barcode..12:06
mikmahaha12:07
ShadowJKNot much12:07
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ShadowJKThough you could keep it moving around in itella indefinitely12:07
mikmagood thing the jollaboys fixed the tohd battery leech then12:08
mikmawould have been a short trip otherwise12:08
mikmastskeeps: actually. Marimekko TOH covers would attract women customers12:10
ShadowJKAnd risk of plagiarism lawsuits12:12
Yanielyep12:12
mikmanot with the unikko pattern12:12
arkkipiiskanah, Marimekko is not too interested in this fuzz about plagiarism ;)12:12
Yanielsuing marimekko for plagiarism seems to be almost a sport these days12:12
Stskeepsi just want a jolla plane..12:12
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mikmastskeeps: you really don't want a jolla plane with 1.0.3.8 in cockpit12:13
ShadowJKlol12:13
mikma"hey, lets try landscape mode"12:13
ShadowJKthe human forgets to tap on the screen, phone goes to sleep, autopilot stops running12:14
rigoif you want to partner, go get Jon Tetzchner. Because you need a browser. He knows how to build a browser and he is not with opera anymore12:14
rigothis will probably also solve the landscape mode :)12:15
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ShadowJKnew landscape mode irritates me that sometimes in landscape swipe from loudspeaker is close, sometimes cover12:16
mikmashadowjk: i'd love to see the connection problem and ui crashing in jolla plane also12:16
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ShadowJK*engines spool down* "Connection Problem" *engines spool up* "Connected" *Connection problem" *engines spool down*12:18
zbenjaminanyone else missing contact details on his jolla phone? It seems to happen if a google account has no valid login informations. The contacts are still there but empty or details missing12:18
zbenjaminsadly after adding valid login informations the contacts are not restored12:18
zbenjaminand the details are still ok on the google servers12:19
mikmazbenjamin: you are syncing the contacts from google? right?12:19
zbenjaminmikma: yep12:19
mikmazbenjamin: did you have the contacts also synced in some android device?12:19
zbenjaminmikma: not since i started to use my jolla12:19
ShadowJKAndroid airplane: "hey, how do I release my seatbelt?", "Google and NSA have rerouted this aircraft, please sit back and relax to the soothing music of britney spears"12:20
mikmazbenjamin: well have you cleared the contacts from any android device lately? :P meaning, are the contacts still present at google?12:20
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zbenjaminmikma: yes the contacts are still on the server, i did not change any of them12:20
zbenjaminmikma: when i login to google and check the contacts the details are still there12:21
mikmazbenjamin: mm ok. then it's not what i experienced12:21
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zbenjaminin fact i have no phone numbers at all on the phone anymore oO12:22
mikmahttps://together.jolla.com/question/29572/bug-jolla-lost-all-phone-numbers/12:22
mikmais this yours?12:22
zbenjaminah sounds like mine12:22
mikmahttps://together.jolla.com/question/29572/bug-jolla-lost-all-phone-numbers/?answer=29688#post-id-2968812:23
ggabrielwoohoo i have a tjc badge12:24
ggabrielhaven't had one of those in weeks12:24
mikmaggabriel: i also got one more badge yesterday! "Editor" :D12:24
ggabrielwoohoo12:24
zbenjaminmikma: does not help, i relogged in also12:24
mikmazbenjamin: have you tried deleting the whole account and readding it back?12:24
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* zbenjamin trieś12:26
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zbenjaminmikma: nope12:27
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mikmazbenjamin: interesting problem12:28
zbenjaminmikma: seems i have to delete my contacts database, which is nasty12:28
* zbenjamin does not like12:29
mikmazbenjamin: this might also be a perfect time to backup the contacts from google12:29
zbenjamini'm just glad there is no 2 way sync i would maybe have lost all my contacts12:29
zbenjaminmy thought12:30
M4rtinK2rsync of doom :)12:30
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mikmazbenjamin: https://together.jolla.com/question/29512/bug-jolla-looses-contact-data-when-g-logs-out-with-no-easy-way-to-know-about-it-and-no-ability-to-force-resync/12:31
zbenjaminmikma: yeah related definately12:33
mikmathat "bug" sounds really bad12:33
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zbenjaminit is :/, i want ownclowd sync so i can remove that stuff from the google servers12:34
mikmai'm really thinking about reseting factory settings back and upgrading to 1.0.2.512:34
ggabrieli'll wait a week or two :D12:34
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ggabrieli need to reimport all my contacts from the n9 too12:34
* zbenjamin is going to delete contacts dabase12:35
mikmazbenjamin: don't like the idea of nsa reading your contacts?12:35
zbenjaminmikma: lol as if it would prevent them from doing so when i store them on my own server12:35
mikmahah, true12:35
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zbenjaminmikma: i just don't like to be dependent on a company when i can have my own server :)12:36
zbenjaminmikma: and my owncloud is running anyway12:36
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mikmazbenjamin: my friend is actually doing the same thing. he's got a own server where he keeps his contacts sync'd12:36
mikmazbenjamin: but that was for nokia n9, don't know about his galaxy s4 mini now12:37
zbenjaminmikma: yeah i wonder why there is no caldav carddav sync for jolla, it should be first choice imho. Almost any sync service can do this12:37
Sail0rStskeeps: are you already in barcelona?12:39
Stskeepsno, tomorrow12:39
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Stskeepsi arrive at shit-o-clock12:39
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Stskeepsin the evening12:39
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mikmaremember to take your spf50 with you12:40
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zbenjaminand now it crashed on me when opening a contact. Completely like i turned it off .... wtf? never happened before12:43
Stskeepspull battery for 10 minutes12:43
Stskeepshow's the new job btw?12:43
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zbenjaminStskeeps: mine?12:49
zbenjaminStskeeps: its good! I have fun :)12:49
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zbenjaminStskeeps: btw is there any way i can clean up only the contacts from google so they are resynced?12:51
zbenjamininteresting when i remove all my accounts i still have contacts left on the phone, even though i have almost no local contacts12:54
ggabrielzbenjamin: you're almost convicing me to never ever use anything that google makes12:54
ggabrielnot even by mistake12:54
zbenjaminggabriel: even the facebook contacts are not deleted when i remove my facebook account12:55
zbenjaminsomething is wrong with my contacts db12:55
ggabrielif you have almost none contacts, just nuke it12:55
ggabrieltry first from settings tho12:55
zbenjaminyeah12:55
zbenjaminmy current plan :)12:56
ggabriels/none/no/12:56
ggabrieli'll do that in a day or two12:56
zbenjaminggabriel: still that should not happen12:56
ggabrielto reimport again my n9's12:56
ggabrielno, probably a bug12:56
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zbenjaminaaaaaaaaaaa they are still there !12:56
zbenjaminwTF12:56
zbenjaminhow can this be?12:57
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zbenjaminggabriel: how can i completely nuke contacts without breaking anything?13:09
Sail0rmove the contacts db away13:10
Sail0rit's described on tjc13:10
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Sail0rhttps://together.jolla.com/question/10161/fixed-in-1038-how-to-delete-manyall-contacts-from-people-app/13:10
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Sail0rsecond answer13:10
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zbenjaminSail0r: there is lots of stuff in the Contacts folder, what would happen if i move that one away?13:19
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zbenjaminmikma: ok this is really bad, even after removing the db and completely recreating the google login i have NO phone numbers13:31
zbenjaminmikma: i'll wait some more seconds maybe it takes some time13:31
ggabrielreboot in between?13:33
ggabrieli.e., delete db, reboot13:33
zbenjaminggabriel: yes13:33
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zbenjaminggabriel: i even moved the complete Contacts folder away, not only the db because there was so much data left in there13:34
mikmazbenjamin: did you pull the battery?13:34
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zbenjaminno, why should pulling the battery change that?13:34
Stskeeps[13:43] <zbenjamin> and now it crashed on me when opening a contact. Completely like i turned it off .... wtf? never happened before13:35
Stskeepsif the device turned off completely, that is13:35
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zbenjaminok turned off , removed battery now booting13:37
zbenjaminStskeeps: but a reboot from the console should be safe too ? i mean it reboots the OS13:38
Stskeepsno, powering off is only real shutdown13:38
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zbenjamini see, but contacts still have no phone details13:39
zbenjaminmaybe google changed fields in the sync ?13:39
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zbenjamini'm pretty sure i also don'T get all contacts ...13:40
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Anz_should I enable sync in accounts settings for emails to be fetched automatically? i have already set 5 minutes update interval in email app settings13:44
Venemohttps://together.jolla.com/question/29731/bug-tracker-forgets-contents-on-sd-card/13:45
Venemohttps://together.jolla.com/question/29732/bug-remorse-action-in-calendar-app/13:45
Venemomy newest findings :)13:45
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zbenjaminhmpf now i try to sync with outlook.com , hopefully ms exchange will work better14:15
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alePnuu: aha, probably not, not sure where the detector pin is though15:03
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tango_ar: I would prefer the layout that leaves the camera functional while closed, but I don't like the arrows up left22:13
tango_bottom right would seem more natural to me22:14
VenemoStskeeps: ping22:14
VenemoStskeeps: I get this when I plug the jolla in: http://pastebin.com/kL5LHGVt22:15
VenemoStskeeps: the scary part is: Feb 22 23:12:24 Timur-Zenbook mtp-probe: bus: 2, device: 19 was not an MTP device22:15
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Sail0rVenemo: fedora 20?22:20
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VenemoSail0r: yep22:21
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Sail0rit's very interesting22:21
Sail0rI have one Fedora 20 box where Jolla works out of the box22:21
Sail0rand another where it does not work22:21
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VenemoSail0r: eh22:22
Sail0ron both I have not installed anything for mpt22:22
Sail0r*mtp22:22
Venemogvfs-mtp and libmtp are installed by default; at least I didn't install anything for them22:22
Sail0ron my desktop I plug the Jolla in it appears in file manager is browsable, copy works everything works22:22
Sail0ron the other nothing works22:22
Venemohm22:24
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ari've heard that the keyboard layouts used in Jolla are qml files. where can i find them? i'm especially interested in the ones used by fingerterm22:24
Sail0rit does not hurt because the one where it not works is not used often ^^22:24
Sail0rbut it's interesting22:25
Venemoar: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91917 but I think fingerterm does something custom22:25
Sail0rhttps://together.jolla.com/question/18763/howto-fingerterm-german-layout/ @ar22:25
ari would love to be able to edit them and play around with the layouts before actually making something, so to say, physical22:25
Sail0rhttps://github.com/nemomobile/fingerterm/tree/master/data22:25
arthanks :)22:25
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arhm. the fingerterm layout definition seems to be somewhat "Read the source, Luke"22:34
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M4rtinKI guess that's not even Maliit22:35
phdeswerNope fingerterm has it's own22:35
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Venemoar: fingerterm is like that, yeah22:56
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arhmm. it doesn't automatically handle the fact, that i define more than 11 keys per column23:17
arbut judging by https://github.com/nemomobile/fingerterm/blob/master/keyloader.cpp#L90 it should do that23:20
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arany ideas?23:21
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arerm, that's not the line for it23:25
arhm23:25
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CvPhi23:53
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