#jollamobile log for Friday, 2014-09-19

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Shihua_when will come this update?01:48
h4PPYC4TShihua_: https://together.jolla.com/question/55909/official-annoucement-uitukka-is-just-around-the-corner-hold-on/ - so...when it's done ;)01:51
Shihua_i am learning c but variable have many types.Imust remember this.Or i just know?01:52
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Shihua_The TJC I gone.just a few of people are here.01:54
Shihua_Nobody reply to me.01:54
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Stskeepsmorn TMavica02:32
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StskeepsTMavica: sure is sunny in HK today02:36
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TMavicaLOL03:04
TMavicayes03:04
TMavicau should in midnight03:06
Stskeepsnop, im here03:08
Stskeepsneed to figure out what i do saturday and sunday03:09
StskeepsTMavica: was here when cyclone hit too03:12
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TMavicano, just side go through03:26
TMavicano landing03:26
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gexcanother update friday? lol06:21
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okutbr: Fixed the terminal cursor problem. Didn't find the reason though. I made a full reset which fixed that among few other problems.06:55
tbrhmkay06:55
tbrprolly something in the terminal settings06:56
okuit's a hell of a job to do a full reset :/06:56
okuthat's what i suggested, but i tried removing terminal settings and letting it recreate them06:56
tbrmkay06:57
okuat least it works now and my terminal is usable. probably it was just a glitch in my conf or something :/06:57
tbrglitch in the matrix, mmmm06:58
* tbr dispatches some agents to fix that06:58
oku:D06:58
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okuthe weird part was that i had to do two full resets before all problems were gone07:00
okui thought the full reset would overwrite everything07:00
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okuand i almost couldn't log in to jolla account with my phone, so it almost got me stuck with old os version with no apps07:01
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tbrif reset puts you on 1.0 then there are some dangerous bits that you shouldn't do07:02
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tbrbasically you should update immediately07:02
okuyeah, i did almost that the first time, but with next reset i just did the updates07:03
okuactually i only enabled dev mode just to see if my terminal was fixed and then update07:03
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okuthat shouldn't break anything07:04
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okucoderus: mitakuuluu chat mute doesn't work at least on group chat07:14
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okualso "load older messages" option is missing on the chat window07:15
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coderusoku: its not displayed in case of no more messages to load :)08:05
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pvanhoofahoy sailors08:06
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okucoderus: ok, that's nice. but still the mute doesn't work :/09:23
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Sail0rproblems with reboots started again after 2 months and a new jolla -.-13:14
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Sail0rhttps://i.4cdn.org/g/1411120357270.png15:16
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Nicd-yeah breaking people's shit is really fun15:19
Morpog_PCwell, you need to be pretty dumb actually15:19
Sail0rI find it very interesting how people rely on social media15:20
Sail0rThey believe everything which shows in their twitter/facebook feed15:20
Sail0ri don't think it funny when people break things but it's very interesting phenomen15:20
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r0kk3rzyeah its odd how people take more notice of text if its embedded in an image of some kind15:37
Sail0rjop15:38
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SK_workr0kk3rz: presented with fancyg raphics like Apple ads15:39
r0kk3rzi was more referring to the inspirational quote pictures and other similar type memes15:40
r0kk3rzbut yes, in this case a bit of style went a long way15:40
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merlin1991okay a question for the masses, what do you do when xmpp/jabber doesn't want to go online on your jolla?16:30
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tbrdon't know what the unwashed masses do, but I usually manage to get online by cycling in the online status page16:34
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tbrif not I'd whip out mc-tool and dig in16:34
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chem|stmerlin1991: reset the account17:20
merlin1991meaning what exactly?17:21
chem|stspecial: you have been exposed^^17:21
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chem|stmerlin1991: disable it17:21
chem|stmerlin1991: might need to be deleted and setup again, some of the accounts didn't workout that well and I needed to have all off them disabled - services all restarted and enabled again17:22
chem|sttwitter did not want to turn off and jabber did not want to connect17:23
chem|stI did not delete the accounts17:23
merlin1991okay, lets try17:23
merlin1991I really do wonder though why it happens17:23
chem|styou need to have a working internet connection for some reason17:24
merlin1991it's there and up17:24
merlin1991but disable / enable didn't help17:24
chem|stthat would be to easy17:25
merlin1991usually a reboot fixes this problem, but I somehow want to go and debug it17:25
chem|stdisable, reboot, enable after having connection again17:25
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chem|stah ok I was stuck at a point where reboots did not help it17:26
merlin1991tbr: any docs on the account system, and how to get logs / debug info out of it?17:26
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tbrmerlin1991: accounts-sso or telepathy?17:28
merlin1991whichever glues onlinestatus to the ui17:28
merlin1991but I'm guessing that's the telepathy side17:28
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merlin1991and a reboot did fix the jabber connenction ...17:29
merlin1991next time I have the issue I'll dig in17:29
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merlin1991hm wtf after going offline once and trying to go back online it doesn't do so anymore ...17:31
merlin1991facebook happily goes online though17:33
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tbrmerlin1991: in my experience it takes some time for XMPP connections to come up etc17:33
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merlin1991hm I'm looking at it since you wrote that message ...17:35
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tbryou can always ssh in and dig in with mc-tool17:37
tbrif that fails, you can kill telepathy-gabble and start it manually with debug outpu17:38
merlin1991hm "mc-tool show gabble/jabber/jabber_9" gives me Current: available (2) "" under Presences17:40
merlin1991but the ui claims I'm offline17:40
tbrah, then you are likely online and the UI is lying again17:40
tbrcheck in the people app if you see people online17:41
merlin1991yeah I just checked that17:41
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merlin1991i see people online17:41
merlin1991now why on earth is the ui lying?17:41
merlin1991but I guess that part is closed so I can't dig into it?17:42
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tbrI think that's essentially part of the home screen, which means you start kicking and screaming on IRC, TJC, randomly poking people like Aard that it's broken etc.17:43
tbrthey will just tell you it's a known bug and might be fixed at some point17:44
tbrat least I firmly remember there being a bug at least for cases of "two accounts on the same server" or even "two XMPP accounts", not sure if that also applies to one account17:45
merlin1991hm I have facebook and 1 xmpp account17:45
tbrif by fakebook you mean their messenger, that's also XMPP IIRC17:45
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merlin1991true the accounts both start with gabbble/jabber/...17:46
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merlin1991bah the qml for the per account status view (/usr/share/lipstick-jolla-home-qt5/qml/PresenceDetails.qml) is great : some imports and then PresenceDetailsPage {}17:53
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coderusPublished Mitakuuluu v0.8.8-4 bugfix update. Please update and report bugs as soon as possible.17:59
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chem|sttbr: another neat bug... just like android leaving the volumerocker active at all times^^18:14
tbrandroid is aliendaliv though and 3rd party foo18:15
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intehello18:20
integot my metawatcj18:20
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intewhich app do i use to connect ?18:21
Sail0rwhat's the difference between pebble and metawatch?18:22
merlin1991protocol company size ...18:23
Sail0rI don't know any metawatch app for Jolla18:23
Sail0rI have never heard of metawtach before ^^18:23
merlin1991metawatch is also older iirc18:23
Sail0rk18:24
Sail0rand featureset?18:24
Sail0rok it looks like pebble has much more features http://smartwatches.findthebest.com/compare/1-7/Pebble-Pebble-vs-Meta-Watch-Ltd-MetaWatch-STRATA18:24
tbrSail0r: there is one in the making18:25
Sail0rtbr: ah ok18:25
* tbr is very happy with his metawatch18:25
tbrhardware is quite similar18:25
merlin1991tbr which one do you have?18:26
tbrthe watch case is much more stylish and reliable on the Metawatch FRAME18:26
tbrI have a FRAME and the early analogue metawatch18:26
merlin1991I have the first generation digital one18:26
tbrmhm, you'd need to add SPP support to Salmeta for that18:27
Sail0rI like my pebble steel and the pebble daemon for sailfish. But the metawatch looks nice18:27
tbrcurrently it only supports BLE18:27
tbrthe steel seems to come close to a decent watch case18:27
Sail0rI really like my black one it looks good even on my small wrist18:28
merlin1991hm I'd need to add support for the super old protocol aswell18:28
merlin1991since I can't flash any firmware since the ble models18:28
tbrsome of it might still be the same, but yeah18:28
merlin1991btw where does salmeta live, github gitorious your harddisk?18:29
tbrgitorious18:29
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tbrI suspect restricting protocol to the v1 features would be fairly easy18:30
merlin1991I did have the idea to port over the super old version of sowatch that supports the watch but it's probably better to add protocol support to a newer framework18:30
tbrsalmeta is AFAICT a reimplementation of sowatch18:30
merlin1991yep just fount it, all hail javispredo :)18:31
tbrindeed18:31
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merlin1991I wonder how far it is regarding system notifications / calls and such18:31
tbrworking, initial stage18:32
tbrno formatting or anything yet, but it shows up on the phone18:32
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tbrno special watchface features yet18:32
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merlin1991hm metawatch is getting seriously expensive18:39
merlin1991the new black leather model if 300$18:39
inteso i should install salmeta?18:42
intemerlin1991 the current model is 79€ including shipping at metawatch.de!18:45
merlin1991inte: http://www.metawatch.de/ gives me a 40418:46
inteups18:46
intewell the official german page18:46
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intehttp://www.metawatch.eu/de/collection18:48
inte.eu sorry18:49
merlin1991ah well I'm talking about the M1 upcoming model18:49
merlin1991that starts at 249€18:49
intethats the old price for the frame18:49
intesame price, new modell18:49
merlin1991silly how it is also 249$ in the us18:49
merlin1991makes no sense!18:50
inteso which software should i use?18:50
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intewhatever18:50
merlin1991salmeta is the only thingn known to this channel that works18:50
merlin1991no idea where to get a build though18:51
intepebbled is pebble-only?18:52
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intetbr which app are you using?18:54
tbrI've built salmeta and libgato from source18:54
inteoh ok18:54
intewhy dont you upload it to openrepos?18:55
inte:)18:55
tbrearly adopter on this type of stuff18:55
tbrif you're trying to insult me, you're doing well18:55
intecan you send me the rpms?18:55
merlin1991tbr not everyone knows about chum ;)18:56
tbrmerlin1991: it's not about chum in that context18:56
tbrmy utmost distaste for the concept of OR is coincidental18:57
intehehe18:58
tbrit's an organized version of swapping around random binaries18:58
intewhat is so wrong with or?18:58
merlin1991hm can't get to the webinterface of the obs, did I miss some scheduled downtime?18:58
tbrmerlin1991: https://build.merproject.org/ WFM18:59
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merlin1991I blame Increased sunspot activity.19:00
tbrelectron spin needs recalibration19:02
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tbrinte: I can upload RPMs later if you are interested, they are built from git sources, but same as OR you'd have to believe my word that they don't blow up your phone.19:12
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intecurrently trying to build them myself...19:16
louisdkIf I do a backup on my Jolla phone and safe it, then reset my phone and restore the backup witch settings will then be lost? Ambiances and installed apps? What more?19:17
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kimmolitbr let a=0x`echo -n "$(dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1 count=1)" | xxd -ps` && dd if=/dev/urandom of=randombinary count=$a && chmod 755 randombinary && ./randombinary19:23
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tbrkimmoli: still tempted to put a couple russian roulette apps on OR. "ya feeling lucky, punk?"19:24
kimmolireminds me of ninja19:24
intetbr: that would be amazing!19:29
tbrto randomly corrupt your firmware?19:29
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kimmolireminds me of ninja19:33
kimmoliäh19:33
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phdeswerlouisdk: backup only backs up what is mentioned in the backup menu. So if you want your pics etc you need to save them separately19:50
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BasilSemuonov_tbr, stop treating and be a man, upload!20:03
BasilSemuonov_*threatening20:04
tbrBasilSemuonov_: meh, I'm not that childish20:05
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tbrBasilSemuonov_: as a thought experiment it serves well to make a point though. RPMs have root.20:06
BasilSemuonov_add process isolation, and there will be no problems20:08
Nicd-it's funny that people laugh at iphone users but are willing to install anything from openrepos on their jolla... :P20:08
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Sail0rthese are the same people who give their CC numbers to a speaking elk (simpsons) ;)20:09
tbrX solves everything, news at 11. I'll believe it when I see it.20:10
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tbrmind you, everyone is free to use OR. they should just be aware of the possible consequences.20:12
tbrsame as people are free to install 3rd party app stores on android20:12
Sail0ror jailbreak their iphone20:13
Sail0rbut as long as there are more useful apps on openrepos then in store because of restrictions more people will use OR and more phones will break :x20:14
r0kk3rzyeah well, smart people make it easy for not so smart people to do things they dont understand20:14
Sail0rit's a vicious cycle20:14
BasilSemuonov_what whole story exists because there is not rom bootloader in jolla, so you can corrupt partitions. just add cgroup and block direct access to block devices, thats all you need20:15
BasilSemuonov_what=that20:15
BasilSemuonov_*that whole story exists because there is no rom bootloader in jolla, so you can corrupt partitions. just add cgroup and block direct access to block devices, thats all you need20:16
Sail0ryeah, that's another problem. If we just could say .. ok f***ed my jolla *happens* I reflash it20:17
BasilSemuonov_Sail0r, if you cannot harm device directly, you can always revert with btrfs. i'm waiting for Stskeeps to get back from hk, and warehouse will add some 'safety' to package management process.20:20
Sail0r:)20:21
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h4PPYC4Ttbr: well, there is a huge disclaimer if one enables/allows the installation of "untrusted software".20:26
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tbrh4PPYC4T: and people are goal oriented sheep that will click through everything blindly20:27
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h4PPYC4Ttbr: if ppl can't/want to read important disclaimer then it's their own fault, imho. either one wants freedom or security. it's always a tradeoff. ;)20:28
tbrh4PPYC4T: do you also hand out guns to children who don't understand them but tell them not to shoot themselves in the head?20:29
h4PPYC4T^^ well, we are not talking about children.20:29
tbryes, we are talking about technology illiterate people. It's beside the point, but there are plenty of minors using the jolla.20:31
Sail0rwhich is intended by jolla I think ;)20:32
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Sail0rwell, I really hope Jolla gets the things done right in the next months20:33
tbrI very much doubt that20:34
Sail0rbecause the new markets will raise the demand for basic smartphone features20:34
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Sail0rtbr: :-/ same here20:35
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h4PPYC4Twhich is cool and good. but one can't offer an open system/freedom on one side with granting total security on the other side. if ppl - minor or not - aren't reading disclaimers or aren't aware of the consequencies of their actions, then it's not the fault of the system in the first way.20:35
Sail0rI really love my Jolla but the longer I am using it the more I miss things or hate it for some bugs it has20:36
Sail0rlike the horrible reboot bug20:36
Sail0ror shutdown to blackscreen whichever comes first20:36
tbrit's not a bug, that's pretty sure20:36
tbrit's a hardware issue20:37
Sail0rhardware failure?20:37
BasilSemuonov_tbr, application that zeroes your /dev/mmcblk0 is a malware or not? And if it intended to do so? example: prior to shipping your device to care, you want to wipe all your private security data from the phone, so it cannot be restored?20:37
Sail0rI received a new Jolla after mine broke horrible (vibration stuck, blackscreen all the time and another thing which i forgot)20:37
Sail0rand everything run fine until this week ... and the blackscreens and reboots started again20:37
Sail0rit's 1 1/2 months since receiving the new one20:38
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tbrBasilSemuonov_: there should be no need for the average user to access block devices. the device has a factory reset feature20:38
tbrSail0r: tried cleaning the contacts yet?20:39
Sail0roO20:39
Sail0rwhat to the contacts have to do with the crashes?20:39
r0kk3rzwhen its the battery20:39
r0kk3rzsurprisingly a lot20:39
Sail0rhm20:39
tbryes20:39
Sail0rTried that on the old one which had no effect20:40
tbrand it needs to be done carefully and with the right tools20:40
Sail0rand on the new one they look pretty good20:40
tbrjust putting your greasy fingers on those will make it worse20:40
Sail0ra bit sandpaper maybe?20:40
Sail0rI wonder why these issue start suddenly20:41
tbrSail0r: the suspicion is a thin oxide layer buildup, for yet unknown reasons20:41
Sail0ris it really corrosion from having it in the pocket all the day?20:42
tbrcertainly a possibility20:42
BasilSemuonov_tbr, make factory reset, send me dd partition, and I send you all your private staff back to you. If there is no need to average users - add security: default cgroup rules.20:42
Sail0rmaybe the same thing which happend on the LG smartwatch20:42
Sail0relectricty paired with the wet env of a pocket20:42
Sail0rmaybe it's copper rust20:43
tbrBasilSemuonov_: I do know  that restoring to facotry defaults doesn't zero the data. Though I am not familiar with the exact process employed by the phone.20:43
tbrBasilSemuonov_: still there is no need to deliberately break the device in such a way where even care won't be able to recover it by flashing20:44
BasilSemuonov_tbr, contacts/messages loss is a huge problem?20:45
BasilSemuonov_tbr, that can be done by any application from harbour and openrepos. you either protect and jail everything, or nothing.20:46
tbrBasilSemuonov_: you said you want to dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0 - that will terminally destroy your device with no chance for reflash by care20:46
Sail0rwhat's stored in mmcblk0?20:47
tbrSail0r: that's the _whole_ emmc, including "special" data and firmware20:47
Sail0roh20:47
BasilSemuonov_tbr, that is hardware/design phone fail, since there is no rom loader20:47
Sail0rso no fastboot afterwards?20:47
tbrBasilSemuonov_: same on pretty much every android device, that's also design fail?20:48
BasilSemuonov_tbr, dont you say, they emmc 'manufactured' with some special jolla data, that data flashed there, and can be reflashed20:48
BasilSemuonov_tbr, yes20:48
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meow_tbr: I agree with BasilSemuonov_, it's an hardware design fail... same for the android devices20:49
tbrmeow_: I disagree, the user should not be root nor should they write to block devices.20:49
meow_tbr: the openmoko freerunner had an unbrickable bootloader that is stored on a separate chip, not on the nand where the operating system resides20:49
tbrgood luck, adds enough to the bom to make it a non starter20:50
BasilSemuonov_tbr, if user should not be root, why there is option for 3rd party side-loading? just make another ios, thats it.20:50
tbrBasilSemuonov_: because there are tinkerers and developers, who this feature caters to. it is clearly NOT for users.20:51
tbrmisappropriating it as such, especially by open repos is dangerous20:51
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BasilSemuonov_for tinkerers and developers, there is flashing guide with usb connection to the phone.20:52
BasilSemuonov_as you said: give gun to a baby, and say - dont shoot from it.20:53
h4PPYC4Ttbr: so what is your solution for it? :) if disclaimers aren't enough, i don't know. i bought my jolla exactly because it's open and not locked.20:53
Sail0rbut tbr if it's a hardware issue why does Jolla not announce as it?20:53
tbrh4PPYC4T: you understand the risks and that you don't have a warranty if you screw it up. so there is no problem, is there?20:54
h4PPYC4Tyep. no problem. it's a good trade-off for me. :)20:55
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tbrSail0r: who knows, we don't know for sure, we don't know if jolla knows for sure, we don't know who, if is responsible for it, might be their ODM or someone else.20:55
tbryou quickly arrive at an interesting corporate blame game20:56
Sail0rthe problem is it really pisses people off20:56
Sail0rIf i can't trust my phone that it is on when I need it I am a bit pissed when it happens more often then my android has done that ;)20:57
tbrSail0r: sure, and you probably noticed the standard answer you get. "contact care", I bet it's for a reason.20:57
Sail0ryeah, but for me changing the whole device only fixed it for a couple of months20:57
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Sail0ras I said I really like my Jolla but there are things which annoy me20:58
r0kk3rzi do wonder whether they have an updated SKU in the works20:59
tbrwell, again you have two choices, take it back to care and eventually give up and return for a refund21:00
tbror on the other hand try cleaning the contact surfaces carefully and live happy ever after21:00
tbreven kimmoli's teenage daughter managed ;)21:00
r0kk3rzmaybe its not really worth it with phones because they only have such a short life21:00
tbrto summarize: situation is annoying, there is an sub-optimal official way and a community workaround that helps most people.21:01
Sail0rtbr: i will try the last ;)21:02
inteSail0r what charger are you using?21:02
Sail0rn900 charger21:02
Sail0rand sometimes jolla charger (at office)21:02
tbrSail0r: try something like a blue side of a red/blue eraser, or gently go over the surface with a flat screw driver21:02
intei had this switching-off issue when i was using a 2a charger21:02
tbrdon't touch with your fingers21:03
Sail0rok will try it tbr21:03
tbras finger grease is bad21:03
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Sail0rlike always ;)21:03
Sail0rit's like the people who upgrade their ram and always touch the contacts21:03
intesince i reverter to the genuine jolla charger *only* it disappeared after a few cycles21:03
Sail0rwell, in the last time I often used usb developer mode21:04
intecould of course be coincidence21:04
Sail0rmaybe it's because of the issue I had once before the short charging cycles21:04
tbrwhat might often help already is to reseat the battery a couple of times21:04
Sail0rtoday I discharged it to 10% took out the battery for an hour21:04
tbrso that the contacts rub against each other21:04
Sail0rand now charging it to 100% without turning on21:04
Sail0rbut I will try cleaning the contacts :)21:05
intesail0r how much ampere does the n900 charger has,21:06
intesame as jolla?21:06
inteor more21:06
tbrold nokia usb chargers were around 900mA IIRC21:06
Sail0r1,2 A21:07
Sail0rNokia AC-10 MicroUSB Charger21:07
Sail0raccording to the ms site about n900 ;)21:07
Sail0rit's really weird to go to ms.com to check n900 specs ^^ https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/mobile/phone/n900/specifications/21:07
inteso its more21:07
r0kk3rzwell, by 200ma21:08
intei suggest trying the 1a charger only for some time21:08
Sail0rok so jolla charger only21:08
intemaybe the higher ampere confuses the logic21:09
Sail0rlike short charging cycles21:09
intei don't know21:09
Sail0rthis really confuses the logic21:09
r0kk3rzyou shouldnt do short cycles anyway, wears your battery21:10
integive it a try i have the impression it helped for me21:10
tbrinte: I can't be bothered to get up right now, but suspect the charging current will be identical21:10
tbras it's just the _max_ rating for the charger and the device decides about the current it draws21:10
Sail0rr0kk3rz: I know but sometimes I use the devmode with usb and only for a short time ;x21:11
r0kk3rzthat shouldnt be so bad21:11
intetbr its not evidence based jbut was my impression21:12
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intetbr: did you upload the metawatch rpms anywhere already?21:17
tbrlet me have a quick look21:18
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tbrinte: http://ruecker.fi/foss/sailfish/libgato-0.1.6-1.armv7hl.rpm http://ruecker.fi/foss/sailfish/salmeta-0.1.1-1.armv7hl.rpm - they are compiled recently from git checkouts of both repositories, no warranty if it even is in a working state21:25
integreat thanks21:26
tbrdon't distribute, them or advertize them please. the software is still in an early stage and it's up to javispedro to decide when he goes ahead with more public21:26
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inteyeah21:26
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intetbr works but how do i use it?21:37
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tbrinte: reset your BLE capable metawatch by holding the middle buttons, then make the jolla connect to it21:39
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tbrthis might come in handy (as nemo): systemctl --user restart salmeta.service21:40
intecool21:49
intethanks!!21:49
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intethere are not particular much functions yet right?21:53
inteonly two watchfaces?21:53
inteand,  time doesnt seem to be synced21:54
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intecan i install customized whatchfaces?21:58
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inteand what is that "replayscreen"?22:07
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tbrinte: time sync should happen22:16
tbrinte: no custom faces yet22:16
intethanks!22:17
intenow i also know what the replay scrern does:)22:18
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