#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2014-10-23

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samikshanUrgent help needed: My phone was stolen today morning. Is there anyway I can remotely wipe all data from my phone to prevent abuse?04:26
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Stskeepssamikshan: did you use a lock code?04:30
samikshanStskeeps: Yes. I did have a lock code.04:31
samikshanBut I suspect, the internal phone data can be accessed if connected to a laptop via USB.04:32
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Stskeepssamikshan: not really, unless you unlocked your bootloader05:34
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Stskeepssamikshan: we often to go a bar nearby jolla offices and in order not to have our data slip out, we made sure we can trust our device if lost :P05:34
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samikshanStskeeps: Oh okay. Thanks for the information.05:48
samikshan:)05:48
samikshanThat's comforting. But still really heartbroken having lost my brand new sweet Jolla phone. :(05:49
Stskeepscan imagine05:50
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Yanielwhat can youaccess from recovery mode?05:55
Yanielor does it ask for the security code when connecting, if set05:56
Stskeepsit'll ask05:56
Yanielokay05:56
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Nicd-update 9 is smooooooth06:10
Nicd-damn06:10
Nicd-also video playback on the android side was much improved \o/06:11
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tadzikso theoretically the only way would be to physically rip out the internal memory and connect to it manually "somehow"?06:11
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tadzikNicd-: it vibrates! :D06:11
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tadzikbest update since june06:11
Nicd-tadzik: I suppose so06:11
Stskeepstadzik: yeah but it's kinda in a pop package on top of the cpu isn't it06:11
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Stskeepsand mem06:11
Stskeepsat which point it just gets friggen annoying06:11
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tadzikright06:12
Nicd-that sort of thing would be infeasible for the common crook06:12
tadzikgood :)06:12
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Nicd-they'll just probably try to sell it online without the buyer seeing it. then hopefully the buyer will contact the police and maybe the phone will find its way back06:13
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freemangordonHi guys, recently me and jonwil are trying to reverse engineer the Nokia closed blobs in pulseaudio on N900. So far we have done pretty much good job (IMO), see https://gitorious.org/pulseaudio-nokia/pulseaudio-nokia/source/f7969f2f24b5779a6e2ef0ee8fdf111a9c720fea: .06:15
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freemangordonAnyway, there are a couple of modules which are hard to RE (though not impossible), like xprot armcc optimized functions, AEP, etc. , so, any help (like a couple of old files living on your HDD or debug symbols from some old builds or whatever like that) will be greatly appreciated as it will make our life way easier. If anyone is willing to help, please /query me or jonwil, we won't disclose anything in public.06:15
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Stskeepslong story short, when finishing old gigs it's pretty normal to wipe your hds.06:16
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tbryeah, the machines on my desk were still busy with dd if=/dev/zero of=$variousdevices when I walked out the office for the last time06:17
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freemangordonwas that ans answer to my question?06:18
Stskeepspretty much - the people who worked on it was subcontractors and they definately had to wipe their stuff before starting new projects06:18
freemangordonwell, it worths me nothing to try. after all rules are not strictly followed every time, etc06:20
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Stskeepsnod06:20
Stskeepsjust be careful not to taint others, ie, at least from my perspective i would want nothing to do with those bits :P06:20
freemangordondo you really think I want to have something in common with that can of worms? :p06:21
freemangordonBut there seems to be no option, if we want to have some progress, like upstream kernel or newer PA06:21
Stskeepsnod06:21
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freemangordonif you are curious, look at what we have so far. Trust me, I *don't* want to RE NEON by using gcc intrinsics.06:23
freemangordonor in any other form06:23
jonwilWe also need it if we want a cellular modem that isn't the same as the Nokia N90006:24
freemangordonthat one too06:24
Stskeepsalso as a general note from any projects i've been involved with.. armcc usually means some idiot on the other side of the world provides .o's for you06:24
Stskeepsie, no source06:24
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freemangordon:nod:06:25
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freemangordonthough even the debug symbols will be of great help06:25
Stskeepseven without those06:25
Stskeepsjonwil: nowadays those bits kinda come within the modems themselves06:26
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Stskeepsie we don't have xprot and such on jolla06:26
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freemangordonyep, but cmtspeech is statically linked in the voice module06:27
freemangordonon n90006:27
Stskeepsyeah..06:27
Stskeeps11 november 2009.. heh, such a long time ago06:28
Stskeepsthat device was awesome06:28
freemangordonwhich one?06:28
Stskeepsn90006:28
freemangordonwas?06:28
Stskeepsokay, is :P06:28
Stskeepsbut compared to what i'd have to use it for today, it has issues06:28
freemangordonmy still works fine06:28
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Sail0rit's too slow for nowadays websites :-/06:29
jonwilMy N900 works great although it crashes microb anytime I try to use it for long www.whirlpool.net.au :(06:30
freemangordonit is because gecko is pretty much ancient on it06:30
freemangordonnot that the HW is not capable. sure it is not 4 cores and 2 gigs06:30
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Stskeepsi liked n900 because it was well, productivity while mobile06:31
jonwilUpdating gecko would be great, not sure how it could be done without breaking the things that are reliant on its plugin API06:31
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Stskeepsdid you know jolla's chief designer was behind the n900 ui too?06:31
freemangordonAnd that is why we want maemo on newer devices. Which can't be achieved without having whatever possible open. In some shape06:31
freemangordonno, I was not aware06:32
jonwilMy work on MCE was only the first step to making this device open, the PulseAudio work is the next step06:32
Stskeeps"Martin Schüle is the Principal Designer of Maemo5 User Interface. He is a creative lead with more than 10 years of experience in multidisciplinary design like user interface design, interaction design, industrial design, graphical design and exhibition design; from target settings up to final deliverables. Prior to joining Nokia in 2003 Martin worked in Design agencies in Germany as well as in Finland. During his career Martin received ...06:32
freemangordontoo bad jollaphone doesn't have much in common with n900, at least from what I know06:32
Stskeeps... several Design Awards, as well as Nokia internal awards and has been number one User Interface inventor in Nokia Devices based on the patent filings during the 1st half 2009. Martin holds a degree in Industrial Design"06:32
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Stskeepswell, it's a different ui for sure06:33
Stskeepsbut in terms of productivity, well, besides the lack of landscape, it is a device that i very quickly interact on and then put away, ie a lot of microinteractions06:33
Stskeepssms come in, doubletap, check events view, walk away..06:34
Stskeepsso in that regard it makes me more productive06:34
freemangordonmy biggest problem is the lack of HW keyboard. and please, don;t tell me about TOH HW lbd :)06:34
freemangordon*kbd06:34
Stskeepsnod06:34
Stskeepsno need when you already know ;)06:34
freemangordonI am following the development on TMO06:35
freemangordonout of curiocity, but still06:35
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freemangordonanyway, I still hope there are some remnants living on someone's hd. pa that is06:37
Stskeepsdid you know somebody is putting sailfish on htc desire z, ooi?06:38
Stskeepshttp://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-desire-z/development/teaser-vision-sailfish-os-1-0-8-19-t288523006:38
Stskeepshw keyboard, too06:38
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_cvp_hmm... no gstreamer update, no xmpp extension, no calendar date in notification, :(06:39
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Stskeeps;P06:39
Stskeepser, :P06:39
freemangordonisn't that device as old as n900 is?06:40
Stskeepswell, november 201006:40
freemangordonoh, much better :P06:40
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Stskeepsyou probably think it's heresy but if i was out of a job today and wanted to continue maemo heritage, i'd build a component set around it in qml, not worry about old devices but instead what devices you could enable, build a qml homescreen with lipstick, reutilize sailfishos hw adaptation ability to existing android devices to get interested parties; and then build the ui you want much easier, leveraging middleware work done by others.. but ...06:43
Stskeeps... that's my view after having gotten way too many grey hairs of pulling off an entire stack06:43
Nicd-but CardDAV! \o/06:44
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Nicd-related to _cvp_06:44
_cvp_Nicd and you have a working CardDAV? i try with my ownclud server...but still not work06:44
freemangordonStskeeps: that makes sense if "we" want to drop n900 support. Which "we" don't so far06:45
Stskeepsnod06:45
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pp_n900 is unique hardware, still :-)06:46
pp_(despite large parts of it being obsolete, even on launch day)06:46
Stskeepsi'm still shocked that motorola shipped a omap3 smartwatch06:46
freemangordonyep, but it is RAM limited, so putting QML UI on it will make it crawl like a snail, see Meego DE06:46
Stskeepswell, that's not necessarily a given06:47
Stskeepsram is all about application lifecycle06:47
Stskeepsi've seen really fast qt on that thing06:47
freemangordonwith hildon-desktop?06:47
Stskeepssure, or other things06:47
freemangordonand gtk in the basement.06:47
Stskeepsi've had sailfish ui on this thing: http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_one_touch_fire-5319.php06:48
Stskeepsperfectly fine06:48
freemangordonmy daughter has it :)06:48
Stskeepsit's nicely hackable but damn, it's low on memory06:48
_cvp_Nicd- and you have a working CardDAV? i try with my ownclud server...but still not work06:48
freemangordoniirc it has 1GB of RAM06:48
Stskeepsmodem takes like half of available ram06:48
Stskeepsyeah, no :P06:48
Nicd-_cvp_: no, I don't have owncloud yet. but I'm happy it's progressing :)06:49
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_cvp_yeah let us hope all things will work next year if the second Jolla phone will release...06:50
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entilI wish there was younited support already06:51
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stephgmorning guys06:58
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chem|stwhat/where is that sailfish utilities?07:15
Nicd-in the store07:15
Nicd-when you have installed it you can find it in the settings07:15
stephgwhat does it do when it's installed? (having to do a balance after updating so can't look yet)07:15
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Nicd-provides a few buttons in the settings app07:16
Nicd-to do stuff like restart alien dalvik or restart networking or clear backups and stuff07:16
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chem|ststephg: ? still balancing problmes?07:16
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chem|stNicd-: what store? my store does not show anything07:16
chem|stneither does zypper pkcon...07:17
Nicd-chem|st: jolla store. seach 'sailfish utilities'07:17
Nicd-do you have update 9 installed?07:17
chem|stah.. found it...07:18
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chem|stStskeeps: would be nice to show it as _NEW_07:18
stephgchem|st: 13.75GB used 13.25GB but only FS bytes used 8.29GB so I'm balancing here before I go to work :)07:18
chem|stNicd-: and it does not show in jolla essentials07:18
stephgit's the update that did that so it'll sort itself out with a balance07:19
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stephgNicd-: cool thx07:19
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chem|stI have 5GB overhead after the upgrade, and ~6GB more used (8.x->15.xGB used)07:32
stephgchem|st: balance finished and I regained 1GB07:32
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chem|stah no wrong fs but that is even more interesting... that is my sdcard that was balanced to ~1GB overhead...07:33
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chem|stthe internal has not increased, it decreased, had 8GB available and has now 9GB :)07:34
chem|stoverhead is still 100% 4GB fs 8GB with meta07:35
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chem|staccounts are shred again!07:37
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tadzikhmm, no zypper on device?07:40
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chem|sttadzik: not by default, use pkcon07:41
tadzikI need to remove some warehouse packages, and the warehouse doesn't seem to support taht07:41
tadzikchem|st: oh, that's fine. Thanks07:41
AL13N_workthe new btrfs does have better balancing of meta vs data07:41
AL13N_workit can free up meta and allocate to data if needed07:41
AL13N_workwell, not like that version is on the jolla anyway07:42
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ballockAL13N_work: there's some new btrfs...07:42
ballocknot on Jolla?07:42
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AL13N_workwell, that was pretty recent, where it can de-allocate meta automatically when needed (and if there's enough free)07:43
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AL13N_worklike, a few months ago, max a year, so it might be in 3.16 ... so i doubt jolla has that btrfs version07:43
ballockAL13N_work: when I was working through the btrfs-progs patches yesterday07:44
tadzikaargh, patchmanager, why you do this07:44
ballockand that didn't work as it was there already07:44
ballockI got a temptation to backport 3.16 btrfs to the Jolla kernel07:45
tbrbackporting from current vanilla to an ancient frankenkernel is a major major PITA07:45
tbra lot of the subsystems have changed etc07:45
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ballocktbr: that's the only thing that held me back07:45
ballockand some sanity07:45
tbrIIRC there was a whole filesystem infrastructure rewrite along the way07:45
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chem|stand I thought we are on 3.1607:46
ballockHow bad are we stuck with the Qualcomm kernel?07:46
chem|stwith current release07:46
tbrballock: very bad07:46
ballockThey wouldn't support *anything* newere than that?07:47
chem|stballock: bad is not even a close description07:47
pettterso my vibration has stopped working.. again07:47
tbrballock: it's an "evil vendor kernel", aka frankenkernel, aka: vanilla + random patches + qualcomm + ODM + Jolla07:47
pettteris it actually working for anyone?07:48
stephgpettter: does it work if you try in the csd app?07:48
tbrballock: I recommend Tim Bird's presentation during ELCE on obstacles to upstreaming. he showed this very clearly.07:48
pettterstephg: I can shake it to start it then07:49
pettterbut that's the only way07:49
Nicd-vibration is working just fine for me07:49
ballockummm.. cherry-pick of random patches if they still apply, rebase of Qaulcomm drivers and ODM, and rebase of whatever Jolla?07:49
ballocktbr: link?07:49
tbrhmm, not sure what is online yet07:49
tbrslides should be07:49
ballockvanilla + random patches + qualcomm + ODM + Jolla + backported filesystem changes from 3.16 + btrfs from 3.16 + new tcp stack from ... +07:51
tbrhttp://lccoelce14.sched.org/event/636f687ab244f7abe8ded4fa28660f7c?iframe=no&w=&sidebar=yes&bg=no07:51
pettterguess I'll make a follow-up request for repair :(07:51
AL13N_workwe can only hope QC gives a more recent recent at some point in time07:51
tbryes, I lumped the backports in the 'jolla' bit07:51
AL13N_works/recent recent/recent kernel/07:51
tbrAL13N_work: that won't work for very obvious reasons07:51
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ballockWhen the guys from xda were hacking archos, they got to finding the diff between Archos and TI kernel07:52
ballockso they were able to rebase that with some handcraft to newer TI kernel07:53
ballockStill, that's still TI kernel, not vanilla07:53
AL13N_worktbr: is there anything besides QC that needs 3.4 kernel?07:53
ballockAL13N_work: sounds like sb wants to resolder the chip07:53
AL13N_workheh07:54
tbrballock: I'm quite careful with those franken-kernels. Also there are many many TI kernels, even for OMAP4. It's always a mess07:54
ballocktbr: no slides there07:55
tbrballock: yeah, didn't find those yet07:55
tbrballock: that was just the schedule abstract to give you an idea07:56
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tbrballock: http://www.elinux.org/Overcoming_Obstacles_to_Mainlining07:57
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AL13N_worktbr: after reading that, i get sudden bump of demotivation08:03
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ballockI just saw the number of custom Qualcomm commits, 20395. That's like... well08:04
AL13N_workoh boy08:04
tbrnow you might understand why I'm claiming that moving around kernels is infeasible08:04
tbrfor sure you can boot mainline on the jolla08:05
ballock*boot*...?08:05
tbrBUT, all you will get is output on the debug UART08:05
AL13N_workso, the debug UART is supported?08:05
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tbrI know there is one on the device, yes.08:05
AL13N_workjoy08:06
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AL13N_workso, we can only change kernel after QC puts stuff in upstream?08:06
ballockWow, so then I'll be able to work my way through those 20k commits to port the drivers!08:06
ballockHurray!08:06
AL13N_workwhich is not happening ever?08:06
ballockAL13N_work: I think that's the case08:06
ballockThey will probably patch security-wise, if at all08:07
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ballockbut they focus on new chips, and new kernels there08:07
ballockWant a new kernel, buy a new chip08:07
AL13N_workshit08:07
AL13N_worki wonder if we could buy an upgrade from Jolla08:08
ballockI think TI was a little better in this.08:08
pp_that's android :-)08:08
pp_you get commodity hardware, and a commodity kernel to go with it08:08
AL13N_worki guess this is why people want mobile phones in brick-components08:08
ballockThere's too much of a single vendor in the chip08:09
ballockThe PC commodity consists of a number of hw manufacturers08:09
ballockeach need to cooperate with the rest08:09
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AL13N_workso, in a sense, if someone put in all the time to get through 20k commits and ports a new driver upstream in kernel, it might happen?08:10
ballockand it's easier to swap one piece for that from a different company that does this better08:10
ballockAL13N_work: I believe so08:11
AL13N_workbut that's herculean work08:11
ballockSome foss projects did that08:11
AL13N_workthough if you understand all 20k commits, you will understand the chip almost completely08:11
ballockthey focused on one chip, brought it down to pieces and08:11
AL13N_workballock: i wish you good luck08:12
ballockprovided all the drivers in a detached form, if possible to vanilla08:12
ballockWell, it's not my league.08:12
AL13N_workmyeah08:12
ballockIn this sense I'm wiping dust of the runners' shoes.08:13
AL13N_workThis will take > 1y fulltime to get this poitn... who's gonna do this?08:13
ballockA group of passionate people, like the one that works in Jolla08:13
ballockbut unfortunately, the guys there are busy with more important things08:14
AL13N_workwhat i mean, is that no company can pay this, because this is just to get on equal footing08:14
AL13N_workit's investment without payoff08:14
pp_hmn, http://www.slideshare.net/QualcommDeveloperNetwork/75-ubuntu-linuxsnapdragoncharleboisdechesnepatil918gg4508:14
AL13N_workjust to be able to upgrade older devices and not sell new ones...08:14
pp_upgrade to 3.14 is "work in progress"08:14
AL13N_workpp_: but that's not the device in Jolla, right?08:15
ballockHmm... htat might be close enough08:15
pp_parts of it may apply, others may not08:16
AL13N_workwell, it's something08:16
pp_I'd assume https://www.codeaurora.org/cgit/quic/la/kernel/msm-3.14/ or whatnot08:16
AL13N_workit might lessen the work, that's true08:16
pp_but tracking exactly the bits you would need to boot that beast on a jolla :-)08:17
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pp_"pain" :-)08:17
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ballockSo - there's hope!08:20
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AL13N_workhope == pain08:21
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pp_https://www.codeaurora.org/cgit/quic/la/kernel/msm-3.14/tree/arch/arm/mach-msm?h=linux-linaro-stable/arm64-v3.10 vs. https://github.com/KonstaT/sailfishos_kernel_jolla_msm8930/tree/master/arch/arm/mach-msm tho. and that's just one part of the puzzle :)08:22
ballockarm64? snap600 is arm64?08:23
ballockor snap400 too?08:23
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AL13N_workwth arm6408:25
pp_hmn might have the wrong branch or whatnot08:25
AL13N_workindeed08:25
AL13N_workwell, still, i suppose that too can be used08:25
pp_(might be they mostly working on new kernels for arm64)08:25
ballockIf I had the time like in http://xkcd.com/505/08:25
ballockI would do it.08:25
AL13N_workheh08:27
ballockI'm interested to hear what frieking insanity made QC provide it's own wlan implemetnation08:29
ballockeither they already had it and it was easier to just push the blob08:30
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ballockor it was so coupled with 3g or whatever that they couldn't work with the vanilla wifi stack08:30
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Nicd-the calendar performance improved so much with update 909:39
Sceltyeah. big thanks to the calendar master09:40
Nicd-big thanks to Qt 5.2 I guess :P09:40
Sceltmaybe :)09:41
xfade_Nicd-: no, that was more sqlite work etc..09:41
Nicd-xfade_: I meant UI performance09:41
Nicd-like scrolling in the month view09:41
Nicd-it used to be terribly laggy09:41
xfade_Nicd-: Ah, right09:41
Sceltand creating a new one09:41
Nicd-xfade_: are you a sailor?09:43
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inteThe Jolla camera sucks09:48
Nicd-it's... challenging :)09:48
inteI want a Pureview808 cam in my Jolla!09:49
inteASAP!!09:49
Sceltwith a scratched lens, it's annoying09:49
inte:)09:49
inteScelt: even without09:49
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Nicd-it has its moments: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/110693235602405640560/albums/5951600878348798689/6046030986364664066?pid=6046030986364664066&oid=11069323560240564056009:50
Nicd-but yes, it's a pretty mediocre camera09:51
intewell ok that pic isnt too bad if it was really made with a Jolla phone09:51
inteI honestly doubt that09:51
inte:)09:51
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Nicd-inte: all pics in that album starting with the keyboard pic are taken with my Jolla09:52
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inteah cool09:58
intedidnt know it were yours09:58
inteand the info could easily be faked09:59
inteseems you have some experience using your jolla cam09:59
intei mostly have trouble indoors09:59
intethe weissabgleich (missing the english word) obviously fails quite often09:59
interesulting in very strange colors10:00
Nicd-white balance10:00
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intemight help to convert them to black and white :)10:00
Nicd-someone should make a camera app capable of RAW photos so we could edit them10:00
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intei have cameraplus but i dont know if it does RAW10:01
intethere was a brilliant app for the n900!!10:01
intewas soo good at that time10:02
intei still dont understand nokia why they destroyed maemo10:02
inteand then meego10:02
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inteor was it Microsoft10:02
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Nicd-there was an app for N900 which did RAW10:07
Nicd-also I'd love actual manual focus10:07
Nicd-focusing is the thing I have most problems with in the Jolla camera10:07
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tadzikshameless self-ad: https://together.jolla.com/question/60104/selectively-enable-specific-system-sounds/10:21
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chem|stinte: it was microsoft10:31
intewell, or rather the shareholders10:32
intethey just couldnt imaging that there was a company that could actually do software10:32
inteapart from SAP10:32
intethe backed Elop who virtually distroyed the company10:33
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intebut still10:33
inteNokia did enough crap before that10:33
inteno clear strategy, burning money10:33
chem|stinte: no one can proof it but that was a planed microsoft takeover -> microsoft ceo changes direction of nokia towards microsoft, destroys all inhouse competition10:33
Jopemy view on it all is, that nokia's matrix organization is partially to blame..10:33
Jopethe whole company was fighting against each other10:33
Jopesymbian had more backers high up10:33
inteJope: sure10:33
intei would also think so10:34
Jopethus meego was the red-headed step child10:34
Stskeepswith no soul!10:34
Stskeeps:P10:34
Jopeand many things were done to not insult the holy symbian10:34
intebut still, noone from nokia was actually behind windows10:34
Jopefor example no cellmos in maemo devices before the n900..10:34
jonwilSymbian was (and is) crap10:34
Jopetrue, I read something about an analyst company helping forge the future10:34
inteoh, symbian wasnt that particular bad10:34
Jopethose analysts were probably looking at wp and android and nothing else10:35
intebut meego just far better :)10:35
Nicd-symbian WAS that bad10:35
Jopenokia also took way too long to get its qt act together.10:35
Nicd-in fact it was even worse10:35
Jopeit would have solved many of the symbian coder wtfs10:35
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inteand they were blaming Nokia of loosing smartphone market share despite Nokia was still growing10:35
Jopebut it came too late10:35
intethat was so ridiculous10:35
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jonwilWhat Nokia did with Symbian vs MeeGo is like what Apple did when the mac first came out, the guy running the company (the Pepsi guy) didn't want to give the Mac too much push because it would hurt their bread and butter (the Apple 2)10:36
intebut the symbian/qt thing was quite amazing10:36
Jopebut yeah, just my opinion.. and everyone has one10:36
inteone code, meego and symbian apps10:36
Jopeyeh..'10:36
chem|stpeople compared smartphone market shares... and stopped comparing real market share10:36
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Jopenokia wasn't exactly on the verge of bankruptcy when elop came along10:36
Jopehe could have gradually steered the company towards an upward trend10:37
jonwilI have read the Symbian source code (the bits that were made public anyway) and its totally impossible to make any sense of it10:37
Jopeinstead the option taken was to shit on everything and kill off all the internal stuff10:37
chem|stthe N9 sold better on markets it was not advertised to as any lumia of that time10:37
Jopenaturally my opinion on the upward trend is less emphasis on symbian and more emphasis on meego :---D10:37
intejope when Elop came along Nokia Mobile still HAD an upward trend!!10:38
Jopetrue also10:38
inteThe thing is that Elop wanted Nokia to push Microsoft WP10:38
intethat was clear from the begining10:38
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intethe only question is why he was chosen as CEO at all10:39
inteand that were the US-shareholders10:39
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jonwilI think part of the problem Nokia had at the time is that they basically had near-zero presence in the USA for anything above their mass-market dumbphones10:39
Jopeso what :-)10:39
Jopenokia was doing quite great elsewhere10:39
intewho were probably easy to convince that an MS operating system is clearly better that something from Europe10:39
jonwilNone of the major US carriers were interested in Symbian or Maemo/Meego10:39
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Jopethat problem was probably in the investors' heads10:39
Temeis there a known bug where Internet sharing / WLAN hotspot becomes undisableable?10:40
Jopewell, you will never know who was interested in meego and who wasn't10:40
Jopethat data was not public10:40
Teme(is undisableable a real word)10:40
inteNokia/Lumia still has near-zero presence in the US, btw:)10:40
cowboyjonwil: low presence in usa, but it owned the rest of the world10:40
inteWho cares about the US market? The world is so huge10:40
inteLook at china for instance10:40
interussia10:40
inteanywhere10:40
Jopethe us makes certain mobile trends, that's for sure10:40
ggabrielinte: in hindsight... ;)10:40
ggabrielTeme: happened to me, only twice, and only once i rebooted10:41
Temeok10:41
inteat least MS eventually dropped the Nokia brand completly now10:41
ggabrieltry airplane mode and then disable it10:41
Temewas there a tjc?10:41
chem|stpeople think the US market is big, but it isn't, asia middle east is big and that is what Jolla is going to first after their home market10:41
ggabrielTeme: no idea10:41
inteJope: but not all us trend are big in the rest of the world10:41
jonwilI still think the N900 is the best phone ever made10:41
inteespecially for mobile10:41
Jopetrue10:41
ggabrielchem|st: but that's a recent trend, not sure that was the mindset when elop joined nokia10:41
ggabrielwell... relatively recent trend10:41
Temeggabriel: still unable to disable but thx :(10:42
ggabrielproblem with investors is that they think, while all companies need is their money10:42
ggabrielleave thinking to the professionals10:42
chem|stjonwil: agreed, if that beast had been made today it would been my next phone (probably ordering it now^^)10:42
tadzikI think it was a pretty bad phone (n900), but surely the best mobile device I ever had10:42
inteI personally think Nokia should rejoin with Jolla and kick WPs ass with some brilliant NokiaSailfish phones with HERE and Pureview :)10:42
tadzikircing from the metro was awesome, ui freezing when someone called not so much10:43
intetadzik: nice description and i totally agree10:43
chem|stjonwil: even with the current maemo-extras repo it is way ahead of any other phone10:43
intetadzik: i would even call the N900 a phone at all :)10:43
tadzikI don't even want a phone though :)10:43
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ggabrieli regret not getting an n90010:43
tadzikI want an alarm clock with a gps10:43
chem|stggabriel: recent? asia middle east and africa is trending for a decade now...10:43
integgabriel: you could still go for a neo900 :)10:44
ggabrielchem|st: yes, relatively recently, and i'm talking about the mindset that looked at asia/africa more than the stats10:44
AardUSA market was more like a status symbol, it should have been clear long time ago (even for nokia) that you don't make much money there (and get sued anyway)10:44
ggabrielinte: i'm watching that space, i like sailfish tho10:44
inteyeah10:45
ggabriel+1 Aard, and look at china how much they love their iphones when they can afford dthem10:45
ggabriel(sadly)10:45
intethe worst thing was that nokia didnt sell the n95010:45
ggabrielif USA, then good10:45
ggabriel+1 inte  :)10:45
intethat would have been a true successor for the n90010:45
chem|stAard: I'd abandone the US completely, if they want my product they have to build their own import routes10:45
ggabrieli'd have never transitioned from the n9 tho10:46
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ggabrielerm n95010:46
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Pawkyinte: you are not considering Jolla a true successor?10:46
Aardchem|st: my personal opinion about USA business is "we can give it a try -- after you sort out your fucked up patent system and your NSA issues"10:46
intePawky: well, from the software side, it is10:46
tadzikwelllll10:47
intePawky: but i guess i somewhat started this discussion by complaining about the camera :)10:47
Temehttps://together.jolla.com/question/59874/release-notes-opt-in-upgrade-to-software-version-11038-uitukka/ btw what's this?10:47
TemeTL;DR10:47
ggabrielTeme: read the question, it's all very well explained10:47
ggabrielwell....10:47
Pawkywell... its a phone camera, what do people expect... its a phone for christ sake...10:47
SceltTeme: new opt-in update, update9 as it is10:48
ggabrielnah, a camera similar to the n9's would have been so much better, but you can't have everything10:48
Pawkythere are camera cameras for taking photos...10:48
cowboyhttp://gigjets.com/10/19342-jolla-2-release-date-sailfish-os-update/10:48
tadzikfrom the UI side, N900 was imho still in the desktop mindset (clicking), while Jolla is neck deep in the touch mindset (gestures)10:48
intePlus, since Jolla is not as big as Nokia once was it is rather unknown to the public (except for finland)10:48
tadzikI remember seeing the first demos and thinking "hey, they actually got it right"10:48
intePawky: well, other phone cams are just better now and Nokia used to make the best10:48
Temeggabriel: yeah ok i get what it is, but when is the actual update coming and is it the same10:49
PawkyWell I think Jolla is definitely a good start, if they could achieve this with their limitations, we could probably expect a LOT from the next generation :-)10:49
intePawky: thats what id also think but the still might need some backing of... maybe nokia10:50
Pawkyinte: buy the DSC-QX10, like I did, if you want, as I did, all problem solved (well you will have to write the app though)10:50
chem|stJolla could try to buy the design (n950) and build _the_ developer device for sailfish, every time they release a new phone they put the same hardware in their developer kit - toh pinout could be adapted to the design and it ships with a detachable dev board...10:50
intePawky: so you wrote an app?10:50
PawkyI am trying to... but I am not a programmer, more of a hacker..10:50
intePawky: see10:50
Pawkyits dead simple though, speaks through http...10:50
intebut bluetooth right?10:51
Pawkynope, wireless10:51
Pawkyhttp://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/dsc-qx1010:51
inteso why dont you use the android app then?10:51
PawkyI was thinking about 3d printing the detachable backplate onto a Jolla backplate... then nobody can complain about bad cameras any more :-)10:52
Pawkyyou cannot...10:52
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intewhy? There is no support for bluetooth in adalvik, but wifi should work10:52
Pawkybecause of some VERY SECRET REASON NOBODY WANTS TO TELL ME, alien dalviks network driver doesnt listen in upon 239.0.0.0 SPP /multicast stuff10:52
StskeepsPawky: it's not alien dalvik's10:52
Pawkyso it will  never find the camera... :-(10:53
Stskeepsit's our wlan driver10:53
Pawkybut I have used perl in jolla to take pictures.. .jihaa10:53
PawkyStskeeps: well... you mean its the OS?10:53
Pawkyif anybody could shine some light here, I might get it to work fully10:53
Stskeepshttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-May/004160.html10:53
Pawkyand that wold be SOOOO cool10:53
Pawkynow.. thats an interesting link :-)10:54
fluxso you can just set it at runtime?10:54
fluxseems like a solved problem then :)10:54
Pawkyhell yeah... first thing when getting back home.... after uprading my phone, reinstalling all software... yadayada10:55
Pawkythanks very much for that info :-)10:55
Pawkymaybe we will have a solution for all you camera dwellers.... ;-)10:55
inteLOL:) Good to talk about hardware from time to time :)10:57
intePawky: let me know if it worked for you, then ill consider buying one of those cames as well10:57
* inte going for lunch10:58
Pawkywould there be a way to set it automatically before an android ap is run? with the systemd service or something?11:00
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Pawkyinte: I surely will... I also hope people or me will create a native app for it :-)11:00
krnlynghi, i've sent an email to update9-opt-in@jolla.com yesterday but i still no notification to update has appeared, do non-first-ones have to wait longer?11:00
tadzikno11:00
tadzikI am The Last One and waited about 5 minutes11:01
Nicd-krnlyng: was it from the same email as your jolla account has?11:01
Pawkykrnlyng: duh.. is the latest update an opt in?11:01
Sceltkrnlyng: did you check update manually?11:02
krnlyngNicd-: i am pretty sure11:02
krnlyngScelt: via settings->system->sailfishos updates? then yes11:02
Sceltye11:02
krnlyngPawky: yep11:02
PawkyWhy??? I want it.11:02
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SceltPawky: opt-in then https://together.jolla.com/question/59874/release-notes-opt-in-upgrade-to-software-version-11038-uitukka/11:03
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inteisnt this a bit to far... http://gigjets.com/09/18548-jolla-sailfish-os-windows-phone/ :)11:04
tadzikPawky: then opt in :P11:04
krnlyngNicd-: is there a way to check my jolla acount email?11:05
Pawkyjust send a mail without writing anything?11:05
tadzikI think having an opt-in update to sailfish because it might be unstable is a bit like having a stable and a testing branch of debian gnu/hurd or something11:05
Nicd-krnlyng: go to account.jolla.com11:05
Pawkyor do I have to write "pretty please"? :-)11:05
tadzikit's for early adopters and in constant development, the newer the better is almost always true11:05
Nicd-Pawky: write "Based Stskeeps"11:06
Pawkytadzik: I am an early adopter or sure.... right guys? ;-)11:06
Nicd-he will descend from the skies in a cloud, handing you the update11:06
intetadzik: never change a running system SCNR11:06
gexccsslayer: any possibility for fcitx on jolla?11:06
Pawkyinte: Nothing runs for long, without changes...11:06
krnlyngNicd-: ok it was the wrong email... although i was pretty sure i used the other one... thanks :)11:07
PawkyNicd-: your kidding... right?11:07
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xfade_krnlyng: what is your jolla account name?11:08
xfade_I can check if you like.11:08
krnlyngxfade_: krnlyng but thanks i already figured it out :)11:08
cowboyinte: it's pure speculation for now, but Jolla might announce Jolla2 at Slush next month11:09
xfade_krnlyng: ah, yeah.. noticed ;)11:09
tadzikbwahaah, that gigjets link11:09
tadzikwhat a load of BS11:09
krnlyngso you're responsible for checking who emailed :D? if yes then sorry for the emails from my other email accounts :D11:10
Pawkyduh... how come the indians only have to pay $170 for the phone?.... :-(11:10
tadzikregional pricing, duh11:10
tadzikit's not about how much it costs to make it, it's about how much you're willing to pay11:10
Sail0rhm wlan keeps crashing at work11:10
Pawkytadzik: can you send me 10 $10 a piece? :-)11:11
xfade_krnlyng: script ;)11:11
xfade_krnlyng: And it does not care, believe me.11:11
tadzikPawky: no :P11:11
Pawkythen there is an error in your saying11:11
krnlyngxfade_: thought so :)11:11
tadzikI fail to see any connection11:11
intePawky: sure wasnt so serious :)11:11
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tadzikif you're a company trying to determine a price for your product you're not thinking "hmm, let's take however much it costs us to produce it and add 20% for future investment"11:12
Pawkyso,  could buy them retail in india for $170 a piece, then reflash them if need be and sell it in the western world far cheaper than others?11:12
PawkyI am seeing profits to e made here... he he...11:12
tadzikyou say "let's think how can we maximize the income based on how many people would buy it for price X"11:13
tadzikPawky: I think you could, that's usually how trading works :D11:13
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tadzikI don't say I agree with it or that I'm satisfied with this situation, I'm just reconciled with my dissatisfaction about how business apparently works :P11:14
tadzikit's especially funny with digital distribution11:15
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Sail0ranyone resolved the 802.1x issues with the optin update?11:16
cowboyPawky: yeah, too bad snapdeal doesn't ship outside India :(11:18
chem|stPawky: problem is, different warranty, taxes, customer care requirements11:18
gexcis update 9 a rolling one?11:20
Pawkychem|st: are you giving the indians a lesser warranthy... are you treating them as secondary citizens?11:21
xfade_gexc: no, you should get it about 20 minutes after your mail.11:21
gexclol11:23
gexcI meant 'rolling update', my bad11:23
chem|stPawky: legal rules, EU has a minimum 2-year guarantee, the 1-year warranty is untouched11:24
Pawkyi believe thats all mumbo jumbo.... there is no reason why they would have less warranthy, unless they break phones more often...11:25
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Pawkybut maybe this is rather a political discussion to be somewhere else ;-)11:26
PawkyTo me, companies do this to be able to sell at different prices, with an excuse to do so...11:26
Pawkyso everybody here in Europe thinks... aaahhh   but we get more.11:26
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PawkyIn the end most of us in here have probably already void our warrant by doing something.. so for us... give us cheaper phones please ;-D11:27
Pawkywhere is the null warrant version? :-P11:27
tadzikvote with your wallet and import it from india :)11:28
Pawkynah.. i am happily paying what I am paying... its just the thought of it..11:28
chem|stPawky: it is the difference in enacted law, EU has a minimum guarantee of 2 years, in india you get what the company tells you in a warranty sheet11:28
Pawkychem|st: true, but thats not a hinder for Jolla to give the same warranty anyway in India..11:29
chem|stbut they don't11:29
Stskeepsalso, it's snapdeal selling, isn't it?11:29
Pawkybecause they use it as an excuse to sell the same harware cheaper..11:29
chem|stjolla has a 1 year limited warranty statement11:29
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chem|stStskeeps: does not matter11:30
jonwilstskeeps: ping11:30
Teguough, talking about warranty. should I send the phone to care due to a few stuck (green) pixels.. or is it a messy process?11:32
chem|stPawky: the warranty statement stands for all customers, but some markets (like the EU) have regulations in place - guarantee law11:32
ggabrielTegu: up to you really :) how many pixels out of interest?11:33
Teguthey're not very visible so it's not annoying. only visible in complete darkness with dark picture11:34
tadzikTegu: iirc there's nothing messy about warranty service apart from being phoneless for a week or two11:34
chem|sttadzik: or 3 or 411:35
tadzikhah. Consider me discouraged :P11:35
chem|stmy phone was lost and all for a sudden it appeared on my doorstep11:35
Teguhm, or do they even take devices with stuck pixels?11:36
tadzikclearly some random person found it and being kind of heart brought it to you11:36
chem|stneither fedex nor care@jolla knew where my phone is at that time11:36
tadziksounds like tons of sun11:37
tadzikfun*11:37
ggabrielit was the love for its owner that took it back to you, chem|st11:37
chem|st;)11:37
Pawkytadzik: all well as long as those "tons of fun" isn't right on top of ones Jolla phone... ;-)11:39
tadzikheh11:39
chem|stiirc I sent it in on 15th got it sent back on 25th and it arrived on 23rd the next month11:41
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Teguggabriel: okay turned up the brightness and now they are more visible. there are about 6 of them and maybe a couple of more but darker. at the right hand side of the screen11:44
ggabrielwell, ask jolla if they'd change it11:45
ggabrieland see if you can live without the device11:45
ggabrielbut thanks for the info11:45
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Pawkyggabriel: more or less all companies have som kind of limit how many faulty pixel would be acceptable, but then again I have never ever heard someone who sent one in (notebooks, phones what have you)  regardless of the amount of pixels, only to get it sent back with "sorry they are to few and to scattered"... a11:52
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Pawkythey all got replaced11:52
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ggabrielPawky: yup, normally 3 :)11:53
Pawkyggabriel: And whilst talking about EU law... within the first year, its the manufacturer who is to prove that you have broken a device or else they have to address the issue..11:55
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PawkyI also highly doubt this "you void your warranty" warning actually holds in court...11:56
Pawkyit didn't for apple..11:57
ggabriel:)11:57
ggabrieli wasn't asking anyway11:57
Pawkyohh.. uh,.... addressed wrong person... O:-)11:58
Pawkywell.. who asked will read..11:58
cowboynonetheless, if you go to court you're going to pay your lawyer more than you would pay for a new phone11:59
ggabrielsmall claims should be cheap12:00
ggabrielor free12:00
joonahoiif you win, usually the loser gets to pay for the lawyer fees12:01
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r0kk3rzyeah but you still need to have the cash for the lawyer up front12:28
r0kk3rzagainst a company with a lot more to lose than you do12:28
r0kk3rzthe usual trick is to keep delaying and appealing until the individual runs out of money12:29
Sail0rdoes anyone have a working carddav setup?12:30
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Sail0rhmmm12:40
Sail0rit's half working now12:40
Sail0r^^12:40
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CazouI don't really understand why both partitions 20 and 21 on the internal mmc (mmcblk0) are android bootimgs (kernel + ramdisk) with different cmdlines12:51
Cazouthe first one doesn't have a root arg12:51
StskeepsCazou: recovery vs not..?12:51
Stskeepsrecovery doesn't need a root arg12:51
Stskeepsout of curiousity, what are you trying to do? :)12:52
CazouStskeeps: I see :) hacking, "out of curiosity" as you say :)12:53
Stskeepsyeah, sure12:53
Stskeepsjust don't screw up the recovery one12:53
Stskeepsanyhow, knowing more about what you're trying to do might help me do a better job at helping you12:54
Stskeeps:P12:54
Cazouyep, I'll try not to !12:54
Cazoubasically, understanding how a phone boots12:55
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Cazoulater, maybe booting another from the external SD card12:55
StskeepsCazou: http://pastie.org/9670142 and you're in for some pain :P12:55
Stskeepsboot.img can root=/ from sd card, sure12:56
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chem|stwhat do I need to set to have carddav with owncloud working?12:58
CazouStskeeps: So far, i've been trying to overwrite boot.img through fastboot but with no luck :(12:59
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CazouStskeeps: thanks anyway, I'm supposed to be working on something else, i should get back to it :p13:03
Sail0ryay wlan finally working again after installing http://repo.merproject.org/obs/home:/csslayer:/branches:/home:/tbr:/sailfish/latest_armv7hl/armv7hl/connman-1.24+git46+master.394.1.ga5393b5-10.6.1.jolla.armv7hl.rpm13:08
Sail0rbut I don't think this is a good solution at the end because it might break the next update _x13:08
chem|stSail0r: wont break...13:09
Sail0rk13:10
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gexc-phonejust updated...13:52
gexc-phoneperformance seems bad :-/13:52
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Stskeepsgive it a bit13:54
Stskeepsdexopt sec13:54
Stskeepsetc13:54
xfade_gexc-phone: did you wait until android was done processing your apks?13:54
gexc-phonemaybe not13:55
gexc-phonejust fresh reboot13:55
xfade_top will tell you13:55
gexc-phoneokay13:55
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secI am waiting till the general feedback is yelling *stable*, but god that changelog looks so awesome13:55
xfade_But whenever alien gets updated, it needs to reindex the apks.13:55
xfade_This can take quite a while if you have many.13:56
ggabrielit optimises the applications like windows vista13:56
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gexc-phone:-/13:56
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xfade_Anyway, it is a one time thing. After that it is done, it is all fine.13:59
* gexc-phone forgot to disable patchmanager before updating13:59
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r0kk3rzits stable for me, but YMMV14:04
r0kk3rzupdate 10 shouldnt be too far away and will fix whatever showstoppers exist14:04
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pdanekBiggest mobile satisfy and also biggest disappointment of the year? Choose please. :)14:08
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ggabrieli got discouraged re memory mgmt14:08
ggabrielas i use meerun a lot and it sucks a little bit at that :)14:08
Sail0rhttp://www.jollatides.com/2014/10/22/opt-in-now-for-update-9-uitukka/14:08
ggabrielSail0r: no, I won't :P14:08
Sail0rit's a warning about uitukka14:09
Sail0r;)14:09
ggabrielyeah, just don't like those headings that want you to do something14:09
r0kk3rzprobably talk to morpog and Nicd about memory issues14:09
r0kk3rzthey had bad experience with tahkalampi as well14:09
ggabrielwell, meerun is pretty much alpha atm14:10
ggabrieland i know i'll have to pay for it eventually14:10
ggabrielso i won't make too much noise, just deal with it14:10
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ggabrielbut i won't update if i know that the problem is likely to exist on my device14:10
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ggabrielhaving said that, the changelog is tempting indeed14:11
r0kk3rzmy point is they'll give you an idea of if its better or worse14:11
r0kk3rzeven if not completely fixed14:11
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pdanekDid Finland itself make over 50% of total Jolla sales?14:14
r0kk3rzthe big countries by download for SirenSong are finland and germany14:16
r0kk3rzat about equal portions each14:16
r0kk3rzas for absolute jolla sales, no idea I dont think jolla have released that14:17
gexc-phonebetter keyboard haptics in the update?14:17
gexc-phoneor just my illusion14:17
r0kk3rzthe vibe seems a little less strong14:17
gexc-phoneseems snappier14:18
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* gexc-phone feels it's stronger though14:20
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r0kk3rzthings are in general snappier14:20
r0kk3rzso i guess you may be right there14:21
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pdanek1Qt was often considered less lightweight than GTK+.14:28
pdanek1Is it still the case?14:28
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pdanek1Or was it just an illusion caused by KDE vs Gnome, where Gnome has been usually faster?14:29
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phdeswerpdanek1: the only thing I remember was the license issues. And the eternal C vs C++14:32
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csslayerpdanek1: usually the implementation of specific application matters much more than a toolkit.14:41
r0kk3rzpdanek1: is probably doesnt matter anymore as things have gotten faster14:43
r0kk3rzram cheaper and more plentiful etc14:43
pdanek1right14:45
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TemeVr0kk3rz: and software has become more bloat15:13
r0kk3rzyeah15:13
r0kk3rzgenerally15:13
r0kk3rzbut the difference between qt and gtk is probably negligable15:13
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r0kk3rzunless one has had some epic bloat added to it over the years and one hasnt15:14
TemeVI've read a research that said software gets heavier way faster than hardware evolves15:14
TemeVYeah, I guess toolkits haven't become heavier, so developmet in hardware makes differences irrelevant15:17
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stephgwith u9 has anyone else lost their remorse timer in the notifications view? I've just been through the release notes and don't see it there15:43
stephglooks like a regression to me15:43
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veskuhstephg: It was done on purpose15:51
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Morpog_PCand I like it15:52
stephgfair enough15:52
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r0kk3rzi like it too15:55
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pawky|2WTF?... you can not regreet the language you chose when booting the first time, you can only accept.... >:-(16:02
pawky|2oh.... ehh... ok.. you pull the SAME direction to also deny your choice and choose another language.. duh...16:03
pawky|2not to pedagogic in my opinion...16:04
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coderuspawky|2: many users cant even finish language selection. they think language is not selecting. :)16:11
pawky|2coderus: there you are... dude.. thanks... it works :-)16:12
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coderuspawky|2: :)16:14
coderusJolla look ^ this user successfully recovered device in recovery shell using dd16:14
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pahartikpawky|2: How did you initially end up in problem situation?16:31
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pawky|2pahartik: well he he I wanted to move the android stuff to my 64GB super fast SD card.... which worked nicely, but after rebooting it went  a bit sour...16:35
pawky|2this mod relies on some systemd androidsdcard.service thingy to auto mount your partition before android uses it... I assume that one needs some mod..16:36
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pawky|2then i got lost in rescue modes, snapshots what have you... and when Jonni started to scare me with care@jolla for reflashing I went for a super reset :-)16:37
pawky|2that was all good, until i realised i then had a 1.0.0.5 version which neither liked to be upgraded nor wanted to connect to the Jolla store...16:37
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pawky|2then an angel came to my rescue and wispered a link to heaven....16:38
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pawky|2now I have 1.0.8.19 and its upgrading go 21....16:38
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pawky|2pahartik: oh.. the result was my phone started to "boot loop"....16:42
pawky|2which made do the super reset..16:42
pawky|2Houston, we have a problem....16:43
pahartikpawky|2: But you were prepared with images of block storage devices?16:43
pawky|2yes :-)16:44
pawky|2if understanding you correctly16:44
pawky|2now after updating to 21... i can turn on the wifi, but I cannot choose the "connect to internet" bar... :-(16:45
pawky|2It tells me network is not available please restart device... :'(16:45
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pawky|2anyone having any ideas?16:46
TMavicabalancing only can free some space from 12GB used, is it normal?16:48
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pawky|2are you freezing me out now after doing my geheimliche upgrade?16:50
pawky|2TMavica: well.. the image i burned was around 13.4 GB... so your not that far off ;-)16:50
TMavicalol..16:51
TMavicaonly 9.13 free, cant free more.16:51
pawky|2sooo no one has any clue what so ever to get the Wifi up and running?16:52
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pawky|2I am alone....16:54
pawky|2___/\_____/\___/\____/\_________16:54
pawky|2_______________________________________16:54
pawky|2heeeeeelp....16:56
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Yanieldoes 3g work at least?16:56
pawky|2yes.. thankfully it does :-)16:56
Yanieljournalctl might tell something16:57
Yanielcould be the broken connman thing someone mentioned earlier today?16:57
pawky|2I am all ears16:57
Yanieldidn't follow the discussion much16:59
pawky|2:-(17:00
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Yanielbut it was more about u917:01
pawky|2ohh..17:01
Yanielsomeone just mentioned connman used to be broken before too17:01
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Aardhttps://github.com/mer-packages/connman/commit/ad7e7d92eb8c262e0bead21a350d48111e8cb67b17:02
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Aardhopefully we'll have it out during tomorrow17:02
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pawky|2Aard: does that count for 10.0.8.21?17:08
pawky|2Aard: does that account for my issue.. i just booted up after the upgrade, I can turn the wifi on, but cannot choose connect to internet17:10
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pawky|2I just don't get one thing... i have been installing and upgrading all from the first 1.0.0.5, now when installing the 10.0.8.19 it looks so much different... settings isn't where it used to be when sliding down, only silence phone is there..17:15
pawky|2how come?17:16
pawky|2are these things just days old?17:16
pawky|2the phone also feels much faster..17:17
coderuspawky|2: /sbin/lsmod | grep wlan17:17
coderusah, or you have available wlan list?17:18
pawky|2not much there...17:18
pawky|2ahhh.. ok..17:18
pawky|2or...well.. ok... whats the module name to be there?17:19
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coderuswlan                 2592646  017:19
coderuscfg80211              144917  1 wlan17:19
pawky|2actually there are no modules at all...17:19
coderusor similar17:19
pawky|2there is nothing there.17:19
pawky|2nada enchiladas..17:19
coderusdo /sbin/modprobe wlan17:19
pawky|2empty as my head....17:20
pawky|2did that, but nope17:20
coderusdo lsmod again17:20
coderushave module loaded?17:20
pawky|2nothing....17:20
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pawky|2really, just doing lsmod wihtoug grep gives an empty result...17:21
coderussystemctl start wlan-module-load.service17:21
pawky|2Job for wlan-module-load.service failed. See 'systemctl status wlan-module-load.service' and 'journalctl -xn' for details.17:22
coderusso, check the status17:22
pawky|2i am...17:22
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pawky|2Unit wlan-module-load.service entered failed state.17:23
coderuscheck journalctl17:23
pawky|2wlan-module-load.service: main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE17:23
pawky|2(this is an exceprt from it..)17:24
coderuspawky|2: and you had same issue before recovering device, right?17:25
pawky|2duh... the modules are wrong..17:25
pawky|2look:17:25
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pawky|2Linux Jolla 3.4.0.20131115.2 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Nov 18 03:00:49 UTC 2013 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux17:25
coderuspastebin or similar17:25
pawky|2drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 346 Sep 11 07:15 3.4.91.20140612.117:25
pawky|2drwxr-xr-x 1 root root  12 Sep 11 07:15 3.4.0.20140304.117:25
pawky|2thats under /lib/modules17:25
pawky|2(yeah i could pastebin, but its only half a line long...)17:26
coderusah17:26
coderusoh17:26
coderusmodules!17:26
pawky|2you see?17:26
coderus3g working?17:26
pawky|2yes :-)17:26
pawky|2weird ha?17:27
coderusdo zypper in -f kernel-adaptation-sbj kernel-headers17:27
pawky|2zypper?... do we have opensuse now?17:27
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AL13Nthe packagekit implementation uses libzypper17:28
pawky|2there is no zypper17:28
coderuspkcon install zypper if needed17:28
pawky|2ok.17:28
AL13Nif you need it you'll have to install it via pkcon17:28
pawky|2me like zypper, me opensuse guy17:28
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AL13Ncoderus: can this command not be run in pkcon ?17:28
coderuspawky|2: just dont forget to clear /var/log/zypper.log, it may grow :)17:29
pawky|2ok :-)17:29
coderusAL13N: yes, but zypper provide better information about process17:29
pawky|2doing the zypper thing now17:29
pawky|2i always hated pkcon search name17:29
pawky|2wtf.. name?17:30
pawky|2(things are coming in slowly but steadily..)17:30
Aardpawky|2: man alias17:30
AL13Nwell, packagekit is supposedly the packager that can be used in all distros and all backends17:30
pawky|2Aard: LOL17:32
pawky|2coderus: ok... stuff is installed17:32
coderuspawky|2: reboot now17:32
pawky|2will do :-)17:32
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pawky|2coderus: yipicayeeee m.... it works :-D17:34
coderuspawky|2: good17:35
pawky|2does aptoid and yandex have everything thats on Google play?17:38
coderuspawky|2: no17:38
pawky|2and there is still no one click get google play solution right?17:38
coderususe http://apps.evozi.com/apk-downloader/ for playstore17:39
coderuspawky|2: no click for google17:39
pawky|2so far, my experience... its better to flash into a very recently version than upgrading from 1.0.0.5, its much more snappier and responsive...17:40
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ariselAhoi! :)17:46
ariselCan anyone provide me with a btrfs-zero-log arm-binary? Might help me to recover my jolla.. :(17:47
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coderuspawky|2: its not flashing, its just restoring raw partition17:52
TMavicao, after reset, balance again and got more space17:52
pawky|2TMavica: do it ten times and you will have 100% free space :-)17:53
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TMavicaLOL17:54
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TMavicacoderus: here?18:07
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pawky|2coderus: could there be more stuff missing, like repos?18:17
pawky|2wanted to install wget, but its not found even18:17
TMavicais there a site can get whatsapp sms code?18:17
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pawky|2TMavica: most of them are usually banned...18:18
TMavicai cant get sms code and voice in mitakuuluu now18:20
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pawky|2coderus: yeah your right, its not flashing...18:21
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pawky|2installed wget from warehouse. Now wget complains about no libssl.so.1.0.018:28
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pawky|2anyone having a clue what package might provide that one?18:29
pawky|2I thought openssl.. but obviously not.18:29
Scelthow about libssl?18:30
pawky|2didnt find it with zypper...18:30
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Sceltdunno about zypper18:30
Scelthttp://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=libssl.so.1.0.018:30
pawky|2well pkcon search name libbsl doesnt give any as well18:31
meklumaybe it's got a different version?18:31
pawky|2meklu: how do you mean?18:32
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mekluhmm, probably not18:32
meklulike 0.9.8 or so18:32
pawky|2meklu: no.. libssl.so.1.0.1h18:32
pawky|2hmm.. maybe symlink to it?18:33
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pawky|2meklu: yeah, fixed it with two symlinks :-)18:37
cvp_hi :)18:39
gogetawho live in india here ?18:39
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meklupawky|2: nice :)18:51
cvp_is there a ready callrecorder rpm ?18:52
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r0kk3rzcvp_: not really18:58
cvp_r0kk3rz, ok :(19:01
r0kk3rzthere is a work in progress though19:02
r0kk3rzhttps://together.jolla.com/question/5008/call-recording-app/19:02
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r0kk3rznot sure if its suitable for consumption or not19:03
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gogetar0kk3rz, i think pulseaudio modules and conf is scaring thing19:04
r0kk3rzwell without it pulseaudio doesnt get the farside call audio19:04
r0kk3rzso you can only get the local mic19:05
r0kk3rzthat type of call recorder is available in the jolla store19:05
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cvp_r0kk3rz, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1443362&postcount=36419:12
r0kk3rzwell there you go19:12
cvp_but he dont try it, one from jolla do that19:13
cvp_but i dont know how to build a rpm installer file19:13
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r0kk3rzsooner or later someone will put a compiled copy on openrepos19:14
r0kk3rzbut if the main issue is solved in uitukka, then someone will finish it off19:15
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TeguI'm currently trying to mess with pulseaudio.. I just don't understand enough.. https://together.jolla.com/question/59625/downmix-to-mono-with-headphones/19:24
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the_mgtso how do I enable satellite mode in maps?19:45
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cvp_Tegu, join #sailfishos maybe there can help you19:49
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ariselhmm.. is there a btrfs dump of the internal filesystem available? Mine crashed beyond rescue :(19:50
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ariselanyone with linux skills and willing to provide me with the jolla factory subvolumes here?20:06
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Morpog_PCarisel, ping coderus20:22
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ariselcoderus: *ping* :)20:23
ariselMorpog_PC: ty :)20:23
phlixiHi20:27
pawky|2coderus: the "iwpriv wlan0 setMCBCFilter 1" doesn't make alien dalvik see multicast stuff... any other tip? :-)20:27
phlixiany ideas how i get a pdf from my jolla on to a nexus?20:27
phlixi...without email :D20:27
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pawky|2phlixi: bluetooth?20:28
pawky|2I use it all the time...20:28
phlixiyeah, sounds good pawky|2: and how do i do that?20:28
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pawky|2phlixi: this split second I have no pdf files or similar... its a super clean phone...20:28
pawky|2but use the share thingy..20:29
pawky|2that share icon, and chose from there..20:29
phlixiwhere am i supposed to look for that share button?20:29
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secPull down?20:30
phlixifrom where?20:31
phlixiwithin filebrowser i can view hex, but not share ;)20:31
secLol.20:31
phlixiok, never mind20:31
phlixi:)20:31
phlixiwithin "documents" :-)20:31
secSadly, I am in the same boat as pawky|2, super clean phone right now.20:31
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pawky|2phlixi: or maybe file browser... share?20:32
phlixithis is where i looked at first, from file browser there is no "share", but from within "documents" there is share...20:33
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pawky|2phlixi: then share using documents20:34
phlixiyep, already figured that out [2014-10-23 22:31:31] <phlixi> ok, never mind [2014-10-23 22:31:38] <phlixi> within "documents" :-)20:35
phlixi:)20:35
phlixithanks pawky|220:35
pawky|2phlixi: your welcome happy sailing20:35
pawky|2anyone expert on iwpriv in here today? :-)20:35
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phlixiunfirtunately i even do not know what iwpriv might be...20:37
phlixisorry20:37
pawky|2phlixi: soon you will know... happy hacking ;-)20:37
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phlixifinally, pairing worked and file is transmitting, wow that is slow...20:39
pawky|2phlixi: shouldnt be...20:39
pawky|2maybe depending on the other phone.20:39
phlixii dont mind, if it takes a minute to transfer 10mb.. i will be able to read the pdf tomorrow on the bus ;)20:39
pawky|2phlixi: thats the spirit! I presume its the Jolla manual you are downloading ;-)20:40
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phlixiactually its something the channel might tell is straight from satan ;)20:40
pawky|2phlixi: oh now... windows20:41
phlixioffice open xml spreadsheetML documentation20:41
phlixieven worse^^20:41
pawky|2poor sod...20:41
phlixibut i have to admit, that the documentations is good (for my needs..)20:41
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phlixialready read a few pages on the jolla, but thats not exactly great to read pdfs on the jolla... tomorrow i will carry the tablet^^20:43
pawky|2phlixi: never touch windows things...20:43
pawky|2just use libreoffice20:43
phlixipawky|2: thats what i do for a living20:43
pawky|2be free20:43
phlixi...and thats the reason i have a jolla20:43
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pawky|2phlixi: you can always stop... as I did.... turn your back to windows and be free and happy20:44
pawky|2its scary, but doable...20:44
phlixi(and its predecessors)20:44
pawky|2but shhhhh.. don't tell anyone else I was a Windows consultant in the old days... ;-)20:44
phlixiwell, our product is a windows software, that would be the end of the busines to abandon windows20:45
pawky|2sounds odd.. your a windows guy, thats why you use linux phones?...20:45
phlixibecause od "<pawky|2> be free" not because of windows20:45
phlixiof*20:45
secI happen to know a few people working on WinPhone who despise it.20:45
pawky|2phlixi: on the contrary.. thats when things start working... on the other hand, consultants dont earn much of working software do they?20:46
pawky|2if i will ever be a consultant again, i will of course choose windows and have lots of work ever after..20:46
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pawky|2and I love the simple solution to everything "try to reboot your machine" mohhahahahaha20:46
pawky|2well.. maybe we got a bit off topic...20:47
niuranSimple and effective...sometimes20:47
pawky|2niuran: ever wondered why?20:48
phlixipawky|2: we do software and sell and support it. and the business runs windows and office... thats actually not a matter of debate... (ok, some potential clients would prefer web clients, but thats still not productive as native "apps")20:48
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pawky|2phlixi: well, as you are selling support, of course windows is the preferd OS :-P20:48
pawky|2muchos dinneros20:48
niurandinero, in singular ;)20:49
phlixii guess it is unprofessional if you do not sell support to your products if you are doing b2b20:49
pawky|2I believe the worst thing I ever did when being a consultant, when a company wanted better security, was throwing out windows and put in linux everywhere... in 15 years, i have only had like 100 consultancy hours... :-(20:50
phlixiits just cheaper for the client to have a pro explaining everything to you then spending weeks to figure out for your self20:50
pawky|2the shit just works...20:50
pawky|2i believe its even less... than 10020:50
sec<pawky|2> the shit just works...20:51
secI disagree. A lot more things *just work*.20:51
phlixi...and i hate it when the clients use windows on server side, because it just gives trouble (allthough its paid, of course) the ones running *nix servers i like more, there are fewer problems... i prefer to work on the software, than debugging windows crap^^20:51
stephgsec: we all have to do things that we don't like doing20:51
pawky|2phlixi: I believe professionality would be to make software intuitive and non buggy so nearly no support is needed... but that just me :-)20:51
stephgsec: pawky|2 you've both clearly never met 10gen then20:52
* stephg jumps out the window20:52
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secWho's 10gen?20:52
pawky|2stephg: nope.. who might that be?20:52
secSounds like an interesting fellow20:52
ariselpawky|2: noone wants to pay, specify or wait for actually good-working software..20:52
pawky|2or what20:52
phlixipawky|2: that might be a thing for stuff you sell on an appstore for .79, but not for special software20:52
stephgjust having a bad evening (and I'm fighting their software)20:52
pawky|2stephg: need help?20:52
stephg(which I both don't want to be doing but must, and if their software were bug free I wouldn't be)20:52
stephgjust struck a chord is all20:53
pawky|2stephg: i know what you mean..... well windows is all good.... probably....  for some... :-)20:53
stephg:)20:53
pawky|210gen... mongoDB?20:54
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stephgohyeah20:54
pawky|2:-)20:54
secDespite the tons of examples and docs, mod_rewrite is voodoo. Damned cool voodoo, but still voodoo. -- Brian Moore (bem@news.cmc.net)20:55
secThat's from apache's official documentation on mod_rewrite.20:55
phlixiif someone claims that his software has no bug, its a scam, or super expensive proven stuff... in most cases both is not the right solution...20:55
secehe he he20:55
pawky|2sec: just go for Jimi Hendrix.... Woodo Child.. and you will see the light...20:55
pawky|2beer goes with it..20:55
pawky|2phlixi: well... just sell the bug as a feature... like Microsoft :-)20:56
pawky|2they have no bugs, but tons of great features..20:56
pawky|2(I am still fishing for an iwpriv expert. Anyone around? :-)20:56
stephgs/beer/malbec/ and that's about right20:56
pawky|2whats that?20:57
stephgred wine20:58
stephg:)20:58
pawky|2oh, great idea20:58
pawky|2phlixi: well, with open source and standard software you eliminate it as much as possible, you have hundreds of thousands if not millions of people checking the softy out and contributing, compared to Microsofts development team21:00
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* stephg gives up21:02
stephgright bed time, good night folks, see y'all in the morning21:02
pawky|2stephg: how sad..21:02
pawky|2stephg: ahh.. just for the day.. thats the spirit! :-)21:02
stephg"exception: collection's metadata is undergoing changes. Please try again."21:03
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stephg^^ time to call it a night :)21:03
pawky|2stephg: i presume iwpriv isnt your coup of tea right?21:03
stephgsadly no21:03
pawky|2seems to be no ones...21:03
pawky|2well... i will continue to fish...21:03
stephgpawky|2: what are yoyu trying to do21:03
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pawky|2getting the phone to accept multicast inbound21:04
stephgoh21:04
stephgalso, ow21:04
stephgall the kernel support is there?21:04
pawky|2so I have been told...21:05
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pawky|2i got this setMCBCFilter 121:05
* stephg runs to google21:05
pawky|2but that didnt do the trick :-(21:05
pawky|2been there done that ;-)21:05
stephgwell the first result is a SailfishDevel mail which I'm guessing is you, so clearly not ;)21:06
stephgdid it not do the trick in a helpful way?21:06
pawky|2nope... I have just downloaded wireshark to have a look...21:06
stephgno errors tho? no nothing?21:06
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pawky|2nope... i mean i can set the flag.... but the app doesnt receive any multicast or SPP messages21:07
stephgwell wireshark or tcpdump is the next step21:08
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stephgsee if they're actually hitting the interface21:08
pawky|2SSP...21:08
stephgif they're not... well then you have a bunch of work to do :(21:08
pawky|2i think they did...21:08
stephgtcpdump iirc is in mer-tools21:08
pawky|2I am setting this up now to have another llook21:08
pawky|2well.. where is the tcpdump, couldnt find it with pkcon or warehouse21:09
stephgno need for wireshark (which last time I installed it depended on openssl and then broke my dev mode)21:09
stephgdo you have mer-tools enabled21:09
pawky|2obviously not... is that under development?21:09
pawky|2was quite a while sinse last time..21:09
stephgssu ar mer-tools && ssu ur && pkcon refresh && pkcon install tcpdump21:10
stephgmer-tools is where strace, gdb, tcpdump etc. are21:10
pawky|2:-)21:10
pawky|2it does some refreshing now21:10
stephg:)21:10
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pawky|2maybe one should super reset once phone a bit more often just to keep the skills ;-)21:11
stephganyway, much much better to take a tcpdump of the whole lot to, say, your sdcard then look at it with wireshark on a computer21:11
stephghehe21:11
stephganyway21:11
stephgI really do run. good luck and see you in the morning21:11
pawky|2phlixi: sorry for ranting against windows by the way...21:11
phlixino problem21:11
pawky|2stephg: yeah thanks21:12
pawky|2phlixi: whats the software doing? :-)21:12
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phlixii do not find windows sympatic, neither microsoft. but i come over the point to admit (years ago...) that they make actually good software and there is (at least at the moment) no way to ignore them when doing business in our segment21:13
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pawky|2phlixi: you are right, to be honest.... "the more people complain about OSes or Softwares, the less they usually know about it" The more you get to know, the more you respect it, and understand it and the people working with it21:14
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pawky|2phlixi: so I was being a dork in a way.phlixi: ..21:15
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pawky|2I still think its fun though that the solution to all problems is "reboot" i here it every day every time ;-)21:16
phlixiactually i reboot my clients only after patchdays sometimes, other than that there is not much rebooting21:17
pawky|2phlixi:  :-)21:17
phlixibut i will rant and curse a lot tomorrow in the office once i will actually try to write xlsx (or rather xlsm) files with embedded vba21:18
pawky|2for those who might know about Jolla and ssdp... wlan0 at least sees the packages  "23:17:55.783598 IP 10.0.0.1.64321 > 239.255.255.250.ssdp: UDP, length 454" now how do I get an android app to see it?21:19
pawky|2phlixi: sounds complex...21:19
pawky|2Its at these times it feels nice and safe to have a tiny linux machine in your pocket... just in case...  ;-)21:19
phlixidont know, i will see into the documentation tomrrow, but all i found so far are libraries to write xls[xm], but none of them can embedd vba, and only a few charts... a lot have even truble to put in formatted text... in the end i fear we will have to write it by hand...21:21
pawky|2perl is your friend  :-D21:21
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phlixinever tried to do something in pearl from delphi, actually, do not remeber doing something in perl at all^^21:22
pawky|2phlixi: use the force luke.... turn to the dark side....21:23
phlixii am pretty deep into the dark side i think^^21:23
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pawky|2LOL21:23
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phlixiindeed, looks promising http://search.cpan.org/~jmcnamara/Excel-Writer-XLSX/lib/Excel/Writer/XLSX/Examples.pm#Example:_macros.pl ;)21:25
pawky|2I told you soo...21:26
phlixiwe will see... not the right time to do work now :D21:26
pawky|2:-)21:26
phlixii would prefer doing this native in delphi^^21:26
pawky|2perl can solve your problems... perl will solve aaaaall your problems21:26
phlixito harden my bad image, i solve a lot problems in php :D21:27
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pawky|2half way there then :-)21:28
pawky|2in perl you become the bug.... ;-)21:28
pawky|2if you do it wrong, the sfotware will do weird stuff.. if right... it just works21:28
secPerl: Where people faceplant their keyboards to write code.21:29
phlixithat: https://jeena.net/images/2012/php-the-good-parts.jpeg is 1.) true and 2.) actually important... :-) you can install your software everywhere ;)21:29
pawky|2LOL21:29
pawky|2like perl... :-)21:30
pawky|2you have perl in your jolla...21:30
pawky|2you could probably solve your current problem on the phone ;-)21:30
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phlixievery f*cking cheap webspace offers php...21:31
pawky|2Even Catalyst is ported to Jolla21:31
pawky|2and perl as well...21:31
pawky|2never heard any who don't21:31
phlixinaaa21:31
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secWho the hell gets web *hosting* instead of a cheap vps these days?21:32
phlixifor example people who do not want to take care of the servers21:33
* sec hands out knives to everyone21:33
phlixialrady patched poodle?21:33
secAs soon as you see one, you know what to do21:33
phlixiits nice to know that there are people 265/24 monitoring that shit21:33
phlixi365 :D21:33
phlixi(i hope^^)21:34
* pawky|2 who thought we couldn't get more of topic...21:34
phlixiits still about something computery stuff...21:34
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phlixibut we could stop here and ask as last line if someone knows somethig about iwpriv, thus maybe someone disrupting the idling actually knows something about iwpriv21:36
phlixisomeone knows something about  iwpriv?21:36
phlixi:D21:36
phlixign8 ;)21:36
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pawky|2LOL21:39
pawky|2"come fishy fishy..... here little fishy"....  no luck fishing today... :-(21:40
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pawky|2anyone knowing why I cannot modify the setMCBCFilter?  no matter what i set it to, its always 1 :-(21:41
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ariselpawky|2: i could maybe elp if my phone would be working, but I'm still lacking my root filesystem :)21:42
ariselpawky|2: so no debuggin on the device here :(21:42
pawky|2arisel: how come?21:42
pawky|2how did you loose your root system?21:43
ariselpawky|2: btrfs just crashed. With no chance to recover..21:43
pawky|2huh.. :-(21:43
ariselpawky|2: *nods*21:43
pawky|2so.. have you done a super reset like me?21:43
pawky|2if you need to, I would skip using the one on the phone and go directly for the mmcblk0p28 that has 10.0.8.1921:44
ariselpawky|2: it's crashed above that. the factory reset copys from one btrfs subvolume to another, the whole filesystem which is on mmcblk0p28 is totally broken.21:44
pawky|2arisel: you can just write it over... like i did today21:45
pawky|2with a fresh one..21:45
ariselpawky|2: i'm just missing a fresh one.21:45
ariselpawky|2: do you have one?21:45
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