#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2014-11-04

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nanderWorking last.fm scrobbling :)00:23
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dunphttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsGTXLnmKs#t=18600:26
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vesperNZhi04:12
vesperNZhas anyone had a problem when creating a custom ambience that when the phone is reset the ambience isn't saved?04:14
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tbrpawky|2: the wonderful world of contracts, even though probably from the same code, the driver was licensed to jolla as closed source and they then used this driver for certification. which pretty much means even though they hate it, they are stuck with it.05:24
tbrpawky|2: nothing prevents you or anyone else for that matter, to build the open source driver and use that. aside maybe from a questionable certification, but that's not a real stopper unless you start enabling things that violate certification.05:26
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tbrpawky|2: I personally don't know where the sources can be found. I only know they exist. Maybe Stskeeps knows and could point them out? Otherwise it's elbow grease and searching.05:29
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Stskeepshttps://github.com/djselbeck/sailfishos_kernel_jolla_msm8930 afaik05:34
Stskeepsdidn't test05:34
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pp_wlan driver05:46
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pp_ah, that one has it05:48
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pp_coworker has needed that, will tell him (binary one won't load if you change some config_ flags, apparently)05:50
Stskeepsymmv05:51
Stskeeps:P05:51
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tbrpp_: there are ways™ to make the binary one load, one might be to just force modprobe06:05
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pp_yah, told him to try -f but dunno if he did :-)06:10
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Pawkytbr: I have found the sources, binary and config files, what I am pondering about is how to test it without totally bricking the phone. in the open source version there is 1 .bin file but looking upon the phone it has 3 under persist, which makes me a tiny bit confused... :-/06:12
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Pawkytbr: I am searching google at best, but haven't yet found any suggestions on how to...06:14
tbrPawky: it's unlikely to be necessary, but keep a backup and be prepared to factory reset through recovery.06:14
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tbrPawky: to test it I'd actually compile against the current kernel and then just rmmod the closed module and modprobe the new one.06:15
Pawkytbr: thanks for all valuable input so far. Do you have any idea why there are naturally 3 bin files under /persist ?06:16
tbrworst case that can happen is that the kernel panics. more likely wifi fails to start for some reason06:16
tbrPawky: I haven't looked at that, so I don't know which files you are speaking about.06:16
Pawkytbr: true... Wish I had it all set up for kernel compiling, but at the moment thats not the case...06:17
tbrthere might be device specific calibration files or such06:17
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tbrPawky: can't help you there, but it should be easy, e.g. take the SDK06:17
Pawkytbr: my hopes still lays in someone else already having done this :-)06:17
tbrStskeeps: btw, U9 source drop at your convenience please06:17
tbrPawky: now you're being lazy and you don't want to learn anything that could get you a job in the future?06:18
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Pawkytbr: ha ha... that is not true.... I am just avoiding expaning my project to also include kernel compilation as the only part I would like to get out of it is to clear one bit...  and I do have a job already06:19
Pawkya few to be honest..06:19
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tbrPawky: ah, so you'd prefer to have others do your work for you, I see.06:21
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Pawkylike perl, there is no point reinventing the wheel, if someone already have done this, it is far smarter to use this than doing it all again.06:21
Pawkytbr: you have a very synical way of looking upon things my  friend...06:21
Stskeepsor realistic..06:22
tbrrealistic06:22
* tbr high fives Stskeeps 06:22
PawkyStskeeps: To have several people doing the same things will much more slow down any project and process making jolla competitive to other phones.06:22
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PawkyI am working with other things, and incorporating kernel compilation is doable, but will steal a lot of time IF SOMEONE ELSE already has done it.06:23
tbrPawky: if there's one thing I've learned in the open source world, then it's that if you want to modify things and go into details, then asking for ready baked binaries is never going to work06:23
PawkyI am anot putting forward asking someone else TO DO IT, i am asking if its done.06:23
tbrPawky: plenty of people have compiled the kernel for jolla, but probably none of them have done what you want06:23
tbrthe sailfish sdk should make a simple kernel rebuild pretty trivial06:24
Pawkytbr: well, my experience, which probably outweights yours, if you didn't start in the early eighties beg to differ.06:24
PawkyWell, it might be so, but in my oppinion the very way to figure out if it has been done is by other means to also ask in here.06:25
PawkyYour ideology of letting every one having to do the same things as others is very counter productive.06:26
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tbryes, and in the last few weeks nobody has said here that they did. By any stretch that's longer than figuring out how to do it06:27
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tbrI strongly disagree with your last statement06:27
tbropen source is a lot about people doing similar, often even exactly the same things06:27
Pawkytbr: and how many people have you tought computer science?06:27
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tbrPawky: I don't see how this is related to this argument06:28
Pawkytbr: well, that sounds like sheer stupidity. I do hope the whole open source part is about sharing knowledge and achievements06:28
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tbrPawky: you're increasingly going ad hominem. I'd recommend to avoid that.06:29
Pawkytbr: well, it is a bit of topic yes...06:30
tbralso to pick on your unrelated argument of teaching/learning CS. In that area it is usually mainly about people repeating individually what has been done before, just for the learning experience.06:30
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Pawkytbr: Well, as I see it, you achieve the greater good by letting people work on different parts of a project not all doing the same. Translated, I am working upon getting something else fixed, that leans on work of others06:32
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tbryes, you're making a good point for my side of the argument. you want to work on the different part of wifi module, specifically that one bit. this builds on the kernel, the module, the sources. Building those is perpendicular to this point.06:35
Pawkytbr: I am just so tired upon this very idea, "if you want to learn you have to figure it out the very same hard way I did", it's been around since the 80's but seing much more productiveness, I and many others have abandoned this ancient ideology many years ago. To the contrary I believ everybody contributes in their own way, and this should be encouraged.06:35
Pawkytbr: No, I don't want to work on it, I just want a 1 to be 0 thats all, If I knew which byte I would have patched it in an instant. But as of today I don't06:36
PawkyMy main project is in a different field, and hold back by the sheer stupidity of not being able to change what normally could be changed.06:36
tbrPawky: I didn't tell you to write a compiler and your own kernel from scratch, did I?06:36
Pawkytbr: well, you are not that far of, when telling me to go recompiling the kernel, which I of course might have to do in the end, but I would rather have a check first to see if someone else already has done it before starting up this project with all its obstacles...06:37
tbreverything has a varying barrier of entry. it has been lowering across the board in open source. it will never reach zero though. There will always be a level of inconvenience with learning something new along the way.06:38
tbrPawky: you implied that you know about CS teaching. likening those two things disqualifies you, pretty much.06:38
tbrif you would have started, you'd have probably been surprised how easy it was. probably you'd have results in less time that you've spent discussing it.06:39
Pawkytbr: well, history probably begs to differ, but then again, who am I to know how many people you have tought computer science...06:39
tbrthat's the lowered barriers of entry I mentioned.06:39
tbrPawky: you really like the "teach CS" argument, don't you? I find it rather unfitting.06:40
Pawkytbr: it might be easy, but its a different project, that might come with different obstacles. If all I need is a precompiled wlan driver, seeing if it already exists in its compiled state far outweighs your thoughts about learning ideology06:41
tbrok, but enough of aimless discussion. I have some actual results to achive. Oh and I have a compiler and I'm not afraid to use it in the process!06:41
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Pawkytbr: Would I have one already prepared, I would compile it as well, that is not the case at the moment. It probably will be when I have time for it, unless someone with a precompiled driver suddenly steps forward... Maybe one day I will figure out why so many people have a condesending and sarcastic aproach to other people trying to achieve the greater good.06:43
Pawkytbr: Beyond this I am actually quite thankfull for your hints and suggestions so far, when it comes to finding a solution that is... :-)06:44
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Pawkytbr:so , no matter our slightly different ponit of views, thank you for your time and knowledge on the subject06:51
tbryou're welcome06:52
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kimmolicalling someone with knowledge about udev and ENV{SYSTEMD_USER_WANTS} ...07:57
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norayrhello,08:13
norayrthis post (https://together.jolla.com/question/49612/android-networking-ptp-picture-transfer-protocol-canon-eos-remote/) says: "Some people managed to get it to on by reinstalling android support on wifi"08:13
norayrwhat does it mean "reinstall android support on wifi"?08:13
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meklunorayr: maybe this? uninstalling android support, turning on wifi, installing android support08:39
mekluseems pretty weird to be honest08:39
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norayrmeklu: yeah, I have no other networking rather than wifi, so I assume it's not that.08:55
norayrI have also tried script which makes changes in sqllight settings but it didn't help.08:55
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mekluprobably not that then08:57
mekluI don't have any suitable hardware to try any of that out myself :<08:58
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GreatEmeraldstephg: Aha, the non-standard sample rate bug has already been reported: https://together.jolla.com/question/30533/mediaplayer-fails-with-low-samplerates/11:15
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Pawkytbr: Beyond this I am actually quite norayr: I believe your problem is the same as the very one I am trying to solve11:19
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Pawkytbr: sorry... bad pasting ;-)11:19
TeguGreatEmerald: I've also noticed it. playing the file in the default browser works, though. but it's not as convenient11:19
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Pawkynorayr: The very reason to this is probabaly due to your app is using multicast to identify your peripherals, but as multicasting is turned of in the wlan driver you will be out of luck. Reinstalling Android will not fix it..11:20
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norayrpawky: cool.11:22
Pawkynorayr: yes....and no... :-/11:22
norayrpawky: have you seen this? https://together.jolla.com/question/51695/bug-android-apps-connection-problems-with-wlan/#post-id-5379111:23
norayrbut it didn't work for me.11:23
Pawkynorayr: am I assuming correctly you cannot get a specific program to communicate with your program, or you cannot use wifi at all in  the android environment?11:24
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norayrno I can use wifi, I mean firefox connects to network, but EOS Remote software does not see my canon 6d via wifi.11:25
norayrI have no idea how it tries to connect.11:25
Pawkynorayr: Then the last link you sant makes no difference...11:25
stephgGreatEmerald oh cool11:26
norayrokay, pity.11:26
Pawkythere is a theoretical way to actually change the setting for Multicast and Broadcast messages sent and received through the WIFI, but  it is (stupidly) hard coded in disabled state in the driver11:26
norayrSailfish driver?11:27
norayrokay.11:27
Pawkylistening in on your wlan driver with tcpdump will clearly show you are receiving multicast ssdp signals, but thats it..11:27
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Pawkydoing a "iwpriv wlan0" you willl  find setMCBCFilter 1, if this one would have been 0 it will all work.11:28
norayrthen I need to try to connect to my camera when the camera is not access point, but both devices are connected to some access point.11:28
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Pawkythis is the very thing I have bin bitching about with tbr earlier this morning, and the only solution as of speaking will be to recompile the wlan driver11:28
norayrwhich source is not available I assume?11:29
Pawkynorayr: no... its not about your camera being an AP.11:29
norayrIndeed. It still needs broadcast requests to identify the camera.11:29
Pawkythe idea is,beyond your camera beinb an AP, on this little happy wifi net, you will be able to find other peripherals as well, and this is done using ssdp11:29
Pawky(multicast)11:30
norayrI see.11:30
Pawkyand probably broadcast..11:30
PawkyI have writtne perl scripts that will communicat with a device regardless of the  multicast stuff.11:31
norayrwhich device do you use?11:31
Pawkybut its just for pure testing purposes in a shell environment.11:31
Pawkywell, I am using a Sony DSC-QX10, but I believe your brand probably use the same way to communicate.11:32
Pawkyso, what I do to at least play around a bit with the unit using perl, is to manually connect to the device creating a wlan connection.11:32
norayrit's interesting to me, which protocol it uses on application layer.11:32
Pawkyhttp11:33
Pawky:-)11:33
Pawkyjson :-D11:33
norayris it documented or you found it out?11:33
Pawkyvery simple to communicate with the device.11:33
Pawkyyes..11:33
Pawkyits documented11:33
Pawkysearch SonyAPI11:33
norayrokay, I am searching canon api (:11:34
Pawkyit will be there for sure.11:34
Pawkyso, if you set it up manually (the wifi) the unit will certainly work as a DHCP server giving you an IP.11:34
Pawkyfrom there you just communicat using curl or wget in shell11:35
Pawkyquite fun to be honest..11:35
norayr(:11:35
PawkyYou will enter deep water though, when wanting to view a live preview feed. When it comes to Sony, it uses a stream of JPEG pictures without any container.11:36
Pawkymplayer could happily view this  but I haven't gotten gstreamer to do this on the phone as of yet.11:36
norayrI just need to transfer photos actually, without having to reboot the phone and insert sd card.11:36
PawkyInstead of reinventing the wheel though, I am at the moment trying to make the very MCBCFilter flag actually work.11:36
Pawkythen we can use android software at first to at least play around a bit11:37
norayrThat would be cool.11:37
Pawkyhmm... that sounds like a quite simple perl script for your phone.11:37
Teguwhyy, oh whyy the SD card slot is behind the battery ;_;11:37
Pawkyad to it that shell cmd software to run scripts from gui and your home safe :-D11:37
norayr(:11:38
Pawkyyes, but as of speaking I will have to recompile the whole damn kernel, and i haven't even any environment set up for this as of speaking.11:38
Nicd-Tegu: on what device?11:38
Pawkyif however we could find someone who already compiled it, then we could just replace the wlan driver...11:38
pdanekguys, just 20 minutes left!11:40
pdanekyou should be hitting F5 by now already11:40
TeguNicd-: eeh, jolla, but forgot that it actually isn't :D just remembered so because of the mentioned reboot and sdcard. nevermind11:41
Nicd-pdanek: for what?11:41
Tegupdanek: ?11:41
stephg^^ this11:41
Tegu~~~~~~~~~11:41
pdanekNicd: TOHKBD on Kickstarter :D11:41
Pawkynorayr: there are some binaries found here https://www.codeaurora.org/projects/all-active-projects/msm-wlan11:41
Nicd-url?11:41
stephgaha11:41
Pawkynorayr: and the source seems to be there, but implementing it in the current jolla version might be a bit of a challenge.11:41
Nicd-pdanek: source?11:42
Nicd-ahh apparently http://funkyotherhalf.com/11:42
Nicd-there's a countdown11:42
Pawkynorayr: http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/sdk_homepage11:43
fennekkihmmm11:43
fennekkiI kinda want a tohkbd11:43
fennekkibut I don't have money11:43
fennekkioh well11:43
Jopeit looks exciting, but I want to see the product before I pay that much money :-)11:43
fennekkiI guess I'll survive11:43
Teguon that canon page: "Additional Notes on this release \n 1.1 Built-in Wi-Fi transmitter of EOS 6D is not supported."11:44
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PawkyTegu: meaning?11:46
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PawkyI believe its probably a quite simple task to just use tcpdump on a unit connected to your camera with a working app and figure out what to send/receive...11:49
TeguPawky: well, just assumed that the built-in wifi was used when 6D was mentioned. so dunno, I'll be quiet for now :D11:49
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PawkyTegu: well, i do hope his camera does have wifi, or the whole discussion is a bit poinless... ;-)11:51
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norayrpawky: may be you need to create a ticket or request to jolla so that in some update of the os image it'll be fixed.11:57
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Pawkynorayr: no, they have signed some agreement somewhere limiting them to  do anything with the current driver11:58
* stephg has his card at the ready11:59
Pawkyso, if you take a look under /persistent you will find some config file where you theoretically could change this filter option, but the driver ignors this part... :-(12:00
Nicd-https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla12:00
Nicd-it's alive12:00
pdanekaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa12:00
Sail0rhmpf cc onl12:02
Sail0ry12:02
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stephgpledged12:03
cb400fpledgers went from 19 -> 26 in about two minutes ;-)12:04
pdanekwait12:04
pdanekso I can buy 100 EUR one12:04
stephgif you hurry12:04
pdanekand get signature edication in custom colors because I bought rev1?12:04
Sail0rnope12:04
pdanekand how?12:04
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pdanekTOHKBD-rev1 ownersIf you bought a TOHKBD rev1 straight from  Dirk (not second hand), you are a hero and the success of this and other  projects is for a large part thanks to you! Your faith and support will  not go unnoticed! If you order a TOHKBD2 now, you will additionally get  a SolarTOH (colour of your choosing), a BreadboardTOH kit or a free  upgrade to Signature Edition! 12:05
Sail0ryou must buy signature edition to get signature edition12:05
Sail0rah cool12:05
Nicd-oooh the amount of backers is rising12:05
Sail0rdid not read that12:05
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pdanekYou are now an official backer of TOHKBD — The Other Half Keyboard for your Jolla. Time to tell the world about it!12:07
pdanekamazing12:07
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pdanekI'm gonna inform #blackberry12:08
VDVsxLOL12:09
Nicd-10 % already backed12:09
Jopenice12:09
Stskeeps6,2k12:09
pdanekThis is like when Jolla was announced.12:10
pdanek:D12:10
pp_Maybe I'll wait to see if they osbourne their product at slush, and then order :-)12:11
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pdanekSlush is when?12:17
pdanekthe kickstarter campaign is 29 more days12:18
pdanekI guess after this period, Dirkvl will start ordering pieces and there won't be a chance to additionally order anymore12:18
Stskeeps9,76812:18
stephgF5! F5!12:19
Jopegoing up.. cool stuff12:20
pdanekAlmost 20% pledged.12:20
pdanekBut the initial wave is gone, not it will be harder.12:21
pdaneknow*12:21
pdanekNow the word needs to spread. :D12:21
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pp_18-19th of this month12:25
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pdanekoh12:27
pdanekit all makes sense12:27
pdanekthis Jolla voucher campaign was extneded by 10th because of TOHKBD, don't you think?12:27
pdanekbecause clearly, TOHKBD is reason why some people will finally purchase Jolla12:28
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GreatEmeraldHuh, apparently there's also a solar panel for a TOH, that's a cool idea12:30
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GreatEmeraldHm, so systemd-analyze blame is telling me that it takes 16 seconds for mount-sd@mmcblk1. That's a lot of time to mount an SD card...12:38
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Milo-"To every backer that orders a fully assembled TOHKBD, Jolla gives a 100E discount coupon!" I wonder if these vouchers will stack :)12:38
stephgMilo-: ha12:40
Nicd-hmm... so that means it's a free keyboard12:40
Nicd-nice!12:40
pdanekcoupons from current campaign are not so hard to get12:41
pdanekso not exactly free keyboard12:41
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GreatEmeraldMilo-: Doesn't the current campaign end this week? The kickstarter ends in a month12:41
KotHgreetings earthlings! i bring popcorn and chocolate!12:41
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fluxgreatemerald, and hopefully the vouchers are valid at least till the keyboards are shipped12:43
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Tegu30% breached12:45
tbrPawky: I'm not sure what your point is. The problem at hand is, that the driver can't be made to do what you want at run time (from what you say), but there might be a way to modify it to do what you want. The established way in the open source community is, if nobody else has tackled it yet, to simply do it. If necessary with the help of others in the community.12:45
GreatEmeraldAnd also you probably won't get an extra TOH from the kickstarter vouchers12:45
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GreatEmeraldHm, there's no man and less in the default repositories?12:48
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stephgGreatEmerald: no12:50
stephgno man anywhere I believe12:50
stephgless is in mer-tools: ssu ar mer-tools && ssu ur && pkcon refresh && pkcon install less12:50
GreatEmeraldOK12:51
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GreatEmeraldI don't suppose there's any man page for ssu itself anywhere?12:55
stephghttp://wiki.maemo.org/Seamless_Software_Update ?12:55
stephgnot particularly helpful12:56
stephghttps://github.com/nemomobile/ssu probably more useful12:56
Jopenot useful at all for jolla12:56
Jopeyes12:56
Jopethe nemo one is more useful12:56
sledgesjust backed yoohoo!! Know at least two crazy hwkbd fans who are now drooling over (the not yet existing) keyboard:)))12:57
stephgit would be very cool if the keyboard could get to 50% in the first hour12:57
stephgbut it's just going to miss it by the looks of it :(12:57
Jopealmost 20k is not too shabby imo :-)12:59
stephghehe absolutely yes it's great, I just like round numbers ;)12:59
stephg20s to get over 20k!12:59
Tegu20k broken13:00
Jopebam13:00
Jope20,24413:00
stephghehe13:00
sledgeskickstarter.com should have a rock solid DDoS protection13:01
sledges:)13:01
TeguI guess there are far heavier projects than this13:01
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Teguheavier to the servers, that is13:02
sledgesis what i meant as well13:02
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Jopeyes13:02
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pp_supermega early birds are gone :(13:04
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GreatEmeraldsledges: More like a ton of servers13:06
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r0kk3rzthey probably run through cloudfire or something13:09
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sledgesyeap13:13
GreatEmeraldSpeaking of keyboards, is it possible to connect a USB keyboard via the micro USB slot?13:13
Nicd-GreatEmerald: no, there's no USB host mode13:13
tbrGreatEmerald: if someone gets around to beat the kernel into submission13:13
tbrdevice supports simple host mode, but the kernel needs lots of love13:14
GreatEmeraldWhat sort? Enabling certain options, or something more?13:16
pdanekBluetooth keyboard should work, right?13:17
Teguit does, I've tried. the support came in some update13:18
dr_gogeta86hi tbr13:18
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dr_gogeta86iekku,13:19
tbrGreatEmerald: the kernel has a full fledged USB-OTG driver, but as neither ID pin nor VBUS out seem to be possible, it won't work as such. it needs to be lobotomized to just flip into host mode after being poked through sysfs13:21
iekkudr_gogeta86, ahoy?13:21
dr_gogeta86anyone knows if digitizer crack require complete lcd replace ?13:21
dr_gogeta86still works13:21
iekkudr_gogeta86, i don't know, but i will ask13:22
dr_gogeta86tnx13:22
tbrGreatEmerald: another thing is bring-your-own-5V, but that's easy13:26
Pawkytbr: I am not sure what part of my writings seems pointless. I have only pointed out the current limits of the wlan driver currently ignores the config parameters. It's not that it cannot do it, uts just commented out in the source code. This due to some licensing agreements. I know that if no one else has fixed it, do it yourself, and when having the possibility knowledge and time I will.13:26
PawkyMy hopes still lay in others having compiled it already, if so I can continue on my path getting Sony peripherals to work for Jolla.13:27
GreatEmeraldtbr: Hm, why isn't it possible to use the ID pin?13:28
tbrGreatEmerald: because it's physically not connected13:28
GreatEmeraldAh, I see.13:29
tbrsame for the charge pump apparently13:29
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PawkyGreatEmerald: Why not use a bluetooth keyboard, like I do? :-)13:29
TeguI wonder why it's not13:29
iekkudr_gogeta86, it seems that answer is yes :/13:30
iekkudr_gogeta86, not available separately13:30
tbrTegu: IIRC board design constraints. board was crammed and getting stuff routed around not possible13:30
dr_gogeta86how much another new jolla with discount code ?13:30
Tegutbr: ah, okay. pity :/13:31
KotHtbr: i should have taken one of those accelerometer dataloggers with me to ELCE. there you chould have seen a cramped board :)13:31
GreatEmeraldPawky: Well, I'm fairly fine with the on-sceen one. This was just a question my friend asked me :)13:32
tbrKotH: :)13:32
PawkyHas nobody ever thought about smacking two jollas together back to back and interconnect them somehow? :-)13:33
Pawkywould be kind of cool...13:33
Tegusounds like tamagotchi13:33
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iekkudr_gogeta86, 24913:33
dr_gogeta86for replace lcd ?13:33
meklujust get a few devices and set up distcc on them and then start cross-compiling gentoo for power13:34
meklusounds about as useful :)13:34
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iekkudr_gogeta86, new jolla with discount. no idea about lcd price13:36
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dr_gogeta86iekku, tnx alot <313:39
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iekkudr_gogeta86, :)13:39
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GreatEmeraldHah, kickraq says the trend for tohkbd  is 1148% of the goal (and it still has only the old $20000 data)13:43
mekluI somehow doubt it'll get quite half a million13:44
meklubut that would be fairly cool to witness nonetheless13:44
SK_workyep13:44
r0kk3rzpoor dirk13:44
SK_workI do think that they don't have enough data to do projection13:45
r0kk3rzhalf funded on the first day is a good sign though13:45
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pdanekThat trend is not applicable, because Jolla and things around it are very community dependent and most of people who wants TOHKBD will buy in first 1-2 days.13:45
pdanekUnless some miracle happens, we can expect very slow raise later on.13:46
SK_workpdanek: well, trand should take care of tbhis13:46
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SK_workmost (if not all) ks projects basically get funded at the first and last days13:46
pp_blah, ok, I'm getting a keyboard too!13:46
SK_workI remember some analysis I did for Ubuntu's Edge13:47
pdanekYes, but TOHKBD requires you to own Jolla.13:47
r0kk3rzor to buy one13:47
r0kk3rzor maybe you want an i2c keyboard for some kind of other project?13:48
clauis there a list of TOH's developed by third parties somewhere?13:52
clauI just want to show the possibilities to someone13:52
pdanekclau: I guess you have to fetch it from talk.maemo.org13:52
pdanekhttp://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5913:53
r0kk3rzclau: possibillities are easy, search for i2c on sparkfun13:54
r0kk3rztheres a whole bunch of sensors and things which you can wire up13:54
clauI know, but I want to show things that were already done13:54
clauand thanks13:55
r0kk3rztheres not much thats already done13:55
r0kk3rzprobably funkyotherhalf is the best place to send them13:55
r0kk3rzhttp://funkyotherhalf.com/?page_id=913:56
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Tegu50%13:57
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GreatEmeraldWith how many things people come up with over i2c, I wonder what would happen if TOHs also had USB or such14:00
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GreatEmeraldWould be interesting if that was the case for a Jolla 214:01
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r0kk3rzi2c is good enough for most things where bandwidth isnt required14:01
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mekluUSB seems like it could be quite finicky14:04
r0kk3rznot to mention that usb isnt really useful for the same kinds of things that i2c is14:06
r0kk3rzand vice versa14:06
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sledgesnearly 30K ohmy :)14:11
lainwir3dstill, a high speed bus would be nice.14:11
lainwir3dI can already imagine an awesome camera otherhalf... :-)14:12
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clauyou can, presumably, build a vertically bigger TOH and connect it to usb14:17
clauintegrate a usb hub too, and provide your own usb connector from the TOH14:17
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tbrwhile you're at it wedge in a battery, you'll need it14:19
fluxwell that would be quite useless, given the low performance of i2c14:19
fluxbut if USB is overkill, a faster SPI connection would be nice.14:19
clauwould it be possible to use the sdcard interface?14:20
fluxit might be possible that it supports SDIO. but then you would lose the external storage, or you would need to reimplement it.14:21
stephgclau: eww imagine having to plug it in...14:21
clau:D14:21
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fluxusb could be useful for some applications though, in particular integrating existing hardware with onboard usb chips.14:26
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fluxlike cameras, microphones, speakers, ..14:26
fluxthey would even have existing drivers. I don't think there is a standard for SPI-driven codecs.14:27
r0kk3rzwould be nice if they had usb otg support for the next phone14:27
nander31 00014:28
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fluxseems to be slowing down, though?14:28
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r0kk3rzwhich is to be expected14:29
Temeanyone have an up-to-date guide for installing google play services on Jolla? http://www.jollatides.com/2014/04/03/updated-installing-google-play-on-jolla/ this one is from April14:30
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r0kk3rzTeme it still works though14:31
Temeactually there are comments from October that they got it working.. but a lot before stating it doesn't work14:31
Temer0kk3rz: ok, maybe i'll give it a shot14:32
TemeGoogle Inbox needs them14:32
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claudid anyone get google push notifications on jolla?14:34
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Sail0rwhen you install google services14:39
Sail0rit seems to work sometimes14:40
kimmolifor me google-talk works just fine without google-play-services-whatever (in the stock integration) only files/photos missing14:40
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lainwir3dhttp://www.kicktraq.com/14:50
lainwir3dtohkbd is in the top ten... and is even first14:51
fluxkicktraq should poll new projects more often ;)14:51
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nander34 000 :)14:55
nanderGoing well :)14:55
nanderMakes me wonder, how many people bought it thinking it would be generic14:55
clauwhat's the meaning of that number?14:55
nanderKeyboard other half kickstarter14:55
Stskeepsclau: eur14:55
nanderhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla14:55
okunander: Well isn't that's their own fault then for not reading the text then?14:55
fluxnander, "for my jolla? must mean my cell phone."14:55
SK_workthere is someone asking in comments saying: can it work with HTC M8 ?14:56
SK_workso ...14:56
fluxreminds me of the legendary? ebay sales of "xbox, box only"14:56
okunander: I really doubt very many people are that stupid there. :)14:56
nanderYou're naive, which is a good thing in this case ;)14:56
nanderThought experiment: try to imagine a person of average IQ14:57
nanderAbout half of all people are even more stupid...14:57
okuyeah, but I don't think all the average Joes are out there on kickstarter pledging everything14:57
SK_worknander: not true14:57
SK_worknander: let's consider people having the average IQ14:58
okuThey're at the local pub telling that government sucks and how they hate their boss ;)14:58
SK_worksince it is the middle of the gaussian curve, there might be a lot of people having this IQ14:58
SK_workand only a few % far below and far above14:58
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nanderI saw it as a real number, not a discrete number14:59
sledgesPSA: sailfishos community meeting @ #mer-meeting . agenda: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/14:59
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TMavicasomeone made a native instagram client15:01
SK_workTMavica: source ?15:01
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TMavicayou mean source code?15:13
TMavicahttps://openrepos.net/content/forgrimm/sailgrande15:14
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tango_ok, possibly stupid question: the gift vouchers for the 100€ rebate on the jolla, can I pass it over to a friend of mine that is looking to buy a jolla?15:40
tango_or is it for me and just me if I want a second jolla?15:40
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matrixxtango_: it's for everyone :)15:41
matrixxtango_: it can be used multiple times15:41
Nicd-yeah, shout it on the streets! :)15:41
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tango_matrixx: seriously?15:42
tango_matrixx: intredasting15:42
matrixxtango_: seriously15:43
tango_so I can just, say, post on /r/jolla and say "hey, you want one, use this rebate code" ?15:43
* tango_ was going for something more discreet, just telling a couple of friends15:43
matrixxtango_: sure, I've spread mine on twitter, facebook, G+ etc15:44
SK_workTMavica: so no upload ...15:44
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matrixxthey even promise a small surprise to the people whose codes are used most times15:44
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TMavicaSK_work: seem api not support?15:52
SK_workTMavica: reverse engineer and all those haxxor stuff15:52
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sledges40k!16:01
leinirok... if this keeps up, it's going to be something like the fastest kickstarter ever ;)16:03
cb400fis there a maximum?16:04
cb400fthose guys might end up needing to assemble several thousand keyboards by april ;-)16:05
SK_workleinir: not the fastest16:05
SK_workbut quite a fast one16:05
AsimovLol I was looking at the same thing sledges16:05
SK_workthe fastest is the potato salad16:05
dunplink16:05
Asimov€40,363 pledged of €55,000 goal16:05
Asimovhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla16:06
leinirSK_work: oh right, yeah :)16:06
sledgesprobably potato salad had a massively connected community, all lead by the fact they couldn't make food on their own16:06
sledgeshence having shipped potato salad to their door(?)16:06
sledgesi'd also ask the link to that potato salad:))16:07
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sledgesright16:07
sledgeshttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad16:07
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sledgesan example of a thing going viral, yet we are aiming for a real deal here;) (surely someone could kickstart an edible TOH with food 3D printers)16:11
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GreatEmeraldWow, that potato salad thing is quite ludicrous...16:21
r0kk3rzyeah it was pretty funny16:22
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GreatEmeraldAlso, kicktraq is now trending towards 2275% ($1.25 million) :16:24
GreatEmerald:)16:24
TimoSo, who's interested in an Airhorn Other Half, linked to, e.g. receiving a message? Then no one may ever complain anymore about Jolla's speaker being too quiet.16:25
pp_at some point they can hire some chinese to do the assembly, I guess 55k isn't enough for that16:25
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clauhttps://www.youtube.com/user/HondaVideo/OtherSide16:27
stephgTimo: I was thinking more kitchenSinkToH, with ethernet, rj11 (for 56k, you never know) swiss-army bottle opener and emergency parachute should you drop your phone out of a plane (by accident)16:27
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Timostephg: Well, that's possible too. An Airhorn OH would be cool enough for me though.16:28
stephgklaxOH16:29
TimoExactly.16:31
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stephg:)16:31
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pdanekhttp://n4bb.com/blackberry-passport-extreme-durability-test-video/17:00
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Morpog_PC__10000€ to go \o/17:08
cybette9000!17:08
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Morpog_PC__weeee!17:09
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Morpog_PC__I wonder why people go for the 120€ option without color choosing17:11
Nicd-only one has done that17:11
Morpog_PC__oh, I looked wrong, lol17:11
Morpog_PC__thought 199 of 200 :D17:11
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r0kk3rzwell if you want white polished as the colour17:13
r0kk3rzthen its a nice gesture to leave the colour options to other people17:13
Nicd-then you can pay 110 € :P17:13
Nicd-but maybe they wanted to support the project a little bit more17:13
Nicd-dunno17:13
Morpog_PC__I still secretly hope for injection molding17:13
Nicd-Morpog_PC__: then better pay more! ;)17:14
Nicd-they keypad is molded17:14
Morpog_PC__well, I paid 120€ ;)17:14
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r0kk3rzwould be easier for dirk if injection molded17:22
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r0kk3rzhis 3d printer wont get so much of a workout17:22
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Morpog_PC__and quality would be so much more nice!17:22
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r0kk3rzthats alright, we'll get the files to do it ourselves17:26
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sledgesnoob Q: how will the keys be glued onto rubber? one by one manually? (won't directly pester dirk on this question yet:)17:37
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Shinryuujust when tohkbd got released in kickstarter.. it won't accept my card :D17:37
Morpog_PC__sledges, I guess it's a whole mat of keys that will be put on top of the keys17:38
Morpog_PC__everything else would be insane :D17:38
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r0kk3rzsledges: check out the demo video on the kickstarter17:39
sledgesMorpog_PC__: my thoughts exactly. yet it has to have a flexi bond between each key17:39
r0kk3rzlooks like a dome keyboard rather than a key keyboard17:40
sledgesr0kk3rz: but that's only the "undercover"17:40
r0kk3rzoh is it?17:40
r0kk3rzmy bad17:40
Morpog_PC__yeahz, check video of prototype17:40
sledgesfrom ks: "The keypad is placed on top of a dome-sheet,17:40
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r0kk3rzyeah right17:40
r0kk3rzno idea then17:41
sledgesor maybe once glued each key will have to be pressed once17:41
sledgesto "unclip"/pop-out from the neighbours17:41
Nicd-r0kk3rz: they said they're not going to print it themselves17:42
Nicd-sledges: better ask dirk and friends than speculate :P17:42
sledgesNicd-: sure, ultimately;)17:42
sledgesi wonder how to explain such explosive backing on the first day - do most of them want this for christmas? :D17:43
sledges(however improbable but still;)17:43
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Morpog_PC__I wonder if pre order of Jolla back then was same explosive17:45
Shinryuuurgh.. damn kickstarter17:46
SK_workMorpog_PC__: noone knows :)17:46
Morpog_PC__:D17:46
HypernovaAre you guys from Finland?17:46
ShinryuuI am17:46
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HypernovaNice :)17:47
r0kk3rznot sure i get your definition of explosive Morpog_PC__17:47
r0kk3rz400 ish backers is great17:48
HypernovaI want Jolla to go bigger than Nokia was , not microsoft nokia and then keep going on17:48
r0kk3rznot sure its explosive though17:48
sledgesr0kk3rz: in terms of reaching goal on first day17:48
Nicd-r0kk3rz: I'd say it's explosive on jolla scale17:48
Morpog_PC__explosive = good17:48
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Morpog_PC__I wouldn't have thought we would get over 20000€ on day one17:49
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Nicd-yeah, it's pretty insane17:50
sledgesespecially with initial reception about price too high i read on tmo and away17:51
r0kk3rzyeah i guess thats true17:51
Morpog_PC__well sledges there are not really any alternatives :D17:51
Shinryuu"declined. please try another card." guess I'm bailing out17:51
Nicd-more inspiration to continue my app development!17:51
sledgeshaha, they got the monopoly :D17:51
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locusfShinryuu: visa electron perhaps?17:52
Morpog_PC__Nicd-, I would buy some apps in Jolla store - if I could....17:52
Shinryuuwell, yeah17:52
locusfwon't work, tried myself today17:52
locusfordered a debit card instead17:52
Nicd-Morpog_PC__: in case you are talking about sailtime, donations can be arranged ;)17:52
Shinryuu:/17:52
Nicd-I think a Visa Electron won't work because it has to be instantly billed17:53
Nicd-that's why it doesn't work in trains either17:53
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* Morpog_PC__ checks Jolla store for Sailtime17:53
ShinryuuNicd-: I see17:53
pdanekhttp://www.mastercard.co.uk/prepaid-card.html17:54
pdanekhttp://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-card-payments/visa-prepaid17:54
pdanekwrong chat, sorry17:54
Nicd-Shinryuu: get yourself a free visa debit from s-bank ;)17:54
Nicd-or... "free"17:54
Morpog_PC__Nicd-, looking nice, but I'm using lighthouse for that already :D17:54
Nicd-lighthouse doesn't have an uptime record feature!17:55
Morpog_PC__which would suck for me, as I reboot too often ;)17:55
Morpog_PC__hehe17:55
Morpog_PC__cut cool idea17:56
Morpog_PC__but17:56
Morpog_PC__I wonder how much $$$ it needs for injection molding17:57
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Morpog_PC__ahhaaha https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1nUMVyIgAAmf6D.jpg :)17:58
Morpog_PC__he looks quite impressed17:58
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SK_workhttps://twitter.com/SfietKonstantin/status/529694401719992320 <- some retweets ? :)17:59
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Nicd-Morpog_PC__: B)18:00
Nicd-or more like B|18:00
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Shinryuuguess I'll get the visa debit card and I hope it works18:04
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Nicd-s-bank visa debit works18:05
Shinryuuwhat is this s-bank?18:05
ShinryuuI'm a member of OP18:05
Nicd-s-pankki?18:05
Morpog_PC__Stskeeps, my laggy behavior on update9 turned out to be not a free memory problem, but full btrfs volume probleme. After a btrfs rebalance my Jolla acts even smoother now on U9. All those sporadically lags and big delays are gone!18:05
Shinryuuah18:06
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Morpog_PC__less than 5000 to go18:08
Shinryuuughh18:08
Shinryuuwill I get my card in time18:08
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sledgesMorpog_PC__: does btrfs rebalance need to be run from recovery?18:09
Morpog_PC__Shinryuu, it doesn't stop at 5500018:09
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Shinryuugood18:09
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Morpog_PC__sledges, nope, did from booted system over usb ssh18:09
sledgesok, time for a rebalance here as well:)18:10
Morpog_PC__check if it'S needed first18:10
Morpog_PC__btrfs fi show18:10
Morpog_PC__if it says 13,75 from 13,75, then it's needed18:11
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Morpog_PC__beware device is not really usable while you do it18:11
sledgesok thanks18:11
Morpog_PC__took over 40 minutes here18:11
Morpog_PC__without any progress bar :D18:12
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sledgeshttps://mobile.twitter.com/dirkvanleersum/status/529687742549356545/photo/118:14
sledgesi still can't stop laughing from his face expression18:14
sledges :D great find Morpog_PC__18:15
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GreatEmeraldBackers are 40418:16
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StskeepsMorpog_PC__: interesting18:18
Morpog_PC__Stskeeps, haven't really stress tested it yet, but it's quite nice so far. Especially Android apps behave alot better again.18:19
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r0kk3rzu9 does seem easier to top the ram out on though18:20
Morpog_PC__that for sure18:21
Stskeepswe're looking into that18:21
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Morpog_PC__<3000€ :)18:26
SK_worksoon18:27
SK_work:)18:27
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sledgesdid it start at noon GMT?18:29
Morpog_PC__depends on the timezone :D18:29
sledgesay?:D18:30
Morpog_PC__it started 6hrs and 30 minutes ago18:30
Morpog_PC__oh, GMT, rofl, didn't see that18:30
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sledgesnoon it is18:32
sledges:)18:32
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arhi. is it possible to buy a replacement screen for jolla? because mine shattered18:46
ar(touchscreen and lcd seem ok, just the first layer seems broken)18:47
sledgesstart the countdown18:47
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arsledges: hm?18:47
Nicd-ar: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla18:47
Nicd-(the countdown)18:48
Nicd-anyway, I don't think there are replacement screens18:48
Nicd-you'd have to send it in for repairs18:48
DrainBamagedIt's the Final Countdown...18:48
Morpog_PC__dadada da dadadadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa18:49
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DrainBamagedCue Gob Bluth with his magic :D18:49
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sledgescongratzzz!18:49
Morpog_PC__wohooooooooooooooo18:50
tadzikhah18:50
Nicd-WOOOO18:50
fluxbring out the champagne!18:50
tadzikwhen did it go live?18:50
Stskeepscongrats to the tohkbd guys18:50
Stskeepsnow you really have to do it18:50
Stskeeps:P18:50
tadzik:P18:51
ShinryuuYES18:51
Shinryuudamn debit card come to papa18:51
Shinryuuit might take a week18:51
pdanekThe Communicator is back!18:53
arhehe18:53
Morpog_PC__tadzik, 7hours ago soon18:54
Nicd-Stskeeps: know if any Jolla Qt/security guys are here?18:54
StskeepsNicd-: security@jolla.com for any security reports18:54
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Stskeepsar: it may very well be cheaper to buy a new one with the current 100 eur voucher.. while i don't speak for current conditions, i think i saw a replacement costing 200 eur-ish from somebody18:55
Nicd-Stskeeps: not really a report, just asking if Qt 5.2 has been / will be patched to disable SSLv318:55
Stskeepstigeli might know what our activities are.18:55
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Nicd-related: https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/97729/ (the patch to disable it)18:55
Stskeepsar: it's one of those parts where we can't really just replace one of the items..18:55
pdanekGuys, how expensive is the Jolla battery? The one we can apparently buy on ebay?18:56
pdanekI will need new battery by Q1 2015, this is getting weaker already18:56
arStskeeps: i see18:56
Stskeepsar: but take a talk with care first18:57
arStskeeps: yeah, just mailed them18:58
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thpmattaustin: re: pyotherside version in the python-support branch, that can be updated once it's going to be merged, of course (i.e. when store supports it, we can just bump the version to whatever the current is at that time).18:58
Nicd-tigeli: have you patched or are you going to patch Qt 5.2 to disable SSLv3? related, the patch in question: https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/97729/18:59
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StskeepsNicd-: anyhow, if you don't get a response here, just send a mail to security@jolla.com; the right people read that19:00
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Nicd-ok19:02
Nicd-there's just no way to disable SSLv3 in Qt QSslSockets without hardcoding in some TLS version19:02
Nicd-don't want my app being insecure :)19:02
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Teguhumm, I wonder why vibration is not working on incoming calls or messages.. have been missing calls especially in silent mode (only the screen lights up but nothing else. not so nice in pocket)19:13
Teguit does work elsewhere, though (like fingerterm atm)19:14
fluxnicd-, why not ask #sailfishos? though I think it doesn't seem like the functions to do what you want are there yet. there is QSslConfiguration::setAllowedNextProtocols, but it's in Qt 5.3..19:18
Nicd-flux: they told me on #qt it's just not possible19:19
fluxthe list of allowed protocols seemed so hacky, no wonder it didn't fit all situations :/19:19
Nicd-they also told me quite bluntly that it's the job of the software distributor to patch their Qt so that QSsl::SecureProtocols refers to really secure protocols19:20
fluxthat QSsl::SslProtocol with QSsl:SslV3, V2, TlsV1, V1_1.. and then TlsV1SslV3, what it this?19:20
fluxright, it should not be possible for a client application to really choose what it wants to use.19:20
Nicd-heh19:21
fluxwell, you can always put your own libqnetwork or somesuch alongside your app19:21
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Nicd-luckily there is a weechat version coming that has SSLv3 disabled19:23
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merlin1991tbr do you have salmeta running on qt 5.2? I'm wondering if I should opt in to the update ...19:29
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Morpog_PC__merlin1991, the opt-in is really great, but it shouldn't be that far to U1019:32
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GreatEmeraldAnd now TOHKBD is over 60,000€...19:46
Morpog_PC__the cheap options are going to end, hurry up guys ;)19:46
tbrmerlin1991: not yet, problems compiling it19:47
tbrjavispedro is on a trip, so it might still take a bit19:47
GreatEmeraldThis is so going to break Kicktraq, it's already trending toward 1.73 million, and the data is 44 minutes old19:48
GreatEmerald16 hours still left in the day, too19:48
ninnnuthat'd require 10k buyers...I'm not sure if that's likely.19:49
ninnnu(for 1.73mil)19:49
Morpog_PC__I guess 1000 is already quite optimistic :D19:50
tbrit's funny to look at those unlikely linear projections though19:50
cb400fnon (yet) jolla owners have a strong incentive to pledge, so... ;-)19:50
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ninnnucb400f: I think everyone who wants Jolla already has one..19:51
Stskeepsyou'd be surprised19:51
cb400fI think € 100,- discount + a physical qwerty keyboard might sway some people :-)19:51
cb400fespecially people clinging to their N900s ;-)19:52
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tbrthe N900 rework people might not be thrilled ;)19:53
* Stskeeps zips his mouth19:53
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r0kk3rzsome might be holding out for the neo90019:55
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GreatEmeraldShouldn't the N900 rework people just go use Jolla now? :D19:56
tbrGreatEmerald: that's more about emotions than anything19:56
ninnnuGreatEmerald: Not necessarily, because Jolla isn't as free as Neo900 (UI, possibly some pieces of hardware)19:57
tbras if the n900 would be better19:57
tbrthey can switch many things, but the SGX GPU will e.g. remain19:58
GreatEmeraldtbr: In that case, those people are probably going to stay just as thrilled as they are now19:58
Stskeepswell, they have a open wlan driver, they've got that going for them..19:58
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GreatEmeraldninnnu: Can't you just swap the UI for vanilla Nemo?19:59
ninnnuGreatEmerald: You'd be still left with less open/free drivers, which is one of the things Neo900 is aiming for. If we're talking about the same project20:00
tbrsure, some people run glacier20:00
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GreatEmeraldninnnu: True. I hope the second edition Jolla will have better hardware in that regard20:03
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Morpog_PC__I wonder what those people with Neo900 will do when maemo doesn't run on it properly....20:03
Nicd-it doesn't?20:04
Nicd-maybe they'll install sailfish on it :P20:04
Stskeepsmaemo is a pita to port anywhere20:04
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Morpog_PC__Nicd-, they have to reverse engineer and rebuild alot of stuff20:06
Morpog_PC__ah kicktraq is updated again20:06
GreatEmerald2 mil, nice :)20:07
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tigeliNicd-: we have not patched qt yet..21:00
Nicd-is it planned?21:00
tigeliNicd-: eventually :)21:01
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Morpog_PC__pppft patching, go for QT5.4 in U11 :)21:03
* Morpog_PC__ hides21:03
Nicd-tigeli: ok, my app's security against POODLE depends on it :D21:03
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GreatEmeraldNew trend is 2.09 million :D21:05
pp_I wonder if that much worth of phones have been sold O:)21:05
Oni^GreatEmerald: link?21:05
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EztranOni^: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla/21:07
tigeliNicd-: does your app support protocol downgrade?21:07
Nicd-tigeli: it just uses QSslSocket so I think yes21:07
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Eztranbut note link underneath trending toward figure telling you to take it with a pinch of salt, of course...21:07
M4rtinKalready spamming every relevant ML & friends with the TOHkbd kickstarter :)21:07
KabouikSome of my sms don't get delivered anymore, for two different contacts, while I still receive and send successfully sms to another one. The not-received ones are actually send (no error), but I get no confirmation and my contacts didn't receive anything.21:07
M4rtinKlets see how far we can get it :)21:07
KabouikCan it be linked to the size of the history? I still receive sms from them though.21:07
tigeliNicd-: can't say for sure.. I would bet on not supporting, but.. anyway sslv3 is not safe. :)21:07
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Nicd-tigeli: and that's why I'm worrying about this :P21:08
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GreatEmeraldHm, looking at TOHKBD's backer comments, it makes me wonder if you can make a TOH TOH (a TOH you can attach a TOH to)21:19
AsimovWhat's the point?21:20
GreatEmeraldTo have the benefits of bost simultaneously, obviously ;)21:21
GreatEmeraldboth*21:21
GreatEmeraldAs in both a keybord and a solar battery, or both a keyboard and a flashlight etc.21:21
AsimovOh, ok.21:22
ninnnuyou couldn't really hae keyboard and solar battery anyway21:25
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GreatEmeraldWell, people in the comments there are hoping otherwise :D21:33
GreatEmeraldPretty funny, it's day 1 and people are already discussing stretch goals21:33
ruskielol21:33
ruskiewell it did exceed the funding goal21:33
ruskieand it did so in like 8h or so21:34
Morpog_PC__it will cool down now21:34
KabouikLet's just hope for injection molding, and possibly more customization options, that's all I want :o21:34
Morpog_PC__end of month will be better again when people get money and the end of the campaing is near21:34
ruskieso what if it cools down?21:35
ruskie€69,208 pledged of €55,000 goal21:35
Morpog_PC__well nothing, we just can't hope for 70000 every day :D21:35
ruskiewhy would you need more?21:35
Morpog_PC__ruskie, injection molding of course21:35
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Azogis there a qwertz-version of the tohkbd?21:40
Shinryuuso.. do they have some manufactures available or are they going to everything by hand!?21:40
stephgAzog: it's an option I believe yes21:41
Azogi didn't find it on the page21:41
KabouikThere is one Azog21:41
stephgit's there. there's an infographic (gif) with a bunch of layouts21:41
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r0kk3rzhttp://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/introducing-nogotofaila-network-traffic.html21:41
Kabouikhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/851/518/0c722857f4d52198a0f1629c635f95ec_large.gif?1415094184 3rd one here21:41
r0kk3rzbe interesting to test the jolla against that21:41
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Azogthanks for the hint21:42
TeguShinryuu: the risks and challenges section at the bottom of the page says that they assembled by hand21:44
ShinryuuTegu: I was just reading that.. you read my mind21:44
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GreatEmeraldAnd now it's past 70,000€21:52
Tegunice21:54
leinirhehe, nice trending graph as well... ;)21:54
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EztranIt'll be interesting to see the projected when they have enough data for it.21:58
M4rtinKwell, if the boards are already soldered by the factory21:59
M4rtinKthen it should be doable21:59
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KabouikNo ideas about my issue with sms (question asked here just one hour ago, +/- 3 min)22:05
Kabouik?22:05
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GreatEmeraldNow trending to 2.2 million22:21
cb400fI did think the 1.73 was pretty pessimistic ;-)22:21
ln-url to trends?22:22
Eztranln-: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla/22:24
tadzikhttp://www.kicktraq.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla/22:24
ln-thanks22:24
M4rtinKplease note it has not yet even hit Slashdot, Phoronix & co :)22:24
EztranIt's the projected data that will be more interesting (/realistic), but that takes a bit to acquire data.22:24
AsimovIt looks good now atleast22:25
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GreatEmeraldIf he says that injection molds aren't affordable for only a few thousand pieces, then if we take that 3000 is enough, and take the base price of 100, the stretch goal would then be 300,000€22:41
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GreatEmeraldQuite steep22:41
Morpog_PC__forget it :D22:42
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* Morpog_PC__ goes to bed22:42
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fennekkiso, are all the TOHKBDs sold out yet?22:57
brunelliNope22:58
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brunelliJust the early birds22:58
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brunelliYou can get a white one for 110€ or a colored for 130€ (iirc) yet22:59
GreatEmeraldNot the semi-early birds, though22:59
brunellifennekki: ^22:59
fennekkibrunelli: I don't have enough money right now, I was mostly interested in how the kickstarter has fared23:00
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GreatEmeraldfennekki: Last hour's data shows it's trending towards 2.2 million, so quite well ;)23:00
brunellifennekki: Yeah, the project reached its goal...23:01
brunelliBut you still have 29 days to buy a TOHKBD :)23:01
fennekkiAlmost surprising, really, considering it's not exactly cheap and not that many people own a jolla23:01
GreatEmeraldIndeed23:01
GreatEmeraldPeople seem to really like their keyboards23:02
fennekkiit's better than the N900, in a way23:02
fennekkimostly in that it's detachable. That's incredible.23:02
brunelliGreatEmerald: I didn't get the 2.2 million thing. What does that mean?23:03
fennekkibrunelli: if people keep giving money at this rate they'll reach 2.2M by the end of the period23:03
brunelliMany people (me included) were waiting for a TOHKBD to buy a Jolla :D23:03
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brunelliOh... But this doesn't make sense. We know the campaign already started to slow down.23:04
M4rtinKit just needs more data23:04
cb400fa few hours ago the projection was only 1.73 m ;-)23:05
M4rtinKto illustrate what I mean: http://xkcd.com/605/23:05
fennekkiThe projection could be per day or something23:05
brunellicb400f: Great, its growing today.23:05
brunellicb400f: The Ubuntu Edge project reached 5 million in just one day. Following this project, they would have successed in less than a week.23:06
fennekkialso, wouldn't it be amusing if you could stack the jolla discount sent to everyone who has one with the TOHKBD one for €200 off? :D23:06
brunelliInstead, they failed, reaching 12 million of the 32 asked.23:07
fennekkiwait23:07
fennekkiwhat23:07
fennekkithey launched a kickstarter for 32 million?23:07
cb400fhttp://www.kicktraq.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla/23:07
M4rtinKwell, the Ubuntu thing was vaporware IMHO23:07
cb400fwe don't know the algorithm of the projection.. but of course it could just be a simple linear thing23:08
brunelliM4rtinK: There's a xkcb for every statitics' discussion23:08
GreatEmeraldfennekki: The time periods for both vouchers do not actually overlap23:08
M4rtinKbrunelli: yeah :)23:08
brunellifennekki: Yes LOL23:08
M4rtinKCanonical does that a lot actually23:08
fluxcb400f, I think the trend is a simple linear, the projection might take into account previous performance of other projects23:08
GreatEmeraldflux is right23:08
brunellifennekki: An indiegogo, actually xD23:08
GreatEmeraldHence why no projections yet23:08
M4rtinKthere are quite a lot of Ubuntu based "products" that were every only presented with nice PR materials23:09
M4rtinKand never released, even in source form23:09
brunelliUbuntu for Android, someone said? LOL23:09
fennekkiWell, you know Canonical23:09
GreatEmeraldAh, there, now it's trending to 2.26 million23:09
fennekkithey gotta have their own VCS23:09
fennekkitheir own display manager23:09
GreatEmeraldtheir own app container daemon, apparently23:10
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M4rtinKwell, even before their semi-recent NIH madness wave23:10
fluxfennekki, but you do realize wayland is nowhere neaar being put into a device, at least not a mobile phone!23:10
fennekkiOh! And their own init23:10
fennekkiflux: Truly, truly :D23:10
M4rtinKthey already carried _huge_ patches for about half the GUI components23:11
GreatEmeraldfennekki: Well, their own init was actually a good idea at the time, and after the time was up they did give up on it23:11
fennekkiThat's really amusing, though: the Jolla is the first device I ever saw a working wayland on23:11
GreatEmeraldSame23:11
fennekkiI tried installing wayland on Arch once and Weston would just23:11
fennekkicrash23:11
fennekkiand crash23:11
fennekkiand crash23:11
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fennekkiso I never got to *try* it23:11
M4rtinKand if what I'Ve heard about the Ubuntu Touch development practices is true23:11
GreatEmeraldWell, Wayland on mobile is much simpler than Wayland on desktop23:11
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M4rtinK- closed devel channels, almost no community participation, forks (Trojita for example) and just periodic code drops23:12
brunellifennekki: I'm another one who failed trying wayland on Arch :(23:12
M4rtinKthen they are basically doing a NIH version of Android :)23:12
popeyM4rtinK: that's just not true23:12
pdanekM4rtinK: :D23:12
pdanekyea, I think Ubuntu Touch isn't that bad23:13
brunelliM4rtinK: I truly believe that Mark fella has Not Invented Here syndrome...23:13
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brunelliBut at least Ubuntu Touch has a most innovative UI than Firefox OS or Tizen...23:13
tadzikI can't wait until they roll out their own fork of pulseaudio23:14
cb400fI don't think he minds stuff invented elsewhere, if only he can take credit for it ;-)23:14
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fennekkiShuttleworth is too rich to run a relatively FOSS project23:14
fennekkiit's a widely-observed fact that rich people are not very grounded in reality23:14
M4rtinKmoney bends reality :)23:14
M4rtinKin all kinds of interesting ways :)23:15
brunelliHow hard would it be to do a Ubuntu Touch port for the Jolla?23:15
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r0kk3rzdoes ubuntu touch use libhybris?23:15
popeyyes23:15
brunelliYes23:15
GreatEmeraldM4rtinK: Much of that probably comes from their CLA. It can pay to fork things with it.23:16
r0kk3rzthen it shouldnt be ThatHardTM23:17
brunellir0kk3rz: I don't know much about libhybris, but it's for Android drivers, right? Weren't Jolla's drivers for Sailfish "native"?23:17
brunelliAren't*23:17
M4rtinKGreatEmerald: I can kinda accept a CLA for stuff like Qt23:17
M4rtinKbut not in Canonicals case23:17
r0kk3rzbrunelli: nope, they use an android kernel23:17
GreatEmeraldM4tinK: And keeping things under wraps ensures that someone else doesn't have the chance to fork their work early23:18
popeyGreatEmerald: such as?23:18
GreatEmeraldIt also has the downside of someone else creating something better in the mean time, too23:18
M4rtinKGreatEmerald: and no one has a chance to contribute ;-)23:18
M4rtinKBTW, I don't believe in that at all23:19
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brunellir0kk3rz: I see... So it would be, theorically, possible?23:19
r0kk3rzyeah23:19
GreatEmeraldYea, well, people outside Canonical are reluctant to contribute to CLA'd software to begin with, so it's not much of a loss for them23:19
M4rtinKyou can see brilliant open source code bases bit-rotting left and right23:19
brunelliCool! It would be great to try Ubuntu on the Jolla :D23:19
GreatEmeraldWell, time to go sleep, bye23:20
M4rtinKthere is no army of people just waiting to fork your shitty project the second you release it :P23:20
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brunelliI have to say, the idea of opening the development of Ubuntu Touch's Core Apps to the community is really great.23:21
brunelliI think Jolla should've done something like this.23:21
M4rtinKbut the exact opposite - in 99.9% of cases you will be lucky to get _any_ contributions _at all_, let alone someone investing enough resources to do a real fork23:21
M4rtinKbrunelli: sure!23:22
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brunelliAt least they are opening some of their apps now... :)23:23
brunelli(they = Jolla)23:23
M4rtinKyeah, that's a good trend23:23
Eztranjust wondering, how many commits are those actually getting from outside Jolla?23:24
M4rtinKbut I still don't see any reason for keeping them closed source in the first place :)23:24
w00tEztran: practically none23:24
brunelliNot much, I think...23:24
w00tbut it's non-zero23:24
EztranI don't either, actually, but people seem to make a lot of noise when they have no intention of actually contributing.23:24
brunelliAt least not on Browser23:24
M4rtinKwell, it is not very easy to contribute at the moment :)23:25
EztranTrue. And I suppose some of what people want to get in is UI stuff, which is down to design, etc...23:25
M4rtinKespecially to components that might be a backend for a closed part, etc.23:25
M4rtinKbut IIRC for example the recent Conmann patch was contributed by the community23:26
brunellihttps://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-browser/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed23:26
brunelli172 accepted pull requests, seems like a reasonable number :)23:27
M4rtinKalso I wonder if Jolla would be willing to upstream some of the Patch Manager patches as optional "modes" :)23:27
M4rtinKthe code is all there, waiting to be picked up :)23:27
w00tbrunelli: remember that everyone works through pull requests, not just people from outside jolla - you need to look at the people writing the changes to get a proper overview23:28
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EztranThose 172 pulls do mainly seem to be employee stuff, yeah.23:28
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brunelliw00t: Oh...23:28
brunelliI thought they committed directly on the repo...23:29
fennekkiI have a friend who runs connmann on their laptop, IIRC23:29
w00tno. everyone goes through code review :)23:29
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brunelliHow strange :x23:29
fennekkiI'm still angry about there being no GUI for PEAP23:29
M4rtinKw00t: yeah, more eyes-on-code are always better to avoid polluting the Git history :)23:30
M4rtinKbrunelli: most sane projects use code review before committing patches to the repository23:31
brunelliIs there any work from Jolla or SK (Patchmanager's dev) on bringing landscape orientation to the launcher?23:32
M4rtinKmight not be github pull requests - Kernel style mailing list review, Gerrit, Gitlab, etc.23:32
brunelliM4rtinK: I thought they had a internal branch or something ><23:32
M4rtinKbrunelli: fortunately not :)23:32
M4rtinKyou generally don't want to do that as it can prevent people from effectively contributing & testing your code23:33
brunelliM4rtinK: Yeah, you're right...23:34
brunelliSK_work: Are you here? :)23:34
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