#jollamobile log for Monday, 2014-11-24

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tbrgood moaning06:47
Jope06:48
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lainwir3dhi08:11
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Laxtlohi08:14
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Laxtloany rumours for coming updates ?08:15
Nicd-well we have the features for U10 already08:15
tbrLaxtlo: why resort to rumors if there is an official statement08:15
Nicd-but no ETA08:15
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Laxtloaha08:16
Laxtlojust asking :)08:16
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lainwir3dso much tablet sold !08:17
Laxtloyeah cant wait to get mine08:17
TemeVLaxtlo: rumours are easy, you can just make one up. Repeat it a few times and it becomes "truth"08:17
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Laxtloteme : true08:18
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tbrTemeV: is that what marketing tries with the whole "open source" story ;)08:19
tbrSCNR08:19
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TemeVwell... It is kind of true. Some people don't consider drivers and ui part of the operating system, so that would make the os "fully open source" :)08:20
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tbrI'm not a fundamentalist, but what mktg thinks they can away with is surprising to say the least08:23
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TemeVyeah, but I also guess there is some communication issues between marketing and development that cause things like this08:27
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entilso my first attempts at textsecure leaked out yesterday when I pushed them on github08:36
entilhttps://github.com/BatrachianExcellenceInc/BatrachSecure/tree/master/src08:36
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entilit's not jolla yet, the api client quits the main app, but hey, at least it can send you your verification code from the shell ;)08:36
entilthat is the wrong link, this is it: https://github.com/BatrachianExcellenceInc/BatrachSecure08:37
Armadillound ist last minute für ende des monats oder?08:37
Armadillowrong channel :D08:37
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entilich habe keine Ahnung, aber jeden Monat muss ein lätzte Minut haben08:37
entilglaube ich08:37
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Armadillolol08:39
entileine? argh german's hard08:39
entilminute? fuck, I need to brush up on this08:40
Armadillohehe08:40
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Nc_entil, ignore grammar in German - makes things sooo much easier08:41
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TemeVGerman grammar is just purely evil08:42
Nc_truth08:42
Armadillowell also finnish looks really hard^^08:43
entilfinnish is consistent08:43
entilgerman has exceptions to weak declinations of masculine nouns ;)08:43
TemeVFinnish is easy, even the kids around here can speak Finnish :)08:43
entilbut imo german's not that bad, it's just that I'm forgetting how to speak it08:43
Nc_in Finnish you need grammar - in German, it is just to eff with people's head08:43
Armadillois like every other language, the more experience, the better08:44
entiljust remember the dative prepositions and you have most of the hard stuff figured out08:45
ArmadilloNc_ not really^^08:45
entiland the ones that take dative for movement and state transitions08:45
TemeVFinnish is just difficult, because it's completely different from every other langueage08:45
entil(correct me if I'm wrong, Armadillo, but in die Schule sein, in der Schule gehen)08:45
entil(an, auf, hinter, in, something, something else? :D)08:46
Armadilloentil in der Schule sein, in die Schule gehen08:46
entilArmadillo: sein is always dative?08:46
Nc_Admittedly, I only have 7th-9th grade German, but it definitely seemed artificially complex compared to other Germanic languages, Armadillo :)08:46
entilTemeV: that might make it harder for someone else to wrap their brain around, but doesn't necessarily make it hard08:46
entilfinns have a hard time wrapping their brains around eg. german, and even swedish, the toy prototype of germanic languages08:47
TemeVentil: my point exactly08:47
Armadilloentil I have to say, I'm really bad in the german grammar terms, I only know how to speak/write things correct ...mostly :)08:48
ln-TemeV: finnish is not completely different from every other language.08:48
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ArmadilloNc_ you're right, it is really complex08:48
TemeVln-: yes, it's similar to Estonian08:49
ln-and others08:49
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entilArmadillo: I just remember that aus/bei/mit/nach/seit/von/zu is always dative and an/auf/hinter/in/maybe others depended, and I thought that it was movement and state transition, but maybe sein is exceptional enough that it's always a state, or something...08:49
Nc_TemeV, thats ... not saying a lot, with only 900.000 Estonian-speakers08:49
entilArmadillo: in die Schule bleiben?08:49
Armadilloin der Schule bleiben :D08:50
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TemeVln-: ok, it's completelty different from all the other languages that have significant amount of native speakers. Happy? :)08:50
anYcand if you're somewhere in germany, you have to learn the local dialect to understand the people ;)08:50
entilArmadillo: ok, screw this, I'll just read up on prepositions08:50
Armadilloentil hehe :d08:50
Armadillo:D08:50
Nc_ln-, outside Finnish and Estonian, there are several other Finno-Uric/Uric languages, but those have very few surviving speakers left08:50
entilhttp://german.about.com/od/grammar/a/DualPrepositions.htm08:50
entiloh crap, I got the two mixed up :D08:51
ArmadilloanYc correct, but this is not specific to Germany ;)08:51
tbrhttp://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html - read and weep ;)08:53
anYc:)08:53
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Armadillocrazy shit08:54
tbrthat one was a classic, this one is a bit more recent: http://annansofi.tumblr.com/image/9405664504008:54
entilgenkau2.html is bullshit of course08:55
ernestiunfortunatelly no08:55
entilyou could do the same thing by listing prepositions and other "helpers" in any language, and a finn would be all like "crazy shit"08:55
Jopewhy is it bullshit08:55
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Jopesure the vast majority of those forms are too awkward to be used08:56
tbrentil: does that make _this_ bullshit?08:56
entil"you actually use separate words, words that you have to learn?!, to say 'in the house'? 'in the house', three words, really?"08:56
Jopeor well .. perhaps 50%?08:56
tbrentil: welcome to the finnish language :)08:56
* tbr <3 finnish08:56
Jopeentil, you have a nordic sounding name..08:56
tbrit's a fun language to learn08:56
Jopeentil, where are you from?08:56
entilmaybe I'm too upset about this, but somehow it rubs me the wrong way to put finnish on some kind of pedestal of screwed-uppedness :P japanese has a lot of the same characteristics, go make fun of japanese :D08:57
entilJope: helsinki (born kalmar, .se)08:57
Jopeok08:57
entilbut that graph of words is perfect, love it <308:57
Jopethought you might have some actual knowledge of the language08:57
entilbecause some of the etymologies are just beautiful, like käydä and käytävä and how käytävä can be used differently08:58
Jopeah yes, the good old koulussa on käytävä08:58
entilyes08:58
TemeVFinnish is efficient language. Try to translate sentence "Lienee nukkuvinaan." to some other language :)08:58
ernesti:D08:58
entilhaha08:58
* Armadillo consults Google Translator :D08:58
TemeVSomething like "It looks like he or she is prenteding to be asleep"08:59
entil"probably pretending to sleep" is what google says08:59
entilimo nukkuvinaan sounds more like "to be asleep" as temev said08:59
Jopeyeps08:59
ernestii do prefer the latter08:59
Jopetemev's is closer to what the sentence tries to convey09:00
Naranekwhat about just tietäisinköhän09:00
ernestiimo entils is09:00
Nicd-Naranek: "I wonder if I knew"09:01
ernestimore like i wonder if i know09:02
Naranekgoogle translate just gives up :D09:02
entilThough the teaching had nothing to do with monkeys, the concept of the three monkeys originated from a simple play on words. The saying in Japanese is mizaru, kikazaru, iwazaru (見ざる, 聞かざる, 言わざる?) "don't see, don't hear, don't speak".[clarification needed]09:02
entilHowever, -zaru, an archaic negative verb conjugation, is pronounced the same as zaru, the vocalized form of saru (猿?), "monkey", so the saying can also be interpreted as the names of three monkeys.09:02
entilalmost as cool as finnish :D09:02
Jopenice09:03
Nicd-I'm surprised no one has mentioned hääyöaieoionta yet09:04
ernestilol09:05
ln-most consonants of that word were sold to czechoslovkia09:05
entildo the czechs pronounce them mainly as vowels, like poles do?09:06
entillike rz being an s-based sound09:06
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Teemuhääyöaieoionta is new to me09:08
Teemuanyhow mäyräkoira is already complex enough compound word for most foreigners and that's very commonly needed in normal social functions09:09
* Nc_ is glad he chose Estonian, and not Finnish09:09
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EzkoTeemu: i rarely buy those, i prefer salkku09:13
Teemuyes that's the modern way09:13
entilNc_: you're learning estonian?09:14
Nc_Married Estonian, so I'm sorta being force-fed the language ;)09:14
entilhehe09:14
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Nc_my 5-yr old is better at it than me... and better and French than me .. and her English is coming along decently ...09:15
Nc_*better at French09:16
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entilNc_: I'd guess by your realname you're danish and not french, so ... where'd she pick up french? :D09:16
Teemuis she good at making smorgasbord?09:16
Teemuentil *5*09:17
Nc_EU School is in french09:17
entilah09:17
entilthat helps :D09:17
Teemufancypants school09:17
Nc_Teemu, you misspelled "free" :)09:17
Teemuwhere?09:18
Nc_Had a kids-party last week - they jumped between 3 languages like it was nothing ...09:18
Nc_Is "free school", not "fancypants shcool" :p ...09:18
Teemu:)09:18
entilif I ever have kids and they don't speak five languages I'll disown them09:19
Teemuany school that aint the median school everybody goes is fancypants school09:19
entilunfortunately my swedish is rusting as well, but I guess speaking it to a child will bring it back as well09:19
Nc_Teaching kids Swedish? thats just cruel09:19
Teemumake her learn martial arts or circus or something that'll give her both good physical strength and enough mental stance to tell people to fsck off if they start teasing her09:20
Nc_Teemu, well, it is a bit fancy pants - half the kids there are from politicians' families09:20
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entilNc_: it'd be the other home language and I'd put them in a swedish-speaking school09:20
Nc_evil .... :)09:21
Teemulike, some kids tease her as she's in the fancypants school => she'll climb a street lamp asking for the other guys to repeat or shut the f up09:21
entilhehe09:21
Nc_Teemu, I started the older girl's boxing-training when she was 6 :p ... If my health improves, hope to get into a gym nearby, to teach her kickboxing09:22
Nc_-'s ...09:22
ggabrielentil: do programming languages count? :)09:22
entilggabriel: not sure yet ;P09:22
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entilbut getting swedish and finnish at home and pushing a latin language at school helps a long way09:24
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Nc_Dual-language/multi-language schools seem like a pretty smart idea - kids getting used to people from other places, hear a lot of different languages, and train 2+ languages from early on09:27
Teemuyes i'm all for it09:28
ggabrielummm09:28
ggabrielit's ok to a certain extent09:28
ggabrieli'd rather learn 2 or 3 useful languages and lots of science than 5 or 6 languages and then not know what a set is09:28
tbrmeh, both ftw09:29
ggabrielthere's a limit09:29
ggabrielyou are only awarded a certain amount of hours of learning in your childhood/adolescence09:29
ggabrieland that's it09:29
ggabrielyou may be able to learn 5 or 6 languages and lots of science, but that wasn't the point, they were just numbers ;)09:30
covoxI definitely wouldn't cut it... got forcefed extracurricular french for 9 years, had no lasting impression beyond remembering a few basic phrases09:30
* tbr speaks 3 languages fluently, and has varying command of 5 more. oh and I did the science bits too and EE and CS09:30
covoxthen again at one stage I was convinced that it was like a substitution cipher and as soon as I could memorize the dictionary I'd be in the black09:31
ggabriellol09:31
tbrat school I was not a hyper bookworm, so it's not that time was a problem09:31
ggabrielwell, yeah09:31
Nc_ggabriel, EU Schools have 1 primary language that you have most lessons in, and then a 2nd language from 1st grade that you have other lessons in.09:31
covox+1 circus btw09:31
ggabrieltbr: like i said, they were just numbers, but that isn't the point09:31
Nc_so learning math in a given language, helps with that language09:31
covoxI did an aerials class for a while, great fun09:32
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covoxthough the early mornings and insane cheerfulness got to me, so I switched to parkour09:32
jonwilI studied Indonesian for a year or 2 in high scool.09:33
jonwilCant remember a thing of the language09:33
ggabrielthat is kind of my point09:34
ggabrieli wasted a lot of time learning [inser here a useless subject]09:34
jonwilbut I did pick up a love for Indonesian and Asian food that I still have today :)09:34
ggabrielwhile i could have learnt something more useful09:34
ggabrieljonwil: easy to learn to love food at any stage in your life09:34
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suosaaskiHey, getting close to one million mark again :)10:23
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suosaaskiAbout 30000 dollars to go to make it 1M€10:25
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chem|st*yawn*10:28
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entilthe image says "the next 2000" but the perk only 1000, guess someone arrived at the conclusion that having a very small fraction of 2000 tablets gone looks worse than 100%10:29
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chem|stcan anyone explain what crowd-sourced means?10:30
Stskeepshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing10:31
chem|stso Jolla marketing is just that, marketing...10:32
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chem|stStskeeps: Jolla's "soon" has a different meaning than "soon"10:32
Stskeepssoon(TM)10:33
chem|st:)10:33
entildon't be unfair, of course an IGG campaign is a lot about marketing :P10:33
Nicd-here you go Stskeeps: ™10:33
chem|stentil: "first truly crowd-sourced" sounds like apple calling "first internet video telphony on a phone"10:36
entilit depends, cuz apple did do it pretty well... and I can't think of a better crowd-sourcing example than jolla10:36
SK_workchem|st: first crowd-sourced tablet: I'm sure there are others10:37
chem|stJolla talks about "together" but do they really listen?10:37
chem|stSK_work: that is what I recall...10:37
SK_workchem|st: let's see10:37
entilbeats me, I haven't felt the need to interact with tjc in a while10:37
SK_workchem|st: but at least they opened market to canada and australia :)10:37
Naranekchem|st: so far they seem to be listening pretty well :)10:37
entilthere are a lot of jolla employees on irc and they're quite open about going for beers, that counts10:37
chem|stSK_work: they need to have some more in the pipe than selling to more countries10:37
fennekkihah10:38
Naranekyou gotta remember that Jolla isn't a magic genie that can fulfill all your wishes just like that10:38
fennekkiNo? Have I been misled10:39
phaeronchem|st: patience .. we're trying hard :)10:39
* TheBootroo|work just wonders what they gonna do with the extra funds10:39
entilwhat extra funds?10:39
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Naranekfennekki: sorry to let you down ;)10:39
chem|stNaranek: sure, but how about milestones, 1M$ and we add NFC/IrDA/FM-TR10:39
TheBootroo|workAdd spec to the tablet, lower price, or fund Jolla Phone 2 ?10:39
fennekkiTheBootroo|work: marketing, marketing, development10:39
fennekkimarketing10:39
fennekkiI'd guess10:39
Stskeepshttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/Bahamas_beach.JPG ?10:40
TheBootroo|workwell, i would be happy seeing a Jolla TV spot10:40
fennekki"$2M and we'll add a death ray to every tablet"10:40
suosaaskichem|st: Why would they lower the profit for the tablet?10:40
TheBootroo|worktired of Apple/Sony/Samsung/Lumia shit10:40
phaeronlasers .. good idea10:40
entilTheBootroo|work: basic maths, that's probably less than three months of salary for jolla employees, so it'd barely dent the retail price, would not cover the costs of changing the specs now and jolla phone 2 is better done by partnership anyway10:40
fennekkilasers are always a good idea10:40
Naranekespecially with sharks10:41
chem|stsuosaaski: profit? those are items worth a few cents... most of it is already on most SoCs it is just not wired10:41
chem|stsuosaaski: the Jolla-Phone is missing a proper antenna for NFC for example10:41
fennekkihm?10:41
TheBootroo|workchem|st: yeah, the intel 64 bit atom used has a GraphicsHD chip and also an LTE by intel hcip10:42
TheBootroo|work*chip10:42
ln-items cost more than their few-cents price when they are integrated into an actual device.10:42
fennekkiAre you saying the current NFC implementation is inadequate?10:42
suosaaskiIt would cost more to change the specs, also they would have to implement it, and they already sold the tablets at a discount anyway?10:42
TheBootroo|workso the tablet could do LTE if only jolla adds a SIM slot10:42
fennekkiwell, granted, I dunno. Never tried it with anything but toh10:42
Nicd-fennekki: the current NFC is only for TOH10:42
chem|stln-: into an actual device, how about a device ready in 6 months?10:42
Naranekit's not like the money gathered on the tablet is extra cash they can use on anything.. I'd say that a big part of it goes to just - you know - getting the tablets out10:42
TheBootroo|workaccording to my search, the CPU could be a Intel Atom E384510:43
SK_workTheBootroo|work: Z37XX10:43
chem|stfineprint reads "we kickoff at 2000 devices" so we are at what now 5k?10:43
suosaaskiit is z373510:43
TheBootroo|workSK_work: sure about that ? confirmed by some jolla ppl ?10:44
fennekkiSailfish on x86 sounds interesting because it means I could probably slap it onto a laptop given a custom kernel10:44
Stskeepsyou can already today, though10:44
suosaaskiTheBootroo|work: z3735 was mentioned on this channel10:44
chem|stwell I don't care much about the hardware, the specs are fine, I am more concerned about SFOS connectivity atm10:44
SK_workI would like NFC10:45
chem|stseamless integration of dlna/upnp/sync and other home-network tasks10:45
TheBootroo|workat least Z37XX are all Intel® HD Graphics10:45
SK_workbut I think that Jolla people already frozen the HW10:45
TheBootroo|workno shitty PowerVR10:45
SK_workchem|st: isn't this SW related ?10:45
chem|stSK_work: I said I am more concerned about SFOS10:45
SK_workok10:46
sharpneliStskeeps: How are the apps being handled on jolla app store? People are required to upload both x86 and arm version of an app?10:46
sharpneliOr is it voluntary?10:46
Stskeepssharpneli: to be defined10:46
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: 100% plain QML app would eliminate the need for multi arch packages10:47
TheBootroo|workbut seems not possible atm10:47
TheBootroo|workunless Jolla adds more QML APIS10:47
SK_workTheBootroo|work: please, no plain QML10:47
TheBootroo|workfor file, DB, Settings etc handling10:48
SK_workI love to write my C++ extensions10:48
SK_workJS is a mess IMO10:48
TheBootroo|workSK_work: yeah but if C++ extensions are standard toolkit, everyone can use them in plain QML10:48
TheBootroo|workwhich is nice10:48
SK_workTheBootroo|work: no, you cannot cover everythign10:48
SK_workI write specific models for specific tasks for example10:48
SK_workso ...10:49
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sharpneliTheBootroo|work: The things you can do with QML is pretty much just fart apps10:49
Nicd-sharpneli: I would imagine the SDK will compile fat packages in release mode in the future10:49
Nicd-and then you upload that10:49
sharpneliTheBootroo|work: One needs full native access.10:49
chem|stNicd-: +110:50
entilsharpneli: I read that as "fast apps" :(10:50
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: i can't agree 100%, only 60%10:50
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TheBootroo|worki use QML daily for 4 years nox10:50
TheBootroo|work*ow10:50
TheBootroo|work*now10:50
TheBootroo|workwith adequate C++ toolkit exposed to QML one can do almost everything10:50
sharpneliTheBootroo|work: Consider iPhone. They introduced native SDK even though they originally wanted webapps. Consider android which quite quickly implemented NDK because java just didn't cut it10:50
TheBootroo|workbut, that's mandatory that someone creates the tookit, with nice API, and expose it for everyone10:51
sharpneliAnd now android has full native activities.10:51
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: please don't, don't even dare comparing JDK and QML10:51
sharpneliAlmost everything that is not compute intensive nor 3d graphics stuff.10:51
TheBootroo|workQML is plain C++ underground10:51
TheBootroo|workwell10:52
TheBootroo|worki understand your point guys10:52
TheBootroo|worki simply say that we could perfectly have a fully featured Qt API available in QML10:52
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TheBootroo|worki've partially done it for 80% of my projects10:52
sharpneliSure. But I mostly referred to the implication that native applications would be forbidden10:53
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: well, forbidden is maybe too much10:53
SK_workTheBootroo|work: you can indeed do most of your work on QML10:53
TheBootroo|workmaybe just encourage QML apps, to ease updates, and multi-arch deploy without breaking code10:53
SK_workassuming good QML plugins10:53
SK_workbut there are people who prefer native10:54
SK_workbecause C++ stuff might be more concise etc.10:54
TheBootroo|workSK_work: yeah, but still need that these plugins are standards, because if i must deploy 150 plugins with my app, it's not a gain over a mixed C++/QML app10:54
sharpneliThe problem is that even if 90% of an app is pure QML goodness the remaining 10% must be implemented or there will not be an app at all10:55
sharpneliAlso to be honest QML is really bad for games10:56
sharpneliIt's a sin to use QML for anything realtime. It's battery life killer at the very least.10:56
TheBootroo|workthe point that makes me fear a lot, is that if tablet is 64bits, we will mandatory need a 64bit dev machine to produce binaries, unless jolla opens an OBS server to make the builts10:56
sharpneliUmm. Who doesn't have 64bit x86?10:56
sharpneliIt's an 11 year old ISA :D10:57
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: we can have a 64bit CPU but use a 32 bit distro to avoid some issues with some specific drivers for example10:57
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sharpneliEven today? I can imagine that for some old HW but not for anything modern10:58
TheBootroo|workfor my part, i just migrated my main laptop to 64 bit distro, but most of my dev friends still use 32 bits because of issues with Nvidia drivers, Flash player or things like that10:58
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: yeah even today, blame manufacturers and drivers developers for that10:58
anYco.O10:59
sharpneliWat? I've used nvidia closed drivers in 64bit for god knows how many years10:59
suosaaskiif you are a developer, and you develop apps, then you need the tools to match. And if that tool is x64 OS it is not that bad given what year it is.10:59
sharpneliWorks fine. Also Flash.10:59
sharpneliIndeed.10:59
fennekkinvidia drivers for 64 bit systems have worked without much issue for as long as I've owned a computer with an nvidia GPU10:59
fennekkithere really is no reason to use a 32-bit distro11:00
anYcisn't ubuntu even planning to skip the 32bit version?11:00
sharpneliI mean sure in 2005 there was some sense to use 32bit distro11:01
fennekkiand if you really really need kinda-legit 32-bit just run a 32-bit chroot11:01
fennekkimultilib is ubiquitous and 64-bit drivers work11:01
fennekkiwhat else is there11:01
SK_workTheBootroo|work: btw, you can use build.merproject.org11:02
TheBootroo|workfennekki: i'm not saying that it can't work , i use 64 bit myself, but i just know a lot of people that can't use it11:02
suosaaskiOf course there are some rather recent hardware with no support for x64, like tablets with atom z2760 etc11:02
TheBootroo|work(i've a full intel platform, so no driver issue anyway)11:02
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sharpneliTheBootroo|work: What hardware is holding them back?11:02
TheBootroo|worksuosaaski: how can they remove 32bit ? they remove instructions sets ?11:03
fennekki...anyway, I fail to see why you couldn't cross-compile x86_64 from any platform11:03
sharpneliThe only thing I can guess is nvidia card from year 2004 that has not had updated drivers in ages :D11:03
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: mainly GPU and printers drivers afaik11:03
sharpneliTheBootroo|work: What GPU's?11:03
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: not sure exactly11:03
sharpneliAnd printer? wtf? Everything works via CUPS nowadays thanks to Apple11:03
sharpneliIt has absolutely awesome support11:03
fennekkisharpneli: it still needs drivers tho11:03
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: some printers have drivers for CUPS but sometimes not for 64bit (like lexmark iirc)11:04
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TheBootroo|workbut yeah, CUPS is awesome i confirm11:04
anYcbut it's userspace stuff that usually works with multilib libraries11:04
fennekkiactually, CUPS doesn't seem to work properly with any printers I've had11:04
sharpneliCan't the cups be run on a jail?11:04
fennekkion the other hand, their interfaces are fucking broken11:04
sharpneliAnd if it doesn't run on 64bit linux then it doesn't run on macintosh11:04
sharpneliAnd that's bad.11:04
TheBootroo|worksharpneli: it surely works on 64 bit cpu, just not compiled/packaged for linux 6411:05
anYcthe 32bit printer drivers I had to work with were actually filters that run as a separate process.11:05
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anYcso no need for 32bit cups. just normal cups starting another 32bit process that pipes stuff around11:05
TheBootroo|workmine, Samsung CLX6260 laser color printer works wonderfully well on my archlinux 6411:05
sharpneliAlso printer drivers are not on kernelspace, so it doesn't matter if they're 32 or 64bit11:06
sharpneliIf for some reason there was a printer that would require 32bit drivers I'd throw that thing on the garbage. X64 is just so much better of an ISA.11:08
suosaaskiTheBootroo|work: remove 32-bit?11:09
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TheBootroo|worksuosaaski: my bad, didn't read correclty12:02
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coderusI want to rent a room in Finland 25 Dec - 10 Jan. For me and girlfriend. We're cool, don't know your language and can cook. Sailors, anyone?12:25
WntI have problems running patchmanager-0.4.5-10.15.1 on SailfishOS 1.1.0.39. I get "[W] unknown:34 - file:///usr/share/patchmanager/qml/main.qml:34:1: "pages": no such directory" in the terminal when trying to launch it.12:26
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WntWhat could be the problem? I already tried re-installin it using "zypper in -f patchmanager-ui"12:27
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Nicd-coderus: might be good to specify where in Finland12:32
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* ggabriel wishes coderus responds "around the lakes"12:34
Sceltggabriel: "such a small country, anywhere is okay"12:35
sharpneli:D12:35
sharpneliI have this cheap place at Rovaniemi humm hummm ;D12:36
sharpneliOnly 10 hours in a car!12:36
sharpneliTo Helsinki12:36
coderusNicd-: anywhere :)12:37
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coderuswill be in Finland around 28 Dec12:37
Nicd-coderus: Finland is surprisingly big...12:37
coderusand want to go to new year party in Helsinki12:37
coderusNicd-: anywhere :)12:38
coderusI'll be happy any meeting in Finland12:38
coderusit's my first trip here, so :)12:38
sharpneliSo you need a place on capital area12:38
coderusif sailors go to some new year party - i want to be here too12:38
coderusand please send me details about events12:38
coderussharpneli: i'm on car12:38
coderusi can live anywhere in finland :)12:39
sharpnelicoderus: As I said. 10 hours drive from Rovaniemi to Helsinki ;)12:39
sharpneliFinland is big12:39
coderusjust need to have that place i can live :D12:39
Nicd-so probably you want anywhere south of Jyväskylä12:39
Wntcoderus: did you check airbnb? https://www.airbnb.com/s/helsinki?checkin=12%2F25%2F2014&checkout=01%2F10%2F2015&guests=2&source=bb12:39
sharpneliYap12:39
coderussharpneli: it's okay12:39
coderussharpneli: russia is much bigger ;)12:39
sharpneliSure12:39
coderusWnt: thanks!12:40
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coderushave to go, will back in a hour12:42
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SK_workWnt: what's the problem about patchmaanger ?12:57
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SK_workdid I really messed up with the packaging12:57
SK_workhum ...12:57
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_MikeAce_i had a bootloop today - when the homescreen appeared the phone went back to the jolla screen. i was able to leave the loop by not entering the pin and thus deactivate the sim services. btw, the signal was very bad at the time (subways). I'm curious, did anyone encounter s.th. alike?13:02
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fennekkidid it make the reboot vibration thing when you entered the pin13:08
fennekkithis sounds like the problem the tape trick was devised to fix13:08
_MikeAce_tape trick? :-)  well, vibration doesn't seem to work anymore. so maybe it wanted to vibrate.13:12
_MikeAce_but it didn't13:13
_MikeAce_ah, battery contact problems maybe? i'll give it a try. thx for the hint.13:16
fennekkiyeah, that13:18
fennekkiit's common13:18
fennekkithe latest trick seems to be removing oxidisation off the contacts by rubbing them with eg. a pencil eraser13:18
WntSK_work: it doesn't start :)13:18
fennekkireportedly works, reliably, and as such no paper or tape needed13:19
SK_workWnt: install jolla-settings-patchmanager13:19
SK_workremove this13:19
WntSK_work: ok13:19
SK_workremove patchmanager-ui13:19
SK_workI think I messed up something13:19
WntSK_work: OK and now it's integrated in settings, thanks!13:21
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* Morpog_PC demands Update 10 today, as it's his birthday :D14:03
Hartzihbd14:03
Morpog_PCthx14:04
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Accehappy birthday14:05
lukedirtwalkerMorpog_PC: happy birthday :)14:06
Acceyour demand has been registered to our demand system. It will be automatically sent to bit heaven during the following 24 hours14:06
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Morpog_PC:-)14:07
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louisdkI just know I wouldn't have any use for a tablet, however it just so tempting :)15:41
SK_worklouisdk: I said this before getting a N715:43
SK_workwell, I was not that wrong15:43
SK_workbut not right either15:43
SK_workusing it sometimes to watch youtube15:43
louisdkSK_work, Nokia N7?15:44
SK_worklouisdk: nope15:44
SK_workNexus 715:44
SK_workthere was no N715:44
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louisdkSK_work, ah right15:46
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SK_workwould loved to try the Nokia internet tablets (N800, N900 etc.) but caught the train too late15:47
louisdkSK_work, N900 is a legend. Loved the keyboard and computer-like OS.15:48
SK_worklouisdk: got a N95015:48
SK_workwas not convinced by the kbd at all15:48
SK_worknow, I just want the TOHKBD15:48
louisdkSK_work, what about the Jolla Tablet? Are you preordering?15:49
SK_workgot one15:49
SK_workwas one of the first 100 to get one15:49
louisdkSK_work, do you work for Jolla?15:49
SK_workno15:49
SK_workI worked15:49
SK_work(intern)15:49
SK_workdoing patchmanager these days15:50
SK_workand some other fun stuff15:50
SK_workJolla and SailfishOS is nice to hack15:50
SK_workquite pleasant for a Linux user15:50
louisdkSo you already have a Jolla Tablet? wow15:50
louisdkSK_work, Or did you mean preorder?15:51
SK_workno15:52
SK_workpreorder15:52
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coderuswhat is average cost of eat in finland per day?16:15
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stephgcoderus is planning a trip?16:16
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coderusstephg: yes!16:17
coderus28 Dec - 10 Jan i'm in Finland16:17
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coderuscalculating now and searching rooms16:18
stephgcool :)16:18
Tofecoderus: in Helsinki, it's about 20-25 per day, I'd say. Breakfast + lunch + dinner. But that's if you don't go to restaurant, which can be expensive.16:19
TofeMaybe if you find the right places, it could go down a bit.16:20
TemeVcoderus: cooking your self or restaurant?16:21
TofeAh wait, it can go down, if you prepare you lunch yourself, ofcourse ;à16:21
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Tofecoderus: you'll arrive just when I'll leave !16:22
TemeV20e sounds quite a lot, I'd say with 10/day you can eat quite nicely16:22
TemeVcooking your self of course16:23
TofeTemeV: yeah, I realize I didn't take the self-cooking into account, which is stupid for a long stay16:23
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TMavicacoderus: let meet!16:24
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TMavicacoderus: hotel is not your choice?16:25
coderusTemeV: cooking fr the most of time16:25
coderusTMavica: i'm looking https://www.airbnb.ru/s/tampere and https://www.airbnb.ru/s/helsinki16:26
TMavicahow much per night? seem ok16:27
coderusTMavica: price in corner is per day16:27
TemeVcoderus: then, I'd say 5-10e/day depending how good food you want16:28
TemeVIn Helsinki probably a little bit more, because everything is expensive there :)16:28
TMavicaI have booked 9 nights hotel in Hel16:29
Plntcoderus: you can also try http://www.9flats.com/ (sth like airbnb). i used them in amsterdam and it was fine.16:30
SK_workyeah, 9 days in hell !16:30
SK_workhell yeah !16:30
SK_work(sorry :))16:30
TMavicaI in Finland from 21/12 - 4/116:30
TemeVSK_work: that reminds me about great ad I saw in Tampere. It was advertising flights to all over europe through Copenhagen or something. Punch line was "Why go through Hel?"16:31
SK_work:D16:32
* SK_work remids of iekku saying she doesn't like Hell sink in16:32
coderusPlnt: can't find in helsinki16:32
TMavicacoderus: seem too late for booking? going full16:33
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TMavicaI want go visit Jolla office, LOL.16:36
coderusTMavica: too late, i booked all Jolla office visits :D16:37
SK_workTMavica: won't be possible16:37
SK_workwhat coderus said :D16:38
TMavica....16:38
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TMavicaSK_work: you in finland?16:38
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SK_workTMavica: nope16:41
SK_work- 40°C is too much for me :D16:41
SK_work(ok, it is not -40°C yet)16:41
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Acce-2 to 2 Celsius, dark and rainy is too much for me16:43
Accewish it was -20 and snowing16:43
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FireFlySK_work: too *much*, you say? :P16:45
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FireFlyAcce: agree, the snow at least reflects some light16:46
AcceFireFly: yeah, and the snow ain't half as wet either :)16:46
Accerather -20 and dry than 0 and wet16:46
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TMavica-20!?16:46
FireFlyI agree16:47
anYcI prefer 20° and don't care if dry or wet :)16:47
FireFlyBut you can't go skiing in 20° :P16:48
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FireFlyIn general I'm more of a summer person than winter person, though16:48
anYcthere are people skying in dubai!1116:48
anYc;)16:49
Accedune skiing? :)16:49
TMavicais there any count down activity in HEL at 31/12?16:49
Accenow I want to play Dune 216:49
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anYchttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_Dubai :)16:49
SK_work0 wet is horrible16:49
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coderuswhat is the working days in Finland in Dec - Jan ?17:04
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_inte_hello17:04
SK_workhi _inte_17:05
_inte_Just saw we're at 321%17:06
_inte_amazing :)17:06
suosaaskistill waiting if it will hit 1M€17:07
* _inte_ as well17:09
_inte_or 2M$ :)17:09
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suosaaskiit won't. But 1M€ might happen as it is only 20k short17:14
_inte_still more than two weeks to go17:15
suosaaskiWell...but it has slowed down A LOT.17:15
_inte_but yes, 2m$ would be great but probably hard to achieve17:15
suosaaskiMost who want it already ordered.17:15
_inte_i ordered mine for 189$ :)17:15
_inte_but maybe, since it is the only Gnu/LINUX tablet applicable to date, some more Linux-users might still consider buying one17:16
suosaaskiyeah, I am quite sure it will hit that 1M€ mark, though.17:17
_inte_e.g. those who were up to order a Vivaldi tablet previously (which never made it into the market)17:17
HarhaanJohtajait might help little if they add more countries17:17
_inte_HarhaanJohtaja: thats for sure17:17
Teemuis't android using gnu/linux?17:17
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sharpneliNo. Android is Linux + bunch of google stuff17:18
sharpneliThe only gnu component is the compiler17:18
_inte_Teemu: android is crap17:18
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Teemu_inte_: i know17:18
Teemubut it still runs on linux kernel, which is gpl17:18
_inte_its rather dalvik (or its sucessor) than linux17:18
_inte_Teemu: yes but only the kernel, which could be easily replaced17:19
_inte_like blackberry did with qnx17:19
_inte_i know this is always disputed but i would neer consider Android as "Linux"17:19
_inte_never17:19
suosaaskiWether android is crap or not, doesn't change the fact that the reason I did not yet order the jolla tablet is lack of apps compared to android or ios.17:21
suosaaskiAnd by the way, for the finnish people here, Expert will have a sale of Lenovo Miix-2 8" / 64GB during the next weekend for 149e. If anyone might be interested in trying to make Sailfish run on it :)17:22
Teemui don't have any tablet and didn't order this either17:23
SK_worksuosaaski: which HW ?17:23
SK_workfor a Miix17:23
Teemuanyhow i'm sure our ell-i control software will eventually be ported to html5/js/whatnot/ymsjne instead of ios app17:24
* tbr has an unreasonable amount of gadgets, including tablets, all of them running linux in one form or the other17:24
Teemuso rest assured your automation configuration needs will be met on jolla17:24
SK_worktbr: linux or gnui linux ?17:24
suosaaskiI believe it's Atom Z3740, 2GB RAM, 64Gt storage, 1280*800 display.17:25
SK_workhum17:25
SK_workinteresting17:25
Teemui would be much happier with free software running on mine instead of Free Software(TM)(except less free than the other frees)17:25
SK_worksuosaaski: which stock OS ? windows or android ?17:25
SK_workif windows you might dump some Linux on it easily17:25
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tbrSK_work: all varieties, including several running GNU/Linux with Qtopia 1.3.1 on top of a 2.4.19 kernel17:25
SK_workand then, Mer, Android etc.17:25
SK_worktbr: woow, awesome :)17:25
suosaaskiSK_work: windows17:25
SK_worksuosaaski: interesting17:26
SK_work1st, dump ubuntu17:26
tbrthat's actually one that's quite dear to me as I hacked a lot on it, including a hdd-driver fix17:26
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Teemui'm saying this even when ell-i software is gplv317:26
SK_workthen, get a basic Mer kernel to run on it, then dump the emulator image, then win :)17:26
SK_workHDD driver fix Oo17:26
_inte_If its an Atom Z2760 it cannot run Linux17:27
SK_workwhy ?17:27
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suosaaskiIt's z374017:27
suosaaskiz2760 is an old model.17:27
tbrSK_work: the kernel driver for the PATA CPLD was not ideal, found a race condition in it17:28
suosaaskihttp://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/41892/fdhxj/Lenovo-Miix-2-64-Gt-WiFi-Windows-8-1-tablet-vari-hopea-suoja that one I think (it is not listen at experts website)17:28
Teemuoh btw is anybody anyhow related to aalto or eit ict labs?17:28
suosaaski*listed17:28
_inte_SK_work: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Intel-No-Linux-support-for-tablet-processor-1709365.html17:28
_inte_dont know the details, though17:28
tbr_inte_: that's a completely different soc though17:29
* _inte_ is not too much in the mood of testing Linux out on tablet hardware17:29
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_inte_plus there is not a single touch related linux distro at the moment17:30
suosaaskiz2760 has some weird power management stuff that is only supported on Windows IIRC17:30
_inte_maybe when kde5 gets ready17:30
_inte_and can easily switch between touch and desktop environments17:30
_inte_and the bootloader issue is resolved17:30
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_inte_then it might be fund experimenting with a transformer tablet17:31
_inte_but until then i rather go for preinstalled stuff (like the Jolla) or notebooks17:31
suosaaskithere is also a 99e Windows tablet at verkkokauppa.com, but it only has 1GB of RAM17:31
suosaaskiz373517:31
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suosaaskihttp://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/49307/dxvtj/ProCaster-Yedi-7-Windows-8-1-tablet17:32
_inte_no but seriously, meego touch is dead, plasma active as well, and kde5 nor sailfishOS are ready yet17:32
_inte_so, any suggestions for a touch-compatible DE on Linux?17:33
_inte_Apart from Android?17:33
_inte_:)17:33
Teemujust port sailfish on a laptop, no? :)17:33
SK_workjust put the good old android emulator in it17:34
_inte_hehe17:34
SK_workI had the alpha emuyaltor (X11 based) + some nemo apps (browser) on an inconia tab17:34
SK_workiconia w50017:34
SK_work(super old HW)17:34
SK_workit worked really well17:34
SK_workmy cooking tablet17:34
SK_work:d17:34
_inte_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cTS1ld53sU17:35
suosaaskiI sold my thinkpad 8 last summer cos I did not really need a tablet. Now with the Jolla "out", I still don't need it, but I am quite tempted :)17:36
Teemucan you cut fish on it?17:36
SK_workTeemu: on the W500 ? sure17:36
cryoratsuosaaski, +117:36
SK_workit is big and bulky, and rock solid17:36
SK_work:D17:36
suosaaskialso tempted by the nokia n1, too, to be honest17:37
fluxmaybe sailfish can be ported to it ;-), though given it's coming from nokia, it could be locked down.17:38
cryorathttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HtoSH723817:38
_inte_nokia n1 will probably run sailfishos as well17:38
suosaaskii heard it is not that locked17:38
SK_workI was like "need" when N1 was out, but when the Jolla tablet was announced, I changed my mind :)17:38
suosaaskibut for me a tablet is mostly about entertainment and checking emails and stuff, which sadly makes the only real options to be ios or android17:39
SK_workcryorat: there are a bit of truth in this advertisement :)17:39
SK_worka bit17:39
SK_workfor old thinkpads17:39
SK_worknewer ones are not as solid17:39
SK_worksuosaaski: get a N1 ?17:40
suosaaskiSK_work: probably. Or nothing.17:40
SK_work:D17:40
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suosaaskimaybe sailfish on a tablet makes it more appealing to make netflix and stuff like that for it.17:41
_inte_suosaaski: that can be done with sailfishos well17:41
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AL13Ni'm pretty sure the sailfishos will gradually improve and get the missing parts17:41
AL13Nlike a better integrated media player (the backend code does video too)17:41
AL13Nand such17:41
SK_workno DRM thing prevents netflix to be natively on Sailfish I guess17:41
_inte_especially if netflix becomes available through html517:41
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Teemu_inte_: after we have the ell-i control soft on cordova, there's no stopping sailfish as the best possible control surface for open source automated homes17:42
suosaaskinetflix already runs on html5 on most devices17:42
AL13Ndoesn't it need DRM?17:42
_inte_unfortunately, if have a skygo subscription which relies on silverlight :(17:43
AL13Nsilverlight... what poc17:43
_inte_that works fine on linux through wine/pipelight17:43
suosaaskiNot sure how it is implemented, but for example osx yosemite, win8.1 and chromeos run it on html5, not silverlight, IIRC17:43
_inte_http://www.pcworld.com/article/2824623/ubuntu-linux-gets-netflix-without-weird-workarounds.html17:44
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AL13Nwith the whole HTML5, why anyone would want silverlight is beyond me17:45
_inte_eme or sth17:45
TemeVchrome :/17:46
_inte_hopefully ff as well in the future17:46
AL13N:-(17:49
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AL13Ntbh, i hope someone makes a FF ext to save the decrypted content17:50
cryoratAL13N, or a wayland stream loop  :)17:55
coderusliving in Tampere or Helsinki is better for new year hollidays?17:56
sharpneliHelsinki17:57
TMavicacoderus: Must Helsinki17:57
coderusfound cool room in Sipoo..17:58
pdanekHey guys!17:59
pdanekUsually I'm forcing my LTE connection through some dbus command.17:59
pdanekCan I force 3G only too?17:59
pdanekLike GSM/2G modem will be off.18:00
pdanekBecause with LTE only, the ping response is better, if all other modems are off.18:00
Teemucoderus: depends on where you want to do what you want to do18:00
TMavicacoderus: any pic?18:00
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coderuspdanek: like this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9243618:01
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Teemui would recommend somewhere north to get a proper kaamos experience18:01
pdanekcoderus: I'm usually doing it via CLI:18:02
pdanek/bin/dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.ofono /ril_0 org.ofono.RadioSettings.SetProperty string:"TechnologyPreference" variant:string:"any"18:02
pdanek/bin/dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.ofono /ril_0 org.ofono.RadioSettings.SetProperty string:"TechnologyPreference" variant:string:"lte"18:02
coderusTeemu: https://www.airbnb.ru/rooms/3818130?s=_lTF18:02
pdanekWhat will be the string for 3G only?18:02
coderuspdanek: there is no any before installing patched ofono18:02
coderusTeemu: planning to live in city for new year eve +- 2 days18:03
pdanekcoderus: does it improve ping response like with LTE only?18:03
coderusand then trip around finland on car18:03
coderuspdanek: no idea, try yourself :)18:03
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TMavicacoderus: will you go to see north light?18:04
coderusTMavica: probably18:04
Teemucoderus: i have absolutely no idea on how to get from city to sipoo but it'll take some time and be problematic on the THE night18:04
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TMavicaso you need book a room in Rov too18:05
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Teemuwhy rovaniemi?18:05
Teemui mean, there's proper lapland too18:05
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Teemulike sevettijärvi or ivalo18:06
nanderWhen is the next update due?18:06
TMavicaTeemu: The room is fully booked in there...18:06
suosaaskiWhat happens to naming when we run out of lakes?18:06
nanderCreate new lakes18:07
Teemusuosaaski: we can always call the lakes-without-names lapinjärvi18:07
Teemuhalf the old ones are already with that name18:07
TeemuTMavica: a single room in all of lapland?18:08
_inte_Just wanna mention that I find the MeeGo Tablet release somewhat similar to sailfish 2.0, which is no big surprise IMHO18:09
TMavicaI cant found any room in there, because chritmas period, many people book18:09
TeemuTMavica: i would suspect that's mostly the rovaniemi and skiing center regions with places such as sevettijärvi less full18:09
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TMavicaTeemu: I booked a hotel in Rov, then I take train to see north light18:11
Teemuokay18:11
Teemui guess rovaniemi is as far as the trains go18:11
Teemuwell, with hotels, places like most of lapland proper has them only in skiing centers18:12
TMavicaTeemu: few hours18:12
TMavicano choice18:12
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Nicd-last time I saw the northern lights I was in Tampere :D18:12
Teemu:)18:12
Teemui've seen northern lights in matinkylä, espoo18:12
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TMavicaI need wake early then take train and sit the to wait north light. LOL18:13
TeemuTMavica: you'll need to step out of the city lights area18:13
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Teemuin the true north the display is on roughly 24/7 on clear skies but you'll not see any if you're too close to light pollution18:14
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Teemuluckily the polluted areas are small and just a few hours hike from even rovaniemi will get you to a good spot18:14
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Teemuwhat you cannot do is to hike up a fjäll to try count all the lakes you'll see18:15
TMavicacan Rov able to watch north light>\18:16
Teemuyes18:16
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Teemujust go somewhere out of city lights area18:16
Nicd-just remember they're not always there ;)18:16
Teemuright18:16
Nicd-I've seen them twice in my life I think18:17
Teemuwhere are you nicd?18:17
Nicd-tampere18:17
Teemuah18:17
Teemutoo south for regular northern lights18:18
Nicd-seen them once when driving from kotka to tampere via lahti18:18
Nicd-then another time in tampere18:18
Nicd-maybe once in Jyväskylä too I think18:18
Teemui guess in the polar region the show is on pretty often if the sky happens to be clear18:18
Nicd-been in lapland many times in january but never actually seen northern lights there18:19
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Nicd-I was scammed! ;D18:19
Teemuanyhow TMavica i recommend you to go see the parts outside city lights during all times of day18:19
Teemuin rovaniemi you could even see a bit of the sun near noon18:19
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TMavicawhat the last train to take me back to Rov?18:22
pdanek1coderus: it does18:23
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TeemuTMavica: i thought rovaniemi is the last stop18:23
Teemuoh it goes to kemijärvi o_O18:23
Teemujust a taxi for 15 minutes is enough to take you out of rovaniemi city lights area18:24
Teemuor a long walk18:24
TMavicaI mean from inari18:24
Teemuahhhh'18:24
Teemutrain doesn't go to inari18:24
TMavicathen how i can go there?18:24
Teemubus18:25
nanderQuite a long train route from here to northern light18:25
TMavicao my god..18:25
Teemunander: where are you?18:25
nanderTransfers in  Osnabrueck, Hamburg, Koebenhavn, Stockholm probably18:25
Teemuah18:25
nanderNarvik should do the trick?18:25
Teemu.no?18:25
nanderFor northern light18:26
nanderYeah, in norway18:26
nanderPretty much the most northernly railway station in the world18:26
nanderApart from one strange stop in Russia18:26
TMavicathe plan need change...18:26
AL13Ncan anyone help me to find a suitable power supply?18:26
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AL13Ni have a intel-based atom board18:27
AL13Nwith an SSD18:27
AL13Nthat's all18:27
TeemuTMavica: the bus service in .fi is pretty good18:27
nanderTake a 250W-ish thing?18:27
nanderTeemu, just very infrequently?18:27
Teemuwell it depends18:27
nanderI mean, here it's unreliable, but the least frequent connections are hourly18:27
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coderusTeemu: tell more about bus trips pleaes18:27
coderusplease*18:27
nanderAnd the best thing is, bus distances here are short18:28
AL13Nhttp://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2550D4I#18:28
coderuswould it help save gas funds and time?18:28
nanderBecause busses are a poor replacement for trains18:28
Teemucoderus: matkahuolto.fi is owned by the individual bus companies and holds basically all the schedules18:28
AL13Ni had a corsair powersupply... but i had power issues18:28
Teemutheir interface sucks18:28
AL13Nwhat's a good brand for powersupplys?18:28
Teemuyou should try out matka.fi18:28
nanderAL13N, corsair18:28
AL13Nbut, i had corsair CX450M18:29
AL13Nand i had troubles with powersupply18:29
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nanderCould just be bad luck18:29
Nicd-I have a corsair, had no problems18:29
Teemuperhaps you had not enough load for it18:29
nanderbe quiet is also quite nice18:29
AL13Nthe mobo sensors values were always fluctuating heavily18:30
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nanderCould be a bad one18:30
nanderEvery company has misproductions18:30
AL13Ngetting the +3V out of bounds and started failing and hanging the system frequently18:30
AL13Nnander: hmm, ok thenh18:30
nanderDo you have an alternative PSU to test your mobo?18:30
AL13Nshould i get a lighter power supply?18:30
AL13Nyes18:31
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AL13Ni ripped one out of a backup pc18:31
nanderI assume you did that test?18:31
AL13Nand that didn't fail anymore18:31
TMavicatake 5 hours bus from Rov to Inari...I give up now18:31
nanderDid you put your 'failing one' in your backup PC as a test?18:31
AL13Nno i didn't18:31
nanderTMavica, distances in FI are huge, deal with it18:31
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AL13Nat first i thought it was the mobo and sent it back for a replacement unit18:32
AcceTMavica: take the night train18:32
AL13Nbut when the replacement unit began to show the same symptoms...18:32
nanderIf you travel in december, any train is a night train18:32
TeemuAcce: train doesn't reach inari18:32
Teemunander: true that18:32
AL13Nbut the symptoms stopped when i put in another PSU18:32
nanderJust buy a new PSU then ;)18:32
AL13Nyes18:32
Acceah didn't notice he's heading from rov to inari18:32
AL13Nthat's what i'm doing now18:32
TMavicathe problem is i only booked a hotel in Rov, but not in inari18:33
AL13Nshould i get a lighter one?18:33
AL13Nor a heavier one?18:33
nanderNot my area of expertise, sorry18:33
AL13Nor the same?18:33
TeemuTMavica: rovaniemi is okay, i'm just being nitpicky :)18:33
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Teemurovaniemi is also pretty small so getting out of light pollution area is easy18:33
Teemujust bring warm clothes18:33
Shinryuuhehe18:33
Teemuor, buy new warm stuff from .fi18:34
Teemuwhere are you from TMavica ?18:34
Nicd-I think it's funny that rovaniemi has a 24/7 sale but tampere doesn't :D18:34
nanderI think (not 100% sure), the guideline for maximum stress of a PSU = 80%18:34
Nicd-sale being a small grocery store18:34
nanderSo your TDP of your entire PC shouldn't exceed 80% of your PSU power18:34
AcceNicd-: power of tourism ;)18:34
TeemuNicd-: sevettijärvi has 24/7 bar post office order alko service18:35
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Teemunot officially ofc but in practice the bar stays open as long as the customers want to18:35
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nanderPost office?18:36
nanderLol18:36
nanderThese things are vanishing here18:36
Teemunander: it's not a post office post office but asiamiesposti post office18:36
TMavicaicebreaker need book?18:37
nanderWhat is that?18:37
Teemuthat happens to be at the local bar/grocerystore/thing18:37
nanderlol18:37
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coderusbasically i have two plans:18:37
nanderIt's nice to have something open 24/718:37
Teemuit's also a really super duper pretty place18:37
coderus1. 28 Dec - 02 Jan in Helsinki18:37
nanderThat's kinda the problem here18:37
coderus02 Jan - 10 Jan Car trip around Finland18:37
nanderIf you miss the last train, most railway stations here don't have heated waiting rooms18:38
nanderAnd they probably kick you off the premisis18:38
Teemuif you ever saw Northern Exposure the tv show, it could be shot in sevettijärvi18:38
nanderAnd most pubs etc. close around 3 AM18:38
nanderSo you have a gap of 4 hours18:38
Teemunander: yes, that sucks bear balls in january18:38
Teemuit is really really cold18:38
nanderIt's the Netherlands18:38
nanderSo it's not extremely cold18:38
nanderWell, the coldest night is still way too cold to stay outside18:38
Teemuas in: if you try to rest sitting on the ground you'll get hypothermia and die18:38
nanderBut that's -23C in rural areas18:39
coderusand second one is 26 Dec - 30 Dec Finland trip18:39
coderus30 Dec - )1 Jan Helsinki18:39
nander-14 in cities18:39
nanderOr something like that18:39
coderus01 Jan - 6 Jan Finland trip18:39
nanderBut that's one night every 3 years or so18:39
nanderMostly it isn't really that cold here18:39
nanderstill too cold to sleep outside though18:39
TMavicacoderus: car trip around finland? how many city you going to visited?18:39
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nanderHowever, our railway company has a rule: if you made a proper planning using their planner and your journey didn't fail due to obvious errors from your side (not taking a connecting train but waiting)18:40
nanderThen they will provide alternative transportation18:40
nanderIf you're lucky that means a 250 km cab drive18:40
nanderAt their expense18:41
AcceI don't know how you consider that lucky :D18:41
Teemu:D18:41
nanderWell, if you fail, at least do it in a spectacular way18:41
nanderYou may even overtake the trian18:41
nandertrain*18:41
nanderMind you, driving by car here is a lot faster than by train18:41
nander130 km/h max speed on roads18:42
nanderTrains run at max 140 km/h18:42
TMavicamy travel plan is: 21/12 - 26/12 in Rov, 26/12 - 4/1 Hel18:42
Accenot in winter18:42
nanderTrains do stops on their way18:42
TeemuTMavica: where are you from, where do you live?18:42
nanderAcce, in Dutch winters it doesn't really matter much18:42
nanderThe railways fail18:42
nanderBut the roads are very passable18:42
TMavicaTeemu: Hong Kong, take 12 hours flight to there18:42
TMavicatime18:42
Teemuah okay18:42
Teemuforget the bring warm clothing thing then18:43
Teemubuy them from .fi18:43
Accenander: sorry I'm failing with context today, didn't realize you were speaking about Netherlands ^^'18:43
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nander;)18:43
Teemuhk idea of warm clothing for a cold night suits finnish summer very nicely18:43
TMavicalol18:43
Teemuno, really18:43
nanderI'm going18:43
TMavicai already bought a North face18:43
Teemui'm serious, you have no idea :)18:43
nanderIt's litterally like a freezer18:44
Teemunorthern finland normal weather is worse than freezer18:44
TeemuTHEN it is windy on top of that18:44
Accewell, even if you come with light clothing, you'll learn fast and make local shopkeepers happy18:44
Teemunorth face makes nice gore tex jackets for summer18:45
Teemuwhen it's cold you need to dress in layers18:45
Teemulike ogres, ogres have layers18:45
suosaaskiTeemu: It's kinda fun to see some people complain it is colder than they have ever had and they have like -5C, at the same time having -30C and windy outside :)18:46
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Teemusuosaaski :)18:46
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Nicd-I've done some C++ programming in -32°X18:47
Nicd--32°C18:47
Teemui'd like to see programming in -32K18:47
Accelol18:47
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Nicd-I'd like to see anything at -32K18:48
Teemuanyway TMavica and coderus most cities in .fi are small enough to walk out of light pollution area18:48
suosaaskiOf course, on the other hand, they think +25C is normal and I'm like "holy shit it's hot, I'm staying inside until the weather is something that a living organism doesn't boil in"18:48
TeemuNicd-: programming is anything, so yes18:48
Accenot as good as you, but programming mcu in C at skijump ramp when it's raining: http://foximity.net/kaikkea/2014-09-25%2011.31.39.jpg18:49
Teemusuosaaski: :) yes, in hospitalityclub settings i remember some people from india complain about the cold nights in finnish august when all the natives were going naked because it was so warm18:49
Nicd-Acce: hey, I know you!18:50
Teemuas in, not bothering to dress any five hours post sauna since it was just warm enough to drink beer naked on a terrace18:50
AcceNicd-: from tampere dev meetings?18:50
TMavicaI will go Tampere18:51
coderusTMavica: http://goo.gl/6FQlDA18:51
Teemuare you from 5w?18:51
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AcceI did visit 5w somewhat regularly in spring.. now it has been too busy in the autumn18:51
Nicd-Acce: from technomonster university18:51
TMavicacoderus: driving will so tired...18:52
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Accehopefully spring will be better wrt. free time18:52
TMavicacoderus: and how many room you booked if you travel like this?18:52
Teemucoderus are you from russia then?18:54
coderusTemeV: what about bus prices?18:54
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coderussorry, Teemu18:55
AcceNicd-: hmm where have you seen me there? around Ttalo I guess?18:55
Nicd-coderus: you can check bus timetables and prices here: http://www.matkahuolto.info/lippu/en/18:55
Nicd-Acce: at school, yep18:55
Teemuso we have guys from tut.fi but not from aalto.fi?18:56
TMavicacoderus: I prefer take public transport, so you can see the sight around and take photo18:56
Nicd-Teemu: I know some here from a?a!lto=?! too18:57
TMavicadrive car, you will tired and lost way, LOL18:57
AcceWe really should arrange some sailfish dev meetup again18:57
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coderus27 euro one ticket o_O18:58
TMavicaI think have day pass of that??18:59
just4infoAcce, let's make it in austria?18:59
coderusAcce: yeah, please in 28 Dec - 10 Jan :D18:59
TMavica26/12 - 4/118:59
coderusMy Finland trip route: http://goo.gl/6FQlDA19:00
Shinryuuwelcome to Finland19:00
TMavicalet me date marc for a meal19:00
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Nicd-coderus: public transit in finland is pretty expensive (between cities)19:01
Shinryuuwhat are you going to do in Finland?19:01
sharpnelicoderus: If you're driving that just think: 1.7¤ per liter of gasoline ;)19:02
coderusHehe, traveling by car cheaper :D19:02
Shinryuu^19:02
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coderussharpneli: yep, just calculated19:02
Accecoderus: hmm I'm not sure if I'm in FInland at that time :( but you can of course have the meeting without me19:02
TMavicacoderus: you will lose way19:02
ShinryuuI live near Oulu19:02
coderusTMavica: no GPS coverage in Finland? :O19:02
TMavicait is troublesome19:02
coderusTMavica: rreally? you driving a car? :D19:02
Nicd-gasoline is actually 1.6 € or lower now I think19:02
TMavicano, i take public transport19:03
Nicd-biogas would be significantly cheaper :)19:03
coderusTMavica: driving and navigation is very easy :D19:03
locusfoh you are driving through Kuopio :)19:03
coderusi want to cover as much as i can19:03
Teemuyou live in viipuri?19:03
TMavicadrive me then, I pay u transport fee, LOL19:04
Accejust4info: hmm Austria is bit far for me :D but it'd be cool if we had some kind of over-the-net-joint event19:04
wazdhello all19:04
TeemuTMavica: that makes sense, combined trip through finland19:04
Teemuyou cold make it a #jollamobile event like setok did with traveling salesman thing19:04
coderusTMavica: dont know :)19:05
coderusTMavica: will think ;)19:05
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just4infoAcce, i did clearly propose Austria without any personal interest, kanguroos and stuff, you know? :P19:05
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coderuslocusf: i will be glad if someone can meet me in these cities with hot tea and stories, route suggestions and etc :)19:05
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Accejust4info: mmm wouldn't kangaroos be Australia :)19:06
Teemucoderus: i'm in vihti near helsinki19:06
just4infoAcce, ahh an over-the-net event, sounded more like you want a convention19:06
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locusfcoderus: I don't have a drivers license so don't know about the routew but tea and stories can do :)19:07
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TMavicacoderus: from now, how many room u booked?19:07
Accejust4info: yeah, offline meeting also, but that's probably for people around Finland19:08
just4infoAcce, nope, kangaroos are obviously in austria, one is currently sitting next to me. In australia it's a way too cold for them ;)19:08
coderuslocusf: well, just info about roads, weather and cool stuff we can visit on the way i mean :))19:09
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locusfcoderus: sure :)19:09
coderusTMavica: nothing yet19:09
coderusstill not sure about dates19:10
coderusand where to live :D19:10
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coderuslocusf: good :)19:10
coderuswill post detailed info about trip in the middle-end Dec19:10
TMavica....time is going19:10
entilso I just registered to the textsecure mailing list and posted a bunch of questions regarding websockets etc needed for developing a client19:10
entildunno when I'll get to work on the qt5 client library again, but the next step should be pretty easy19:11
just4infoAcce, too bad, i doubt that anyone of the poor students here (including me) got a chance to meet in Finland, well maybe it's possible after we got our TOH projects ready for kickstarter :)19:11
coderusTMavica: it's why i'm asking here now :)19:11
TMavicait is not easy to book a room19:12
coderusmaybe some hostel rooms in Helsinki for a rent?19:12
TMavicabudget??19:14
coderus20-25 per day19:15
coderusbtw, full trip route: http://goo.gl/WsGRjU19:16
Nicd-now that we're speaking of roadtrips, here's one I want to make :) http://her.is/uLyono19:16
frieseuuh, finland-trip? really wanted to do that this year - maybe 2015 :)19:16
TMavica20 -25 euro!?19:16
Nicd-coderus: you're gonna drive 6 000 kilometers to finland?!19:17
coderusNicd-: yes19:17
coderusTMavica: yes, what wrong?19:17
TMavicayou not take plane!?19:17
coderusTMavica: ?19:17
TMavicadriving from russia to finland?19:18
coderusTMavica: yes19:18
TMavica...19:18
TMavicayou are the man19:18
entilcoderus: where are you in russia? :O19:18
coderusits 3000 one side19:18
coderusentil: Chelyabinsk19:18
entilsounds like the chinese border19:18
coderus3000 km from me to finland19:18
friesei'd like to do that from germany, problem is if you don't want to travel by ferry you need to travel from germany to russia and then on to finland :)19:19
coderusentil: check link http://goo.gl/WsGRjU19:19
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entilcoderus: ok, not exactly chinese border yet ;)19:20
TMavicahow much time from your location to finland by car...?19:20
friesehumm, with ferry it's 1700km to tampere, not as far as i thought...19:20
Sail0rwhy don't you fly and take a car their19:20
coderusfrom Chelyabinsk to finland border: http://goo.gl/QodoYB19:21
tuomasjj1asanenfriese: Germany -> Denmark -> Sweden -> Finland ;)19:21
coderusSail0r: plane is too expensive :)19:21
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friesedenmark -> sweden works without ferry? didn't know that :)19:22
Sail0rnot more expensive then so many gas19:22
tadzikplanes are super annoying19:22
tuomasjj1asanenfriese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge19:22
tadzikwell, the whole airport security bullshit and all that19:22
entilnow I got addicted to the street vew of chelyabinsk19:22
friesehmm, almost 8km of bridge - nice, didn't know that exists :)19:22
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entilkopeysk, chelyabinsk oblast19:22
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just4infotadzik, try to bring your soldering equipment to an airport, i'm sure you'll be asked funny questions :)19:23
coderusSail0r: more19:23
sharpnelicoderus: Holy... You're driving all the way?19:23
friesehumm, went to an airport with my toughbook rugged laptop once... got almost every test the customs officers had to offer :)19:23
tadzikjust4info: yeah, that's one of the things :)19:24
coderussharpneli: yes19:24
just4infotadzik, i worked on a hardware project once, and built it into a suitcase to keep it portable, i wouldn't have gone for thousand bucks even near an airport, not nowadays :P19:26
tadzikheh, well, you can always have it as a checked-in luggage19:26
tadzikI wondered what's the minimal size of that, when I was thinking about buying a swiss army knife19:26
TMavicacoderus: you driving lamborghini??19:27
just4infotadzik, why are there blinking status lights? why are there that many cables? is this realy a battery pack? is this a bomb?....^^19:27
tadzikjust4info: I'm considering setting goatse or something similar as my wallpaper for all these "please open your laptop" situations19:27
entilcoderus: chelyabinsk looks real beautiful19:29
just4infotadzik, better show them a login screen to your crypted harddrive...chances are good that you'll drag home a trojan the other way...19:29
coderusif you're interested this is my last trip i made by car: http://goo.gl/pW8Ptp19:29
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entilfound the airport and all19:29
entilcoderus: what car do you drive?19:30
tadzikjust4info: nah, they never look that far inside19:30
coderusentil: if you remove all garbage from the streets yes, it's attractive city. but it's russia and garbage is everywhere you look.19:30
coderusentil: TMavica: driving Ford Fusion :)19:30
entilcoderus: didn't really see that, just noticed that I spent a lot of time as a kid driving through places like that in central helsinki19:30
entilcentral FINLAND19:30
entildamnit :D19:30
entiland any picture of summer is nice in this weather :|19:31
sharpneliYes. entil's car is a legend.19:31
TMavicaI guess is either Lamborghini or Ferrai...19:31
entilsharpneli: haha, haven't had a car in years, but it all started with my parents' opel kadett of 1984...19:31
just4infotadzik, if i recall it right there were cases where computers got magically infected during duty checks19:31
just4infotadzik, that's where they found the first cases of state-trojans19:32
tadzikjust4info: well, I've never seen them doing anything more than just glancing at the screen an keyboard to see if it's indeed a laptop. Even TSA19:32
TMavicacoderus: if yours car sudden out of order when going to finland....19:32
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friesehmm.. furthest i've ever driven on car: http://goo.gl/0nrY6c not that far really :)19:33
coderusTMavica: car going to full service before my trips :)19:33
entilno idea about the ford fusion but it sounds modern enough that it'll probably make the trip :P and if it's not new, it's got to be well-maintained19:33
just4infotadzik, when i first heared that they want you to turn your computers/phones on my first thought was: cool, means they can index them :P19:34
tadzikjust4info: I think you're being paranoid :)19:34
tadzikor rather: unneceserilly paranoid19:34
just4infotadzik, released yesterday: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance?SID=skim66960X1514734Xb6e35e86828ca765e32b555d073c9abe&API1=100&API2=7596969&cjid=759696919:35
tadziktoo long, didn't click19:35
tadzikscreen not wide enough :)19:35
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just4infotadzik, http://tinyurl.com/n5f6d3519:36
tadzikthank you19:36
just4infoyw19:36
tadzikwell, I don't see how that changes the airport situation in any way :)19:37
coderusentil: yep, very well maintained, aind it's 2008 production19:37
just4infotadzik, by chance you speak german? in this case i could link you to the airport situation :)19:37
friesehumm... my car gets 21 next year :)19:37
coderusTMavica: you gong to north before new year?19:37
coderusgoing*19:37
just4infotadzik, anyways, read through the previouse link, pretty interesting, sounds like they discovered a new "stuxnet"19:38
TMavicacoderus: yes19:39
TMavica26/12 - 4/1 in HEL19:39
coderuswe're plaing to travel north finland after new year19:39
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coderusnew year in helsinki and then traveling most part of fin19:41
TMavicanew year in Hel is a must19:41
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coderusyse19:42
coderusyes*19:42
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TMavicaI have a question, will the transport or shop closed during chritmas period??19:42
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coderusso look: in helsinki before 4 Jan, and then week for traveling finland19:42
sharpneliIs there something Jolla related happening on new year?19:43
coderussharpneli: i wanna know that also :)19:43
TMavicacoderus: so we can celebrate together, LOL19:43
entilI can't make it on new year's eve but really interested in a meetup if something's happening on the other days19:44
coderusTMavica: ure, if you join you can save my budget a lot :)19:44
TMavicaI can invite you a dinner if you come, LOL19:44
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coderusTMavica: you cook some chinese food? :D19:45
TMavicaI dont know how cook, also not chinese food in finland i think19:45
TMavicano chinese food19:46
raa700_basically whole finland is closed 24th-26th19:46
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Acceexcept ABC19:47
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Stskeepsand don't even think about buying alcohol after 9pm..19:47
VDVsxalso January 1 and 619:47
coderusTMavica: i have roommate from china, he cooked a lot of china dishes in Chelyabinsk very well ;)19:48
TMavicaraa700_: how about transport?19:48
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coderusTMavica: i had rommate ofc.*19:49
VDVsxthey should run on Sunday time tables in the cities19:49
coderusin past :)19:49
TMavicaI dont have time learn cooking, LOL19:49
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TMavicaStskeeps: will you in finland that period?19:50
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Stskeepsheck no19:50
Stskeeps:P19:51
TMavicayou will own me a meal, man19:51
coderussure, why sitting home :D19:51
Stskeepsi'll probably be on vacation and relaxing :P19:51
Stskeepsi try to avoid december in finland19:51
coderusthats what i mean :)19:52
Morpog_PCvacation is a codeword for even more work :D19:52
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lpotterI always seem to do connectivity testing when I holiday...19:53
coderuswhen i'm in finland i want to visit jolla and install u12 on my device :P19:54
TMavicacoderus: probably it is closed19:56
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japa-fiI'm about to purchase cheap jolla (€249). Do I need to purchase separate "the other half"?20:12
tadzikno20:12
Stskeepscomes with a standard white one20:12
japa-fiAh, ok.20:13
coderusStskeeps: no more aloe free toh? :(20:13
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Morpog_PCcoderus, the guy who gave the code got the aloe cover, not the buyer20:15
* Morpog_PC got a free aloe cover :D20:15
swift110_hello all20:17
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japa-fiNow I've done it. Total impulse purchase: Jolla.20:23
TMavicacoderus: I can sell one for u, i purchase in HK20:23
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Bysmyyr_japa-fi:  \o/20:24
japa-fiThough I already know what I'll be missing from my N900: The FM transmitter.20:24
tadzikoh yes20:24
japa-fiBut on the other hand, I can leave my N900 to my car as my car mediaplayer/source.20:24
japa-fiIt's the only place I use the FM transmitter..20:24
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swift110_really20:30
* stephg could do with a new aloe cover, wore it by far the most, and they crack20:30
stephgho hum, will just have to buy another one :)20:31
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tadzikheh, mine just got loose at the bottom20:31
stephgmy 3d printed one got loose, but non of the officials20:32
tadzikI guess that's what happens when, in the spirit of true nokia tradition you remove the back cover by ripping it apart from the phone20:32
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louisdkAre there a question on together.jolla.com regarding the Jolla Phone and future support? :)20:57
swift110_hmm20:58
swift110_im downloading jolla sdk for linux and wondows20:58
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Stskeepslouisdk: https://together.jolla.com/question/63989/jolla-tablet-sailfishos-2-what-about-update-9/#post-id-6419620:58
Stskeepslouisdk: we aren't (yet) putting out another phone and all of us developers use jolla1 phone.. we would have a rebellion on our hands if we didn't support it20:59
Stskeeps:P20:59
Stskeepsor in sailor terms, a mutiny21:00
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louisdkStskeeps, my question is more about updates in 1 year or more. People are still buying the device today and I'm afraid it would be too low speced to still get updates in a year. Also my big concern is about future TOH compatibility. I really don't know if it's safe to buy the TOHKBD. It's not cheap and I don't want to own expensive if it's for an outdated phone.21:04
Stskeepslouisdk: i don't think low speeced will be the problem21:04
Stskeepsi've ran sailfishos on a alcatel one touch fire.. performance isn't the problem21:05
kimmoliohm, http://www.talklikeapirate.com/21:05
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VDVsxperfect for next Jolla party :P21:07
AL13NStskeeps: O.o a mutiny... that's make the whole thing complete, wouldn't it21:07
louisdkStskeeps, hope so. Should people buying TOH accessories worry about compatibility with future phones?21:08
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Stskeepslouisdk: not in a position to really say yes or no to that..21:08
Stskeepsalso because i don't know21:08
AL13Notoh, the TOH specification looks pretty good and extensible to me... it would make no sense if in the future jolla would make a new phone (IF) and they wouldn't use the same TOH's ?21:09
Stskeepsi've myself bought a TOHKBD.21:09
Stskeepsor pledged, rather21:09
Stskeepsso21:09
louisdkStskeeps, okay thx.  Will create a tjc ticket then :)21:10
svuorelais the TOHKBD guy hanging around in here ?21:10
Stskeepsdirkvl, kimmoli and wazd?21:11
svuorelaoh.21:11
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* stephg just got handed chocolate cake21:11
louisdksvuorela, there's an irc channel called #jollatohkbd for TOHKBD questions :)21:12
kimmolisvuorela: guilty21:12
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svuorelakimmoli: are you also involved in the blinking led toh ?21:13
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kimmoliLeTOH , yes21:14
svuorelakimmoli: if I order one today, when do you ship? - and by which company do you ship ?21:14
kimmolithose will be shipped from Holland by dirk. we are waiting for the assembled pcbs to arrive21:15
* svuorela have had enough for a while of recieving stuff with fedex21:15
kimmoli:)21:16
kimmolistandard post21:16
svuorelainteresting. maybe I should try one while I wait for the keyboard21:16
kimmolihave toholed already ? :)21:17
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svuorelano21:17
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kimmolithere are still plenty available, few for shipping before xmas21:20
kimmoliso if someone knows someone who has everything (inc jolla) would make nice present :)21:21
svuorelaI was considering a present for the person I see in the mirror.21:21
kimmolioo21:22
kimmoliusually those presents are the best ones..21:22
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kimmoliand not "plastic egg-shaped thingie that you place to kettle with eggs, and it shows how well they are cooked"21:23
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louisdkIn which situations would you use a tablet rather than a smartphone/computer?21:26
svuorelalouisdk: youtubing in bed.21:26
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HtheBcoderus: ping21:27
Tegusvuorela: who are you stalking with that periscope?21:27
svuorelaTegu: with what periscope?21:27
Teguthe one with the mirrors21:28
svuorelaTegu: oh. only some hot dude.21:28
Tegualready buying presents and all :)21:29
svuorelasometimes he even sleeps in my bed.21:30
svuorelaand talking about bed and sleeping...21:30
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Tegunice, have a good night ;)21:31
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coderusis there something CHEAP in Finland?21:45
coderusAnd what present you want as present from me from Russia?21:45
sharpneliNothing is cheap in finland.21:47
Stskeeps+121:48
TemeVwell, electricity and mobile plans are reasonably priced, but I don't think it is of interest for traveller :D21:49
wazdWith current EUR/RUR ratio I'm not sure I'll spot any difference :D21:49
sharpneliOh yeah. Internet connections are cheap as #%%"#?21:49
sharpneli350mbps for 60e per month21:49
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TemeVquite expensive, I've 100/100 for 16EUR/month21:50
sharpneliYeah. I kinda went for the "Give me faster!" path. But internationally it's still quite cheap21:50
wazdyeah, but it's 36021:50
TemeVwell, actually now that I recalculate, it's quite the same price21:50
wazd350*21:50
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MSameercoderus: tap water :P22:02
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TemeVOh yeah, water is usually free in bars and many restaurants22:05
TemeVsomething I missed in Germany22:06
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FireFlyIt's so hard to wrap your head around the concept of bottled still water when you're used to just drinking from the tap22:07
FireFlyAt least to me22:08
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TemeVWell, in Germany tap water was ok, so I just drank that22:08
TemeVBut locals really liked their bottled still water22:08
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Ezkoi've never bought bottled water in finland22:16
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sharpneliI have. For car trips etc. And then I reuse the bottle for a week or so.22:18
Ezkoi always have empty soda bottles that i use for water22:19
sharpneliI don't really drink small bottles of soda so that's the prime reason.22:19
sharpneliOtherwise I'd naturally use those.22:20
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swift110_lol22:22
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Ezkosharpneli: use a big bottle22:26
Ezkoboooooom22:26
swift110_ok22:28
sharpneliAnnoying to carry :p22:28
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swift110_yes22:29
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