#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2014-12-10

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sledgesdarn uk xmas dinners, missed all the $1.75M fun %)00:03
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chem|st;)00:09
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chem|stso battery and USB-C 3.1 are the most voted hardware requests on TJC, hope we get the USB port, the battery is just fine, 30% less battery for a system that even on windows uses 30% less power - I learned from my netbook that linux is about 20% more efficient than windows (comparison is debian whezzy VS winXP though)00:11
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iekkukimmoli, thanks for pinging03:28
Cal-Dronehii hoo03:31
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tiwakeoh nice, 1.8mill05:25
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tiwakewho is staying up for the kickstarter to end?05:43
Nicd-staying up? I just woke up05:46
tiwake:P05:46
ryukafalznot me, no way XD05:47
tiwakealmost 10pm, I'm good for another couple hours05:50
salyavinCalifornia?05:53
tiwakeoregon05:53
tiwakeclose :305:53
salyavinNo phone for you :(05:54
tiwakeI dont see why not though05:54
tiwakeI use T-mobile and I dont have a dataplan05:54
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tiwakeI'm not quite ready to replace my nokia N900 though05:55
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salyavinMy N900 still works great too, no USB port issue yet.05:56
japa-fitiwake, I just did. my findings after 1 week of usage: I like the calendar app on N900 better as it shows what is going to be on the next 10 days or so05:56
japa-fiI like the keyboard05:56
tiwakehmm05:56
japa-fithe UI needs some practise.05:56
tiwakeI should update my phone actually... it says there are updates05:57
salyavincssu?05:57
tiwakeis there a community repository I should be using?05:57
salyavinhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU05:58
japa-fiI don't like that on jolla you just can't scroll trough all your contacts, but need to go by selecting first letter to see all contacts starting wtih that letter etc.05:58
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tiwakeoh, that would be a bit of a pain, yeah05:58
tiwakeesp. on mine, when half of my contacts are internet people and don't remember their actual name XD05:59
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japa-fiI'm not sure if it's just me, but there is no quick way of selecting desired wlan. it's settings -> system -> wlan -> (select from the list)05:59
tiwakeis little programs like that written in C++ or python or something?06:00
japa-fithough it does connect to one of the saved ones if it detects it06:00
salyavinMildly partucularly as many of my contacts are in asian languages so more than just alphabet06:00
japa-fiI like jolla's cpu power. N900 just started struggling these days on most of the websites06:00
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japa-fiI like how the screen is smooth and scratch free06:01
japa-fi(my n900 is scratched by the very stick which came with the n900)06:01
salyavinN900 had a plastic screen that refuses to break ;P06:01
salyavinJolla is hugely faster06:01
salyavinmore active OS development on Jolla06:02
tiwakeactive development is more important to me really06:02
salyavinI thought the combined feed screen on Harmattan was interesting.06:02
salyavinYea your tablet will help.  CSSU for N900 is not dead but nothing like Sailfish06:02
tiwakesoftware isnt perfect, but all software isnt perfect. If its being worked on, things will always be getting closer to perfect06:02
japa-fiI'm still trying to get used to quasarMX (the music player), but I instantly bought it (4.99e) just to encourage the developer06:02
salyavinSince PDA days are gone I try to avoid the batman utility belt although a music player will help save phone battery.06:04
japa-fiMy second player is sansa clip. Nice and small :)06:05
tiwakeyay for coke and cherry rum06:05
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japa-fiThere are some things that are not 100% clear to me on jolla. For example on desktop, some of the "preview" windows show clearly an action icon. For example quasarMX has play / stop buttons. But I can't activate those actions on dektop, instead I get the application maximised, after which i can do what I want.06:12
tiwakelets see how broken I can make my N90006:12
japa-fiOr twitter client has "refresh" button, but the same thing...06:12
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japa-fiis it just me, or is this how it's supposed to work?06:13
covoxjapa-fi: try swiping left/right on the application tile06:15
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salyavinNo.  You in the "multitasking" screen on Sailfish you see yhose actions and say tweetian you go left to refresh twitter and right to tweet06:15
salyavinyes like covox said go left or right06:15
japa-fiOk, thanks for the info06:16
japa-fiWow, that's cool!06:17
japa-fi(just playing, literally, with quasarMX controls now)06:17
covoxjapa-fi: I feel for you re. the plastic N900 screen, managed to gouge mine in exactly the same way06:17
covoxnot a good idea making the screen out of a lower scratch-resistant plastic than the stylus06:18
japa-ficovox, On my n900 screen, the spot that I hit the stick to scroll pages is clearly visible as it has worn noticeably :)06:18
tiwakeI have one little scratch on mine06:19
covoxI tried to replace mine06:19
tiwakeits only noticeable when scrolling06:19
covoxthat was a really bad move06:20
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covoxended up with two broken screens... luckily I found a chop-shop with access to first-party replacement parts06:21
salyavinUSB port seems to not be secured strongly enough either on the N900 from what I gather on forums.06:21
salyavinwow.  I had to reglue a N9 screen that popped loose after it took a shock.  Took it apart and reglued it to the frame and it works great.06:22
salyavinJolla doesn't feel as strong but nothing happened to it yet.06:22
tiwakedropped my N900 once or twice to cement floor06:23
salyavinme too06:23
salyavinno issue for me06:23
salyavinnot that I care to repeat it06:23
tiwakeyeah06:23
tiwaketiny scuff mark on the aluminum around the screen06:24
salyavinIf Neo900 ever gets anywhere you gonna upgrade the boards?06:24
tiwakeneh06:24
covoxnup06:24
tiwakeI want a J2 phone :P06:24
salyavinThat's what I'd like too.06:24
covoxwaiting on TOHKBD06:24
salyavinsylus has it's uses like openstreetmap updating or drawing but I like one-handed operation like N9 and Jolla a lot.06:25
salyavinUse the other arm for something else like holding a kid ^-^;;06:25
salyavinMaybe in a year, no real rumors yet about a Jolla 2 that I have heard.06:26
salyavinI'm sure they are concentrating on the tablet for now06:26
covoxit'll happen soon06:27
japa-fiI've dropped my n900 like 5 times. Each time scaring the shit out of me as I've broken 2 or 3 nokia communicators by dropping them06:27
japa-fi(they split to half06:27
covoxthey've been carpet-bombing 100EUR discounts left and right for rev1 :)06:27
japa-fisalyavin, I tried the OSM based mapp application, just for few mins. I still couldn't quite figure the UI when I wanted to DL the maps for offline use06:27
salyavinOSM does not allow bulk download of tiles.06:28
japa-fiAnd... is there private browsing mode with jolla's browser (no history, no cookies)06:28
japa-fisalyavin, I used marble on N900, it could download tiles for offline use06:29
japa-fiI think the jolla app states the same functionality06:29
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japa-fiJust that I don't know when it DLs the tiles for offline use and when not..06:29
japa-fiMarble is one of the apps I'd love to see on jolla. It had navigation (road nav) options too. So I don't need to depend on commercial software (here maps)06:30
salyavinhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy yea marble had some ability to do offline, not sure how big of an area but you're right06:30
salyavin"Bulk downloading is strongly discouraged. Do not download tiles unnecessarily.06:31
salyavinIn particular, downloading significant areas of tiles at zoom levels 17 and higher for offline or later usage is forbidden without prior consultation with a System Administrator. These tiles are generally not available (cached) on the server in advance, and have to be rendered specifically for those requests, putting an unjustified burden on the available resources. "06:31
japa-fisalyavin, basically you manually selected area and downloaded some zoom levels. It's pita if you want a state map. I did use it for downloading a part of berlin while I was going to visit berlin06:31
japa-fiI don't think it even was possible to go beyond 1706:32
japa-fiYes, just checked. Max zoom for DL is level 1606:33
japa-fiOh, I have rome as the last place I've used marble :)06:34
salyavinDon't know of a private browsing mode per say but you know about settings, application, click on browser and privacy settings right?06:34
japa-fiLearn new every day :)06:34
japa-fithanks06:34
salyavinDo not track is one option there but private browsing windows like firefox I don't think it can do06:35
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tiwakewhat should my catalogs look like on my N900?06:39
Nicd-covox: jolla 2 coming out soon would really piss off the userbase. I don't think it's happening06:45
tiwakeI don't expect a J2 to come out until sometime after the tablet06:45
zuttoNicd-: wouldnt the userbase just be excited to get new device rather than angry?06:47
zuttoO.o06:47
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zuttoi just got my jolla and i would be very intrested in the new one06:47
Nicd-zutto: no, because they have been pushing out the old one with a discount and a lot of people have bought it just now06:48
salyavinMany major brands can come out with a phone every few months and not piss off their userbase.  Jolla has been over a year.  That said I feel they don't have near enough manpower to get another phone released for at least a year with the tablet coming and Sailfish 2, split screen and all that.  Jolla Oy is quite small.06:48
Nicd-also it would ruin tohkbd206:48
zuttowell the keyboard thing would be sad06:48
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zuttoits something i really want for my jolla06:48
zuttobut i wouldnt mind new version being released otherwise06:48
Nicd-and of course all other tohs (I don't think it will have compatibility)06:48
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zuttothere isnt that many tohs out there for it to be so big deal tho06:49
entilI don't see why another phone wouldn't fit the same dimensions as the first06:49
entilmaking tohs compatible06:49
Nicd-it would also require the power and i2c and nfc in the same places06:51
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salyavinMaybe they will announce something at the next Slush06:51
Nicd-not to mention the camera06:51
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salyavincamera, power and volume buttons, power connector, audio jack, flash06:53
Nicd-yeah, I think it limits too much06:54
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covoxNicd-: why would they break TOHs?07:03
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Nicd-covox: because I don't think the next phone will be compatible07:04
covoxokay, it places constraints on the design, but there's no reason to redesign the body in rev207:04
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Nicd-well, I've heard many people complain that Jolla looks ugly and the corners are too sharp / painful07:05
covoxreal people or commenters?07:06
Nicd-real people07:06
Nicd-in real life07:06
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covoxopinions differ I guess07:07
tiwakesharp corners tend to form cracks easier07:08
tiwakethats why airplane windows are all rounded07:08
covoxI have the same revulsion towards fake plastic-backed brushed aluminium, yet samsung sold a shitload of galaxy S5s07:08
Nerfiaux_my jolla fell several times and no cracks at all07:08
tiwakejust saying :P07:09
salyavinhttp://www.jollatides.com/2014/11/27/tohkbd-meet-the-maker-interview/ " If Jolla keeps compatibility with the current TOHs, then… well… they would be idiots."07:09
salyavinDirk07:09
tiwakewhen machining, or designing a part thats under stress, rounded corners perform better than sharp ones07:09
Nerfiaux_i have marks on edges and that is all07:09
Nerfiaux_Dirk has found a business, he wants a tohkbd V207:10
salyavinThat's a real person for you :P07:11
salyavinWell maybe07:11
salyavinI think it would be very difficult to keep compatability and rise the cost of the phone.07:11
covoxmmm... that downsides list07:12
salyavinYou read the downsides right?07:12
covoxI don't really agree with all of those07:12
Nicd-Nerfiaux_: this is already tohkbd version 2... :P07:12
covoxe.g. I think beyond a point thickness reduction is a bad thing that compromises the stress resistance07:13
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salyavinlike flexible iphone?07:14
covoxyes :)07:14
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Nerfiaux_Nicd-: right, for me v1 is a proto no mass production as v207:14
covoxalso to get stiffness up when you make an anorexic phone, you have to make it out of very heavy material07:15
salyavinbattery size hmm maybe we need a Mugen battery TOH07:15
salyavinhttp://www.mugenbattery.com/mugen-power-extended-capacity-battery-2400mah-for-nokia-n900/07:16
Nerfiaux_jolla 2<=>tohkbd v307:16
zuttosalyavin: that would be amazing :P07:16
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Nerfiaux_i had this battery and died last may after years of services07:17
Nicd-mugen xl was awesome, I had it too07:17
Nicd-I really miss that battery life in my jolla07:17
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Nerfiaux_did you try the solar toh ?07:20
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zuttothe benefits that solar toh gives you isnt really that big :/07:21
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zuttoplus most of the jolla people will sit in offices all day long anyways07:21
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salyavinMaybe start a thread on TMO zutto and have them write mugen :P07:26
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xkr4724 minutes to gooo07:38
tiwakecountdown++07:39
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inzwouldn't -- make more sense?07:39
tiwakeits my upvote for a countdown :P07:40
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entilI don't buy all dirk's arguments, because battery size probably isn't that relevant.. the jolla stock battery packs punch like a mugen from five years ago.. and not sure phone thickness and dimensions are that relevant if the phone is good, but having components in the same places might be a real technical problem07:40
xkr47let's go complex, shall we? countdown += -1+i;07:41
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entilif jolla went with making new phones and breaking compatibility or partnering with someone who doesn't care about tohs (and why would they, they'd be crunching out two phones a year) that'd make other-halving just an expensive hobby07:41
xkr47perhaps an adapter for toh-lovers?07:42
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mekluxkr47: countdown -= -(-1+i);07:44
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entilmaybe an adaptr.. and in the future they could adopt magnets anyway ;)07:50
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tiwake9 minutes07:52
meklu7 minutes07:53
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tiwake5min07:55
Armadillo6 micro starter kits07:55
TimoIs it still running, the campaign?07:56
tiwakeless than 5min left07:56
Armadillosome minutes to go07:56
* Timo still hasn't bought one.07:56
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TimoWell, maybe later.07:56
tiwakeyou still can07:56
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tiwake3min07:57
Timotiwake: Already have an Asus Transformer (1st gen) and everything that can't be done with that I do on my laptop... Don't need another MID. :P07:58
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tiwakeoh alright :P07:58
TimoI'll probably regret that decision. :P07:59
tiwake1min07:59
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tiwake0 time left?07:59
tiwakeweird07:59
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tiwakeoh, their software must be off by one08:00
tiwakeheh08:00
tiwakeits closed now08:01
tiwake$1,824,030 raised08:02
tiwakenice08:02
TimoNice score.08:03
tiwakewait, another $25 was processed after it was closed?08:03
tiwakeweird08:03
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Stskeepsnow the real fun starts :)08:05
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tiwakereal fun has never stopped to start again08:05
tiwakeStskeeps: unless you mean a miniature party before everyone goes back to work twice as hard08:06
tiwakeXD08:06
Stskeepstiwake: /me looks around08:07
Stskeepsi don't see a party atm08:07
* Timo is partying at home.08:07
TimoWell, not really. I am happy for the sailors, though. ;)08:07
tiwakeI had some coke and rum a bit ago, I suppose that kinda counts08:08
TimoIt's more like time for coffee.08:08
tiwaketime for bed for me :P08:08
TimoA cup of coffee just after dinner/before going to bed tastes just as good as any other time of the day, tiwake. ;)08:09
tiwakeerm08:09
tiwakesorry, I kind of seriously detest coffee :P08:09
TimoOh well. :P08:10
TimoGood night, anyway.08:10
tiwakesetting up hotel reservations in april08:10
tiwakeat the moment08:10
tiwakefor a convention08:12
TimoAh.08:12
tiwakehttp://www.babscon.com/ :P08:12
TimoNot my cup of tea, but if you like it. ;)08:13
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salyavinI see split screen will be released as a Q3 update, I think that is a good decision as it would likely either have delayed the tablet or been a buggy mess if rushed too much.08:15
tiwakesounds good to me08:17
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tiwakeis jolla planning on hiring a few more people for tablet development?08:17
tiwakeor OS or w/e08:18
salyavintowake preparing his resume?08:18
tiwakeheh, no08:18
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salyavinI doubt the crowdfunding even will be enough to turn a profit on the tablet but it did generate buzz08:19
tiwakeunless jolla is looking for a machine shop in USA to produce something08:19
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salyavinDid you get the case too?08:20
tiwake..?08:20
tiwakewhat case?08:21
salyavinhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet#208:21
salyavinI got an update when it was added via email some time back08:21
tiwakeoh, yeah, I got one of those08:21
tiwake"enh, why not... it would be nice to have a nice cover, and its for jolla's crowdfunding" so I got it08:22
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salyavinMe too.  I think it looks nice.08:23
Teemumachine shop sounds good08:23
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tiwakethere is a chance I will be machining my own covers though out of aluminum and anodizing them myself08:23
salyavinCool, yea you could probably make some nice custom covers08:24
salyavinmaybe help with keyboard TOH v3 :P08:24
tiwakeI have two different dyes, I plan on splash anodizing everything, and maybe some mask-anodizing too :308:25
meklualuminum keycaps! ":D"08:25
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tiwakeheh08:25
Teemuink spot custom case08:25
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Teemubeware of anybody who actually sees anything in them08:26
meklurorschach tests, eh?08:26
salyavinwow never heard of them or seen them before.  inkspotmemphis.com right?08:26
tiwakeI dont do molding or casting or stamping...08:26
tiwakea waterjet machine would be nice though08:27
tiwakeI should get one08:27
Teemusalyavin: huh? i've got no idea on inkspotmemphis08:28
salyavinfirst google hit on inkspot case08:30
salyavinthought that was what you talked about08:31
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lainwir3dhi08:31
Teemuwas not but i may have to google it08:31
Teemudifferent 1st hit for me :)08:31
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TheBootroo|workJolla IGG campaign is over now08:34
TheBootroo|workIMHO Jolla should extend it so that we can reach the 3G modem stretch goal08:34
TheBootroo|worki'm pretty certain that the awesome community could do it08:34
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tiwakeif they had an M.2 interface, you could just plug in a 3G modem08:35
tiwakedonno if they plan on having such a thing or not08:35
TheBootroo|worktiwake: anyway for my part i'll use the Wifi tethering from my Jolla Phone08:37
AL13N_worki thought there was USB host mode?08:37
TheBootroo|workbut i know a lot of people that would buy the tablet only if it had 3G modem08:37
AL13N_workso, a usb modem could be plugged in, maybe?08:37
TheBootroo|workAL13N_work: Jolla Tablet HAS the USB OTG08:37
Teemuusb modem sounds awfully unhandy compared to using a phone hotspot for tablet connectivity08:38
Teemuawkward, even08:38
tiwakeoh yeah, maybe... plus they might get USB 3.1 type C squeezed in08:38
Teemuthings sticking out08:38
tiwakeand that, yeah08:38
tadzikalso, how many usb ports is it going to have?08:38
tiwake5 XD08:38
tiwakelol08:39
tadzikmay not be exactly handy to carry a usb hub in order to charge it while being online08:39
xkr47\o/ for $1.824M =~ 1.475M€08:39
tiwakeoh good point08:40
tiwakeI just want an M.2 for SSD, because I don't want to put in a microSD card for really low performance and much higher likelyness to fail08:41
Teemuso does the tablet have image output connector somehow mixed in with the usb?08:41
tiwakeTeemu: with USB 3.1 type C it seems it has displayport built in08:42
xkr47can you plug usb type a or b plug in usb 3.1 type c connector?08:43
xkr47or will there be usb c <-> usb a and usb c <-> usb b cables ?08:43
tiwakehttps://together.jolla.com/question/63631/request-jolla-tablet-usb-31-type-c-port/08:43
Teemuso when the usb get to u or x or something they will have incorporated every possible connection into it08:44
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tiwakenice, 4k video going through usb 3.1 type C08:47
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Teemui think 4k and 5k are much better than the abcdetcxga family of video connections08:50
Teemutechnically yes naturally but more so in the naming scheme of things08:50
tiwakeoh yeah08:50
tiwakehdtv or somesuch nonsense08:50
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tadzikimho nothing else than resolutions make any sense08:51
Teemui think it was good to get the "tv" out of it08:51
tadzikI ragequit from trying to understand this bullshit when I read about qHD and QGD08:51
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tadzikerm, qHD and QHD08:51
tadzikthe first is jolla phone, the second is one of the two variants of 4k08:51
tiwakeI mostly care about pixel density :P08:52
tiwakethe jolla tablet is going to have really nice pixel density08:52
Nicd-https://together.jolla.com/question/60898/bug-keyboard-feedback-sounds-heard-when-zooming-in-some-apps/?answer=69476#post-id-69476 -- ouch08:52
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tiwakealright, sleep time08:54
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Teemui'm just having breakfast08:57
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chem|stso igg is done... now wait for mwc and the J2 campaign ;)09:53
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RavenholmDXI'll back Jolla 2 on day one09:56
RavenholmDXproviding it's decent hardware09:56
Armadillochem|st don't be spooky09:57
Nicd-I hope there's no crowdfunding for jolla 209:57
RavenholmDXwhy not Nicd-?09:57
mornfallit's stressful :D09:57
RavenholmDXwith the success of the tablet, I'd be surprised to see them go back to a traditional preorder model09:57
RavenholmDXbut then again, they do end up giving a cut to Indiegogo09:58
RavenholmDX9% I believe09:58
mornfall409:58
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RavenholmDXI thought it's 9% if it's flexible funding?09:58
Armadilloplus credit card fees09:58
ernestiif successful 4%09:58
mornfallit's 9% for flexible funding *if* you fail to hit the goal09:58
RavenholmDXoh09:58
Nicd-because I think it's stupid for a product they anticipate will meet the goal anyway. then they'll just threaten not to give features until we give them more money like is usual with crowdfunding09:59
Nicd-I don't like it09:59
mornfallNicd-: I don't like it either, but it works09:59
mornfallit's possibly also much cheaper for early backers this way09:59
SK_workwas the ubuntu edge flexible funding ?09:59
RavenholmDXI mean, how successful of a company is Jolla?09:59
chem|stigg was a good example that jolla has no selfconfidence and no trust in their community, the most powerful community contributers in terms of linux and mobile is still and standing maemo.org!10:00
mornfallNicd-: early adoptors paid €150 extra on the phone and still didn't get the features ...10:00
SK_workchem|st: are there enough Jolla enthusiasts on (talk.)maemo.org10:01
SK_work?10:01
pp_t-shirt!10:01
SK_workI'm not sure10:01
chem|stSK_work: what do you think nieldk came from?10:01
SK_workchem|st: one person don't make a crowdfunding project stands :)10:01
SK_workeven if nieldk is a very nice member :)10:01
ggabrielSK_work: unless that person is bruce wayne :P10:02
SK_workplus, the fact that the Jolla 1 was dissapointing, Jolla might have lost many of their "followers"10:02
SK_work:D10:02
RavenholmDXIs J1 dissapointing?10:02
chem|stSK_work: I am not talking about backing a kickstarter, I am talking contributions10:02
ggabrieli appreciate the value of the publicity stunt10:02
chem|stggabriel: indeed10:02
* ggabriel likes the jolla fwiw10:02
RavenholmDXI've only had mine a week, and really like it SK_work10:02
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ggabrielotoh, this battery thing yesterday may indicate that jolla doesn't want to invest money10:03
SK_workRavenholmDX: spec wise, it's bad :)10:03
chem|stSK_work: lots of people are more comfortable with tmo than using tjc10:03
SK_workchem|st: yeah, me included10:03
ggabrielSK_work: my sony xperia has better specs and yet is slower10:03
ggabrielexplain that :P10:03
SK_workeven if I feel that TJC and TMO are two orthogonal tools10:03
ggabrieli think tmo != tjc10:03
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SK_workchem|st: problem about contributions is that they are not channeled: what if nieldk pushed all his packages to Mer / Nemo10:04
chem|stSK_work: and that will stay that way, some developers don't even like tmo and are on IRC and ML only or even just ML10:04
SK_workthat's too bad to have a split10:04
chem|stoh beware of that10:04
SK_workof what ?10:04
chem|stniel pushing all his packages to mer10:05
SK_worknot saying Jolla is not to be blamed: we need more contribution guidelines10:05
SK_workchem|st: inside Mer core ?10:05
SK_workor Mer "Nieldk" ?10:05
chem|stcore10:05
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SK_workah ?10:06
SK_workreally, that's awesome10:06
chem|stI installed some of his bash+X stuff and was lucky to have wlan on... so I could ssh in and "flying blind" enter commands to revert back10:06
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mornfall(I think there's misunderstanding going on...)10:07
RavenholmDXSK_work, I wouldn't say bad spec-wise10:07
RavenholmDXat the time, modest10:07
chem|stSK_work: he is not pushing to mer core... and I'd strongly advise not to do that without QA10:07
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RavenholmDXnow, not so great10:07
chem|stmornfall: yeah10:07
RavenholmDXJolla 2 needs to be 1080p10:07
chem|stRavenholmDX: you are drunk10:07
RavenholmDXhow so?10:08
ggabriel"needs"10:08
SK_workchem|st: for some packages, there could be QA, Jolla-side10:08
mornfallall it needs is better specs10:08
RavenholmDXscreen resolution is a spec10:08
ggabrielyou can't see so much detail10:08
ggabrielunless you aren't human10:08
mornfallRavenholmDX: 1080 as a mandatory minimum is bullshit though10:08
RavenholmDXof course you can ggabriel10:08
ggabrielreally?10:08
RavenholmDXI came from a Nexus 510:08
chem|stmornfall: but resolution isn't the thing... have it readable in bright sunlight will get you attention though10:09
RavenholmDXeven a Nexus 4 is a bit too pixelated from my liking10:09
RavenholmDXfor my*10:09
chem|stRavenholmDX: 330ppi is just fine10:09
mornfall250dpi with good contrast and sunlight readability beats 330dpi on a shitty IPS any day10:09
ggabrielbetter quality screen would be better than detail i can't see with my [human] eyes10:10
chem|stRavenholmDX: the world is not about screen size, it is abour density10:10
ggabrielyou can always hold the phone 10cm away from your eyes, but what's the point of that, it beats me10:10
RavenholmDXggabriel, think you need an optometrist visit10:11
chem|stmornfall: even 1600ppi (1.2µm raster)10:11
ggabrielRavenholmDX: i really don't think you can see so much detail without having the phone very close to your eyes10:11
RavenholmDXof course you can10:11
ggabrieliirc, the human eyes can see detial up to 0.1mm10:11
SK_workggabriel: you hold your phone close to your eyes10:11
RavenholmDXon Nexus 5 I could pretty much view desktop webpages without a need to zoom in10:12
ggabrielso, do the math10:12
mornfallggabriel: 0.1mm is *huge* :D10:12
SK_workespecially when you go to sleep :)10:12
chem|stRavenholmDX: there are factual limits to the human eye, most of what you see is what your brain interpolates from snippets10:12
mornfallggabriel: you can see raster much smaller than that10:12
ggabrielSK_work: well, read above.... why would i want ot hold the phone very close to my eyes?10:12
SK_workggabriel: because you are lying on your bed, and your arms tired :d10:12
mornfallggabriel: well, maybe not much... but .1mm is still definitely recognizable10:12
ggabrielSK_work: ok, so some people want 1080p to appreciate the phone when in bed10:13
mornfallggabriel: and the resolution of perception is more importantly measured in pixels per angular area, not per mm10:13
ggabrielget a tablet instead10:13
SK_workggabriel: :D10:13
ggabrielmornfall: i think i read that measurement on the assumption that your vision field is flat and that's where you calculate the .1mm, but not sure tbh10:13
SK_workwell, that's how I would appreciate 1080p phone10:13
ggabrielthere is a limit tho10:13
mornfallggabriel: .1mm only matters at a fixed distance10:14
ggabrielSK_work: agree on that one10:14
RavenholmDXIf Jolla 2 isn't 1080p10:14
RavenholmDXthey'll be making a big mistake10:14
RavenholmDXlook beyond your needs10:14
RavenholmDXthe device will be a laughing stock10:14
mornfallwell, a fullhd screen will need 4G of RAM will need ARM6410:14
ggabriel...and more battery10:14
RavenholmDXwhat are you on about?10:14
RavenholmDXNexus 5 doesn't have 4GB of RAM or a 64 bit processor10:15
ilpianistaapp submitted 11 days ago and still didn't approved/rejected :-(10:15
ggabrielnexus 5 is rubbish10:15
RavenholmDXHAHAHA10:15
SK_workI would like some nice resolution, not huge resolution. But I'm not against more CPU, more RAM and more batt10:15
chem|stRavenholmDX: again, talking like that is unqualified BS... you are about ppi and not about resolution10:15
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SK_workilpianista: ping nazanin on #sailfishos10:15
ilpianistaSK_work: ok, thanks10:15
chem|stRavenholmDX: and nexus has another big problem, android!10:16
ggabrielyou can run sailfish on the nexus 510:16
ggabrielwith a bit of work10:16
RavenholmDXor Ubuntu Touch10:16
SK_workthe biggest problem ATM with Nexus 5 is: Android Lollipop10:16
SK_workD:10:16
chem|stilpianista: guess they are occupied with u1010:16
chem|stSK_work: ;)10:16
SK_workit's just bad10:16
ggabrielit's also made by lg, which makes good fridges10:16
SK_workso bad10:16
ggabrielso, reception is very bad10:17
SK_workI hate it on my N710:17
ggabrielbut you get 1080p10:17
chem|stRavenholmDX: you must be really drunk or out of drugs or something... you are talking nexus and ubuntu here!10:17
ilpianistachem|st: in that case I'll wait quietly :-)10:17
RavenholmDXYou guys are lying to yourselves if you think Jolla 2 doesn't need to at least match last gen phones when it launches10:17
SK_workwell, let's talk ubuntu :D10:17
SK_workrelease soon (c)10:17
SK_worksame as Tizen10:17
Teemuhow am i supposed to know if kitkat or lollipop or ice cream or sundae are newer versions?10:17
SK_workRavenholmDX: yep10:17
SK_workbut don't know if 1080p is last-gen10:17
SK_workor just some gadget stuff10:17
ggabrielhaha, the levels of cynicism are too dam high10:17
SK_workI want a good phone spec wise10:17
mornfalliphone6 is far from fullhd on a screen bigger than jolla10:17
chem|stilpianista: no, ping them! they just made $1.7M10:17
RavenholmDXmornfall, iPhone 6+ is full HD10:18
chem|stilpianista: if they cannot hire someone for QA now they are doing something wrong10:18
* ggabriel votes for 4K jolla 210:18
mornfallArmadillo: on a 5.5" display10:18
mornfalleh10:18
mornfallRavenholmDX: on a 5.5" display10:18
* ggabriel votes for 4K jolla 2 on a 4" display10:18
RavenholmDXiPhone 6 (regular) looks pixelated to me by the way10:18
mornfallRavenholmDX: suure :)10:19
sjtoikit's not cost effective to have a cutting edge technology10:19
RavenholmDXmornfall, once you get used to a high PPI device10:19
RavenholmDXit's harder to go back10:19
RavenholmDXsjtoik, 1080p screens aren't cutting edge any more10:19
RavenholmDXthey were last generation10:20
chem|stRavenholmDX: you know what I find very hard these days... that people think 1080p is what they need... so we get 60" LCDs with 1080p... phones with 1080p when the actual thing is we need >300ppi10:20
Teemuthere are seven billion people on the planet, more than half of which have a cellphone, how many of those are having >300ppi and thus could not tolerate anything less?10:20
mornfallyeah, 1080p is way too underpowered for a 22" LCD10:20
mornfallbut it's overpowered for a 4" phone10:20
Teemumornfall: +10:20
Nicd-well, monitors are going into the retina territory finally10:21
chem|stmornfall: I want 4k x 3k on 30"...10:21
Nicd-like laptops10:21
mornfallNicd-: show me :)10:21
mornfallNicd-: I want a desktop panel actually, though10:21
Teemuall are going to the retina territory eventually10:21
fluxit's not about dpi, it's not about resolution, it's not about size, it's about pixel angle?-)10:21
RavenholmDXWell, my money is on Jolla 2 being 5 inches10:21
sjtoikRavenholmDX: oh ok. don't care that much. i just hope that the battery life stays the same.10:21
mornfallthe smallest VA panel with 4K is what, 30"?10:21
Nicd-mornfall: imac retina, I'm expecting others to follow10:21
flux(though I suppose it's nice to have lots of pixels as well)10:21
Nicd-the imac is 5k on 27"10:22
mornfallNicd-: that's IPS junk :(10:22
Teemuquestion is, does jolla need to be there among the first or are there perhaps something more important in a phone/tablet10:22
Stskeepsthen it turns out that jolla2 is a 7.85" phablet?10:22
mornfallNicd-: with abysmal contrast10:22
Stskeeps;)10:22
chem|stStskeeps: ;)10:22
Nicd-mornfall: but it has to start somewhere10:22
chem|stStskeeps: do that, older people like that I heard!10:22
mornfallNicd-: well, yes, but I wish it was progressing a little faster :)10:22
Nicd-there are now plenty of high-res laptops and the rest moved to full hd after apple's retina push10:22
mornfallNicd-: it's been a few years since we got 400ppi screens on phones10:23
mornfallNicd-: but we have to live with 100ppi on desktop10:23
chem|stStskeeps: and add a transformer kbd to it so I can finally ditch my netbook!10:23
Nicd-mornfall: yeah, but desktop != laptop != phone. it happens separately for all of them10:23
Teemumornfall: i still remember then 720x348 pixels on a 12" screen was high res10:23
Nicd-but I don't think it's going to be long before it happens on desktop too10:23
Teemusoonish10:23
mornfallTeemu: yeah, well, I had a 14" CRT with 640x480... so yes10:24
sjtoiktwo yearish10:24
Teemunot quarterly soonish though10:24
Teemusoonish in the more realworld soonish10:24
mornfallTeemu: and a PAL TV hooked into Atari long before that :P10:24
Nicd-mornfall: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=up275k310:24
Teemumost things take a few years or so and steps are pretty small10:24
chem|stmornfall: I hook my atari to a 40" samsungLED... the picture processing of the samsung does an awesome job^^10:25
mornfallNicd-: hmm, what panel technolgy is that? (also, I probably don't have that kind of money)10:26
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Nicd-no idea10:27
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Teemunvm, it is all dirt cheap10:27
mornfallabout a $1000 plus VAT, it seems10:27
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Teemuthere was a time that could not buy a bad quality 17" crt10:27
mornfallmy current VA panels were like $300 for a pair :-)10:28
Teemunow i'm purposefully being an old fart in here10:28
Teemuanyhow just keep in mind how fast the whole ict tech is going and remember to think "welcome to the future" every now and then when you're streaming your favourite series to your remote campsite somewhere in yellowstone10:29
mornfallTeemu: that particular future didn't arrive here yet :-)10:29
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mornfallunless you carry a really big antenna and pay exorbitant sums for a data plan, at least10:30
Teemudunno what kind of net coverage you get in there10:30
Teemuin herewise you get pretty good coverage to most of finland except at parts of lapland you need to climb up a fjäll10:31
Teemuthen you can take selfies to instagram10:31
mornfallyes, we are lucky to get 2G in large swaths of the country :-)10:31
Teemuwhere's that?10:31
mornfall.cz10:31
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[MikeAce]hi.10:32
[MikeAce]yeah, we have splitscreen! :-)10:33
Stskeepswoo.10:33
[MikeAce]i would love to see a graph of how the project developed on kickstarter over time.10:34
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[MikeAce]does anybody know of a graph-view on indiegogo?10:34
[MikeAce]probably only for the campaign owners...10:35
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j-doge[MikeAce]: campaign owners have access to the graphs, I guess you could ask in t.j.c for some if you want to see them10:39
kimmolihttp://crowdlogs.com/project/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla10:46
kimmolibut tablet is not there (yet?)10:46
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kimmoliiekku: ping, can you pong me when the tohid's are in the system, so i can give some products to happy customers...10:55
[MikeAce]cool. Thats what i hoped for :-) A site which gathers this information periodically and polishes the data graphically :-)10:55
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tadzikhey Nicd-11:00
tadzikhow should I set up my weechat relay so weecrap can connect to it?11:00
Nicd-like with any relay client. you need an open port, set a password and I strongly suggest SSL/TLS11:01
tadzikyeah, I set ssl on server and choose tls on the client11:01
Nicd-remember to make it a 'weechat' relay, not 'irc'11:01
tadzikah11:01
tadzikyeah, I did. /relay add ssl.weechat <port>11:02
tadzikpassword is not set though, hm11:02
Nicd-I think the app requires a password at this stage11:02
Nicd-no sense in not having it though11:02
tadzikI wish weechat help would say anything about the password11:02
Nicd-/set relay.network.password11:03
tadzikyeah, got it11:05
tadziknow, does "error -21 Could not negotiate a supported cipher suite." ring a bell? :)11:05
mornfalljpnurmi: (people talking of irc relays) how's znc with per-client buffer replay going? :-)11:05
tadzikNicd-: ^11:05
Nicd-tadzik: let's take it to a query11:06
Nicd-paste me the errors you get11:06
tadzikokay11:06
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sqozzwait, didn't i catch something? There is a weechat relay client app for sailfish? Native or the android thingy?11:08
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zuttonative11:10
zuttobut it doesnt work yet afaik11:10
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zuttothe android weechat-relay works (latest dev atleast)11:10
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zuttoi've been using it, no problems11:10
sqozzoh wow.. where can i find it?11:10
zuttomoment11:11
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zuttohttps://github.com/ubergeek42/weechat-android11:11
mornfallI tried weechat, but I'm probably stuck with irssi for life. :P11:11
zuttoreadme has links for precompiled apk11:11
sqozzthe android app periodically crashes for me11:11
Nicd-sqozz: I'm developing a native one11:11
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Nicd-it is nearing an alpha release11:11
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zuttosqozz: the dev version doesnt crash for me11:11
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zuttoand the developers of that android relay are quite active11:11
Nicd-just worked on the buffer events last weekend actually11:11
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sqozzNicd-: cool think.. me and a friend also, i think you're first ;)11:11
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Nicd-sqozz: :O11:12
zutto:P11:12
Nicd-sqozz: do you have a release?11:12
Nicd-or code somewhere11:12
sqozz"thing" i mean!11:12
zuttoNicd-: have you considered renaming it btw?11:12
sqozzshould be on github somewhere, wait11:12
Nicd-zutto: weecrapp is just the working name :) I will have to think of a name for the store11:12
Nicd-sqozz: mine is at https://bitbucket.org/vincit/harbour-weechatrelay/overview11:12
zuttogood, good11:12
sqozzNicd-: hey, here it is: https://github.com/Bytewerk/WeeRC11:13
zuttothe weecrap name doesnt really sound too attractive :P11:13
jpnurmimornfall: done :)11:15
mornfalljpnurmi: so is it hitting a stable release soon? :-)11:15
Nicd-sqozz: I have photos here: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/110693235602405640560/albums/603524476158163012911:16
sqozzNicd-: actually it's more a lib than a native app11:16
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jpnurmimornfall: it's an external module for now at least, and requires the latest znc dev. i'm expecting the next version of znc to be released soon11:17
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Nicd-sqozz: a lib for the protocol?11:17
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mornfalljpnurmi: great11:28
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Tegutook jolla to repair. it is said to take around 2 weeks, but will see..11:31
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sqozzNicd-: jep, first step was to create a lib and after that, the interface which communitates with the lib11:33
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Nicd-mine is pretty quick and dirty. it serializes all input into QVariants which are transformed into JavaScript objects for the frontend11:33
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sqozzi don't know what exactly whats behind the linked.. i'm more the initiator of the idea, the code comes from someone else from our hackerspace ;)11:36
Nicd-maybe you can link them my code :) and see what they think of it11:36
sqozzatm i write code, which formats the weechat colorcodes into html11:36
sqozzalready did that :P11:37
Nicd-I just did that11:37
Nicd-although it does not convert them to StyledText yet, only an internal representation11:37
Nicd-here: https://bitbucket.org/vincit/harbour-weechatrelay/src/650ef57a58a9c349d7db110563dfcba78ac68e9f/qml/js/weechatcolors.js?at=master11:37
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sqozzdo you know the existing of glowingbear? it's a javascript relayclient.. maybe you could take some code from there ;)11:39
Nicd-yeah, I'm using it right now11:39
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Nicd-but the code wasn't that easy to read plus I suffer from NIH syndrome so I wrote my own once I figure out it would be easy to do with regex11:40
Nicd-figured*11:40
sqozzyeah, same applied to me :) my approach is to read the text char by char and react to the different indicator bits like 0x19 for the color11:43
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Nicd-yeah, I started with that but it got unwieldy for me quickly11:45
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iekkukimmoli, where did you send it, can't find it12:05
iekkukimmoli, found it.12:06
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kimmoliiekku: good.12:54
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TeemuNicd-: what which when where you're doing with regexen?12:55
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inteoh, the indiego campaing is over12:57
intei thought it would finish tonight (CET)12:57
intebut cool, the sold 7051 devices12:58
intenot too bad for the beginning12:58
inte:)12:58
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SK_workNow, gives us more info13:00
SK_workHW ? SW ? Roadmap ?13:00
Stskeepswait for it..13:02
Stskeeps:P13:02
Stskeepsiz coming13:02
kimmolihmm.. FPGA interfaced with pcix to soc, and 200 IO pins13:03
Teemuwhat? cool13:03
ggabrielrobotic arm13:04
SK_workpicoprojector13:04
SK_workholographic UI13:04
SK_workbrain-sensor13:05
SK_workpressure sensor13:05
tbranal probe?13:05
ggabrielgp probe13:05
ggabrielwith self cleaning13:05
tbr+113:05
Teemurobotic arm was cool for a week or so until it became all too clear that it just repeats sequences of directives without any feedback to see if the directives had the wanted action13:06
Teemu... something like 30 years back13:06
Teemucannot remember exactly13:06
ggabrielTeemu: that works for fetching beer from the fridge13:06
TeemuuPa or Prosessori had an article on a hobby robotic arm and thus we had it at home13:06
ggabrieli'm sure there'll be other uses too13:06
Teemuif you put the beers in meticulously the correct placement13:07
Teemumillimeters off and it'll just drop them all13:07
ggabrielTeemu: true, ok, we need sensors, lots of them13:07
Teemufeedback, closed loop, with short and long loops, lots of boring control theory and even more boring state machines13:07
Teemualso i prefer to prepare the caffeinated bewerage of choice manually anyway13:08
Teemuhowever i'm very interested in taking full control and automation of the generic house technology we are already using en masse, air vents, fans, heating, cooling, all that interconnected with other tech silos of today: locks, hazard detector networks, intrusion detection etc13:09
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Teemualso something on-topic about jolla/sailfishos: i'd like to see the api for using accounts opened enough that your 3rd party open source apps could use it without signing an nda13:17
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Teemuso that the browser could sign me on g+ and twitter and others if i've told the phone of my accounts13:18
tadzikaww yiss13:18
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ArmadilloTeemu there is an API which can be used via signing an nda?13:18
TeemuArmadillo: not the faintest idea13:18
Teemusome apps are using the account info13:19
Armadillo:D13:19
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Teemuso probably some api exists somewhere somewhen13:19
Armadilloapps from harbour?13:19
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Teemusome apps such as the email app and the internal twitter app and the messaging app13:19
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Teemui can chat with some people on g+ hangouts13:19
Armadillothose are apps from Jolla itself13:20
Teemuyes and this is a problem why?13:20
SK_workthere is API13:20
tbryou can create new accounts, IIRC there is open source code for account creation and foo. just not harbour kosher.13:20
SK_workthe problem about it is the privileged stuff13:20
tbrpriviledged → not harbour kosher13:20
SK_workyep, not allowed in harbour because of the privileged stuff13:20
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ArmadilloSK_work  ok, with other words we highly need harbour allowed APIs for accounts, calendar and messaging13:21
Armadillo^^13:21
Teemui'm not following, this must be somehow linked to the technical architecture and has nearly no relevance on my actual problem :)13:21
tbrArmadillo: nope, it's more complicated13:22
Teemuperhaps it needs some amount of encapsulation before they can be exposed or something13:22
Armadillotbr sure, this was a summary ;)13:22
Nicd-Teemu: I'm parsing WeeChat protocol color and attribute codes with regex13:22
tbrArmadillo: a bad summary, as it misrepresents the problems at hand, that's my point.13:22
Armadillowell this is from a app developer view13:24
tbrthe need is for the accounts system to be opened for 3rd party developers, yes13:25
tbrsimple as that13:25
Teemui'm speaking from app user view and from my viewpoint there is nearly no coherence in this, some preinstalled apps work nicely with accounts and then the browser clearly has no idea13:25
Teemuhow to actually open it up might be technically complex13:26
Teemuit needs to ne reasonably safe, easy to use from app developer point of view, whole enough to not change a whole lot all of the time etc etc etc13:27
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ahjolinnahttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/12/modular-smartphone-ara-rival-ubuntu-touch14:26
ahjolinna Title: New Modular Ara-like Phone Hopes to Offer Ubuntu, SailfishOS14:26
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tadziklegother half14:28
RavenholmDXLooks interesting14:31
RavenholmDXI can't see Google Ara ever being a thing14:31
RavenholmDXbut would be cool to see something similar come to market14:31
AL13N_workwell, at least it offers SailfishOS14:32
tadzikthe alternative does, not ara, afaiu14:32
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chem|stahjolinna: twitter reads like "go sailfish"14:35
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* pahartik would like to know if there is way to turn display on when proximity sensor is blocked and incoming voice call is in queue15:05
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Teemusuch as when the phone is in a waterproof sleeve?15:07
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ln-the power button, three times, or something. never tried.15:07
ikarustwo quick questions, can I have my jolla phone use an external bluetooth modem (shows as a phone via bluetooth) to get online and 2 is there an alternative terminal emulator, the devel one is a bit mediocre15:08
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pahartikln-: Tried again by rapidly clicking power button several times, does not seem to help15:13
ln-another way could be to unblock the proximity sensor15:14
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Teemuin the case of waterproofing, no, not really15:15
pahartikln-: It seems next update might contain that power button feature15:19
ln-ok, so i wasn't imagining it15:19
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coderusomg, 34 euro pull case for Jolla (yes, it's not Flip case as described, Flip case is http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-accessories/insmat-flip-case-for-jolla.html)15:46
coderusfor 34 euro i can get > 20 pull cases with custom prints using my images on ebay15:47
ggabrielcoderus: you forgot to mention that it's made of paper15:51
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Teemuthe insmat one?15:52
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coderuspaper? omg tiwce then15:53
coderuscool, of course it's very cool15:53
coderusbut15:53
coderusnot practical?15:53
tadzikwait wait15:53
tadzik34€ for a phone condom made of paper?15:53
coderusisn't it will be destroyed very quickly?15:53
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tadzikit'd better be made of 20€ banknotes15:55
tadzikwhere can I buy this beauty?15:55
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Stskeepshttp://shop.jolla.com/fi_fi/cat-accessories/mapbagrag-flip-case-for-jolla-code.html ?15:55
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ggabrielyup15:55
ggabrielThis unique Flip case for Jolla is hand-made of paper by mapbagrag15:56
ggabrielpaper can be strong fwiw15:56
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ggabrielnot sure how well it will resist moisture though15:56
tadzikit's environmentally friendly, so more expensive, like with organic food :)15:56
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ggabrieli cna undersstand that15:56
tadzikor those indie-colas you can buy in burger bars15:57
tadzikfairy nuff15:57
ggabrielbut i'd rather something non env friendly that lasts a lot15:57
ggabrielthan something env friendly that i have to rebuy every time it rains15:57
tadzikto each their own, I guess :)15:57
tadziknot that I don't concur15:57
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ggabrielwell, if you have to recycle something 100 times, it ends being env friendly15:57
ggabrielrecycling is tricky because there's energy used in recycling15:58
ggabrielanyway15:58
ggabrieli haven't "seen it with my hands"15:58
ggabrielso i can't say much excpet that maybe the prod description needs a little bit more assurance about the resiliency of the product15:58
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chem|stggabriel: it is washable16:06
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chem|stthe german site of mapbagrag has more choices than the jolla ones (for jolla)16:07
chem|stdon't know if just the page did not load or there is no english site for jolla16:08
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ggabrielfair, says so in the specs16:14
ggabrielstill :)16:14
chem|stonly people designing money do not know how to make waterresistant paper... (euros...)16:15
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AL13N_worktime to launder the money16:28
japa-fiIn order to use the inphone GPS by any app, I have to agree on my phone sending nokia back information on what WLAN APs are detected nearby?16:30
japa-fi(Settings -> location -> enableing it shows such item..)16:30
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Teemuwhy would it send nokia info?16:32
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japa-fi"HERE" - thought it's nokias thing16:33
Teemufunny though it's not possible to enably only gps location and decidedly not enable the wlan ap location16:33
AL13N_workhmm, the shop has almost all accessories out of stock16:33
japa-fii hate giving up any information on myself to 3rd parties. One of the reasons I didn't want to go with Android / iPhone16:34
japa-fiAnd I'd rather pay the apps by money than with my privacy16:34
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japa-fi(how come so many of the android apps require your location info (the more accurate) though the app has nothing to do with navigation nor anything location based)16:35
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Teemuoh like the flashlights?16:36
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Teemuthey're just evil and require your soul for the heck of it16:36
AL13N_workthey need location to see if you're running this in daylight or night... :-)16:37
japa-fi:)16:37
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mornfallmost flashlight android apps are spyware16:39
mornfalleven the jolla flashlight app was spyware :D16:39
mornfalljapa-fi: although most ad-supported apps will need location info because their ad provider needs it16:40
chem|stspyware==data-farming16:40
japa-fiAnyway, I'm one the the paranoid ones (even before snowden revelations). Perhaps I just should stop worrying and join facebook, install gazillion privacy invading apps and let it go. Can't be that painful as millions are doing it.16:40
chem|stis what you are saying...16:40
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chem|stjapa-fi: they already have your data16:41
mornfalljapa-fi: yeah, just give in, it'll hurt less if you don't fight it16:41
SK_workuse my jolla-settings-torch16:41
SK_workguaranteed no spyware16:41
mornfallSK_work: you should get it into harbour though16:41
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mornfall(i.e. beat jolla until they accept it)16:41
chem|stjapa-fi: my problem is that as long as I have friends that do not care, I might as well just post my contact card to reddit16:42
SK_workmornfall: no, settings plugin = no harbour16:42
mornfallSK_work: maybe the harbour policies are hurting more than helping at this point16:43
japa-fimornfall do you refer to the jolla flashlight by artem.macheko ? (and how did you find out?)16:43
Teemuchem|st: my email address has been the same from since beginning of time and other contact details have been around long enough that they're all harvested long before google started16:43
mornfalljapa-fi: there's been a pretty big rucus about it, hard to miss16:43
chem|stjapa-fi: it used to send data home in the initial release iirc16:43
mornfallchem|st: if all that facebook had on you was a contact card, they'd be pretty poor16:44
chem|stTeemu: google is one thing, they have a commercial interest in your data and behaviour patterns, the other thing is when .gov starts to take interest in it16:45
Teemumy point is, my info was already harvested by everybody so while i'm not in fecesbox it really does nothing to my privacy16:46
Teemugoogle has it, ms has it, nokia has it, all the .govs in the world have it, everyone has it16:46
mornfallTeemu: again, facebook & co. harvest *much*, *much* more data than your contact info16:46
Teemuyes they do16:47
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mornfall(even cursor movement is probably included, whenever they can get it)16:47
Teemubig govs do log the fat pipes so hanging out in irc does very little for privacy16:47
chem|stmornfall: they analyse every step you take sure, analyse pictures and so on...16:48
mornfallIRC isn't commercially interesting though16:48
Teemuits the smaller than that but still big players that need to track your cursor on the web pages etc16:48
chem|stghostery is what helps with that16:48
Teemubut yes, that's why the fecesbox like -button needs cpu power on every web page you surf even when you're not liking anything16:49
japa-fichem|st, have a look/listen to Mikko Hypponen's last TED talk. He goes on to say something along the lines: Google invests $2billion each quarter to new data centers and they still make profit. You don't pay for their services (with money).16:49
japa-fiThey make profit. Your info is valuable16:49
Teemumornfall: doesn't matter, the governments capture and analyse it at the fat pipe level that just happens to include irc :)16:49
chem|stjapa-fi: whatsapp was a pretty cheap deal as it was some around $16 per useraccount, usually you pay >$2016:50
mornfallyeah, think Skype :-)16:50
mornfallthey got what, $30?16:51
chem|styeah, minecraft too (MS is paying good for accounts)16:51
japa-fiDon't have whatsapp either, I'm consdering telegraph (telegraph.org), but I don't trust them. "Yes, it's free. No, we wont' sell your data"16:53
chem|stjapa-fi: I have a jabber.org account... that's about it16:54
japa-fiYeah, right. What's the business case then?16:54
japa-fiThere is no free lunch16:54
japa-fiAnd what's with Vyber (or viper, what ever)? I mean, you get the same stuff with SIP client, (softphone)16:54
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japa-fiJust that one needs to register and to enter manually all friend contact information instead of the app sucking all users contact data and making the connections for you16:55
japa-fibtw. Just last week I needed to call USA 1-800 number. Didn't feel like paying for it, so I fired up my N900 SIP vlient, used VOIP to PSTN gateway that allows free calling to 800 numbers and I was set. Cool!16:56
AL13N_workdon't international 800 numbers also be free?16:57
japa-fiAL13N_work, It wasn't international 800 number, free only inside usa.16:58
AL13N_work1-800 isn't free outside USA?16:58
AL13N_workthat's just weird16:58
Teemujapa-fi: oh hey but "don't be evil" was trustworthy, wasn't it?16:58
inteAL13N_work: 0080016:59
intethats free16:59
intefrom anywhere16:59
AL13N_workheh, for real16:59
inte(except for satellite phone probably)16:59
japa-fiTeemu, "don't be evil" -> "Don't get gaught being evil"16:59
AL13N_worki thought 800 numbers were always free in all countries16:59
inte;)16:59
AL13N_worki've never dialed +800 before16:59
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tbrno, only 00800, which is quite special16:59
tbramazon had one of these 10 years ago17:00
japa-fiACtually, I wasn't even able to dial that 800 number.17:00
tbrcountry specific toll free and special rate numbers are a nightmare when you try to reach them from abroad17:00
AL13N_workso, in short you have a US voip trunk17:00
tbrsometimes a toll free number when dialled from abroad might cost you more than a regular land line call, as it will be counted as "special" by your operator17:01
AL13N_workbtr: it's rejected from abroad often?17:01
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tbrother times they are unreachable or routing is broken or you get weird behaviour17:02
japa-fiI have voip account on iptel.org and they offer free calls to free  US PSTN numbers17:02
japa-fi(along with other VOIP-VOIP calls etc etc.)17:02
tbrinternational PSTN routing is a maze of twisty passages all alike if you look closer17:02
AL13N_worktbr: when does that become obsolete?17:02
tbrAL13N_work: at the current rate, never17:03
tbralso, too much money in it17:03
AL13N_workah, you mean the special numbers?17:03
tbrno17:03
tbrPSTN in general17:04
AL13N_workreally?17:04
tbryes17:04
AL13N_workbut, isn't there a lot of costs of maintenance on it?17:04
AL13N_workand then there's the whole GSM cell tower stuff17:05
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AL13N_worki'll take your word for it, but i hadn't thought so17:06
AL13N_workanyway, time to go home17:06
Teemua major leap to pstn getting obsolete was taken when fat pipes converted from atm over sdh to ethernet over sdh17:09
Teemuwell mpls but that's just another ethernet of ethernets17:09
Teemuit might be the last leap though as mpls offers circuit service better than atm ever did and pstn is just now on the same pipes as this irc conversation is17:10
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r0kk3rzhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nanosmart/talkase-the-must-have-accessory-for-a-mobile-lifes19:14
r0kk3rzyo yo dawg, i herd you like phones, so we put a phone in yo phone19:14
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raa700soo, all we need is a doublesided toh19:17
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r0kk3rzpersonally i dont see the point of it19:17
raa700or maybe just velcro19:17
raa700or magnets, maybe keyboardTOH people have figured out how do they work19:18
r0kk3rzwouldnt it be better to just have a battery case?19:18
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Morpog_PC__why is tehre no "Will it blend?" movie for Jolla phone? :D20:58
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Stskeepsprobably based in US and couldn't buy one?20:59
Stskeepsdid you see the guy that drowned his jolla?20:59
Morpog_PC__nope, lol, link?20:59
Stskeepsit was in the start of jolla sales20:59
Stskeepssomebody video'ed drowning his jolla20:59
gogetastupid20:59
Morpog_PC__hehe20:59
Morpog_PC__just like the iphone 6 guy who wait hours in line and dropped it right in front of reporters :D21:00
gogetapure ego21:00
coderusplease let me know if any Jolla public new year events in Dec 29 - 07 Jan in Finland21:01
Stskeepsi don't think there's any, besides sailors taking some vacation, or being chained at desks to get update out..21:01
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coderusbut its new year holidays21:06
coderuswho is working these days? :D21:06
gogetano one21:06
Stskeepspeople who didn't get out before handcuffs were brought out?21:06
Stskeeps:P21:06
gogetanice film Stskeeps21:07
gogetatnx for the sugestion last night21:07
coderusplush handcuffs? :D21:07
Stskeepsno, just plush TOHs..21:07
coderus:D21:07
coderuswell, what is the best way to communicate with finland sailors and create meeting in my days? :D21:08
kimmoliusing words?21:08
coderus0~i mean place21:08
coderuswhere to post21:08
coderusetc.21:08
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r0kk3rzcoderus: i hear the amsterdam bar is where its at21:13
coderusr0kk3rz: sorry, i dont understand what you wrote :D21:13
r0kk3rztheres a bar in helsinki21:13
r0kk3rzcalled the amsterdam bar21:13
coderusokay21:14
r0kk3rzits near the jolla office21:14
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Teemuthat's a nice bar21:17
Teemugood place for an office21:17
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r0kk3rznewyears in fi hey coderus? sounds like fun21:25
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Teemuiirc the bar has kitchen open until it closes21:30
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minimecJust as a side note... I checked the 'call recorder' logs. Works rather well with my MINI freespeak unit (app was running by chance). ;)21:39
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coderusr0kk3rz: yes :)21:41
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r0kk3rzcoderus: just hanging around helsinki?21:57
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M4rtinKhttps://together.jolla.com/question/3444/show-calendar-event-title-directly-in-the-lock-screen/?answer=70210#post-id-7021022:20
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M4rtinK^^ calendar even notifications on the Jolla lockscreen by mihlit :)22:21
M4rtinK(just spreading this around a bit as I think that this nice little application has not yet been widely noticed yet :) )22:22
tiwakewhat was the processor jolla was planning on using?22:25
tiwakefor the tablet22:25
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M4rtinKtiwake: Z3735F IIRC ?22:26
tiwakealright22:27
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tiwakemeh22:31
tiwakewhy am I looking up the specs for this?22:31
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M4rtinKtiwake: check the full (~4000 page) spec PDF22:36
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tiwakeM4rtinK: I'm looking at the 375 page one?22:36
M4rtinKtiwake: ARK is reportedly wrong about some of its features22:36
M4rtinKtiwake: that might also be fine22:36
tiwakeARK?22:36
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M4rtinKtiwake: IIRC there are two, one ~300 and another ~3000-400022:37
M4rtinKhttp://ark.intel.com/22:37
M4rtinKthat brief info tool22:37
tiwakeI'm also looking at the changes22:37
M4rtinKusually shows as primary source in Google when you search for Intel CPU model names22:38
tiwakeoh thats what I was looking at22:40
tiwakePWM channels, nice22:42
tiwakePWM is useful22:42
tiwakeJTAG22:44
M4rtinKtiwake: does it have I2C ?22:44
tiwakethis datasheed reminds me more of microcontrollers than processors22:44
M4rtinKtiwake: so that it can be used for a TOH like interface22:44
tiwakethough, I cant say I've looked at serious processor datasheets very much either22:45
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M4rtinKwell, you need a lot of microcontroller like stuff on laptops/embedded devices22:45
tiwakeI2C... I might have noticed that in the table of contents22:45
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tiwakeyeah, page 4622:46
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M4rtinKtiwake: mind adding this piece of information to the Tablet TOH interface suggestion o together ? :) ( https://together.jolla.com/question/63483/request-jolla-tablet-tohdocking/ )22:47
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tiwakeI dont know what TOH means22:48
tiwaketerms of health?22:48
Stskeepsanything remotely TOH-ish would go through USB OTG; fwiw22:48
Stskeepsor sdio for the creatives22:48
alteregotiwake: The Other Half22:48
M4rtinKStskeeps: well, as long as the pins are exposed then why not22:48
tiwakeoh22:50
tiwakewell, I don't really know what the other half means22:50
tiwakeaside from a back cover22:50
tiwakewhy would a back cover be relevant to processor specs? lol22:50
M4rtinKStskeeps: now thinking about it - just exposing a USB pogo pin set on a suitable place place under the back cover would rock22:50
chem|sttiwake: gear22:50
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M4rtinKwell, if there is a back cover of course :)22:51
tiwakeblock diagrams are fun22:52
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chem|sttiwake: and dumb gear needs CPU, even more when the connection is translated through USB or SDIO22:52
M4rtinKtiwake: well, it is a bit more than a back cover: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla22:52
M4rtinKtiwake: see for an example of what can be done with the TOH on the Jolla22:52
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M4rtinKtiwake: it is not just a plastic cover, but it also has I2C, an interrupt pin & power transfer pins22:53
chem|stM4rtinK: how about a full connector bar on the long side and some magnets^^22:53
tiwakeis that like IR communication between the back cover and the front?22:53
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chem|sttiwake: wire, I2C is just the controller (USB like in noob-speak)22:54
tiwakeright... but.. how is the data transported?22:54
M4rtinKchem|st: I think any robust connector that exposes an easily usable interface (sdio/gpio/rs232/usb, whatever) & charging will do22:55
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chem|sttiwake: pin connectors22:55
tiwakeoh ok... so there are little contact areas that connect up when the back cover is "snapped on"22:56
M4rtinKwhat I'm trying to get to is that this should be *in addition* of the "normal" USB connector for the tablet22:56
chem|stwhen I answer I2C and you ask about "how is the data transfered" I think you are asking if it is wireless or wire, what I already said, so you probably mean the connector type22:56
chem|sttiwake: right, little pins and contact surfaces22:57
tiwakeuh, I might have missed it?22:57
M4rtinKso that if you have an accessory attached to the tablet, normal functionality of the "main" USB port is not blocked and i can be used for charging, usb networking, OTG stuff, etc.22:57
tiwake:P22:57
* tiwake does more reading22:58
M4rtinKI think it would kinda suck if to connect a hypotetical tablet TOH you had cables hanging around & not being able to use the USB normally22:58
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tiwakeoh ok, I2C actually is the buss22:59
tiwakederp22:59
chem|stM4rtinK: I think "leave alone my usb port!" I am thinking about the most simple way you could think of, smooth surface and in between are connection pads, left and right is a magnet22:59
M4rtinKfor example: I have the DIP TOH on my Jolla and it would be unusable if it occupied the only USB port on the device22:59
M4rtinKchem|st: why not - I'm fine with any sufficiently robust connector23:00
tadzikunless it'll just make your jolla longer, not thicker, if you know what I mean23:00
chem|stso you make my idea a full size bay and add as many usbports as you like (up to 4 so no hub is needed)23:00
tadzikit could even expose another usb port :P23:00
M4rtinKchem|st: plus points if it makes it easy to attach stuff to the back of the tablet23:00
chem|stM4rtinK: design! design! and oh design!23:01
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tiwakeI wonder what the datarate is for this interface23:01
chem|sttiwake: on phone 400kbit/s23:01
tiwakehmm23:01
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chem|sttiwake: do yourself a favour, and me too, google i2c!23:02
M4rtinKchem|st: if you can use it for charging you could do a nice keyboard & battery docks/cover :)23:02
M4rtinK*dock23:02
tiwakeI did! still reading XD23:02
chem|stM4rtinK: you are way behind on this matter it seems23:02
M4rtinKread faster!23:02
tiwakeI tend to talk outloud on IRC when I'm reading... sorry23:02
M4rtinKchem|st: ??23:02
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chem|stI asked for a transformer dock more than a week ago23:03
M4rtinKactually I've seen people doing just that back in the FreeRunner days with the TouchBook :)23:03
M4rtinKit was way ahead back then :)23:03
chem|sthttp://www.asus.com/de/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_Transformer_Book_T200TA/23:03
tiwake(I do it IRL too... drives everyone crazy when I talk about half-formed ideas while reading and processing data thats reverent to the problem at hand)23:03
M4rtinKchem|st: https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/23:03
chem|stit is basically the same specs as jolla-tab23:03
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M4rtinKM4rtinK: Intel price dumping does wonders :)23:05
M4rtinKchem|st: ^^23:05
chem|styeah23:05
coderusr0kk3rz: no23:05
coderusaround finland23:05
chem|stbut as Aard wants to make (kidding) a sailfish desktop version, this would actually fit my overall need...23:05
M4rtinKit would be really funny if AMD did a AMD branded Intel tablet :)23:06
M4rtinKI would not be surprised anymore :)23:06
chem|stdevice swaps to SilicaDesktop as soon as you attach it to TOH23:06
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M4rtinKStskeeps: so I think we have reached consensus - make the pins accessible and we will make use of them to make Jolla Tablet even more awesome :)23:08
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chem|stbut that is for sure something jolla needs to bring as addon, and marketing it early, with serial interface and a spare hardware slot, DP, M.2, msata, mHDMI, battery23:09
chem|stthat could as well be a kickstarter (for things like that a kickstarter makes sense)23:10
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M4rtinKchem|st: I think Jolla has their hands kinda full already :) sure would be nice though23:11
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M4rtinKchem|st: but as the possibility is open to others like with the current TOH on the Jolla, I'm fine with it23:11
chem|stM4rtinK: do you really want to wait a year for an addon for a device that has a lifetime of two to three years?23:12
chem|stits not a 800eur toughbook, it is a 200eur tablet23:13
chem|stI don't buy tohkbd as I expect the jolla2 to be announced on mwc23:13
chem|st"at"23:14
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M4rtinKunless sold in huge quantities the margin might be just enough to get all the hardware and software development for the tablet itself going23:14
M4rtinKlet alone additional hardware stuff, marketing & warranty service23:15
chem|stM4rtinK: companies released tablets with way less than the igg 100%23:16
M4rtinKchem|st: well, if you just slap AOSP on them it is a bit easier23:16
M4rtinKchem|st: or not even that - OEM manufacturers will easily make branded tablets for you with your own skin23:17
M4rtinKchem|st: of course if you don't want Android, things might be more difficult23:17
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chem|stuh I have another idea - Jolla Anchorage - just a conenctor bay with a hinge and a connector on both ends, you could bundle two tablets - for a start23:17
M4rtinKmight -> are23:17
M4rtinKthat could actually work23:18
M4rtinKJolla Tablet DS :)23:18
M4rtinKJolla Tablet Book :)23:18
swift110_lol23:19
swift110_that would be cool23:19
chem|stthere is your TOH, not a backcover (well you could put it on the back, it has a hinge)23:19
chem|stand that is darn badass cheap and easy to realize23:19
chem|stat least the connection itself, sync is another issue but well... give us some hardware to play with23:20
chem|stand jolla could distribute TOH as an empty PC case with just the connectors and solder joints23:20
M4rtinKkinda like that Google cardboard thing :)23:21
chem|stI like FPV for VR^^23:21
chem|stStskeeps: ^^ read that?23:22
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M4rtinKFPV model aircraft are nice23:23
M4rtinK...until they become stuck on a random tree in Slovakia23:24
M4rtinK(this actually happened to a friend - will have to ask if he already managed to get it down)23:24
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chem|stM4rtinK: https://together.jolla.com/question/70586/hardware-request-jolla-tablet-toss-link-two-tablets/23:33
chem|stM4rtinK: you need a friend with a powerful quadcopter that can lift it^^23:34
M4rtinKchem|st: I've actually seen people doing that already on youtube video :)23:34
chem|stor someone with a bow, wings are a days work but the hardware is couple of hundred eurs23:34
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M4rtinKBTW, people are already racing FPV drones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsxyV-kgfio23:38
M4rtinKand they even use VR goggles for controlling them :)23:38
chem|stM4rtinK: not just racing, there is dronewars now...23:42
chem|stdownhill, long distance and other things23:43
chem|stproblem is that most HF technology needed is not allowed to use in EU23:43
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M4rtinKI've heard about some experiments with using LTE for control and video transmission23:46
chem|stwith unlimited data, that is an idea... but even then, the remote places you want to fly do not have LTE yet23:47
M4rtinKyeah23:48
M4rtinKwell 2.4 GHz & 5 GHz might be also usable23:48
M4rtinKwell, maybe not with the official transmission power limits :)23:49
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chem|st10mW on 2.4GHz and 25mW on 5GHz (only stationary is higher)23:56
chem|stdirect comparison it 5GHz has 20% higher allowed TX power23:57
chem|stboth need to stay below 10%duty cycle23:57

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