#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2014-12-17

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keithzgPshhh, someone on Google+ just asked if there's an RSS feed for the new Jolla blog. Do kids these days not know how to read HTML headers? ;)02:45
keithzgI remember back in my day my browser had a button that'd automatically pop up to allow me to add any feeds announced to my RSS reader. Man, Konqueror. I miss that browser. Glad that it birthed what powers most of the browsers out there nowadays, but sad that it kindof died of neglect itself.02:46
tiwakeRSS does make things easier02:47
* keithzg (I mean, I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek here, the less snarky "back in my day" would be me remember browsing in lynx and such too; these things change so, so quickly)02:47
tiwake(on the consumer side)02:47
keithzgYeah, RSS is really nice. I can't imagine consuming news without it.02:47
keithzgLooking forward to ocNews on a Jolla Tablet :D02:48
tiwakeI just have 50+ tabs open and never close them :P02:48
keithzgHeh, well I do that too, it's just that I *got* those tabs from clicking on links in RSS ;)02:48
keithzgAnd then it's all synchronized, so my tablet knows what my phone knows what my browser knows, in terms of what I've already read or not.02:49
tiwakedonno, I don't RSS :P02:50
tiwakethen again I don't really read any 'news;02:53
tiwakeI read an overview of the latest linux kernel changes...02:54
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tiwakereading about ARM servers now02:55
tiwakeI really want AMD's A1100 :P02:58
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tiwakedont like x86 and family assembly that I'll just switch to ARM so I know its not running x86 code... lol02:59
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tiwakealso, the A1100 has two 10gigbit ethernet ports03:01
tiwakeeeeee03:01
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tiwakehttp://www.anandtech.com/show/8776/arm-challinging-intel-in-the-server-market-an-overview03:15
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salyavinkeithzg https://blog.jolla.com/feed/04:39
salyavinfound that myself earlier, they even have redirects from /rss  when adding to my tt-rss instance.04:40
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coderusMazeLock patch updated to v0.0.2: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/patch-mazelock09:04
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meklulooks cool09:10
tadzikoh, nice!09:12
tadzikno "may eat your cat and brick your device" warning? Is it safe enough, or it is just assumed as a default? :)09:13
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temmi_footiwake: what? that's cool09:17
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coderustadzik: the only bug with sim pin was fixed in 0.0.209:29
tadzikknown bug :)09:29
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tadzikthe reason I'm worried is because if something goes to hell I'll have no way to even ssh to my device09:30
temmi_foois it a known bug that i cannot connect to wlans now that my sim card is temporarily on hold by telco?09:31
Stskeepstemmi_foo: that shouldn't happen09:31
Stskeepstigeli:09:31
temmi_fooi'm running tähkälampi and now cannot connect to wlans09:31
temmi_fooin home huawei b593s and in hacklab some ubiquiti stations09:32
coderustime to opt-in09:32
coderustadzik: nothing i know of09:33
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tadzikoh, new music player app, cool09:39
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Temeoh the what now09:40
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ruskiehmm wonder what are the chances that if I order a jolla tomorrow I'll get it before the holidays...09:41
tadzikbetter order today :)09:42
joonahoithe chances are pretty slim though09:42
joonahoithe postal service is totally overloaded with xmas packages09:42
ruskiecan't no money until tomorrow hehe09:43
Sceltruskie: where from? in Finland they say that if you order no later than tomorrow you'll propably get the package before christmas09:44
ruskiegave mom my jolla yesterday to play with and she likes it09:44
ruskiewell it'll be currier here09:44
Sceltbut that's of course domestic shipments09:44
ruskienot mail09:44
zuttotook 3 business days to ship jolla in finland few weeks ago inside finland09:44
ruskiegonna be fedex here09:45
Temetadzik: what was that about new music player app?09:45
ruskieso 2-4 days from dispatch09:45
zuttoyep09:45
zuttoprocessing time was 4 business days tho09:45
ruskiewill see how my luck is09:46
zuttobut i ordered it when they first announced the discount to 25009:46
zuttoso there might have been traffic at that time09:46
tadzikTeme: it's on openrepos09:47
tadzikDedalus, +-2 levenshteins09:47
tadzikif it had "predictable shuffle" I'd switch to it right away09:48
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coderustadzik: quasar mx have predictable shuffle09:48
tadzikso does stock :)09:49
tadzikand stock never fucked up my albumarts, granted, because it's not able to download new ones09:49
Temetadzik: ok thanks09:51
tadzikI learned to quite like stock, even if the UI is a bit lacking, and apart from this "sometimes off-by-one" when removing things from a playlist09:51
Temestock is decent, a minor nuisance is not being able to see long songnames09:51
Temeor rather the part of them that doesn't fit on the screen09:52
Temeit could "float scroll" in the bottom but i'm too lazy to TJC it :P09:52
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j-dogeTeme: so what exacly do these long song names do? And what do you think they should do? And have they ever done something they're not doing anymore?09:56
j-doge(I haven't really used Media that much myself)09:57
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Temeassume a long song or album name, let's use here 'Boards of Canada - Music Has the Right To Children' as an example10:04
Temenowhere on the UI is it now possible to see what it reads after "..Right To" because it gets cropped out10:05
Temewhat it could do: scroll horizontally very slowly like some media players on PC (Winamp at least) do10:05
Temeso when it's scrolled to the right edge, you see "..of Canada - Music Has the Right To Children"10:06
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Temei'd make a TJC but it would need a screenshot and a demo of the scrolling behaviour10:06
Temeand it's not _that_ big of a deal :)10:08
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tigelitemmi_foo: hmm.. that shounds weird10:19
tigelisounds10:19
tigelitemmi_foo: how is your sim on hold?10:20
tigelitemmi_foo: I'm just wondering because I can ssh to my device with and without having any sims on it10:20
tigeliover wlan10:20
temmi_foosim is on hold because i've managed to pay only some bills of all of the sent ones10:21
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temmi_foofor some reason i'm having trouble using the service design on how to get bills sent to my bank account10:22
tigeliok.. I might have dna sim which does not have any prepaid balance left10:22
temmi_footry that and see if it affects wlan10:22
Stskeepstemmi_foo: how does it manifest in your ui? no signal, or data won't enable?10:22
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tigelitemmi_foo: I'm quite certian it does not have any effect on it but I can try10:24
jake9xx'sup sailors10:24
SK_workhi jake9xx !10:24
jake9xxHey SK_work , long time no C (or C++ either)10:25
SK_work:)10:25
temmi_fooit doesn't find any wlan it doesn't already know about and doesn't connect to any preconfigured one10:25
tigelijake9xx: you have nothing to do? and have finished the gta?10:25
temmi_fooalso entering any secret wlan info is impossible as it just hangs in the search dialog10:26
jake9xxtigeli: I've got some sort of office ebola, staying home and watching the ceiling10:26
tigelijake9xx: haha, I don't have ebola but something similar :D10:27
jake9xxtigeli: I cannot play gta when kids are awake, for obvivous reasons10:27
tigelijake9xx: https://app.younited.com/?shareObject=9afa1864-3a43-455a-f47a-2e090761c3a010:27
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jake9xxur hand?10:28
tigelitemmi_foo: I did try on our latest u10 rc and it connects fine on wlan10:28
tigelijake9xx: yeah10:28
tigelijake9xx: it got "fixed" on early october..10:28
temmi_fooi got tähkälampi10:29
jake9xxtigeli: fcuk man. http://cdn.meme.li/i/hlsd3.jpg10:29
tigelitemmi_foo: that's 1.0.8.19 right?10:29
tigelijake9xx: :D10:29
SK_worktigeli: tf10:29
SK_workwtf10:29
tigelijake9xx: but it's getting better now.. I can already use it rather well, 4 weeks in a cast, 2 weeks in short plastic splint.. 3 months no heavy lifting10:30
temmi_foo1.0.8.2110:30
jake9xxtigeli: <310:30
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jake9xxbut I had something to say here. have you guys looked at node.js running on jolla already?10:32
jake9xxand when talking about javascript performance, IL2CPP might be interesting project10:33
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jake9xxStskeeps: ^10:33
* Stskeeps bookmarks10:34
jake9xxwe're working on that quite actively, mainly to get C# -> C++ pipeline working but we also study js->c#->c++ conversion10:35
jake9xxkinda having a moc of javascript, but with lotsa perf10:36
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temmi_foois this using llvm or some other modular compiler toolchain?10:37
SK_workI2LCPP ?10:37
SK_workjake9xx: I did some small nodejs experment on Jolla10:37
SK_worknothing impressive, but did some stuff10:38
jake9xxSK_work: just curious of the overhead of node.js based server app vs. qprocess stuff10:38
SK_workthe nodejs toolchain don't fit well with Mer OBS and that's a major bummer btw10:38
SK_workjake9xx: what would you compare ?10:38
tigelitemmi_foo: are the problems there still if you remove the sim-card?10:39
jake9xxspeed,ram, response times etc10:39
SK_workbut what would you execute via qprocess ?10:39
SK_workwhat is the test case ? serving a basic webpage ? more dynamic content etc ?10:39
SK_worknot easy to compare IMO10:39
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temmi_fooi'd not test serving at all but test something like hash computations10:42
temmi_foofrom file to file or from stdin to stdout or something10:42
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temmi_footesting10:45
jake9xxSK_work: true. two aspects here 1)booming interest of node.js currently 2)in client-server approach server implementation might be easier to do with node than qt10:45
temmi_foonow i selected connect to internet and it asked me would i want to join a hidden network10:45
temmi_fooi'm entering the credentials10:45
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SK_workjake9xx: agreed10:45
SK_workas I'm not really familiar with nodejs, I'm having issue starting nodejs based apps deployment10:46
SK_workas npm is not nice to be run on-device10:46
stephgnpm is the spawn of the devil10:46
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temmi_fooevery language has to have its own package management10:46
temmi_foonever mind whatever package managers already present on the system, We Know Better(TM) than your os vendor10:47
temmi_fooi think perl started this with cpan10:47
SK_workstephg: npm is nice enough to hide the 7-8 layers of dependencies a basic node project needs10:48
temmi_foonow i cannot select a hidden network to try again entering the network name and wpa psk10:48
stephgSK_work: well it depends what the deps are I suppose10:48
stephgdid you get the mail btw?10:48
SK_workstephg: yep10:48
stephgcool10:48
SK_worksadly cannot do anything as I don't have the spec files :(10:48
stephgthey're in the attached tarball10:49
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jake9xxstephg: npm is not the evil. people who don't obey deps are evil.10:49
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jake9xxand you can get away with nvm but it's not well documented (like most of the node magic in general)10:50
tigelitemmi_foo: tested with a sim which has no subscription anymore.. and works too10:50
SK_workstephg: are they, I didn't checked10:50
SK_workjake9xx: nvm ?10:50
temmi_footigeli: 1.0.8.21 or 1.0.10.xyz?10:51
tigelitemmi_foo: I will flash 1.0.8.21 to one of my devices and try agian10:51
stephgyup10:51
tigelitemmi_foo: u1010:51
jake9xxnode version manager, https://github.com/creationix/nvm10:51
temmi_foosysadmins love this10:52
SK_worklooks nice10:52
temmi_footo use a node application you instal the nodejs package from os vendors package repos and everything else from roughly 23 different repos and tools10:52
SK_worktemmi_foo: or provides deps yuorself ?10:52
temmi_foothe node app devs naturally don't want to do that since they already provide a package for their own favourite node package deployment tool10:53
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SK_workstephg: I only have the .list files i tarball10:54
SK_workno spec10:54
temmi_foowhich more often than not seems to be not npm but something else10:54
jake9xxtemmi_foo: well, our releasing goes so that in testing we build a docker container which is then tested. once it's good to go it goes to production. Production won't be pulling anything w/o testing10:54
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chem|stI give up... people are discussing if a missing partition is the cause of read-only on a sdcard formated to btrfs10:55
jake9xxtemmi_foo: the hazard is if you depend on some package which includes a wildcard for a version of it's deps10:55
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temmi_fooi'm thinking of releasing elli software in a container with preconfigured toolchain10:55
stephgSK_work: edfccfd4a108dd02054414e9ed568e3e  sources.tar.bz210:56
stephghas I have 495 spec files in that10:56
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SK_workstephg: one sec10:56
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* pp_ just put npm update in his rpm spec file and made npm a buildrequires :-)10:57
temmi_fooanyhow tigeli now after rebooting it says no networks found10:57
temmi_foomy local wlan is secret and i think i typoed when entering credentials10:57
tigelitemmi_foo: it's hidden network?10:57
temmi_fooit is10:58
tigeli(and yes, i hate all the bugs which consist a hidden network) :D10:58
SK_workstephg: hum10:58
temmi_fooafter removing the sim and rebooting jolla, it asked me if i wanted to join a hidden network and asked the credentials10:58
SK_workI will try again, maybe 7zip is not happy10:58
SK_workstephg: ok, got it, extracting works, but viewing in 7zip do'nt10:59
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SK_workthanks for this, will be immensely useful10:59
stephgno probs10:59
stephgand the instructions to make the whole source tree should work as well should you need to11:00
stephge.g. to keep it up to date11:00
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tigelitemmi_foo: tested with 1.0.8.19 and wlan works11:01
SK_workstephg: mind writing it at the end of the wiki ? :)11:01
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SK_workor even better11:02
temmi_foomight be that i'm running a hidden wlan11:02
SK_workcan you write a shell script and push it in some repo ?11:02
SK_workand then, link to the wiki page ?11:02
tigelitemmi_foo: it probably is.. and I know that there are some issues on scanning/searching hidden networks11:02
stephgit needs cleaning up but I could do that11:02
stephg(I also need to understand jq properly, having to use sed in there is ugly)11:02
temmi_footigeli: lets just say i'll eventually reconfigure my wlans and get the sim working too11:03
chem|sthmm oneplus without invitation today...11:03
chem|stcan we have sailfish for it please?11:03
chem|st;)11:03
stephgchem|st: vgrade was working on it11:04
stephgbut there's a gpu blocker iirc11:04
tigelitemmi_foo: yeah, fundamentally hidden wlans are broken as they are not broadcasting the essid but then their clients are shouting out loud with active scans "are you there essid_name?"11:05
tigelibut that's another issue11:06
temmi_fooi'm disliking wifi nearly as much as bluetooth11:07
zuttotemmi_foo: what about bluetooth-wifi :P?11:09
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temmi_fooif i could, i would use just ethernet everywhere11:10
temmi_fooit is not without mistakes but after multiport bridges became the standard way of operation, it works pretty nicely11:11
temmi_foomultiport bridges is just a fancy way of saying store and forward switches11:11
jake9xxbbl11:11
inzRunning around with a cable reel on your back is not fun, got a taste of that during the military service ;)11:11
temmi_fooinz - .. - .- .-. ..   --- -.   .-. .. - .- .-. ..11:12
Waiteewhaat11:13
Waiteeinz: that was the best stuff i had in military :D11:13
temmi_fooi'm a morse code operator11:13
temmi_foobasically my wartime duty would have been to be the last group in place after yhtymä leaves a location to call an enemy air strike or something11:14
mekluhmm, wonder what I'll get to enjoy11:14
temmi_fooany manual morse transmission needs minutes and happens on a band that is heard everywhere this side of ural11:15
meklumy service will begin on the 5th D:11:15
Waiteehuoltokomppania best11:15
Teme#jollamobile_inttijutut :D11:15
Waitee:--D11:15
temmi_fooalso with a nice scanning network it can be pinpointed to accuracy of a few km11:15
temmi_fooanyhow the off roading part is nice11:16
mekluso you can get mortared all nice and smooth?11:16
meklusounds like fun11:16
temmi_fooyes11:16
temmi_foothat's me11:16
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Waiteewell if you use frequency hopping, your radio can be pinpointed by a few hundred meters11:17
temmi_fooyou get to drive around someone elses ground property in someone elses off road vehicle and the official instructor is mostly yelling to keep the pedal to the metal11:17
zuttoeven less than that Waitee11:17
Waiteewell assuming you send max 3 second bursts11:18
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tigeliWaitee: but the radio is never next to you or you are doing something wrong :)11:20
temmi_foohf cw is just outdated, that's all11:20
Waiteetigeli: true11:21
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coderusMazeLock patch updated to 0.0.3: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/patch-mazelock13:00
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SK_workhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/SailfishOSS#OSS_packages updated with mer packages (ATM)13:26
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Stskeepshttps://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-hardware-adaptation-team-day-zero-bootstrapping/13:38
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coderusjust tried skype on jolla and video works fine :)13:41
mekluthe android version, right?13:42
coderussure13:43
coderusjust it was reported many times about skype not working at all, not working calls, video.13:43
coderusi just tried it myself and everything works fine13:43
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locusfSK_work: stephg: good job :)13:46
Waiteea couple versions ago skype couldnt connect13:46
Waiteeat least on my device13:46
j-dogeskype has had its share of troubles, but afaik it should just work(tm) at the moment13:48
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Waiteewell i messed something and skype won't update13:51
Waiteebut i guess its not skypes fault13:51
Waiteeand it works fine apart from that13:51
SK_worklocusf: got the full list with repos from mer / nemo packages and nemo13:52
SK_workproblem: not all packages were found13:53
SK_workstephg: I think you missed some repos from nemomobile on github ?13:54
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lainwir3dStskeeps: nice blog post14:19
Stskeepsthank14:19
Stskeepss14:19
Scelt+114:19
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xehbitoh damn, i love this jolla phone! received it 2 days ago. but how about security. is it safe to store private keys on it?14:43
Stskeepswell, i am not that afraid since i have a locked bootloader and to unlock it you need a lock code; and a lock code on boot.. but i would suggest your own evaluation14:44
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xehbitI like to use the Jolla phone for work, instead of my Android M7 phone14:46
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Nicd-xehbit: if you use a lock code it is pretty secure14:47
xehbitI even set the USB mode default to charche only mode14:47
xehbitcharge14:47
Nicd-since you cannot read data off it without that code (only if you have ssh login enabled or if you rip away the memory chips I think)14:47
xehbitSo it should be fine i guess, the only this is; all apps can read data from other apps unlike android has a unix user for each app while sailfish uses a single user 'nemo' for all apps14:48
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Nicd-yes, all apps currently have user permissions14:49
xehbitWhat i dont get is; there is a dalvik runmod, how about android apps. Can they reach the data from the nemo user as well ?14:49
xehbitOr is the dalvik runmode running in a sandbox thing ?14:49
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Sailor11736Oåcp14:53
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coderusxehbit: android can read nemo files with no problems14:53
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stephgSK_work: what's missing?15:04
stephg(it's possible)15:05
SK_workcheck the list15:05
SK_workstuff like packagekit15:05
SK_workconnman15:05
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stephgweird15:08
chem|stxehbit: I think you need to unlock it to be able to read anything from it with USB15:08
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xehbitAnd what about booting the jolla in recovery, the storage is still protected ?15:08
coderusxehbit: you can't access it without entering lock code15:09
xehbitStill waiting for a feature to password protect the phone instead using a pin.15:09
xehbitah, thanks for the intel chem|st and coderus :)15:09
chem|stxehbit: that is what most of us are waiting for15:09
j-dogealphanumerical lock code?15:09
stephgSK_work: so connman comes from mer-core by the looks15:10
SK_workstephg: nope, it comes from nemomobile15:10
xehbitIs there a way to contribute on the Sailfish OS ?15:10
coderusalphanumeric will be available in next release15:10
stephgbut it's not there15:10
xehbitalphanumeric ?15:10
stephgshow me a github url that it's in as I can't see one :)15:10
coderusxehbit: on mer/nemo components yes, on sailfish/silica no15:10
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coderusxehbit: alphanumeric15:11
chem|stxehbit: you can work on many parts... depends on what you are familiar with or want to contribute too15:11
stephgthere's a libconnman-qt (which generates libconnman-qt and -qt5 rpms) but no connman15:11
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chem|stxehbit: some people would love to have thevault (backup tool) be more feature rich and have it export passwordprotected to home and not only sdcard15:12
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xehbitah, i see15:13
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chem|stthe browser does render some pages wrong...15:14
chem|ststarting with about:*15:14
coderuschem|st: about: pages are mozilla engine own pages15:16
coderuswhat problem with render?15:16
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coderusif you can't control it and change somwthing it's different15:16
chem|stcoderus: I can neither change something nor can I get to an apply button nor anything else as the page renders at a size so you only see 13% of it15:17
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chem|stcoderus: there is a whole set of pages on tjc that does wierd stuff or are broken15:19
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tiwaketemmi_foo: what is cool?16:04
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xehbitwhat what is cool ?16:12
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TMavicahow cold Finland now?16:20
Waiteedepends how north you go16:20
Waiteeturku it's -116:20
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Shinryuunear Oulu it's pretty much the same16:24
coderuscool16:25
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tiwakexehbit: donno... I'm guessing the anandtech article I linked a while ago, but I dont really remember and my scrollback does not go quite that far16:25
coderuswhat is forecast for new year holidays?16:25
misteruxhello there16:26
chem|stcoderus: a meteorologist that believes more than 3 days of forecast should retire (do them say)16:27
TMavicacoderus: how is ur plan16:28
tiwakewoot16:32
tiwakeI dont have to go in to work today16:32
TemeV15 day forecast for Helsinki: http://www.foreca.fi/Finland/Helsinki/15vrk16:33
TemeVfirst highest temperature, then lowest and amount of rain16:33
TemeVbut in general, "it could be anything"16:33
japa-fiIs there a browser to jolla that is similar to the opera I had in my N900. Mainly I want to have zoom which will rewrap the text.16:34
the_mgtthere is opera via android16:34
japa-fiThat is to say: with jolla's default browser, when I zoom, the text size increases, but I have to scrolle left and right to be able to read one line of text. Such a PITA.16:34
japa-fiWith opera in N900, it increased the font size (and images etc) and rewrapped the layout so that all text was shown in dislpay area, no scrollling left-right..16:35
japa-fi(Note to all browser coders here: Kickass functionality)16:35
TemeVhow's the battery consumption with Android opera? Android Firefox atleast makes the phone burn and eats the battery16:35
TemeVI guess I could try it myself also16:36
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TominI've been wondring why for example Firefox doesn't do that, but apparently it is patented by HTC: https://together.jolla.com/question/2245/reflow-text-in-browser/16:39
japa-fifrigging software patents..16:40
TemeVif there is a patent on that, it's not valid outside us16:40
raa700_opera for android has that option16:41
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Tominyes, but there are still people that has to care about those patents. I don't know if Jolla has to16:42
japa-fiI looked at opera for android and it seemed to be a privacy hell..16:42
TemeVjapa-fi: why?16:42
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japa-fiI think it required access for my locaction and other stuff..16:43
raa700_some websites ask for location16:43
raa700_for localized weather and other bs16:44
TemeVjapa-fi: I just installed opera, I didn't see it requiring anything that browser wouldn't need16:44
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japa-fiPhone identity?16:45
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TemeVhmm... I guess I missed that one. I didn't look too carefull to be honest16:46
the_mgton a mobile browser, access to location is nice. you grant the general right to do that, but most of the time you get to decide which page actually gets the access to the location16:46
raa700_you probably can spoof that with aliendalvik?16:46
japa-fiperhaps I'll try installing and strip some of the rights away and see if it works.16:46
misteruxjust a quick question folks.... have any of you ever applied for a job at Jolla, and is it normal that it takes quite some time to get an answer?16:47
the_mgtthe whole reflow thing can't be too complicated, imho. you "just" need to resize the container so it does not leak outside the viewport16:47
japa-fisome apps (don't recall which) ask for totally unrelated accesses. (location seems to be their favorite). For example shazam (or what ever the tune identifier). Didn't work without location permissions.16:47
the_mgtoperas zooming has always been nice, on the desktop too16:48
raa700_till 12.x at least16:48
TemeVjapa-fi: yeah, some apps need really peculiar rights16:48
japa-fiSoundcloud: location data, your contacts, call log16:49
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japa-fiGuess it's hip to share things with your location information..16:49
japa-fiAnd to look trough my contacts to suggest someone to share to.16:50
japa-fiAnd even those that you've called but don't have in your contact database.16:50
japa-fiJust that I'm such a tinfoil hat...16:50
TemeVopera address bar seems to be broken16:50
TemeVI can16:50
the_mgtcontact database means: you can share something with somebody from your contacts, i guess16:50
coderusTMavica: i will be in Helsinki 29 Dec - 04 Jan, then go to north, 08 Dec my last day in Finland16:50
japa-fiWhich reminds me: There is no gpg for jolla :(16:50
TemeVI can't type anything there16:50
the_mgtbut most of these rights "frighten" me, too, when installing apks16:51
japa-fiAlso bit frightened for native apps as they don't even mention the rights.16:51
the_mgtthen again, we have totally no clue and permission system for jolla apps :(16:51
the_mgteven worse for the warehouse stuff16:52
japa-fiAlso had issues trying to locate SIP client, many of the candidates seemed to want every right imaginable16:52
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coderusHelp me testing LauncherGrid Advanced + FolderIcons combined patch: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1452535#post145253517:03
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japa-ficoderus, Wasn't even aware of this software. The right ambience switcher looks something I've been missing17:08
coderusjapa-fi: what you mean?17:09
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japa-fiThe slide from left to right to get the settings...17:09
japa-fias in the demo vide17:09
coderusjapa-fi: ah, i'm using settings in notifications view17:09
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coderusthe best place imho17:09
coderusinside ambiance it hard to reach also17:09
japa-fiI get currently nothing when I slide from right to left17:10
coderusbut notifications view you can peak anywhere :)17:10
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japa-fiDo I need patchmanager to enable that feature?17:11
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coderusjapa-fi: i dont understand well what you want, but just read patchmanager topic to find something useful and check openrepos.net, there are also some patches available17:13
japa-ficoderus, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=885dbd801640033b566c5ab35b7c3009&t=92935 the video by @fravaccaro  at 4 second from the start, the functionality what is shown on video17:15
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coderusgive me link to video17:16
japa-fihttp://distilleryvesper2-10.ak.instagram.com/b3305c20c0f911e389080002c9e093e6_101.mp417:16
SK_workright ambience switcher with "control center"17:17
SK_workthe API changed a lot17:17
SK_workso I developed the partnerspace manaer thing17:17
SK_worknot working totally so no advertisement about it17:17
coderusfor settings best place is notifications imho17:19
coderusthere is control center in notifications patch17:20
coderusshould work well17:20
SK_workcoderus: I don't totally agree17:20
SK_workas it "wastes space"17:20
SK_workso both options are here :)17:20
coderusSK_work: wastes space?17:22
coderusif you have a lot of notifications - yes17:22
SK_workcoderus: I mean, I can have like 5-6 rows of notifs17:22
SK_workand my switches is a huge block17:22
SK_workso I prefer having them separated17:22
chem|stjapa-fi: why is up down different from left right? I hate it when browsers keep things to screen size17:22
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the_mgtchem|st: because it adds left/right to up/down, adding a whole new dimension of madness17:27
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the_mgtif you write on a piece of paper, you usually stop on the page border, start next line, until you reach the bottom of the page. only then do you start to use the other side of the paper17:28
tiwakeI want to try getting into writing software a little again... cant wait for the tablet to do so with17:29
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jcbjoe_helllo my nexus phone is going to be a jolla phone .. i live in the United States .. i heared there will be no LTE but there will be 3g is this correct or am i missing something ?17:37
jcbjoe_s/nexus/next/17:38
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coderusSK_work: reasonable, but for me the most important is to reach settings from any place17:38
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tbrjcbjoe_: you mean a real jolla? not sailfish on a nexus?17:38
SK_workcoderus: I don't need settings from *everywhere*17:38
SK_workIMO settings without an app is enough17:38
SK_workof course, IMO = subjective17:38
SK_workbest to have options17:38
tbrjcbjoe_: I don't think anything beyond plain GSM/GPRS/EDGE will work in the US17:39
jcbjoe_tbr: a reall jolla phone17:39
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jcbjoe_tbr: http://i.imgur.com/6u33qAj.png17:43
jcbjoe_tbr: its safe url its about the phone17:43
jcbjoe_is it accurate ?17:43
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tbrjcbjoe_: that looks like one of those gsm-arena pages, I don't trust them17:43
jcbjoe_oh .. a couple of people said that17:44
tbrjcbjoe_: from what I've heard people in the US got 2G (so GSM), but not 3G and not LTE17:44
tbrthere are small parts of canada where apparently LTE will work on rogers17:44
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jcbjoe_tbr: the way i use my phone now might as well be the same .. i'm on t-mobile and i only have 1 gig of data so basically i juse use text and phone calls .. when i do use data i shut it off really quick to avoid being charged anything and just wait till i get to a wifi location17:46
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ryukafalzI use t-mobile as well, but I have 5 GB of data so I just don't worry about it17:52
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ryukafalzand for $30 too17:52
tiwakea jolla phone here in USA would be nice, data or not17:54
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ryukafalzI'm happy with my Nexus 4, but the lack of certain features is annoying at times, heh17:56
jcbjoe_ryukafalz: true17:56
ryukafalzmost notable bluetooth :<17:57
jcbjoe_ryukafalz: does your nexus4 lock / device lock ? i can't get mine to work .. am i doing something wrong ?17:58
ryukafalzjcbjoe_: Ah yeah, that also doesn't work17:58
ryukafalzI haven't looked into why that is in detail though17:59
jcbjoe_oh ok thought it was me i was like .. am i holding it wrong lol17:59
ryukafalzit's not an iPhone, you can't hold it wrong ;)17:59
sledgesjcbjoe_: ryukafalz: try `pkcon install jolla-devicelock-encsfa` as devel-su17:59
* ryukafalz pokes at it17:59
sledges(feedback in #sailfishos-porters, not a place here, soz for OT;P)17:59
jcbjoe_ok thanks sledges17:59
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tiwakebigger hammer is required to fix cellphones18:11
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intehello, im trying to install an apk but i always get a parsing error18:31
inteis there a way to somehow exermine further whats going on?18:32
coderusinte: try to open your apk with archiver on pc18:32
inte18:32
intecoderus : ok which archiver?18:33
coderusany18:33
coderusapk is zip archive18:33
inteso i could try it on the terminal on my jolla as well?18:34
coderussure18:34
coderustry unzip file.apk18:34
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intedone18:35
inteand...?18:36
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coderusnow show error you getting when installing apk18:38
coderusand show unzip output18:38
intei dont quite get it18:40
inteno error when unzipping?18:40
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misteruxHi folks. Have any of you ever applied for a job at Jolla,? Is it normal that it takes quite some time (e.g. that long)  to get an answer?18:42
Stskeepsyes, it takes quite long18:43
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misteruxany experiences Stskeeps  ? its been about 3,5 weeks now. I havent got a cancellation yet, but neither any feedback ;)18:44
Stskeepswell, admittedly i've never applied with jolla, i just had a talk with marc dillon before jolla even existed... :P18:44
Stskeepsso i can't say i have experience as such18:45
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misteruxah, nice :)  so guess i will just have to wait. Ah well ...18:45
Stskeepswhat did you apply for?18:45
misteruxthanks anyway18:45
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misteruxapplyed as a software tester. i recently completed my usabilty degreee so it would naturally be a dream to be able to start at jolla18:48
Stskeepsnod18:49
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beidlmisterux: same "problem" here :)19:08
beidloh he's gone19:08
tiwakeheh19:08
intecoderus i dont quite get it19:09
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Tegumy jolla has returned \o/19:39
Teguvibration working now and no green stuck pixels19:39
tiwakewoo19:39
beidl\o/19:39
tiwakewish I had one that I could get fixed... lol19:40
Teguactually this is a new one. it even has the screen protector19:41
Tegubut TOH is he same. battery is probably old, I guess.. not sure19:42
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Tegunow I disabled the fingerterm vibration just to be sure :P19:44
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temmi_footiwake: i forgot19:47
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tiwaketemmi_foo: I forget what I asked you about19:48
tiwakeor w/e19:48
tiwakelol19:49
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temmi_foo:D19:54
temmi_fooi went to fix one of my saabs with a friend19:55
temmi_foono chatting from under the car19:55
Ezkoare you infected with saabism?19:56
intei thought saab is going for electric cars now19:57
inteat least i read they gonna be resurrected by a chinese company with focus on alternative energy19:58
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temmi_fooEzko: yes, we had a 900 when i was a kid20:17
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temmi_foowe had pretty poor cars at first but then my dads startups started to turn good and he bought a brand new talbot horizon20:19
temmi_foosoon he could upgrade to a saab 900, also new20:19
temmi_foowe had couple of those20:19
temmi_fooyou might have read papers his teknopress published20:20
temmi_fooProsessori, Mikrobitti, C=, Pelit, Tietokone, Hifi20:20
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Obi-Lansmoke in horizon20:21
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madoHello everyone ...20:53
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madoI'd like to ask you ... I'm currently trying to access my parents home wlan with the Jolla phone ... unfortunately though while i'm entering the password I'm getting thrown out and asked to enter the password again ... (even though I've got a full strength signal here) ... Can you tell me what I can do to prevent this?20:55
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madoHello to the people who aarived here in the mean-time  ... I'd like to ask you too ... I'm currently trying to access my parents home wlan with the Jolla phone ... unfortunately though while i'm entering the password I'm getting thrown out and asked to enter the password again ... (even though I've got a full strength signal here) ... Can you tell me what I can do to prevent this? or what the problem can be? ... I mean ... I'm typing the password21:07
madoas fast as I can21:07
Stskeepsisn't there a button for forgetting the network if you tap-and-hold?21:08
phlixifirst of all, please make sure, you are super sure and dounblechecked, that you really do not misstyped the password.21:09
phlixifor example, type into to something else first, and copy it, to paste it into the connect dialog21:09
phaeronmado: is mobile data turned on ?21:10
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madophlixi, i don't know yet how to copy and paste :D ... ... also ... phaeron i'm not sure what you mean ... i went to settings activated WLAN there and then it asked me to connect to a WLAN in the area ... i picked my parents' wlan and I'm getting asked for the password21:11
madohow do you copy and paste something, phlixi ? ... that could buy me some time ;)21:12
phlixiyou can mark editable text, then it should be copied by having it marked21:12
phlixiif you have no apps installed at all so far, you can use for example the "edit name" within a contact21:13
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phlixi...you can even send the password as a contact via bluetooth from another phone (thats what i did when used the jolla the very first time...21:13
bjornUnfortunately you can't copy out of an e-mail, but you can copy from the quoted text if you go to send a reply.21:13
phlixi...sinnce my passwords look like this we8N5X4HBwLKotyQ86Z8zmKUgwNCtBzknMSG3RcW ... and i do not like to type those ;-)21:14
madowell ... my family's passwords look like that as well :D21:14
madoaaand i haven't installed or set anything yet ... i got this phone today (if you were here a few more days ago) I was here before reporting a screen-issue21:15
phlixifrom a secutrity standpoint it would be pretty silly to email the password (well, given some paranoiy levels... :-) )21:15
mado:)21:15
madoalso ... i still need to get a new sim card (I will try and get one by the end of this week) but i thought i could at least install some updates and maybe some apps so far :)21:16
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Obi-LanI think I had similar problems with store login21:18
madoam trying to mark the password now ...21:18
Obi-Lanit kicked out while typing password21:18
madobut so far i cannot mark the word ;)21:18
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madoand regarding the sending the password from another phone method ... that won't be possible ... i am the only one in my family who has a smartphone21:19
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Obi-Lanthink it went away after reboot21:19
Obi-Lanthe firmware which came with phone was bit unstable21:19
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madowill the firmware get updated then as well when I finally can connect to the internet?21:20
phliximado: howto for copy&paste wlan password to a "naked" phone: https://together.jolla.com/question/14165/howto-copy-paste-wlan-settings/?answer=14586#post-id-1458621:21
Obi-Lanyou need to activate jolla account21:22
phlixi...if you do not have any other phone to send it as a contact, you might want to use a laptop with bluetoth ;-)21:22
Obi-Lanthen you can upgrade sailfish21:22
temmi_foooh btw21:22
phlixiotherwise i can not think of a way without typing it21:22
mornfallwhat about WPS? doesn't that work?21:23
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temmi_fooif i surf on the jolla and hit "share", what happens? where is what exactly shared?21:23
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madocan't i copy-paste the password when i type it into a text message?21:23
phlixitemmi_foo: press it, you will be asked21:23
mornfallmado: it'd probably work, yes21:24
madook ... then let me try this first :)21:24
mornfallmado: anywhere you can select text, you can type it and copy it21:24
phliximado: sure, that was my first suggestion ;-)21:24
phlixi[2014-12-17 22:12:53] <phlixi> you can mark editable text, then it should be copied by having it marked21:24
madophlixi, ... am still trying to find out though how to actually mark, copy and paste a text :)21:24
mornfallmado: yes, well, it is a bit tricky :)21:24
mornfallI still can't do it reliably after almost a year ;P21:25
phlixionce it is copied, you get the little symbol above the keyboard21:25
phlixitapping the symbol should paste the text21:25
madowait phlixi ... you have to go back a few steps :)21:25
madoi have not even marked the text yet21:25
Obi-Lanit should be pretty much same as android21:25
madoand mornfall ... glad i'm not the only having some problem there :)21:25
phlixitap hold and move? :)21:25
madoObi-Lan, ... i have never had a modern mobile phone before21:26
phliximado: [2014-12-17 22:13:14] <phlixi> if you have no apps installed at all so far, you can use for example the "edit name" within a contact21:26
madosooo ... i don't have any Android experience ... or iOS or whatever else is out there21:26
Obi-Lanyou can go type sms, type the passwd, press the text and hold it21:26
madobefore the Jolla i had a pretty old Samsung that lasted for about four years21:26
Obi-Lanit should be copied21:26
madothanks phlixi ;)21:26
madoand thanks Obi-Lan ...21:26
madolemme try :)21:27
* phlixi is wondering whether it might be easier to setup an WLAN hotspot, SSH into the device, and put the WLAN password that why into the phone21:30
phlixia wait, there was no wlan sharing in the firmware one year ago21:30
ryukafalzphlixi: are you trying to log in via USB?21:30
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ryukafalzoh, never mind, saw the link above21:31
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phlixiryukafalz: no i am trying to think of other ways than https://together.jolla.com/question/14165/howto-copy-paste-wlan-settings/?answer=14586#post-id-14586 withot typing the password (in a half decent secure way and without a SIM)21:31
madoyay ... i managed to mark the text now21:31
phlixi....and without bluetooth21:31
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ryukafalzhmm... I'm not too familiar with connman but with networkmanager you could copy the config file21:32
madoyay ... now i'm connected :)21:32
phliximado: then there should be the copied text displayed in the soft-keyboard and the "paste" symbol besides21:32
phlixigreat ;-)21:32
madoand now ... updates :)21:33
mado(as i was told that i have to make sure to do them regularly as well)21:33
Obi-Lanyes, before anything else21:33
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Obi-Lanthough latest stable public release is still from july21:33
madodo i have to select any sources there or something? ... so that i only get things labled as stable or close to stable?21:34
Yanielno21:34
phliximado: you get only stable updates as long as you do not "opt-in" into the other stuff21:35
madowhat do you mean, phlixi ?21:36
Yanielby default you only get stable updates21:36
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madook :) ... thanks Yaniel :)21:36
Obi-Lan"opt-in" means sending mail to jolla customer support21:36
Yanielbut there are some unstable updates that you can get by sending an opt-in email21:36
madooh ... in other words ... when i specifically ask for something i will get something labled as something other than "stable" ?21:37
Yanielyep21:37
madook ... understood21:38
phliximado: more details about the opt in: https://together.jolla.com/question/59874/release-notes-opt-in-upgrade-to-software-version-11038-uitukka/21:38
Obi-Lanzzz21:38
madoObi-Lan, is this your way of saying "Good night" ? ;)21:39
madothanks phlixi21:39
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phliximado: no problem ;-) by the way, TJC (together.jolla.com) has a lot of useful info ;-)21:40
madophlixi, ... if you've got more links ... feel free to post 'em ... i'll try and collect 'em all ;D21:40
phlixiand by saying that, without looking there *g* where is the phone book stored?21:40
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madopardon?21:41
madothe phone book? ... as in ... the contacts?21:41
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phlixiyes, but nevermind, already found it, https://together.jolla.com/question/58416/fixing-the-contacts-db/21:43
madoif that is what you mean then i'd say ... i don't know WHERE they can be found but i know that later when i get my new sim card i just need to use the "pick up phone"-symbol and then use this drop-menu from the top21:43
madoalso ... i just read that the updates are to be found in the store21:44
phlixisure, to manually edit the phonebook, i would like to script something where i need to read and write the phonebook without typing something ;-)21:44
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madoerr ... how would that work? ... voice-command?21:45
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phlixiwith python scripts to automatically ex- and import contatcs...21:47
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madohmmm ... but where then do you get them from? ... and is this one of the things that e.g. other people will get to use too?21:52
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madoi mean ... i read that people can program apps and such stuff and improve the phone21:52
phlixinot sure, i do not plan some fancy apps, just some scripts to handle my data21:55
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madowell ... just saying that other people can profit from various things too ... maybe what you plan there is something other people would love too :)21:56
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madoalso ... i told my dad that the connection works now and he asked me ... and now you (since i don't know) ... is it possible to use the phone or some free app for navigation?21:57
madoas in ... telling the phone where we are and where we'd like to go or drive ... or e.g. letting the phone find out itself where "we" are21:58
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madoalso ... here's another question by my dad ... is it possible to quickly record a phone call with this phone? (especially if someone calls and decides to harrass or insult me or someone else using the phone?)22:00
daitheflumado: I saw something about recording a phone call22:01
daitheflumado: just let me check22:01
ryukafalzhttps://openrepos.net/content/dpurgin/call-recorder22:01
madooh? ... certainly ... daitheflu :)22:01
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phlixinever thought about recording phone calls, actually i think (at least here in germany) it is iligal (of course not when you ask) when you get harrased, simply quit the call^^22:01
daitheflumado: https://together.jolla.com/question/5008/call-recording-app/22:02
madosure phlixi ... i'd do that too ... but you know ... some people can be slimy ... they're nice at first but then insult you or something :) ... it's a "just in case"-question :)22:02
ryukafalzdepends on where you live - where I am it's legal to record a conversation as long as at least one party consents22:03
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mado:)22:03
madothanks ryukafalz and daitheflu for those two links ...22:03
daitheflumado: for navigation, I don't know :/22:03
madothat's ok ... but you had an answer to one of the questions ... that counts :D22:04
daitheflumado: and about knowing where you are, activate the GPS, and the maps app should locate you22:04
ryukafalzre: navigation, there's modrana, though I haven't used it myself22:04
ryukafalzhttp://modrana.org/trac22:04
madoalso ... can you tell me please ... i haven't changed anything in the settings but the phone doesn't vibrate any more when hovering over some menu point22:04
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madoand sorry ... yet again i need to bother you with something probably silly / easy ... the phone just downloaded and installed an update, rebooted and everything's black ... i double-tapped it as in "wake up" and it's back ... now when i go back to the store-app i can't find any message telling me something about further updates ... does this mean i only had to install one update?22:08
mado(apparently i'm using the OS version 1.0.8.21 now)22:09
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ryukafalzmado: That's the latest normal release, so yes22:16
phliximado: 1.0.8.21 is currrent version. for system update you can go to the settings app => system => sailfish os updates22:16
madook ... and what about the vibration-feature?22:17
madoalso ... it's nice to see that installing the updates wasn't / isn't all too dificult22:17
madotypo-correction: difficult22:17
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madoand before i forget ... is there a store-tutorial too?22:18
phlixifuture updates will announce themselves automatically to you as a normal alert, like an sms...22:18
madonice!22:19
phlixiregarding the vibrations within the pulley menue, no idea, maybe its configurable (scheck settings) or maybe it has to do with the updates you just did, and will comeback after reboot etc... no idea...22:19
madowell the thing is phlixi ... those vibrations stopped some time before i tried to connect to the WLAN the first time22:20
madobut no worries ... i will look around :)22:20
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madoalso ... it's interesting to see that the update changed the tutorial completely :D22:23
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phlixisalyavin: https://github.com/gpodder/gpodder-sailfish/issues/9 :-)22:23
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madophlixi, ? ... one more question please ...22:29
madoJolla customer support told me that you can find out what data an app needs from you ... (similar to facebook, so it said) ... but where can i find this info?22:29
phlixifirst rule on irc, dont ask to ask, just ask (then wait, if someone knows, someone will answer...) :-)22:29
phlixii am not sure what info you are looking about22:30
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madowell ... before you install i was told that somewhere it says the app needs your contact list, or needs to know when you were born, etc22:31
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phlixiandroid & ios have such feature, that they show you before installing an app what permissions this app needs, for example access to GPS location or phonebook. then you can decide whether to install this app or not. i do not know of a similar sailfish os feature yet.22:35
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TeguI did not even remember that name, birthday etc are asked during the first start until today. but it was skippable so I just skipped22:36
madook ... so Sailfish OS apps don't tell you yet ... ok ... and where can i find this information at an Android app?22:36
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madoTegu, i entered the information ... because i was told it'd be better in case the Saiflish app asks for your age22:37
madoand how do i know this information is truthful, phlixi ?22:37
madoi mean ... the app-description can lie can't it?22:37
Tegudo they ask it? o_O did not even know. nyhow, I would just fill in garbage like always22:38
madonot meant rude but according to the contract that's a bad thing to do, Tegu22:39
phlixii as well can not rember entering such info (i think the device does not need it). however, if this is only about what you entered on setup of the phone, then maybe there is a similar feature and i just never installed an app that needed that info22:39
Tegumeh22:39
phlixiregarding the android feature: the app needs to ask the system for permission to access e.g. gps. if it tries to use gps without asking before functionalit should (*) not be given. that why it canot lie to you before install.22:40
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phlixi(*) however, there might be bugs which apps could circumevent to gain acces to not asked resources, so you never really now until you look into the source of the app (and no "jon doe" does that)22:41
madookaaay ... i guess it's safer then to use apps from trusted sources and open source apps ... but how do i know that an app is open source, something good and nothing harmful?22:42
phlixiwhen do you know whom to trust?22:43
phlixi:-)22:43
madoi guess that is another question - yes :)22:43
phlixi(no difference if code or people)22:43
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phlixii think its one of the most if not the most important "pro" about jolla/sailfish, it is pretty open (compared to other systems)22:45
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madoyes ... i guess that's one reason why i got this phone :D ... but like i said ... the thing is ... i've never had such a modern mobile phone yet ... and i'd like to install and try various apps (within reason of course) and remove them when i don't like them or need them any more22:48
salyavinphlixi awesome!  Thanks for the heads up I am in desperate need of that feature so that's great news22:48
phlixii remembered the desperation when github pinged me about the update ;-)22:49
madophlixi, does this mean you're one of the developers?22:49
phlixitechnically i wrote exactly one line of gpodder ;-) but i would not count that as developer of gpodder :-)22:50
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madowell ... since i didn't know what this is all about i had to ask :)22:51
madobuut ... i see now you know how to write code :) ...22:51
phlixigpodder is a podcast client, to subscribe, download and play, well, podcasts22:51
madoi for one still have to learn about that :)22:51
salyavineven 1 line of code assuming it is usable is helpful phlixi22:52
madopodcasts ... those are these small or large things like newspapers, right? ... best example i can think of right now ... like church sermons ... at least every Sunday a new one? ;)22:52
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salyavingpodder 4 (unlike 2 and 3) had no play que mado which is troublesome particularly when driving and also biking when you want to go to the next one.22:53
phlixihttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast :-)22:53
madoha ha phlixi :D22:53
madoaaand salyavin ... i see22:54
madoit's odd that something like that would be missing22:54
salyavinwell he did a complete rewrite but yea a year in missing that feature is strange.22:54
phlixi...all those wikipedia articles are getting far to loooong... sometimes i remeber the "apple, its a fruit" articles :-)22:54
madooi :p22:55
salyavinLess important would be gpodder.net support so you can sync between devices22:55
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madowell ... i've never had anything to do with podcasts so far ...22:55
salyavinOK.  I've done them since the late 90s before that term existed22:56
madowhat was it called back then? :)22:56
salyavinOften called things like internet radio shows22:56
mado: )22:56
salyavinipod helped popularize them and a lot more got made.22:57
salyavinand then they got called podcasts.22:57
mado:)22:58
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madothanks for the explanation salyavin :)22:58
phlixipodcast-ception, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-Podcasting-article.ogg :D22:58
madotell you what y'all ... i begin to like this place even more now ... you really get a lot of information here :)22:58
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madothis last link didn't work for me :)23:00
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madobut i take it, it is for salyavin :)23:00
madobrb23:01
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