#jollamobile log for Friday, 2015-02-13

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M4rtinKso I like the LVM way better - for stuff like thin pools you have internally a metadata volume and a data volume00:00
kelvanhad similar problems with btrfs on my desktop system too a while ago, wasn't nice to fix :/00:00
M4rtinKand you can monitor exhaustion of both separately & increase size if needed00:00
chem|stlvm, right...00:01
chem|stkelvan: should be fine yes00:01
M4rtinKlvm can accomplish most of what btrfs can do these days00:01
kelvanchem|st: yep, should ... same thing happend when installing last upgrade00:01
M4rtinKwithout eating your data in the process00:01
fennekkiisn't lvm a partition management system moreso than a partition00:02
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M4rtinKfennekki: sure, it works on the block layer more or less00:02
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chem|stfennekki: works like btrfs subvolumes, also across physical volumes00:02
M4rtinKfennekki: you still need to put a filesystem on top of it00:02
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chem|stM4rtinK: and that is in our case a shortcoming00:03
M4rtinKbut with LVM thin pool & filesystem with discard support, you can get similar snapshot capabilities btrfs has00:04
chem|stalso performance on emmc is an issue iirc00:04
M4rtinKwell, no idea how that would be performance wise00:04
M4rtinKbut LVM & EXT4/XFS is generally very fast00:05
chem|stwith 16GB ram zfs is very fast too^^00:05
M4rtinKdoes btrfs has some flash/emmc optimizations ?00:05
M4rtinKisn't 8 GB of ram the minimum for ZFS ? :)00:05
M4rtinKI remember reading that somewhere :)00:06
chem|stseemingly it is the perfect fs for non-rotating devices00:06
chem|styou can have zfs with 4gb of ram but that is a pita...00:06
M4rtinKwell, it btrfs is perfect in almost every aspect - on paper :P00:06
kelvanchem|st: removing a few hundred MB of data does not make any difference, not sure what fills up all the space00:06
chem|stif you want really fast performance you have a 64GB pcie ssd with 32GB RAM and zfs...00:07
chem|stkelvan: how do you recognize that you are out of space?00:08
chem|styou got 2GB left so something is odd00:09
chem|stdoe we have a root-byte?00:09
kelvanbasicly everthing shouting no space left on device to me00:09
chem|stehrm so you are completely unable to write to the FS?00:09
chem|stbut you may delete stuff?00:10
kelvani can create files00:10
chem|stok00:10
chem|stcan you create files with some mb?00:10
chem|stcould be that the FS-tables work but you cannot assign blocks00:11
chem|stdon't know if they are cached or flushed directly00:11
kelvancreating 10mb worked00:11
chem|stok00:11
chem|stwhy is your device full anyway...00:12
M4rtinKI had similar symptoms00:12
M4rtinKI could do touch blah00:12
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M4rtinKeven create small files00:12
chem|stI had the same symptoms with 8GB free and the next day the whole system got stuck...00:13
M4rtinKbut rsyncing ~100 files made about 50% of the transfers fail00:13
kelvanjust dd 100M of zero00:13
M4rtinKalso could not take pictures with the camera sometimes00:13
kelvanwhats an easy way to create many small files00:13
M4rtinKonly tracked it down to space exhaustion much later00:13
M4rtinKcopy the Silica sources somewhere :D00:14
chem|stgit clone firefox00:14
M4rtinKor that00:14
kelvantried to copy old vcard folder00:14
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kelvanno space left on the first one00:15
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chem|stiirc it is svn but still00:15
kelvanremoved the bigger test files00:15
chem|stkelvan: we do not get anywhere... what did you put 6GB files to?00:15
chem|stkelvan: do you have an sdcard?00:16
kelvanyes00:16
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chem|stare those 6gb maptiles?00:16
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chem|stmp3 and pictures you can just store in normal folders on the sdcard... android stuff gets tricky00:17
M4rtinKchem|st: indeed00:17
M4rtinKchem|st: I have about everything on SD card but OsmAnd insisted on storing 3GB of map data in internal storage...00:18
kelvanwhere are the maptiles stored?00:18
chem|stif you are familiar with shell you may follow my guide to share your sdcard with android and get all those bloat stuff off your device00:18
M4rtinKkelvan: which ones ?00:18
kelvanok i have asmand installed00:19
kelvanand maep00:19
chem|stM4rtinK: you too... use the power of btrfs^^00:19
M4rtinKchem|st: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Gotchas :)00:19
M4rtinKchem|st: nice stuff :)00:20
kelvanso there is a 16gb flash in the device but everything goes boom if it is used?00:20
chem|stok insane people... why would I run btrfs on a server?00:21
chem|stkelvan: no, it goes boom if filled up just like any other system00:21
M4rtinKI would argue the btrfs kind of "boom" is rather more chaotic than more traditional filesystems :)00:23
chem|sthave you tried android 4.x on a 4GB device ever? it is usable for about a day, sometimes even a week but the caches fill up and _boom_00:23
kelvandefine "filled up" thre is more than 2GB space left00:23
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kelvanmore like run out of inode foo00:24
louisdkHow much does an LCD repair for the Jolla Phone cost. A fr00:24
chem|stkelvan: that is something I do not understand - as I thought the metadata is for all subvolumes of that device but it reads like those 4 subvolumes have each 500MB00:25
M4rtinKapparently even a LVM thin pool behaves in interesting ways once it fills up - but you can actually fill it up, unlike btrfs :)00:25
louisdk*A frien of mine dropped his Jolla.00:25
chem|stlouisdk: there is a thread about repaircosts on tjc00:25
M4rtinKchem|st: my simplified theory is that at start there is a single 500 MB metadata chunk and a single 1 GB data chunk00:26
kelvanyeah btrfs df isn't really helpful, it just prints some fantasy numbers00:26
M4rtinKchem|st: so when you say copy 6 GB of big files, btrfs will allocate more and more data blocks until no unallocated space is left00:27
M4rtinKchem|st: then when you delete the big data files, it does not dealocate the data blocks back (there might still be some pieces of "live" data ?)00:27
M4rtinKchem|st: and then when you copy in/create during usage many small files, the initial 500 MB available for metadata fill up00:28
chem|stehrm no00:29
M4rtinKchem|st: and there is nowhere to allocate another metadata chunk and btrfs goes "boom"00:29
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chem|stit might be related to that version that fragmentation + metadatachunks make boom but I doubt it00:29
M4rtinKsure, it might be more complicated00:30
chem|stit sounds like subvolumes have their own metadatachunk00:30
kelvanis there any other filesystem where something like this is possible? "rm: cannot remove `.local/share/maep/OpenCycleMap/12/2234/1420.png': No space left on device"00:30
chem|stso 4 volumes have each 500MB00:30
M4rtinKany idea how big is the chunk size on Jolla ?00:30
chem|stwhere two of those volumes do not need that size of chunks00:30
M4rtinKthe default (IIRC) 500 MB meta & 1 GB data ?00:30
kelvanwell removing files crashes lipstick00:31
chem|stthey started accidentially with 1GB iirc00:31
M4rtinKuh00:31
M4rtinKnot wise on 16 GB total00:31
M4rtinKespecially if subvolumes have one each00:31
chem|st500MB should be fine for the whole partition00:32
chem|stI don't think subvolumes should have one...00:32
M4rtinKit also depends what all counts to metadata00:32
chem|stjust from the numbers adding up it sounds like 2.5GB 4subvolumes + 1 main00:33
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chem|stlet me get my device together before I go to bed and I will check som things on mine00:33
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chem|stI think it might be that no data chunks are left to allocate00:42
chem|stand the massive amount of small files allocates more real bytes than bytes shown00:43
chem|stM4rtinK: kelvan both of you would do good using your sdcard for your android stuff - how-to is on tjc00:44
chem|stand again I feel that it was a good idea to upgrade the tab to 64gb00:45
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M4rtinKyou can never have enough storage :)01:01
M4rtinKwell, I'm not using that much of the Android stuff01:01
M4rtinKOsmAnd was the only one consuming significant amount of space01:02
M4rtinKand I've since then cleared it after FOSDEM (used is as a backup to modRana on N900 for navigation around Brussels)01:03
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Nickleui have an interesting issue -- every time i reboot my Jolla automatically change the ambience03:08
Nickleui kinda like this bug lol03:09
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flux..randomly?-)07:51
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Teguhumm, for some reason jolla fdoes not show contact name in the sms list if the phone number contains only characters10:06
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Nicd-what kind of a phone number is that?10:07
Teguthat's what I wondered as well. but googling shows that it actually is possible10:08
Teguit sends some ads10:08
fluxsome services send me such messages at times10:08
ln-yes, the sender of sms doesn't need to be a phonenumber, it can be text.10:08
Nicd-ah, SMS10:08
fluxI haven't added them to contacts, so it could very well be that the phonebook hasn't taken them into account10:08
Nicd-dunno why you would save that number though10:09
fluxwell, why not?-)10:09
TeguI'd like to mark it as spam but jolla keeps showing the text10:09
fluxan SMS filter would be great. my mobile phone operator sometimes sends me spam. I wonder if it can be implemented without further APIs from Jolla..10:09
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Teguor actually, it shows the contact name until reboot10:15
Teguafter that I should recreate the contact..10:15
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ejjomanheyho10:36
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Mikaelahi10:44
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ikarusmorning10:57
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ikarushrm, does Jolla have a newsletter with new stuff in the store and such ?10:59
ikarusso I can finally stop missing out on TOHs10:59
Mikaelahi11:01
MikaelaI am not sure, but I received email about that Angry Birds Jolla11:01
MikaelaI think it's "news about Jolla" on bottom right corner https://jolla.com/11:01
ikarusI think I am on that list already, hmmm11:01
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sjtoikikarus: there are also http://www.jollausers.com/ and http://jollatides.com/11:10
sjtoika bit more stuff on the subject11:10
sjtoikpersonaly, i prefer the first one11:10
* Mikaela adds those to her rss feed spam channel11:12
MikaelaI have only read JollaSuomi11:13
sjtoikbut that is encrypted in some odd local dialect which nobody speaks in the real world11:14
sjtoikmutta toimii sekin11:14
Mikaela:)11:14
kroAny recent experiences how long orders from shop.jolla.com take? my order just went to "In Picking", but I wonder how long it takes from here to be actually shipped11:15
Mikaelakro: mine was expected to ship last tuesday and yesterday I wrote email and they replied that there was delivery error and resent it11:16
kroMikaela: hum, hope I won't have that "luck" once it actually is shipped11:16
kro(right, what date is today? what could possibly go wrong?!)11:16
Mikaelakro: I already had email about it being shipped weeks ago "and for questions contact Post"11:17
Mikaela2015-02-13T13:17:36+020011:17
Mikaelaoh, it's Friday and 13th11:17
MikaelaFri Feb 13 13:17:53 EET 201511:17
MikaelaISO 8601 doesn't care about names of week days so much11:18
krooh, in this case I'm lucky, took 10 days from order to get into "picking"11:21
Stskeepsif any issues, contact care11:21
kroI'll just wait, even though I have to admin I'm impatient :)11:22
ikarussjtoik: yeah, my secret decoder ring is broken sadly11:30
ikarusAlthough Finnish is one of the few European languages I wouldn't mind adding to my collection11:31
Sceltikarus: once you learn to shout the PERKELE right, there is no turning back.11:34
ikarusScelt: will exposure to enough Finnish metal do the trick for that ?11:37
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Sceltikarus: that is a carefully selected start, indeed11:38
MikaelaI am not sure if I would recommend Finnish11:39
TemeVyeah, Finnish is quite obsolete language. It is only used in Finland and in here you'll do fine with English11:41
entilfinnish is the lisp of spoken languages11:41
entilyou learn it because it blows your mind and opens you to new ways of thinking11:42
Mikaelathe only sane reason that I have heard yet is sane pronouns11:42
ln-TemeV: you are obviously trolling, but nevertheless, Finnish is also used in Sweden and Russia, at least.11:43
entilnice composability, and the lack of prepositions is interesting11:43
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Mikaelaminä sinä hän me te he (se)11:43
MikaelaI you he/she/they you (plural), they, it11:43
Mikaelaand no one uses hän, it's always "se" about everyone11:43
Mikaelahmm, why did I put se to brackets while I inteded to put hän into brackets…11:44
entilI'd actually say that the 3rd person neutrality is a bug that should be fixed... not because of gender chauvinism but because it makes writing about people with different genders hard11:44
TemeVln-: of course there is minorities in neighbouring countries, but doesn't make it any more useful language11:45
entilbut prepositions... you see those lists online of words in finnish and how hard they are, and you go "lol @ .fi"11:45
entilbut then you realize how limiting the english prepositions actually are and how ridiculously difficult it is for finns to pick them up11:45
ln-TemeV: english is missing some essential words that finnish has.11:46
TemeVsure, and the other way around also11:46
entilso sure, you can "get by" with english here because everyone "knows" english, as long as you put up with bad pronounciation, transferred syntax and misplaced prepositions ;P11:47
MikaelaI would see 3rd person being gendered being issue11:47
Mikaelaand I cannot think of any case that I have encountered in Finnish while not having gendered third person has been issue11:47
TemeVlack of gender neutral 3rd person pronoun is annouying in most languages11:47
entilMikaela: write a sex scene in english and in finnish11:48
entilit's not an insurmountable issue, but you'll see the difficulty11:48
MikaelaI am not interested in sex or writing about it11:48
entilthe second-hardest is any longer interaction11:48
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entilwho did what to whom; in finnish you basically resort to repeating names and stuff like that instead of going he/she11:49
Mikaelado I understand correctly that sex scenes are more important to you than people being able to be themselves, either trans, or entirely out the binary without being always anxious about being gendered?11:50
Mikaelathere is also issue with IRC, "most of people at IRC are male, females don't exist at IRC, my IRC is gender neutral, you aren't going to gender it etc.".11:50
ln-Mikaela: the lack of gendered 3rd person is mostly and exclusively a problem when directly translating some foreign language movie dialogue where they play with genders... i.e. "he escaped through the window - how do you know the thief was a man?"11:50
Mikaelain this case I would simply take singular they11:51
entilMikaela: whoah, no idea where you're coming from now, I just picked the hardest challenge as an example here :D11:51
entilthis has nothing to do with identities per se, it's a linguistic challenge11:52
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MikaelaI am asexual if that is what you are wondering11:52
entilok11:52
joonahoientil: that can't be an issue11:53
joonahoiyou'll encounter the same problems when writing a group sex / gay sex scene :D11:53
entilhttps://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg11:53
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Scelthaha11:54
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ln-entil: nice that someone has re-captured that one from the new blu-ray release, it's better than the old one.11:54
entilabsolutely11:55
Sceltthis was a nice chat11:56
Sceltikarus skipped a launch of a new TOH and we ended up talking about asexuals, gay sex and blu-rays11:57
Mikaela:D11:58
joonahoibolting that together, blu-ray recording of asexual gay sex would be morally questionable. rape scene i think.12:00
joonahoibtw, how can you tell it's friday?12:00
joonahoii'll get my coat12:01
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virtuald[Mbt612:20
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kroFYI, there's a new ("valentine day") discount for 199 Jolla phones out there - if anybody missed the fosdem code and hasn't got the mail yet13:04
Nicd-yeah, I got the email three times :D13:05
Nicd-once to my jolla account's email, second to my jolla account's previous email, third to my tablet campaign email13:05
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Sfiet_Konstantingeez13:10
Sfiet_Konstantinso much marketing13:10
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ejjomanmuch email. very marketing. wow.13:12
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sebsebsebka13:19
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sebsebsebkro: fosdem code?13:20
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krosebsebseb: there was a special discount code announced at fosdem (fosdem.org), that was valid from feb 1-8th roughly that had the same effect (-50)13:23
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sebsebsebkro: oh well already got one since the tablet crowd funding13:24
kroyep, if you want/need a tablet that one is better value... "unfortunately" I don't see any need to have a tablet for me :)13:24
sebsebsebkro: which one is better value?13:26
krosebsebseb: tablet + phone bundle13:27
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sebsebsebkro: the fosdem one or the crowd funding perk that there was?13:27
krosebsebseb: the crowdfunding combo perk (fosdem code was phone-only)13:28
sebsebsebshould be getting my Jolla tablet in May to since yes I did the crowd fundinng13:29
sebsebsebkro: I am not so keen on tablets myself since being a touch tpeist but why dont you want one?13:30
coderusPatch: add Sneak Peak to Display settings https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/patch-add-sneak-peak-display-settings13:31
krosebsebseb: I need a notebook with a real keyboard, that I can throw around, connect to a beamer, maybe hardware-upgrade, install with whatever system I like (and I like bleeding edges), ...13:34
anandrkriscoderus: https://together.jolla.com/question/937/glance-screen/ this?13:35
coderusanandrkris: yes13:35
anandrkrisCoderus: cool13:36
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anandrkriscoderus: https://together.jolla.com/question/73023/native-app-request-daily-comic-strip-viewer-xkcd-chetc/13:36
anandrkrisHave a look at this...see if this interests you...someone already showed interest although looks like may take some time :)13:37
coderusnot reading xkcd :)13:38
kroanandrkris: sounds more like a job for a RSS-Reader13:38
anandrkrisCoderus: hmm...no comics at all?13:38
kro(don't have my Jolla yet, but on the N9 the inbuilt RSS-Reader can do that)13:38
coderusanandrkris: yep13:38
Sfiet_Konstantincoderus: please, no xkcd ?13:38
anandrkriskro: probably should check tidings13:38
coderusSfiet_Konstantin: yep13:39
anandrkrislet me check if rss feed can handle13:40
kroanandrkris: also the tt-rss client if you have (access to) a tt-rss server does display cartoons inline... there's a plugin for dilbert for example to crawl the strip and display it inline as well (although I think it stopped working recently)13:40
anandrkriskro: will check itn out thanks...13:41
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Guest50569hello14:55
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aloumpehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8921614:55
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aloumpewhich path i drop the roms on my phone14:55
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Nicd-isn't it an rpm?14:56
aloumpeyes14:56
aloumpebou game roms?14:56
aloumpebut14:56
Nicd-don't know, ask in that thread?14:57
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Nicd-but it says on the first page you run `mupen64plus /path/to/rom`14:57
Nicd-so you can put them anywhere you like14:57
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aloumpeok i try14:59
aloumpety14:59
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aloumpeso i type mupen64plus/downloads/to/mariokart64.n64 ?15:09
Nicd-no15:10
Nicd-where is your rom file?15:10
aloumpei put the roms on downloads15:10
Nicd-so it would be mupen64plus ~/Downloads/mariokart64.n6415:11
Nicd-note the space15:11
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aloumpewith ~15:11
Nicd-yes15:12
ahjolinnaLinus Torvalds - VOTE for the next kernel number  https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/jmtzzLiiejc15:12
Nicd-or you can type mupen64plus /home/nemo/Downloads/mariokart64.n6415:12
Nicd-if you think that is easier15:12
aloumpeerror could not open re rom15:17
aloumpei rename the roms on15:17
aloumpemk.n6415:17
Nicd-did you type correctly?15:17
aloumpeits that the prob?15:18
Nicd-you should give the correct name of course15:18
aloumpei think its just the .n6415:18
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ejjomanplease vote for https://together.jolla.com/question/81336/request-limit-max-characterslines-of-question-title-in-askbot/15:20
aloumpeerror could no open rom file forreading15:25
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Yanielno early access update this week :(15:51
Mikaela:(15:52
SceltAard: you honey badget!15:52
Sceltbadger15:52
Sceltgadget, inspector15:52
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MikaelaI got pink TOH! :D16:09
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Mikaelanicer than popey red and the sounds are nice (some popey red ones were horrible) :)16:16
Yanielit seems the sounds are inversely proportional to looks16:21
MikaelaI am not sure what you mean16:23
MikaelaPopey red alarm clock was also somewhat scary16:23
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Yanielkeira black looks nice but I find the soundscape terrible16:24
Mikaelaghost music?16:25
Yanieland the ones that have nicer sounds tend to look borin :D16:25
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Morpog_PCYaniel, keira black sounds were awesome :D16:33
Morpog_PCjust copy the sounds over and you can use them in any ambiance16:33
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tadzikeh, pff18:48
tadziktried making an app that uses an Sqlite database, gives me "Out of memory" when trying to open it18:49
tadzikthat's better than few months ago, when it gave no errors and just didn't work :P18:49
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tadzikI don't see how a 40K sqlite DB would cause OOM in Qt18:58
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tadzikoh, of course. In QtSqlish, "out of memory" means "the file is readonly for me, but I wanted it readwrite"19:11
tadziktruly a miracle of modern technology19:11
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klopsi-u3hehe19:42
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tadzik*dum dum dum* coming from the authors of DogeNow, something useful this time: http://imgur.com/a/MCnim (if you play D&D at least)21:50
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klopsi-u3heh nice21:56
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